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sage & onion wrote:Interesting, however in my expereince here the lower paid workers are completely taken advantage of their higher paid bosses, who are of the same nationality by the way.

The other interesting thing is, if you go to India, Pakistan, Philipines, Thailand, Bangladesh, Nepal to recruit labour, the lines are endless, so got to be something good about the place.

Yes, in my experience as well there are SOME instances of a person taking advantage of his compatriot subordinate (that is if the former ever gets to a high position). I think it's the same human nature of wanting to be more powerful than another- or maybe it got in their heads that that practice is acceptable here.

sage & onion wrote:It's actually something I have believed in all my life, and I strive to treat everyone as an equal, unfortunately many here don't, but hey thats up to them, I will fight my own personal fight and feel good in myself.

The temptation to feel and display our superiority to other race(s) we feel our inferior to us, is certainly a difficult thing to do. Hats off to you.

easternjewel wrote:
typical Arab response. dont like leave blah blah.. its funny how other non - arabs answer the same way in other posts, yet you say it is a typical arab response...what about the europeans that answer that way...what is it considered then? Racism is everywhere, so just be a little nice... & you did not however answer the Question. why do Arab people see subconti as lower class? that was a question in my class, not from the OP, so I do not think I need to answer the question since I do not personally hold that opinion.
I love this country & in many cases I defend it. I also am not ashamed to point out the draw backs in my country (population, corruption etc) neither am I...you would have noticed that I did not deny anything
No one here said that people from subcont working here mainly as the labour class are skilled* but think about it. All the highclass* arabs would have to substitute their place, of building houses (in extreme UAE climate, lets not even get to the wages issue & exploitation) cleaning toilets roads & so on if one day all this people did leave. there are arabs who do these jobs..that are local as well. these jobs are not only done by indians and pakistanis as most believe.
It is sad how you guys can talk when you know some of these people do not have an option to leave this place.. and even if they did, other cheap labour from the subcont could be replaced easily. I think its funny how you think it is only the labour working class is talking about racism...most of those posting on this board are high class individuals, yet they deal with racisim as well...so my statement wasn't to only those of lower class or low wage jobs.

It is not right to justify any wrong action by saying it happens everywhere. The solution would be to change the attitudes of people. No, it isn't and you are right. But it is also not right to act as though these things only happen here and make the issue greater than it really is.

I need to plagerize S&O's signature...(aswell)

Also, I feel if you live in a country and do your best to make a good life for your family and yourself, try to have as many good experiences as you can...but find that you cannot, then pack up and move to somewhere where you can...and that is not something that people cannot do...it is quite easy to move.

aquarian wrote:LOL

If i had hit that man, then there would be no difference between him and me... may be one day those people will understand that they were wrong.

i believe that egyptian couple were really mentally disturbed of their lives. so they took out their wrath on us.

if yelling at us helped them calm down, then i'm glad i had been a use of help to them.

Aquarian, what you've just written are words from sophisticated, civilized and educated person. Kudos! So proud of you.

To cheer you up, i have one colleague who is a bengali and i have to admit i will missed him if he leaves the company. He can't speak english well and sometimes i find it hard to understand him, because of our language barriers, but i find him valuable for the team. He's so hardworking, honest and very respectful. He don't earn much and yet he don't have qualms and manage to stay happy & always cheering us up here at the office.

What you've just experienced happens everywhere and sadly asians are really the target of their frustrations. Maybe those couple are worried that they can't pay their rents and settle their bills, and their landlords are running after them.

I've witnessed also in one of the malls, non-asian couple yelling at bangali staff for 2 dirhams because the candy machine, which is supposedly automatic isn't working. And it isn't the fault of bangali person that the candy machine isn't working, he don't own the machine. Would you believe this, they keep on yelling to the person Harami and even threatened to call the police I just pulled out 5dhs from my pocket and give to the couple...how shameful they accepted the money.

Aquarian... cheer up dear!

sage & onion wrote:

yujinn wrote:But...
In the US, take away a particular race and the country will still survive. Here, take away a particular race- let's see how the country can handle that.
Racism here is so defined unlike that in other countries such as the US.
I don't know who will continue buldling those buildings if the indians and pakistanis leave.
This of course is only my observation.

And regarding why not leave this country, you know the answer to that question. These people are desperate, you know that. And you also know that leaving would not be a choice because of their desperation. And what do humans usually do to their desperate brothers? They take advantage of them, and then ask the same 'why not leave' question to them.

Interesting, however in my expereince here the lower paid workers are completely taken advantage of their higher paid bosses, who are of the same nationality by the way.

The other interesting thing is, if you go to India, Pakistan, Philipines, Thailand, Bangladesh, Nepal to recruit labour, the lines are endless, so got to be something good about the place.

Like sage said...many cases it is not racisim..its is bigotry.

Regarding the jobs, it is not only Indians or Pakistanis doing these low paid jobs mind you...there are other nationalities including arabs and locals as well.

I am an arab, I deal with racism here. I am a local, I deal with racisim here. You think locals dont have to deal with that? Do you know how people see us? How they look at us? We have to deal being punished by others because they automatically judge us as being racist. Isn't that just as bad?

yujinn wrote:

sage & onion wrote:You are right Bushra, Racism is all over the world, and to be honest I have found that the USA is the worst for this. Here in UAE, you are correct, if we don't like it we have a choice.

^ yes Sage, you have a choice, but for the desparate ones don't. So asking them "why not leave?" is also telling them "Let's see leave! I know you can't because you'll starve, so shut up and bear with the racism!"

The desperate ones dont have a choice? I was living in the states by myself paying my tuition, my apartment fees, medical fees, insurance...I would go sometimes a week or two without eating something because I barely had any money left over. I was a full time student and worked 4 jobs....I probably got 2 hours of sleep in a week...but it came to the point where I couldn't stand being treated like a piece of shit, where i was sick of being labeled a terrorist, where i became so irritated with the rules that the companies i worked for had (you think that there is equal oppurtunity or equal employment there, you are crazy, your race-heritage-nationality is a huge factor) that i bought the first ticket i could afford to Dubai and came here and found a job. My first job i was paid 2,000 AED per month... that included for my living expenses and traveling expenses..so you know what I did, I found myself a better paying job.

People have choices all the time regardless of who they may be or how much they make. They are surrounded by choices. You just have to be willing to take a risk sometimes.

bushra21 wrote:

easternjewel wrote:
typical Arab response. dont like leave blah blah.. its funny how other non - arabs answer the same way in other posts, yet you say it is a typical arab response...what about the europeans that answer that way...what is it considered then? Racism is everywhere, so just be a little nice... & you did not however answer the Question. why do Arab people see subconti as lower class? that was a question in my class, not from the OP, so I do not think I need to answer the question since I do not personally hold that opinion.
I love this country & in many cases I defend it. I also am not ashamed to point out the draw backs in my country (population, corruption etc) neither am I...you would have noticed that I did not deny anything
No one here said that people from subcont working here mainly as the labour class are skilled* but think about it. All the highclass* arabs would have to substitute their place, of building houses (in extreme UAE climate, lets not even get to the wages issue & exploitation) cleaning toilets roads & so on if one day all this people did leave. there are arabs who do these jobs..that are local as well. these jobs are not only done by indians and pakistanis as most believe.
It is sad how you guys can talk when you know some of these people do not have an option to leave this place.. and even if they did, other cheap labour from the subcont could be replaced easily. I think its funny how you think it is only the labour working class is talking about racism...most of those posting on this board are high class individuals, yet they deal with racisim as well...so my statement wasn't to only those of lower class or low wage jobs.

It is not right to justify any wrong action by saying it happens everywhere. The solution would be to change the attitudes of people. No, it isn't and you are right. But it is also not right to act as though these things only happen here and make the issue greater than it really is.

I need to plagerize S&O's signature...(aswell)

Also, I feel if you live in a country and do your best to make a good life for your family and yourself, try to have as many good experiences as you can...but find that you cannot, then pack up and move to somewhere where you can...and that is not something that people cannot do...it is quite easy to move.

thank you for the reds.
If you do not have those opinions, good for you, but spread the word, dont defend the actions of the wrong.
I do know some Locals who work very hard. but I am sorry, Ive never seen a local Janitor or an officeboy. and talking about labourer is just easier in terms to elaborate on the fact how important they are for the development of this country.
Also again, it still remains wrong to let go issues by saying it happens everywhere. Racism is greater than most of you think it is.

I am appauled at the way people view south asians in this country, and especially the arabs. If anything any arab should look up to south asian, look at India a young country of around 50 years yet have developed so quickly and put itself as a superpower when it comes to the knolwedge economy of today. While the Arab countries still dwell in being a consuming hole producing nothing of value to the world.

So if you are an Arab and think lowly of a south Asian the next time, think about how south asia has the scientific know how to have produced an atomic bomb, has been able to capture a majority of the world IT business, and is on the way to being a great economy. While the oil rich arab countries are just spending there resources away on developing nothing but building the talles, biggest and most messed up shit instead of investing in there people and having a long term startegey.

With that in mind, i will give the indian office helper tons more of respect than the arab guy racing in his lamborgini.

easternjewel wrote:
thank you for the reds.
If you do not have those opinions, good for you, but spread the word, dont defend the actions of the wrong.
I do know some Locals who work very hard. but I am sorry, Ive never seen a local Janitor or an officeboy. and talking about labourer is just easier in terms to elaborate on the fact how important they are for the development of this country.
Also again, it still remains wrong to let go issues by saying it happens everywhere. Racism is greater than most of you think it is.

I dont defend anyone who is wrong. I am a very blunt person and I will say what is on my mind...regardless of whom it is. I spoke up in my class and stated my opinion when some would start to speak ill of them. Mind you, I go to AUS -- so there are many expats there, and they too held the same opinion as some of the locals. And not arab expats, but western expats. What I found amusing is that even one individual who was from the subcontinet region said that he was ashamed of his people, on how some of them act.

What I said, so you do not misunderstand me is that we shouldn't look down on them or view them as lower than us. They are hard workers, and many of them are educated holding at the very least a Masters degree. India is one of the top countries in turning out educated individuals, so we have no right to look down on them. Many of them built this country and aided in making it what is today. They took care of us as nannies, supply us jobs as labourers (they build the buildings after all), work with us as co-workers and employees. That is what I said. I dont look down at people because of their race, if I look down at a person, it is because of their actions; not their skin colour or nationality.

Just becuase you do not see them does not mean that they are not there. Shouldn't a well - rounded invididual such as yourself know this fact all ready?

Who says that we are dismissing the issue because we bring up the point it occurs everywhere? If you want to tackle an issue, you have to look at it from all points of view...not just one.

Also, I think that most can say that they understand how great this issue is, because most have been subjected to it at one point or another. I basically grew up dealing with it...so I dont think its really right on your part to tell us that we are thinking in an incorrect manner; almost seems as though you are trying to say because you are from the subcontinent you have a better understanding of what racisim is.

We must also consider the fact that Dubai is relatively new in the developed countries list- mostly thanks to the oil and foreigners, so we should not be surprised if we encounter rude old locals. They probably still can't grasp the fact that they are now sharing their country with other peoples now. Poor them...
I just hope nowadays they teach the young ones in schools about these issues, teach them the right attitudes and how to deal with people in a civilized way. Teach them hard.
As with most everything else, crude things needs to be polished to shine.

I just got around to reading this thread, the comments indicate there is hope for the future , there is racism here, heck there is a lot of racism even on this forum, hopefully we can all look internally to make positive changes.


I have a dream ..

MaaaD wrote:I am appauled at the way people view south asians in this country, and especially the arabs. If anything any arab should look up to south asian, look at India a young country of around 50 years yet have developed so quickly and put itself as a superpower when it comes to the knolwedge economy of today. While the Arab countries still dwell in being a consuming hole producing nothing of value to the world.

So if you are an Arab and think lowly of a south Asian the next time, think about how south asia has the scientific know how to have produced an atomic bomb, has been able to capture a majority of the world IT business, and is on the way to being a great economy. While the oil rich arab countries are just spending there resources away on developing nothing but building the talles, biggest and most messed up shit instead of investing in there people and having a long term startegey.

With that in mind, i will give the indian office helper tons more of respect than the arab guy racing in his lamborgini.

^^^ This is what i like abt this place.. . you can find lot of good people around hats off to u maaad..

EJ I completely agree with your posts... quality...
and for those who said .. if u dont like it in here leave this place.. isnt it the perfect example of bigotry..

and i guess the point in here is to make a better society....not in comparing with countries where the condition is much worse..

St.Lucifer wrote:
and for those who said .. if u dont like it in here leave this place.. isnt it the perfect example of bigotry..
.

also, if you feel you cannot make it in the country you are in, then why stay?

please explain how that is a perfect example of bigotry...

for

"also, if you feel you cannot make it in the country you are in, then why stay"
is a logical question but
"If u dont like it in here, leave. go back to your country n try n develop your place.. blah blah blah."

are caustic remarks with vehement dislike towards accepting others views and ideas

and Bigot - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

and note that i made it as a generic remark. y do u get upset dear.

St.Lucifer wrote:for

"also, if you feel you cannot make it in the country you are in, then why stay"
is a logical question but
"If u dont like it in here, leave. go back to your country n try n develop your place.. blah blah blah."

are caustic remarks with vehement dislike towards accepting others views and ideas

and Bigot - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

and note that i made it as a generic remark. y do u get upset dear.

please do not misquote me :

bushra21 wrote:Also, those who do hold those feelings make it a point to say that this country would be nothing if it weren't for 'their' people... so why not leave and better your own country if 'your' people are so skilled?

bushra21 wrote:Also, I feel if you live in a country and do your best to make a good life for your family and yourself, try to have as many good experiences as you can...but find that you cannot, then pack up and move to somewhere where you can...and that is not something that people cannot do...it is quite easy to move.

bushra21 wrote:I chose the US because I lived there and worked there. So I feel I can say that, because I have seen these kinds of things happen there... like I said, it doesnt matter where you live, racisim is everywhere. so suck it up and keep going; if you dont like it -- then go do what you want, make your country a better place rather than help a racist country.

I was making a point that those who speak out about being subjected to unusual amounts/occurences of racisim usually add to their argument that this country would be nothing without them. my point was if they were that talented and skilled, why not return to their country and build it as they built this one. why stay and deal with these conditions if they are so horrid.


like i said, people have chances to better their lives. its just some are not willing to take the risk that comes with it.

EDIT: hehehe, i just realized that i use the word also a lot...it seems a bit annoying now that i am reading it...i need a better word. lol

Oh racism BIG endless issue... I'm not a racist

yorky500 wrote:

zam wrote:aquarian just curious, what is your nationality?

You obviously do not read what has been written in the previous posts!

I was trying to sound very racist! (clever excuse eihhh?) hehehe

Those poor laborers.. Why they don't leave? Probably because 1. they earn more here and apparently they'd rather be treated badly and earn rather than starve in their own country because of lack of jobs there, or 2. they really wanted to leave but their employers really know how to keep their slaves.

On going back home to contribute in their own country's progress since they have the skills to do so, easier said than done. There are such things as unemployment, corrupt governments, etc.
I've known doctors from my country who'd rather work as nurses in the US. I don't need to explain why.

"Also, I feel if you live in a country and do your best to make a good life for your family and yourself, try to have as many good experiences as you can...but find that you cannot, then pack up and move to somewhere where you can...and that is not something that people cannot do...it is quite easy to move."

likewise,I feel a lot of people live in this country and do thier best to make a good life for their family n themselves, try to have as many good experiences as they can.. but sometimes find they cannnot, then packing up and moving to somewhere where they can is not the solution.. and this not something that many people can do .. it isnt quite easy to move.

people always want betterment.. y do u think all the anti racists movements and organizations came up? we need a progressive society.

likewise, as well, beside.. are the suggested alternatives

I don't understand some of the posters here... yet they defend their country and they say we don't...

anyways, i'm not here to pass judgements...

i've been born and living in this country for almost 22 years... i've never seen a local or an arab working as a labour...

we will not be talking about USA or what ever... coz we're living and talking about UAE!

by the way, i don't have any kind of personal grudge against arab nations, believe me if i had, i'd beat the crap out of every last one of them, but that's not what a muslim should do... yes i'm strict in religious matters... i'm always happy that i have the privilege to live in such a beautiful country... that's coz our prophet was from an arab nation, and besides... one of our prophet's message was... he prohibit fighting with everyone unless it was a war. he also said everyone is equal before ALLAH.

the other day, i went to the mosque to pray... i stood with an arab old man... so when the imaam finished iqamah, he says to join your feet and stand peoperly. that old man moved his foot away from mine... i tried twice, he seemed repeated. I left him the way he was. altough, on the friday prayer, the imaam read "everyone is equal in the prayer house and before ALLAH." i'm sure that man was present in the mosque. but still...

i know racism is ever where, but im talking about the present where im living. this country once was not like this.

and it is not only me... you can answer to my questions by saying "why not leav?" but what are you gonna do when several more people ask you this?

bushra says, she deals with racism here... sorry, no offence... but its what you do, what you get!
the person who you find racist, maybe some arab did something similar to him, so he's avenging... bcoz you're an arab. but what that person did was absolutely wrong. i admit, racism is 100% wrong. weather it's done by an expat or a local, it'll stay wrong.

i found one of the poster saying something like... "what you said to the arab nation is itself racism, now what does that make you?"

I already apologized for such inconvinient words. Im sorry, i took it that way. I support UAE as much as i support my home country. I like the arab language, dress and their tradition... but almost every sub continental expats find arabs to be racist. WHY? bcoz of their image. they spoilt their image doing racism. this goes for every country found with such racism issues.

by the way, thanx for sharing your point of views. it feels alive to read your postings.

bushra,

I think you're generalizing way too much, that's a reason why your argument is somewhat unconvincing. Don't you think many expats would prefer to stay in their own country and improve it locally if they could only be able to earn a decent living there? Also sending money back home does contribute to their home country; if you look at the statistics of countries that have a large number of remittances flowing in, you can see that many migrant workers not only improve the lives of their families and communities with that money that they're sending, but one can argue that they also improve their country's economy.

Though there might be many temporary workers who hate being in this country there are many who don't. What of the S. Asians who were born in Dubai and love Dubai and who see it as their only home, but who still experience racism and complain about it. Would you be OK with telling them: "if you don't like it here, leave"?

What is racism anyway?

It is my opinion that those who say "I am not a racist" probably are [provided I knew what it is]. We are all, I suspect, racist (to different degrees).

oh snap!
Yeah I definitely have racists tendencies...I should try to avoid posting on the normal threads.

aquarian wrote:bushra says, she deals with racism here... sorry, no offence... but its what you do, what you get!

and what have I done exactly? are you saying that I am a racist or that I have carried out the actions of one who is a racist?

That sounds like a pretty racist comment if you ask me. Judging me before you even know me, saying those things about me simply because i am an arab...


i am all for equality between people, and like i said earlier, i dont care what language you speak, what colour your skin is, where you are from...if you are a good, decent, respectable person -- who am i to judge you, i never look down at anyone who carries themselves with dignity.

About the whole situation in the mosque...I dont like people being that close to me when I pray...actually, I dont like people being that close to me ever. It is a personal preference...not a racial preference.

The lady and man yelling at you for no reason. If it really was for no reason, than that was wrong on their part. No one has the right to do that -- no matter who they may be.

The paying of the bill issue, did you think that maybe that guy that came in after you had a plan with them already, or had spoken to them before about this issue and that is why it is all right.



St. Lucifer,

It is hard to start over, or move, or change something in your life. But if you are not content with the way you are living, then that is what needs to be done. A change needs to take place. I did it, all on my own -- and I continue to do it on my own. You need to take risks in life...especially if you want to lead a better, happier life.

Freza,

You make a good point. But I have no problem telling a person that if they are not content with their lifestyle here, regardless of who they may be or where they originally come from, and feel that they cannot live the life they want, then to go and find somewhere that they can be happy.

I have a lot of respect for people who leave their home country behind and go to better their lives, I know how hard that can be. But at the same time, what I do not understand is, why they feel the need to belittle that country that is offering them that very thing. Nothing in life comes easy, people are not perfect, and wherever you go you will have problems.

Concord wrote:What is racism anyway?

It is my opinion that those who say "I am not a racist" probably are [provided I knew what it is]. We are all, I suspect, racist (to different degrees).

Agreed. Everyone has racist tendencies...some are just more noticeable than others.

bushra,

According to what you've stated, shouldn't your priorities revolve around improving and contributing to your country's well being? Isn't exposing the damaging effects of racism a good way of improving your country?

I don't think it's your duty to be telling people that they should go elsewhere to go find happiness. (But if doing so makes you happy... oh well). Maybe it's your sense of over-abundant entitlement that's making you not have a problem with telling people to go be happy somewhere else?

Are your eyes weak or you didn't quote the full message on purpose bushra?

bushra says, she deals with racism here... sorry, no offence... but its what you do, what you get! (may be other arabs did something, but that man avenged you bcoz you're an arab too. he thought you're the same.)
the person who you find racist, maybe some arab did something similar to him, so he's avenging... bcoz you're an arab.

I'm not accusing you of carrying out any racial act. it's you yourself saying that.

as of the mosque matter... i didn't shove my self into that old man... just spread my feet to touch the vary end of my last toe.

next time read and understand the full sentences.

aquarian wrote:Are your eyes weak or you didn't quote the full message on purpose bushra?

bushra says, she deals with racism here... sorry, no offence... but its what you do, what you get! (may be other arabs did something, but that man avenged you bcoz you're an arab too. he thought you're the same.)
the person who you find racist, maybe some arab did something similar to him, so he's avenging... bcoz you're an arab.

I'm not accusing you of carrying out any racial act. it's you yourself saying that.

as of the mosque matter... i didn't shove my self into that old man... just spread my feet to touch the vary end of my last toe.

next time read and understand the full sentences.

so when i get treated the same you say you are treated by arabs -- it is not because they are racist, but because they are angry at someone who is from my race...well, couldnt the same be said in your case?




also, i never said you shoved yourself into the old man. like i said, me personally, i do not like anyone touching met at all, especially if i do not know them. if i do, then it depends on certain other factors..but in general i cannot stand to have anyone touch me or even be in close proximity to me.


i read what you wrote, just wanted to see how you would explain it.

bushra21 wrote:and what have I done exactly? are you saying that I am a racist or that I have carried out the actions of one who is a racist?

That sounds like a pretty racist comment if you ask me. Judging me before you even know me, saying those things about me simply because i am an arab...

That would be being prejudice not racist.

I am an arab, I deal with racism here. I am a local, I deal with racisim here. You think locals dont have to deal with that? Do you know how people see us? How they look at us? We have to deal being punished by others because they automatically judge us as being racist. Isn't that just as bad?

By 'racism' do you mean resent?

Justified resentment is not a form of racism.

If you're not talking about resentment please explain how rich people who are treated with contempt and racism in your society when you are the ones who control the wealth and power?

where i became so irritated with the rules that the companies i worked for had

How many companies did you work for at fifteen?

you think that there is equal oppurtunity or equal employment there, you are crazy, your race-heritage-nationality is a huge factor

Yes. If you were discriminated against you should have filed a lawsuit.

Don't worry, I'm sure you can take it out on your three full time maids..

freza wrote:bushra,

According to what you've stated, shouldn't your priorities revolve around improving and contributing to your country's well being? Isn't exposing the damaging effects of racism a good way of improving your country?

I don't think it's your duty to be telling people that they should go elsewhere to go find happiness. (But if doing so makes you happy... oh well). Maybe it's your sense of over-abundant entitlement that's making you not have a problem with telling people to go be happy somewhere else?

I never said that racisim never occured here. I never said it wasnt a problem. I never said that it was right...so how am I stopping anyone. I share my opinions just as everyone else on this issue..that is all.

You are right, it isn't my duty to tell people to leave to be happy. But, if someone isn't happy here then why stay somewhere that has that effect on them. But just as you have the right to say what you feel, I believe I hold that same right as well.

I like how you feel you can express your opinions, but when someone doesn't agree with yours you will either openly belittle them or indirectly do so.