Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

Do you think it is wrong to be proud of being Palestinian, Lebanese, Irish or Arab etc?

Why would there be anything wrong in being proud of where you come from? It is a great thing! I think it is very sad to see people lose their cultures and conform to what may be the dominant culture. Never forget your roots...they define who you are...

Another interesting discussion that may be brought out of this can be with being Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi...etc in Dubai. With a lot of people having negative perceptions about those groups, it may be so that they may start to feel ashamed that of what they are. I am definetely not saying everyone is like this, but there are many people who are racist in Dubai. I wonder how it actually affects the people.
For example, I am Pakistani and I don't even look it at all. I have always been thought of as Lebanese, Kuwaiti, Iranian, Spanish, Greek...actually everything BUT Pakistani lol. When I was studying abroad for a semester in Dubai I often found that when I was seen as Arab I was treated verrrrrrrry nicely. When I would go with my Pakistani friends, I often saw a difference in treatment towards them (not me though). Not anything mean or offensive, but getting seated last when we were ahead of so many people or not being able to get into certain clubs.....It was very subtle.
I thought this dynamic was very interesting. If they knew I was Pakistani even though I don't look it...I wonder if the treatment would change.
I just think no matter what people should be proud of where they came from, and should by no means think they shouldn't! Any thoughts? Sorry if I regressed too much from the subject.

Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

Islam does not forbid a Muslim to love his homeland or the country in which he lives or grew up. What is reprehensible is basing one’s feelings of loyalty and disavowal on that, and loving and hating on that basis. A person who belongs to the same country as you is not closer to you than a Muslim from another land, and the reason for your loving or hating others should not be whether or not they come from the same country as you. Rather loyalty and disavowal, or love and hatred, should all be based on Islam and piety.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to love Makkah because it was the most beloved land to Allaah, but he did not love the kaafirs who lived there, rather he fought them because they fought against Islam and killed Muslims. Neither he nor his companions ever gave precedence to their love of Makkah over the laws of Allaah, so when Allaah forbade those who had migrated from Makkah to go back to it, except for Hajj and three days after it, they adhered to that and did not stay there for longer than that period. Their love for Makkah did not make them disobey Allaah, let alone do anything that was worse than that.

Today you see that tribalism / Nationalism and devotion to one's country has gone to such extremes that places of shirk are venerated just because they are in one’s country; the flag is venerated because it represents the country, so the people stand and salute it with a reverence that is absent in their prayers when they stand before their Lord.

noni wrote:Why would there be anything wrong in being proud of where you come from? It is a great thing! I think it is very sad to see people lose their cultures and conform to what may be the dominant culture. Never forget your roots...they define who you are...

Another interesting discussion that may be brought out of this can be with being Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi...etc in Dubai. With a lot of people having negative perceptions about those groups, it may be so that they may start to feel ashamed that of what they are. I am definetely not saying everyone is like this, but there are many people who are racist in Dubai. I wonder how it actually affects the people.
For example, I am Pakistani and I don't even look it at all. I have always been thought of as Lebanese, Kuwaiti, Iranian, Spanish, Greek...actually everything BUT Pakistani lol. When I was studying abroad for a semester in Dubai I often found that when I was seen as Arab I was treated verrrrrrrry nicely. When I would go with my Pakistani friends, I often saw a difference in treatment towards them (not me though). Not anything mean or offensive, but getting seated last when we were ahead of so many people or not being able to get into certain clubs.....It was very subtle.
I thought this dynamic was very interesting. If they knew I was Pakistani even though I don't look it...I wonder if the treatment would change.
I just think no matter what people should be proud of where they came from, and should by no means think they shouldn't! Any thoughts? Sorry if I regressed too much from the subject.

I'm sorry, I didn't say people should lose their culture when they arrive at a new country. I mean people who are proud of being born a certain ethnicity. For example if I were Irish, would it be wrong of me to be proud of being Irish? I didn't do anything to be proud, I'm just proud that my ancestors came from Ireland.

Well.....with your Irish example...if you feel that your heritage has shaped you as person, defined certain parts of you, kept strongholds within your family, made you feel like you have a sense of belonging and history within the Irish community...then of course you should feel proud. There is nothing wrong with that....even if you didn't die in the name of the Irish leprechauns doesn't mean you shouldn't be proud of where you came from.

Chocoholic wrote:Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

I think it is always a little depressing to find people proud of (or, for that matter, ashamed of) things that they had nothing to do with.

I might be proud of something I did or ashamed of something I did...but how can I possibly feel that way about things other people did?

My only connection with the United States is that I was born here...and we don't get a choice in where we are born.

I cannot be proud of a book that someone else wrote, can I?

So how can I be proud of a nation that other people created?

Or a nationality that was (like all nationalities) invented by other people?

It was not German culture's "philosophic greatness" that wrote Das Kapital...it was one guy who did it and who is the only one entitled to be proud of what he did.

I think the urge to be proud of the ethnic/cultural/national group that you happened (by sheer chance!) to be born in is, at least in part, a consequence of not having done anything to be proud of yourself.

There is nothing wrong with feeling proud of one's ethnicity and/or country. I have an issue with some aspects of nationalism though, I think it can turn to fanatical patrotism very easily. It can blind many people of the truth and of the injustice that their own countries committ. Look at the US and Israel for example, patrotism is so entreanched in soceity that questioning the government is seen as betrayal.

Chocoholic wrote:Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

i dont think anything needs to be added to what she said.

noni wrote:When I would go with my Pakistani friends, I often saw a difference in treatment towards them (not me though). Not anything mean or offensive, but getting seated last when we were ahead of so many people or not being able to get into certain clubs.....It was very subtle.

We covered this subject and examples with many others not so long ago. Unfortunately the city has this problem and has not dealt with it as such.

Although unfortunate i do not believe it is nationalism which will make you experience these, but more of the Profiling problem which exists in the Middle East.

I have a British Friend of Bangladeshi Origin, has a doctorate, and has a very respectable occupation/reputation - is addressed to as Sir wherever he goes in Europe, but has been called "Miskeen" in the Middle East.

Going back to the Original post
I dont believe Nationalism is a problem. There is nothing wrong with being happy about being from US/Canada/UK/Sweden etc.

But i do agree with Mint, that social engineering can make people over patriotic where people are taught not to question the state....

rvp_legend wrote:
I have a British Friend of Bangladeshi Origin, has a doctorate, and has a very respectable occupation/reputation - is addressed to as Sir wherever he goes in Europe, but has been called "Miskeen" in the Middle East.

I wanted to clear this up. In local dialect "Miskeen" can be used as a term of endearment and not the traditional meaning "poor man". I know this because a local family friend of ours uses "Miskeen" with everyone haha ..

bushra21 wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

i dont think anything needs to be added to what she said.

Give me a reason why I should be proud of my german heritage? Should I also be proud of my American nationality?

I think you're confusing being proud of one's culture and being proud that you were born a certain ethnicity.

valkyrie wrote:

bushra21 wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

i dont think anything needs to be added to what she said.

Give me a reason why I should be proud of my german heritage? Should I also be proud of my American nationality?

I think you're confusing being proud of one's culture and being proud that you were born a certain ethnicity.

I shouldn't have to give you a reason for you to be proud of who you are. That is your choice, your decision.

I would like to know how I am confusing the two.

There is a difference between not being ashamed of your ethnicity/culture and being proud for something that you had no control over, in other words ascribed.

I wasn't asking for an actual example of my own, it was a rhetorical question of why someone should be proud of being a certain ethnicity.

I explained this in my previous post. All ethnic/cultural groups boast (implicitly or explicitly) of their "superiority" to other groups of humans...and all such claims are baseless on their face. It wasn't "English culture" or "Anglo-Saxon genius" that wrote Hamlet or Macbeth -- it was one particular guy that wrote those plays.

valkyrie wrote:There is a difference between not being ashamed of your ethnicity/culture and being proud for something that you had no control over, in other words ascribed.

I wasn't asking for an actual example of my own, it was a rhetorical question of why someone should be proud of being a certain ethnicity.

I explained this in my previous post. All ethnic/cultural groups boast (implicitly or explicitly) of their "superiority" to other groups of humans...and all such claims are baseless on their face. It wasn't "English culture" or "Anglo-Saxon genius" that wrote Hamlet or Macbeth -- it was one particular guy that wrote those plays.

All right, so what is wrong with my original post then? Well, actually it isnt my original post. I should say what is wrong with me agreeing with what Chocs said? Doesnt that just basically sum up what you are saying?

bushra21 wrote:

valkyrie wrote:There is a difference between not being ashamed of your ethnicity/culture and being proud for something that you had no control over, in other words ascribed.

I wasn't asking for an actual example of my own, it was a rhetorical question of why someone should be proud of being a certain ethnicity.

I explained this in my previous post. All ethnic/cultural groups boast (implicitly or explicitly) of their "superiority" to other groups of humans...and all such claims are baseless on their face. It wasn't "English culture" or "Anglo-Saxon genius" that wrote Hamlet or Macbeth -- it was one particular guy that wrote those plays.

All right, so what is wrong with my original post then? Well, actually it isnt my original post. I should say what is wrong with me agreeing with what Chocs said? Doesnt that just basically sum up what you are saying?

There is a difference between NOT being ASHAMED of your ethnicity/culture and being proud for something that you had no control over, in other words ascribed.

did you even read what i wrote...completely? the first sentence explains why. if you had read it, you wouldnt ask that question.

god people are dense

bushra21 wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Everyone should be proud of who they are/ where they come from. The problem comes when some think they're better than others, and deliberately put people down because of their nationality or background.

i dont think anything needs to be added to what she said.

and again i ask...what is wrong with the original statement?


It is saying, basically, what you are....

valkyrie wrote:Do you think it is wrong to be proud of being Palestinian, Lebanese, Irish or Arab etc?

It's only wrong if you are one thing but proud to be something else.


like lebanese but proud to be french.

American proud to want to be local (yes thats me, i have issues, sue me)

do you have a lawyer on hand bear....im going to take you down

bushra21 wrote:do you have a lawyer on hand bear....im going to take you down

I don't need a lawyer, I have a huge vocabulary and a BS in BS.

I admit, in London I would never tell anyone I was half Palestinian due to the stigma that comes with it. I worked in Celebrity PR and the media world is dominated by Jews in the west, so I always kept my mouth shut. I would just say I was totally British. That's not to say I have never been proud of my ethnicity, In fact, that's part of the reason I love being in Dubai. I can say I'm half Palestinian and people love it.

Being mixed race here is definitely a bonus and I feel privileged to have the best of both worlds. I am proud of my roots, but I do think sometimes, for the sake of harmony it's best not to mention it. If people in the UK were more aware and educated on the Israeli/Palestinian state of affairs, there's no way I'd hide it. But unfortunately, that's just not the case.

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:I admit, in London I would never tell anyone I was half Palestinian due to the stigma that comes with it. I worked in Celebrity PR and the media world is dominated by Jews in the west, so I always kept my mouth shut. I would just say I was totally British. That's not to say I have never been proud of my ethnicity, In fact, that's part of the reason I love being in Dubai. I can say I'm half Palestinian and people love it.

Being mixed race here is definitely a bonus and I feel privileged to have the best of both worlds. I am proud of my roots, but I do think sometimes, for the sake of harmony it's best not to mention it. If people in the UK were more aware and educated on the Israeli/Palestinian state of affairs, there's no way I'd hide it. But unfortunately, that's just not the case.

so therefore u feel ashamed and hide it to save hassle of explaining or embarassment? What if oneday u pass by the road and some guy calls another person f** Palestanian and verbally assaults the person. What would u do in that case?

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:I admit, in London I would never tell anyone I was half Palestinian due to the stigma that comes with it. I worked in Celebrity PR and the media world is dominated by Jews in the west, so I always kept my mouth shut. I would just say I was totally British. That's not to say I have never been proud of my ethnicity, In fact, that's part of the reason I love being in Dubai. I can say I'm half Palestinian and people love it.

Being mixed race here is definitely a bonus and I feel privileged to have the best of both worlds. I am proud of my roots, but I do think sometimes, for the sake of harmony it's best not to mention it. If people in the UK were more aware and educated on the Israeli/Palestinian state of affairs, there's no way I'd hide it. But unfortunately, that's just not the case.

What are you proud of being Palestinian for exactly? If I were proud of being white and my reason was simply that my skin is white and of my "white culture" wouldn't you see that as racism? And btw, there is no such thing as race, and Arabs certainly aren't their own race anymore than a Jew is.

No, I'm not ashamed or embarrassed and I LOVE talking about it to people with an open mind... I keep quiet in certain cases, so that I am not prejudged/looked down or treated differently by anybody. For example... My old company was run by Israeli Jews. Now, why would I tell them I was Palestinian when it could potentially ruin the beginning of my career? It doesn't mean I am ashamed at all. But the culture I was in and the career I was in, meant it was best to keep schtum.

As for someone being attacked on the street, I can't tell you. It depends on the situation. I might say something if I didn't think the guy was a threat to me. I might call the police if the guy was a threat to myself or the fellow Palestinian. Or I might leave it. It depends on many things.

No Val. I wouldn't say that was racism. Being proud of your race is fine. It's only when you are derogatory to non whites and don't accept them that it is racism. I'm proud of being half Palestinian for the following reasons:

1. I'm not totally British
2. It's made me a more worldly person and opened my eyes to not only my parents' cultures but others too.
3. It's brought me in to the Arab culture which is warm and friendly. It's like one big community
4. I'm proud that Palestinians are so strong and never give up
5. I love my Mum so much and when I her so proud of her background, it makes me proud

I'm sure there are other reasons. I think it's good to be proud of your culture. Personally, I love both worlds that I've been brought up in. That is not to say I speak ill of any other cultures. (OK, I'm not an Israeli fan, obviously). But I would certainly NEVER be abusive to another human being solely on their heritage.

Well lots of people 'hate' you Nismo!

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:No Val. I wouldn't say that was racism. Being proud of your race is fine. It's only when you are derogatory to non whites and don't accept them that it is racism.

rac‧ism (rey-siz-uhm)

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

http://www.dictionary.com

By definition, any race can be racist, it's not only the belief in white superiority.

And the last time I checked, being Palestinian was being part of a nation and holding the Palestinian nationality.

I'm not flaming, just offering definitions to help this discussion along.

I believe you can be proud of things you achieve, not where you come from since you have no control over that...

Princess Banana Hammock wrote: For example... My old company was run by Israeli Jews. Now, why would I tell them I was Palestinian when it could potentially ruin the beginning of my career?

Last i checked many big companies are owned by Jews...and they have oh so many Muslim, Arab employees. I think you have judged them. Remember Jews in Israel also employ Palestinians in Tel Aviv , Haifa etc. So why would they ruin your career?

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:It's only when you are derogatory to non whites and don't accept them that it is racism.

Apologies, but that is far from the truth. Racism = Prejudice with social power. It doesnt mean only white people can be racist. A black person in the UK who holds a prominent position can be racist towards a caucasion Eastern European for example.

man just be proud of whoever you are. even if you working in for some company and u believe that if u keep ur identity hidden u will benefit trust me you wont cos it shows ur shame of being who you are and have you thought about someone finding out your true identity. i mean then u ll be put to shame and it will be strange for you. so be proud of whoever you are and dont go saying oh pakis and indians stink of curries cos of you pakis and indians end up hiding their true identity.

peace