The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinement

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The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinement Feb 26, 2012
The Koran sets the penalty for fornicators as lashing. However, the Koran also says women guilty of lewdness is permanent home confinement. The seeming contradiction between these two verses is usually explained that "lewdness" and "fornication" are separate transgressions. Meaning, a fornicator is one who commits zina (unlawful intercourse) and lewdness applies to broader s.exual transgressions.

Unfortunately, this explanation seems to fall short in explaining another verse in the Koran that says slave women also guilty of lewdness are to receive half the punishment of free women. The problem here is that permanent home confinement cannot be halved. By definition, half of a life sentence is still life behind bars just as dividing infinity is still infinity.

But if the punishment for lewdness is actually lashing (which is now a contradiction), then this passage is now clear; a women guilty of "lewdness" will receive the punishment prescribed for adulterers which is 100 lashes. So, a married slave is to receive 50 lashes if she commits "lewdness" rather than permanent home confinement. Ergo, the Koran has two contradictory punishments for lewdness - one revealed verse laid down the punishment as home confinement and another verse implies the punishment for lewdness is the same as the punishment for fornication - lashing.


4:25 - And if when they are honourably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case).


4:15 - As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).


24:2 - The fornicatress and the fornicator -- scourge each one of them a hundred stripes, and in the matter of God's religion let no tenderness for them seize you if you believe in God and the Last Day; and let a party of the believers witness their chastisement.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
What confuses you about God prescribing different degrees of punishments for categories of crimes?

Are you one of those right-wing nuts that thinks judges should not have discretion on sentencing?

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Can one be an ex-fornicator, or does one always stay a fornicator, once fornicated?



I am always abhorred that according to Islam women getting pregnant outside wedlock should be lashed. In my society we help those, not punish them.
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Once you've served your punishment, your back to being a normal citizen who just happens to have previously committed a crime and been punished for it. Fornication is not a capital offence according to the Quran.

It really isn't a hard concept.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
shafique wrote:What confuses you about God prescribing different degrees of punishments for categories of crimes?

Are you one of those right-wing nuts that thinks judges should not have discretion on sentencing?


No, if you read the OP and comprehend basic English, the confusion is over different punishment for the same crime.

Really isn't difficult to understand to all but the reading impaired.

The Koran says lewdness should be punished with permanent home confinement but in another verse slave wives who commit lewdness receive "half" the punishment as free women.



What is half the punishment of permanent home confinement?

they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case).


women who are guilty of lewdness...confine them to the houses until death take them


Half the punishment of permanent home confinement?

Of course that makes no sense.

So what is the punishment for slave girls who commit lewdness? Half of 100 prescribed lashings?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
shafique wrote:Once you've served your punishment, your back to being a normal citizen who just happens to have previously committed a crime and been punished for it.


Good, I am buying the T-shirt then.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
eh - If you read and understood the first line of my post you'll see that I have addressed this.

What is your confusion over God prescribing a range of punishments for a category of crime? Do you think that there should be no flexibility on sentencing? Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

In America, what is the punishment for manslaughter - do some people get non-custodial sentences and others get sent to prison? Do all get the same prison sentence? Why is that?

FD - good luck with the T-shirt! ;)

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
What is your confusion over God prescribing a range of punishments for a category of crime


Sorry, but the offense is lewdness. And it's not over different types of lewdness but who commits lewndess.

So what is the punishment of slave wives who commit lewdness?

Is it half of permanent home confinement?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
In my example, the punishment was for the crime of manslaughter. Why is there a range of punishments for this one crime?

Substitute lewdness in your answer, and you'll understand why God has given a range of punishments that can apply.

It really isn't that complicated.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 26, 2012
Sorry, what is half the punishment of permanent home confinement?

Are lewd women lashed instead?

Which contradictory passage should judges rely on when sentencing "lewd" women?

50 lashes or half or permanent home confinement.

And it's not a range of punishments.

It's either home confinement or lashing.

Which is it?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
God gives a range of punishments - so it depends on the judge to exercise his judgement.

Simple.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 26, 2012
Sorry, what is the range of punishment for lewdness?

Lashing or home confinement?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Depends on the details of the crime and the judge's assessment of the crime.

Why this sudden interest in jurisprudence - is it because you spectacularly confused a racist mob of EDL supporters with a mob supporting rapists? If you can't understand a news article, I guess it is not surprising you are failing to grasp a simple concept of degrees of or alternative punishments.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 26, 2012
1) What punishment does the Koran prescribe for lewdness?

2) What is the punishment for slave wives who receive half the punishment of lewdness?

Let's see you contradict yourself anymore from previous statements:

Cool, you have no answer.

So, God gives two different punishments for two different crimes. Can't see a contradiction there - can you?

I can't be to blame (nor God for that matter) if you chose to overlook the fact that the more reputable translations don't translate 'lewdness' as adultery - as they are different words in Arabic. I'm not sure what you are going on about in terms of 'context' - the Arabic words are 'zina' for adultery in 24.2 and 'faHish' for lewdness in 4.15. The context is to be found in the dictionary meanings of the words.

Let me know when you have another alleged contradiction you want me to clarify.


You agreed with me back then. Two different punishment for the same crime WOULD be a contradiction.
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Fail.

You really must learn to read what is posted.

What is the one punishment in the US judicial system for the crime of manslaughter? Is there one, or is there a range of punishments that befit this ONE crime?

If you define the actual crime that you are thinking about that falls under 'lewdness' then perhaps we can see what judges have proscribed as punishments for that crime and how they relate to the Quranic verses.

It really isn't that complicated a concept. But then again, you seem easily confused - thinking a racist mob of EDL supporters were rioting in favour of rapists, for example.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
I'm not asking about the US judiciary. What is the punishment prescribed in the Koran for "lewdness"?

If you define the actual crime that you are thinking about that falls under 'lewdness' then perhaps we can see what judges have proscribed as punishments for that crime and how they relate to the Quranic verses.


Unfortunately the Koran doesn't define lewdness. It's a broad category with one punishment, I believe.

So, what is the punishment for lewdness according to the Koran?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
I refer you to my previous answers, and indeed your OP which seemed to be asking which of the range of punishments apply for a category of crime.

Why is it difficult for you to give me the ONE punishment for the ONE crime of manslaughter in the US judicial system?

Could it be because there isn't one unique punishment for the one crime?

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Does the Koran prescribe a punishment for lewdness?

What is the Koranic punishment for lewdness?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
What do you understand by the Quranic term that is translated as 'lewdness'? Can you describe what this one crime is to me?

You asked the question in the thread title, after all. So please be specific with your answer.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 26, 2012
Please stop dodging the question.

Does the Koran have a punishment for lewdness?

Koran 4:15 - Waallatee ya/teena alfahishata min nisa-ikum faistashhidoo AAalayhinna arbaAAatan minkum fa-in shahidoo faamsikoohunna fee albuyooti hatta yatawaffahunna almawtu aw yajAAala Allahu lahunna sabeelan


What is half of that punishment supposed to mean?

Koran 4:25 - Waman lam yastatiAA minkum tawlan an yankiha almuhsanati almu/minati famin ma malakat aymanukum min fatayatikumu almu/minati waAllahu aAAlamu bi-eemanikum baAAdukum min baAAdin fainkihoohunna bi-ithni ahlihinna waatoohunna ojoorahunna bialmaAAroofi muhsanatin ghayra masafihatin wala muttakhithati akhdanin fa-itha ohsinna fa-in atayna bifahishatin faAAalayhinna nisfu ma AAala almuhsanati mina alAAathabi thalika liman khashiya alAAanata minkum waan tasbiroo khayrun lakum waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 26, 2012
Thanks for quoting the transliteration for me.

However, I asked you what you understood by the term that is translated as 'lewdness'. Please be specific about what you think this means - as it appears you seem to think it is describing one unique 'crime'. Google is your friend.

So, what do you understand by 'lewdness'? Be specific.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 26, 2012
What is the Koranic punishment for lewdness?

How do you halve that punishment?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
I see why you are confused eh.

You must have relied on some random blogger for this argument, but didn't think to check what lewdness actually meant. Doesn't that make you look a bit silly to ask what the punishment is - given that you haven't been able to define the crime.

You are funny, but mostly sad.

I suggest you stick to misunderstanding English news reports before trying to give us your views on Islamic issues.

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 27, 2012
What is the punishment for alfahishata (lewdness) in the Koran?

Lewdness means lewdness. The Koran doesn't define what actions are lewd. So the offense that a woman would be found guilty for "lewdness" seems open to interpretation.

But that's beside the point. The punishment for lewdness is what I'm asking for.

What punishment does the Koran prescribe for alfahishata?

How do you halve that punishment?
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
When you look up what the word means, you'll find that you will be less confused. You've taken the trouble to look up the transliteration, so look up the meaning as well and let us know what eyou find.

Simple.

Now, will you ever explain why you thought a racist mob were rioting in favour of rapists? Or is that just another example of you presenting a lie as 'the truth'?

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Re: The punishment for "lewdness" - lashing or home confinem Feb 27, 2012
I'm asking you what the punishment for lewdness is.

Why would looking up what lewdness means clear up the punishment prescribed for lewdness in the Koran?

Does the Koran define lewdness? If so, I'll be happy to look up the Koran's conception of lewd acts.
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
I'm telling you AGAIN that when you work out what the term lewdness is in detail (and see that it is a wide category), your confusion will be lessened.

You need to define the crime first before you worry your little head with what Islamic jurisprudence advocates for the punishment.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
Let me know which verses FROM THE KORAN define what constitutes lewdness.

Also let me know when what the punishment for lewdness in the Koran is.
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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
The word God uses is an Arabic word and you can look up the meaning in dictionaries and commentaries. When you do so, your confusion will be lessened.

Then you can look at specific 'crimes' that fall under this term and we can look at what judges have prescribed as punishments for these specific crimes.

I'm not going to do your homework for you - just work out what 'lewdness' means in Arabic and we can then move to the next step.

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Re: The Punishment For "lewdness" - Lashing Or Home Confinem Feb 27, 2012
Why would my confusion be lessened? I want to know what the punishment prescribed for that word is.

Does the Koran have two different punishments for the same word or not?
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