Why Muslims Take Offence

Topic locked
  • Reply
Why Muslims Take Offence Feb 04, 2006
and why we must ALL recognise respect is a two-way street.


In one of our papers today is a very interesting article. It has given me a new perspective and i hope some food for thought and debate.

Yesterday a Jordanian Editor was sacked because he asked his readers a question.

"What brings more prejudice against Islam - these caricatures? Or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim?"

Also is an interesting fact that the Egyptian newspaper (gov controlled) Al Ahram routinely publishes anti- Jewish (not simply anti - Israeli) caricatures of men with hooked noses and Fagin like faces gloating as they take over the world and soak it in muslim blood.

When challenged the editor stated "well i'm affraid its just part of our culture, you should not take it too seriously".

This leads the writer on to say

"well free speech is part of our culture - so long as it does not seek to incite violence. But we do not riot, tear down mosques, burn national flags or do not issue death threats against those who offend me or my principles".

It is a suprise to most non muslims that representations of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) are forbidden. However the Koran does not state this. This only occurs in the Hadith which is a collection of the sayings of the Prophet written after his death.


Going back to the subject of offending caroons. Another Egyptian newspaper Al Ackbar also publish anti semitic cartoons. For example showing an Israelli Soldier with a Swastika for legs and the head of a pig, or Ehud Barak dressed as Hitler with blood dripping from his hands and standing on the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

Were the Egyptian embassies in Tel Aviv, Washington or London sieged by protestors.? NO.

Furthermore an english language paper produced in Saudi "The Arab News", and circulated around the Gulf , last week, depicted cartoons of Ariel Sharon wilding a swastika shaped axe to chop up Palestinian children.

To me these cartoons, all of which were copied in the Mail, are highly offensive. But the writer is right and i agree, it does not make me want to go and protest outside of any Embassy, let alone even leave my house for.

Some food for thought and hopefully peaceful calm discussion and debate please.

arniegang
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 7008
Location: UK/Dubai

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
Arniegang - interesting points.

Propaganda and insults should not take place and demean the person making the protests. However Arnie - all the instances you mention are +intended+ to cause offense, because of the hatred that is felt towards the people being insulted.

Two wrongs don't make a right - the presence of offensive and insulting cartoons in arabic publications does not excuse the publication of offensive and insulting images in European newspapers. Both are wrong and both cause offense to the targets - I'm sure no Jew feels happy to see these images.

However, note that no Arabic newspaper would publish a cartoon lampooning Moses, Jesus or any other Jewish prophet.

I therefore come back to the general point that Freedom of Speech is not without it's bounds - all civilized societies agree that it stops at the point where it becomes intentional and gratuitious insults. There are laws of slander and libel which transcend freedom of speech. This is also called common courtesy and respect.

I'll die in a ditch to defend anyone's right to freedom of speech... but please don't expect me to thank you for insulting what I hold dear. (Just a general point, not aimed at anyone in particular)

wasalaam,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
Idolizing any of the prophets is blasphemy and a no go. Can we kill this subject.
Liban
Dubai Forums Zealot
User avatar
Posts: 4683
Location: Dubai, UAE (Part of the Arab Nation)

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
I don't believe we should kill this subject. The shoe is on the other foot now (in terms of cartoons), and I do not hear or see any Westerner of Christian faith shouting "death to Muslims", rioting and burning Arab national flags, and storming embassies and other consulates etc.

Liban, I want to ask you a direct question:

Do you agree with the way Muslims have reacted around the world i.e. death threats, pictures of masked gunmen, storming of consulates/embassies etc?
yorky500
Dubai forums GURU
User avatar
Posts: 2050

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
Mr. Boobs, you can add burning embassies to the list. (Danish, Chilean, and Swedish embassies on fire in Damascus.)
kanelli
Miss DubaiForums 2006
User avatar
Posts: 6979
Location: In the Jungle

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
Liban

My post was not one of intention of starting a "flame" war. I merely wanted to open this up for discussion, in particular, with people like yourself in the hope of better understanding and serious debate.

The article in the Daily Mail today, in my view was a very interesting read. The writer, similar to Shafique puts his point across without "bias". It was merely giving facts and an alternative viewpoint.

Liban, we all have agreed the cartoons were disgraceful. The point of my post was to draw attention to the fact that many Arab newspapers also post such cartoons, that are also considered disgraceful.

The Arab newspapers in showing as Nazi Israelli figures and in particular Hitler is deemed both highly offensive to not only the Jewish people, but the likes of any individual like myself, that lost family in 1the 939-45 war irespective of their religion.

At the end of the day, it cuts both ways doesn't it. As much as every Muslim took huge exception and anger to the cartoons (and rightly so), within various Arab publications, the very same thing is done to others. This was as offensive to Israelli's per se' and other individuals, as the Dutch cartoons were offensive to Muslims.
arniegang
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 7008
Location: UK/Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Why Muslims Take Offence Feb 04, 2006
Sweetheart ;

why were u pissed off when i said "Pious Cow to " British Queen :P .

So find the answer of your question in " why were arniegang pissed off when HP said pious cow to british queen " :wink:

well all people are not the same , and some people take it insult and then you can see the reaction :)
HP
Dubai Forums Knight
Posts: 2675
Location: Pakistan

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
Because i found it offensive HP - the same as i find the cartoons regarding the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) offensive. I think you may have lost the plot HP.

One of the major points here is "the result of the reaction". Words and peacefull demonstrations are powerful tools, buring buildings and threatening and intimidating people are not.
arniegang
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 7008
Location: UK/Dubai

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
arniegang wrote:Because i found it offensive HP - the same as i find the cartoons regarding the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) offensive. I think you may have lost the plot HP.

One of the major points here is "the result of the reaction". Words and peacefull demonstrations are powerful tools, buring buildings and threatening and intimidating people are not.


So u culd tell this to President G.W.Bush after 9-11 , that they shuld had done peacefull demonstrations because it was powerful tool ,bombing Afghanistan and Iraq are not :roll:

well as well as Muslims in DK are concerned they did a lot , they even tried to meet with Prime mininster of DK ,but he refused to meet them. When nothing came out ,they they went to middle east to tell the muslims govt how the danish media ws making fun of our prophet .
HP
Dubai Forums Knight
Posts: 2675
Location: Pakistan

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
HP this has nothing to do with 9/11, i am not even going there.

It had nothing to do with the Danish PM. The paper was not breaking any law within a country that has a "free press".

He has stated on TV that he considered it offensive and that it should not have been printed.

Anyway what has the Danish PM talking or not talking, got to do with the burning of Embassies and violent demonstrations?
arniegang
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 7008
Location: UK/Dubai

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
arniegang wrote:HP this has nothing to do with 9/11, i am not even going there.

It had nothing to do with the Danish PM. The paper was not breaking any law within a country that has a "free press".

He has stated on TV that he considered it offensive and that it should not have been printed.

Anyway what has the Danish PM talking or not talking, got to do with the burning of Embassies and violent demonstrations?


Free press also has obligation .The people who work for media they understand cross culture issue and sensitivity of the particular issue ,thats why British and US media has self censorship . DK is losing it market in middle east .

as i said ......in some cultures and socities ,some people have great respect for some personalities and some people care more than the others. So when someone make fun of their feeling ,aftermath is always " out of control".

Group of Danish people announced to Brun the Holy book of muslims in Copenhagen ,DK. When the news speard in middle east that Danes are buring the Quran (koran) in Copenhagen ,muslims were angry and you saw the situation in Syria.
HP
Dubai Forums Knight
Posts: 2675
Location: Pakistan

  • Reply
Feb 04, 2006
yorky500 wrote:
Liban, I want to ask you a direct question:

Do you agree with the way Muslims have reacted around the world i.e. death threats, pictures of masked gunmen, storming of consulates/embassies etc?


There are many ways to react to what those morons did in Europe with those blasphemous pictures. Now I personally would have suied (sp?) the perpetrators for an official apology and firing the staff that authorzed the cartoons AND boycotted and/or sanctionned the products of the country to make the respective nation's leader apologize (PM, Royal, President, etc...).

Now as for what is happening... Well people are angry, they are insensed, and deeply offended. Our governments are for the most part, quite stupid to be honest and do not do shit all for their people (lets stop kidding ourselves with this point). Therefore our people have to take action.

I am not going to condemn what these people are doing because I feel for them and I myself am extremily angry and insulted...

But as for myself, I am simply engaging in the boycott and I have emailed a few of the magazines and papers to tell them how insulted and hurt I am... Of course, no response... So that tells you how I would have acted....
Liban
Dubai Forums Zealot
User avatar
Posts: 4683
Location: Dubai, UAE (Part of the Arab Nation)

  • Reply
Feb 05, 2006
yorky500 wrote:I don't believe we should kill this subject. The shoe is on the other foot now (in terms of cartoons), and I do not hear or see any Westerner of Christian faith shouting "death to Muslims", rioting and burning Arab national flags, and storming embassies and other consulates etc.

Liban, I want to ask you a direct question:

Do you agree with the way Muslims have reacted around the world i.e. death threats, pictures of masked gunmen, storming of consulates/embassies etc?

well yorky let me ask u a question. How many ppl go to church and give a damn about Christainity? How many ppl really follow the 10 commandments? most of the christians outthere wear the cross just for fashion and cry out "Jesus" as an expression. That religion is almost dead. Ppl nowadays think money and power as God. Those ppl themselves insult Jesus Christ what hell respect would they pay to other prophets? So they dont have time to say death to muslims cos they can spend that time to earn money.
hashman
Dubai Forums Frequenter
Posts: 108

  • Reply
Feb 05, 2006
Look people the headline of news paper ,which published cartoon :)

Honourable Fellow Citizens of the Muslim World

Hahahaha ,this was the news paper ,which always used to write against muslims :P ,sometime they find the problem in head scarf and sometime they were doing the research like " every 1 out of 5 muslim is terrorist and criminal in Denmark " :P

I am happy to see now they are paying back :P
HP
Dubai Forums Knight
Posts: 2675
Location: Pakistan

  • Reply
Feb 05, 2006
Hashman

Why dont you attempt to discuss the original post instead of attacking Yorkie with discussions and agruement that had nothing to do with his post and the topic at hand.
arniegang
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 7008
Location: UK/Dubai

posting in Philosophy and Religion ForumsForum Rules

Return to Philosophy and Religion Forums


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Last post