Killing For Food?

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Killing for food? Jan 31, 2011
Killing for food?
My point:

You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.
The killing is the greatest sin

You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food. God has given enough vegetable food that contains all the ingredients present in the non-vegetarian food. After all, the source of ingredients of any flesh is only vegetable kingdom only. Eating the non-vegetarian food is not a sin because same ingredients exist in both vegetarian and non-vegetarian foods. But, you have to kill a living being for the sake of non-vegetarian food. The killing is the greatest sin.

You may argue that you have not killed the living being directly. Such argument cannot stand. Since you are eating the non-vegetarian food, the living being is killed. You are responsible for its killing. Therefore, you are the principle shareholder of the sin. There is nothing wrong if you eat a living being after its natural death. In Hinduism, there is a sect of people called ‘Kapalikas’, who eat the dead living beings. Therefore, they do not acquire sin. The tsunami is always due to anger of God since you are killing the living beings present in water for food. The earthquakes are due to killing of living beings that exist on the earth. God in the form of Buddha and Mahavir preached the non-violence and severely opposed the killing of living beings.

God in some other human forms might have followed the practice of non-vegetarian food in order to join with non-vegetarian people so that, certain other higher aspects to be preached might have been taken into consideration. That does not mean that God has encouraged the killing of living beings through non-vegetarian food. He might have kept silent on this issue in order to give importance to other serious issues. God follows the ignorance of the students in order to become friendly with them. To control a running bull, you have to run along with it for some distance before controlling it.

All these are the basic concepts of nivrutti, which are the core of pravrutti. By following the ethics of pravrutti, you will avoid God becoming furious with you. Then, through nivrutti, you can please God. On one hand, you are making God furious by not following the ethics of pravrutti and how can you please God through nivrutti simultaneously?

dattaswami
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Re: Killing For Food? Jan 31, 2011
Trees are living creatures too
zubber
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Re: Killing for food? Jan 31, 2011
In the old days if you had to live around barren hot desserts, icelands or on barren mountains where you couldn't grow vegies you had to herd animals to milk them to substitute water and vegetables, and benefit from their meet to stay alive..To this day the rule hasn't changed and perfectly compatible with heavenly divine order..
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 01, 2011
Berrin wrote:In the old days if you had to live around barren hot desserts, icelands or on barren mountains where you couldn't grow vegies you had to herd animals to milk them to substitute water and vegetables, and benefit from their meet to stay alive..To this day the rule hasn't changed and perfectly compatible with heavenly divine order..

A goat is a pure vegetarian but you are eating that goat also. When you find a human being, who is a murderer, will you kill him directly or hand over him to the court? Assuming that the fish is also a murderer, you cannot kill it directly. God will punish it.

In the case of the fish(Some fish eats some other fish), you need not file a case against the fish in the court of the God, because there is no need of such filing in the case of God. Moreover you are raising your voice against the hanging of a murderer stating, “If you cannot give life, you have no right to take it away”. You are also pleading that hanging is the most barbaric deed and that several countries have banned it. Your statement applies to the fish also, which is a murderer of the creatures. Life is common in the human being as well as the fish. Both are living beings.

If you don’t have right to take away the life of a human being, you have also no right to take the life of the fish also. The Dharma Shastras say that non-voilence is the highest justice (Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah). If you say that the fish kills the creatures for food and that there is no sin, there should not be sin if cornivorous hunters from forest enter the city and start eating the human beings. You should not object their food also, but you will kill them because your fellow human beings are killed. If you broaden your heart and see the fish as your fellow living being, you are practicing the highest form of justice, which pleases the Lord. You cannot compare the plants with animals and birds. Even in the case of plants, the green plants should not be cut.

Plucking leaves and fruits is not killing. The crops are cut only when they die after loosing the sign of the life, which is the Green Chlorophyll. In plants life exists but mind and intelligence do not exist.

Life is called as Pranamaya Kosa. Mind is Manomaya Kosa. Intelligence is Vijnanamaya Kosa. The life is only inert mechanism of exchange process of Oxygen and Carbondioxide and release of energy by oxidation. This mechanism has no awareness of the pain. The mind is represented by the nervous system, which is not present in the plants. The mind may be in very very primitive stage in plants as per the research of Mr. Bose. The ancient Indian sages avoided even plucking the leaves and fruits. They ate leaves and fruits when they have fallen from the plants (Swayam Viseerna Dhruva Patra Vruttita).

They avoided this trace of sin also. In plucking the leaf and killing an animal, the sin is qualitatively equal, but there is a lot of quantitative difference. One percent sin and hundred percent sin cannot be equated. Your argument concludes that if one does one percent sin, why not hundred percent sin be done? This equates to your statement that if one plucks a leaf why not we kill an animal. Are you pained equally if I steal one rupee or one lakh rupees from your pocket. The trace of sin can always be neglected. The Lord came as Bhuddha and preached this non-voilence. Veda also says that one should kill his animal nature in the sacrifice and not the animal (Manyuh Pasuh).

As you think, children are not innocent. The child of a demon has the devil characteristics in the form of seeds. The soul in a child has just entered the earth after a long punishment in the hell. The strength of the sinful attitude (Samskara) is very much reduced but did not vanish completely. A thief when released from a police station after a long torture has the attitude of stealing in very much reduced state. The attitude did not disappear.

When he comes out and enters a suitable encouraging atmosphere, this seed grows as a tree and he is caught by the police again for his theft. Similarly when the child grows, again the grown up person does the same sin and at the end goes to the hell. This is the cycle of deeds (Karma Chakra). When a child is taken away by God, it is something like arresting the thief immediately after his release. This prevents the thief to steal again. He must be considered lucky.

The child may get a better birth. The angle of sympathy comes since you are not aware of the soul in the body of the child. The body is like a shirt and the death is only destruction of the shirt. Gita emphasizes about this aspect in the beginning itself. The plans of the Lord are not known to us. He may give a better shirt in a better place and protect the soul. We see a brief part of the film and conclude.
Only complete and thorough spiritual knowledge can remove all the doubts.
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 01, 2011
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desertdudeshj
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 01, 2011
A goat is a pure vegetarian but you are eating that goat also.

Of course, its digestive system created only to digest vegies when left alone, out in the open..While human digestive system created to accomadate both source of food as in the case of nomads..

When you find a human being, who is a murderer, will you kill him directly or hand over him to the court?

If I am left alone with a murderer, the chances that I can hand him over to police would be very weak as he would also attempt to kill me, if he attempts to kill, I too would bloody attempt to kill him provided that I have similar weapons to combat..If I am a woman, I would be in double trouble since he would physically be stronger than me..

Assuming that the fish is also a murderer, you cannot kill it directly. God will punish it.

Its pointless to kill an animal once the damage is done, since they have no sense of judgement, humans have enough intelligence to not jerk around wild animals..
You cannot compare status of animals with humans since humans are the greatest of all creation with power of thought to judge and decide what is right or wrong for themselves and others..

Moreover you are raising your voice against the hanging of a murderer stating, “If you cannot give life, you have no right to take it away”. You are also pleading that hanging is the most barbaric deed and that several countries have banned it.


Yes If I cannot give life I cannot take it away as long as my life is not threaten to exist..
All humans know this but despite, some of them continue to become i.e serial killers, there is nothing more barbaric to let them live when they are likely to continue killing..
In the old days we didn't use to have modern prisons or rehabilitation centres...Even this day I wish not to see my taxes getting wasted on say serial killers when there are millions of good people dying from hunger and diseases around the world..

If you don’t have right to take away the life of a human being, you have also no right to take the life of the fish also.

I only can't take the life of the shark, couse I don't live in the sea..But still, I wouldn't take the life of a shark away becouse he is programmed to exit by living on preys, it's humans duty to stay away from their habitation where they are likely to be found..

Sorry but datta I cannot attach myself any of what you are saying if I judge your claims on deeper dimentions..
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 02, 2011
Berrin wrote:
A goat is a pure vegetarian but you are eating that goat also.

Of course, its digestive system created only to digest vegies when left alone, out in the open..While human digestive system created to accomadate both source of food as in the case of nomads..

When you find a human being, who is a murderer, will you kill him directly or hand over him to the court?

If I am left alone with a murderer, the chances that I can hand him over to police would be very weak as he would also attempt to kill me, if he attempts to kill, I too would bloody attempt to kill him provided that I have similar weapons to combat..If I am a woman, I would be in double trouble since he would physically be stronger than me..

Assuming that the fish is also a murderer, you cannot kill it directly. God will punish it.

Its pointless to kill an animal once the damage is done, since they have no sense of judgement, humans have enough intelligence to not jerk around wild animals..
You cannot compare status of animals with humans since humans are the greatest of all creation with power of thought to judge and decide what is right or wrong for themselves and others..

Moreover you are raising your voice against the hanging of a murderer stating, “If you cannot give life, you have no right to take it away”. You are also pleading that hanging is the most barbaric deed and that several countries have banned it.


Yes If I cannot give life I cannot take it away as long as my life is not threaten to exist..
All humans know this but despite, some of them continue to become i.e serial killers, there is nothing more barbaric to let them live when they are likely to continue killing..
In the old days we didn't use to have modern prisons or rehabilitation centres...Even this day I wish not to see my taxes getting wasted on say serial killers when there are millions of good people dying from hunger and diseases around the world..

If you don’t have right to take away the life of a human being, you have also no right to take the life of the fish also.

I only can't take the life of the shark, couse I don't live in the sea..But still, I wouldn't take the life of a shark away becouse he is programmed to exit by living on preys, it's humans duty to stay away from their habitation where they are likely to be found..

Sorry but datta I cannot attach myself any of what you are saying if I judge your claims on deeper dimentions..

Non-vegetarian food by it self is not a sin since the analysis of it shows that its contents are the same as exist in vegetarian food. The sin comes by killing a co-living being, which does not harm you at all. If you stop taking non-vegetarian food, killing of living beings is proportionally controlled. Do not say that you are not getting sin since you have not killed the living being directly.

Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.
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Re: Killing For Food? Feb 02, 2011
Datta - could you comment on these references I found. Are they authentic?

They quote Hindu scriptures on the subject of eating meat:
Manusmriti (Chapter 5 / Verse 30) says, “It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals, for Brahma has created both the eaters and the eatables.”

Manusmriti (5 / 35) states: When a man who is properly engaged in a ritual does not eat meat, after his death he will become a sacrificial animal during twenty-one rebirths.

Maharishi Yagyavalkya says in Shatpath Brahmin (3/1/2/21) that, “I eat beef because it is very soft and delicious.”
Apastamb Grihsutram (1/3/10) says, “The cow should be slaughtered on the arrival of a guest, on the occasion of ‘Shraddha’ of ancestors and on the occasion of a marriage.”
Rigveda (10/85/13) declares, “On the occasion of a girl’s marriage oxen and cows are slaughtered.”
Rigveda (6/17/1) states that “Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo.”
Vashistha Dharmasutra (11/34) writes, “If a Brahmin refuses to eat the meat offered to him on the occasion of ‘Shraddha’ or worship, he goes to hell.”

Also, comments of some great scholars of Hinduism are also worth noting:
· Hinduism’s greatest propagator Swami Vivekanand said thus: “You will be surprised to know that according to ancient Hindu rites and rituals, a man cannot be a good Hindu who does not eat beef”. (The Complete Works of Swami Vivekanand, vol.3, p. 536).
· Mukandilal writes in his book ‘Cow Slaughter – Horns of a Dilemma’, page 18: “In ancient India, cow-slaughter was considered auspicious on the occasions of some ceremonies. Bride and groom used to sit on the hide of a red ox in front of the ‘Vedi’ (alter).”
· A renowned scholar of scriptures Dr. Pandurang Vaman Kane says, “Bajsancyi Samhita sanctifies beef-eating because of its purity”. (Dharmashastra Vichar Marathi, page 180)
· Adi Shankaracharya’ commentary on Brihdaranyakopanishad 6/4/18 says : ‘Odan’ (rice) mixed with meat is called ‘Mansodan’. On being asked whose meat it should be, he answers ‘Uksha’. ‘Uksha’ is used for an ox, which is capable to produce semen.
· The book ‘The History and Culture of the Indian People’, published by Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan, Bombay and edited by renowned historian R.C.Majumdar (Vol.2, page 578) says: “this is said in the Mahabharat that King Rantidev used to kill two thousand other animals in addition to two thousand cows daily in order to give their meat in charity”.


http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15 ... 200236.htm
shafique
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 03, 2011
Nuts to religion because I don't believe in any of that garbage! But the human 'animal' has evolved as an omnivore - look at your teeth! The front ones are meant for tearing at flesh, whereas the back ones are designed for crushing and chomping all food materials.

Mines a steak please - bl.o.ody as hell!
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 04, 2011
Non-vegetarian food by it self is not a sin since the analysis of it shows that its contents are the same as exist in vegetarian food. The sin comes by killing a co-living being, which does not harm you at all. If you stop taking non-vegetarian food, killing of living beings is proportionally controlled. Do not say that you are not getting sin since you have not killed the living being directly.

Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.


I feel there is fundamental failure in your logic or analysis..
Mongolians are no mads, they take their herds wherever they travel on barren mountains where grass is the only form of food, majority of the time at least..
Those herds are found to be co-living beings, along the inhabitants of tents. So do they become sinners if they decide to kill an animal to feed themselves?

In islam killing a co-living edible/halal animal only becomes a sin, if you kill more than you need at a time...i.e wastage, extravagance..
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 04, 2011
Personally I like this idea, but I can never ever stick to it, first because I like meat! Second I think it is not healthy to eliminate beef, chicken and fish of your diet.

I have this friend, she is very interested in Hindu practices, we visited India together and well I saw there are lots of great diversified vegetarian foods available! We don’t have that diversification in Iran, as our main cuisine is Kebab! :D

What my friend does is she tries to be vegetarian for like one week in a month. Well that way she can prevent some killing I guess.
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 04, 2011
Berrin wrote:
Non-vegetarian food by it self is not a sin since the analysis of it shows that its contents are the same as exist in vegetarian food. The sin comes by killing a co-living being, which does not harm you at all. If you stop taking non-vegetarian food, killing of living beings is proportionally controlled. Do not say that you are not getting sin since you have not killed the living being directly.

Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.


I feel there is fundamental failure in your logic or analysis..
Mongolians are no mads, they take their herds wherever they travel on barren mountains where grass is the only form of food, majority of the time at least..
Those herds are found to be co-living beings, along the inhabitants of tents. So do they become sinners if they decide to kill an animal to feed themselves?

In islam killing a co-living edible/halal animal only becomes a sin, if you kill more than you need at a time...i.e wastage, extravagance..

Killing is defintely a sin, should avoid as far as possible...
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 04, 2011
Killing is defintely a sin, should avoid as far as possible...


Ohh wooow woooww datta that's an improvement, now we should avoid killing as much as possible, so killing is definetly not a sin....Thank you brother you proved us right!... at last....
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Re: Killing for food? Feb 04, 2011
Berrin wrote:
Killing is defintely a sin, should avoid as far as possible...


Ohh wooow woooww datta that's an improvement, now we should avoid killing as much as possible, so killing is definetly not a sin....Thank you brother you proved us right!... at last....

There are lot of people who are in the habit of killing for eating. SUch people are doing this for long time and are addicted to it. They are like patients who require treatment very urgently. They are like serial killers, who need urgent treatment. If to them if truth is revealed they cannot follow it. Killing is a sin. One should stop abruptly killing for eating, this is the truth. But these people cannot be controlled since they reject truth and mock it also. This is the standard of people!! Therefore such curel hearted people who do not accept truth atleast they can reduce eating meat slowly slowly......till they reach complete, stoppage...
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Re: Killing For Food? Feb 04, 2011
Killing is a sin, right ? Then what do we eat ? Because plants and trees are also living creatures and we are effectively killing them to eat them aswell.

So should we all just die of hunger ? Or eat dead foilage.

Also another point, according to you it should be perfectly fine to eat any animals that have died natuarally, right ? Since we haven't killed them for food.

I mean all this sounds very nice fluffy, green, veggie and eco friendly but isn't at all practical. Also what are your thoughts on consuming eggs, milk, cheese etc etc
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