Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

And to answer the question - belatedly - yes, I do indeed consider the list to be entirely right wing IDEOLOGIES and not left wing at all. I do not consider racism and anti-semitism as left wing ideologies nor indeed leader worship for that matter.

Is the troll still speaking about how little he knows of the topics he pontificates on?

Get a clue. Karl Marx would be racist by modern standards and Joseph Stalin became a paranoid anti-Semite at the end of his life.

You don't know any of this because you speak from ignorance on topics, re: Fascist Manifesto and the Nazi's 25 point program.

Instead of addressing real Nazi/fascist economic and social policies you repeat yourself about a list someone made up that you trawled the internet for.

And hero worship has nothing to do with right/left politics. It falls on an authoritarian/libertarian axis. You're spewing nonsense that is absurd and absolutely wrong.

Fail, eh.

shafique wrote:And to answer the question - belatedly - yes, I do indeed consider the list to be entirely right wing IDEOLOGIES and not left wing at all. I do not consider racism and anti-semitism as left wing ideologies nor indeed leader worship for that matter.

If you have a list of left wing ideologies that list these traits, then please post it. For example wiki's entry for left-wing clearly shows that racism and anti-semitism are not part of left wing ideology - they are against this discrimination.

Can you show me any left-wing group that says anti-semitism is part of their ideology? Nazism has this as a key ideology.

Cheers,
Shafique

^ To answer your own quoted question: the Koran.

Fail.

No Muslim group says that anti-Semitism is part of their key ideology - only some fringe anti-Muslim bloggers believe this is part of Islam. Now, the last time I looked - anti-Muslim bloggers weren't left-wing.

So, we come back to the list of key Nazi ideologies - including racism and anti-Semitism, which are not found in any left-wing group's list of ideologies. The list is right-wing and therefore the Nazis are right wing.

QED

Cheers,
Shafique

Not one time is antisemitism listed as "right wing" politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

Antisemitism is not specific for right or left wing.

shafique wrote:The list is right-wing and therefore the Nazis are right wing.

The argument "because I say so" doesn't really fly.

Anti-semitism and racism are not part of left-wing politics - quite the opposite.

If you read the link you gave, you'd have found this :

Stephen Fisher in his The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics asserts that in liberal democracies the political right oppose socialism and social democracy, and that right-wing parties include philosophies of conservatism, Christian democracy, liberalism, libertarianism, and nationalism. He claims that "extreme right parties (have included) elements of racism and fascism"

Thanks - it makes my point very well.

Racism and anti-semitism is not found in any left-wing ideology, but is found in the Nazi's right-wing ideology.

QED (again)

Cheers,

Shafique

The actual quote reads:

He claims that "extreme right parties (have included) elements of racism and fascism"

Just like Hamas and other Islamist political parties are Anti-Semitic and Islamic Law has always been Anti-Semitic - Jews are considered second class citizens under Muslim law and the Koran makes numerous anti-Jewish statements.

Is the Nation of Islam (anti-Semitic and racist) and Black nationalism right or left wing? To me, the NOI and Black Nationalism have always been part of the Leftist political spectrum and they are clearly racist or have racist elements.

Nazis are pretty extreme right-wing party - what's your point?

My point was quite simple - left wing ideology does not allow for any racism (at the core, left wing ideology is egalitarian). The fact that Nazism has racism as a core ideology makes it right wing.

I would not call the NOI left wing - far from it. Indeed a quick google shows that is referred to as 'radical right wing Nation of Islam' by some. Indeed, haven't some of your far-right neo-nazis spoken at their rallies?

Another simple litmus test - when we mention 'far-right neo-Nazis' there's no dispute that they are right-wing, but do you concede that a core characteristic of these neo-Nazis is their racism? A neo-Nazi is associated very strongly with the core belief of racial superiority - and this a key characteristic.

Same with the Nazis - core belief in racism. Racism is not left wing. QED

Cheers,
Shafique

Nazis are pretty extreme right-wing party - what's your point?

Indeed. That's why nationalization of industry is a key feature of right-wing politics...no, wait....

left wing ideology does not allow for any racism (at the core, left wing ideology is egalitarian)

Nazism is socialism for the German people. Didn't you know the Nazis believed all Germans were equal?

The fact that Nazism has racism as a core ideology makes it right wing.

And if you want to talk about core ideologies (something you know nothing about), what strand of right-wing economic policies does racism originate from?

Indeed, haven't some of your far-right neo-nazis spoken at their rallies?

Perhaps you're thinking of white supremacists, anti-Semites, Nazis and neo-Nazis who have supported the Palestinian cause and continue to do so; for example, David Duke speaking of Palestinian issues in Syria not long ago.

A neo-Nazi is associated very strongly with the core belief of racial superiority - and this a key characteristic.

Now you're getting desperate. The key economic policies of the Nazi party has been highlighted several times now. You've fled from addressing the key beliefs of the Nazi party.

Resorting to what non-Nazis believe as "proof" of Nazi belief doesn't prove anything about the Nazis.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs eh.

Suffice to say that along with beliefs in talking donkeys, alledging that the crusades were not holy wars, Rapture etc etc - you and I will not agree on this particular belief of yours that the Nazis were left wing.

For me, the core ideologies of the Nazis include anti-Semitism and Racism - both of which are right-wing and are against the egalitarian core of left wing ideologies. That alone makes the Nazis clearly right wing.

You're just trying to put lipstick on a pig and passing it off as a super model. Good luck with that.

Cheers,

Shafique

Thanks for restating your opinion over addressing actual Nazi political program.

That would be like addressing Karl Marx's views on politics and economics without parsing through any of his books.

Good luck with sounding like an expert on topics you know nothing about.

I refer you to my previous comments about putting lipstick on a pig.

Your belief that the Nazis were left wing has been noted. The reason why I disagree with your belief has been given. I see no point in resorting to name-calling or rehashing the points where we disagree.

Nazis to me are right wing because of their right wing core ideologies. When I hear hooves, I think horses.

Cheers,

Shafique

Thanks for not refuting any Nazi beliefs showing that they were indeed socialists. I don't have to worry about refining my arguments if I ever come across someone with a few working brain cells in the future who claims the Nazis were "far-right".



When I hear nationalization I think socialism.

event horizon wrote:Good luck with sounding like an expert on topics you know nothing about.

Said the pot to the kettle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC9uQ_z0 ... plpp_video

There are obvious parallels between islam and Nazism that we are taught to ignore because we have to be tolerant of others religions.
However the Nazi movement was based on the fact that some people were better than others, just like islam also preaches no tolerance for those who are not muslems.
Like the Nazis, the Jews are the target of islam, the dispute about Israel is not a war of land or geography but antisemitism of the worst kind. Watch the translated video.
Like the Nazis, islam followers prohibit freedom for groups other than their own. In some islamic countries, other churches are not permitted to exist, as is the case with Saudi Arabia.

herve wrote:There are obvious parallels between islam and Nazism

Not in the real world there isn't.

Cheers,

Shafique

hervey baby - the Nazis had an official Third Reich Church and priests etc who were Nazis. To this day the Martin Luther church in Berlin has Hitler and Stormtroopers represented there.







philosophy-dubai/third-reich-christendom-t48402.html

And yet, no one in the real world says that Christianity is linked to the Nazis - and your Islamophobic theory linking Islam to Nazism is even LESS credible.

Also, this myth of yours has nothing to do with this thread.

You are trolling (again).

Cheers,

Shafique

The video I posted is 7' 45 " long

al shafique posted his reply 10' later. which left him 2'15" "IF" he watched my link, to write, look for pictures, attach them to his reply and post his reply.

The only conclusion is that al shafique does not even read or watch any attachment, he just posts his propaganda without watching what people post on DF.

Facts vs fiction hervey baby. I'm aware of the Mufti's connection with Nazi Germany - anyone who's studied history of the region knows this. The links are easy enough to find - takes all of 30 seconds. Third Reich Christendom is what you have search for.

Your myth about the link between Islam and Nazism is just that.

Why don't you address the fact that there was an official Christian Church of the Third Reich?

Cheers,

Shafique

Troll.

Your video myths aren't relevant to this thread. But if you want to discuss the topic, I suggest you start a new thread and address the point that Nazis had an official Christian Church, and explain how this fits in with your theory.

Also, you still have to answer the question in the 'herve conspiracy theory' thread - do you now concede that you are a coward of 'the vilest kind' for pretending to be gertrude and posting positive reviews of your book etc?

Cheers,
Shafique

I agree Herve, there is very uncanny similarity between nazism and Islamofascism, no doubt.