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Dane: Remember, that free speech allows us to criticise our press, our leaders and even our religion...

Muslim: It is the same in Islam... We too have the right to criticise your press, your leaders and your religion...

The man on the right looked like the caricatures of Jews in old European anti-Semitic cartoons - perhaps it was intentional?

The similarities between event horizon/rayznack Islamophobia (and smear tactics, exposed in other threads) does bear an uncanny resemblance to the virulent European anti-semitism propaganda of the past - see this article from a couple of days ago

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/fe ... da/0019178

Islamophobia & Anti-Semitism: Everything Old Is New Again

First, let's look at themes from anti-Semitic propaganda, and then at just a few of the statements currently being made about Islam and Muslims.
..

The list is long, so click on link to read.. but caricaturing Muslims like Jews in the past is totally in line with the points made.

Thanks for posting eh - it illustrates the similiarities between your views and anti-Jewish views very well.

Cheers,
Shafique

Both men in the cartoon look white to me. One looks like a caricature of a Jewish person as per old propaganda (the Jews in Europe that were depicted are white, after all) - hence my comments above.

You really must do something about your obsession with race BM (yeah, yeah - you will insist you're not avowed racist BM.. ).

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:- see this article from a couple of days ago

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/fe ... da/0019178

That article doesn't have photos of newspaper clips with cartoons and headlines, but if you have access to london library do search them for that era with all the cartoons and headlines for Jews.

^You're right. I don't think it would be good to post the Nazi-era cartoons here.

However the article's long list of Anti-semitic propaganda points and the equivalent Islamophobic ones is pretty eye-opening.

Cheers,

Shafique

jackpott wrote:Do you think the white man isn't a caricature of a typical Danish man shafique? Or do you think Danish men really look that way?

It's funny you didn't get a direct answer to your question. I guess trying to answer it would require rational thought.

Nazi wrote:The similarities between event horizon/rayznack Islamophobia (and smear tactics, exposed in other threads) does bear an uncanny resemblance to the virulent European anti-semitism propaganda of the past - see this article from a couple of days ago

Such as claiming Jews and Judaism are segregationist, responsible for the world's problems and "chosen one" means 'superior to others'?

I notice the article fails to mention Antisemitism in newspapers and media in the Muslim world *today*. How interesting.

Fail. Again.

What is it with these wild fantasies everytime someone corners you eh?

Are innuendo and smear all you have left? (And I like the 'whataboutery' line in the end.. classy, not )

Cheers,
Shafique

rayznack wrote:Such as claiming Jews and Judaism are segregationist, responsible for the world's problems and "chosen one" means 'superior to others'?

Maybe there is some truth in that eh . The further I read documented info, the more I get intrigued to discover how atheist materialist zionism turnes the world politics upside down.. http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha ... r_plan.htm

^The segregationist point has been discussed to death:
dubai-politics-talk/anti-semitism-fanbois-perspective-t47663-60.html#p390185

Note how he was trying to make me out to be anti-Semitic, and failing spectacularly. Facts were his downfall, yet again.

On a related point we have seen over 100,000 relgious Jews march in favour of apartheid segregation within schools:
dubai-politics-talk/100-000-jews-march-favour-apartheid-t42271.html

I've yet to read a condemnation of this from eh/rayznack. Now's your chance eh.

As the first link above shows, FD deliberately misquoted Karmi and this was exposed. eh is persistent though - always running to the same slurs when cornered. One of these days he'll come up with an argument that isn't founded on fantasies.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^The segregationist point has been discussed to death - indeed, we have seen over 100,000 relgious Jews march in favour of apartheid segregation within schools:

We've also seen Islamic groups, parliamentarians, "intellectuals" and leaders praise Holocaust deniers.

But according to one's logic, that is "morphing" the actions of people with Islam and "Islamophobic"; whereas the protesters in Israel are expressing the segregationist elements of Judaism!

The short answer is: It's "ok" to generalize Judaism but "Islamophobic" to "generalize" Islam.

One couldn't make these irrational conclusions up if they wanted to.

As the first link above shows, FD deliberately misquoted Karmi and this was exposed.

I see you haven't taken me up on my offer: find one member on the forum or elsewhere who doesn't view Karmi's Antisemitic rant as anything but pure Jew hatred.

Your "quoted out of context" is getting stale. Karmi claimed Jews and Judaism are segregationist and the world is suffering from Judaism. That's pure Nazi rhetoric.

When whataboutery arguments are all you have left, the only thing to do is laugh at your failure.

Why don't you try and explain what the common denomination is for the 1000+ anti-Semitic attacks by your fellow Americans are, rather than trying to hype 3 separate attacks around the world that happened to be by Muslims. It would be interesting to see whether the Muslims were following the example of the 1000+ Americans or not?

But will you at least tell us what you think about the 100,000+ marching in favour of Apartheid? Do you agree with their views?

Cheers,
Shafique

PS - there is no debate about FD misquoting Karmi. He did and even tried to conceal where the quote was from by not giving the source. Click on the link above - you've already lost that argument. Imagining you haven't is just funny.

shafique wrote:Zionists segregationist policies and Jews marching in favour of apartheid in Jewish schools similarly are facts. Karmi points out that this segregationism does stem from a view that they are chosen people (not all Jews/Israelis are segregationist though).

raysnack wrote:We've also seen Islamic groups, parliamentarians, "intellectuals" and leaders praise Holocaust deniers.

But according to one's logic, that is "morphing" the actions of people with Islam and "Islamophobic"; whereas the protesters in Israel are expressing the segregationist elements of Judaism!

The short answer is: It's "ok" to generalize Judaism but "Islamophobic" to "generalize" Islam.

One couldn't make these irrational conclusions up if they wanted to.

What's the matter; not very good with debating using logic?

shafique wrote:PS - there is no debate about FD misquoting Karmi. He did and even tried to conceal where the quote was from by not giving the source. Click on the link above - you've already lost that argument. Imagining you haven't is just funny.

LoL. That's funny. So far, two Antisemites (you and Berrin) agree with Karmi's post vs everyone else who revile his comments and correctly see him as a Jew hater.

Karmi's comments are no different from the Nazis 70 years ago.

I'm glad you're laughing.

Doesn't change the fact that you tried and failed to justify calling me anti-Semitic.

Read it again:

Zionists segregationist policies and Jews marching in favour of apartheid in Jewish schools similarly are facts. Karmi points out that this segregationism does stem from a view that they are chosen people (not all Jews/Israelis are segregationist though).

Once again, reality shatters your myths.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Karmi points out that this segregationism does stem from a view that they are chosen people

The funny thing is that neither you nor Karmi know what "chosen people" mean but retail what the Nazis claimed "chosen people" meant 70 years ago.

You prove my point you are retelling Nazi rhetoric of Jews and Judaism on the forum today.

What's also funny is that you morph the actions of individuals who are Jews with Judaism but decry on another thread that supposedly doing the same with Muslims and Islam is Islamophobic.

I see you wade through the shallow waters of the intellectual pool.

Why the spin? You failed last time - you're failing this time. Read my quote again and try and understand it this time.

I've invited you to give us your views about the 100k+ marching in favour of segregation/apartheid in school. Do you defend this view? How is Karmi's observation wrong in light of this fact?

Cheers,

Shafique

Are you unable to read? You and Karmi have just retailed the Nazi version of what "chosen people" means.

You and Karmi are spreading the same libel about Jews as the Nazis.

Is this difficult for you to understand?

I also see you're "morphing" the actions of Jews and Judaism when on another thraed you claimed it was "Islamophobic" to do the same with Islam.

As I said, you certainly wade through the shallow end of the intellectual waters.

LOL - you didn't go back and read what I wrote did you? Sheesh (and read it to the end this time).

Again, I ask you about your views about the real (not imaginary, like your mis-quotes) march by 100k+ in favour of segregation/apartheid. Do you support these views?

Cheers,

Shafique

Zionists segregationist policies and Jews marching in favour of apartheid in Jewish schools similarly are facts. Karmi points out that this segregationism does stem from a view that they are chosen people (not all Jews/Israelis are segregationist though).

Yes, as I already explained to you, you are repeating Nazi claims of what chosen people mean.

Hence, it's accurate to say that what you and Karmi have said about Jews is no different from the Nazis 70 years ago.

What part of your views on Jews = Nazis don't you understand?

You are also "morphing" the actions of Jews with Judaism while claiming on another thread that doing so with Islam and Muslims is "Islamophobic.

You certainly wade through the shallow end of the intellectual waters, don't you?

I fully understand your spin and that is stems from desperation at your failures to smear Muslims.

Again, I ask you about your views about the real (not imaginary, like your mis-quotes) march by 100k+ in favour of segregation/apartheid. Do you support these views? What are these orthodox Jewish segregationists basing their principle of segregation on?

I do agree with Karmi on the reason for the segregationist stance of some Jews (not all) and indeed we see exactly the same extremists calling for all occupied land to be incorporated into Israel, and that Arabs should be expelled etc.

Cheers,
Shafique

LoL. You've been caught retailing Nazi views of the meaning of "chosen ones".

"Chosen one" has nothing to do with segregation, superiority or privilege. You and Karmi are repeating the exact same libel of Jews as your ideological forebears, the Nazis, 70 years ago.

Thank you for the explanation of your view of why you think I'm nazi-like. Suffice to say I don't agree with you (and I note with amusement that this is about the 3rd or 4th argument you've tried to show he and I are anti-Semitic.. and I also note your reply to the thread on the topic:
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html
)

Now, let me ask you again:

Again, I ask you about your views about the real (not imaginary, like your mis-quotes) march by 100k+ in favour of segregation/apartheid. Do you support these views? What are these orthodox Jewish segregationists basing their principle of segregation on?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:What are these orthodox Jewish segregationists basing their principle of segregation on?

You mean you don't know when you've already taken the initiative to blame Judaism?

Wow. You're claiming you're not a Jew-hater, right?

shafique wrote:Thank you for the explanation of your view of why you think I'm nazi-like. Suffice to say I don't agree with you

I assure you your views on "choseness" are the same as the Nazis, your ideological forebears, 70 years before you.

What are you disagree with me on that's based on fact, exactly?

I'm still trying to find out whether this is attempt number 3 or 4 to make out I'm anti-Semitic, and why you have no answer to the thread about whether Karmi is anti-Semitic! Perhaps because that is based on fact rather than a misquote by FD, from an article about Palestine?

In the meantime, try answering the question rather than manufacturing more fantasies:

Again, I ask you about your views about the real (not imaginary, like your mis-quotes) march by 100k+ in favour of segregation/apartheid. Do you support these views? What are these orthodox Jewish segregationists basing their principle of segregation on?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, you aren't going to convince EH that you aren't an anti-semite.

EH, you aren't going to convince Shaf that you aren't an anti-Islamist.

Guess you'll both have to agree to disgree instead of going around in circles.

Isn't eh proud that he's an anti-Islamist?

But I am impressed how the smears seem to come out straight after an Islamophobic myth is busted - especially ones that involve statistics. In this case it must be the 3 cases of anti-Semitic attacks eh highlighted, vs the 1000+ cases he had previously shown take place each year in the USA.

I am willing to concede that eh wants desperately to believe I'm anti-semitic.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:What are these orthodox Jewish segregationists basing their principle of segregation on?

Isn't it a little late to be asking that question after you've already claimed the demonstrators are basing their principle of segregation on your Nazi-derived meaning for "chosen ones"?

Do you mean to tell me you've already come to this conclusion before the demonstrators?

How aren't you an Antisemite?

kanelli wrote:Guess you'll both have to agree to disgree instead of going around in circles.

Is it really that far fetched that people who share the same views of Jews and Judaism as the Nazis are Antisemites?

I think you should provide shafique some company in the shallow end of the intellectual waters he's currently swimming.

shafique wrote:Isn't eh proud that he's an anti-Islamist?

I suppose you have to show "anti-Islamist" is the same as sharing the views of Jews and Judaims as the Nazis.

Btw, why have you not answered the questions:

How is your view of "chosen ones" different from the Nazis?

How is morphing Jews with Judaism without evidence not Antisemitic?

shafique wrote:I am willing to concede that eh wants desperately to believe I'm anti-semitic.

I would have to believe the Nazis were not Antisemitic before I could believe you are not.

What a long post just to avoid answering a simple question about whether he agrees with those marching in favour of apartheid and what the reasons are for this?

Most normal people would not be ashamed of their views. And since eh is now pontificating about what Jews believe, he should have no problem in explaining the reason for the desire to segregate. I fear he's just ashamed though.

(It didn't take that long for the name calling to start, did it? )

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:And since eh is now pontificating about what Jews believe, he should have no problem in explaining the reason for the desire to segregate. I fear he's just ashamed though.

Who is doing what, now?

shafique wrote:Zionists segregationist policies and Jews marching in favour of apartheid in Jewish schools similarly are facts. Karmi points out that this segregationism does stem from a view that they are chosen people (not all Jews/Israelis are segregationist though).

It appears you morphed Jews and Judaism. Needless to say, you have no evidence the Jewish marchers based their belief on the Jewish concept of "chosen people".

So, how are your views on "chosen people" different from your Nazi forebears; and, where is *your* evidence to morph the actions of some Jews with Judaism?

Still avoiding the simple question. The shame must be debilitating.

Stop fantasising about what I haven't actually written, and tell us why you seem unable to join me in condemning marchers' who want to segregate on the basis of race, and what the reasons for this desire are?

The marcher's were very real, and they gave their reasons for the desire to segregate:
dubai-politics-talk/100-000-jews-march-favour-apartheid-t42271.html

Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks - I agree with the religious Zionist rabbi contradicting your belief that the protesters based their belief on Judaism's concept of "chosen people":

Religious Zionism must "return to its historic role" and bring both sides to a compromise. "It's impossible to claim that this is Jewish law or that it is sanctifying the name of God," he said.

No where does the article mention "chosen people", so we can assume you are merely lying when you claimed the Jewish protesters based their belief on the principle of "chosen people".

Do you agree you were lying? If so, why did you claim the protesters were basing their views on the concept of "chosen ones"?

So you have no evidence to blame Judaism with the actions of some Jews but went ahead and did it anyway, right?

To me, this is a clear example of Judeophobia. Nothing short of Nazi propaganda - the same kind as the Nazis libel about the meaning of "chosen ones" you have repeated on this forum.