Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

Caps - therein lies the difference. Loons insisting they know more about Islam than Muslims and citing Memri specials in favour of the loon version of Islam.

Your problem is that Islam does not condone forced marriages or s.ex outside marriage. No arguments have been given to contradict this.

The political marriage of Muhammad, pbuh, and Richard II etc - all with child brides - are historical phenomena and were of their age. The marriages are consummated after puberty, again as per custom at the time.

Forced marriages though - against Islam.

Cheers,
Shafique

So is s.ex outside of marriage but 99.5% of you seem to do it!

shafique wrote: Your problem is that Islam does not condone forced marriages or s.ex outside marriage. No arguments have been given to contradict this.
Shafique

Are you sure, because that MEMRI video showed just that. Are you sayingt the video is a fake????
So you agree that islam condoned forced marriage and peadophelia 1,400 years ago, but then it can only condone it today too because the Kuran has not been edited since

shafique wrote:The marriages are consummated after puberty, again as per custom at the time.
Shafique

so you agree that a 50 y old man can have $ex with a 9 year old child.

shafique wrote:Forced marriages though - against Islam.
Cheers,
Shafique

So you agree that a 6 y old child has the mental and physical capacity to contemplate a marriage.

You know the difference between Christianity and islam shaf?
Christians find peadophelia appalling and condemn it, but Muslims resort to emotional outburts and blanket denials and anger, pointing fingers at Richard II and for the majority just condoned peadophelia calling it "marriage child " instead.

Give me a break gertrude, there are people in Christian sects marrying off their underage girls to older men and this is 2011. Apparently Catholic priests don't have so many problems with pedophilia, just the public finding out about it and the image of Catholicism being tarnished.

Richard II and Muhammed were wrong to marry children and consummate the marriage after puberty which is anything from 9-14 yrs of age, so still too young emotionally to start having se.x and start bearing children. Even in those days people knew what they were doing was wrong, they were just ignoring it in favour of politics, or whatever reason that had little to do with the welfare of the children. If there is a God, I certainly wonder why he/she would let these things happen.

kanelli wrote:Apparently Catholic priests don't have so many problems with pedophilia, just the public finding out about it and the image of Catholicism being tarnished.

And how Muslims left Islam, because Muhammed raped a 9 year old?

Why are loons apparently in a perpetual state of confusion?

It really is quite simple.

Islam does not allow forced marriages or s.ex outside of marriage.

Repeating your mistaken beliefs over what happened over 1000 years ago does not change this fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

Deny, deny, deny , huh...shafique
The evidence is right there, find me 1 video of a priest who advocates marriage with a child

I refer you to my previous comments about loons preaching about Islam (and using memri specials).

But why the desperation caps?

Why do you desperately want to believe that Islam does condone forced marriages when it doesn't?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, it seems to me that you are the one who is desperate, but you are also stupid for saying

shafique wrote:Islam does not condone forced marriages
Cheers,
Shafique

right under a the picture of a cleric whose caption reads
"There is no minimal age for entering marriage"

And right at the top is 'Memri' .

But the point still remains.. Islam does not condone forced marriages.

Cheers,
Shafique

Still waiting for you to explain what is wrong with interviews translated by Memri.

here is another proof that child s.ex is normal in islam and kran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3vfDhP ... re=related

caps - let's get this straight.

Islam does not allow forced marriage and s.ex outside marriage. This is clear and unambiguous.

Yet you believe that ín Islam 'child s.ex is normal'. And your ''proof' are some memri specials.



Cheers,
Shafique

"If" Islam does not allow forced marriage and s.ex with children, how do you explain it is ONLY in western countries and Never in muslim countries that muslim men are being prosecuted or even fined for forced marriage and s.ex with children. The only explanation: it s because sharia allows it.

This video is unambiguous indeed that islam condones s.ex with children and forced marriages

Islam and S.ex With Infants and Children - Mufa'khathat , thank you shafique for giving me the opportunity to post these very informative videos .

Islam doesn't condone forced marriages or s.ex outside of marriage.

If you truly believed Islam does allow forced marriages, you'd be able to quote a cleric in full rather than rely on Memri specials. It's not as if there is a shortage of written material on the subject... but loons are apparently allergic to facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

Is the one quote from the Quran or Hadith true, where they talk about temporary marriages with children and touching and having se.x between their thighs if they are younger than 9 yrs old? The quote is in the video, spoken in Arabic with an English translation underneath.

^Kanelli - the video above is a criticism against Ayatollah Khomeni allegedly having s.ex with a 4 year old and then issuing a fatwa explaining why this is allowed. The video is by Sunni (Wahabis, from Saudi, I guess) and is an attack on Khomeni and Shia.

It is not quoting hadith or Quran - but rather is a critique (and a crude one of Khomeni).

This is the problem with Memri specials and these types of selective clips - the purpose of the video is actually to denounce Khomeni and Shia (and is a propaganda piece against shia). It is not saying they agree with what Khomeni is allegedly supposed to have done or the fatwa. It is rather to discredit him.

The concept of temporary Marriages is a Shia custom - and Sunnis view it as nothing more than prostitution and not allowed in Islam - that is a valid criticism, as Mutaa is a Shia belief. However this specific allegation of paedophillia against Khomeni may or may not be based on fact (I'm suspicious that its not).

Cheers,
Shafique

More excuses?

No, just facts.

Loons and facts, just don't get on.

Cheers,
Shafique

kanelli wrote:Is the one quote from the Quran or Hadith true, where they talk about temporary marriages with children and touching and having se.x between their thighs if they are younger than 9 yrs old? The quote is in the video, spoken in Arabic with an English translation underneath.

Yes it is true Kanelli, in arabic it s called "mufa’khathat " of baby girls, muhammad did it with his wife baby girl when she was six years of age because he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why muhammad placed HIS [MALE] MEMBER BETWEEN HER THIGHS AND MASSAGED IT SOFTLY, as the apostle of Allah had control of his [male] member not like other believers.. (Source: http://www.sout-al-haqe.com)

The following link provides independent evidence that the above fatwah does indeed exist:
http://www.islamic-fatwa.net
In the above link Islamic scholar Dr Ahmad Al-Hajj Al-Kurdi comments on the fatwah in question. He is responding to a person who is asking whether or not the fatwah actually exists, and whether or not Muhammad committed this action. In response he says that Muhammad most probably did this after he consummated the marriage at 9 rather than when she was 6. His point of contention therefore is concerning when Muhammad did this to the little girl, and not whether or not he did it or not.
Al shafique opinion is not relevant, he never quotes anybody to support his claims , he never wrote anything and rather call any one who criticize islam a loon, with no other arguments.

Fact is sharia law allow muslim men to practice "thighing" $ex between a babygirl legs. No men is ever, or will ever prosecuted for that in a muslim country.
In the west a muslim man doing it would be prosecuted and charged for $sexual assault and peadophelia.

other examples:
Fatwah 23672:
The inquirer asks: "My parents married me to a young girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. How can I enjoy her sexually?"
The imam answers him by saying: "Do not harm her if she cannot take intercourse but you may hug her, kiss her, and ejaculate between her legs" i.e. "thigh" her, as the fatwah in question indicates.
(Source: http://www.islamweb.net)

There is also a Shia reference condoning the practice. In Ayatu Allah Al Khumaini's book, "Tahrir Al wasila," p. 241, issue number 12, it says:
"It is not illegal for an adult male to 'thigh' or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his male member between her thighs, and to kiss her."


Also in the Quran 65.4 “and those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'iddah (prescribed divorce period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. They are still immature) their 'iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens) (give birth) and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to him, he will make his matter easy for him.”
Sura (65:4) lays down rules for divorce and sets the prescribed period for divorce. It clearly says, Muslim men can marry (and divorce) little girls who have not yet reached menstruation age. This means that Muslim men were allowed to marry baby girls. This is the eternal word of god. This is an eternal law of Allah. All Muslims must believe in this teaching. Otherwise, they are no longer Muslims but apostates of Islam.

I invite you to read the qur'an, kanelli, don't rely on al shafique who has not even read it.

Marriage with a little girl for political reasons is one thing and surely very bad, it happened in western history but without $exual intercourse, having $e.x between the legs of a bay girl is totally different , it is perversion, sickness and a crime.
This is why the qur'an which was written by a pervert and a criminal peadophiliac can only be garbage.
if anyone today wrote a book like that, he would be charged for solliciting peadophelia.
you will notice that al shafique never condemns the practice , rather ha says it did not happen.

Hey herve - I laughed at the bit about you saying I haven't read the Quran. I'm still waiting for you to confirm why you couldn't quote the Quran correctly in the religion forum.

I'm wondering why you're so obsessed with this misinformation?

You probably also still think that I am DearJohn, don't you?

God is quite clear what Islam allows- s.ex outside of marriage is forbidden, as is forced marriages. Why are loons so insistent they know Islam better than Muslims?



Cheers,
Shafique

If you had read the quran you would not make those mistakes, instead you repeat the same propaganda, I suspect you don't even understand what you say.

What part of the Quranic verses and Hadith in the video confused you herve?

(BTW - the question in 'logic in the Quran' thread is still waiting for you. There it seems to show that you're the one that hasn't read the Quran, not me.)

Cheers,
Shafique

The video you posted is anonymous, non sense and does not demonstrate anything. who is speaking? YOU?
most importantly it is biased, the speaker mentions muhammad and the "pbuh" piece be upon him, if it was an impartial opinion it would NOT say pbuh.
only moslems say pbuh, and a moslem is not allowed to be critical of islam, therefore any opinion from a moslem is biased.

The links posted by cpasicum, show REAL interviews and fatwas by moslems, and they speak by themselves.

The video contains detailed references - from Quran, hadith and scientific papers (indeed, the readings from the latter were quite lengthy).

What confused you herve?

Cheers,
Shafique

Who says I am confused, YOU?, you are a clown al shafique. you are the one confused.
This thread shows all over, with links and videos that moslems condoned forced marriage, $ex with baby girls, and I have personally witnessed throughout 15 years living in the middle east moslems having $ex outside the marriage at an unbelievale scale. and the proof is in the pudding with muslims women having the HIGHEST rate in the world for cervical cancer, which is caused by the husband having multiple partners.

So you think I'm confused.

Don't change the subject herve - you're just as wrong on this as you were with 'DearJohn is Shafique' conspiracy. (Please start a new thread on cervical cancer rates, and be prepared to look foolish - Again)

I asked you specifically what part of the Quranic, Hadith or scientific references confused you?

Cheers,
Shafique

al shafique, you are trolling , I already responded.

No you didn't. I asked what specific Quranic, Hadith or scientific references confused you from the video. Your only comments seem to be that the narrator is a Muslim.

Anyway - it is clear what Islam teaches and how loons have to rely on Memri specials.

Cheers,
Shafique

do you have problems understanding english?
I told you I am not confused. did you get it this time?
rephrase your question.

I can ask you questions like that too:

What confuses you in the fact that moslems condone peadophelia and forced marriages, please respond.

What confuses me is the loon belief that Muslims condone paedophilllia despite the clear Quranic, Hadith and Scientific evidence produced to counter this loon claim - based on videos about Khomeni etc.

Now, what confused you about the Quranic etc references in the video?

Cheers,
Shafique