Forced Conversions And Muhammad

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Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 23, 2009
On another thread, shafique wrote the following:

Perhaps we have different views of what forced conversions are. To me, being given a choice of converting or leaving is coercion (it isn't a kind invitation to believe in Christianity - but a forced conversion). The later atrocities to those who chose to convert (atrocities done in the name of Christianity) are indeed to be denounced.


Could shafique please share his thoughts on another type of forced expulsion - the forced removal of the Jews in Khaybar and the Christians in the Najran desert because they were unbelievers and did not convert to Islam?

Without question, this would be a forced conversion, then, since the Jews and Christians would have been allowed to stay in the homes they lived in if they had converted to Islam.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Isma’il bin Abi Hakim that he heard ‘Umar bin ‘Abdul ‘Aziz say, “One of the last things that the Rasoolullaah sallaahu alaihi wa sallam said was, ‘May Allaah fight the Jews and the Christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration. Two deens shall not coexist in the land of the Arabs.’”

Yahya related to me from Malik from bin Shihab that the Rasoolulllaah sallaahu alaihi wa sallam said, “Two deens shall not coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.”

Malik said that bin Shihab said, ”’Umar bin al-Khatab searched for information about that until he was absolutely convinced that the Rasoolullaah sallaahu alaihi wa sallam had said, ‘Two deens shall not coexist in the Arabian Peninsula,’ and he therefore expelled the Jews from Khaybar.”

Malik said “That (Arabian Peninsula) is Makkah, Medinah, Yemen and the land of the Arabs.”


http://millatibraheem.muslimpad.com/200 ... peninsula/

and some more hadith:
Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Thursday! What (great thing) took place on Thursday!" Then he started weeping till his tears wetted the gravels of the ground . Then he said, "On Thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." The people (present there) differed in this matter and people should not differ before a prophet. They said, "Allah's Apostle is seriously sick.' The Prophet said, "Let me alone, as the state in which I am now, is better than what you are calling me for." The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, "Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them." I forgot the third (order)" (Ya'qub bin Muhammad said, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen." Ya'qub added, "And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.") - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, "One of the last things that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said was, 'May Allah fight the jews and the christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration . Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.' " - Malik's Muwatta, Book 45, Number 45.5.17


Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula."

Malik said that Ibn Shihab said, ''Umar ibn al-Khattab searched for information about that until he was absolutely convinced that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had said, 'Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula,' and he therefore expelled the jews from Khaybar." - Malik's Muwatta, Book 45, Number 45.5.18


Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: people of two different religions would not inherit from one another. - Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 18, Number 2905


It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim. - Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366


http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f44/ ... bia-16567/

So, Muhammad and Umar not only indulged in ethnic cleansing, but Umar would have been guilty of forced conversions because he 'coerced' the non-Muslim inhabitants of the hijaz and najran to convert to Islam or leaving their homes and lands they owned.

event horizon
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Re: Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 24, 2009
Simple really.

No forced conversions took place at the orders or at the hands of the Holy Prophet, pbuh and the first 4 Khalifas.

God forbids forced conversions in the Quran.

I refer eh-oh back to the opinions of the historians who have written about the crimes and punishments of those who opposed the Muslims, and remind him that the punishments were termed 'clement'. None of the historians said that the punishments were used to force people to convert - but were punishments for crimes (notably treason).

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Shafique
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Re: Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 24, 2009
I'm sorry - could you comment on why you don't believe that forcing the Jews and Christians out of the hijaz and najran if they did not convert to Islam are not examples of forced conversions but you believe the expulsion orders in reconquista spain were?
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Re: Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 24, 2009
event horizon wrote:I'm sorry - could you comment on why you don't believe that forcing the Jews and Christians out of the hijaz and najran if they did not convert to Islam are not examples of forced conversions but you believe the expulsion orders in reconquista spain were?


It would be if it happened that way.

However, the the only expulsions that took place were 'clement' punishments for crimes committed. Not my opinion, but what those who have studied the information have concluded.

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Shafique
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Re: Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 24, 2009
However, the the only expulsions that took place were 'clement' punishments for crimes committed. Not my opinion, but what those who have studied the information have concluded.


I think you're confusing your history again. I'm not aware of what 'crimes' the Jews and Christians committed when Muhammad ordered their expulsion on his death bed - but perhaps you can enlighten me on that.

In any event, your justification for ethnic (religious) cleansing is highly ironic since the Christians also justified the expulsion of Jews from Spain as punishment the 'Jews' had committed by siding with the enemy during the reconquest.

It really is amazing how similar religious fascists justify atrocities and war crimes! The early Muslims expelled Jews and Christians from Arabia if they did not convert and the Christians of Spain later expelled Jews if they did not convert - sorry, I guess logic like that just doesn't escape some people and goes right over the heads of others.

So, in what way is forcing one group of people to leave because of their 'crimes' if they do not convert to your religion a forced conversion but another group forcing people to leave for imaginary crimes and under the same conditions not forced conversions?
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Re: Forced conversions and Muhammad Dec 24, 2009
eh-oh - what have I told you about believing everything you read (or cut and paste) from your I-spy book of Orientalist Islam?

You're asking about forced conversions to Islam that you think occurred with the consent of the Prophet, pbuh, and Khalifas - yet these never happened.

God says this is not allowed in the Quran.

I totally agree we should indeed condemn all the forced conversions to Christianity that occured through the ages, and I also agree that where Muslims carried out similar conversions they should similarly be condemned.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm happy to condemn all the imaginary conversions you want to believe took place.

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