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eh - can you show us an example where a Muslim man follows the 3 steps of escalating punishment as laid out by God? Your example is of a man battering his wife and not following the instructions in the Quran.

He should be in jail. If you are right, then there would be loads of Muslim Imams justifying his actions - are there?

And indeed, we dealt with this in the threads I quoted in my earlier post - about how Islam does not condone wife beating.

Cheers,

Shafique

eh - can you show us an example where a Muslim man follows the 3 steps of escalating punishment as laid out by God? Your example is of a man battering his wife and not following the instructions in the Quran.

How do you know?

She may have been verbally abused and "grounded" before the husband let loose his fists of fury.

He should be in jail. If you are right, then there would be loads of Muslim Imams justifying his actions - are there?

Look at the high rates of domestic abuse in the Muslim world.

about how Islam does not condone wife beating.

Instructing husbands to beat their wives on suspicion of being rebellious seems to condone domestic violence.

Did you find any laws in Britain where a husband can beat his wife after verbally abusing then grounding her?

Btw, the questions you seem to be avoiding:

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

Stop speculating eh - produce one clear case of Muslim man following God's instructions and we can discuss that. If you can produce a cleric/scholar/expert who confirms that the man followed God's instructions, then you'd have further confirmation.

Relying on posts on blogger's websites will get you into trouble - yet again.

Cheers,

Shafique

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

We can debate what colour eyes unicorns have also - but I'd like to discuss a real case if you can find one. If you can't then we're talking in hypotheticals and then we can speculate to our heart's content.

I know of no actual case of a Muslim man following God's commandments of this verse, and where clerics etc have said that he was in his right and followed the required steps.

My point is that this verse actually means in practice that Muslim men can't beat their wives. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - if you think Muslim men can beat their wives, then produce the men who use the verse as God describes and then we can discuss the 'crimes' that the men said the wives had committed.

Cheers,
Shafique

What a silly question you're asking. Just look at the rates of domestic abuse in the Muslim world and Muslim communities in the West.

Watch Youtube videos where clerics and imams give instruction on wife beating - that surely seems to be a hot topic issue for something that isn't practiced.

But you're basing your belief on something you don't know. The article said the imam beat his wife and cited the verse in the Koran. You want to claim he did not properly follow certain steps before beating his wife but you have no evidence.

Regardless, I don't see it at all unlikely for a husband to be suspicious of his wife which would lead to escalating confrontations - including verbal abuse and banishment - ultimately to her being beaten - all inspired from the passages in the Koran.

Are you actually telling me that this sort of scenario is improbable?

Btw, here are the questions you seem to be avoiding:

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

A simple, 'No, I can't find one example of any Muslim man following all 3 stages as laid out in the Quran' would have sufficed.

Should you (or your blogger friends) ever find a real case, let us know.

Cheers,

Shafique

He can't give you an answer Shaf, because there isn't one. He's a sicko who would use it to justify him beating his partner.

^

Is this true, eh?


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique , I'd say more than likely, given that he steadfastly sticks to his guns over it and can't see any other view point.

Actually, my first question you're avoiding only asks what wives need to do to avoid having their husbands suspect rebellion.

My second question is what constitutes "rebellion" or "disobedience" and how would a Muslim husband handle a situation where he believed his wife was continuing to be rebellious behind his back after verbal warnings and putting her on "time out"?

Btw, have you found which laws in the Western world allow husbands to beat their wives after a verbal warning and time out?

Chocoholic wrote:He can't give you an answer Shaf, because there isn't one. He's a sicko who would use it to justify him beating his partner.

What a silly girl you are.

Chocs was right, eh can't actually find a real example. Once again, believing what bloggers tell him gets him into trouble.

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:Chocs was right, eh can't actually find a real example. Once again, believing what bloggers tell him gets him into trouble.

Chocs has no right to call anyone a sicko. So no, she wasn't right.

It just shows your desperation that you have to latch onto her comments. Isn't time you stood on your own two feet without latching onto others?

Did eh find an example then? If not, then Chocs is right.

I think Chocs is entitled as anyone else to give her opinion of the most extremist religious person posting here - after all, no one else has come out and said they believe in talking donkeys or that the slaughter of babies by men is 'an act of God' because God told them to do it. In this thread eh has come out with arguments in favour of wife beating.

event horizon wrote:I think husbands have a right to discipline disobedient wives as parents have with children.

He was either being serious and is a 'sicko' or he was joking. As pointed out in another thread, this is not a subject that is joked about in the West...

Flying Dutchman wrote:in mainstream Western culture, wife beating is no joking matter!

and someone else wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:I fail to see the humour in suggesting wife beating is acceptable in any walk of life.

If you had been subjected to violence of any kind you wouldn't treat it so light heartedly.

It is also worth noting that eh has tried this line before and Chocs called him out on that at the time too (2 years ago - same 'garbage' as Chocs puts it):

Chocoholic wrote:EH, you don't half post some garbage! And what about 'disobedient' husbands? Can the get a beating too?

Violence against anyone for any reason is unnaccpetable in todays society. Please stop bringing up these stone age, archaic ways of thinking.

dubai-politics-talk/wife-beating-the-muslim-perspective-t39819.html#p321845

Cheers,
Shafique

Yo

shafique wrote: As pointed out in another thread, this is not a subject that is joked about in the West...

No. What you did on another thread was try to be amusing about wife beating. You failed.

I thought you were becoming slightly isolated since you lost your two brothers-in-arms. I see you've latched onto a new friend.

I thought you had slightly more brains than Chocs. Obviously I was wrong. You really don't get sarcasm do you? (and neither does she)

Fail.

In the other thread, you imagined that an article was joking about wife beating when it wasn't. In this thread eh is either justifying wife beating or joking about it. I'm surprised that you're not condemning his justification for beating wives.

Your fail is as complete as Eh's failure this time round and back in 2009 when Chocs called him out.

Cheers,
Shafique

Have you found which laws in the Western world allow husbands to beat their wives after a verbal warning and time out?

What about in a scenario where the wife refuses time-out? Does that lead to step three or is her disobedience treated separately for what she was put on time-out for and is given a verbal warning and time-out for refusing time-out before her husband can lay hands on her?

Anyway, about the questions you seem to be avoiding:

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

eh - you were called out by Chocs in Dec 2009 on exactly the same subject.

Your hypotheticals are getting tiresome - if you can't find one real incident to discuss, just admit it and move on.

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:Fail.

In the other thread, you imagined that an article was joking about wife beating when it wasn't. In this thread eh is either justifying wife beating or joking about it. I'm surprised that you're not condemning his justification for beating wives.

Your fail is as complete as Eh's failure this time round and back in 2009 when Chocs called him out.

I didn't imagine the article was joking about wife beating. Your topic title was joking about wife beating, that, I didn't imagine.
I'm not condemning EH. I'm just surprised you are going along with Chocs believing he was justifying wife beating. She's not all that bright. What's your excuse?

--- Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:44 pm ---

shafique wrote:eh - you were called out by Chocs in Dec 2009 on exactly the same subject.

What a memory.

Your hypotheticals are getting tiresome - if you can't find one real incident to discuss, just admit it and move on.

Hypothetically speaking, if you were a wife to a Muslim husband, how many times would you have been beaten in this thread for being disobedient and not answering questions?

Btw, the questions you still avoid answering are here:

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

How can wives protect themselves from beatings if their husbands suspect rebellion and do not believe their pleas of innocence?

What part of 'your hypotheticals are getting tiresome' led you to think I'll address your hypotheticals?

Now, IF you can produce one real case that fits in with your theories about Islam - I'll be more than happy to discuss that.

Given you have many, many real questions about the Bible etc - and not to mention your promised e-mail to experts on honour crimes - shouldn't you spend your time on real issues rather than figments of your imagination?

Cheers,

Shafique

I thought I already provided the story of the Imam in Germany citing this verse when he was arrested for beating his wife.

But you think it's "hypothetical" for husbands to suspect infidelity and for husbands to not believe their wives are telling them the truth when they proclaim their innocence?

Seriously?

In that case, how is a wife protected from being beaten?

event horizon wrote:What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

Shaf and Nuclues, why are you beating (pun intended) around the bush concerning above questions?

The OP was clear, yet we are four pages further without answers. Where shall we look then to find the answers if you are obviously unwilling to give them?

Flying Dutchman wrote:Shaf and Nuclues, why are you beating (pun intended) around the bush concerning above questions?

The OP was clear, yet we are four pages further without answers. Where shall we look then to find the answers if you are obviously unwilling to give them?

Video posted explains it clearly.

Nucleus wrote:Video posted explains it clearly.

Do you mean the video about wife beating you posted before? NONE of the questions in this thread are answered in there.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Do you mean the video about wife beating you posted before? NONE of the questions in this thread are answered in there.

They are I'll post it again. Since you guys are always in denial, it is for other people who want to know about the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDIAN4I0 ... r_embedded

Where is the video is the question in the thread title answered? I watched the vid before.

Flying Dutchman , what is not answered in the video? It says to separate. And that was the prophet (pbuh) sunnah.

Like I wrote in my previous post, the question in the thread title. I will wrote it out s l o w ly.

W h a t...I s...A...R e b e l l i o u s...W i f e ?