Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security

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Abu Qatada. A Threat to UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
The Home Office clashed openly with judges on Monday when it criticised a decision to free on bail within days the radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, who is accused of posing a grave threat to British national security.


Not another misunderstood lost soul!

A Home Office spokesperson said he should remain in detention: "This is the argument we made in court and we disagree with its decision. This is a dangerous man who we believe poses a real threat to our security and who has not changed in his views or attitude to the UK."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... ffice-fury

Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
I'm with the HO on this one. This guy is an embarrassment to Muslims. We managed to deport Bakri (to Tunisia, IIRC), but Qatada is proving more problematic.

Anjem Choudhary is British - he shares the same views as Abu Qatada - so we're stuck with him. :roll:

These guys have barks worse than their bites though - and what Mosques and Muslim groups are doing to tackle their views is working. The last thing to do is to ignore them, but rather to give the youth access to alternative narratives about what Islam actually teaches and how the extremist views are not mainstream interpretations, and in many cases just false.

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
We? LOL
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
I pay for Police and government services after all, and vote in elections. Don't you?

;)

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat to UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Yes for the BNP.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
So you and Anjem Choudhary have much in common then - both British and having extremist views about other people.

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
I think we can include you in our little group. Its not so exvlusive.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Bethsmum wrote:I think we can include you in our little group. Its not so exvlusive.


Thanks for the invite BM, but let me respectfully remain with the majority who are against extremism and hate.

I guess it is time now for the customary outing of the BNP video, I'm sure some people haven't seen it yet and it is still as funny as ever:


:mrgreen:
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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Well as has been said before on this forum. You will be judged by your peers. I wont bore anyone with any youtube videos. You show your true self without any help from me.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Cheer up BM. Normal people laugh at comedy - and you did invite me into your 'group' after saying you're a BNP voter.

And what's with this new obsession over what others think (or what you imagine they think)? Don't you have the courage of your own convictions? ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat to UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
I dont need a very good imagination to know what people kn DF think about you.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
There you go again. :roll: I simply asked why you've got this latest obsession?

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
You flatter yourself.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
:D

Perhaps you believe 'Muslamic Rayguns' exist?

Here's someone else who gets frustrated over the issue:



:D :D



And the video being referred to is this:


Still very funny.

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Absolutely hilarious.

--- Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:30 pm ---

Just like Abu Qatada being released.
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
shafique wrote:These guys have barks worse than their bites though


He [Abu Qatada] is wanted on terrorism charges in Algeria,[2] the United States, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, and his native Jordan.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada



Suuure.....

Are you on step 3 on the Islamic apologists guide to dealing with Kufr - minimizing Islamic terrorism?
event horizon
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
What acts of terrorism has he carried out (or ordered, or assisted) then? Have you told the British judicial authorities about this - they have just released him on bail after all.

He does talk a lot, but to my recollection he denies any terrorist involvement at all. Aren't Muslim terror cell heads supposed to be boastful about their jihad against the West etc?

Your bark is certainly miles ahead of any substance.

But as I said in my first post - I'd like him deported from Britain, like we deported Bakri. We have to live with the EDL, BNP and Choudhary - so we have enough home-grown extremists to go round!

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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
The decision angered both Labour and Conservative backbenchers. The former Labour home secretary David Blunkett said the decision had left the government facing a very real difficulty: "It is an unholy mess. We are left in the absurd position of not being able to remove a man even though everyone accepts he won't be tortured, not being able to keep him in prison because his human rights trump the protection of the British people, and a government that has watered down control orders so that they are more lax than was previously the case."

The Conservative backbencher Dominic Raab echoed Blunkett's anger: "This result is a direct result of the perverse ruling by the Strasbourg court. It makes a mockery of human rights law that a terrorist suspect deemed 'dangerous' by our courts can't be returned home, not for fear that he might be tortured, but because European judges don't trust the Jordanian justice system."

The bail conditions set down by Mr Justice Mitting are draconian, comprising a 22-hour curfew rather than the "overnight residence requirement" specified in the coalition's replacement for control orders. They include an electronic tag, MI5 vetting of all his visitors except for immediate family, and monitoring of his communications. The delay in his release is to allow the security services to check the proposed bail address and organise their surveillance operation.


Abu Qatada is reported to have cost the British taxpayer £1m so far in legal costs and benefits claimed by his family. Considering that cancer victims are denied drugs on the National Health system because of the expense, I would vote that we give Abu a lead earing and divert the money to more deserving British people. By the response to his release on social media, I'm not alone in my thinking.
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
Whilst I'd have sent him to Jordan (or perhaps some other country - say Tunisia) - I'm generally against not applying the law and benefit systems to those who are entitled to it. Change the rules by all means, but if someone is receiving benefits they are entitled to, I don't begrudge them it.

Legal aid bills can be horrendous - and there have been some doozies in the past - but that is the system, and overall it does well. It is there for you and I when we need it.

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
shafique wrote:but if someone is receiving benefits they are entitled to, I don't begrudge them it.


You never cease to amaze me, and not in a good way.
Bethsmum
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat to UK Homeland Security Feb 07, 2012
He does talk a lot, but to my recollection he denies any terrorist involvement at all. Aren't Muslim terror cell heads supposed to be boastful about their jihad against the West etc?


Nope, that's what taqiyya is for.

What acts of terrorism has he carried out (or ordered, or assisted) then?


When police burst into Ismail Shalabi's flat in the small western German town of Beckum on 23 April, they instantly knew they had hit the jackpot.

On one wall a large portrait of Osama bin Laden gazed down as the armed officers scrambled through the door. There were dozens of books and leaflets in the rooms praising bin Laden. It was a shrine to the terrorist.

Another terror cell in Europe had been exposed. But, as other German agents made 19 more raids, sweeping up weapons and suspects, a familiar name emerged as one of the cell's organisers and inspirations. It was a name also well-known to British police - Abu Qatada.

Qatada is one of the world's most wanted men, the quarry of police on three continents from eight different countries. He is suspected of masterminding mass murder and bombing as a key figure in bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. He has been called bin Laden's 'European ambassador'. And he is here in Britain.

Whether he has adopted a disguise, perhaps shaving his beard and wearing Western dress, or whether he has holed up in a safe house, is not known. But for at least four months, according to reliable Islamist, police and political sources, Qatada has been hiding in Britain.

London, where he lived for nine years, is the most likely hiding place. He could also be in Leicester or in north-west England where he also spent time and has known associates.

The police are not the only ones who are confused. Rumours are starting to circulate that the manhunt for Qatada is not what it seems. In the tight-knit world of Britain's fundamentalist Islamic groups it is being whispered that Qatada may have changed sides. He might now be working with MI5, revealing the identities of terrorist cells across Europe - cells that he helped to create. If so, it would be a huge coup for Britain's embattled intelligence services. If not, it represents a major failing in the 'War on Terror'. If a man such as Qatada can hide so effectively in Britain, how can we expect to find bin Laden in the mountains of Afghanistan? As one Islamic exile put it: 'This is the United Kingdom, not Tora Bora. Why is he still free?'

On 22 March last year five men in an al-Qaeda cell gathered at a dingy flat on the outskirts of Milan to watch a video of Algerian guerrillas slitting the throats of government soldiers.

The conversation, secretly monitored by Italian police, turned to Qatada and the need for secrecy. 'If one is very important, one ought not to put oneself in danger. That's discretion. The example of that is Sheikh Abu Qatada,' said Sami ben Khemais Essid, a Tunisian later convicted of being bin Laden's top terrorist in Italy.

Certainly Qatada is being discreet now. The last time he was seen was on 15 December last year, outside the rundown house in Acton, west London, where he lived since 1993.

It was just hours before new laws in Britain came into force that would have allowed police to pick up and intern a long list of terrorist suspects. Qatada's name was at the top of it. Neighbours saw him load his pregnant wife and four children into their people carrier and drive off. His family still live in the house but Qatada has not been seen since.

It has been a spectacular disappearing act. By the time Qatada went on the run he was at the centre of a global web of terrorist conspiracies that runs from Washington to Amman and from London to Madrid. Police in America, Britain, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Jordan want him.

In Italy the Milan-based gang who praised him so highly plotted to use poison gas - transported in tins of tomatoes - on targets in France. In Jordan Qatada has already been convicted in absentia of plotting attacks on American and Israeli tourist targets. Another bombing he was implicated in cost the life of a 12-year-old girl. Spain's top investigating magistrate, Judge Baltasar Garzón, has named him as the 'spiritual head of the Mujahideen in Europe' with extensive contacts with Islamic terror cells in Madrid linked to the World Trade Centre attacks.

In France he is wanted for his close links to Djamel Beghal, accused of being bin Laden's main European recruiter. Beghal had attended Qatada's London prayer meetings. Shoebomber Richard Reid, who tried to blow up a jet, attended Qatada's weekly sessions at the Four Feathers Social Club on Baker Street. So did Zacharias Moussaoui, the 'twentieth hijacker', who was supposed to join the 11 September attackers.

It is a litany of infamy. And Qatada denies every word of it. He has denied ever having met bin Laden, despite intelligence reports stating the two held talks in Pakistan in 1989. Qatada says he is being persecuted for his views and has met hundreds of people at his prayer group. He says he cannot remember meeting men such as Beghal. Born in Bethlehem, Qatada, has claimed he is nothing more than a refugee holy man, fleeing persecution in Jordan. Qatada was unwilling to try his luck with Western justice. Since his disappearance, he has only emerged into public view once, on 11 January, to leave a voice message on an internet site used by his supporters. It stated simply: 'I'm safe, but just don't ask too much about me.' And with that, he was gone again.

But why hasn't he been caught? The French secret service believe they know: he is a spy. That is also the view of many in Britain's Islamic community. In prayer halls and private houses, the opinions are the same: 'Qatada is an MI5 agent', 'He is a supergrass' and even, as one Algerian exile remarked bitterly last week, 'Perhaps he is a Jew'.

The rumours have destroyed his reputation among radical Muslims. 'If Qatada appears in public again, no one will trust him,' said Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of the respected Arabic daily Al-Quds .

Certainly dozens of activists associated with him across Europe are behind bars and charged with plotting to create mayhem across the continent. All these plots - from Paris to Frankfurt - were caught before they were carried out.

But many observers reject the spy theory. The networks he was involved in developed over many years into a terrifying organisation, the true extent of which is still not known. It is still a danger. Qatada was too active and high profile to be an agent and investigators missed the biggest plot of all: the attacks on New York. If Qatada was a spy, they say, then he represents one of the biggest mistakes in law enforcement history. Perhaps more likely is the idea that British intelligence does know where he is and that they are monitoring his every move, hoping to use him as a 'honeypot' to entrap others.

Yet maybe the simplest idea is the most likely. The British police and secret services simply cannot find him. That raises questions about what attacks might occur in the future. 'Perhaps for Qatada it is still mission unaccomplished,' said one Islamic radical close to Qatada's followers. 'Maybe he still wants to finish his task.'


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/ma ... .terrorism
event horizon
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 08, 2012
event horizon wrote: And Qatada denies every word of it. He has denied ever having met bin Laden, despite intelligence reports stating the two held talks in Pakistan in 1989.


Thanks for confirming my recollection.

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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 08, 2012
And Qatada denies every word of it. He has denied ever having met bin Laden, despite intelligence reports stating the two held talks in Pakistan in 1989.


Thanks for confirming Qatada is a liar, like you.

But seriously, only trolls such as yourself would be bought by the claims of innocence of a terrorist.
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
You probably still think Saddam had WMD as 'intelligence reports' said so, don't you? :roll:

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
You still lying about your claim that you "knew" Saddam didn't have WMD's and that the protests against the invasion were over the existence of WMD's?

What's funny is how you parrot intelligence reports when it suits you but ignore the same organizations when they discuss Islamic terrorism.

If these same departments came out tomorrow claiming Islam is not the primary threat to European security then you'd post it without critical analysis.

You're predictable and simple minded.
event horizon
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
Why do you feel the need to invent scenarios where you think I'm lying?

The fact remains, I do think he should be deported - but as posted before, I think that he is as harmful as Pastor Terry Jones and the Westboro Baptist Church - hateful speech, but ultimately bark worse than bite.

Should it be proven he's done worse - then by all means throw the book at him and try him and lock him up. Just my 2 cents.

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Shafique
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
shafique wrote:I think that he is as harmful as Pastor Terry Jones and the Westboro Baptist Church - hateful speech, but ultimately bark worse than bite.


Abu Qatada is convicted for bomb attacks.
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
Which ones? I read that he was convicted in Jordan of plotting bomb attacks - not carrying out any.. but I may be mis-remembering.



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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
shafique wrote: I read that he was convicted in Jordan of plotting bomb attacks - not carrying out any..


I have to remember that, plotting bomb attacks is just 'barking'. :-) :-) :-).
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Re: Abu Qatada. A Threat To UK Homeland Security Feb 09, 2012
So no actual bombings then, just alleged talk and his denials? Or do you have some more specific details?

Come to think of it Terry Jones actually did go on to burn a Quran, didn't he? So I guess he's got a bit more bite than bark after all. ;)

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