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Please don't use annoyingly large fonts and if you post your (short) comments before a cut and paste job, you may have more chance of people reading what you have posted.

As it is, these posts are just annoying people and detracting from the message you want to give.

As for the subject of this post - we don't eat pork because God told us not to.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

hifriend223 wrote:(The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have love with its mate. In ………., most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. )

My name is jabbajabba and I am a porkaholic.

<hi jabbajabba, welcome, please share for us>

This is true - I ate some Bacon for breakfast last week, after 5 minutes this compulsion took over me and my rational mind lost control. I literally ran out of the back door and jumped over the fence into my neighbors Garden and banged on the back door to have the door opened by the husband of the house- "I want wife swap and make mad monkey love to your women!!' I shouted with a manic smile on my face.

Well as luck would have it he had also just had a ham steak and eggs for his breakfast so his reply why 'High five!'....The only thing though my wife had already left work for the day as she starts early working as a carer for elderly people in a residential home. Next we heard my dog bark and just looked each other clearly thinking the same idea, until the husband shouted with a big smile 'I want to make mad crazy pig love to your Dog!' - 'High five!!'

Since then I have seen the errors of my ways and let Allah into my life as he knows best when it comes to what you should eat.

I think is the same reason for most religions started before refrigeration was invented. The best way to prevent people from eating easily spoilable food (pork, shell fish) is to make it "devil" food - oh, and put in the 'book'.

hifriend223 wrote:Every creature was created by Allah for a purpose. The Prophet always encouraged being kind to animals.

By killing them in dozens every night in ramadan month,
By treating them poor on the way to slaughterhouse,
By feasting on meat

Pig is sure a lucky Pig.. most of the other domesticated animals are killed n eaten..

"Spider pig, Spider pig.. does everything a spider can..."


Islam does teach kindness to animals and respect when slaughtering. It does view the eating of flesh as part of nature and part of God's will and bounty.

A lion isn't 'bad' because it is carnivorous, nor is a lamb 'good' because it only eats grass. Man can choose to do good and use animals wisely, including eating them.

The instructions for slaughter of animals is that they should be kept in good conditions, should not be slaughtered in front of other animals, they should we physically well, the animals need to be concious and the killing is done with a sharp knife so no pain is felt from cutting and loss of conciousness occurs instantaneously (as the jugular is cut).


Here's a piece of trivia - some polynesian cannibals call the cooked carcass of humans 'long pig' - which isn't surprising given that pigs are anatomically the closest to humans amongst all the animals (so the flesh is similar). Yummy.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'vent tasted human flesh.. but pork is like any other meat yummy or not yummy depending on the way an individual takes it.. Not eating animals dont make a person good... agreed

I cant comment much strongly on it coz I eat non veg.. but I feel thats another wrong that we do.. coz unlike a lion our digestive systems or our set of mechanics and tools arent so much made for eating meat.. and dont include the cut variety or boneless meat that u get these days..

St.Lucifer wrote:I'vent tasted human flesh.. but pork is like any other meat yummy or not yummy depending on the way an individual takes it.. Not eating animals dont make a person good... agreed

I cant comment much strongly on it coz I eat non veg.. but I feel thats another wrong that we do.. coz unlike a lion our digestive systems or our set of mechanics and tools arent so much made for eating meat.. and dont include the cut variety or boneless meat that u get these days..

St Luc - we are taught to eat everything in moderation.

The fact is that humans can eat meat - we have incisors and intermediate length bowels which allow us to eat both plant and meat (i.e. we are omnivores). The human race evolved from ancestors that hunted and gathered and in all civilisations there are records of meat eating - including the Indian continent where my ancestors came from.

I however feel it is ok to choose not to eat meat if one desires. A lot depends on your cultural up-bringing - I cannot understand how Chinese people, say, can feel no aversion to eating snakes, insects etc - and from another perspective Japanese people find the idea of eating cheese or yoghurt ing (why would people eat 'smelly rotted milk products' is beyond them)..

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I however feel it is ok to choose not to eat meat if one desires. A lot depends on your cultural up-bringing - I cannot understand how Chinese people, say, can feel no aversion to eating snakes, insects etc - and from another perspective Japanese people find the idea of eating cheese or yoghurt ing (why would people eat 'smelly rotted milk products' is beyond them)..

Cheers,
Shafique

Yet japanese eat raw fish, whales...octupus...and the likes..I agree with you on these one...I hope to do so more in the future..

shafique wrote:I however feel it is ok to choose not to eat meat if one desires. A lot depends on your cultural up-bringing - I cannot understand how Chinese people, say, can feel no aversion to eating snakes, insects etc - and from another perspective Japanese people find the idea of eating cheese or yoghurt ing (why would people eat 'smelly rotted milk products' is beyond them)..

Cheers,
Shafique

Yet japanese eat raw fish, whales...octupus...and the likes..I agree with you on these one...I hope to do so more in the future..

Agree reviewer - I also love sushi and sashimi, but for most of my family the thought of raw fish turns their stomach! More for me I say!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique - thanks for bringing a balanced view on the subject. Also please accept apologies for my atheist fueled rants. I have an aversion for people blindly pasting someone elses bollocks without thinking for themselves first.

shafique wrote:

St.Lucifer wrote:I'vent tasted human flesh.. but pork is like any other meat yummy or not yummy depending on the way an individual takes it.. Not eating animals dont make a person good... agreed

I cant comment much strongly on it coz I eat non veg.. but I feel thats another wrong that we do.. coz unlike a lion our digestive systems or our set of mechanics and tools arent so much made for eating meat.. and dont include the cut variety or boneless meat that u get these days..

St Luc - we are taught to eat everything in moderation.

The fact is that humans can eat meat - we have incisors and intermediate length bowels which allow us to eat both plant and meat (i.e. we are omnivores). The human race evolved from ancestors that hunted and gathered and in all civilisations there are records of meat eating - including the Indian continent where my ancestors came from.

I however feel it is ok to choose not to eat meat if one desires. A lot depends on your cultural up-bringing - I cannot understand how Chinese people, say, can feel no aversion to eating snakes, insects etc - and from another perspective Japanese people find the idea of eating cheese or yoghurt ing (why would people eat 'smelly rotted milk products' is beyond them)..

Cheers,
Shafique

Good post.. Dint know abt the rotten milk products point understood and taken.. I'm a non veggie. but still i feel so bad when I see us killing them and its not any religious views but just u know .. I dont enjoy that scene..

Muslims in general are advised to eat good and pure things ...

So Islam has prohibited certain foods due to their ill effects and permitted all other pure, good and clean food products.

Alcohol is also prohibited in Islam, as its harms have been proven greater than its benefit.


Which ingredients are forbidden?

Pork, lard or any porcine substance
Gelatine from animal source which is not halal
Meat that is not slaughtered in the prescribed Islamic way
Meat coming from a lawful animal which died before slaughter
Blood (direct or indirect)
Any food or drink with alcohol in it (all intoxicant and hazardous drinks)
Any human substance or part
All carnivorous animals and birds of prey

Thanks

Bob: Tell me why is it that a Muslim is very particular about
the words Halaal and Haraam; what do they mean?


Yunus: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that
which is not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quran which
draws the distinction between the two.


Bob: Can you give me an example?


Yunus: Yes, Islam has prohibited blood of any type. You will
agree that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an
abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to
human health.


Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the
human being it is excreted as a waste product and in fact we are
told that 98%of the body's uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys
and removed through urination.


Yunus: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special
prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.


Bob: What do you mean?


Yunus: You see, the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the
name of the 'Almighty', makes an incision through the jugular veins,
leaving all other veins and organs intact.


Bob: I see, this causes the death of the animal by a total
loss of blood from the body, rather than an injury to any vital
organ.


Yunus: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or
the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately
and its blood would congeal in its veins and would eventually
permeate the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated
and contaminated with uric acid and therefore very poisonous;
only today did our dieticians realize such a thing.


Bob: Again, while on the topic of food; Why do Muslims
condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine?


Yunus: Actually, apart from the Quran prohibiting the
consumption of pork, bacon (pig flesh); in fact the Bible too in Leviticus
chapter11,verse 8, regarding swine it says, "of their flesh (of the
swine, another name for pig) shall you not eat, and of their carcass
you shall not touch; they are unclean to you." Further, did you
know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have
a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy.


A Muslim reasons that if the pig was to be slaughtered and
fit for human consumption the Creator would have provided it with a
neck.


Nonetheless, all that aside, I am sure you are well informed
about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form,
be it pork chops, ham, bacon.


Bob: The medical science finds that there is a risk for
various diseases the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and
potential diseases.


Yunus: Yes, even apart from that, as we talked about uric
acid content in the blood, it is important to note that the pig's
biochemistry excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content,
the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body.

Hifriend223:
Is it Halaal to eat steak tatare (raw minced beef) - or the lebanese equivalent of raw minced lamb (I think)?

How about rare steaks - which still are a bit bloody when cut?

Please give references and state whether it is your opinion or those of scholars, and whether all scholars agree.

I personally do eat rare steaks - Halaal meat of course.

Cheers,
Shafique

In islam its haram (forbidden) to kill animals Except for food or self defense.

In the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of the Prophet), it is emphasized that animals be treated as humanely as any other of God's vast creation. The Qur'an goes as far to say that cruelty to animals is equivalent to cruel treatment of a human being. Kind treatment of animals is considered a good deed in the same sense that good conduct and treatment between human beings is deemed a good deed. The following Hadith illustrates this point:

The Prophet said, "While a man was walking he felt thirsty and went down a well, and drank water from it. On coming out of it, he saw a dog panting and eating mud because of excessive thirst. The man said, 'This (dog) is suffering from the same problem as that of mine.' So, he (went down the well), filled his shoe with water, caught hold of it with his teeth and climbed up and watered the dog. Allah thanked him for his (good) deed and forgave him.'' The people asked ``O Allah's Apostle! Is there a reward for us in serving (the) animals?'' He replied: ``Yes, there is a reward for serving any animate (living being).'' (Narrated by Abu Huraira -- Volume 3, Book 40, Number 551)

Another sayings of the Prophet :
The Prophet(PUHM),told his companions of a woman who would be sent to Jahannam(Hell) for having locked up a cat; not feeding it, nor even releasing it, so that it could feed itself. (Narrated by Abdullah bin 'Umar. Bukhari)


SOME AHAADEETH ON TREATMENT OF ANIMALS:
The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) not only preached to the people to show kindness to one another but also to all living creatures. He forbade the practice of cutting tails and manes of horses, of branding animals at any soft spot, and of keeping horses saddled unnecessarily. (Sahih Muslim)
If the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) saw any animal over-burdened or ill-fed he would pull up alongside the owner and say, "Fear Allah in your treatment of animals." (Abu Dawud, Kitab Jihad)
A companion to the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) came to him carrying baby chicks in his clothing and mentioned that the mother bird had hovered over them all along. He was directed to return the chicks back to the same bush. (Mishkat, Abu Dawud)
During a journey, someone travelling with the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam), gathered some birds eggs from a nest. The mother bird's painful cries and commotion attracted the attention of the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) ,who asked the man to return the eggs to the nest. (Bukhari)
"Allah has ordained kindness (and excellence) in everything. If the killing (of animals) is to be done, do it in the best manner, and when you slaughter, do it in the best manner by first sharpening the knife, and putting the animal at ease." (Muslim)
" If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, "O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose." (Nisai)
"Any part cut off a living animal is dead flesh." (ie. Unlawful to eat. The implication is that it is not allowed to mutilate a living animal.) (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Hakim)
The Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said, "Whoever kills a sparrow or anything bigger than that without a just cause, Allah will hold him accountable on the Day of Judgment." The listeners asked, "O Messenger of Allah, what is a just cause?" He replied, "That he will kill it to eat, not simply to chop off its head and then throw it away." (Nisai, Hakim)
When you set your dog (for the chase), mention the name of Allah, if he catches the game, and you reach it while it is still alive, cut, its throat quickly (so it won't suffer)." (Bukhari, Muslim)
Narrated Sa'd bin Jubair(R.A.): While I was with Ibn Umar(R.A.), We passed by a group of youngmen who had tied a hen and started shooting at it. When they saw Ibn Umar(R.A.), they dispersed, leaving it. On that Ibn Umar(R.A.) said, "Who has done this ? " The Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) cursed the one who did so. " (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith No.423, Vol. 7)


So we are not allowed to harm animals or plants for no reason. The Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) forbade people from capturing baby birds, burning ant hills and whipping animals cruelly. All the people he stopped from doing these things were doing them "for fun." Well, as the Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) pointed out, it wasn't fun for the animals.


If we use animals for our work, we must feed them and not over work them. If we eat animals we are supposed to slaughter the animals according to Dhabiha rules which prevent all cruelty to animals and if we have them as pets we are to feed them and care for them.

Friend,

I guess you did not see my question about rare steaks (see two posts above)

I'd appreciate an answer.

wasalaam,
Shafique

salam alikum Brother Shafique

I dont know what kind of food is ( Steak tartare )

What i found in the net is :
Steak tartare is a meat dish made from finely chopped or ground raw beef or horse meat. Tartare can also be made by thinly slicing a high grade of meat such as strip steak, marinating it in wine or other spirits and spiced to taste, and then chilled.

So If it comes from Halal meet and with out alcohol ; you can eat it .

Thanks

Thanks for the reply - and welcome to the forums!

I was more interested in rare steaks - a piece of meat which is lightly cooked on the outside and raw/bloody on the inside.

I agree with you though - that if the meat is halal and no alcohol is in the dish, it is ok to eat.

Wasalam,
Shafique

Question. Are you not allowed to consume any alcohol at all, even when there is for example 0,1ml of alcohol in a substance? I do understand the reasoning behind not drinking alcohol, but surely 0,1ml won´t do you any harm. Idea behind this, is whether as a Muslim you have to live strictly according to the rules of halal and haram or is the reason behind also important? I am asking this because two Muslim acquintences have a discussion about this.

Alcohol is forbidden - but my understanding is that traces of alcohol or alcohol used for medicinal purposes (as a solvent, for example - or as a constituent of say cough medicine) is ok. Where possible it should be avoided - and certainly should not be drunk as a social intoxicant.

I do, for example, eat dishes where the sauce may have been prepared with wine, but the alcohol has been cooked off. I won't though eat belgian chocolates that contain alcohol.

I do take cough medicine with alcohol as a solvent/ingredient, but I don't drink alcohol.

To some Muslims this is not acceptable, to others it is.

What is clear is that alcohol as an intoxicant or relaxing social drink is forbidden - and as my intention is not to feel the effects of alcohol when I take medication (a teaspoon at a time), I am guilt free. If I were to down a bottle of cough medicine in one go for a high - that is definitely haraam (forbidden) - as I am taking it as an intoxicating drug.


Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks Shafique, so for you it is about the reason behind it.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Thanks Shafique, so for you it is about the reason behind it.

No - not quite.

The Quran gives us good reasons for not drinking or gambling (the bad outweighs the good), but the reason I don't drink or gamble is the order from God to not do these.

The difference is defining what drinking is - trace alcohol is not drinking in my opinion.

There are many clear injunctions/laws - these aren't really ambiguous or subject to interpretation. There are also many principles - eg eat that which is wholesome, which are more general and encompassing. Another principle is that life is sacred and that we should do what we can to save life - eating of pig, carrion, blood etc is allowed if this is a last resort, for example.

Whilst there is reasoning - Islam teaches that logic was created by God and God would not ask us to do anything that defies logic - ultimately we do what God asks us to do. We hear and we obey.

Cheers,
Shafique

Right, got it now!

I am glad that 'hi friend' posted all those hadith/verses/injunctions showing the respect and kind treatment which Islam enjoins us to show towards animals.

I think this is really, really important. I say this because everyone knows that for some reason there is a general feeling that animals are treated less kindly in (largely Eastern) muslim countries than in Western countries.

Whether or not you agree with this, whether or not one thinks this is actually a myth is besides the point. It is, undeniably, a commonly held perception.

Also, and just for the record, it is one which I share! Ok, it might not be a suprise - in the (largely) modern, affluent, decadent(?) West, is it any wonder that animals get treated better than elsewhere? Some might even remark that animals get treated better than humans! But still, the reasons are actually irrelevant...

So yes, to see actual concrete evidence of the regard for animal life -which Islam enjoins, is really really important. I guess I just wish that this was hammered home a bit more...


But one thing I would like to draw attention to:

hifriend223 wrote:(The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have love with its mate. In ………., most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. )

I don't know what the missing blank is supposed to be, but I can only guess that it is meant to be a country or geographical location. And by this I mean a modern one, ie. not ancient Babylon!

IF this is the case, then I find this incredibly offensive! IF this is the case, this is the worst way to propogate Islam.

Am being deadly serious. This is the kind of sfuff that plain pisses-people-off and alienates them from everything you are trying to get across.

And this really is a shame. Because I don't think that's your intention and elsewhere you seem to post reasonably.

burton

I here what you say - but after replying back with my cynical retort I thought about this some more and came to the conclusion that it is no more then a childish perspective and has to have come from an immature mind.

Let me digress....statements such as the above which we know to be untrue are the sort of yarn I remember hearing as a seven year old in the playground. Being inexperienced at the age you would believe anything and be excited about breaking the news to your fellow school friends.

So to sum up thats the best way of accepting such nonsense - it does not come from Wisdom and Experience, but the young the naive and the outright gullible.

Still I can't help thinking still what sort of 'dance' they were doing whilst eating pork - it was not line dancing by any chance? I have never been to keen on that as the hats look rather silly to me.

jabbajabba wrote:Still I can't help thinking still what sort of 'dance' they were doing whilst eating pork - it was not line dancing by any chance? I have never been to keen on that as the hats look rather silly to me.

Yeah you are right. Line-dancing is, irrepairably, crap. And I guess a stetson-wearing, bacon-eating, line-dancing party in the land of Dubya might be the ultimate nightmare for many people...

But like I said, I just object to it - strongly. Growing up with a mixed parentage this is precisely the kind of thing I used to hear in the playground, as you said.

The kids got it from the parents, the parents got it from...well only god knows..! But yeah same old rubbish - English/western girls do this, in English/western families they allow this...shock, horror, gasp etc...

Of course, I'm not saying lots of rubbish isn't said about muslims. It is, and now more than ever! But when I hear that, I react in the same way...

Perhaps they were referring to the dancing at wife swapping parties?

It gets kind of funny the more you read it;

invites its friends to have love with its mate

How can a pig invite another male pig to procreate with it's female? Does it kind of make a gesture with its trotter in the females direction and then winks its eye?