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Re: family visa changeover Jan 26, 2009
jhakkasbanda wrote:I was working for a private company in dubai for last 4 years. Now I have a job offer from a government company in Abu dhabi. My previous company is readu to give NOC.
I wish to wat are the procedures for changeover for self and family. and also i have got a car registered in dubai and under bank loan.
do i need to cancel visa for my family and sell off the car??


Hi there. If it is a government company or government department there is no ban. i would check though with the company in question as they will be able to tell you exactly as they would have been through this process before with other staff.

With regards to your family you would have to cancel their sponsorship before yours is terminated. This gives you about 30 days to join with the new company and re-apply for their residency sponsorship in AD.

Regarding the car, it would be best to speak with the bank first, only do this once you have a signed offer from the new company or have even started working for the new company, all they will need to do is have proof of salary from your new employer as I'm sure that your salary will still be paid into the existing account.

The vehicle would have to be re-registered in AD although I'm sure you would be able to use it for a while before transferring its registration. I would suggest that you look elsewhere on this forum as I know the question has come up before, but have no experience in this process.

dbxsoul
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Jan 26, 2009
Thank you very much dbxsoul.

1. So the means that my labour card expiration on October is my contract expiration as well?Yes, Article 127 specifically included in the Legal Labour contract document (English/ Arabic one), yes , duration of (2) years is mentioned in the Official contract that I cannot join a competitor company.

Actually sir I plan not to renew my contract to my present employer and then go back to my country for 1 month, then I'll go back here in dubai as visit visa to find new employer.

My Questions are:

2. Is Article 127 not automatically ban an employee?Or it should be with the request of the employer and proved to the court about his alligations before the ban is empose to the employee?Unlike the 6 months ban from the labour if you cancell a contract, which is the Ministry of Labour automatically emposed even without the employer request. Am I correct Sir?

3. Is that mean when I come back here in Dubai from my country the ministry of labour will not be a problem for me having a labour card, if I get a new employer? as long as my present company dont know?

4. I'm just Curios sir, if ever the employer proved to the court that the employee is positive against article 127. What are the punishment.

Thank you for answering all my questions and sharing your knowledge, you help me a lot sir...I appreciate it.[/quote]
bong suniga
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Jan 26, 2009
Thank you very much dbxsoul.1. So the means that my labour card expiration on October is my contract expiration as well?


The labour card and labour contract run concurrently for the same periods. The expiry date is stated on the card. Your residency visa as shown in your passport may be slightly different, as labour can be processed independently of labour, although they normally run for similar durations.

Yes, Article 127 specifically included in the Legal Labour contract document (English/ Arabic one), yes , duration of (2) years is mentioned in the Official contract that I cannot join a competitor company.Actually sir I plan not to renew my contract to my present employer and then go back to my country for 1 month, then I'll go back here in dubai as visit visa to find new employer.

My Questions are:2. Is Article 127 not automatically ban an employee?Or it should be with the request of the employer and proved to the court about his alligations before the ban is empose to the employee?Unlike the 6 months ban from the labour if you cancell a contract, which is the Ministry of Labour automatically emposed even without the employer request.


Exactly, Article 127 has to be called for by the employer (in your case), the BIG downside is that all they have to do is call the police and lay a charge against you, the courts will then follow the case. If you are found guilty you can be held personally liable for the loss of earnings by the company! As you are aware in the contracting and construction industry this could literally be millions of Dirhams! As the clause is specifically included in the contract the chances are that court proceedings may go against you. I’m also certain that before you leave your current employer will ask that you sign a non-disclosure agreement - just to make certain that you are aware of the consequences. The article 127 is not a labour ban, but a clause that prohibits you from working for direct competitors of the company.

Am I correct Sir?3. Is that mean when I come back here in Dubai from my country the ministry of labour will not be a problem for me having a labour card, if I get a new employer? as long as my present company dont know?


No, it has nothing to do with the new employer knowing or not knowing; when you apply for labour approval is goes through the Department of Labours computer system. The 6 month ban is in the computer, this means that if anyone tries to apply for a labour card or labour approval for you before the 6 months is up, the system will not allow it! This means that you can enter Dubai again after a month or even a few days on a visit visa, but cannot have a labour card processed in your name for 6 months from the date that the previous card was cancelled.

4. I'm just Curios sir, if ever the employer proved to the court that the employee is positive against article 127. What are the punishment.


See above, it can be a mixture of a jail sentence, a large fine, an amount for damages awarded against you by the courts as well as permanent black listing (ban)!!!! Be very careful, especially if your current employer is well known and has good resources!
dbxsoul
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Jan 26, 2009
Thank you again dxbsoul.

1. What is the exact meaning of direct competitor?What if I work as a civil engineer in construction business in my next employer the same as my present employer, but I dont affect there bussiness because there client and my client are different, hence we are both in the construction business, Ofcourse Sir there lost will not be my fault in any case,

2. Will I still be subjected in article 127?

3. What if they didnt let me sign a non-disclosure agreement, Is the article 127 still valid ?

4. What are the things that I need to take from my current employer before I leave and after my notice of non-renewal letter?

5. Thus non-competitor means the same business, the same position, the same client, the same subcontractor? what if the same business but different position?

Thanks again SIR, for patiently responding to my questions...THANK YOU
bong suniga
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Jan 26, 2009
bong suniga wrote:Thank you again dxbsoul.

1. What is the exact meaning of direct competitor?What if I work as a civil engineer in construction business in my next employer the same as my present employer, but I dont affect there bussiness because there client and my client are different, hence we are both in the construction business, Ofcourse Sir there lost will not be my fault in any case,

The law in the UAE is very open ended when it comes to definitions, the law is written in Arabic and then translated to English; as such certain nuances in the law may be changed or misinterpreted. My understanding is that Sharia Law is applied in a holistic fashion, an so the law does not have to be specific as it is in “western” terms, its about interpretation according to the circumstances. So in you situation it may mean if you current employer were to loose business loose financially through any actions that you may have initiated either intentionally or even un-intentionally; as long as the old employer can make a reasonable case the courts and police would be forced to look at it.

2. Will I still be subjected in article 127?

Yes the Article 127 that is in your current Labour Contract will remain in effect and can be invoked by you old employer for the duration specified – 2 years.


3. What if they didnt let me sign a non-disclosure agreement, Is the article 127 still valid ?


Yes, it will remain in effect. They may only ask you to sign as a reminder that you are legally bound to the terms in your contract. They may simply tell you that you are still bound by the terms of 127, or may not even inform you at all! It is entirely at their discretion, the fact that it is in your contract and that you signed is legal enough for it to be implemented.

4. What are the things that I need to take from my current employer before I leave and after my notice of non-renewal letter?

MMMMMMM, difficult. Your personal belongings; you may not take any company contact information with you as this would be in direct violation of Article 127 and reason enough for them to pursue the clause of they found such information in your position. Such information would include business contacts, price or costing details, architectural details or files, company policies or procedural information, current tender information etc. You may ask for the return of your qualification if the original documents are kept with the company.


5. Thus non-competitor means the same business, the same position, the same client, the same subcontractor? what if the same business but different position?

Already explained – it depends how the law is interpreted and whether a claim could be substantiated by the employer. Having worked as an employer of people I can tell you how easy it actually would be to find or even manufacture incriminating evidence if I were wanting to specifically get even with someone (not that I have, but how easy it actually is to do!) .....



Thanks again SIR, for patiently responding to my questions...THANK YOU
dbxsoul
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Feb 01, 2009
Hi,

I was made redundant by my company in Dubai (due to the economic slowdown) and they are refusing to give me an NOC. I had been working for them for 8 months and obviously they are now about to cancel my visa. Can someone help me with the following questions:

1. I sponsor my wife (who is working in Dubai now as well). Can she just sponsor me now instead? Will this mean I still incur a 6 month ban? [I am guessing the answer to the latter is unfortunately yes.]

2. As my wife is on my residency visa, are the company allowed to cancel the visa as then she will have to leave the country as well? [Again I am guessing the answer is yes.]

3. As a general question, why is there no distinction in terms of a ban between someone choosing to leave a company and someone being forced to leave a company?

Many thanks for any help offered.
chrismorgan36
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Feb 02, 2009
Hi,

I was made redundant by my company in Dubai (due to the economic slowdown) and they are refusing to give me an NOC. I had been working for them for 8 months and obviously they are now about to cancel my visa. Can someone help me with the following questions:

I'm sorry to say that there is nothing that you can do about this situation. Firstly the employer is under no obligation to provide the employee with a NOC, this is not an entitlement irrespective of the duration of service that you may have with the employer. Secondly, as you have only worked 8 months for your current employer a NOC (if you could get one) would still not be sufficient to grant you a transfer - you need to work a minimum of 1 full year with your current employer and still then have a NOC to be able to transfer.

1. I sponsor my wife (who is working in Dubai now as well). Can she just sponsor me now instead? Will this mean I still incur a 6 month ban? [I am guessing the answer to the latter is unfortunately yes.]

No, a woman may not sponsor a male (for residency), unless she is a doctor or a teacher -plus a few other very high level positions.

2. As my wife is on my residency visa, are the company allowed to cancel the visa as then she will have to leave the country as well? [Again I am guessing the answer is yes.]

Correct, when your residency is cancelled hers will be as well. She can however move across to her employer’s residency sponsorship, this would enable her to remain in and continue working in the country

3. As a general question, why is there no distinction in terms of a ban between someone choosing to leave a company and someone being forced to leave a company?

mmmmm.. To a degree there is, normally a person being forced to leave a company for example as he is been found guilty of a criminal act will receive a permanent ban and never be allowed to re-enter the country.

In the past they had two ban, labour and immigration, where you would be banned from working for 6 or 12 months, in addition you would be prevented from re-entering the country for a period of 6 or 12 months. There were exclusions and conditions as well as systems in place to circumvent most of these issues. The ban then was also implemented at the request of the employer, and not mandated by government as the current situation is. The current ban system is in effect a much more relaxed one!

You may well find that in the coming months the labour department revises their current ban system to cater for people who have been retrenched. I have my doubts though.

You can however if you feel your situation is different, unique or unfair take the matter to the Labour Department, as they do have the power to uplift the mandatory ban if the situation warrants it.



Many thanks for any help offered.
dbxsoul
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Feb 08, 2009
Hi, I am working in a private company for almost 4 years now. I want to know if I resign the company and they refuse to give an NOC will I get a labour ban?
Another thing, is the company allowed to reduce a salary without giving a written letter? and knowing that it is 35% of the total package? Please advise.
Ariez
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Feb 09, 2009
Quick question

I'm currently working in Media City and have done for just over a year, my company is terminating my unlimited contract due to cost cutting. Am i right in assuming that as i have completed more than 1year that i will not have a ban and that i do not need an NOC to work for another company. I'm going with a company representative next week to the Oman border to cancel my visa, will i be able to get a 60/90 day visa as the company i'm going to work for do not apply for the residency visa until you have worked for them for 3 months.
CaptainCaveman
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Feb 09, 2009
Ariez wrote:Hi, I am working in a private company for almost 4 years now. I want to know if I resign the company and they refuse to give an NOC will I get a labour ban?

They are entitled to refuse to give you a NOC. NOC is not a right to employees, but is given at the discretion of the employer.

If you do not have a NOC you will be banned.



Another thing, is the company allowed to reduce a salary without giving a written letter? and knowing that it is 35% of the total package? Please advise.

No they are not; this should be reason enough to go to the labour department. I would however need to know more about the actual contract to give you more advice. Type of contract, exact salary and benefits as per the contract, any increases that you may have received since the contract was signed etc..




dbxsoul
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Feb 09, 2009
Quick question

I'm currently working in Media City and have done for just over a year, my company is terminating my unlimited contract due to cost cutting. Am i right in assuming that as i have completed more than 1year that i will not have a ban and that i do not need an NOC to work for another company.


Media City is a Free Zone and as such not subject to the same regulations and conditions as the UAE Labour Law. In most cases moving between sponsors in the SAME Free Zone will not incur a ban, there is also (normally) no minimum duration of service requirement within Free Zones.

I would however, suggest that you visit the Media City Free Zone Authority offices and pose the question to them. Each Free Zone uses slightly different variations of their “Labour Laws” so what is standard practice in one FZ may not be in another.


I'm going with a company representative next week to the Oman border to cancel my visa, will i be able to get a 60/90 day visa as the company i'm going to work for do not apply for the residency visa until you have worked for them for 3 months.


This is illegal! The company has the obligation to provide you with a labour card within 30 days after taking “office’ they simply use these 3 months as an unofficial probation period!

It does depend where the new company is, but if they are not located in the Free Zone then you would be subject to the UAE Labour Laws and will still have a mandatory 3 to 6 month probation period after you have served your “unofficial” probation with the company. This means in theory they could terminate your services after 9 months of you working for them and you would not be able to do a thing about it, neither would you be eligible for severance or any form of gratuity; in addition to this you would not have legally even accumulated any leave!!!

And.... to make their offer look even more enticing, as you would be working illegally, you could be subject to a fine, imprisonment and deportation... or all three – for working illegally.
dbxsoul
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Feb 09, 2009
dbxsoul wrote:
Ariez wrote:Hi, I am working in a private company for almost 4 years now. I want to know if I resign the company and they refuse to give an NOC will I get a labour ban?

They are entitled to refuse to give you a NOC. NOC is not a right to employees, but is given at the discretion of the employer.

If you do not have a NOC you will be banned.



Another thing, is the company allowed to reduce a salary without giving a written letter? and knowing that it is 35% of the total package? Please advise.

No they are not; this should be reason enough to go to the labour department. I would however need to know more about the actual contract to give you more advice. Type of contract, exact salary and benefits as per the contract, any increases that you may have received since the contract was signed etc..

My contract is unlimited and salary mentioned is 7,500, yearly ticket as normal because I renewed my contract last June 2008, in October 2008 they increased it to 10,000AED with a written advise but my contract is still the same and not revised.
Thanks.


Ariez
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Feb 09, 2009
I would honestly advise that you go to the department of labour; if this wage cut has been happening for more than a month then you will have a stronger case. The only way that you could possibly try to get out of your contract at the moment (without the ban), it to prove "non-payment" by the employer.

You will need to take all your documents with you, the increase letter, copies of some bank statements to prove the salary etc.

The Labour Department may then determine whether you have a case to be released from your contract without the ban, or not ....
dbxsoul
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Feb 09, 2009
Thanks a lot for the advise. But I served more than 3 years from the company, how come i will still get a ban?
Ariez
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Feb 09, 2009
This is a very odd and grey area according to the law.

If you had simply finished your initial 3 year period then there would be no ban. But as the contract has extended you could again be eligible to be banned! I know this sounds very odd, but the law is not very clear on this. As you are aware gratuity etc is based on a 5 year contract cycle, but residency is only valid for three years, so they normally run the labour contract (initial) for a period of 3 years to coincide with the residency renewal.

The best thing in your case is to get a letter from the Labour department confirming this. Remember if you do go to the labour department you may not always get the same person you spoke to previously ....
dbxsoul
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