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Well, things aren't looking so good for the middle east, right now.

I guess that's why groups like CAIR find that their job descriptions are more and more about setting up smoke screens and white washing the actions of their fellow coreligionists than anything else lately.

But in all fairness, at least CAIR and other apologists are defending their fellow religious adherents who are merely following what their holy book instructs them to do.

Women are to be obedient to men, dontchya know:

Khartoum, 16 Dec. (AKI) - Forty thousand women in Sudan are subject to police whippings for moral transgressions each year, a figure that came to light after a video was circulated on the Internet which showed the public thrashing of a Khartoum woman.

Sudanese feminist and political figure Mariam al-Sadiq al-Madi brought the issue to the attention of authorities, the Sudanese daily al-Sharq al-Awsat reported.

The drama of the physical punishments against women in Sudan is much more serious than previously believed," al-Madi said. She said that each year around 600,000 lashes are dealt to women in Sudan.

"The situation was worsened by a 1991 law that increased violence against them," she added.

The so-called 'law 152' allows for women to be whipped for an array of 'moral' crimes including wearing trousers as in the case of a journalist, Lubna Ahmad Hussein, who was found guilty of this 'crime' last year.

According to lawyer Nabil Adib, "a vast array of crimes allows for whippings," she said, citing the excessive use of alcohol and gambling to washing one's car in an incorrect location as crimes punishable by flogging.

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/Englis ... 56575.html

Here's video of one such flogging:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_ ... r_embedded

Or from metacafe if you don't want to log on/register for youtube:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-7Qfk63 ... s_outrage/

Any real evidence for the allegation?

The metacafe link says that the Sudanese authorities are looking into the flogging on this one video. I visit Khartoum each year and the men and women there are all dressed modestly and sensibly for the climate. Women are prominent in business and government - the insurance regulator is a lady and active in government for example.

Just because Jihadwatch features this allegation of 40,000 whippings (which looks suspiciously like an earlier claim that 40,000 women were arrested for indecency, but no indication that they were whipped:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubna_al-Hussein )

Anyway, I expect much more this type of propaganda in the run up to the referendum early next year.

But note the typical Islamphobe exaggeration - one video (which the authorities are looking into) suddenly gets conflated to being an example of 40,000 floggings and suddenly become 'Islamic'.

Sad really, but hey - in the absence of real evidence, you can't blame them from trying to make silk purses out of sow ears.

(Just to be clear - there's nothing to debate here in the absence of any real evidence for the allegation of 40,000 whippings. The Saudi religious police were notorious for whipping women in public - although I believe this is now frowned on/curbed - IIRC. So much for the Islamophobic view of Islam matching reality... but as I said, you've got to feel sorry for them for having to stoop so low.)

Cheers,
Shafique

Any real evidence for the allegation?

Sure, right after you show evidence that the authorities are 'looking into' the video of the lady who was flogged.

Oh, you're probably going to supply a link as evidence of an investigation and then I'll provide the link in the OP as evidence that forty thousand Sudanese women are lashed annually in Sudan and the statement from a Sudanese human rights activist and a Sudanese newspaper cited in the article.

Amirite?

But note the typical Islamphobe exaggeration - one video (which the authorities are looking into) suddenly gets conflated to being an example of 40,000 floggings and suddenly become 'Islamic'.

Well, it's too bad that you locked this thread and deleted my one post there, otherwise we see yet another example of a news story that suddenly becomes 'Islamophobic'. Are you sure you don't work for CAIR? You seem to be doing a great job white washing and setting up smoke screens for your fellow coreligionists.

dubai-politics-talk/topic44553.html

I could only imagine your response if someone called Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers 'anti-semites'.

No, wait....

A simple - 'no' would have sufficed.

'nuff said.

Cheers,
Shafique

Could you confirm if this is what you said in the thread you locked and deleted posts from:

I find these 'guilt by association' arguments very weak. It's about as strong as arguing that Hitler was democratically elected, therefore anyone who believes in democracy condones Nazism (i.e. ridiculously silly).

I personally would be embarrassed to use this as an argument when the other side in the debate are choosing to express their opinions and present the evidence for these.

But then again, if this is the best argument one can muster, then this is the best argument.

I haven't used a guilt by association argument in this thread - I've just said that you and fellow Islamophobes on Jihadwatch have to stoop to such low tactics.

You don't have any evidence for the allegation of 40,000 whippings (which would mean over 100 each day, and about 10 an hour during daylight).

As for the one video - the Sudanese media featured it and the authorities are indeed looking into the incident.

Sudan's judiciary has launched an investigation into the public flogging of a woman after footage of her being whipped by laughing policemen was posted to the internet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... NTCMP=SRCH

And indeed, this from a spokesman:

Your correspondent Xan Rice was fair and objective when he wrote that the flogging of a young woman "even attracted condemnation in some pro-government newspapers" (YouTube video of Sudan flogging sparks inquiry, 14 December). In fact, the outcry denouncing police brutality shows the vitality of Sudanese media and civil society. In a statement, our embassy in London wrote: "The rogue policemen in question have carried out an assault which has nothing to do with Sudan's laws or with Islamic sharia. Their unprecedented brutality is their shame as individuals, and does not reflect the standards and values of police service in Sudan." An inquiry is under way.

Dr Khalid Al Mubarak

Media counsellor, Sudanese Embassy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... men-outcry

Compare and contrast. Jihadwatch vs reality.

Cheers,
Shafique

I've just said that you and fellow Islamophobes on Jihadwatch have to stoop to such low tactics.

Post articles from mainstream news sites?

You don't have any evidence for the allegation of 40,000 whippings

The 'evidence' is from the link where Mariam al-Sadiq al-Madi is quoted in the article.

You'll have to ask her for the evidence.

Which brings us back to the 'evidence' to your claim that the Sudanese authorities will be investigating the video where a lady was flogged by Sudanese police officers.

Yes, posting a different link to the same story doesn't add any more to the fact that you cannot confirm your story any more than I can.

(Don't worry, I'm sure this will escape you)

(which would mean over 100 each day, and about 10 an hour during daylight).

This is funny - as opposed to the claim that more than 550 Iraqis violently died on a daily basis between 2003-2006?

But I agree with you, if I had put any stock into the Lancet study that claimed that 650,000 Iraqis had died over a period of some three years, my views should be met with skepticism.

I have always maintained that those supporting lashes for "se.xual" crimes like fornication because of a book are the worse religious fanatics, let alone "regression". What happens in Sudan and other Islamic countries is truely shocking. The silence of the "moderate" Muslims is defeaning!

I indeed notice that posts were deleted in the other thread. Shafique is trying to shut others up! Some very curious moderation.

Islamophobes caught out in another exaggeration and an epic failure to use Google to check out the details of the one case in the youtube video.

The squirming and smoke and mirrors is excruciating:

^^ LMFAO

shafique wrote:

A reaction to be excepted from those that actually support lashes for the fornicators!

40,000?

You can't beat that!



Knight