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Flying Dutchman · Jun 28, 2010

* sigh *

The total amount of arrested Morrocans in 2007, by no means is the total of Moroccans criminals.

shafique · Jun 28, 2010

Flying Dutchman wrote:The study showing that 54% of Moroccan youth has a criminal record is only the tip of the ice berg. More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

Ok, I'll bite - please provide the links to the survey that shows 54% of Moroccan youths have criminal records.

And secondly please provide the link for the second allegation - which shows that over 47,000 Moroccans are criminals in Amsterdam ( given that there are around 68,000 in total there: http://www.os.amsterdam.nl/english/amsterdaminfigures2009/population/ )

Thirdly, what proportion of criminals, do you think, are Moroccan, and what are you basing this on? Could it not be the prejudice referred to in quote I gave above (which said 54% of Morrocan youth were questioned by Police - not had criminal records).

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jun 28, 2010

msterdam - More than half of young Dutch nationals of Moroccan origin in Rotterdam have a criminal record, according to a study published in the Dutch daily Volkskrant on Thursday.

The study, performed by researchers of Rotterdam's Erasmus University and the Royal University of Utrecht, said 55 per cent of Dutch-Moroccans aged 18 to 24 in Rotterdam have a criminal record.

Among young men from the Dutch Antilles and Surinam living in Rotterdam, 40 per cent have a criminal record, compared with 36 per cent of Dutch-Turks in the city.

Among native Dutch nationals from Rotterdam, 18.4 per cent have a police record.

The study found that once they have a police record, 90 per cent of Dutch-Moroccans return to criminal activity, compared with 60 per cent of ethnic Dutch nationals.

The study's crime statistics among ethnic groups in the Netherlands are far higher than those estimated so far by the Dutch Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS).

This can partly be explained by the fact that Rotterdam is the only Dutch city which has registered the ethnicity of criminals since 2002.

In addition, the study's methodology differed from other studies.

Contrary to the CBS, the study also included children of migrants, the so-called 'second generation' born in the Netherlands, among each ethnicity.

With a population of almost 600,000, Rotterdam is second largest city of the Netherlands. Half of its inhabitants are not native or have at least one foreign-born parent. Some 40,000 inhabitants are ethnic Moroccans.(dpa)

http://www.topnews.in/majority-rotterda ... dy-2174400

shafique · Jun 28, 2010

Thanks.

So the article says the study shows 55% of 18 to 24 year old Dutch Morrocans in Rotterdam have criminal records.

Total Dutch Morrocan population in Rotterdam in 2008 was 37,476 (that's of all ages) - out of a total of 600,000. So we are really talking about a few thousand criminals out of a population of 600,000.

Now, I refer you back to my previous comments about exagerations.

Also interesting to note what those conducting the survey said:

Bovekerk is also dead set against having ethnicity play a role in social work or sentencing. Since when can a crime be explained by origin? Is certain behavior typically Moroccan or does it come from street culture? He points to a visit to Morocco of Dutch police agents and officials , where they heard that the boys for which they wanted to get a cultural explanation were not Moroccan, but Dutch. "These boys are the product of North-European cities."

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/ ... roups.html

The boys in question were not Moroccan but Dutch. 'nuff said?

I look forward to your evidence that 70% of Amsterdam's Moroccan population are criminals.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jun 28, 2010

Whatever happened to comparing the percentage of rednecks who have criminal records to the percentage of Dutch-Moroccans with criminal records?

Don't want to embarrass yourself (further)?

Going back to the OP, one wonders what will happen if police officers actually do follow through and dress up as Jews.

After all, is verbally harassing a person based on their race/ethnicity/se.xual orientation or religion an arrestable offense?

I mean, it's completely legal to verbally abuse heterosexual white males. But it would be interesting to see how these decoys will be treated given the deep seated hatred Dutch Moroccans have for whites and Jews.

If the decoys will be videotaped or have visual/audio on them, hopefully these recordings will be released to the news stations and aired on TV or online.

-- Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:09 pm --

The boys in question were not Moroccan but Dutch. 'nuff said?

Snowball, is your point that Dutch-Moroccans are three times more likely to have a criminal record than white Dutch citizens?

If so, I totally agree with you.

Now, the question is, why are Moroccans more prone to criminal activity than other immigrant groups - Turks, etc. ?

BTW, do you know the percentage of Polish youth in Britain who have a criminal record ?

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

event horizon wrote:Whatever happened to comparing the percentage of rednecks who have criminal records to the percentage of Dutch-Moroccans with criminal records?

Don't want to embarrass yourself (further)?

Try and keep up eh. FD is disputing the figure you quoted of 8% of Dutch criminals being Dutch Moroccan - which equated to 4.2% of the Morrocan population being criminals. You were asked to produced the equivalent figures from your redneck neighbours. I see that you are trying to wriggle your way out of some work. Sigh.

event horizon wrote:
The boys in question were not Moroccan but Dutch. 'nuff said?

Snowball, is your point that Dutch-Moroccans are three times more likely to have a criminal record than white Dutch citizens?

If so, I totally agree with you.

Now, the question is, why are Moroccans more prone to criminal activity than other immigrant groups - Turks, etc. ?

The quote is from those who have done the survey and they concluded that the disproportionate levels of crime was not down the fact the boys' parents or grandparents came from Morocco per se - it related to how they were raised in Holland (they discovered this after visiting Morocco and concluded that it was a Dutch issue).

Therefore it is a problem, according to the academics, of a sub-section of Dutch youth. The levels of education, employment, family wealth etc are all likely factors - given that this section of Dutch society has lower education, higher unemployment, lower wealth etc. There are allegations of discrimination etc.

It appears to largely stem from the social background of the original immigrants - effectively little better than peasants from rural Morocco who came to work in manufacturing. There are indeed parallels here between the ghettos and gangs in Northern England - eg in Bradford, and the contrast with Ugandan Asians (Muslim and Hindu and Sikh) - the former are less socially mobile whilst the latter are now mostly middle and upper class professionals.

In Holland there are about equal amounts of Indonesian Dutch and others from the Antilles, and they don't have the 'Moroccan' problem. So it appears that the issue is not one of race or religion (Indonesians would also be discriminated against).

Therefore, the issue - as the academics conclude- is a problem with a sub-section of Dutch society, the problem being created in Holland and needs to be resolved in Holland.

In the meantime, we're awaiting the statistics to establish the % of Dutch Moroccans who are criminals (then we can compare this with equivalent stats in similarly deprived groups in the US - i.e. the 'redneck neighbours of yours' previously mentioned.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

event horizon wrote:BTW, do you know the percentage of Polish youth in Britain who have a criminal record ?

There isn't a sizeable Polish youth population in the UK. The influx of Polish workers was mainly men, and families that did come over were mainly young families (with small children).

Large numbers of these Poles have now moved back to Poland, and the kids of those who are still in the UK are still in schools etc.

Now, what % of Brit chavs (or the 'feral underclass' as some call them) have criminal record would have been a more appropriate question.

Alternatively, you could also have asked about the relative criminality by race - and asked why the West Indian community has a higher proportion of criminals. Or perhaps even looked that long history of gang culture in the UK (and looked for the common factors):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_t ... ed_Kingdom

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

60% of Moroccan criminals in Holland are officially mentally deficient.

Indonesians are a very interesting example. They intregated very well and became valuable contributors to society.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

FD - instead of throwing up new statistics, you could try and give us the evidence for the previous statistics (such as the claim that 70% of Dutch-Morrocans in Amsterdam are criminals).

But, in this case you've brought up a valuable figure that is quite useful.

You say 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals are officially mentally deficient - this is a great stat, presumably you'll be able to produce the study and from that we can work out what number represents 100% of Morrocan criminals and then finally be able to work out what percentage of the Dutch-Moroccan population is a criminal. (And this will therefore answer the third question I posed above)

Looks like we'll be able to do the comparison with other groups (such as eh's redneck neighbours) after all.

So:
1. Your evidence/study which shows 70% of Amsterdam's Dutch-Moroccans are criminals
2. Your evidence/study which shows 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals are officially mentally deficient.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

From the municipal report "Marokkanen in Amsterdam, Dienst O+S, 2006": A third of the population of youth prisons is from Moroccan decent. The amount second generation Moroccans is double compared to first generation Moroccans.

From the same report: 70% of Moroccans are drop outs from high school.
Talking about schools: many teachers donot dare to teach the holocaust anymore in classes with many Muslims, because of violent reactions and angry parents.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Thanks FD, but which question are you answering?

Can we at least work get the numbers of Dutch-Moroccan criminals from your '60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals are officially mentally deficient' statistic.

Hey, I'll even convert the 60% to 100% for you - just give me the figure for all the 'officially mentally deficient' Dutch Moroccans.

Then we can examine the evidence for your statistic that 70% of Amsterdam's Dutch-Moroccans are criminals (I make 70% to be around 47,000).

Thanks for introducing even more stats though - I can come back to those later if needed.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

FD - I forgot to ask you about another stat you brought up earlier.

Flying Dutchman wrote:In Utrecht 80% of the crime is committed by ethnic Moroccans, while they make up 8,5% of the local population.

Which report did you get this from?

(But please provide the answers to the previous questions first 1. the number of Dutch-Moroccan criminals who make up the 60% who are mentally deficient and 2. evidence for 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam being criminals:

Flying Dutchman wrote:The study showing that 54% of Moroccan youth has a criminal record is only the tip of the ice berg. More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

)

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

Obvious is that Moroccan crime in Holland is a big problem. Especially in areas with a large Moroccan population, the problem appear to be epidemic. Moreover, second generations Moroccans are 'performing' way worse, so the problem will grow further. What makes Moroccan crime even more visible, is that they specialize in terrorizing neighborhoods: harassing women, gays and jews, stealing from grannies etc. It is no coincidence decoy jews are opted in Amsterdam-West, where they can join the decoy grannies and decoy gays.
Holland 'absorbed' several immigrant groups. Some intregated better than others and the Moroccans certainly stand out on the negative side.
The reason? Of course, the racist card is still played by a diminishing minorty. The fact that 70% are drop outs has nothing to do with discrimination IMO. If you drop out of high school, of course your chances on the labor market decreases. Religion (Islam) maybe? Might well be, certain Moroccan crimes are certainly related to their religion: hatred for jews and hatred for gays. Lack of parental supervision is also an important reason. The reason for that I dunno.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Ok. Thanks for sharing your views (I'll happily come back and address these - I may agree with a lot of what you say).

However, can we get back to the statistics you threw out earlier in this thread.

Can you please provide:
1. Evidence for 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient (so we can then work out how many Dutch Moroccan criminals there are in total)

2. Evidence for your assertion that 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals (which would amount to about 47,000 people, by my simple arithmetic)

3. Evidence for 80% of all crime in Utrech being carried out by Dutch-Moroccans.

Once we've established the extent of the problem, we can then of course examine what the reasons may be. You've thrown out the word epidemic and high percentages above, so it is quite reasonable for us to check that these aren't figures picked out of thin air or pulled out of some dark place where the sun doesn't shine..

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

Those were official police statements.

Facts are that the majority of young Morrocans has a criminal record and that a third of the youth prison population consists of Moroccans.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Did they come to you in a dream, or can you dig out the figures requested or post links to the statements.

You keep saying 'facts' and I keep asking for evidence. you haven't given eh permission to post on your behalf have you?

shafique wrote:Can you please provide:
1. Evidence for 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient (so we can then work out how many Dutch Moroccan criminals there are in total)

2. Evidence for your assertion that 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals (which would amount to about 47,000 people, by my simple arithmetic)

3. Evidence for 80% of all crime in Utrech being carried out by Dutch-Moroccans.

Once we've established the extent of the problem, we can then of course examine what the reasons may be. You've thrown out the word epidemic and high percentages above, so it is quite reasonable for us to check that these aren't figures picked out of thin air or pulled out of some dark place where the sun doesn't shine..

If you have no evidence, you can just say so and we'll treat your 'recollections'/'beliefs' accordingly.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

See the links and reports provided earlier in this thread that 54% of Moroccan youth has a criminal record and that a third of youth prison population is Moroccan. No need to repeat it x times.

So facts remain, the majority of Moroccan youth has a criminal record and a third of youth prisoners are Moroccan.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

I looked up all the links you gave and did more. The Marokkanen in Amsterdam, Dienst O+S, 2006, is about Dutch-Moroccans in Amsterdam - so it wouldn't say 60% of all Dutch-Moroccan criminals are mentally deficient, it does not say that 70% of Dutch Moroccans in Amsterdam are criminals, and does not talk about 80% of all crimes in another city are committed by Dutch-Moroccans).

I couldn't find any other link that substantiated your statistics. This could be because your stats were only published in Dutch, or it could be you just imagined them.

Let me repeat the stats you stated that I'm asking for some evidence of:

shafique wrote:Can you please provide:
1. Evidence for 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient (so we can then work out how many Dutch Moroccan criminals there are in total)

2. Evidence for your assertion that 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals (which would amount to about 47,000 people, by my simple arithmetic)

3. Evidence for 80% of all crime in Utrech being carried out by Dutch-Moroccans.

Once we've established the extent of the problem, we can then of course examine what the reasons may be. You've thrown out the word epidemic and high percentages above, so it is quite reasonable for us to check that these aren't figures picked out of thin air or pulled out of some dark place where the sun doesn't shine..

I have enough patience and will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just being lazy in not providing references. But after asking a few more times I'll probably then conclude that you are just indulging in some loon fantasies and pulling stats out of thin air.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

In fact the 2006 study actually counters your stats - it says that 'only' 10% of Dutch-Moroccan 'youth' (i.e. not all Dutch Moroccans) in Amsterdam have criminal records (actually it says suspected of at least one crime). It says 40% are unemployed etc.

Therefore it is in direct contradiction to your statement:

Flying Dutchman wrote: More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

Did you dream up this statistic?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jun 29, 2010

Try and keep up eh. FD is disputing the figure you quoted of 8% of Dutch criminals being Dutch Moroccan - which equated to 4.2% of the Morrocan population being criminals. You were asked to produced the equivalent figures from your redneck neighbours. I see that you are trying to wriggle your way out of some work. Sigh.

*Yawn*

FD already explained those numbers to you.

Looks like you should go back and re-read his posts.

The comparison was between the % of rednecks with a criminal record to the % of Dutch-Moroccans.

Obviously, the % of Dutch-Moroccans with a criminal record cannot be 4.2% when 54% of Dutch-Moroccan youth have a criminal record - Dutch-Moroccan youth will form a much larger proportion of the Dutch-Moroccan population than the ethnic Dutch will and you would have to assume that Moroccans in other age brackets have no criminal records.

In other words, pull the other leg. Your 4.2% figure is way off the mark.

Still waiting, patiently.

-- Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:42 pm --

shafique wrote:In fact the 2006 study actually counters your stats - it says that 'only' 10% of Dutch-Moroccan 'youth' (i.e. not all Dutch Moroccans) in Amsterdam have criminal records (actually it says suspected of at least one crime). It says 40% are unemployed etc.

Therefore it is in direct contradiction to your statement:

Flying Dutchman wrote: More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

Did you dream up this statistic?

Cheers,
Shafique

So basically, Dutch Moroccan youth in Amsterdam (10%) get in a lot less trouble than the Dutch Moroccan youth in Rotterdam (55%)?

Yeah, that sounds believable.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Excellent, eh - you've uncovered the long lost posts of FD that I must have missed. If you can just quote them or link them so we can see where this 60% mentally deficient Dutch-Morrocan stat comes from, 70% Amsterdam Dutch-Moroccan's are criminals and Utrecht's 80% of all crimes are by Dutch-Moroccans, then we will AT LAST know what the % of Dutch Moroccans are criminals and then we'll be able to compare it with your redneck neighbours.

As for the 2006 study saying one-in-ten Dutch Moroccan youth have had contact with police - that's the reference FD gave, so I guess that is the figure he wants us to work with given he gave this study as a reference.

I agree with the sentiment of your last sentence - FD's credibility is looking extremely dodgy. But hey, let's not write him off too soon - let's see the evidence.

shafique wrote:Can you please provide:
1. Evidence for 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient (so we can then work out how many Dutch Moroccan criminals there are in total)

2. Evidence for your assertion that 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals (which would amount to about 47,000 people, by my simple arithmetic)

3. Evidence for 80% of all crime in Utrech being carried out by Dutch-Moroccans.

Once we've established the extent of the problem, we can then of course examine what the reasons may be. You've thrown out the word epidemic and high percentages above, so it is quite reasonable for us to check that these aren't figures picked out of thin air or pulled out of some dark place where the sun doesn't shine..

(You'll agree that we get the answer to 1. we'll be able to work out the % of Dutch-Moroccans who are criminals - this will show what it is whether 4.2% or another number).

So, over to you FD. Please show us you haven't just pulled figures out of ..

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Oh, - aren't FD and eh getting confused over the 54% figure which was about Dutch-Moroccan youth being stopped, but not necessarily arrested, and the smaller survey in Rotterdam where 55% of 18 to 24 yearold Dutch-Moroccans had records. As I pointed out in my reply to that post above - which you both read, we're talking about a relative handful of people here:

shafique wrote:So the article says the study shows 55% of 18 to 24 year old Dutch Morrocans in Rotterdam have criminal records.

Total Dutch Morrocan population in Rotterdam in 2008 was 37,476 (that's of all ages) - out of a total of 600,000. So we are really talking about a few thousand criminals out of a population of 600,000.

Now, I refer you back to my previous comments about exagerations.

So, let's go back to waiting for FD's explanations for his fantastical statistical pontifications (if you'll allow me to use one of your favourite words, eh). I trust they weren't imagined in a coffee house somewhere!

eh - you do realise that it's your fault that FD's stats are falling apart - if you hadn't insisted we compare the redneck criminality rates with that of the Dutch-Morrocans, we wouldn't have to insist that FD produces the numbers to back up his fantastical pronouncements. I'm sure FD will thank you for that. I can imagine him muttering into his lager... 'with friends like that'..

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jun 29, 2010

Sorry snowball.

But I am still waiting for you to provide the % of Dutch Moroccans with a criminal background.

The study in Rotterdam revealed that 55% of Dutch Moroccan youth had a criminal record - three times higher than ethnic Dutch citizens and higher than other immigrant and minority groups.

Perhaps the blame can be largely attributed to Moroccans themselves ?

After all, no one here in the States blames the Gubmint for the reason why Cleetus leaves his tractor equipment scattered throughout the yard (Oops, nothing personal Snowball, I'm sure you aren't trashy if you do that too).

eh - you do realise that it's your fault that FD's stats are falling apart - if you hadn't insisted we compare the redneck criminality rates with that of the Dutch-Morrocans, we wouldn't have to insist that FD produces the numbers to back up his fantastical pronouncements. I'm sure FD will thank you for that. I can imagine him muttering into his lager... 'with friends like that'..

Over active imagination?

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

Patience young one.

When FD provides the figures to back up fantastical statistical pontification number 1, we'll have the figures for the total numbers of Dutch-Moroccan criminals, then we'll divide that figure by total numbers of Dutch-Moroccans and we'll have the figure you're after. Then we can compare that % with your redneck neighbours (btw how is your counting coming along - don't forget to count Billybob and all his cousins..)

So, just in case FD is left confused by which fantastical statistical pontifications we're referring to (he has developed a habit of producing new stats everytime he's asked for evidence), here is the list again:

the ever patient actuary wrote:Can you please provide:
1. Evidence for 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient (so we can then work out how many Dutch Moroccan criminals there are in total)

2. Evidence for your assertion that 70% of Dutch-Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals (which would amount to about 47,000 people, by my simple arithmetic)

3. Evidence for 80% of all crime in Utrech being carried out by Dutch-Moroccans.

Once we've established the extent of the problem, we can then of course examine what the reasons may be. You've thrown out the word epidemic and high percentages above, so it is quite reasonable for us to check that these aren't figures picked out of thin air or pulled out of some dark place where the sun doesn't shine..

Flying Dutchman · Jun 29, 2010

All numbers have been referenced in previous posts. If for some people this is not enough, NMP. I put some value in what police chiefs in Amsterdam and Utrecht say.

As for the 54%, the report speaks of "geregistreerde criminaliteit". Thats registered criminality. So, yes, the majority of Moroccan youth has a criminal record and a third of youth prisoners is Moroccan (in 2006, so this is most probably higher now). Those are the numbers I work with and are documented/researched. I really don't care for the minority of ostriches who refuse to see there is a huge problem with (mainly) second generation Moroccans. Luckily, in Holland those are almost extinct, or perhaps totally extinct as I haven't heard a person lately saying that Moroccan crime is not a huge problem (mainly in the big cities).

There is huge problem with Moroccan crime and its causes are probably religion and culture. Thats just my interpretation. What stands out is their hate crimes against jews and gays en complete disrepect for our beautiful blond women by harassing them.

shafique · Jun 29, 2010

I looked again. I couldn't see any numbers for the fantastical statistical claims you made.

Let's see if we can approach this bit by bit.

How many mentally deficient Dutch-Moroccan criminals make up the 60% figure you quoted?

(Is it 3? 4? 24? 89?)

When you give us this figure, we can then work out what number makes up 100% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals.

Either that, or you were just bluffing when you said:

Flying Dutchman wrote:60% of Moroccan criminals in Holland are officially mentally deficient.

Or perhaps you are just exaggerating and plucking figures out?

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 30, 2010

The police is not alone stating that the IQ of Moroccans is a problem.

Don't want to reference too many Dutch references but:

http://www.cot.nl/nl/productmenu/Rapporten/Criminele%20Marokkaanse%20jongens.pdf

More reports and researchers show the same:

veel Marokkaanse jongens psychische mankementen
vertonen of kunnen worden
gerekend tot de categorie Licht Verstandelijk
Gehandicapten (LVG): dat zijn
volgens de meest eenvoudige definitie
mensen met een IQ tussen 60 en 85.

Ya'ani: many Moroccan youth can be counted as Lightly Mentally Handicapped.

So, the majority of Moroccan youth have a criminal record, many Moroccan youth are mentally handicapped and 80% of the crime in Utrecht is done by Moroccans (according to the Utrecht police chief that is).

shafique · Jun 30, 2010

Flying Dutchman wrote:The police is not alone stating that the IQ of Moroccans is a problem.

Well, you should therefore not have any problem in providing figures then. I simply want to know how many people made up the 60% in your quote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:60% of Moroccan criminals in Holland are officially mentally deficient.

The quote you gave only said 'many boys' not 60% of Dutch-Morroccans are officially mentally deficient. (And I took the trouble to put the whole pdf through Google translate, and there were no figures in it - just this passing reference to 'many boys/youth' having light mental incapacity.

Please try and play fair.

Look, if you just pulled the 60% figure out of thin air (I'm being polite), just admit it and then we can look for another source for the total number Dutch-Moroccan criminals. I said early on that I suspected you were just applying Loon Exaggeration techniques - and it appears that I wasn't wrong. Eh will be disappointed - he was so looking forward to finding out what the % of Dutch-Morrocans who are criminals were!

HOWEVER, if you DO have a source which says 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals are mentally deficient - then let us know how many were counted in this 60%!!!

Was it 3, 4, 8 or 3 million? (You can phone a friend)

Are you related to the Utrecht police chief (or do you share a secret handshake) - or does he back up his statements/beliefs with little things like evidence/numbers?

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jun 30, 2010

Who is 'we' ?

shafique · Jun 30, 2010

eh and I - (You do realise that it's just you two and myself who are reading this thread) - eh has asked me to make good on my supposition that the rates of criminality amongst his redneck neighbours is higher than amongst the Dutch-Moroccan population.

You have thrown out at least 3 sets of fantastical statistical pronouncements that until now look suspiciously like you've just made them up (at worst) or succumbed to loon exaggeration (at best).

So, are you going to ask me another random question or are you just going to avoid answering direct questions about what underlies the %s you've presented as fact but appear to be nothing more than wishes.

Can you at least provide the numbers behind the 60% mentally deficient Dutch-Moroccans, 70% Amsterdam Dutch-Moroccan criminals and 80% crimes in Utrecht?

Here, I'll even help you out with the first one- you can just cut and paste the answers and fill in the blanks with the numbers and the references:

Here you go shafique, here's the numbers and evidence you ask for:
1. The evidence for my statement that 60% of Dutch-Moroccan criminals being officially mentally deficient is [insert reference which shows 60% figure and relates to Dutch-Moroccan criminals] and the number of criminals in his group was [insert number that made up this 60%]

Can't make it easier.

If you just imagined the figures, you should just admit it.

Cheers,
Shafique

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