Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

shafique · Jul 18, 2012

From today on BBC:

Drinking alcohol, even in moderation, 'a dementia risk'
By Michelle Roberts
Health editor, BBC News online

Drinking even "moderate" amounts of alcohol increases dementia risk, US research suggests.

The findings, presented at an international conference, challenge the notion that some alcohol could be good for ageing brains
..
"These researchers found that in older people, even moderate drinking may have a harmful effect, in contrast to some previous research suggesting that moderate drinking may bring benefits.
..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18856658

Cheers,
Shafique

Berrin · Jul 18, 2012

Sure i believe it is, as neurons cannot regenerate themselves while I believe continous alcohol intake damages the functioning of glial cells as well.

Frequentflier · Jul 18, 2012

every study that has been done so far since the 1980s supports these findings. Alcohol dissolves the fats present in abundance in the cell wall of particularly neural cell, even in very small quantities

shafique · Jul 18, 2012

Now, where have I read that alcohol isn't good for you and whilst has some small benefits, the harm out weighs the good - and thus we should not drink. Hmm...

Cheers,

Shafique

zubbber · Jul 18, 2012

Poor poor alcholics, only after they start hallucinating , they realize this , but its too late then

kanelli · Jul 18, 2012

Actually, that's not true, drinking alcohol moderately can be beneficial for health. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

Moderately is key

shafique · Jul 18, 2012

kanelli - the article says this latest research says even in moderation it is an issue, especially for older people. But then, more is certainly worse than moderate amounts, that's for sure.

Cheers,

Shafique

kanelli · Jul 18, 2012

If I'm old and have heart disease, or high blood pressure, or type 2 diabetes etc., I don't think I'm going to worry about the odd gin and tonic or glass of wine.

Frequentflier · Jul 19, 2012

kanelli ,

Many many studies have been done on the harmful effects of alcohol on the brain.
The studies that you are talking about have looked at the effects of alcohol on the cardiovascular system. These are two different things. Indeed in moderation alcohol might prevent against cardio-vascular disease and so prolong life by a few years, but damage the Central Nervous System leading to an impairment of intellectual function.

Here are some important guidelines by the NIH, N.America: http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

You will also see that the effects of alcohol are different in men and women because of the different metabolic pathways. Women, it would seem, are more severely affected by smaller quantities.

zubbber · Jul 19, 2012

Well in kanelli's defense, the number of studies out there that are "for" and "against" are almost equal, sure the results of the studies change dramtically over time, and plus there is always a probability of sampling errors , and the sample not representing the entire population , Even though I am of the opinion that alcohol is Devil Juice , its up to the person to make a judgement.

Chocoholic · Jul 19, 2012

Bah all my grandparents either lived to late 80's, early 90's all of them loved their tipple, they were all healthy and nothing wrong with them. Dementia is pre-disposed genetically.

zubbber · Jul 19, 2012

Well given the right stimulus anyone can succumb from dementia , no doubt genetics plays a big role , but often triggers are foreign substances that alter physiology negatively , so the risk can't be completely ignored

evitav · Jul 19, 2012

shafique wrote:Now, where have I read that alcohol isn't good for you and whilst has some small benefits, the harm out weighs the good - and thus we should not drink. Hmm...

The Qoran? Having been in Dubai, does the Qoran also warn against gluttony?

shafique · Jul 19, 2012

^Actually, Islam does indeed teach about 'everything in moderation' and following the 'middle way'.

All Muslims are aware of the teaching of the prophet that a believer when he eats a meal, should judge the amount he eats and drinks so that his stomach is one third food, one third water and one third air.

That is one instruction that goes completely against the gluttony we observe today! And quite apt just before Ramadhan. (Many pious Muslims do actually follow that instruction, and they don't have weight issues)

Cheers,

Shafique

evitav · Jul 19, 2012

shafique wrote:That is one instruction that goes completely against the gluttony we observe today! And quite apt just before Ramadhan. (Many pious Muslims do actually follow that instruction, and they don't have weight issues)

I understand that pious Muslims don't drink alcohol, but many Muslims don't follow that instruction. Would you say Muslims with weight problems aren't very pious?

shafique · Jul 19, 2012

I was quite clear on what I said.

God tells Muslims not to drink alcohol because the harm outweighs the good. Muslims choose whether to follow these instructions. If a Muslim chooses to disobey a direct commandment, then they aren't actually following Islam's teachings.

The Hadith about eating isn't really related to faith - and is more like sound advice. Those Muslims choosing to go against this advice and not doing enough exercise or over-eating are just guilty of not following good advice. I said that 'many pious Muslims' not all. There is no commandment in the Quran that 'you shall not be overweight' or 'you should try and spin what other posters say'

Those who do follow that advice, should find it a sound philosophy that is good for the health. One third air is quite wise - as it teaches you to stop eating before you are full.

Cheers,
Shafique

evitav · Jul 19, 2012

shafique wrote:There is no commandment in the Quran that 'you shall not be overweight'

This is what surprises me. Compared to (moderate) use of alcohol, gluttony is at least as costly and dangerous for the person and for society. I don't want to encourage the use of alcohol nor do I mind some meat on the bones, but it doesn't seem logical.

shafique · Jul 19, 2012

Chocoholic wrote:Bah all my grandparents either lived to late 80's, early 90's all of them loved their tipple, they were all healthy and nothing wrong with them. Dementia is pre-disposed genetically.

I'm reminded of the stories of grandparents who smoked into their nineties etc or the converse, how health fanatics die suddenly and young. You do tend to find exceptions - this research was showing the risks of dementia increasing from even moderate amounts of drink.

Increased risk does not mean everyone will get dementia.

Cheers,

Shafique

kanelli · Jul 19, 2012

FF, if someone has a genetic predisposition for heart disease, and moderate alcohol intake can add a few more years - that's a good thing. In most cases the person still succumbs to heart disease before any possible onset of dementia. Women metabolize alcohol differently than men and are more sensitive to its effects in general. I've had alcoholics in my family and none of them had or died from dementia.

The real danger of alcohol is its abuse. People act like total idiots when drunk, and they are more likely to be violent or abusive. Even in Dubai you see people killing each other in drunken fights.

Nucleus · Jul 19, 2012

It is not recommended that you begin drinking or drink more often just to decrease your risk for heart disease.

The American Heart Association and other experts say there are much more effective ways to prevent heart disease.... There is much more scientific proof to support these tried and true methods than to support drinking moderate amounts of alcohol.

Anyone who has active heart disease or heart failure should talk to their doctor before drinking alcohol. Alcohol can make heart failure and other heart problems worse.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 001963.htm

kanelli · Jul 19, 2012

See, one week they say one thing, the next they say another. As zubbber said, they have research going both ways.

Nucleus · Jul 19, 2012

If you don't read the sensationalized news articles then actual research is saying the same thing from a very long time. It reduces bad colestrol but it also worsens other heart problems. There are other less risky ways to reduce colestrol and flavonoids in red wine comes from red grapes, it has nothing to do with alcohol.

kanelli · Jul 20, 2012

That's offensive Nucleus. When is the last time you read and critiqued an actual research article from a medical journal? Seems you rely on secondary sources like most other people. The fact is, there plenty of studies out there that say that moderate alcohol consumption can have health benefits for some people.

Does the Quran say anything about smoking Shisha?

Nucleus · Jul 20, 2012

kanelli wrote:That's offensive Nucleus.

Sorry, it was not my intention.

kanelli wrote:When is the last time you read and critiqued an actual research article from a medical journal?

Last year, but never critiqued an article from medical journal.

kanelli wrote:Seems you rely on secondary sources like most other people.

I guess mostly, but if it matters I check other sources. My point was most news reduce the news to a particular point, and remove some relevant information in the actual research. Somebody in my class did a presentation related to pregnancy, which was 10 years ago, and they referenced American Heart Association. Even at that time they recommended other alternatives.

kanelli wrote:The fact is, there plenty of studies out there that say that moderate alcohol consumption can have health benefits for some people.

Yup, as mentioned, it does reduce colestrol and flavonoids from red grapes are beneficial in red wine.

kanelli wrote:Does the Quran say anything about smoking Shisha?

Explicitly it only mentioned intoxicants, shisha is not an intoxicant. But if it has bad affects on people and society it can be extended to shisha through fiqh.

kanelli · Jul 20, 2012

No worries Nuc.

My guess is that alcohol is mentioned in the Quran because intoxication creates terrible social behaviour, not because science shows that people will become ill with diseases because of alcohol consumption. If the science was know, then smoking would also have been on the prohibited list.

shafique · Jul 20, 2012

Smoking isn't banned in Islam, but intoxicants are.

Caffeine is also a drug and a stimulant, but it isn't banned - and nicotine is similarly not banned. However there are general principles that we shouldn't harm ourselves. I personally don't smoke - but it is not from a religious perspective, just a family one initially and now by choice.

Also, smoking wasn't a widespread habit in the 7th century (not sure whether Tobacco was being smoked in the Americas back then - but it would have only been there if it was). So there wouldn't have been a point of reference for banning nicotine specifically.

Cheers,

Shafique

kanelli · Jul 20, 2012

If a divine knowledge of science and mechanisms of disease was known when the Quran was written, then anything containing nicotine and caffeine should have also been banned in the Quran.

In Quranic times the average human lifespan was much shorter than today, so people wouldn't necessarily see the effects of long-term heavy drinking or smoking to be able to make conclusions. Of course, they didn't have the adequate tools to research as in-depth as is possible today.

Nucleus · Jul 20, 2012

kanelli wrote:My guess is that alcohol is mentioned in the Quran because intoxication creates terrible social behaviour

That is correct, very close to main reason. It is one of the main reason. And it doesn't use the word alcohol, it specifically says intoxicatants, so that covers any other substances with similar effects.

kanelli wrote:not because science shows that people will become ill with diseases because of alcohol consumption.

It does say in another place that it has more haram than good, but doesn't go into the details. Quran have basic and few prohibitions; it is sunnah to keep the teeth clean, which has many health benefits, but Quran doesn't explicitly mention it or has any prohibition against bad dental hygiene. But it is sunnah though, to eat healthy and keeping good hygiene.

rayznack · Jul 20, 2012

1/3 of all cancer diagnoses are said to be caused by smoking. Smoking is no doubt the biggest killer; far worse than alcohol.

Nucleus wrote:That is correct, very close to main reason. It is one of the main reason. And it doesn't use the word alcohol, it specifically says intoxicatants, so that covers any other substances with similar effects.

What is interesting is that intoxicants are products of Satan according to the Koran yet Paradise has running rivers of wine/intoxicants. Go figure, I suppose (does Satan get a permission slip to enter Paradise every month to replenish the rivers of Paradise?).

Nucleus · Jul 20, 2012

rayznack wrote:What is interesting is that intoxicants are products of Satan according to the Koran

Maybe you are misunderstanding something, can you get the exact verse?

rayznack wrote:yet Paradise has running rivers of wine/intoxicants

Wine in paradise won't intoxicate.

--- Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:25 pm ---

rayznack wrote:1/3 of all cancer diagnoses are said to be caused by smoking.

Hence, it is considered, minimum, makrooh by most scholars.

Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

Alcohol: Dementia Risk

Go To

Dubai Discussions

Dubai Expat Forums

Dubai Business

Dubai Tech Discussions

Dubai Classifieds