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So much for justice

InDubai wrote:As I've heard the guy who has started the fight by punching the Canadian man who is not an Arab by the way, is in the army and has been fully trained how to punch and where to punch to knock out.

And I heard these killers were trained by MOSSAD!

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:58 pm ---

blueshift wrote:BM is comming down on the side of the bullies as usual

Well you sure seem to know all about me, don't you?

If you've ever read about similar incidents in the news, a single blow to the back of the head does result in death from time to time

May be with a steel bar but highly unlikely from a 'punch' delivered to the back of the head. You are more likely to dislocate your nuckle.

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:02 pm ---

Most people would have given up in before three years.

From the sentence handed down, they should have.

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:05 pm ---

It is dangerous in this country and nobody should be here unless they are being properly compensated

.

I'll bear that in mind when I next visit Ikea.
You becareful out there.

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:08 pm ---

InDubai wrote:I wonder if the guy in army who has abused his knowledge of how and where to beat, looses his job in army? Would anybody know the law in UAE?

If the man involved was in the army then he will be dealt with by a Military Court Martial if his employers see fit.

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:08 pm ---

Elissa1984 wrote:So much for justice

I agree! I would have had them shot at dawn!

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:12 pm ---

Chocoholic wrote:Well I just wonder what sort of 'men' these are? If they behave this way in front of their children in public, attacking complete strangers, what on earth do they do at home when someone ticks them off? Makes you wonder. I have no doubt that one day they'll pick on the wrong person, people like that usually do. They're nothing more than bullies and thugs, with no consideration for anyone else and they know they can get away with it.

And now you're just getting carried away with yourself.

If a boxer can render someone unconscious with a blow to the face, the same can be done with a blow to the back of the head. To get hit or punched hard in the head will cause the brain to rock back and forth within the skull. In doing so the brain is put at serious risk of bruising. The body has a natural defense system - the person falls unconscious, allowing their body to become horizontal and stable, thus restabilizing the brain to keep it safe from bruising and damage.

Then it must be just the fights I have witnessed in my time because I still can't see how someone could render a person unconcious by standing two feet behind them and delivering a single blow.

They don't make men like they used to.

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:22 pm ---

Bora Bora wrote:If a boxer can render someone unconscious

Was he a boxer and in the army too?

--- Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:36 pm ---

Bora, I was once kicked in the head by a 17stone man when I was watching TV. He got lucky as it was a good programme and I was distracted. He didn't even stun me. There was a small trickle of blood where my earing pierced the side of my head.

Admittedly, he didn't have his shoes on at the time

You can render someone unconscious with a blow to the side of the neck if you hit the cartoid artery disrupting the blood flow to the brain. There are indeed ways to knock someone out with a blow to the back of the head/neck, which is why these moves are illegal in boxing matches and martial arts. How a person reacts to such a blow is individual dependent on their physiology, because not everyone is the same and some people are weaker than others. It would be rare, but certainly not impossible and especially if the guy knew what he was doing.

Ah so he was a martial arts expert too! So this wasnt a run of the mill Mr Emirati we are dealing with here is it? A.trained killer in the martial arts! LOL

I didn't say that. I'm just saying that it is possible. It was someone else that said he was a military guy. I really don't care, whet they did was awful and they deserve to be punished.

Well i hope you can see how the rumour mill is going into overdrive! From hand bags at 20 paces we have trained killers roaming around Ikea threatening to kill anyone who pinches their seat. Isnt there anything more exciting going on in Dubai at the moment? Nothing worthy of getting excited about? No breaches of anyones human rights or anything?

Despite the extreme double standard in this country, at least the perpetrators finally got something - a month in prison. Hopefully they won't be able to pull some strings and get an early release.

This should make them think twice before they knock someone unconcious or break the jaw of a pregnant woman again, even if it is only foreigners.

BM seems to regard this kind of violence against unwilling victims as a bit of harmless fun. That's odd considering how opposed she was to the idea of kids in combat sports even though there are no victims in combat sports. Maybe being Emerati excuses a lot.

blueshift wrote:Despite the extreme double standard in this country, at least the perpetrators finally got something - a month in prison. Hopefully they won't be able to pull some strings and get an early release.

I'm not sure about the UAE system, but if it's anything like the UK they will have been released immediately, time is halved because of good behaviour and time in custody taken into consideration and then it's just not worth processing them through the system.

--- Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:43 pm ---

blueshift wrote:This should make them think twice before they knock someone unconcious or break the jaw of a pregnant woman again, even if it is only foreigners.

Well, if you believe all that you read.

--- Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:52 pm ---

blueshift wrote:BM seems to regard this kind of violence against unwilling victims as a bit of harmless fun. That's odd considering how opposed she was to the idea of kids in combat sports even though there are no victims in combat sports. Maybe being Emerati excuses a lot.

I think they should have moved in the first place. After all the Emiratis were there first and I don't think it unreasonable to ask them to move. Whatever took place then is anyone's guess. It is reported that the woman said she couldn't move because she was pregnant. If that is the case what was she doing shopping in Ikea anyway? Why couldn't she move? She was pregnant and not ill.
I'm not a big believer in combat sports for children, that is correct.
As for being Emirati excuses a lot, well I prefer to look at the story. It just doesn't ring true to me. I simply don't believe that a 52 year old man would punch a pregnant woman to the ground, twice.
I believe it has been hyped up out of all proportion. I'm not saying some sort of fracas didn't take place but not of the level you would like to believe.

May be you want to believe it because you don't like the locals. Personally, I've never had a problem with them and find most of them very polite.
Sorry if that doesn't fit your profile.

Bethsmum ,

Bethsmum wrote: think they should have moved in the first place. After all the Emiratis were there first and I don't think it unreasonable to ask them to move.

May be you want to believe it because you don't like the locals..

Whoa!!!! How did you come to the conclusion that the Emiratis were there first? The couple were already sitting down at the table and the Emiratis walked over to them and told them to move, so how could the Emiratis have been there first? There were several stories about the incident and if I recall, Mr Emirati wanted two tables together because of the number of people that were with him.

How do you mean "all the Emiratis were there first" as in this is their country, because they weren't there first in Ikea. If you are of the mind that it is their country, putting aside the violence that took place, if you were in Dubai at a cafe or restaurant and you weren't quite finished with your meal and an Emirati told you to move because s/he wanted your table, would you be so eager to oblige? On the flip side, if you were in a restaurant in the UK and there were no tables and you saw a couple that appeared not to be "British" or didn't have a British accent, would you go over to them and tell them to move so you could have the table?

I can't believe you are making an argument in favor of the Emirati in spite of the fact that your exposure to Emiratis is extremely limited. This guy has to be high up on the ladder to get away with a small fine and a one month sentence, which he will probably never serve, and for it to take over 2 years for the case to be heard.

The accused was never held in detention, and there is no such thing as getting out for "good behavior". This is Dubai, not the UK. And why do you find it impossible for a 52 year old Arab man incapable of punching a pregnant woman? Again, you have no idea what goes on in Dubai.

You did however, confirm that you find "most" of them very polite, but again that's based on limited exposure. That leaves room for those that aren't and I would say that's where the accused fits in.

This has nothing to do with liking or disliking locals. It has to do with "Dubai is what it is".

Well I'm only reading what is in the papers Bora. If the Emiratis were there first and the kids were sitting at the table then what gives then what gives the couple the right to sit down at their table?
If that happened to me in my local MacDonalds in the UK and two foreigners decided to help themselves to my table, I'd be telling them to do one, too.

The woman's husband, who is also Canadian, added: "We had collected our food and went to sit at a table with 12 chairs around it near to the window. The first defendant then came over and asked me to move tables saying they had already reserved the table and pointed to his three children who were sitting at the other end of the table.

"I told him that I would finish my food then leave. I added that there were many other empty tables he could use."

That piece was in one of the related pieces in 7days, by the way.
Who knows what was said after that? I don't, nor do you.

--- Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:30 am ---

I can't believe you are making an argument in favor of the Emirati in spite of the fact that your exposure to Emiratis is extremely limited. This guy has to be high up on the ladder to get away with a small fine and a one month sentence, which he will probably never serve, and for it to take over 2 years for the case to be heard.

The accused was never held in detention, and there is no such thing as getting out for "good behavior". This is Dubai, not the UK. And why do you find it impossible for a 52 year old Arab man incapable of punching a pregnant woman? Again, you have no idea what goes on in Dubai.

You did however, confirm that you find "most" of them very polite, but again that's based on limited exposure. That leaves room for those that aren't and I would say that's where the accused fits in.

Now where've I heard that argument before? You don't live here so you don't know. Well I speak as I find and as I say, I haven't had a problem with my 'limited' access to the locals. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and mine is that this story just doesn't run true, to me anyway.

Bethsmum ,

I don't want to argue with you and I did not say "you don't live here". I'm just saying that wider exposure and spending more time around locals you find out things are not as they may appear to be. Stories one hears are not stories they would read about. The couple were just finishing up their lunch so they must have been at the table a good half hour. The man claimed that the table was "reserved" for him. Ikea doesn't accept "reservations".

7DAYS has previously reported how the Canadian woman, who was eight months pregnant at the time of the attack, and her husband were assaulted by the trio who demanded they give up their seats in the restaurant during a shopping trip in June 2009.

The Canadian woman, who was eight-months-pregnant, and her husband were eating at the restaurant in Ikea at Festival City in Dubai when they were approached by three Emirati men who demanded they move.

A Syrian man who witnessed the fight, Z R, said he saw A A hitting the pregnant woman while M A and E A were assaulting the husband on the floor.

He tried to intervene to stop one of the defendants from swinging a chair at the unconscious man, but was punched.

Security guards had to call Dubai Police to stop the fight after they failed to stop it themselves.The couple were taken to Rashid Hospital, where the wife was also given treatment to prevent a miscarriage. The child survived the attack, records show.

Zaid Raghdan, a Syrian, testified that while he was having lunch with Paul William, Australian, he heard a verbal fight at the next table between the three Emiratis and the couple. He also testified that the three men started beating the husband and when the wife intervened, one of them punched her and sat on her to prevent her from trying to stop the other two beating her husband.

After security men controlled the three, the first accused threatened to kill the husband, added Raghdan. Paul William testified that a friend who was accompanying him and Raghdan was also punched when he attempted to intervene.

When "bad" things happen to emiratis you never read their side of the story in the paper. If things didn't happen the way it has been claimed I would think he would want people to knowo that and make a statement in the paper if he was being accused of something that didn't happen. The judge didn't allow the video into case (why?) and there were witnesses, so I must have happened the way the couple claimed.

I know if I saw 3 men beating on my husband I would hardly just stand there and watch it happen and wouldn't think twice to try to make them stop. When the cafeteria in Ikea is busy you will see people "share" tables. Obviously all the small tables must have been take for the couple to sit at a table for 12, so there were 10 seats available. Have you ever "shared" a table with a stranger? I have. I've asked and have been asked.

Well I'm only reading what is in the papers Bora. If the Emiratis were there first and the kids were sitting at the table then what gives then what gives the couple the right to sit down at their table?
If that happened to me in my local MacDonalds in the UK and two foreigners decided to help themselves to my table, I'd be telling them to do one, too.

No where did it say the Emiratis had the table first. Even you say "If the Emiratis were there first". Who is to say that the children didn't sit at the end while the couple was already there? Maybe the Emiratis told the children to sit there and wait?

Let's look at the bigger picture. Say the Emiratis "reserved" the table (which you can't do at Ikea) and were there "first". Do you really think that their actions were justified because someone failed to listen to an order to move? Apparently the judge took the assault into consideration, not the cause. I think it speaks volumes as to what kind of a person that man is to assault a pregnant woman. I tend to think that his wife has felt his hand on her more times that she can count.

Well apparently the locals sent some of their children to sit at the other end of the table, so that's why they consider it 'reserved'. For goodness sake it ws a table for TWELVE people! What they couldn't share? Just another example of some thinking they're better and more entitled than others. BM, Bora is right, sadly if you were here more often you'd realise how things actually work.

I really don't care which way you try to spin it, their actions were appalling.

I'm leaning towards the Emirates. It sounds like the Canadian guy was looking for a fight but wasn't up to it.
I'm not saying that he should have moved, but thats all he had to do.

benwj , Why? They were there first, they'd nearly finished their meal, why should they have moved? He was merely standing up for himself and refusing to be 'bullied', which is all these men were. A bunch of bullies who think they can push others around.

So put yourself in their shoes. You've got your meal, you've found a BIG table to sit at, you're merrily eating away, some kids go and sit at the other end of the table. You've nearly finished your meal and you get asked to move? Why? Because of some bully boy and his selfish buddies, who think they're entitled to push others around because of 'who' they are?

Stop sticking up for them.

You have no idea how some of these men behave! One of my really good friends was 'whacked' by a local. A seated event she was running was full and there were no more seats available, and this guys comes in with his family and demands that other people are turfed out for him. She politely stated that it's a ticketed event and there are no more seats available. What did he do? Belted her full on across the face! My friend wanted to make a fuss and call the police, but the guys wife pleaded with her not to, it was clear that he'd take his frustration out on her later on and regularly beat her.

I'm sorry, but I've heard and witnessed similar things so many times in the long time I've lived here, that you honestly just expect them to behave badly.

Even though it was clearly mentioned in the paper that the couple were there first and they were almost finishing their lunch, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION for beating somebody specially a 7 months pregnant woman. I do believe you can find these type of psychopaths anywhere in the world regardless of their nationalities. However taking 2 years for the court to make decision and such a light sentence is a very much a privilege.

Chocoholic , You and I don't know exactly how it went down.

We know that the children were seated at the other end of the table first.

The couple arrived, and for whatever reason did not realise that the table was taken by the children's family, or they just chose to sit there anyway.

The 3 fathers arrive and... khalas

We don't know the tone of the request to leave the table, so giving the Emirati's the benefit of the doubt, the Canadian has to accept responsiibility for escalating things by being difficult.

This sentencing is pitiful.

benwj ,

The Canadian guy wasn't looking for a fight. He even told his wife to be quiet. And then his wife threw herself into the Emiratis fist, fell down and asked one of the other Emiratis to sit on her.

--- Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:10 pm ---

InDubai ,

^^^^Someone who sees the bigger picture.

Apparently some are more focused on who had the rights to the table than the fact that a pregnant woman was decked, injured and sat on.

--- Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:12 pm ---

benwj wrote:We know that the children were seated at the other end of the table first.

Where does it say that the children were there first? "We" know? Who is "we"? I haven't read where the children were there first. And in spite of it all, InDubai sees the bigger picture. Regardless of what transpired, it doesn't justify hitting a pregnant woman and sitting on her.

I totally agree. No matter who was there first, there is no justification for beating ANYBODY! Never mind a 7 months pregnant woman. To those of you who seem to think that's ok, as yourself what kind of 'civilised' person does that?

I don't see anybody justifying beating a pregnant woman Chocs. If you look back you will see that ben said early on that there is no justification for beating a pregnant woman. Myself? I just doubt the beating took place as described.
There are far too many inconsistencies in the case for my liking. I would like to hear from the Emiratis.
From reading the reports, it appears that the children were sitting at the table first. If this is so, then the Canadians could have easily moved on when it was pointed out to them that the table was taken.

The first defendant then came over and asked me to move tables saying they had already reserved the table and pointed to his three children who were sitting at the other end of the table.
“I told him that I would finish my food then leave. I added that there were many other empty tables he could use.”

The woman is reported to have said she couldn't because she was pregnant. That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say in the middle of Ikea, if indeed she did say it.

“I was in my last month of pregnancy and I told them that I’m pregnant and couldn’t move to another table but one of the men told me to be quiet and then assaulted my husband. I tried to help him but then I was punched in the face and fell to the floor.”

We all seem to be getting a little excitable. Chocs has said the woman received a broken ankle. Bora has said she was punched and sat on. Bora also says her husband wasn't looking for a fight and told his wife to shut up. What I read was that it was one of the Emiratis that told her to be quiet. Was she mouthing off I wonder? Some other person says one of the Emiratis was a soldier trained in being able to knock someone unconcious with a single blow.
I must be reading a different account of the story for I haven't read about any broken bones or anybody sitting on anybody.
What I'm reading is an argument in Ikea that got out of control. To what extent, I'm not sure as I wasn't there to witness it and neither was anyone posting here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Chocs, what has your friends experience got to do with this argument? I could give you dozens of examples of people being assaulted in England every day. It doesn't mean all English men are bullies. I could relate that story to any country in the world.
I'm not justifing anyone being beaten, whether they be male or female, pregnant or not. I just doubt that the incident was exactly as it was reported.
The Canadians will undoubtedly have embelished it for their Court appearance as people tend to do these days. That happens all over the world and not only in Dubai.

don't know which stories you're reading BM, but the injuries sustained by the couple have been well documented in the press here, not to mention the other two people who got assaulted. You seem intent on belittling the situation and haven't once condemed the actions of these thugs.

Take a look at the latest follow up and the comment at the bottom of the article and you will see the strength of feeling this case has brought out - note all the 'if it were expats' comments! This is the crux of it, they got off lightly because they're local - end of.

http://www.7days.ae/article/news/nation ... dict-32684

Bethsmum wrote:Bora has said she was punched and sat on. Bora also says her husband wasn't looking for a fight and told his wife to shut up.

I didn't "say" anything. I posted excerpts from the articles that were written.

This is like beating a dead horse, never mind a pregnant woman. If you want to convince yourself that the Emiratis were in the right and they are the victims BM, then go right ahead.

Chocoholic wrote:don't know which stories you're reading BM

The ones you linked to in your OP Chocs.

--- Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:25 pm ---

Chocoholic wrote:You seem intent on belittling the situation and haven't once condemed the actions of these thugs.

As I said, I would like to hear the other side of the story before I condemn anyone. Why does it bother you so much that everyone isn't jumping on the bandwagon? Sorry if I don't share your view that anything in a Khandoora is the devil incarnate.

--- Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:36 pm ---

Bora Bora wrote:If you want to convince yourself that the Emiratis were in the right and they are the victims BM, then go right ahead.

It's not me that needed convincing Bora, it was the Judge, and he didn't seem all that convinced, did he?

I never once said the Emiratis were victims. All I've said is that I think the Canadians may have embelished their story. There are many inconsistencies. It would appear there was a row of some description but how it esculated is anyone's guess. I somehow doubt that the locals went to Ikea with their families intent on kicking someone's head in. I have to say if someone nicked my table when my kids were sitting at it and refused to move, I'd have had something to say too. I doubt that I would have knocked someone unconcious but I know how these things can get out of hand.

Let's hope a lesson has been learned by everyone. The Emiratis don't lose their rag in the future and the Canadians don't pinch anybody else's table when there are others available.

But hey! What do I know? I have 'limited' access to the locals and don't live in Dubai so I don't know diddly sh1t about nothing.

Bethsmum ,

With all the reading you have done on the matter, do me a favor? You keep insisting that the children were there first, so please provide the link with the story that states that. Nowhere have I read that bit of information.

And stop getting pissy with me.

So what? Even if they were there forst it's a table for TWELVE people!!!!! As I've said before, some people need to learn to share! Plus you cannot send kids to 'reserve' a table, it's not allowed in busy palces like that.

None of it excuses the beating of a pregnant woman and her husband, regardless of the who was their first, so stop trying to deflect it from the seriousness of the CRIME!

As I know the Ikea's restaurant is a self service restaurant, first come first serve the couple has been there for 20 min before the Emirati man claim the ownership while almost finishing their food. I believe here is a culture of "I get what I want when I want it". As it was mentioned in the article the 52 years old has said you move when I am telling you to move. So the question is that if you were seating in a self service restaurant on a 12 seater table on a Saturday noon which is a very busy time, even if there were 2 children seating on the other side of table, would u move right a way if somebody tells u "You move when I am telling you to move"?

Bora Bora , With pleasure Bora and Good Morning.

http://www.7days.ae/article/news/national/mum-be-decked-ikea-punch

We had collected our food and went to sit at a table with 12 chairs around it near to the window. The first defendant then came over and asked me to move tables saying they had already reserved the table and pointed to his three children who were sitting at the other end of the table.

"I told him that I would finish my food then leave. I added that there were many other empty tables he could use."

I'm only reading the link that Chocs provided and haven't made it my life's work to research the case.
I'm so pleased I popped in to read Chocs latest nugget or I would have missed your post. The last time I looked it said ':alien:' and ':lol:'!

--- Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:07 am ---

Chocoholic wrote:So what? Even if they were there forst it's a table for TWELVE people!!!!! As I've said before, some people need to learn to share! Plus you cannot send kids to 'reserve' a table, it's not allowed in busy palces like that.

There speaks a woman without children. Chocs. it is normal for families with kids to seat them at a table in a fast food restaurant while they go and buy the food. If you've ever purchased food for numerous kids, only to find you don't have a table, you would know what I was on about. Try looking around you the next time you walk past the food court in MoE.

BTW I'm pleased to see you've down graded this to a crime from the 'horrific' crime you refered to previously. Horrific crime would describe the mass killing going on in Syria as we speak.

--- Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:11 am ---

InDubai wrote:So the question is that if you were seating in a self service restaurant on a 12 seater table on a Saturday noon which is a very busy time, even if there were 2 children seating on the other side of table, would u move right a way if somebody tells u "You move when I am telling you to move"?

If I had sat at someone else's table? Yes, most certainly and I would apologise for my mistake. It's called 'manners'

In this country people do use their kids to reserve tables and defend them agressively not because there aren't enough tables. People just want the closest possible table to where they buy their food.

It doesn't have anything to do with manners, It's just a selfish hostile mentality that people get sometimes if they've been in this country for a long time.