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Although I havent read that in detail other than what you quoted ( getting damn network error ! )i'm sure there are exemptions there aswell, the fact remains its not legally binding and not a proper treaty or accord just a guide line

Other question also remains about the use of violent force on the other ships in the flotilla and then during detention ?

Oh and BTW the full name is the San Remo manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict

This was not a case of an International Armed conflict. Although not legal the manual does not apply here

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote: But that damned Zionists, they just don't stick to the script do they?

The political game around this is going to be on the edge, or maybe beyond. Turkey has certainly something to loose from breaking relation with Israel. What to do with all those Israeli UAV´s for bombing the Kurds? Despite Erdogans anti-Israel rhetoric, Turkey remained its ties because of the Turkish military. This will probably end and will upset some high ranking officers...
Israel realized that no matter what it does, it will be critized. Now, we will see Israel taking off the gloves. The world doesn't need another crisis, and Israel can create a serious one. Israel wil threaten to escalate, EU will back down. EU leaders were always sissies.
Next step: Israel will not allow future flotilla's to reach Gaza and will deploy troops at some border. A lot of leaders will get very nervous.
Time to practice the poker face.

You couldn't have been more accurate on ur assessment of the rift between Turkey's political class and the military. Needless to add it's evident the Turkish administration is chasing Neo-Ottomanist fantasies.
All said and done what this has done is that it's place Erdogen firmly in the spotlight, and if public perception in Israel views him as someone who'd take Turkey to war over certain ideologies??Then he may get booted out.

Off-course it's plain to see he's angling for some kind of unofficial status as a ME powerhouse, but all he seems to suffer are setbacks. Iran chose Brazil to be a mediator in the Nuclear row and not Turkey. That came as a hard slap.
Specifically alienating Israel and Azerbaijan damaged Turkey’s interests heavily. Contrary to expectations, this year the Israel Lobby did nothing to help Turkey to stop a draft resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide in the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs, and it passed by a single vote. Moreover, Azerbaijan has started to play its natural gas card, threatening to double up gas prices for Turkey.

And now that the focus is firmly on Erdogen it won't be long before he is accused of gross atrocities against the Kurds etc etc. makes you wonder are the Israeli's really on the back foot here?

desertdudeshj wrote:This was not a case of an International Armed conflict.

The Gaza blockade is there because of an armed conflict between Hamas and Israel.

^

..a nation has sent its militia to confront people carrying provisions for the desperate, in the process shooting several of them dead, and yet they angrily blame the dead ones. One typical headline yesterday read "Activists got what they wanted – confrontation." It's an attitude so deranged it deserves to be registered as a psychosis, something like "Reverse Slaughter Victim Confusion Syndrome".

I presume that not everyone who supports Israel will agree with the line that those killed got what they wanted.. but then again, I'm seeing clear signs of this 'Reverse Slaughter Victim Confusion Syndrome' and it's associated condition 'Reverse Occupation Confussion Syndrome'

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:This was not a case of an International Armed conflict.

The Gaza blockade is there because of an armed conflict between Hamas and Israel.

Ok for the moment I'll give you that, until I go over it myself. Still San Remo Manual not legally binding.

What are your comments on this part of the San Remo Manual:

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and
(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.

104. The blockading belligerent shall allow the passage of medical supplies for the civilian population or for the wounded and sick members of armed forces, subject to the right to prescribe technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted.

(If the blockade is illegal, as some argue, then breaching the blockade is not a crime. However, whether legal or not, the whole episode ended up with dead civilian humanitarians whose 'crime' was to try to deliver aid)

Cheers,
Shafique

Amnesty International has declared the blockade illegal, for example:

“Israel claims that the ongoing blockade of Gaza, in force since June 2007, is a response to the indiscriminate rocket attacks launched from Gaza into southern Israel by Palestinian armed groups. The reality is that the blockade does not target armed groups but rather punishes Gaza’s entire population by restricting the entry of food, medical supplies, educational equipment and building materials,” said Malcolm Smart, Middle East and North Africa Director, Amnesty International.

“The blockade constitutes collective punishment under international law and must be lifted immediately.”

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/israel039s-gaza-blockade-continues-suffocate-daily-life-20100118

Didn't Israel claim that one purpose of the flotilla carrying those terrorists disquised as peace activists, was to break the blockade, which should be accepted as being legal because Israel says it's legal?

The desperate aims of justifying Israel's crimes towards humanity, sponsored by a bunch of scumbags (Western politicians, and some groups) resembles a huge gap in the balance of justice.

Who gives a damn what the West think of Hamas? We don't have to follow the double standard laws of politics set by the Western politicians, who's history is for God's sake is still wet of millions of innocent people who got massacred by them. And comparing the Islamic conquest for instance to the super brutal list of war crimes carried by those grandchildren of Crussaders. I'm not specifically pointing at any religious topic here as much as I'm talking about the cultural background of politics of both the West (Europe, and US) and the East (Arabia, Persia, Ottomonia).

Due to the lack of strong power in the East, people today -generally- chose to surrender to the Western principles of politics. No body will accept the East's political principles unless a strong country rises up to form an equilibrium between the West and East.

So yes .. Hamas or Hizballah or any other resistant group in the middle east are not terrorists in my point of view according to the proper politics which is being mutated by the Western influence, which is only there to serve the Western favours after all.

If you reject our ideology and mentality, then don't bother interefer in the Middle East's issues, or else your interference only resembles your evil intentions in sucking our nation's blood and natural resources, which rather makes YOU the terrorists.

So when our nations go protest in the streets calling for the death of the Western regimes and their uncontrolled tool "Israel", it doesn't make us terrorists. It infact just shows that we are people with dignity, and if wiping out every single damn Zionist Jew or Western from our region will bring us back our dignity and rights, then I'll surely vote for that

Call me a terrorist if you want I don't care what name you bark out, cuz you're also a terrorist according to our Middle Eastern dictionary

Flying Dutchman wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:This was not a case of an International Armed conflict.

The Gaza blockade is there because of an armed conflict between Hamas and Israel.

Looking forward to see you killed in a random attack, and then I'll stand in front of the press and tell them how sorry I feel for your death. Perhaps by that time we'll still need to more extra thought on negotiating peace.

Isn't that is your approach for peace between the Israeli's and Palestineans?

How about you count the number of Palestinean victims who died since 1948 and compare it to the number of Israeli victims. You'll see a HUGE difference in that number. So if number of victims is just a number, then I hope to see all Jews killed cuz it doesn't matter after all.
Kill the Jews & continue Hitler's unfinished mission cuz it makes sense what he was trying to do

Don't think about it too hard symettric - you may find yourself in an infinite logic loop.

Well, given that the US says (and demonstrates) that it NEEDS to bomb a country that harbours terrorists and even bomb countries which give assistance to terrorists (and turn a blind eye when supplies like cement, pizzas and chocolate are kept away from 'terrorist' states) - then, logically, it would need to start bombing Miami and Washington DC.

Miami because there are wanted terrorists being harboured there with international warrants out for their arrest - but because they carried out their terrorist acts against Cuba, it's ok to harbour these terrorists. Washington, because as we have seen in the 'Kurdish' thread - the US materially supports terrorism carried out by Turkey, Colombia etc.

Think of the mental turmoil that FD and eh are going through - a few months ago it appeared to me they were valiantly trying to defend Turkey's record against the Kurds, but now the Turks need to be portrayed as the bad guys. I guess it is a Ghaddafi in reverse (bad guy, now good guy)

Cheers,
Shafique

Symentry dude, now your not making sense anymore. Its rethoric like this which got everyone in this mess in the first place. Why kill the Jews, they are also people. Its the Israeli and Arab Govts and leadrship which are to blamed for this mess

See sh!t talking like this is what the press feeds on, processes it through it media machine and then you come out looking like a dumb fark with pic of you holding placards like kill all the juice ! This is more damaging than anything else. Makes you look like a Jew hatin bigotted idiot.

Now I know your not that. So put a reign on your emotions and start to think logically

P.S : Hoping for violence and death upon any member here is most probally against forum rules aswell. Now don't make me use those mod powers and start editing your posts

shafique wrote:Don't think about it too hard symettric - you may find yourself in an infinite logic loop.

Well, given that the US says (and demonstrates) that it NEEDS to bomb a country that harbours terrorists and even bomb countries which give assistance to terrorists (and turn a blind eye when supplies like cement, pizzas and chocolate are kept away from 'terrorist' states) - then, logically, it would need to start bombing Miami and Washington DC.

Miami because there are wanted terrorists being harboured there with international warrants out for their arrest - but because they carried out their terrorist acts against Cuba, it's ok to harbour these terrorists. Washington, because as we have seen in the 'Kurdish' thread - the US materially supports terrorism carried out by Turkey, Colombia etc.

Think of the mental turmoil that FD and eh are going through - a few months ago it appeared to me they were valiantly trying to defend Turkey's record against the Kurds, but now the Turks need to be portrayed as the bad guys. I guess it is a Ghaddafi in reverse (bad guy, now good guy)

Cheers,
Shafique

I just feel so sorry for those millions of Americans that are being manipulated by their regime that's backboned by the Jewish Zionist lobby. And I swear it's EQUAL to Al Qaeda, in fact Al Qaeda is American made after all, so it all makes sense after all.

FD is a scumbag, we must kill him while being unarmed, and then let's justify that with GOOD reasons such as he had hostile thoughts towards our nations, so we have to protect ourselves in advance and just kill him .. See what concept this scumbag got?

-- Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:10 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:Symentry dude, now your not making sense anymore. Its rethoric like this which got everyone in this mess in the first place. Why kill the Jews, they are also people. Its the Israeli and Arab Govts and leadrship which are to blamed for this mess

See sh!t talking like this is what the press feeds on, processes it through it media machine and then you come out looking like a dumb fark with pic of you holding placards like kill all the juice ! This is more damaging than anything else. Makes you look like a Jew hatin bigotted idiot.

Now I know your not that. So put a reign on your emotions and start to think logically

Did you really miss my sarcasm there dude?

shafique wrote:
(If the blockade is illegal, as some argue, then breaching the blockade is not a crime. However, whether legal or not, the whole episode ended up with dead civilian humanitarians whose 'crime' was to try to deliver aid)

Cheers,
Shafique

That is plain denial of reality. No Shaffy, lets stick to the facts.

Humanitarians deliver aid to help people. These 'humanitarians' used violence against military inspection after denying cooperation request to offload at Ashdod Port.

So, they crossed the line. Humanitarian aid is fine, but I would say to those people, make sure you deliver it the proper way. At least the people would receive it. They didn't want the easy delivery, they wanted provocation. It ran amok.

In some way, you can actually say that they got what they wanted. If you oppose the military, you are in for trouble.

Following orders from a bully can be tough, but in Darwinism, its always the strong that survives. The weak step aside or think smart. (like signing a peace treaty)

As for Symmetry's argument on the Palestinian/Jewish dead ratio, that is something related to strategy, tactics and technology. Terrorist fractions hiding among people doesn't get the ratio lower either. In essence, you can't win and still they keep trying with blessings from Allah against the wall of Israels military might.

Insane in the membrane. Insane in your brain!

RobbyG - I have seen the light. Your logic is unassailable. What does Amnesty International know about international law!

The fanbois were right all along.

This guy was therefore correct and not being sarcastic:

..whenever a nutcase marched into a shopping mall in somewhere like Wisconsin and gunned down a selection of passers-by, they could be on hand to tell the world's press "The gunman regrets the loss of life but did all he could to avoid violence."

We should indeed take the strong evidence of violence to heart and ignore such lefty observations:

To strengthen their case the Israelis have released a photo of the weapons they found on board, (which amount to some knives and tools and wooden sticks) that the naive might think you'd expect to find on any ship, but the more astute will recognise as exactly what you'd carry if you were planning to defeat the Israeli army.

OOh, those evil humanitarians with their chairs and sticks..

Cheers,
Shafique

Entire story Shafique, practice mate...

..... against the main weapon of the Israeli's: Paintball guns....

The handguns were only used to defend themselves in a life threatening situation. Try and watch that video again on deck. Pipes up and down, marine overboard, 4 assailants against 1 soldier. A miracle they were still capable of reaching that handgun...

Get real.

G you talk about facts and then dont see them.

Your whole argument about " oh look the poor soilders got beat up with slingshots " is flawed from the very word go.

The argument is still that this amounts to Piracy on the highseas and till now no one here or anywhere else has been able to prove otherwise. Once you and Israel can prove that it was not then we can move onwards. Until then it stays here.

Also ( third time I repeating this ) The use of excessive violent force on the other ships on the flotilla, and then again during detention and even upon release. In your words, did you watch the video ?

* interview with Awaida Arraf of her account n what happened n Challenger 1 the American boat in the flotilla.

Haven't heard a peep from the dutch crew on that.

I can't speak of facts when I talk about the other five ships in the flotilla. No information yet.

I was talking to Shafique about the situation on deck of the Mavi Marmara and why those Israeli's are visible using paintball type guns, and as last resort, using handguns. Its all visible.

RobbyG wrote:
As for Symmetry's argument on the Palestinian/Jewish dead ratio, that is something related to strategy, tactics and technology. Terrorist fractions hiding among people doesn't get the ratio lower either. In essence, you can't win and still they keep trying with blessings from Allah against the wall of Israels military might.

Insane in the membrane. Insane in your brain!

It's a number after all, right?
How do you want an unarmed nation that got every single bit of its civilization and heritage wiped down to ground to resist the endless offensive attacks from the a terrorist state that owns Nukes ..
Do you realise that even the ancient Olive tree farms got burned on purpose by the Israeli settlers and SPONSORED by the Israeli state Know who you're talking about ya habiibiii

Nevertheless, you still fail to understand that Middle Eastern's DO NOT follow the Western set of political laws, cuz we got our own set of political concepts. The Western politican cannot force their rules on the rest of the world, cuz by that they can always manipulate things up to justify their interference.

If the West wants to be on the safe side, it shouldn't interfere in others issues.
.. & incase you missed this info, the inteference started when the West created Israel in the Middle East as a tool to serve their interests with both POLITICAL & RELIGIOUS prespectives. If they really wanted to give sympathy to the Jews, why not just donate a small piece of land for them in Europe or Russia perhaps or the USA which is quite a VERY BIG country .. Oh wait, they already own the US under their Zionist Jewish lobby which makes the political/financial mission accomplished, now they're just left with the religious goal which is in progress, can't you see how DESPERATE they are to take over Jerusalem and taking over any religious site (Islamic and Christian). Focus Robby Focus

RobbyG wrote:

shafique wrote:
(If the blockade is illegal, as some argue, then breaching the blockade is not a crime. However, whether legal or not, the whole episode ended up with dead civilian humanitarians whose 'crime' was to try to deliver aid)

Cheers,
Shafique

That is plain denial of reality. No Shaffy, lets stick to the facts.

Humanitarians deliver aid to help people. These 'humanitarians' used violence against military inspection after denying cooperation request to offload at Ashdod Port.

So, they crossed the line. Humanitarian aid is fine, but I would say to those people, make sure you deliver it the proper way. At least the people would receive it. They didn't want the easy delivery, they wanted provocation. It ran amok.

In some way, you can actually say that they got what they wanted. If you oppose the military, you are in for trouble.

Following orders from a bully can be tough, but in Darwinism, its always the strong that survives. The weak step aside or think smart. (like signing a peace treaty)

As for Symmetry's argument on the Palestinian/Jewish dead ratio, that is something related to strategy, tactics and technology. Terrorist fractions hiding among people doesn't get the ratio lower either. In essence, you can't win and still they keep trying with blessings from Allah against the wall of Israels military might.

Insane in the membrane. Insane in your brain!

Rob, do you really believe that if the aid that was being sent to the Palestinians was delivered into the Israeli port that all of it would actually reach the Palestinians. The Israelis, out of the goodness of their heart and showing compassion, would allow the Palestinians receive that aid? Not in your wildest dreams!!!!

The fact that you take issue with Arabs and Muslims should not cloud your thinking.

What an arrogant statement to make saying that they got what they wanted. What they wanted to do was deliver aid to Gaza, not get killed in the process. They wanted to deliver it the "proper"way, which was peacefully.

Armchair generals who think they have all the answers in reality know crap because they themselves have never seen action. No different that the little sh*thead who graduates military school and goes into a war commanding a unit who were actually do the fighting long before he got there. It's easy to say "they should have done this, they should have done that" is based on what? the fact that these armchair generals are legends in their own minds with very few people share their inflated opinion of themselves and who think they can solve the problems of the world from a chair.

I'm sure you can justify Israel's attack on these ships while they were in INTERNATIONAL waters.

What has happened to you??? Or are you doing what DD pointed out, just being an antagonist, which is pretty much your usual approach to most things these days.

symmetric wrote:

RobbyG wrote:
As for Symmetry's argument on the Palestinian/Jewish dead ratio, that is something related to strategy, tactics and technology. Terrorist fractions hiding among people doesn't get the ratio lower either. In essence, you can't win and still they keep trying with blessings from Allah against the wall of Israels military might.

Insane in the membrane. Insane in your brain!

It's a number after all, right?
How do you want an unarmed nation that got every single bit of its civilization and heritage wiped down to ground to resist the endless offensive attacks from the a terrorist state that owns Nukes ..
Do you realise that even the ancient Olive tree farms got burned on purpose by the Israeli settlers and SPONSORED by the Israeli state Know who you're talking about ya habiibiii

Nevertheless, you still fail to understand that Middle Eastern's DO NOT follow the Western set of political laws, cuz we got our own set of political concepts. The Western politican cannot force their rules on the rest of the world, cuz by that they can always manipulate things up to justify their interference.

If the West wants to be on the safe side, it shouldn't interfere in others issues.
.. & incase you missed this info, the inteference started when the West created Israel in the Middle East as a tool to serve their interests with both POLITICAL & RELIGIOUS prespectives. If they really wanted to give sympathy to the Jews, why not just donate a small piece of land for them in Europe or Russia perhaps or the USA which is quite a VERY BIG country .. Oh wait, they already own the US under their Zionist Jewish lobby which makes the political/financial mission accomplished, now they're just left with the religious goal which is in progress, can't you see how DESPERATE they are to take over Jerusalem and taking over any religious site (Islamic and Christian). Focus Robby Focus

Yes, you are absolutely right in certain ways. War and disagreement can be unfair. Western interference is also unfair. But we have a moral obligation to support the Jewish people from a humanitarian perspective.

If only the Arabs were tolerant in 1947.

But I'm being a bit of a devils advocate here.
Not very good position to get credits. But hey, I can take it.

But we have a moral obligation to support the Jewish people from a humanitarian perspective.
If only the Arabs were tolerant in 1947.

You must be in twilight zone.in that case your moral obligation should be with arabs couse before 1947 there was a palestine belong to palestinians until british started to tear it apart.

RobbyG wrote:

symmetric wrote:

RobbyG wrote:
As for Symmetry's argument on the Palestinian/Jewish dead ratio, that is something related to strategy, tactics and technology. Terrorist fractions hiding among people doesn't get the ratio lower either. In essence, you can't win and still they keep trying with blessings from Allah against the wall of Israels military might.

Insane in the membrane. Insane in your brain!

It's a number after all, right?
How do you want an unarmed nation that got every single bit of its civilization and heritage wiped down to ground to resist the endless offensive attacks from the a terrorist state that owns Nukes ..
Do you realise that even the ancient Olive tree farms got burned on purpose by the Israeli settlers and SPONSORED by the Israeli state Know who you're talking about ya habiibiii

Nevertheless, you still fail to understand that Middle Eastern's DO NOT follow the Western set of political laws, cuz we got our own set of political concepts. The Western politican cannot force their rules on the rest of the world, cuz by that they can always manipulate things up to justify their interference.

If the West wants to be on the safe side, it shouldn't interfere in others issues.
.. & incase you missed this info, the inteference started when the West created Israel in the Middle East as a tool to serve their interests with both POLITICAL & RELIGIOUS prespectives. If they really wanted to give sympathy to the Jews, why not just donate a small piece of land for them in Europe or Russia perhaps or the USA which is quite a VERY BIG country .. Oh wait, they already own the US under their Zionist Jewish lobby which makes the political/financial mission accomplished, now they're just left with the religious goal which is in progress, can't you see how DESPERATE they are to take over Jerusalem and taking over any religious site (Islamic and Christian). Focus Robby Focus

Yes, you are absolutely right in certain ways. War and disagreement can be unfair. Western interference is also unfair. But we have a moral obligation to support the Jewish people from a humanitarian perspective.

If only the Arabs were tolerant in 1947.

But I'm being a bit of a devils advocate here.
Not very good position to get credits. But hey, I can take it.

Humanitarian prespective
You know while the Brits were actually sponsoring the creation of Israeli with all means, the Israelis bombed King David hotel on the head of the Brit troops .. Nothing is good enough for them

If the Jews were really thankful for your "humanitarian prespective", then why did they chase & sue every single person in the political world of the World War?
They believe in taking revenge and never forgive nor forget, they want to get people before God does.
So why no one is stopping them? But if any other nation decided to just DEFEND itself and not even having the intention of taking revenge, you'd quickly accuse them of being terrorists.
Double standaaaaards of the Western politics!

And today, how ironic, the Jews with their vast majority of Zionists are carrying a current holocaust against the Palestineans, and yet when humanity tried to help out those Palestineans, you simply justify the Israeli crimes and then talk about supporting the Jews from a humanitarian prespective!
Seriously Robby, you're concept is illogic

Why would the Arabs accept the Western interference of unfairly dividing their land and forced to have an alien bastard nation to settle on their own land??!! Would the Dutch accept that if they were in the Palestinean's shoes??

After the Arabs lost the wars, and ATLEAST since the past 20 years they are actually SUCKING UP to have Israel accept peace, but Israel is the one refusing, and rather chose to continue their offensive holocaust which is still going on.

-- Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:31 pm --

Toomuch politics for me today! I'm off to the cinemas to watch "Prince of Persia"

I suggest we revive the Persian Empire and claim back our Caucassian territories, along with Western Iraq and Bukhara/Samarqand region in the North of the Caspian sea too!

Lets end this discussion. It doesn't lead to the promised land.

Status quo continues...

@Symmetry: History defined itself numerous times. All comes down on Survival of the Fittest, baby

Just kidding.

RobbyG wrote:Lets end this discussion. It doesn't lead to the promised land.

Status quo continues...

@Symmetry: History defined itself numerous times. All comes down on Survival of the Fittest, baby

Just kidding.

So you chose to surrender peacfully

Don't worry Robby, I'll make sure they sentence you for just few number of years in jail, and I'll provide you with internet connection and access to junk food to keep you entertaind

symmetric wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Lets end this discussion. It doesn't lead to the promised land.

Status quo continues...

@Symmetry: History defined itself numerous times. All comes down on Survival of the Fittest, baby

Just kidding.

So you chose to surrender peacfully

Don't worry Robby, I'll make sure they sentence you for just few number of years in jail, and I'll provide you with internet connection and access to junk food to keep you entertaind

Hell no, I want the Emirati tour and your grannies dish one day

Don't do me no harm. I am just a butterfly between the remnants of the Crusades.

RobbyG wrote:

symmetric wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Lets end this discussion. It doesn't lead to the promised land.

Status quo continues...

@Symmetry: History defined itself numerous times. All comes down on Survival of the Fittest, baby

Just kidding.

So you chose to surrender peacfully

Don't worry Robby, I'll make sure they sentence you for just few number of years in jail, and I'll provide you with internet connection and access to junk food to keep you entertaind

Hell no, I want the Emirati tour and your grannies dish one day

Don't do me no harm. I am just a butterfly between the remnants of the Crusades.

The offer is still valid, lol. Be my guest

End good all good.

Anybody gonna sign that peace treaty now?

Hey Rob, the Israeli message is not getting through - we need to step up our campaign to spread the truth.

I mean, look at this guy's analysis - how stupid is he?

“A simple point. The violence by the activists is pretty abhorrent. These are not followers of Gandhi or MLK Jr. But the violence is not fatal to anyone and it is in response to a dawn commando raid by armed soldiers. They are engaging in self-defense. More to the point: theya r civilians confronting one of the best militaries in the world. They killed no soldiers; their weapons were improvised; the death toll in the fight is now deemed to be up to 19 - all civilians.

It staggers me to read defenses of what the Israelis have done. They attacked a civilian flotilla in international waters breaking no law. When they met fierce if asymmetric resistance, they opened fire. And we are now being asked to regard the Israelis as the victims.

Seriously.

This is like a mini-Gaza all over again. The Israelis don’t seem to grasp that Western militaries don’t get to murder large numbers of civilians because they don’t like them, or because they could, on a far tinier scale, hurt Israelis. And you sure don’t have a right to kill them because they resist having their ship commandeered, in international waters. The Israelis seem to be making decisions as if they can get away with anything. It’s time the US reminded them in ways they cannot mistake that they cannot.”

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/videos-of-the-raid.html

I mean, he even says 'seriously' as if to say Israel's arguments are silly!



Cheers,
Shafique