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...or is it??

Found this link quite amusing

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173452,00.html

As usual Fox gets it wrong. Jackson wants to go to Bahrain.

Hippest city? And this is spread by who? The people in charge? 'Nothing's good enough unless it's the best'? Well there's lots of things here that aren't 'The Best'.

In fact I'd have to say Dubai is starting to get a bad reputation. A mate just came back from visiting home and he said people were like - oh you live in that crazy place that's supposed to be a muslim country where booze, hookers and drugs are freely available?

Where people don't get paid for months on end, with racism everywhere.
HHmmmmm think a bit of a clean-up job is called for.

Chocoholic wrote:As usual Fox gets it wrong. Jackson wants to go to Bahrain.

Hippest city? And this is spread by who? The people in charge? 'Nothing's good enough unless it's the best'? Well there's lots of things here that aren't 'The Best'.

In fact I'd have to say Dubai is starting to get a bad reputation. A mate just came back from visiting home and he said people were like - oh you live in that crazy place that's supposed to be a muslim country where booze, hookers and drugs are freely available?

Where people don't get paid for months on end, with racism everywhere.
HHmmmmm think a bit of a clean-up job is called for.

I agree Chocoholic! Thats why I said I was amused! :lol. You are right about the bad rep bit though, mates of mine in the US who i caught up after a few years said "hell no, you living in that expensive man made city in the desert? I heard there's hookers and booze and stuff all over! And dont working class people get treated like animals without pay there and in general you're 2nd class there?" I was surprised, hmm, word travels fast about Dubai!

Friend of mine from Amsterdam had been here last year and said that his impression of the UAE was that it was still a third world country and lot of development in all aspects of society needs to be done. I would agree with him on that.

They got a lot of things messed up in that article:

1. You do not get citizenship by buying a house.. just a lease

2. Hippest city tag line was interesting until you read that it was stated by some guy working for the top brass ... now which place self proclaims that they are the hippest??? Do i smell a big publicity stunt?

3. Michael J is not in dubai but is in Bahrain!!!

At least they mention a bit about the stark difference in classes... They should have gone more into the follwing areas since they were mentioning some shortcomings:

1. Human rights doesn't exist here and people arent treated equal

2. Racism is flourishing here, everything that is outlawed in the west is alive and well here

3. The place can be quite ancient and barbaric at times

Anyways, yeah Dubai has a longgg way to go before it can even consider itself to the likes of LA, Vegas, NY, London, or Miami etc.. One thing that is definitely going to hurt its rep (besides the usual hookers booze etc) is how expensive the place is becoming. Think about it, it is getting so friggin expensive that people are going to realize that why stay here when you get no health or pension benefits. Dubai isnt the El Dorado it once was and even though they advertise tax free, it is far from it.. it is just hidden with the cost of living. And sure, you can say other cities are the same if not more expensive. That might be true, but then Dubai aint no New York or LA by any means.. and if your going to save the same amount why not live in the West where you can own property, are equal in the eyes of the law, have rights etc?

Basically Dubai is losing its competitiveness day by day.. maybe they just want Dubai to be for tourists and make it into a playground for the rich and famous.. certainly seems to be direction they are heading in.. al lot of thinking and cleaning up needs to be done.. It is true that the main saving grace for people coming to the gulf was the big paycheck and savings.. that seems to be a thing of the past now for most expats (there was even an article in yesterdays Gulf News about expats suffering visa anxiety and mental illness and an article about a local selling his body organs to pay off his debt!!!)

A lot of cleaning up needs to be done!!!

Where booze flows and hookers are rife?....Nothing like any other city in the world then?!?!? Maybe you could go to J'Berg and get car jacked, or London and pay over 2000 Dhs a month for a 1 bed flat, or maybe you could go to New York and see the unemployment rates...yea Dubai is auful isnt it....I hate this no crime, no tax, educated society!

SkierAL wrote:Where booze flows and hookers are rife?....Nothing like any other city in the world then?!?!? Maybe you could go to J'Berg and get car jacked, or London and pay over 2000 Dhs a month for a 1 bed flat, or maybe you could go to New York and see the unemployment rates...yea Dubai is auful isnt it....I hate this no crime, no tax, educated society!

yeah yeah, those are the good points. what i was discussing was overall quality of life compared to different countries that are comparable. not south africa or other crime infested places for gods sake.. and what about NY and London? sure its expensive but people are rolling in dough right now.. and what about unemployment? Do you know what the unemployement rate is in the Arab world? You get unemployment insurance and benefits in Canada, USA, and UK.. what do you get here? so you should really compare apples to apples..

SkierAL wrote:....I hate this no crime, no tax, educated society!

1. There is plenty of crime unless maybe in your books not paying hard working people on time or at all is not a crime eh? Maybe blatant discrimination is not a crime? And maybe being able to increase rents at your whim and fancy and evict people is not a crime..

2. There are PLENTY of taxes, theyre just hidden in the form of increased costs and huge fees

3. Educated society.. that is really a matter of opinion.. (what with barbaric driving, employers, and other crazy stuff that happens... hell, last week a mate of mine who is British was shocked when his son of 9 was playing with an indian boy.. and then his son's friend (british) went up to him and said "why you playing with him, hes.. indian"!! Really, that is so sad and disturbing for a kid of 9 to say.. and things like that make me wonder if bringing up kids here is a good idea..

And I think the point that Choc was trying to make with the whole booze/hookers statement was that Dubai was getting a rep for being a hypocritical place.. proxy blocks all bad stuff, yet you can get a hooker on the streets..

All I'm saying is that many things can be done to make Dubai a truly world class city... and not just an artifical fairy city in the desert..

MaaaD wrote:http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/NationNF.asp?ArticleID=189293

Joseph Abdul a Canadian-Lebanese resident said: "It is the best city no doubt. We have the best clubs, the best cafes and the best luxury lifestyle."

Obvioulsy he hasnt been to the clubs and cafes and lifestyle in NY city

Trust me, there is no crime. You spend 5 seconds away from your phone in London or New York and it's already being shipped to Beruit. This is bliss.

There are no taxes, these speed cameras / expensive fees and high petrol costs (if you think petrol here is expensive) are all present in every other society in the world...just you don't pay income tax (20% of your salary)...bliss

And finally, your telling me that the rest of the world are "rolling in dough" !?!?! There is more wealth flying around here than any country i have ever been to!! With a Porsche Cayenne parked in every other driveway it's hard to think otherwise!!

People need to stop complaning about Dubai and realise how good this place is!!

Trust me, there is no crime. You spend 5 seconds away from your phone in London or New York and it's already being shipped to Beruit. This is bliss.

Depends on what your definition of crime is.. there is a different type of crime here..
There are no taxes, these speed cameras / expensive fees and high petrol costs (if you think petrol here is expensive) are all present in every other society in the world...just you don't pay income tax (20% of your salary)...bliss

Yeah no direct taxes true, but many indirect taxes and income levels for "most people" are the same as after tax salaries out in the west.. not for everyone though.. and you dont just consider income by itself, other benefits like health, free education for kids, and insurance count for a lot too.. you have to really consider everything

And finally, your telling me that the rest of the world are "rolling in dough" !?!?! There is more wealth flying around here than any country i have ever been to!! With a Porsche Cayenne parked in every other driveway it's hard to think otherwise!!

Dude, you actually need to visit places like NYC.. what people spend there makes spending here look like peanuts.. trust me on that, the well off there spend 5K USD no issues on one night.. I know cuz ive partied there with friends.. And there is no shortage of amazing cars there either... i know a dozen professionals there raking in a cool million a year USD..

People need to stop complaning about Dubai and realise how good this place is!!

It is a good place no doubt and a good place to earn $ (thats why were all here), but can be made much much better with a little humanity injected into Dubai... thats all ..


There is more wealth flying around here than any country i have ever been to!! With a Porsche Cayenne parked in every other driveway it's hard to think otherwise!!

Yes that is true.. Dubai is a very small place though mate... easier to notice then isnt it? And mind you most of those nice cars are owned by locals and business owners in Dubai... not your average worker

Completely disagree. Accept your opinion.

SkierAL wrote:Completely disagree. Accept your opinion.

Hey to each his own eh? Ive been here in Dubai since 1976 for about 22 odd years and lived the rest in the West in UK, Canada and the US .. so i think i know a thing or two about this place more than someone whos been here less than 3 months..

I dont have anything against Dubai, hell, its given me teh car of my dreams and a fancy villa and lifestyle. I was just trying to present both sides of the equation and each and every place has its pluses and minuses.. It's how a city responds and deals with the minuses over time that matters and contributes to the well being and betterment of society..

Believe it or not, there are ** many people ** in dubai who are here for the long haul (not just a few years or a 6 months assignment) to whom money isnt the end all and to whom having a healthy and happy community is also important... And I believe that the opinion of people in this country that have been here since back in the day and have contributed to the phenomenal growth of this country should be respected and not taken for granted as seems to be the case nowadays.

You are entitled to your own opinion of course... I'm off, have to catch a round of golf

It's simple folks; those who don't like it should just leave why the hypocrisy?

Acebravo wrote:It's simple folks; those who don't like it should just leave why the hypocrisy?

This is exactly the problem with many people that just ticks me off .. leave if you dont like it ... not exactly the way in which to build a strong and health community. There is a deeper discussion at hand which you obviously did not get.

Dubai is a good place and this discussion is about how Dubai is good right now but can be so much better and truly a world class city with a healthy and intergrated community, not for someone to come and preach "leave it if you dont like it" when others want to try an better the community

Moving on now...

Acebravo wrote:It's simple folks; those who don't like it should just leave why the hypocrisy?

Jag I totally agree with your comments with regards to attitudes like this. As I've said before Dubai wants to be seen as a progressive, forward thinking place on par with many big cities around the world - BUT if people don't tell you what's wrong with it, how will it ever improve.

I could say the same to all the whingers and spongers who flood into the UK, who then start moaning, if you don't like it then p*** off!

Every place has it's pros and cons and sure Dubai has many plus points, but it also has severe issues that never seem to get addressed and people are starting to see that the shine is definately coming off the place and it's reputation is starting to be questioned.

Chocoholic wrote:

Acebravo wrote:It's simple folks; those who don't like it should just leave why the hypocrisy?

Jag I totally agree with your comments with regards to attitudes like this. As I've said before Dubai wants to be seen as a progressive, forward thinking place on par with many big cities around the world - BUT if people don't tell you what's wrong with it, how will it ever improve.

I could say the same to all the whingers and spongers who flood into the UK, who then start moaning, if you don't like it then p*** off!

Every place has it's pros and cons and sure Dubai has many plus points, but it also has severe issues that never seem to get addressed and people are starting to see that the shine is definately coming off the place and it's reputation is starting to be questioned.

Good to see your on the same level Chocoholic... Progression is not about just blindly ignoring the negative issues in society just cuz maybe it doesnt apply to you.

It is just so annoying me when people who have not even lived in the country (or hardly) and have not contributed to the society and development in any way whatsoever come along and preach leave if you dont like. I really hope that people coming to Dubai in the future are not like these one track mind people and are more forward thinking and will contribute to Dubai unlike some people on this board! Progression will happen hopefully, just not overnight of course..

Anyways, here's to a better Dubai and better society in the future

.. so i think i know a thing or two about this place more than someone whos been here less than 3 months..

Point taken, however, I have lived in France, Switzerland, Italy and England over the last few years and now am starting to gain experience in Dubai...whereas you have only lived in Dubai, so can't really offer that much comparison between this and the rest of the world.

jag wrote:Good to see your on the same level Chocoholic... Progression is not about just blindly ignoring the negative issues in society just cuz maybe it doesnt apply to you.

It is just so annoying me when people who have not even lived in the country (or hardly) and have not contributed to the society and development in any way whatsoever come along and preach leave if you dont like. I really hope that people coming to Dubai in the future are not like these one track mind people and are more forward thinking and will contribute to Dubai unlike some people on this board! Progression will happen hopefully, just not overnight of course..

Anyways, here's to a better Dubai and better society in the future

And I'll say cheers to that. You know I love the place, but it could be so much better, if people just took a little more time to as you say help contribute.

And people forget that Dubai is a city that is starting to rely on the tourist industry for much of it's income, so reputation and the way the city is perceived is so important, image is everything and at the moment Dubai could do with a good PR guru - Max Clifford anyone?!

jag wrote:
This is exactly the problem with many people that just ticks me off .. leave if you dont like it ... not exactly the way in which to build a strong and health community. There is a deeper discussion at hand which you obviously did not get.

Dubai is a good place and this discussion is about how Dubai is good right now but can be so much better and truly a world class city with a healthy and intergrated community, not for someone to come and preach "leave it if you dont like it" when others want to try an better the community

Moving on now...

The saying "The dogs are barking while the caravan is moving" fits you quite nicely!

Acebravo wrote:

jag wrote:The saying "The dogs are barking while the caravan is moving" fits you quite nicely!

Yes, I am aware of the proverb. It's not the critic who counts; it's the doer who makes the caravan move on. Our business in Dubai has employed lots of people, provided them with respectable jobs and treated them with respect - and we have all made contributions to the growth of Dubai. As a contributor to society here I have a right to voice what is wrong with Dubai and what needs to be adressed. Maybe you should come back and post when you have actually made some meaningful contribution??

And FYI, I have been outside of Dubai for about 9 years in the UK, Canada and the US. So maybe you should actually read the posts before replying with your I've been in blah blah blah for the last few years. Keep your useless and very annoying preaching to yourself please.

jag wrote:
Yes, I am aware of the proverb. It's not the critic who counts; it's the doer who makes the caravan move on. Our business in Dubai has employed lots of people, provided them with respectable jobs and treated them with respect - and we have all made contributions to the growth of Dubai. As a contributor to society here I have a right to voice what is wrong with Dubai and what needs to be adressed. Maybe you should come back and post when you have actually made some meaningful contribution??

And FYI, I have been outside of Dubai for about 9 years in the UK, Canada and the US. So maybe you should actually read the posts before replying with your I've been in blah blah blah for the last few years. Keep your useless and very annoying preaching to yourself please.

Oh please; now you're a society builder huh? spare us the non-sense will ya?

Acebravo wrote:

jag wrote:
Yes, I am aware of the proverb. It's not the critic who counts; it's the doer who makes the caravan move on. Our business in Dubai has employed lots of people, provided them with respectable jobs and treated them with respect - and we have all made contributions to the growth of Dubai. As a contributor to society here I have a right to voice what is wrong with Dubai and what needs to be adressed. Maybe you should come back and post when you have actually made some meaningful contribution??

And FYI, I have been outside of Dubai for about 9 years in the UK, Canada and the US. So maybe you should actually read the posts before replying with your I've been in blah blah blah for the last few years. Keep your useless and very annoying preaching to yourself please.

Oh please; now you're a society builder huh? spare us the non-sense will ya?

People such as yourself with your attitude and dim intellect are nothing but a temporary part of Dubai's landscape.. and AMEN to that..! And as much fun as this has been listening to your drivel, this thread can go on infinitely, so I will just end my part of this thread.

Best of luck to you though!

Jag, don't worry about it! Acebravo is obviously one of those people who's only interested in being here for a couple of years tops and taking what they can out of the place before moving on to their next jolly.

I've been visiting Dubai for the last 8 years and have lived here for 2 and boy has it changed so much in that short amount of time and not necessarily all for the better. But it'll get there I'm sure. More and more people are now willing to stay here long term instead of using it as a play ground for the short term.

Chocoholic wrote:Jag, don't worry about it! Acebravo is obviously one of those people who's only interested in being here for a couple of years tops and taking what they can out of the place before moving on to their next jolly.

I've been visiting Dubai for the last 8 years and have lived here for 2 and boy has it changed so much in that short amount of time and not necessarily all for the better. But it'll get there I'm sure. More and more people are now willing to stay here long term instead of using it as a play ground for the short term.

Yep, it is still a new country and it'll get there Acebravo is a waste of time, I agree

People are defintely investing here now and making it their home. Last week I went to a party in Emirates hills and this guys house was worth about 20 million! What a sweet mansion!!

Chocoholic wrote:Jag, don't worry about it! Acebravo is obviously one of those people who's only interested in being here for a couple of years tops and taking what they can out of the place before moving on to their next jolly.

I've been visiting Dubai for the last 8 years and have lived here for 2 and boy has it changed so much in that short amount of time and not necessarily all for the better. But it'll get there I'm sure. More and more people are now willing to stay here long term instead of using it as a play ground for the short term.

How pathetic! you people wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the good tax free pay to begin with you hypocrites! I don't see you "community building" any other place/country.

Being an Arab Muslim, when I go there and not necessarily Dubai, it's definitely going to be premanent....so there, never assume sweetness ok?

Well I can't say which country I'll end up in permanently, becauwse I fully intend to get out and see more of the world, but I can see myself staying here for a good few years.

And what has you being an Arab muslim got to do with anything, what difference does that make to what we're discussing? Many people here are Arab muslims from other GCC countries, but they still don't stay here long term, so that doesn't sway your argument one bit, many of them are here for the goodtimes as much as anyone else.

Acebravo wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Jag, don't worry about it! Acebravo is obviously one of those people who's only interested in being here for a couple of years tops and taking what they can out of the place before moving on to their next jolly.

I've been visiting Dubai for the last 8 years and have lived here for 2 and boy has it changed so much in that short amount of time and not necessarily all for the better. But it'll get there I'm sure. More and more people are now willing to stay here long term instead of using it as a play ground for the short term.

How pathetic! you people wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the good tax free pay to begin with you hypocrites! I don't see you "community building" any other place/country.

Being an Arab Muslim, when I go there and not necessarily Dubai, it's definitely going to be premanent....so there, never assume sweetness ok?

Dude, the only pathetic person is you. Different people have different reasons for being here besides the pay. For most asians its not just the pay that brought them here as this place was yet better than their hometown situation. For westerners, yeah its is mostly just the pay. When I got down here I wasn't offered amazing payand didnt want to work for anyone hence I decided to get into business and I worked my own way up, so do dont you call me a hypocrite, you arse.

As for your I don't see you "community building" any other place/country, I find no need to justify what I have done outside of Dubai, this thread is about Dubai.

And who the hell cares if you are an Arab Muslim??? You are an idiot and a most annoying thing. Now run along and make youself useful somewhere rather than wasting our time here with your drivel. And dont get involved in discussions you know nothing about

jag wrote:
And who the hell cares if you are an Arab Muslim??? You are an idiot and a most annoying thing. Now run along and make youself useful somewhere rather than wasting our time here with your drivel. And dont get involved in discussions you know nothing about

Uh ohhhh.... Something tells me this is gonna blow up!!

Liban wrote:

jag wrote:
And who the hell cares if you are an Arab Muslim??? You are an idiot and a most annoying thing. Now run along and make youself useful somewhere rather than wasting our time here with your drivel. And dont get involved in discussions you know nothing about

Uh ohhhh.... Something tells me this is gonna blow up!!

Nah, done with this thread... not worth pursuing..

jag wrote:
Dude, the only pathetic person is you. Different people have different reasons for being here besides the pay. For most asians its not just the pay that brought them here as this place was yet better than their hometown situation. For westerners, yeah its is mostly just the pay. When I got down here I wasn't offered amazing payand didnt want to work for anyone hence I decided to get into business and I worked my own way up, so do dont you call me a hypocrite, you arse.

As for your I don't see you "community building" any other place/country, I find no need to justify what I have done outside of Dubai, this thread is about Dubai.

And who the hell cares if you are an Arab Muslim??? You are an idiot and a most annoying thing. Now run along and make youself useful somewhere rather than wasting our time here with your drivel. And dont get involved in discussions you know nothing about

The lowest of manners is to reply to something that's not directed at you...but in your case lowest of manners is redundant!

You just proved my point about your hypocrisy...obviously you DO have a problem with Arabs and Muslims...yet you want to discuss building their community? told you, you are there for money and nothing ELSE!

You also proved that you are nothing but a despicable cowboy...you idiot!

No Acebravo, the point was there was no need to mention your nationality and religious preferences as it had nothing to do with the discussion. And they way you put it in your post insinuated that you consider yourself better than others because of it. It doesn't / shouldn't matter where you're from and what you believe in, the point Jag was trying to make is that anyone who decides to live in the UAE should at least contribute to the country and it's progression, as should anyone moving to any country.

That was all, it was nothing offensive against Arabs or Muslims, you just read it that way (which also maybe means that for some reason you already have a chip on your shoulder for some reason). The point I was trying to make is that it's unnecessary info, it doesn't matter in this discussion, so I don't know why you brought it up, unless you were insinuating that you have a right to be here more than anyone else.

So maybe you should think about why people reacted to your comments in such a way.

If you want to live somewhere, where you come from has no bearing on your contribution to the society in which you're living in, the point is that you do contribute and try to ake it better.

So maybe you should take this into account before making flippant comments.

And as Jag has rightly said this discussion is over - thanks for ruining it.