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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRGFp58w ... r_embedded

I've never seen something so disturbing in my life...

Chomsky points out in his book - Hegemony or Survival, how there appears to be a link between abuses by military and US military aid.

Interestingly, Israel wasn't the worst perpetrators of crimes - it was Columbia and Turkey. He took the reports from Human Rights Watch etc and compared that with military aid - intriguingly when aid and sales to Turkey overtook Columbia, so did the human rights abuses.

It seems this pattern repeats itself in other countries as well - from Egypt, Indonesia and now Pakistan. And it is not limited to 'Muslim' countries - but also Asian and South American.

All are regimes who use military against their people and are given support and succour by the US.

This explains why so many Pakistanis are seeing the US behind the recent upsurge in violence - not something I agree with, as the Mullahs have really brought this upon themselves.

That said, thanks to eh from bringing this to our attention - we should know where our aid is going to.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, I am very surprised by that. I never thought the Pakistani military would behave in such a shameful way as they are known internationally (well before the US was generous enough to provide aid to them?) for their humanitarian roles and peace keeping efforts in Bangladesh and a few regions within Pakistan proper - I believe shortly after Pakistani independence if I am not mistaken.

It is unfortunate that Pakistan has recently taken a leaf from Turkey's playbook and that this incident is only one tiny black speck in an otherwise spotless record of an unwavering commitment to human rights.

I thought everyone knew that the US/UK uses pakistan to 'interview' suspected terrorists for us.

^Apparently not. Some, it appears, still believe the 'Fox News' version of events

Cheers,
Shafique

We get pakistan and other countries to beat them up so US/UK can say 'we never torture'.

google 'extraordinary rendition'

The middle east will dominate this entire century im sure.

I think in bahrain all shia are banned from joining the army (there is a sunni minority government)

I'm also currently reading John Pilger's 'Hidden Agenda' - fascinating reading.

What that shows is that the support of oppressive regimes is hardly something new, but actually the normal M.O. for the US and others.

Some truly shocking exposes in there and his other books and documentaries.

I also recommend his documentary 'Palestine is still the issue' - a follow up to an earlier documentary.

Cheers,
Shafique

I just worry that muslim world think that UK is 100% pro isreal when it isnt'. US different thou as I have been on american forums and one guy said, speaking badly about isreal destroys careers!

Problems only going to be solved through dialogue, and until that happens it will rumble on for ever.

^ You're right.

eh, some time back, started a thread about how UK muslims were taking ads out in Pakistan to explain the point that the UK and the West generally isn't as Islamophobic as some may want to believe. I said this was a good thing - but bizarely his line was that the media in the west had the wrong idea of Islam (he argues that Islam is actually violent etc and that the media reports explaining what Islam actually teaches are all Muslim spin).

As for the distinction between US and UK over Israel - you've also got that spot on.

There actually is a lot more criticism of Israel's actions from Israeli media and Human Rights organisations than from the US. Its a weird world!!

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:Well, I am very surprised by that. I never thought the Pakistani military would behave in such a shameful way as they are known internationally (well before the US was generous enough to provide aid to them?) for their humanitarian roles and peace keeping efforts in Bangladesh and a few regions within Pakistan proper - I believe shortly after Pakistani independence if I am not mistaken.

It is unfortunate that Pakistan has recently taken a leaf from Turkey's playbook and that this incident is only one tiny black speck in an otherwise spotless record of an unwavering commitment to human rights.

mate I can give you billions of examples around the world where an uprising or a group of people who want an independant state are brought down violently. Look at IRA or ask the Sikhs in India what happened to them when Indian Army was brought in to make sure that the Sikhs never make an uprising again. Are you saying that torture, rape and abuse didnt happen there?

As regards to Pakistan, I agree with you that Pakistan army shouldnt do this. But I guess they are frustrated because they are facing an enemy they dont know about. Sorry I dont believe the media when they say that Tailban are behind these bombings. If Pakistan has the technology they can surely find out from Forensice science who is behind the bombing. But the fact is they dont have such technology, they can ask for it from USA but we all know they are asking for money which will end up in Mr 10%s pockets . Bombings in Pakistan could be carried out by Anyone. It could be taliban, the army, the secret services, indian secret services, Irani secret services, USA secret services or even USA security contractors who drively FREELY in Pakistan

Secondly how sure are you that the people the army is torturing are muslims?? By growing a beard and having a muslim name doesnt make you a muslim. How sure are you that the members of the army are muslims as well?

I do appose such kind of things as it is forbidden in Islam and its mentioned in the Quran. But how sure are we to say that the member of the army have actually read about the treatment of muslims in the quran?

We dont know the full picture of this scenario. Maybe the guy knows some information or maybe he was responsible for the death of children and women in a bombing?

Pakistan is committing genocide in S. Waziristan....

event horizon wrote:Pakistan is committing genocide in S. Waziristan....

Muslims killing Muslims is never a war crime.