Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed

Topic locked
  • Reply
Muslim World Domination: Myth exposed Jul 13, 2012
No surprises for me in this new study - but it does drive a nail through the arguments of the anti-Muslims who want to believe what Jihadwatch etc tell them about Islam.

Article and study are self-explanatory

Study: Muslim extremists not looking for world domination
By Adam Levine

Muslim extremists are more concerned with defending against foreign intrusion than foisting Islam on the world, according to a new study of extremist texts. The study suggests that a Western approach of claiming extremists are seeking world domination is misdirected, and instead should seek to counteract claims of victimhood.

“Continued claims to the contrary, by both official and unofficial sources, only play into a ‘clash of civilizations’ narrative that benefits the extremist cause. These claims also undermine the credibility of Western voices, because the audience knows that extremist arguments are really about victimage and deliverance,” write the researchers, Jeffry Halverson, R. Bennett Furlow and Steven Corman.

The analysis by Arizona State University’s Center for Strategic Communication looked at how the Quran was used in 2,000 propoganda items from 1998 to 2011, though the majority were from post-2007, that emanated mostly from the Middle East and North Africa. Among the groups analyzed were al Qaeda and al Shabaab, as well as anonymous postings online.
One result that surprised the researchers, the “near absence” of citations from one of the most extreme passages, the “Verse of Swords,” that encourages “all-out war against world domination.”

“Widely regarded as the most militant or violent passage of the Quran, it is treated as a divine call for offensive warfare on a global scale,” the researchers wrote. “It is also regarded as a verse which supersedes over 100 other verses of the Quran that counsel patience, tolerance and forgiveness.”

The study concludes that extremists, at least based on how they quote from the Quran, do not reflect “an aggressive offensive foe seeking domination and conquest of unbelievers, as is commonly assumed. Instead they deal with themes of victimization, dishonor and retribution.”

“The verses frequently utilized by extremists from this surah address subjects such as enduring hardships and the importance of fighting against the unjust unbelievers who oppress men, women and children,” the researchers wrote about the most cited chapter (called a “surah”).

The insights led the researchers to suggest alternative approaches to counteracting the extremist messages, rather than focusing on the fear factor. The Arizona group cites a recent effort by the State Department to counteract al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, who said in a 2011 video that “there is no hope to remove the corrupt regimes in Muslim countries except by force. And there is no chance to bring change through peaceful action.” The State Department Digital Outreach Team posted a video intercutting that video, which included Zawahiri daring someone to find a single example to prove Zawahiri wrong, with video of Arab Spring protesters in Egypt.

Halverson, Bennett and Corman also suggest undermining the “champion” image aspired to by extremists.
Extremists use a “deliverance narrative to position themselves as the champion that can deliver the community from evil,” the researchers wrote. “However, as we have argued elsewhere, extremists do little that is champion-like. They have not unseated any apostate rulers, and their victims are overwhelmingly likely to be Muslims.”

The study cites data from the West Point Combating Terrorism Center that estimated al Qaeda militants were 38 times more likely to kill a Muslim than a Westerner, based on data from 2006 to 2008.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/1 ... omination/

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
You do understand what the word 'Myth' in the thread title is referring to, don't you?

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
European wrote:I don't believe it is a myth


I know. Hence my opening sentence.

You are entitled to your beliefs about Muslims. I'm just pointing out that reality and anti-Muslim spin from Jihadwatch et al aren't on the same planet.

In fact, you should really only be discussing with Berrin. You cancel each other out. ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Thanks for sharing your beliefs. If fantasising about men's faces does it for you, who am I to criticise? ;)

Apart from 'I don't believe the research' do you have anything other constructive comment about the topic?

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
jackpott wrote:Nobody claims Islamists currently are seeking military conquest of the world, duh!


Vs article findings:

Muslim extremists are more concerned with defending against foreign intrusion than foisting Islam on the world, according to a new study of extremist texts. The study suggests that a Western approach of claiming extremists are seeking world domination is misdirected, and instead should seek to counteract claims of victimhood.


I doubt whether the academics invented the claim they are exposing as a myth.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
jackpott wrote:The study concludes that extremists, at least based on how they quote from the Quran, do not reflect "an aggressive offensive foe seeking domination and conquest of unbelievers,

That's right.

The point is that anyone claiming that is the case, is believing a myth. The researchers say that there are people who believe the myth that extremists are engaged in a 'clash of civilisations' and are launching attacks in order to dominate the world.

Bravo for you if you didn't believe this myth.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
shafique ,

I'm currently reading a book by someone who was a member of the Revolutionary Guards who became an agent/spy for the CIA. It goes back to the overthrow of the shah and the placement and rise of Khoimeni. It's a very interesting read and a first hand account of someone who was actually inside and privvy to what was going on. His experience takes place in the 1980s. It may go further as I'm only 3/4 the way through the book.

People who "study" subjects and report back don't come close to people who were actually involved. The premise and foundation of the beliefs of Khoimeni were/is to have Islam dominate the world. The author discusses the expansion of the Revolutionary Guards setting up in other countries. What saddened me was the beauty he spoke of Iran, life before the shah fell from power. Iran was really the Paris of the region back then and was more advanced in freedom during the time of the shah. It was more advanced than Dubai is today. The "lack of freedom" Iran experienced is on the same level as the absence of certain freedoms in Dubai. Comparing the shah to Khoimeni, the shah looks like a boy scout. It really turns out to be "the devil you know (the shah) and the deveil you don't know (Khoimeni)".

I'm going to have to go with that indeed there was, and probably to some degree continues although on a smaller level, a movement by extremists to see Islam the dominant religion/law of the world.
Bora Bora
Dubai OverLord
User avatar
Posts: 8411
Location: At the moment Dubai Forums

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Sounds like an interesting book. What is it called?

However, the research in the OP is actually studying the texts and reasoning of Muslim extremists attacking Western interests. Remember that Iran is opposed to Al Qaida, and after 9/11 actually helped the US with inteligence.

I've read and seen documentaries about the brutality of the Shah regime - and the revolution was a popular one against his brutality. I'm also aware of the rich cultural heritage of Iran and the recent history of it being the Paris of the region (although Beirut would argue it was referred to in this way more often).

But I don't think you're comparing like with like. The Islamic revolution and the aspirations of the Shia Imam is different from the groups under study. The 'world domination of Islam' in relation to Khomeni needs to be examined in context. He is almost certainly talking about Shia version of Islam, and his theological views are no different from others who believe in Messianic salvation in the latter days. Some Christians, for example, look forward to when Jesus returns and the whole world becomes Christian (or dies if they don't convert).

Now, if the revolutionary guards were blowing skyscrapers in New York and trying to impose Islamic domination in the world - then that would indeed undermine the findings of the report. They aren't (to the best of my knowledge).

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
shafique wrote:However, the research in the OP is actually studying the texts and reasoning of Muslim extremists attacking Western interests. Remember that Iran is opposed to Al Qaida, and after 9/11 actually helped the US with inteligence.


To overlook Khomeini does a disservice to the study or is diliberate to prove their point. Islamic world dominance is not a myth. BTW, Khoimeini was always considered a scholar and was never an Imam, until he stepped into power. The book is "A Time to Betray" by Reza Kahlili (not his real name). The Revolutionary Guards were not responsible for blowing up skyscrapers, it would be the extremist thinking and hatred of western countries, behind the RG/Khomieni that influenced the growth of Al Qaieda, the Taliban and all other terrorist groups. It seems to me that Khomieni was the master puppeteer responsible for the growth of extremism in Islam, which is shared by Sunni and Shia muslims. Although they have different views on Islam as a religion, the one thing that binds them is their extremism and determination to see a world under Islam/Sharia rule by whatever means.
Bora Bora
Dubai OverLord
User avatar
Posts: 8411
Location: At the moment Dubai Forums

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth exposed Jul 13, 2012
Thanks - I'll see if I can get hold of the book.

My point was that Khomeni's theological view of a post-Messianic world is no different from that of Christians' view of a world which Christianity rules after the 2nd coming.

The theory that Khomeni is the inspiration for extremism in Islam which seeks world domination is one that can be tested.

Firstly, Al Qaeda was not formed in the wake of the Islamic Revolution - and when it was formed it's leaders were opposed to Shia theology, and the Iranians weren't seen as allies. If anything, Al Qaeda has roots in the teachings of Qutb.

The study in the OP is examining exactly the point about whether the extremists carrying out attacks are doing so out of the desire for world dominance of Islam, or some other reasons. Khomeni's theological views therefore aren't part of the issue here.

Given that they've found that these extremists aren't actually attacking because of a "determination to see a world under Islam/Sharia rule by whatever means" undermines the belief that they are bound with other groups who you say do want this.

I've not seen any evidence that Khomeni was behind Al Qaeda or the Taliban.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:To overlook Khomeini does a disservice to the study or is diliberate to prove their point. Islamic world dominance is not a myth. BTW, Khoimeini was always considered a scholar and was never an Imam, until he stepped into power. The book is "A Time to Betray" by Reza Kahlili (not his real name). The Revolutionary Guards were not responsible for blowing up skyscrapers, it would be the extremist thinking and hatred of western countries, behind the RG/Khomieni that influenced the growth of Al Qaieda, the Taliban and all other terrorist groups. It seems to me that Khomieni was the master puppeteer responsible for the growth of extremism in Islam, which is shared by Sunni and Shia muslims. Although they have different views on Islam as a religion, the one thing that binds them is their extremism and determination to see a world under Islam/Sharia rule by whatever means.
Lot of misinformation in there. He was marja, one of the highest position in shia scholarship (imam), before he became politically active. Wiki article seems more historically acurate than whoever wrote that book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhollah_Khomeini
Nucleus
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1342
Location: Krition

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
pappidopoulos wrote:hmmmm....a book by a spy is hardly a reliable source. whats ur level of education bb?


Funny coming from you - seeing as how you are an avid supporter of the renowned international spy Herve Jaubert. :lol: :lol:

--- Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:52 pm ---

shafique ,

I didn't say Khomeni was behind Al Qaeda or the Taliban. Those organizations developed as a result of the extremism imposed by Khomeni. They may be opposed to each other, but they all share their hatred to western countries. They justify murder "in the name of God".
Bora Bora
Dubai OverLord
User avatar
Posts: 8411
Location: At the moment Dubai Forums

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Ah, Global Domination, why bother, no matter how high you rise , how many organs that you replace with solid gold , how many azzez you tap , everyone becomes worm food
zubbber
Dubai Forums Enthusiast
User avatar
Posts: 91
Location: resurrected

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:I didn't say Khomeni was behind Al Qaeda or the Taliban. Those organizations developed as a result of the extremism imposed by Khomeni. They may be opposed to each other, but they all share their hatred to western countries. They justify murder "in the name of God".


But the Taliban and Al Qaeda don't look to Iran for inspiration - but to earlier 'Islamist' theories coming out of Egypt.

Now, Khomeni did indeed support the IRA and other groups he viewed as struggling against oppressors - but he didn't give overt support to the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan (pre-cursors of the Taliban) BECAUSE they were Islamist (and Sunni). (And supporting western separatists, and Catholic ones at that, could be viewed as not hating the west, perhaps?)

Perhaps you're thinking of Hezbollah in Lebanon - they were indeed inspired by the revolution, are Shia and came into being after Israel invaded Lebanon. But Al Qaeda and the Taliban, I think your confusing some broad similarities with causality.

I agree that a common theme is using religion to justify the killings of others - that's what makes them extremists. However, the point of this thread is to show that the reasons for the killing (even where they use the Quran) is not world domination, but rather the sense of victimhood and fighting oppressors - which are also part of the Quran. It is not 'hatred to western countries', sic, but rather the points raised in the research.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
European wrote:I consider you to be just as extreme as Berrin. Only he probably has a beard.
:)But man in beard looks very handsome and sturdy.

--- Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:36 pm ---

pappidopoulos wrote:hmmmm....a book by a spy is hardly a reliable source. whats ur level of education bb?
I second this. He too is propagandist to topple islamic regime in Iran just as western alliance tried to topple Ahmedinajad under green revolution movement..

This is all about Kahlili: After the 9/11 attack, Reza Kahlili activated a handful of sources within Iran and once again contacted the CIA. He continues as an active voice for a free Iran and works toward ending the thugocracy of the mullah's regime. He has written several articles for various media expressing his opinions and hope for a free Iran. (sounds like the choir of the zionist western regimes)
Berrin
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1390

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth exposed Jul 13, 2012
Of course, no one believed terrorists were on the cusp of world domination with the newest homemade bomb - not even terrorists.

If you ask the wrong questions you get the wrong results.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:Those organizations developed as a result of the extremism imposed by Khomeni. They may be opposed to each other, but they all share their hatred to western countries. They justify murder "in the name of God".


Who am I supposed to believe BB? I think all the extremist retaliation from muslims, is a backlash to atheist cold war domination under zionist world governance..

Those organisations were not developed for extremism they were developed to undermine either the communist or the capitalist block affair/dominance in any of those countries..

http://www.rense.com/general14/rise.htm

.

--- Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:55 pm ---

By the way noone hates the western countries but the regimes in them that oppreses every muslim nation under zionist control...
Berrin
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1390

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
European wrote:More conspiracy theories! How funny!!


Oh my. Theories - as in multiple?

Maybe your education stopped short of you learning what a conspiracy theory is.

Conspiracy Theory: a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy+theory
Bora Bora
Dubai OverLord
User avatar
Posts: 8411
Location: At the moment Dubai Forums

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
:D

Ah, BB - I have to say, when someone mentions Herve - I immediately think of all the crazee conspiracy theories he had. Perhaps our friend had a similar (subliminal?) reaction? :D :D

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
Yes he did. He was hilarious.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Muslim World Domination: Myth Exposed Jul 13, 2012
LOL - whatever you say European. ;)

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk