Dubai State Of Affairs

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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 01, 2009
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/dubai-digits

Brits got reasons to worry..

Latest statistics which i stumbled upon..very much explains the adverse reaction across the world markets..

Creditors:

Of United Arab Emirates (By Origin via Credit Suisse citing Bank for International Settlements):

United Kingdom: $50.2 billiont
France: $11.3 billion
Germany: $10.6 billion
United States: $10.6 billion
Japan: $ 9.0 billion
Switzerland: $ 4.6 billion
Netherlands: $ 4.5 billion

Of United Arab Emirates (By Entity via Credit Suisse, citing Emirates Bank Association):

HSBC Bank Middle East Limited: $17.0 billion
Standard Chartered Bank: $ 7.8 billion
Barlays Bank Plc: $ 3.6 billion
ABN-Amro (RBS): $ 2.1 billion
Arab Bank Plc: $ 2.1 billion
Citibank: $ 1.9 billion
Bank of Baroda: $ 1.8 billion
Bank Saderat Iran: $ 1.7 billion
BNP Parabas: $ 1.7 billion
Lloyds: $ 1.6 billion

xdude
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 01, 2009
benwj wrote:
dresden wrote:
sage & onion wrote:For those who like to bash Dubai at every given opportunity try this on for size:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat-a.htm

The total debt of the USA $ 57 Trillion - - and soaring

or how about;

£2trillion - the terrifying total of our national debt... that's £33,000 for every man, woman and child in Britain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itain.html


Sage, you usually have pretty level headed posts... until this one.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, in which you are not really comparing the US (its structure, population, ability to repay etc.) with Dubai (which is a grain of sand in comparison)?

Say it ain't so.

I must be missing something. I would expect the ability for a country to pay off its debts has something to do with its GDP? The figures make interesting reading regardless of what you think:

DUBAI
GDP $174.6 billion
Debt (estimated) $85 billion (48.7% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $68,493

USA
GDP $14.26 trillion
Debt $13.454 trillion (94.3% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $43,793

Germany
GDP $2.918 trillion
Debt 5.208 trillion (178.5% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $63,263

France
GDP $2.128 trillion
Debt 5.021 trillion (236% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $78,387

UK
GDP 2.226 trillion
Debt 9.087 trillion (408.3% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $148,702

And the winner is...
Ireland
GDP $188.4 billion
Debt 2.386 trillion (1,267% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $567,805


This actually puts things more or less in perspective and makes you think why are they constantly talking about Dubai, maybe it helps to divert the attention away from themselves.
sage & onion
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 01, 2009
benwj wrote:I must be missing something. I would expect the ability for a country to pay off its debts has something to do with its GDP? The figures make interesting reading regardless of what you think:

DUBAI
GDP $174.6 billion
Debt (estimated) $85 billion (48.7% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $68,493

USA
GDP $14.26 trillion
Debt $13.454 trillion (94.3% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $43,793

Germany
GDP $2.918 trillion
Debt 5.208 trillion (178.5% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $63,263

France
GDP $2.128 trillion
Debt 5.021 trillion (236% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $78,387

UK
GDP 2.226 trillion
Debt 9.087 trillion (408.3% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $148,702

And the winner is...
Ireland
GDP $188.4 billion
Debt 2.386 trillion (1,267% of GDP)
Debt per capita: $567,805


Dream on mate...

Next time make sure you have your currencies right:

Dubai GDP of 175 billion should be marked in AED, not dollars! (In dollars: 175/3.68 = $48 bn)
Now, take another look at debt to GDP ratios...(85/48 = 178% of GDP)

And then, consider you are at par with Germany...the fourth largest economy in the world, well diversified. Great manufacturing base. Social security and what not more (Dubai is way worse off mateys)

:idea:

ps: http://www.ameinfo.com/67802.html
RobbyG
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 03, 2009
So things are a little worse than that.
Just a tip: Its not a very good idea to run down a person who owes you money before they have paid it back. Probably a better idea to wait until after they have paid it.
benwj
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 03, 2009
benwj wrote:So things are a little worse than that.
Just a tip: Its not a very good idea to run down a person who owes you money before they have paid it back. Probably a better idea to wait until after they have paid it.


Considerably worse that that...(note that your figures are both public (government) and private sector debt combined)

My tip: You can deposit ''my tip' at bankaccount: 12345678
If you don't pay, I know where to find you Benjiboy :D
RobbyG
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 03, 2009
RobbyG wrote:
benwj wrote:So things are a little worse than that.
Just a tip: Its not a very good idea to run down a person who owes you money before they have paid it back. Probably a better idea to wait until after they have paid it.


Considerably worse that that...(note that your figures are both public (government) and private sector debt combined)

My tip: You can deposit ''my tip' at bankaccount: 12345678
If you don't pay, I know where to find you Benjiboy :D


No worries Bobbyboy, but but you are assuming that I have money to deposit. I'm skint, like the rest of Dubai.
benwj
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 03, 2009
:lol:
RobbyG
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 04, 2009
RobbyG wrote:
benwj wrote:So things are a little worse than that.
Just a tip: Its not a very good idea to run down a person who owes you money before they have paid it back. Probably a better idea to wait until after they have paid it.


Considerably worse that that...(note that your figures are both public (government) and private sector debt combined)

My tip: You can deposit ''my tip' at bankaccount: 12345678
If you don't pay, I know where to find you Benjiboy :D



robbyG, being unemployed does pay off !! it made you pay so much attention to a “3rd world camel riders country” what do you know. :lol:
uaekid
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 04, 2009
Yeah, you might be wondering why I still want to work in such debt-laden sandpile... :D
I don't know exactly what it is. Lets say, 'there's an attraction' to Dubai. Its an interesting place to discover.

As long as my personal freedom is not in jeopardy...we'll manage right...together with the right employer logically... :P
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Dec 22, 2009
UPDATE:

Dubai needs creativity to pay debt without taxes

And while asset sales are on the cards, Dubai has to find new revenue sources at least to pay off its own debt.

"In the short term, such an announcement (of taxes) could have a big psychological effect within the community of foreign players in the country," said Philippe Dauba-Pantanacce, senior economist at Standard Chartered bank in Dubai.

REVENUE GENERATORS

One option for Dubai to generate revenues could be to raise government fees and charges or introduce more paid services similar to its road toll system, or business licensing fees, analysts say.

"These so-called 'charges' and 'fees' are in essence tax," said Ehsan Khoman, a Dubai-based economist.

"While increasing these sort of indirect taxes during an economic downturn will be a bitter pill to swallow, it will be certainly be more accepted than an outright income tax."

Some, however, doubt such short-term fixes can work to pay off Dubai's billions of dollars in debt.


Full article about revenue generators (or taxes, whatever you want to call them additional charges), see here.
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Jan 28, 2010
Seems like the worst has yet to come. This move is aggravating an already tense standoff between Dubai and the ratings agency. And also shaking the trust of account holder companies and individuals with this bank. :?

Emirates NBD to stop using services of S&P

By Simeon Kerr in Dubai and Andrew England in Abu Dhabi

Published: January 27 2010 23:52 | Last updated: January 27 2010 23:52

Emirates NBD, one of the largest lenders in the Gulf, said on Wednesday that it would stop using the services of Standard & Poors, the ratings agency.

The announcement came in the same week that S&P’s relationship with Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group, the commercial arm of Dubai Holding, a conglomerate owned by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the ruler, ended in dispute.

S&P on Monday said it had downgraded and withdrawn DHCOG’s rating owing to poor disclosure from the conglomerate.

DHCOG responded later the same day by saying it had dropped S&P because of its “lack of understanding” of the conglomerate’s business and “factually incorrect” statements. Dubai Holding declined to elaborate on these inaccuracies.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d2121002-0b59-11df-8232-00144feabdc0.html
Ghalib
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Jan 28, 2010
Great move by NBD. S&P made a hughe mistake in not giving Dubai the highest ratings of all
BlackburnRovers
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Jan 28, 2010
BlackburnRovers wrote:Great move by NBD. S&P made a hughe mistake in not giving Dubai the highest ratings of all


That was funny. :mrgreen:

Dubai thinks it can 'dictate' the rating agencies to obtain easy credit once again...not gonna happen.
Especially after this global financial crisis, credibility has to be earned. The time of easy triple A ratings is over!

Image
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Jan 29, 2010
If you don’t like the messenger, shoot him. Rather than face reality, Dubai tells S&P to ‘get lost’...http://www.ianfraser.org/?p=1019
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs - Rumors! Feb 12, 2010
Just coming in. Is a bankruptcy of Nakheel imminent?

Rumors are spreading, perhaps insiders are talking. Pray tell you didn't buy off-plan property just recently... :P

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rememb ... 40-bps-day
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 14, 2010
Dubai World may offer creditors 60 cents

Dubai World may offer creditors 60 cents on the US dollar guaranteed by the emirate's government as part of a deal to reschedule $22bn of debt, according to newswire Zawya Dow Jones.

Under the terms of the deal, banks including HSBC, Royal Bank of Scotland, Standard Chartered and Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank, will receive 60% of the money they're owed by the troubled conglomerate after seven years, the newswire said, citing two sources close to the deal.

The offer, which pays no interest, will come with a sovereign guarantee, the newswire said. An alternative offer involves creditors receiving full payment, including 40% of their Dubai World debt in the form of assets in Nakheel, the company's property unit, with no government guarantee over the same seven-year period.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/581464-dubai-world-creditors-could-get-60---report

http://en.rian.ru/business/20100214/157878164.html
Ghalib
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 14, 2010
With that kind of final offer, as an investor I would slowly sell all of my assets in Dubai and never come back...EVER. I wouldn't even touch it again with a ten-foot pole!

Sovereign guarantee doesn't mean crapper. Just look around the world today, governments can only borrow money on favorable terms if they have a history of good credit. Dubai doesn't have that, let alone a steady cashflow to pay off future liabilities.

What in the 'Dubai World' are they thinking!! :D
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 14, 2010
60 cents on dollar after 7 years without interest!!!
u gotta be kiddin me...
xdude
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 14, 2010
After this what investor or bank is going to put any money in Dubai, and who is going to buy any properties, so, without any cash coming in, in 7 years, their offer for 60cts on the dollar will turn to nada.
herve
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 15, 2010
Those getting 60 cents on the dollar are considered very lucky lol.. Been around 7 years or more and the Dewan in Abu Dhabi has not paid me a single Fils yet and neither has the local crook. Collecting money from local crooks is almost impossible. They promise to pay you later on down the road and then down the road they make your life a complete misery. Everyday after when the time comes up they come up with a different excuse just to delay the payment to you. Your calls will never be answered,faxes never replied to and emails ignored. It is like talking to a wall after but what else can you expect from a crook after?? As I said before, he works with a crook or backs a crook up (pardons) is no less of a crook then the crook himself.
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Re: Dubai State of Affairs Feb 18, 2010
On December 14, 2009 the Government of Dubai, under the patronage of Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE, issued Decree 57 ("The Decree") exclusively to supervise existing and future formal reorganization and restructuring of the Dubai World Group of companies (DWG). DWG manages and supervises a portfolio of businesses and projects for the Dubai government across a wide range of industry segments, and projects to promote the emirate's economic growth.

The decree is a customized version (with specific alterations) of the existing Insolvency Law and the Insolvency Regulations of the Dubai International Financial Center (DIFC), which is regarded as cost-effective, efficient, timely, and balances the interests of debtors and creditors. It features a comprehensive financial restructuring and reorganization framework to manage the disputes related to resolving the financial position of Dubai World and its subsidiaries.

DWG is a holding company that enjoys a special status within Dubai. It was created by royal decree and, as such, is not incorporated under the UAE Federal Commercial Companies Law and, therefore, does not have the ability to seek protection under the provision of the UAE Commercial Code that governs bankruptcy and insolvency. Due to the company’s vast geographical coverage, unique status, and complex structure, the decree seeks to create a special legal regime to streamline any restructuring that the company and its subsidiaries would undergo.

Among other alterations to the DIFC laws and regulations, the decree establishes a tribunal of three to five internationally recognized judges, which will be empowered to supervise, and authorized to adjudicate, the financial reorganization or restructuring of Dubai World and its subsidiaries. The tribunal is initially composed of three senior international judges from the DIFC Courts including Sir Anthony Evans, Chief Justice of the DIFC Courts and former High Court Judge of England and Wales, Michael Hwang, SC, Deputy Chief Justice of the DIFC Courts and former Judicial Commissioner of the Supreme Court of Singapore, and Justice Sir John Murray Chadwick, Judge of the DIFC Courts and former Judge of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales.

Aside from establishing the Tribunal, the procedures set out in Decree 57 establish the means by which Dubai World and subsidiaries may enter into voluntary arrangements with their creditors. It also establishes a legal code, based on the Insolvency laws, rules, and regulations of the DIFC, as these have been found to be comprehensive and in line with internationally accepted standards.

However, the Government modified the aforementioned to include provisions to provide, among other things, an automatic stay or moratorium that applies to all creditors, provisions that require creditors to submit proof of claims within 60 days after the date of the notification to the Tribunal (which also begins a period of 120 days for the company to propose a Voluntary Arrangement to its creditors), and provisions to allow the Tribunal to approve priority financing during the course of a reorganization. In addition, the aforementioned laws, rules, and regulations are in English rather than Arabic, which the Government determined to be appropriate to complex reorganizations involving many international investors and stakeholders.

Dr. Lowai M.K. Belhoul, the Director General of the Legal Affairs Department of the Government of Dubai, stated: "The Decree establishes a clear, transparent and effective legal framework incorporating international best practices in restructuring." The Decree was seen by legal commentators as a welcome move towards providing a systematic approach to the restructuring of Dubai World and its subsidiaries. However, how this new law will play out in practice remains uncertain. Should this be a successful approach, it could influence other countries in the region to further their reform efforts as many pledged in the Abu Dhabi Declaration in May, 2009.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/189062- ... urce=email
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