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desertdudeshj wrote:

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, ...

Jews are clearly not a race.

...

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Seems pretty clear cut to me - Jewish group says 'Jews are clearly not a race' - fanbois think they know better.

Cheers,
Shafique

I think it will be a fool's errand to attempt to explain this to some of the members here, but let's recall that 'race' is still based on 19th century classifications using phenotypical (appearance) clustering to classify peoples.

People with black skin and some other features were classified as Negroids.

People with yellow skin and other outward features were Mongoloid.

And people with fair skin and specific features were Caucasoid.

Due to the advances in genetics and biochemistry and other fields in molecular biology we know that these divisions are no longer satisfactory, though they may persist in typical discussions on race.

However, the fact is, for example, that it would be illogical to classify East Africans as Negroid (and not Caucasoid) since they are closer genetically to southern Europeans than they are to West Africans - and so on and so forth.

With this in mind, when members talk about race in this thread it is obviously a substitute word for 'ethnic group'.

Are European Jews genetically different from other Europeans to be classified as a separate genetic group? Since under a microscope European Jews are genetically different from other Europeans that they can be distinguished from other Europeans, it would hardly be inconsistent if some choose to classify European Jews separately from Europeans - just as East Africans were grouped apart from southern Europeans, though any substantial distinction between East Africans and Southern European is probably less than that between European Jews and Southern Europeans. After all, skin color is one of the quickest evolutionary adaptations according to scientists and may take only a few thousands years (perhaps less?) for a people to evolve lighter or darker skin if relocated to a region where the sun's intensity and their exposure is significantly different from where they once were.

The genetic differences between between European Jews and many Europeans - in-spite of centuries of cross breeding - are still great enough that one is able to distinguish between a European Jew and a so-called non-European Jew - and I say so-called because almost every European must have at least trace amounts of Jewish genes. And, needless to say, the opposite is more than true for European Jews. Despite this, the differences are significant enough to distinguish a Jew from a non-Jew.

For those who deny differences in intelligence, athleticism, etc between races ('ethnic groups') but accept genetic differences acquired by evolution for skin color, why would evolution stop at skin color only?

Are those (who have been mostly Muslim so far) who are adamant that all races are equal in each and every aspect people who simply deny evolution from the get-go? If so, at least their beliefs are consistent. But if you accept micro evolution, then why reject differences between races and ethnic groups out of hand?

kanelli wrote:So basically, you can't explain it.

Look, all Arab people and those with Arab ancestry of any sort would have to live in an isolated area and everyone would need to be marrying and reproducing with their first cousins for a long time in order to create a smaller gene pool that could destroy the Arab population and wipe out "Arab" genes. I think we can agree that this is not possible. Even the existence of the CGAS which provides genetic counselling to couples contributes to the slowing of the impact of these genetic problems in the Arab population.

You refused to see the reality kanelli, arabs dont need to be on an isolated island to marry within their family, already 40% average of arabs in the middle east marry their first cousin and they have been doing it for a long time.
The CAGS was created because of the increasing impact, and it is not slowing down. Look who is giving the example,
It is amazing the denial and double language, Sheikh Hamdam created the CAGS but he married his 1st cousin. Do what I say , but don't say what I do, so typical of arabs.
Look in the end you can deny it and spin it around all day, you only harm your own race, in the end it is arabs who die or make degenerate babies, not whites.

shafique wrote:- fanbois think they know better.

Cheers,
Shafique

Until coming to DF I had never heard the term 'fanbois'. Why do muslims feel the need for name calling?
We have Sym calling everyone, bar people who he agrees with, idiots and Shafique refers to everyone he disagrees with as fanbois.

I've googled the term.

fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how perfect thier console of choice is, and how inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking.

From my point of view, Shafique, Sym and DDS could fit this bill.

I still don't get the need for name calling. it's all rather playground. it's no wonder the Muslims can't get on with anyone else but there own kind. They're pretty childish when people don't agree with them.

herve wrote:

kanelli wrote:So basically, you can't explain it.

Look, all Arab people and those with Arab ancestry of any sort would have to live in an isolated area and everyone would need to be marrying and reproducing with their first cousins for a long time in order to create a smaller gene pool that could destroy the Arab population and wipe out "Arab" genes. I think we can agree that this is not possible. Even the existence of the CGAS which provides genetic counselling to couples contributes to the slowing of the impact of these genetic problems in the Arab population.

You refused to see the reality kanelli, arabs dont need to be on an isolated island to marry within their family, already 40% average of arabs in the middle east marry their first cousin and they have been doing it for a long time.
The CAGS was created because of the increasing impact, and it is not slowing down. Look who is giving the example,
It is amazing the denial and double language, Sheikh Hamdam created the CAGS but he married his 1st cousin. Do what I say , but don't say what I do, so typical of arabs.
Look in the end you can deny it and spin it around all day, you only harm your own race, in the end it is arabs who die or make degenerate babies, not whites.

Herve, the reality is that you know next to nothing about genetics and are using your clear hatred of Arabs to make ridiculous opinions that are not based on fact. "Arab genes" and Arabs are not going to die out.

As for EH, you keep repeating yourself about how some races or ethnic groups are more intelligent, have different muscle fibres, different genetic characteristics that make them better or worse at some tasks etc. and you expect some sort of attention or confirmation from others. The topic of the thread is about the white race dying out, which should elicit discussion about genetics and the feasibility for "white genes" to become less and less common or extict. If people don't want to discuss with you about how some races or ethnic groups may be better or worse at some things it doesn't make them unintelligent. People are simply focusing on other aspects to the discussion. You can continue to think you are the most intelligent poster here, it is always good to love yourself and have good self-esteem.

This thread started on the topic of the white race, yet somehow we get onto Arabs and Jews again. I'm sick of so many topics suffering from these biased slants.

Godwins law

kanelli wrote: "Arab genes" and Arabs are not going to die out.
This thread started on the topic of the white race, yet somehow we get onto Arabs and Jews again. I'm sick of so many topics suffering from these biased slants.

This topic of the white race going extinct is non sense, let go of it and look at yourself in the mirror
there is much info online about moozies having trouble with their falling birth rate .
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... 2D20110127

I'm a white Canadian atheist.

kanelli wrote:If you studied biology extensively, can you please explain to me what an Arab gene is?

Kanelli I dont have time for this, if you wanted to learn you would ask CAGS, you ask me because you dont want to learn ....you want to deny there is an arab gene and denigrate those who claim there is one.
Anyways Let me try....this for you
A gene is a location of a genomic sequence, a tiny bit of DNA's, humans have 100,000 genes in a chromosome.
DNA is a nucleic acid, very long macro molecules that basically store information. 4 different acids that combined together make trillions and trillions of combinations,
Genetic is the study of how these genes combine together, study their history, and identify origins and ancestors so to speak, and see how they mutated and evolved. Geneticists look at certain portions of the chromosome, not all of it.
the first portion you look into is the allele: which are two or more forms of genes in different location on a chromosome
then you look at the combination of alleles to form a haplotype.
These haplotypes are sorted out in groups, group of people who have a common ancestor, common traits, and are called haplogroups, one groupe of these haplogroups is called the Y-DNA haplogroup
The Y-DNA haplogroup related to arabs is called Haplogroup J Y-DNA M304. which originated from the arab peninsula.
This is what define the arab gene.

herve wrote:The Y-DNA haplogroup related to arabs is called Haplogroup J Y-DNA M304. which originated from the arab peninsula.
This is what define the arab gene.

Great work Herve! Now, if according to your numbers, some 40% of Arabs are marrying 1st cousins, how long will it take for the extinction of the J Y-DNA M304 haplogroup? Don't forget to factor in Arabs who have married outside their families and Arabs who married non-Arabs. Any references to research you might have to support your Arab gene extinction theory would always be appreciated.

herve - what proportion of Ashkenazi Jews have the Haplogroup J Y-DNA M304? Are these guys Arab, or Jews?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:herve - what proportion of Ashkenazi Jews have the Haplogroup J Y-DNA M304? Are these guys Arab, or Jews?

Cheers,
Shafique

I dont know, most have the haplogroup G Y-DNA, not J, besides there is no specific genetic studies for this genome because it does not carry genetic degenerescence.
Even if they were J Y DNA, there is no problem because they dont marry their cousins.
CAGS was created to study the arab genome because of the impact of consanguinity in arab countries.

-- Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:38 am --

kanelli wrote: Great work Herve! Now, if according to your numbers, some 40% of Arabs are marrying 1st cousins, how long will it take for the extinction of the J Y-DNA M304 haplogroup? Don't forget to factor in Arabs who have married outside their families and Arabs who married non-Arabs. Any references to research you might have to support your Arab gene extinction theory would always be appreciated.

Kanelli, you dont get it, I did not research anything, these are not my conclusions, but from arab authorities themselves. 40% is not my number, but an official statistic.
I am just in the front seat watching and reading the news, amazed to see how a population is killing itself because of their dark ages culture and ing behavior. Leaving them with a choice, change their culture or die.
I beleive they (arabs in the GCC) will not change, so when you put together all facts, not only genetics, I think they will disapear, swallowed up by other populations, replaced.
What s killing them?
Consanguinity
Diabetes (Glutony and sloth)
Cancer, (cervical for women and transmitted by their unfaithfull husbands, tobacco for men, 1 load of shisha kills 14 times faster than 1 cigarette)
Add the fact that in 50 years arabs will ALL go broke when oil runs out, so they wont be able to support themselves
So when I read here that the white race is going extinct I cant help it but to laugh.
In addition US census just published their world report last week, they concluded that by 2050, white race is steady, Asian and Indians are up, arabs are down, Russians way down.

Bethsmum wrote:

We've been trying to explain this boring fact to idiots like EH, Herve, and FD, but they seem to be extremely so passionate about Jews to the extent that they exaggerate in a way that even regular jews won't.

Sym, just because people don't agree with your point of view or don't see the world as you do, they are not idiots. People are entitled to express their views, whether you agree with them or not.

BM, I recall Chocs thread about dogs which you didn't appreciate and posted harsh comments which annoyed her. Chocs passed you an advice, which you didn't listen to, and that is if you disagree with something, then you don't have to make others who believe in it feel bad about it. Back then I totally disagreed with you, but didn't want to interfere because I try to avoid being nosey, and judgmental.

Bethsmum wrote: People are entitled to express their views, whether you agree with them or not.

I think FD, EH, and Herve are total idiots! The biggest idiots I've ever met
Whether you agree with me or not, I'm totally entitled to my very own views and you got no right to jump, judge, and lecture me about principles. You're crossing the line of your own principles you're lecturing me on.

You don't know my history with EH, and FD (and u don't have to), to judge/lecture me with your principles.
Whether my views are based on this topic or other topics, or out of sarcasm, I'm totally free to picture them the way I want. My views towards them does not necessarily reflect the reality according to them or their friends.

Now the common factor between Chocs's thread and this thread is that you're acting like the police women of the forum issuing people random fines everytime you dislike something they said. My advice to you is to avoid judging people randomly.

Bethsmum wrote: fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how perfect thier console of choice is, and how inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking. ... From my point of view, Shafique, Sym and DDS could fit this bill.

I'm not judging you, but can't you see how you're contradicting yourself?
Your calling others names as well, and it doesn't make you look any better. You don't ask others not to lie, when you're a liar yourself. (excuse my example).

Bethsmum wrote: it's no wonder the Muslims can't get on with anyone else but there own kind. They're pretty childish when people don't agree with them

.

What in hell does this has to do with Islam or any other religion??
If that's true then how come u got Muslim friends? Also frequently visiting a Muslim city (Dubai) which you got a place of your own in it already? Now tell me who's being childish here?

Talking about principles of morals and ethics, what to expect from a person like you judging a quarter of the world's population, just because you disagree with 3 people who come from totally different backgrounds!

However you're totally FREE to believe in whatever you want, but make sure you fit yourself with your own principles & standards at first before lecturing others.

herve wrote:

shafique wrote:herve - what proportion of Ashkenazi Jews have the Haplogroup J Y-DNA M304? Are these guys Arab, or Jews?

Cheers,
Shafique

I dont know, most have the haplogroup G Y-DNA, not J, besides there is no specific genetic studies for this genome because it does not carry genetic degenerescence.

Even if they were J Y DNA, there is no problem because they dont marry their cousins.

So, are these* Ashkenazi Jews who carry the 'Arab Gene' - are they Jewish Arabs or Arab Jews?

(*the ones with the J Haplogroup. wiki says it is about 20%, but I couldn't immediately see an exact figure - it says '1 in 5')

Cheers,
Shafique

herve wrote:So when I read here that the white race is going extinct I cant help it but to laugh.
In addition US census just published their world report last week, they concluded that by 2050, white race is steady, Asian and Indians are up, arabs are down, Russians way down.

Herve, I read the same article. It referred to population, not race. The article I posted indicated that the white race in the US will be the minority in the future.

herve wrote:I am just in the front seat watching and reading the news, amazed to see how a population is killing itself because of their dark ages culture and ing behavior. Leaving them with a choice, change their culture or die.
I beleive they (arabs in the GCC) will not change, so when you put together all facts, not only genetics, I think they will disapear, swallowed up by other populations, replaced.
What s killing them?
Consanguinity
Diabetes (Glutony and sloth)
Cancer, (cervical for women and transmitted by their unfaithfull husbands, tobacco for men, 1 load of shisha kills 14 times faster than 1 cigarette)
Add the fact that in 50 years arabs will ALL go broke when oil runs out, so they wont be able to support themselves
So when I read here that the white race is going extinct I cant help it but to laugh.
In addition US census just published their world report last week, they concluded that by 2050, white race is steady, Asian and Indians are up, arabs are down, Russians way down.

What I understand is that you are a completely ignorant person. Arabs and their genes are not going to die out.

What is the difference between symmetric's hateful posts about Jews and your hateful posts about Arabs? They are all about personal bias, with few facts, illogical conclusions, and a major lack of perspective or humanity.

symmetric wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:

We've been trying to explain this boring fact to idiots like EH, Herve, and FD, but they seem to be extremely so passionate about Jews to the extent that they exaggerate in a way that even regular jews won't.

Sym, just because people don't agree with your point of view or don't see the world as you do, they are not idiots. People are entitled to express their views, whether you agree with them or not.

BM, I recall Chocs thread about dogs which you didn't appreciate and posted harsh comments which annoyed her. Chocs passed you an advice, which you didn't listen to, and that is if you disagree with something, then you don't have to make others who believe in it feel bad about it. Back then I totally disagreed with you, but didn't want to interfere because I try to avoid being nosey, and judgmental.

Bethsmum wrote: People are entitled to express their views, whether you agree with them or not.

I think FD, EH, and Herve are total idiots! The biggest idiots I've ever met
Whether you agree with me or not, I'm totally entitled to my very own views and you got no right to jump, judge, and lecture me about principles. You're crossing the line of your own principles you're lecturing me on.

You don't know my history with EH, and FD (and u don't have to), to judge/lecture me with your principles.
Whether my views are based on this topic or other topics, or out of sarcasm, I'm totally free to picture them the way I want. My views towards them does not necessarily reflect the reality according to them or their friends.

Now the common factor between Chocs's thread and this thread is that you're acting like the police women of the forum issuing people random fines everytime you dislike something they said. My advice to you is to avoid judging people randomly.

Bethsmum wrote: fanbois typically spend most of their free time telling anyone who will listen how perfect thier console of choice is, and how inferior all other products are. fanbois will not stop annoying other people until everyone they know is converted to their way of thinking. ... From my point of view, Shafique, Sym and DDS could fit this bill.

I'm not judging you, but can't you see how you're contradicting yourself?
Your calling others names as well, and it doesn't make you look any better. You don't ask others not to lie, when you're a liar yourself. (excuse my example).

Bethsmum wrote: it's no wonder the Muslims can't get on with anyone else but there own kind. They're pretty childish when people don't agree with them

.

What in hell does this has to do with Islam or any other religion??
If that's true then how come u got Muslim friends? Also frequently visiting a Muslim city (Dubai) which you got a place of your own in it already? Now tell me who's being childish here?

Talking about principles of morals and ethics, what to expect from a person like you judging a quarter of the world's population, just because you disagree with 3 people who come from totally different backgrounds!

However you're totally FREE to believe in whatever you want, but make sure you fit yourself with your own principles & standards at first before lecturing others.

Sym, While I appreciate the new Sym, I haven't forgotten your past stance of 'Lets kill all Israelis'.
Please don't talk to me about ethics and contradictions and being harsh.

Bah ! Just ignore Hervy, he's an anti semite.

kanelli wrote:What is the difference between symmetric's hateful posts about Jews and your hateful posts about Arabs? They are all about personal bias, with few facts, illogical conclusions, and a major lack of perspective or humanity.

Excuse me Kanelli, Sym has NEGLECTED his horrible views against Jews and I'm adopting harmonic and peaceful approach. I already stopped posting in the political section, and I declared that already in front of everyone.

I would highly appreciate it if you'd stop using me as an example to compare with other bad people.

Thank You.

symmetric wrote:

kanelli wrote:What is the difference between symmetric's hateful posts about Jews and your hateful posts about Arabs? They are all about personal bias, with few facts, illogical conclusions, and a major lack of perspective or humanity.

Excuse me Kanelli, Sym has NEGLECTED his horrible views against Jews and I'm adopting harmonic and peaceful approach. I already stopped posting in the political section, and I declared that already in front of everyone.

I would highly appreciate it if you'd stop using me as an example to compare with other bad people.

Thank You.

Sym, you have to excuse someone who constantly lives in the past and is always, and I mean always, correct in oh so many ways. Least she be reminded about her foul and abusive attacks - oh, wait!!! that didn't happen did it??? No need to explain yourself as we have seen that you have left all that behind.

Bethsmum wrote:Sym, While I appreciate the new Sym, I haven't forgotten your past stance of 'Lets kill all Israelis'.
Please don't talk to me about ethics and contradictions and being harsh.

I'm not following a time line for you to let got your grudges. I have literally battled the ego in me, and declared my new change in thoughts in front of everyone. I did mention that I'm not doing it to please anyone, because I know there will always be people who'll never be satisfied, thus I chose to dedicate this change to myself and for the sake of peace of humanity.

I don't hate Israelis anymore, nor I wish to see any of them get killed, or any other human being. I was inspired by Ghandi and not sure if you watched his movie, but I'm (with no exaggeration) willing to sponsor an Israeli orphan as much as I'm willing to sponsor a Palestinian orphan, and that's Ghandi's approach of peace.

Perhaps you don't use terms such as "let's kill all Muslims" , or "let's kill all Palestinians", but you can't help not expressing your hatred towards Muslims and some other group of people, and everyone knows that already.
if you refuse to change your views, and refuse to let go your grudges, then what makes you different than any other hateful person? I feel so pitiful for you, and perhaps its due time YOU change, instead of making others feel bad about their mistakes in the past.

You are contradicting yourself. You're asking others to change, yet you refuse to change.
You are lecturing others in ethics and morals, while you need one yourself.

Excellent post bro ! Wallahi, mia fil mia.

Sym, I don't hold grudges and I certainly don't hold any grudge against you, I'm pleased you saw the error of your ways and don't hate Israelis anymore.
You are right, I have never said death to anyone, on this forum, nor in real life. I don't hate Muslims nor anyone (except my daughter's husband), I just have a problem seeing where you all come from sometimes.
I have a particularly good friend who is a Muslim, I don't hate him, quite the opposite actually.

sym, I know you are beginning to change some of your views. I was merely pointing out that Herve's comments are as hateful as the ones you used to write. It is easy for so many to crap on you for those previous posts, but Herve gets a free pass from certain posters.

Ummm I don't know what's goin on here, but thank you MCL and Sym for your nice words about persians!

Eftikhare ma be entiha ast
Persian and proud of every bit of it!

-- Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:49 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:Excellent post bro ! Wallahi, mia fil mia.

Shukran habibi

kanelli wrote:sym, I know you are beginning to change some of your views. I was merely pointing out that Herve's comments are as hateful as the ones you used to write. It is easy for so many to crap on you for those previous posts, but Herve gets a free pass from certain posters.

not hatred kanelli, facts, supported by hundreds of links, just quoting a few

Arab countries have the highest prevalence of birth defects in the world, according to the March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation Report in 2006.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5700301_arabic-diseases.html

disproportionately high level of genetic disease, at least partly due to the prevalence of first cousin marriages.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/ ... sequenced/

To avoid the negative impact of the project, Arab states must establish adequate legal measures and ethical guidelines as well as analysing the social impact of the availability of personal genetic information before delivering them to the public and medical communities."
http://www.scidev.net/en/news/scientist ... enome.html

Arab world- High consanguinity rates—25-60% of all marriages are consanguineous, and the rate of first cousin marriages is high
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618440/

Genetic disorders are common in Arab countries and account for a substantial proportion of physical and mental handicap
Oxford Monographs on Medical Genetics on Genetic Disorders among Arab Populations

Arab nations have some of the highest rates of genetic disorders in the world, according to the Centre for Arab Genomic Studies (CAGS).

On another note, I can only imagine the fury and calls for racism if it had been a western organization to study the arab race gene, but because arabs did it, it cannot create a controversy regarding race as a method for classifying humans.
It is a risky business anyways, and it should be strickly controlled, one who studies genetic dispositions and weaknesses to certain diseases in a certain group could very well engineer a "vaccine" that kills only this group of people leaving the others unharmed, very dangerous studies indeed which could easily be corrupt.
However I wonder how arab scientist are able to study genetic at all, do you know that Pigs are chosen over primates for several reasons. First, Pigs breed rapidly and are easy and cost effective to raise. Second, they are free of all known diseases. yup no diseases , Genetic engineering in pigs would allow pig cells to produce human proteins that prevent the pig organ from being rejected. Of course xenotransplantation from pigs is not going to happen with arabs.

-- Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:55 pm --

shafique wrote: So, are these* Ashkenazi Jews who carry the 'Arab Gene' - are they Jewish Arabs or Arab Jews?

(*the ones with the J Haplogroup. wiki says it is about 20%, but I couldn't immediately see an exact figure - it says '1 in 5')

Cheers,
Shafique

Looking for controversy over jews again, not information. so I will not debate this further with you, just read this
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html

@Kanelli .. As long as you keep me away from your examples, then that enough for me.
@Herve .. You're a freak

symmetric wrote:@Kanelli .. As long as you keep me away from your examples, then that enough for me.
@Herve .. You're a freak

how s that sym, I made you realize that you qualify to be on the CAGS list?

What's a CAGS list Mr. Nostradamos