Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb

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Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 25, 2011
As noted in previous threads about FBI and Europol statistics listing Terror attacks in the US and Europe, the perception that some people have about who the main terror threats are does not match what the law enforcement agencies record.

Some have argued that the statistics are flawed because (perhaps) the terror attacks include fire bombs in dustbins etc.

Here we have a story on Salon.com detailing a very real terrorist plot that almost succeeded. It appears that the targets were black Americans, and that the likely perpetrators were American white supremacists.

I would be surprised if people had heard about this story. I hadn't.

The terrorist attempt you’ve never heard of

One month ago, a bomb was found along a Martin Luther King Day parade route in Spokane, Wash., an area with a troubled history of violence by white supremacist groups. The FBI quickly announced that the backpack bomb, which was found by chance not long before marchers were scheduled to walk by, was sophisticated and could have caused “multiple casualties.” Authorities even used the phrase “domestic terrorism” to describe the incident.

Despite all that, the Spokane bomb has drawn little sustained coverage from the national media, let alone attention on Capitol Hill. One reason for the lack of coverage, no doubt, is that the incident does not fit into the reigning narrative of Muslim terrorism.

Take the example of the fake bomb plot by a Somali-born Muslim man in Portland, Ore., in November. This was one of several recent FBI stings in which an informant coaxed the suspect into launching an attack and even provided a fake bomb. A search for the Portland plot on the Nexis news archive, a blunt but fairly effective instrument for measuring the volume of media coverage, came up with 420 hits in the week after the incident. A similar search for the Spokane bomb plot came up with just 139 hits — even though the bomb in Spokane was real and the device in Portland was fake.

To get an update on the Spokane bomb and where the investigation stands, I spoke with Thomas Clouse, a legal affairs reporter with the Spokesman-Review in Spokane. He has been covering the story more closely than any other reporter in the country. The interview has been edited slightly for length and clarity.

So set the scene, what is this parade like?

There are usually several hundred folks who come out on Martin Luther King Day for what they call a “unity march.” They have members of the black community and black pastors who come and speak about the message of hope and the message that Dr. King lived. They have a route that we publish every year, and it ends up in downtown in River Park Square, where they have speeches.

Where along the parade was the backpack with the bomb found?

About three blocks from the end; it was found right next to or on a park bench. It was found by three contract maintenance workers about an hour before the march. They saw what appeared to be wires coming out of it, so they opened it and became suspicious. They called 911. The police consulted with each other and made the decision that they would not be able to determine whether it was a real bomb or not by the time the march was supposed to go by, so they decided to re-route the march. People were already gathering for the march when the backpack was discovered; it was found 40 minutes or so before people were supposed to walk by.

How was the bomb made?

Most of what we know is from sources who have not been willing to be named. The FBI is trying to preserve details of the case so if someone comes forward trying to take credit, the authorities will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. From what I’ve learned, it was a metal cylinder with some type of explosive inside. It also had a specific type of shrapnel and a substance that they believe was designed to be an anticoagulant, and that was rat poison. We also reported that it had a remote detonating device, meaning the bomb could be detonated remotely. It had an electronic receiver very much like the automatic key entry in a car. That means that the person had to have been nearby to detonate the device.

We’ve learned that they did get surveillance video of a subject nearby but the video was of such low quality that they weren’t able to determine who it was. I’ve learned that they’ve sent that to the FBI trying to enhance that video, but I’ve not heard back that they were able to glean anything from it.

Is there a sense of how much damage the bomb could have done?

They’ve said that it could have caused multiple casualties, though it’s obviously tempered by the amount of explosives one can fit in a backpack. It was placed near a four-foot-tall, two-foot-thick brick wall that would have directed the blast directly out into the street where the marchers were.

Have they said anything about the motive?

They publicly have said that they believe it was a thwarted attempt at domestic terrorism, and that it cannot be lost that it had political and social motives because of the timing and the location — along the path of a Martin Luther King unity march. But there was no note prior to, and no one took credit for it after the fact.
Can you explain the history of racial tensions in the area that you explored in one of your recent articles?

We’ve had several bombing incidents in the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, area [about 30 minutes from Spokane]. There was some activity there in the 1980s. And we had three bombing incidents here in Spokane in 1996. The suspects or the people arrested in all of those cases were either Aryan Nations or some type of white supremacist. There’s been a lull recently in that type of activity.

We have been seeing a lot more racist literature left on cars and in homes. We had a hate crime that made it to federal court in Coeur d’Alene in which some guys scratched out a swastika in the dirt on the side of their rig. Two of the three I believe were convicted of malicious harassment of a Hispanic man in the area. But things really have wound down since 2004 when Richard Butlerdied. He was the founder and leader of the Aryan Nations.

But it’s not as if any of these groups are a constant, visible presence?

No. Into the late 1990s, the Aryan Nations would have an actual parade down Main Street in Coeur d’Alene, with swastikas and boot-stepping and the whole nine yards. But we haven’t seen that since 1998 or 1999.

So where do things stand now in the investigation?

The FBI has not even so much as put out a description of a suspect. Yet, I interviewed a restaurant owner who said the day after the incident an agent with Homeland Security came by, and he got the impression from the questions that the agent had somebody specific in mind. The authorities said that there were interviews done the day of the discovery, and that there was no immediate threat of a second device. That leads me to believe that they have more idea of who is behind this than they’re letting on.

Justin Elliott is a Salon reporter. Reach him by email at jelliott@salon.com and follow him on Twitter @ElliottJustin More: Justin Elliott


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/19/spokane_mlk_bomb/index.html

shafique
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 25, 2011
Read about this when it happened. This was an act of racism, not terrorism, and clearly initiated by White Supremists.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 25, 2011
I don't understand the distinction. If the motivation behind a attack is hatred of blacks, does this not make it terrorism? Serious question then - what label would you give this attempt: 'racially motivated mass murder attempt'? (serious question, let me repeat)

Now - let's follow your logic. Let us say that the bomb was directed against a march of American girl guides, say. And let's further say that the bomb was placed by some Middle Eastern fanatics who just hated American girl guides. Would you seriously argue that it would NOT be labelled a terrorist plot? (Same motivation - hatred of the group, no other motivation)?

However, the label of domestic terrorism seems to be what the authorities themselves have used:
They publicly have said that they believe it was a thwarted attempt at domestic terrorism, and that it cannot be lost that it had political and social motives because of the timing and the location — along the path of a Martin Luther King unity march. But there was no note prior to, and no one took credit for it after the fact.


What is remarkable, I find, is the difference in coverage between this real terrorist (or mass murder attempt) and the fake ones mentioned in the article.

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 25, 2011
If you're set in believing conspiracy theories, then I guess you'll find it where ever you set out to look for one.

I'm reminded of the coverage some racially motivated attacks that happened in Britain and the USA received.

Some racial attacks (where the victims were white and the suspects Black or Asian) received little to no media coverage but attacks that involved Black or Asian victims and white suspects, the media covered these stories rather heavily.

But hey, in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, minor details are often overlooked.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Can we just clear up one thing first.

The article in Salon.com and the authorities call this failed attack a terrorist attack.

Bora is stating that this is not a terrorist attempt, because it was a racially motivated attack by white supremacists against fellow non-white Americans (correct me if I'm mistaken).

To me, a bomb attack against civilians is clearly terrorism.

Who else does not agree with Salon, the authorities and me that this was a terrorist attack foiled?

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
A terrorist is a person who uses terror in persuit of political aims, as the attack was racially motivated the attackers cannot be described as terrorists.

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Don't the White Supremacists have any political agenda?

Perhaps that is why the US authorities have called this an act of domestic terrorism?

But, at least for Dillon it is clear - racists blowing up innocent people aren't terrorists. To me they clearly are - and therein perhaps lies a part of the differing views about the risks of terrorism?

The FBI and Europol stats do show that of the bomb attacks and other attempts to kill civilians, the ones carried out by 'Islamists' are by far only a minor proportion. If some don't consider the majority of the terrorist attacks (as defined and categorised by FBI and Europol) as terrorism, this may be why they have this misconception that Islamists are the main problem.

It could just be a matter of labeling?

Fascinating. Anyone else agree with Dillon and Bora on this point?

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
What does it really matter what 'label' you want to put on it?

Those who are interested will read the article for what it is and decide for themselves, it isn't a competition is it?

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
The act of terrorism is to instill 'terror' into whoever your target or target group happens to be. You can't simply label one group of people terrorists and not others. For me I define this act as a racially motivated act of terrorism. The IRA were not Islamists, yet they were/are still terrorists.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Here's some more info on the bomb plot from the Seattle Times.

Political motivation - an 'Aryan homeland'?:
In the 30 years between the Aryan church bombing and the attempted bombing in Spokane, groups and individuals with ties to the Aryan Nations, the Ku Klux Klan and other hate groups have clustered in this remote corner of the Pacific Northwest, many attracted by Butler and his effort to create an Aryan homeland.

Others came "for the remoteness. For the 'live-and-let-live' attitude," said retired journalist Bill Morlin, who as a reporter at the Spokane Spokesman-Review newspaper covered Butler and the Northwest Christian Identity movement from Butler's immigration from California in the mid-1970s until his death at 89 in 2004.

Morlin is skeptical of any explanation for the bomb that doesn't involve Aryans, other hate groups or anti-government extremists — or perhaps a "lone wolf" sharing those views but operating independently.


And a re-statement of the FBI classification (and as I pointed out in the OP - the crime hasn't been definitively solved, but it looks very likely it is white supremacists):
So far, the attempted bombing remains unsolved. But the presumption is that it was a race-based hate crime, and has been labeled an act of domestic terrorism by the FBI.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... mb09m.html

Dillon, does this change your view that they are not terrorists?

(No, it is not a competition - the point I was making, was the main point in the Salon article - that there is a bias in reporting of terrorist attempts and attacks. I stated that there is a perception about terrorist threats that doesn't match the reality shown in the stats. Labelling could contribute to this)

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
You could use the word Terror or Terrify as a definition of fear in the extreme, but when you add ‘ist’ or ‘ism’ this is clearly defined as someone having a political agenda, so if the attack was racially motivated then to use Terror would be correct, Terrorist or Terrorism would be incorrect.

It’s like Sym’s understanding of Semitic and anti-Semitic, what appears to be an obvious contrary to an accepted definition, in reality isn’t.

Semitic, Group of languages or people
Anti-Semitic, Hostility or prejudice towards Jews.

I can understand Sym’s confusion, it doesn’t make sense does it?

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
shafique wrote:Can we just clear up one thing first.

The article in Salon.com and the authorities call this failed attack a terrorist attack.

Bora is stating that this is not a terrorist attempt, because it was a racially motivated attack by white supremacists against fellow non-white Americans (correct me if I'm mistaken).

To me, a bomb attack against civilians is clearly terrorism.

Who else does not agree with Salon, the authorities and me that this was a terrorist attack foiled?

Cheers,
Shafique


There is a history of racism by white supremists/KKK. Target: Blacks. Before there were bombs there were hangings, random murder, "hunts", rape. They are not politically motivated, but race motivated by the want of a white race. They can be compared to Nazi's and the Jews - the holocaust. Basically it is genocide motivated by skin color, rather than religion, and not terrorism.

A bomb is an explosive. It is the intent as to how it is used and the purpose behind it. You can't put on label on it. Airplanes were used on 9/11, causing deaths, regardless of who the people were in the buildings, the purpose behind it was political brought about by religious fanatics. Airplanes are used for transport, but in that case they was used as a "bomb". History shows that the mafia used bombs to destroy rival businesses and car bombs against their rivals (Italian or otherwise) as well as those within their own "family", for one reason or another that had nothing to do with government. Even apples come in different varieties. :wink:
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
The definition of Terrorism also includes groups that would terrorise others for their own ideologies i.e. that whites are more superior to blacks, Jews are inferior to the Nazis etc etc therefore it still falls under terrorism.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Akasha wrote:The definition of Terrorism also includes groups that would terrorise others for their own ideologies i.e. that whites are more superior to blacks, Jews are inferior to the Nazis etc etc therefore it still falls under terrorism.


Terrorism is widely used to refer to violent acts by terrorists who are politically motivated, generally the core of which is based on religious beliefs.

Terrorist and terrorism go hand in hand. You say terrorism people think terrorist, a person or persons who commit acts of violence against goverments based on political and/or religious revolution. Protesters against their government are just that - protesters, not terrorists. Racists are racists. We can't start labeling people who are protest against their government, racists, protesters, anti-Semites, or anyone else that takes issue with a group of people, as a terrorist.

If we did that then Wisconsin is in trouble with all those union terrorists, and their supporters, who are protesting against the changes that the state wants to make. What's next? Are they going to bomb the capital??? :)
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Akasha wrote:The definition of Terrorism also includes groups that would terrorise others for their own ideologies i.e. that whites are more superior to blacks, Jews are inferior to the Nazis etc etc therefore it still falls under terrorism.


terrorism(ter¦ror|ism)
Pronunciation:/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
[mass noun]
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Source, Oxford English Dictionaries
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Dillon wrote:
Akasha wrote:The definition of Terrorism also includes groups that would terrorise others for their own ideologies i.e. that whites are more superior to blacks, Jews are inferior to the Nazis etc etc therefore it still falls under terrorism.


terrorism(ter¦ror|ism)
Pronunciation:/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
[mass noun]
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Source, Oxford English Dictionaries


LOL Where's a smiley smirk face when you want one!
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Dillon - thanks for the definition.

Given that the political aim of an 'Aryan nation' is what the white supremacists want, doesn't this mean that the FBI is correct to call this a terrorist plot?

Same question to Bora.

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
You can't redefine every act against someone or something as a terrorist plot. Two men walk into a bank wired up with explosives - the intent is to put fear in the people in the bank to cooperate. Are the terrorists? If they went in with hand grenades, are they terrorists? If they went in with guns, are they terrorists? No, they are bank robbers.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
I agree with the opening sentence - you can't and shouldn't redefine crimes to suit an agenda.

But with respect, I'm not redefining anything.

The OP calls this terrorism (indeed, I didn't think there would be a discussion on the label.. I was more interested in the media coverage of the terrorist act).

The FBI calls this terrorism.

The quote I gave from the Seattle Times says what the political motivations of those assumed to be behind the bombing is.

So - as far as I can tell, the White Supremacists were targetting blacks to terrorise and further their political aspirations. They weren't just trying to reduce the numbers of blacks in America by a few.

It was indeed a hate crime - but still a terrorist hate crime.

That said, if I have indeed re-defined something, let me know how.

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Regardless of what the FBI or some random internet journalist want to label this story, and after reading the article, twice, it’s about a currently unidentified group of individuals assumed to be white, who planted a home made bomb timed to explode as it was estimated a group of black people would be walking by.

Now that’s racist in my book.

But the underlying theme of the article isn’t about what labels people have hung on it, it’s another ‘Conspiracy Theory’ about the perceived lack of coverage of an act of violence against blacks, the journalist goes on the say ‘One reason for the lack of coverage, no doubt, is that the incident does not fit into the reigning narrative of Muslim terrorism.’

Whereas in reality a bomb was found and the authorities don’t have a clue who planted it! Read into that what you will.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
One would have to go back to the source that redefined terrorism. Obviously it's easier for the FBI, CIA, all the other well-meaning (??) agencies and the news media to give one name to multiple actions. As I said once, an apple comes in various varieties, but for convenience sake we call them apples. I actually prefer Gala Apples. :lol:
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
You would think those who are offended by the 'misuse' of the word pedophile would agree with those who use the word terrorism correctly.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
LOL, in a perfect world?

:lol:
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
event horizon wrote:You would think those who are offended by the 'misuse' of the word pedophile would agree with those who use the word terrorism correctly.


It depends on the context it is used, and in the past you misused it knowing it would stir something up. Please go back and re-read my posts and try to absorb what I said. Hopefully the new moderation will have good judgment.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 26, 2011
Very interesting views.

FBI calls this an act of domestic terrorism and despite the white supremacists having a political agenda for their racist attacks, there are those who dispute this is actually terrorism. The argument appears to be that the FBI must have redefined the word terrorism to include terrorist hate crimes carried out by white supremacists.

Hmm.

Ok - that's an interesting side-issue.

What the main point of the article was, was the apparently muted coverage of this foiled bomb attack vs the media coverage of fake bomb attacks. Do fake attacks carried out by those who wish to kill for non-racist reasons really out-rank real attacks by racists bombers (who the FBI classify as domestic terrorists?)

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 27, 2011
Shaf, please explain to me what is the political motivation behind the white supremists attacks on black people? What do these white supremists, who have existed for centuries want the government to do - especially in the 21st Century?

When these attacks were taking place in the 60s in the US it was called racism, pure and simple created by white people who were of the mind set that white was the superior race. When did the government put a twist on it and start calling racism terrorism - terrorism as we know it today? If every act of violence is labeled terrorism then the terror alert would be on red - or whatever the top color is on the color chart :drunken: 24/7!!! Isn't it possible that the FBI is calling it terrorism to cover up what it really is: racism?? I think that the word terrorism has been so overused that it doesn't have the impact it once did, that we have pretty much become immune to the effect it initially had, whereas the word/act of racism is still quite disturbing.

I have been doing searches and cannot find anything about white supremists being politically motivated.
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 27, 2011
Dillon wrote:Regardless of what the FBI or some random internet journalist want to label this story, and after reading the article, twice, it’s about a currently unidentified group of individuals assumed to be white, who planted a home made bomb timed to explode as it was estimated a group of black people would be walking by.

Now that’s racist in my book.

But the underlying theme of the article isn’t about what labels people have hung on it, it’s another ‘Conspiracy Theory’ about the perceived lack of coverage of an act of violence against blacks, the journalist goes on the say ‘One reason for the lack of coverage, no doubt, is that the incident does not fit into the reigning narrative of Muslim terrorism.’

Whereas in reality a bomb was found and the authorities don’t have a clue who planted it! Read into that what you will.


shafique wrote:Very interesting views.
FBI calls this an act of domestic terrorism and despite the white supremacists having a political agenda for their racist attacks, there are those who dispute this is actually terrorism. The argument appears to be that the FBI must have redefined the word terrorism to include terrorist hate crimes carried out by white supremacists.
Hmm.


So I had another look at the article and there have been no further developments that I can see, so would you please reveal your source that has declared the perpetrators to be White Supremacists with a Political Agenda?

Failing to do this of course, we are stuck with the unidentified group of individuals assumed to be white, who planted a home made bomb timed to explode as it was estimated a group of black people would be walking by, err... yes, still Racist and not Political.

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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 27, 2011
I'm glad you had another look at the original article. I hope you also looked at the second article which gave the motivations of the White Supremacist groups that the FBI suspect are behind the bomb plot.

My OP was quite clear that the perpetrators and their precise political motivations for the terrorist bomb plot haven't been found yet. The point of the OP was to contrast the coverage (and indeed hype or lack of) between this foiled, real bomb plot to blow up American civilians and other fake bomb plots to blow up American civilians.

What has emerged in the exchanges in the thread is enlightening.

In practice, if a Muslim is suspected of being behind a bomb plot to blow up American civilians there is no hesitation to label this terrorism and hype it to the rafters. When the FBI rightly labels this plot as terrorism, excuses are produced which boil down to 'the FBI are wrong, white people wanting to blow up black people is not terrorism despite the fact that there are political aims behind these white supremacists'.

We've had Islamophobic bloggers present themselves as Quranic experts and issue weird fatwas. But this time we seem to have experts who can second-guess the FBI based on two articles which rightly call this terrorist attempt what it is (including the political motivations of these hate groups).


But let us also not lose track of my opening argument. When it comes to plots and actual attempts to kill innocent Americans and Europeans (in the US and Europe), the facts show that the vast majority of these acts are carried out by people who have motivations which are not related to 'Islamism'.

Whether we agree or disagree with the FBI and Europol labelling these attacks as 'terrorism' or not, does not change this fact. The disagreement on labelling may explain why some erroneously believe that the main threat is from Islamic extremists, despite the FBI and Europol statistics.

But for me, the difference between this foiled bomb plot and the failed Times Square bomb plot is that the White Supremacist bomb was better made and it was God's grace it was found before it exploded. In both cases no one was hurt - but the intent in both was to kill civilians. Both were terrorist attacks. One was hyped, one wasn't.

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Shafique
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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 27, 2011
Dillon wrote:Regardless of what the FBI or some random internet journalist want to label this story, and after reading the article, twice, it’s about a currently unidentified group of individuals assumed to be white, who planted a home made bomb timed to explode as it was estimated a group of black people would be walking by.

Now that’s racist in my book.

But the underlying theme of the article isn’t about what labels people have hung on it, it’s another ‘Conspiracy Theory’ about the perceived lack of coverage of an act of violence against blacks, the journalist goes on the say ‘One reason for the lack of coverage, no doubt, is that the incident does not fit into the reigning narrative of Muslim terrorism.’

Whereas in reality a bomb was found and the authorities don’t have a clue who planted it! Read into that what you will.


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Re: Foiled Terrorist Plot - Real Bomb Feb 27, 2011
I've moved on from what labels to put on to these bomb plots. Did you not read through the whole of my post? I have no reason to second-guess the FBI - and I'm not going to re-write the two articles to remove references to terrorism. So, moving on.

For the purposes of the non-labeling issues raised in this thread - I'm happy to use the generic term 'bomb plots to blow up innocent civilians' for these acts.

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