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DK - that's the scenario I was afraid of - but a guy is allowed to at least 'hope' for justice!

Cheers,
Shafique

i believe this wouldnt have happened if the woman/girl hadnt ventured out of her home and become friends with a guy!! If she had done what the Quran has instructed all muslims to do i.e men and women not to mix etc she wouldnt be in this mess right now.

she is in a mess and i believe both the men and the woman should be punished. But we are not the lawyers/judge and we dont even have the evidence in front of us.

by the way end of the day, god is the one who is the judge, jury and executioner

shafique wrote:Bora, let me play devil's advocate for one minute.

What if it transpires that the lady had agreed to have a 6 way party, and later changed her mind when, say the boyfriend announced he was going to marry a virgin, and this was her way of punishing him?

I have absolutely no evidence that this was the case, but then again, I have no evidence that it wasn't either. Hence my question to you. Would the court/prosectors etc be right to charge her at least for the fornication and let the evidence etc speak in court?

Cheers,
Shafique

At the sake of having to repeat myself again, WHAT EVIDENCE???? It's a she said/he said situation, so it appears because there is no mention of evidence.

I think your "example" as devil's advocate is way out of line. This was a Emirati girl. To say she was all for a 6 way party, come on. Then she reports it because "she changed her mind". Isn't that like trying to a fart back? But let's take it a step further: if she consented for a 6 way party, why would she then go and make a case against these guys for rape (other than having changed her mind)?? She took a bold step and brought a case for rape, and assuming it did happen, probably did so knowing the chances she was taking. Do you think she would take such a chance if it didn't happen??? Or do you think that she thought that because she was a woman she would get away with it?

The only way it could be proven that she had consensual s.e.x with the boyfriend would be by her own admission, then the court/prosecutors would justify carrying out the law as it is written. But I have yet to read where she did so. As DK noted, if this happened in the "real world" procedures would have been followed. Highly unlikely ANY of those procedures were followed. If a qualified doctor did use a rape kit, there would be evidence of rape. Those procedures would be in the interest not only for the accusor, but the accused as well (prove they are guilty or innocent). The results of the procedures would then be the basis to determine if there was a case, and what direction it would take. No where does it say that there was EVIDENCE to prove or disprove her claim.

Like I said, if there is EVIDENCE that she had consenual s.e.x with the boyfriend - guilty. If she was raped, and there is a way to determine if she was, which would serve as EVIDENCE, then that is another case. Even if a case goes forward against these guys, at the end of the day her crime will be viewed as being more serious (consenual vs. rape) and she will in all likelihood get a harsher sentence than they will. She will get years while they get months. And lucky for them, they may just get a "Get Out of Jail Free" card when Ramadan/Eid comes.

"To say she was all for a 6 way party, come on" no offence to emirati girls or ANy girls but you will be suprised by some of the girls on this earth

"if she consented for a 6 way party, why would she then go and make a case against these guys for rape (other than having changed her mind)??"

she probably made a case for these guys because she thought that if I complained, the authorities will listen and i will have the advantage because I am a woman!! and she knew that the authorities will probably will be more considerate towards women and show some decency!! and oh yeh she probably thought that dubai police were just bunch of lazy ass and know nothing about investigation, abit like what DK thinks
I am not defending her nor attacking her in any sense, but just saying we dont know what happened out there.

lol rape kits are not used any more otherwise there would be a huge demand for DIY home rape kits

rudeboy wrote:sorry knight, but not everyone has the privileages of going into Dubai HQ and see their forensic setup!! However I was because I happen to be their supplier. ANd what we supply is technology which you wouldnt understand unless it was your field of expertise. I dont want to boast here what I do, but I feel I should because you have made the assumptions that Dubai police doesnt do what it should do i.e investigate.

Trust me, that there is technology out there which can determine anything i.e if person is telling a truth, a person in this case was raped or not or even. The technology can even find small particles of human skin in your nail!!

so parts a) & b) are handled by Dubai police and they are done to the same quality as done in scotland yard!

thats why i am saying, we dont know what evidence was presented, therefore we cant really comment here!!

RB, because you "supply" the technology doesn't mean you know for a fact how and when it is used. You can supply toilet paper to a labor camp, it doesn't mean that they will use it for the purpose intended. Maybe they use it to cover walls? Who knows??

The only incriminating evidence they could draw from would be a rape kit. As I said in another post it is a she said/he said case. No EVIDENCE!!!

As for your "expertise", did you get it from watching CSI (which one NY or Miami)? Take your knowledge out to the bedouins in the desert and impress them. You aren't telling any of us something we haven't known for sometime now. As you said: you are a supplier, not a forensic expert.

-- Thu May 20, 2010 5:08 pm --

rudeboy wrote:"To say she was all for a 6 way party, come on" no offence to emirati girls or ANy girls but you will be suprised by some of the girls on this earth

"if she consented for a 6 way party, why would she then go and make a case against these guys for rape (other than having changed her mind)??"

she probably made a case for these guys because she thought that if I complained, the authorities will listen and i will have the advantage because I am a woman!! and she knew that the authorities will probably will be more considerate towards women and show some decency!! and oh yeh she probably thought that dubai police were just bunch of lazy peach and know nothing about investigation, abit like what DK thinks
I am not defending her nor attacking her in any sense, but just saying we dont know what happened out there.

lol rape kits are not used any more otherwise there would be a huge demand for DIY home rape kits

You are such an arse. I don't think rape kits were ever used in this part of the world, since raping your own wife is acceptable.

"RB, because you "supply" the technology doesn't mean you know for a fact how and when it is used. You can supply toilet paper to a labor camp, it doesn't mean that they will use it for the purpose intended. Maybe they use it to cover walls? Who knows?? "

thats what I am saying woman, WHO KNOWS what HAPPENED IN THAT CAR!! only the people who were there and god!!!

let me see, toilet paper would probably be used to make a sandwich or tissue aeroplanes

if you had a $20 million machine lying in your back garden would you leave it there to rust? Or sign a contract to make sure its up and running? ask herve, he will tell you that no government continues to pay for something which they wont use!!

sorry like I said there is "technology" out there apart from DIY kits which can tell you the truth.
No offence but how do you know that evidence was or wasnt provided? Were you there in the court?

Trust me you will be suprised by what you will learn from CSI, its a shame that you think that what happens on a television stays in that box

I am not a trader, I am a expert. Send me your human hair and I ll send you a picture from the "$20 million" machine and i ll tell you when you last showered, which brand of shampoo, conditioner you used.



I honestly thought you would be used by my famous saying which goes something like "it takes an arse to know another one"

"since raping your own wife is acceptable." hmmm we aint in USA or Canada or UK

since raping your own wife is acceptable." hmmm we aint in USA or Canada or UK

Exactly my point dimwit. That's why it is acceptable!!!!

You said it yourself - you are a supplier!!!! That does not make you qualified to give your "expert opinion".

What's next on your educational viewing list: Criminal Minds?? You can then provide your "expertise" as a profiler.

I think best you go back to watching your cartoons.

It really is time to maybe stuff your mouth with some of that toilet paper and keep quiet. You are making a bigger fool of yourself than usual.

Is it possible to win an argument against a woman?
"Since they dont use logic and reason, I see no way to win. They use emotion and craziness instead"


"It really is time to maybe stuff your mouth with some of that toilet paper " the signs of craziness

At least I didn't say: after you use it!!!

Is it possible to win an argument against a woman?
"Since they dont use logic and reason, I see no way to win. They use emotion and craziness instead"

Lol! Look who is talking about logic?

This is your stupid logic:

i believe this wouldnt have happened if the woman/girl hadnt ventured out of her home and become friends with a guy!! If she had done what the Quran has instructed all muslims to do i.e men and women not to mix etc she wouldnt be in this mess right now

Girls stay in home and not become friend with a guy! because then u will be in mess!

Seriously try to socialize more! this is the 21st century! Lots of people became friends and there is no rape!

I notice some guys are arguing now the old canard that she asked for it. I am no woman, but I donot think any woman asks to be raped. A smart lady told me that if a woman is asking fro s.ex, she lying naked on bed with her legs spread and say "take me". Then you know a lady is asking it.

Flying Dutchman wrote:I notice some guys are arguing now the old canard that she asked for it. I am no woman, but I donot think any woman asks to be raped. A smart lady told me that if a woman is asking fro s.ex, she lying naked on bed with her legs spread and say "take me". Then you know a lady is asking it.

Look who is using that argument. No surprise is there?

At least someone sees the folly in that a woman would "ask to be raped".

Asking:
Her: Excuse me Mr Hottie, if you have nothing to do at the moment, would you mind raping me?"
Him: Sorry, I have something better to do at the moment.
Her: Would you be able to rape me later this evening?
Him: Hmmmm, can I get back to you on that? I have to check with my mate to see if we are going to go out for a few brewskies.
Her: Oh, well he's welcome to come along and rape me too.

melika969 wrote:

Is it possible to win an argument against a woman?
"Since they dont use logic and reason, I see no way to win. They use emotion and craziness instead"

Lol! Look who is talking about logic?

This is your stupid logic:

i believe this wouldnt have happened if the woman/girl hadnt ventured out of her home and become friends with a guy!! If she had done what the Quran has instructed all muslims to do i.e men and women not to mix etc she wouldnt be in this mess right now

Girls stay in home and not become friend with a guy! because then u will be in mess!

Seriously try to socialize more! this is the 21st century! Lots of people became friends and there is no rape!

hmmmm sorry what I meant was that a girl and a guy on their own is a problem. If they want to become friends thats fine ( i take it back. These women are showing me the logic ) but a guy and a girl shouldnt get "JIGGY" with it or think about "jiggy" in a car because such things happen when and IF you get caught.

I am sure that there have been some cases where women havent come forward and reported the crime because they felt scared, regardless whether it was their fault or the guys fault. You wouldnt be in the MESS, if you go along with the rules and regulations.

If they want to be friends, hang around, go to the movies yep thats ok i guess.

Yes mel lots of ppl are nice and become friends and there is no rape but some of them ARE NOT NICE and rape does happen!! and when it happens all the other good guys get a bad reputation in the girls eyes and think ALL guys are rapists!!

mel if you met a guy on the net or knew a guy from school. You go out with him as "FRIENDS' you think hes a nice guy, hes not going to try anything on etc etc. But you dont know what hes thinking or what he wants to do (you dont have this power, no1 has). You are going out with him going for movies etc etc etc. You trust him and you start to trust him more. Than one day you are out in the desert and than what?

But lets take a step back to when you are going out. How about when you go out i.e for movies dinner etc etc you make sure you are accompanied by your friends? would that hurt you? wouldnt that be much safer for you? yes you are thinking its "uncool" for you to be with the guy accompanied by your friends. But would you rather think whats cool or whats safe for you?

trust me, when you have your own daughter, and when she starts going out, you will make sure she goes out with a friend, because you know what some guys are like in the 21st century

such things can be avoidable by not doing them in the first place!!

and when you do get caught in such situation, you will do whatever you can think off to get out of this situation.

bottom line is, we do know the truth, we dont have the evidence. leave the justice to the guys who are employed by the government.




if a guy and girl love each other, is se.x really that important? couldnt it wait till you get married?

we dont know what these guys were planning on doing.

bottom line is, we do know the truth, we dont have the evidence.

And what "truth" would that be, especially since there is no evidence?

I understand where you are coming from as a parent where it concerns your daughter. But let me ask you this: did your parents know you as well as your friends did? Did your friends parents know them as well as you did? I can guarantee you the answer is NO.

Maybe this girl told her parents who she was going to be with or lied to them. Did they trust her, of course, she is their daughter and they probably raised her to be a "good girl". But times have and continue to change. You said it yourself about Emirati girls and it is no different with the guys. Many girls and guys today DO NOT tell their parents what they are doing outside of home, even if it is innocent. I have seen girls meet up with guys, sit and have a bite to eat, and leave as they arrived - all very out in the open and all very innocent, but more than likely the parents of all 4 would not approve had they known what their children were doing.

Maybe this girl told her parents who she was going to be with or lied to them. Did they trust her, of course, she is their daughter and they probably raised her to be a "good girl". But times have and continue to change. You said it yourself about Emirati girls and it is no different with the guys. Many girls and guys today DO NOT tell their parents what they are doing outside of home, even if it is innocent.

Bora there is nothing wrong if a man dates a lady with a company of hers.
This protects both the woman and the man from accusations.
Every single soul/life is precious right. You cannot leave it to chances..

rudeboy wrote:if you had a $20 million machine lying in your back garden would you leave it there to rust? Or sign a contract to make sure its up and running? ask herve, he will tell you that no government continues to pay for something which they wont use!!

There are millions and millions of $ worth of equipment stored in warehouses all over the UAE for the police, military, coast guard, civil defense...that no-one knows how to use! It looks shiny and pretty and was probably bought from a government procurement budget where there was a personal 'inducement' to an individual or group by the supplier. You will never see it though, because its locked up in secure military compounds.

I am not a trader, I am a expert. Send me your human hair and I ll send you a picture from the "$20 million" machine and i ll tell you when you last showered, which brand of shampoo, conditioner you used.

I can do that by getting a search warrant and looking in your bathroom! A bit cheaper don't you think? So can your $20M machine tell from my hair that I was physically restrained and raped? No. A pretty simple thorough medical examination however can.

Having the machinery only provides factual information. That information has to be evaluated and an objective report supplied to someone who is able to make a judgmental decision. Here is where your expensive piece of machinery has a flaw: The humans to whom the information is being provided. It would seem that none of them are qualified to sit the right way on a toilet!

I own a dog who's parents and grandparents are police sniffer dogs. However, my dog could not find a cache of drugs unless there was a bone or a biscuit strapped to it and even then would merrily chew the bone or biscuit and be blissfully unaware of the evidence sitting under its nose. Its all down to training and a 1 month all expenses paid jolly at Scotland Yard where the person concerned is more interested in getting away and enjoying the fleshpots and pubs of London than actually learning police technique, is not a trained investigator.



Knight

It's important to keep in mind that this woman is charged not for being raped but for having pre-marital s.ex before her rape.

As the law of the land (Islamic law), I agree that she should be charged for having pre-marital s.ex.

mel if you met a guy on the net or knew a guy from school. You go out with him as "FRIENDS' you think hes a nice guy, hes not going to try anything on etc etc. But you dont know what hes thinking or what he wants to do (you dont have this power, no1 has). You are going out with him going for movies etc etc etc. You trust him and you start to trust him more. Than one day you are out in the desert and than what?

Nothing! nothing would happen if the guy has a healthy mind! no normal guy would be so stupid to take advanatge of such situation!

which guy does not have healthy minds?
those who lived under unneccessary limitations and restrcitions. Guys who does not have seen a woman whitout veils around them! So if they saw a toe of a woman, they would be stimulated and as they think, good girls will wear hijab and dont go out of home woithout their folks, this girl is a bad one and it is ok to rape this BAD girl!

event horizon wrote:It's important to keep in mind that this woman is charged not for being raped but for having pre-marital s.ex before her rape.

As the law of the land (Islamic law), I agree that she should be charged for having pre-marital s.ex.

Why? Isn't that a double standard, when men get away with it all the time?

Interesting to note that 4 of the 6 men charged didn't bother to attend the court hearings - high profilers? Probably.

These double standards and corrupt justice are working well to scare off more and more tourist's. Already the investors are gone, what is going to be left?

@ RB

Since you think CSI is a source of information, I thought you might find this useful. Some really good one liners by Caruso that you can use to impress:



Proof that ultra violet light does work!!

Astaghfirullah, Reham Allah, I dont know whats going on here, now its emarati which really really very very important thing to be discussed and we want justice in it, Save your nation Emaratis