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Itai Dhul Qurba - the third level in this comprehensive verse is talking about the concept of giving to others (mankind) as you would give to family.

Uh, no. The passage doesn't say that. It says to give to your family. If you want to believe family refers to mankind, then your interpretation makes even less sense since to treat someone as you would mankind doesn't mean anything to most people.

But go ahead, show where giving to your family means to treat others as you would your family...or mankind.

That is the meaning of the phrase in this context.

In your imagination. That's why you won't quote the verse and highlight the part where you imagine giving to family "really" means something else.

I ask again - what is your problem with the teaching as explained?

I already explained this. Try reading posts instead of being redundant.

Do you have anything against this teaching (regardless of whether you think it is in the Quran)?

This is the same question as above and you'll receive the same answer.

You really need to take ESL classes at your local community college. You're functionally illiterate.

Never mind eh - insulting others is all you have left.

Why is it that when faced with clear evidence that your analysis of the Quran is wrong, you always resort to insults and avoid questions posed to you? The third stage of virtue described by God has been shown to you in two commentaries, and yet you somehow think repeating your denials will achieve something? I'm struggling to see what.

I asked what your problem is with the 'Platinum rule' I describe - you seem to have problems answering this simple question.

Perhaps you should follow a copper rule, let alone the Gold and Platinum rules?

Cheers,

Shafique

I think I've resorted to requesting that you address the actual verse in question.

As for two commentaries now that supposedly agree with you and that mention "levels", which is the second?

Like the Koranic verse, why don't you highlight Nucleus' commentary where you just said it claims to mention a "third stage"?

I have problems with repeating myself to functionally illiterate posters. Re-reading back posts will answer your question just the same.

I'm not here to relieve laziness. Nor am I amused at your reading comprehension problems.

So, where does the verse, where it says to give to family members, actually say to give to others as if they were family members (or mankind)?

Even Nucleus says you are wrong on this point. But I guess you didn't manage to read his post where he said that.

Why don't you just tell us what your issue is with the Platinum rule?

It is understandable that you have problems with Scriptural passages that don't fit your beliefs - I mean, you have problem with the Bibles - and you're a Christian:
philosophy-dubai/biblical-confusion-t47353.html

Therefore it is understandable that you're refusing to accept the explanation of the verse in question that myself, nucleus and 2 commentaries (one of which you quoted) say.

But eh, leave that to one side - you don't believe in the Quran and don't have to follow what God says there. Why do you object to Muslims who tell you this is what God is saying? Is the teaching objectionable in any way?

Cheers,

Shafique

event horizon wrote:So, where does the verse, where it says to give to family members, actually say to give to others as if they were family members (or mankind)?

Even Nucleus says you are wrong on this point. But I guess you didn't manage to read his post where he said that.

I said it is connecting the two and it can be interpreted that way, if not then what is purpose of framing mankind as your family? It is called rehtoric.

--- 1 seconds ago ---

This chit chat takes a lot of time and I've other things to do.

shafique wrote:Why don't you just tell us what your issue is with the Platinum rule?

I did. You simply won't read.

shafique wrote:Therefore it is understandable that you're refusing to accept the explanation of the verse in question that myself, nucleus and 2 commentaries (one of which you quoted) say.

Really, where did Nucleus and this second commentary discuss "three levels" or claiming the passage is saying to treat people as you would mankind (or your family)?

Nucleus has said you are wrong.

Nucleus wrote:even if Shafique is wrong in one specific point

In case you need reminding.

So, where does the passage itself mention "three levels" and where does it say to treat people as you would mankind?

Oh dear God, you people like to argue. I said 'even' if he is wrong, doesn't really change the overall message. You are going to argue it says "mankind is your family" vs "treat mankind as your family." Seriously? As I said rethoric/prose is used here, and it can be interpreted in multiple ways as long as main message it is conveying stays the same. How difficult is that to understand.

eh is just trolling now.

I asked him what he objects to in the 'Platinum Rule' and yet he can't answer. The only objection he has raised in this thread is the denial that the Quranic verse encompasses the Golden Rule as the lowest level of virtue (justice), then ordains kindness and kinship as the next two levels up.

His denial is quite sad - as it reflects a hatred which has blinded him to what has been patiently explained to him. Indeed, he has even quoted a commentary which confirms what we have been saying, and had another commentary quoted to him to re-confirm the same.

Sad.

Cheers,
Shafique

I asked him what he objects to in the 'Platinum Rule' and yet he can't answer.

I have answered, you just can't read.

But if not answering a question is your definition of a troll, then you are the biggest troll on the forums for not answering numerous questions numerous times.

then ordains kindness and kinship as the next two levels up.

Where does the verse ordain kinship? I saw a passage that says to give to kin. Perhaps the plain language of the Koran is confusing one of us? Best just to look at the translation instead of relying on crazy Ahmadi commentary that often contradicts your own opinion of what the Koran says - such as non-believers going to hell.

and had another commentary quoted to him to re-confirm the same.

Where did that second commentary "re-confirm" anything about the "Golden" or "Platinum" rule or the "three levels" you keep insisting are in the verse?

Remember, not answering questions is trolling according to you.

And I'm inclined to agree.

eh please stop trolling.

I explained to you what the Platinum rule was and have asked you what your issue is with it.

I also explained how it derives from God's instructions in 16.90 which describes the 3 levels of virtue, the lowest being Adl (Justice) - which is the level of the Golden Rule. The next two levels up are kindness (doing more to others than they do to you) and kinship (treating others like family).

Just because you wish to deny the meanings of 16.90 as explained by me, nucleus and two commentaries - is really not our problem. Focus on the platinum rule and forget that Muslims derive this from the Quran - why should it bother you where we derive the rule from?

Cheers,

Shafique

I explained to you what the Platinum rule was and have asked you what your issue is with it.

Please stop trolling. I've answered your question in previous posts.

If not answering a question makes one a troll, then by far you are the biggest troll on the forum.

You can't even answer multiple questions in this thread; such as highlighting verse 16:90 where it allegedly says to treat others as you would your family members.

A straight reading of the plain language, to me and everyone else, simply says to treat family well.

It seems you're imagining something the verse simply does not say.

And to settle this dispute by simply looking at the verse, you seem to refuse that, which would be the most logical and obvious approach.

Just because you wish to deny the meanings of 16.90 as explained by me, nucleus and two commentaries

Sorry, where does Nucleus' commentary mention the "Golden/Platinum" rule or three levels?

Nucleus said your reading of the verse was wrong. Are you going to lie again and claim Nucleus agree with you?

Focus on the platinum rule and forget that Muslims derive this from the Quran

Tell me where I'll find the part in 16:90 that says to treat others as you would your family members?

Otherwise, I can't agree with your lie that the verse contains the platinum rule rather than a general exhortation - found in children's stories, to be nice to your family.

I simply asked you what problem you had with the platinum rule - why the insults?

16.90 talks of three levels of virtue - first Justice (Adl), which encompasses the Golden Rule. Kindness is the next step up - do more for others, and finally the highest level is (as described in the 2 commentaries posted) - treating others as if they were kin.

Whether you want to believe the commentaries, nucleus and myself on this verse is really up to you. May I suggest that you concentrate first on sorting out your confusion over the Bible before you try and preach to Muslims on what the Quran teaches.

Cheers,

Shafique

treating others as if they were kin.

Quote the actual passage where you believe it says "to treat others as if they were kin".