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tdot wrote:

yorky500 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:
*points at previous post*

Power... Who got all privileges during all these centuries? Who got all type of education? Were women even allowed to open their mouth a few centuries ago in some countries without getting burned at the stake?

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

There is no such thing as "muslim culture". You either live the life or you don't. I agree that these practices of belittling woman happen in 3rd world countries but in true Islam woman are considered very important and should be treated in that manner. It has nothing to do with being muslim, its typically comes down to how you were brought up.

True. One shouldn't generalize. I have seen, met practicing Muslims who respected women more than any Westerner. A veil doesn't mean anything. It might very well be the woman's choice to wear it. It doesn't mean I agree with it but it hardly has anything to do with the issue at hand.

tdot wrote:

yorky500 wrote:GREED is more like it.

Capitalism creates GREED

So true sooo true

This is beyong disguting. Its is so reprehensible.

if they are doing that because of rapist as the have mentioned, then I think they should start ironing the potential rapist's thingy

yorky500 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

On what basis have you made such assumptions!! Hollywood movies?!

You will be more than surprised if you would come to know how women are being treated in our cultures... many westreners were stunned when they saw the reality.

Well for the matter of fact .. in many cases.. women are the boss here even if u didnt see it ... right liban ?

Even if Islam claims to treat women very well, the fact remains that the Quran says that women must cover themselves to hide their attributes from men who might take advantage. On the one hand there are good intentions behind that, but on the other hand it makes it acceptable for men to disrespect women who are not covered. The women are made responsible for men's bad behaviour, which is wrong. This is exactly the same kind of thing as female circumscision and breast ironing - the men are not held accountable for their sexual deviance and lack of respect for women. Patriarchal cultures around the world have imposed many restrictions on women, whereas men have not faced such radical practices and unequal treatment under matriarchal societies (to my knowledge). Perhaps Corcovado knows more about that.

Nick81 wrote:
I already knew about female circumcision (better called female genital mutilation) but this was definitely news for me...

omg !!

damn female circumsicion, is that even physically possible !!
what the hell do they circumsize ?? i really wanna know.

where and why do they do it

xibit wrote:

Nick81 wrote:
I already knew about female circumcision (better called female genital mutilation) but this was definitely news for me...

omg !!

damn female circumsicion, is that even physically possible !!
what the hell do they circumsize ?? i really wanna know.

where and why do they do it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

^^ damn this is some new and ing info for me. ppl need education

Uhhh.... This crap and femal circumcision have NOTHING to do with Islam.

kanelli wrote:Even if Islam claims to treat women very well, the fact remains that the Quran says that women must cover themselves to hide their attributes from men who might take advantage. On the one hand there are good intentions behind that, but on the other hand it makes it acceptable for men to disrespect women who are not covered. The women are made responsible for men's bad behaviour, which is wrong. This is exactly the same kind of thing as female circumscision and breast ironing - the men are not held accountable for their fun deviance and lack of respect for women. Patriarchal cultures around the world have imposed many restrictions on women, whereas men have not faced such radical practices and unequal treatment under matriarchal societies (to my knowledge). Perhaps Corcovado knows more about that.

Kanelli ur so right .. in a world ful of ignorance.. male deminated the society.. and treated women as objects and some cultures and religions emphisized on this...leaving women helpless and used as breeding machines only... in ancient times women ruled.. and were warriors and queens...and they were worshiped ..it was a female society ... it was a better society ...

I agree Corcovado

Again this is too easy of an answer.

The best thing that could happen in the world today is divide power EQUALLY between men and women, and FINALLY dissociate politics and religion.

I have encountered local ladies who are quite liberated in their actions and thinking however are unable to 'be seen' out without their abaya and sheyla as they are afraid that they will be seen to be 'of loose morals' by the local men here.

However, I see numerous local men who are perfectly willing to dress in western style, including revealing shorts and t-shirts, without feeling any sense of 'loose morals'. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a man dressed this way, whilst his wife walks alongside him completely covered.

It just smacks of hypocritical double standards to me...



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:I have encountered local ladies who are quite liberated in their actions and thinking however are unable to 'be seen' out without their abaya and sheyla as they are afraid that they will be seen to be 'of loose morals' by the local men here.

However, I see numerous local men who are perfectly willing to dress in western style, including revealing shorts and t-shirts, without feeling any sense of 'loose morals'. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a man dressed this way, whilst his wife walks alongside him completely covered.

It just smacks of hypocritical double standards to me...



Knight

Exactly. I made the same observation in another thread.

it's amazing how something that outragous and physically and mentally and logically unacceptable can be even linked to Islam.

before prophet Mohammed people used to bury their daughters alive because they are afriad of the shame a girl can bring to her family, so this female opression was going on for way long time ago so, don't try to attach any kind of violence against women to Islam.

no one is questioning the way the non muslims women live their lives because no one has the right to, so isn't it fair to do the same thing for muslim women too?

Did I miss where people were blaming Islam for breast ironing and female circumcision?

no i didn't mean that, but somehow the thread went from talking about those things to how muslim women cover themselves, which was a bit amazing.

Because we are talking about the practices that men put upon women in male-dominated societies and religions.

no one was blaming Islam, but someone linked "muslim culture" with this thread. Men are to equally cover up as are woman in Islam and it's the hypocrisy that is evident in the world today that people say one thing and do another. In any case the world was a better place 20+ years ago before men like Dubya Bush took control....

tdot, it is very childish when people bring up George Bush all the time. He is an ass, but Hitler, Mugabe, Hussein and many other leaders have made this world an unpleasant place as well. Let's stick to the topic and not try to pin anything related to this subject on George Bush, the USA or capitalism.

I guess you're American....and I don't see how it's childish, but anyhow yes there are other corrupt leaders and its just that Bush is the biggest one right now.

kanelli wrote:tdot, it is very childish when people bring up George Bush all the time. He is an a#s, but Hitler, Mugabe, Hussein and many other leaders have made this world an unpleasant place as well. Let's stick to the topic and not try to pin anything related to this subject on George Bush, the USA or capitalism.

Damn u beat me to it... I was going to post the same thing...

No she is Israeli .. I blame the Mossad for this one.

hehe, Isreali? she forgot to add Sharon to her list.

tdot wrote:I guess you're American....and I don't see how it's childish, but anyhow yes there are other corrupt leaders and its just that Bush is the biggest one right now.

Wrong, I am not American, but I am logical. This thread is about breast ironing and we have also discussed patriarchal and matriarchal societies and religions because it is related to cultural practices that affect women. George Bush has nothing to do with African women ironing breasts etc., therefore it is illogical to discuss George Bush in this thread.

MaaaD wrote:No she is Israeli .. I blame the Mossad for this one.

I'm Scottish/Welsh Canadian Feminist Vegetarian Atheist Humanist.

kanelli wrote:

MaaaD wrote:No she is Israeli .. I blame the Mossad for this one.

I'm Scottish/Welsh Canadian Feminist Vegetarian Atheist Humanist.

I still blame the Mossad.

MaaaD wrote:

kanelli wrote:

MaaaD wrote:No she is Israeli .. I blame the Mossad for this one.

I'm Scottish/Welsh Canadian Feminist Vegetarian Atheist Humanist.

I still blame the Mossad.

Can I blame it too? Pleaaaaaase?

MaaaD wrote:

kanelli wrote:

MaaaD wrote:No she is Israeli .. I blame the Mossad for this one.

I'm Scottish/Welsh Canadian Feminist Vegetarian Atheist Humanist.

I still blame the Mossad.