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event horizon · Mar 14, 2010

I have no idea. It certainly doesn't condemn them.

Then again, that would be hypocritical for Allah to condemn the God of the Hebrew Bible, now wouldn't it?

Or does your Koran, like Berrin's, not contain passages of Allah giving orders to smite the disbelievers (wholesale destruction of cities)?

shafique · Mar 15, 2010

So you are saying that we are being hypocritical for not joining you and condoning the enslavement of virgins!!

Wow, you are indeed more extreme than Bin Laden.

You haven't told us whether you are proud of this fact though.

event horizon · Mar 15, 2010

Do you condemn the slaughter that is inflicted by Allah in the Koran?

shafique · Mar 15, 2010

I said I don't condemn any acts of God - such as cancer, hurricanes, plagues etc - they are just that, acts of God.

I asked whether you are proud to be more extreme than Al Qaeda - they don't condone the enslavement of virgins as carried out by the Israelites in the Bible (but the LRA do and actually practice this - and you claim they are 'Christian Terrorists).

So, I condemn cold blooded massacres and enslavements of virgins - but you don't.

Are you proud to be more extreme than Bin Laden?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Mar 17, 2010

You're not avoiding the question are you eh? Surely not.

shafique wrote:
So, I condemn cold blooded massacres and enslavements of virgins - but you don't.

Are you proud to be more extreme than Bin Laden?

event horizon · Mar 17, 2010

shafique wrote:I said I don't condemn any acts of God - such as cancer, hurricanes, plagues etc - they are just that, acts of God.

I asked whether you are proud to be more extreme than Al Qaeda - they don't condone the enslavement of virgins as carried out by the Israelites in the Bible (but the LRA do and actually practice this - and you claim they are 'Christian Terrorists).

So, I condemn cold blooded massacres and enslavements of virgins - but you don't.

Are you proud to be more extreme than Bin Laden?

Cheers,
Shafique

Acts of God is a misleading statement. In modern use, it describes natural events or freak accidents that simply happen. The massacres described in the Koran are not 'acts of God', in which a natural disaster happens to befall a people, but deliberate acts by Allah or his intermediaries in which civilians are massacred.

That would be like claiming that an earthquake machine used to level a city is an act of God. It isn't. It blows my mind that you would describe intentional acts of destruction by Allah or massacres Allah orders to be some sort of random, unforeseen event.

shafique · Mar 17, 2010

I understand you have a logic to equate the enslavement of virgins and their rape with natural disasters. I just happen to not share this view - and think it rather perverse a way to justify murder and rape by Israelites.

The question though was whether you acknowledge you are more extreme than Al Qaeda and are proud of this fact.

I suspect I'll be repeating the question a few times.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Mar 17, 2010

Is using an earthquake machine to destroy a city a natural disaster?

shafique · Mar 17, 2010

shafique wrote:I understand you have a logic to equate the enslavement of virgins and their rape with natural disasters. I just happen to not share this view - and think it rather perverse a way to justify murder and rape by Israelites.

The question though was whether you acknowledge you are more extreme than Al Qaeda and are proud of this fact.

I suspect I'll be repeating the question a few times.

I guess I was right about repeating the question a few times.

event horizon · Mar 17, 2010

event horizon wrote:Is using an earthquake machine to destroy a city a natural disaster?

Are you having trouble with the question?

shafique · Mar 18, 2010

Yes, an earthquake is a natural disaster. (Duh?)

I'm also having absolutely no problem asking you the question you're studiously avoiding about war crimes you condone:

shafique wrote:I understand you have a logic to equate the enslavement of virgins and their rape with natural disasters. I just happen to not share this view - and think it rather perverse a way to justify murder and rape by Israelites.

The question though was whether you acknowledge you are more extreme than Al Qaeda and are proud of this fact.

I suspect I'll be repeating the question a few times.

event horizon · Mar 18, 2010

So, using an earthquake machine to cause an earthquake would be an act of God - even though it was intentionally set off and not a natural phenomenon ???

shafique · Mar 19, 2010

Bump:
When an earthquake machine is invented, then I'll be able to answer your hypothetical question.

Until then, all earthquakes, tornadoes, plagues, hurricanes, Tsunamis, cancers etc are natural disasters aka acts of God.

Virgins being enslaved and their families slaughtered will remain war crimes.

Only those more extreme than Al Qaeda will condone these crimes. Are you proud of this view?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Mar 19, 2010

Again, the term act of God commonly used today does not really imply that God was the shot caller behind an earthquake or other natural disaster.

And yes, there have been precedents of man intentionally causing 'natural' disasters - from starting avalanches in WWI to blowing up dams to create floods.

Floods and avalanches are 'acts of God' so, does that mean we should not condemn those who start them?

shafique · Mar 19, 2010

I've been pretty clear that I don't condemn acts of God. If someone causes harm to another person - then it isn't an act of God.

Israelites enslaving and raping virgins and slaughtering their families in cold blood is certainly not an act of God, but you seem to be arguing that we should consider it as one and therefore not condemn it.

On that, I can't join you.

I asked whether you were proud that you are more extreme a religious fanatic than Al Qaeda. We've established that I don't (and won't) share your views that the Israelites' actions can be condoned.

Are you ashamed of your views, or just ashamed to say whether you are proud to be a bigger fanatic than AQ?

Cheers,
Shafique

Berrin · Mar 19, 2010

Eh when you are giving answers or asking questions, why do you live your logic and common senses out of the business. You don't always have to disagree you know..
How many earthquake machines do you think mankind will built that will shake not only few houses but so many villages, cities or infact a continent, all at the same time...It's crazeee...
You do know that natural disasters are acts of God. Do you deny it becouse your God is incapable?
If you wanna know what a natural disaster or an act of God is then read the story of prophet Moses, it's beautifully written and very impressive...
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/3366/viewall/

On the other hand, If a normal human kills innocient people or an enemy, it cannot be an act of God but his personal will. Whereas an act of a prophet when killing another person cannot be without the permission of God due to their status quo and receiving revelation and being guided by God.
A proper God cannot ever order slaughtering of virgins, innocent people or babies or animals etc. etc.
In short, God cannot be less logical than what he created as humans.Okay.

event horizon · Mar 20, 2010

Hey, you should tell that to Moses - who not only killed an Egyptian but murdered apostates according to the Koran.

Anyways, I'm curious if you condone the actions of humans if they were to cause an avalanche or tidal wave ??

I mean, they didn't kill anyone. That avalanche or wall of water was an act of God, right?

shafique · Mar 20, 2010

shafique wrote:I asked whether you were proud that you are more extreme a religious fanatic than Al Qaeda. We've established that I don't (and won't) share your views that the Israelites' actions can be condoned.

Are you ashamed of your views, or just ashamed to say whether you are proud to be a bigger fanatic than AQ?

Berrin · Mar 20, 2010

Hey, you should tell that to Moses - who not only killed an Egyptian but murdered apostates according to the Koran.

Remember he was a servant of God, not only an ordinary servant but a guided prophet who talked directly with God..
Eh,will you love God when your time comes to departure no matter what you're doing? like, even if you're killed sitting in a good al chair reading your book? or while being in fight with your brother?

Anyways, I'm curious if you condone the actions of humans if they were to cause an avalanche or tidal wave ??

if it's the actions of humans where it's deliberatly done to kill themselves and others, no..

Also, the avalanche or a wall of water can perfectly be an act of God where there is no human interference.

now how old are you that you cannot establish the difference between them? Not all your responses can be due to your stubborness against islam and islamic God you know. When are you gonna start to be a decent man whom we can have constructive talk with..
You sound as if you are out of this world. And as if someone not gonna share the same destiny like we all.
Are you waiting your Rapture Eh?

shafique · Mar 20, 2010

eh - the war crime you are condoning is described as genocide here:

The Old Testament describes the genocides of Amalekites and Midianites.[8] Jones quotes Jerusalem-based Holocaust Studies Professor Yehuda Bauer: "As a Jew, I must live with the fact that the civilization I inherited ... encompasses the call for genocide in its canon."[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_ ... efore_1490

event horizon · Mar 20, 2010

now how old are you that you cannot establish the difference between them? Not all your responses can be due to your stubborness against islam and islamic God you know. When are you gonna start to be a decent man whom we can have constructive talk with..
You sound as if you are out of this world. And as if someone not gonna share the same destiny like we all.
Are you waiting your Rapture Eh?

The point is, is that Allah purposely causes suffering for humans. These are not natural disasters (some of them never even occur in nature) but catastrophic events purposely caused by Allah.

shafique · Mar 21, 2010

We've acknowledged that you equate Acts of God with the war crimes of the Israelites. We've told you that you won't convince us to join you in equating a natural disaster with cold blooded massacres and rapes by humans.

Why are you avoiding the logical conclusion of your views?:

shafique wrote:I understand you have a logic to equate the enslavement of virgins and their rape with natural disasters. I just happen to not share this view - and think it rather perverse a way to justify murder and rape by Israelites.

The question though was whether you acknowledge you are more extreme than Al Qaeda and are proud of this fact.

I suspect I'll be repeating the question a few times.

Cheers,
Shafique

Do you really think you'll convince anyone to join you in condoning the Biblical war crimes? Can you get one person to join you here and support your view (you may want to ask chev-the-chav - he's your best bet)

Shafique

event horizon · Mar 21, 2010

No rapes - that's your deviant imagination at work again.

The question is simple, has Allah caused suffering in the lives of countless innocent civilians? (We're not talking about real natural disasters, like the earthquakes of modern times, but destruction caused by Allah himself).

shafique · Mar 22, 2010

Bumped the message below - it appears 'eh' is avoiding acknowledging that he is more extreme a religious fanatic than Al Qaeda!

shafique · Mar 22, 2010

So the virgins weren't raped (and you say I have an active imagination!) ? If they were, would you then condemn the Israelite's for enslaving 32,000 virgins after slaughtering in cold blood the non-virgins?

But the point is that you don't deny you are a more extreme religious fanatic than Al Qaeda because you condone what the Israelites did to the virgins after the massacres of the non-virgins.

Do you disagree with the quote I gave in the other thread that this crime is also a genocide:

The Old Testament describes the genocides of Amalekites and Midianites.[9] Jones quotes Jerusalem-based Holocaust Studies Professor Yehuda Bauer: "As a Jew, I must live with the fact that the civilization I inherited ... encompasses the call for genocide in its canon."[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_ ... efore_1490

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Mar 22, 2010

Why don't you consult Hans Kung to see what he has to say ???

shafique · Mar 23, 2010

I'm pretty sure he'll confirm you're a more extreme religious fanatic than Al Qaeda for condoning what Professor Yehuda Bauer says was a genocide - based on the empirical fact you are condoning the enslavement of virgins after the Israelites committed the genocide.

Do you think otherwise?

Are you proud to be more extreme than Al Qaeda?

event horizon · Mar 23, 2010

I'll first have to look at my own posts before I can decide if I agree with you.

Why don't you quote them and, in the meantime, get around to answering my question if you agree with me that Allah causes suffering.

shafique · Mar 23, 2010

Hey, so you want to change the subject and not address the topic of this thread - which is 'Biblical War Crimes'.

So, you don't deny the fact that you are condoning a genocide and are more extreme a religious fanantic than Al Qaeda.

The question you are avoiding though is:
Are you proud of this fact - that you are more extreme a religious fanatic than AQ?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Mar 23, 2010

event horizon wrote:I'll first have to look at my own posts before I can decide if I agree with you.

Why don't you quote them and, in the meantime, get around to answering my question if you agree with me that Allah causes suffering.

What's so difficult about doing what I requested?

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