- Liban wrote:
What makes you say that arab muslims think they are better? Give me concrete examples.
concrete example is bazooka, only gulf arabs Liban bazooka confided to me that she is Iranian.... Liban
- laila k m wrote:
why do arab muslim think that they are better then muslims from other parts of the world especially south east asia?
God chose an Arab to become His final and greatest messanger. The Quran is in arabic, God spoke to man through the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in Arabic, our main holy places (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) are in Arab lands.
Take these factors and it gives someone an inflated head... Doesn't mean its correct, but it happens like in all cultures....
Do not generalize... not all Arabs think they are better, just a few, and you got that in all cultures...
PS - We arabs don't think we are better, we KNOW we are better than everyone else :lol: just kidding... sniper420
- Liban wrote:
bazooka confided to me that she is Iranian....
That what's wrong with most of arabs, Bazoooka lived there for years and she is an Arab, there isnt anything called pure Arab and FYI lebanese ppl arent pure arabs and u have proved my point what ever be the case arabs will have prejudice against other races. :lol: Liban Your last statement made no sense!!!
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sniper420
- Liban wrote:
Your last statement made no sense!!!
cos u dont have any :lol: Liban Yes and you do... :roll: Pumpkin Escobar I dont know why, they live in the desert! BobbieMasoner
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
(you're going to get yourself in trrouuubbllee....) :wink: sniper420
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
so they can get an animal named Pumpkin and fry it and make sheesh kabob and send em to the Texan Dubyah :lol: Liban
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
What do you mean by that? Pumpkin Escobar It's HOT!!! If ya'll wanna fight over it, go ahead. :) Lee well.. am an Arab and my GF - so far - is Indian. how do u think arab think now? abs :?: :?: :?: :?: .....
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
It's HOT!!! If ya'll wanna fight over it, go ahead. :)
No comment bro :) Liban
- Lee wrote:
well.. am an Arab and my GF - so far - is Indian. how do u think arab think now?
I think you are trying to say that you are an Arab dating an Indian, thus proving the point that we Arabs are not all racist only a small shallow bunch... I fully support that argument and I wish you all the best with your g/f... Is she Muslim? Lee
- Liban wrote:
I think you are trying to say that you are an Arab dating an Indian, thus proving the point that we Arabs are not all racist only a small shallow bunch... I fully support that argument and I wish you all the best with your g/f... Is she Muslim?
No she is Christian. am not into religion practically even if am so much theoretically.
PS: she s got dark skin while am fair. BALA raciest BALA BALLOOT. Liban Dude, ana mini racist :) nezar33 Arab people arent racist if you met one or two doesnt mean they are all racist..go to every where in the world and you will see alot of racist people this doesnt mean the whole country is racist...about arab think they are over other people this doesnt make any sense ..and your question if its shows of something then it shows that you are not self confident enough that you are not sure of yourself..stop imagining silly things and get a life agnostic27 everywhere there is discrimination, may it be racial, social standings, education etc etc.
even south east asian have their discrimination among 'them'
even blacks
even the jews
its human nature
so let it be, maybe someday things will change, but not now, hu hu hu :cry: :cry:
- agnostic27 wrote:
everywhere there is discrimination, may it be racial, social standings, education etc etc.
even south east asian have their discrimination among 'them'
even blacks
even the jews
its human nature
so let it be, maybe someday things will change, but not now, hu hu hu :cry: :cry:
Could you please take put the picture from the signature is disgusting. Liban
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
So Iranians consider themsleves Persian? Are they the ones with the red hair? How is the Arab/Persian classification defined?
Iranians of today are not that similar to the Persians of 5000 years ago thanks to conquests of Greeks and Arabs to name a few.
Iranians are not Arabs. Iranians are a nation (ethnicity) of their own, with their own language. Their writing is the same as Arabic because when they accepted Islam they took on that calligraphy too as did the Afgans and Pakistanis to name a few... Liban
- sniper420 wrote:
- agnostic27 wrote:
everywhere there is discrimination, may it be racial, social standings, education etc etc.
even south east asian have their discrimination among 'them'
even blacks
even the jews
its human nature
so let it be, maybe someday things will change, but not now, hu hu hu :cry: :cry:
Could you please take put the picture from the signature is disgusting. - agnostic27 wrote:
Seriously, its disgusting and very unbecoming of these forums... agnostic27
- Liban wrote:
- sniper420 wrote:
- agnostic27 wrote:
everywhere there is discrimination, may it be racial, social standings, education etc etc.
even south east asian have their discrimination among 'them'
even blacks
even the jews
its human nature
so let it be, maybe someday things will change, but not now, hu hu hu :cry: :cry:
Could you please take put the picture from the signature is disgusting. - agnostic27 wrote:
Seriously, its disgusting and very unbecoming of these forums... - sniper420 wrote:
Finally, liban & sniper agreed on something
yeh sorry for that disturbn pix
Iranian speaks Farsi, am i right?
The writing looks arabic but its not, did they made that from arabic or its more ancient than arabic? agnostic27 In this big universe, God made all the religion here on earth Do you think that there is a life more superior than humans on other galaxies? Are they Christians or Muslims? Mankind categorized themselves in many form, that 'category' made them discriminate others. We(mankind) consider ourselves superior to all beings. Its human nature, as i said... Liban
- agnostic27 wrote:
Finally, liban & sniper agreed on something
yeh sorry for that disturbn pix
Iranian speaks Farsi, am i right?
The writing looks arabic but its not, did they made that from arabic or its more ancient than arabic?
Thanks for removing it...
Iranians speak Farsi yes.
Their writing was taken from the Arabs after they converted to Islam. During the course of the centuries, I think they added an extra letter or two... smilar to the Pakistanis and Afgans... castellano
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
hey man ,,, your comments are hilarious ,,,god ,, really you make me fall apart of laughing ,,, you just come with coolness and give those comments ,,damn ,, how do you do that man ,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: castellano
- sniper420 wrote:
cos they are fools... take Liban for example :lol:
ohh fools ???? and what do you call what is in the avatar beside your name ? arent you fool enough to shoot mices ,,just for other cats come and just pick them with no effort ,,, i thought that liban was a little mad at you coz of nothing ,, but now i see why he is so annoyed !!!!! dont you ever speak about arabs like this nor about muslims ,,,especially if you live in dubai or in an arab country ,,,, this place is called a forum not a f*cking place where you can just give those stupid comments ,,,
by the way ,,, where do you come from " you clever " ,, so we can all here get benifit of the cleverness experience of your people ???? castellano
- Liban wrote:
- laila k m wrote:
why do arab muslim think that they are better then muslims from other parts of the world especially south east asia?
God chose an Arab to become His final and greatest messanger. The Quran is in arabic, God spoke to man through the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in Arabic, our main holy places (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) are in Arab lands.
Take these factors and it gives someone an inflated head... Doesn't mean its correct, but it happens like in all cultures....
Do not generalize... not all Arabs think they are better, just a few, and you got that in all cultures...
PS - We arabs don't think we are better, we KNOW we are better than everyone else :lol: just kidding... - laila k m wrote:
well, liban ,, allow me to correct you . being an arab doesnt give us the right to look in such a way ,,, i am talking about muslim point of view ,, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said : there is no preferences for an arab over a foreinger ,, or for a white man over a black one ,, the preferece is only by being a good Muslim .
in the Quraan :: We made you tribes and different people to make you get to know each other , the preffered for God is the one who obeys him most .
and this explains it ... but ,, as in any country ,,, there are stupid people who take it this way ,,, you know ,,even an arab when he goes to europe or usa or where ever ,,,,, they will look at him the same way you "laila " complained about that arabs muslims will look at other muslims ,, of course this is not general ,,, and usually in rich countries ,,, unfortunatly ,, its like this ,,, they just feel proud of themselves so that they forget that they are just the same like others . castellano
- abs wrote:
Its the language.
It has always been about their language.
They speakth the ancient language since their begining.
Wheras other Muslims are just trying to cope with the language.
Just like Chinese from Beijing...they tend to look down upon other Chinese "grown" elsewhere.
They believe that Mandarin is the highest form of language and that it is the language of God. I actually kinda believe that. All chinese words are drawings...pictograph.
see Abs ?????? i think now that its obvious for anybody to see how you are just trying to insult either muslims ,, or arabs ,,, well,, let me tell you something ,, being an arab ,,will make you understand Quraan better man ,, coz its your language ,, although its not an absolute advantage , Hamza Yosuf is a guy from usa ,, he is originally from there,, he doesnt come from any arab origin ,,,of course he converted to Islam ,, and he speaks Arabic even better than me . I mean the formal Arabic .
you can check this out : /
i dont know if he has any other links .
anyway ,,, think about what you said the other day ,,, "I just want to get explanations ." what kind of explanation do you want on such a comment ? castellano
- sniper420 wrote:
- Liban wrote:
bazooka confided to me that she is Iranian....
That what's wrong with most of arabs, Bazoooka lived there for years and she is an Arab, there isnt anything called pure Arab and FYI lebanese ppl arent pure arabs and u have proved my point what ever be the case arabs will have prejudice against other races. :lol: - Liban wrote:
well,, let me tell you someting sniper ,, about the locals here ,,, the very original ones are very high leveled ones ,,, i mean the ones who didnt aquiered the nationality of living here so much time . i ment the ORIGINAL LOCALS ,,,, and those are way different from the locals you see in the usual life ,,,,, i ment by high leveled ,, that they are educated ,,, not nessessarly acadimically ,,but in their minds ,,, i met so many of them ,,,, but the problem of those who got the nationality of uae ,, and try to show up being a uae natial ,,, i dont know about bazooca ,,, in which part of the gulf she is living ,,, but ,, if in dubai ,, she is fore sure one of these . castellano
- agnostic27 wrote:
everywhere there is discrimination, may it be racial, social standings, education etc etc.
even south east asian have their discrimination among 'them'
even blacks
even the jews
its human nature
so let it be, maybe someday things will change, but not now, hu hu hu :cry: :cry:
yeaaaaaah ,, there is even discrimination in the photo you have there ,, god ,, what does this girl do with her face ???????? i wish its not you :lol: Liban
- castellano wrote:
by the way ,,, where do you come from " you clever " ,, so we can all here get benifit of the cleverness experience of your people ????
He is Iranian even though he denies it.... castellano
- Liban wrote:
- castellano wrote:
by the way ,,, where do you come from " you clever " ,, so we can all here get benifit of the cleverness experience of your people ????
He is Iranian even though he denies it.... - castellano wrote:
NO COMMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Liban
- castellano wrote:
well, liban ,, allow me to correct you . being an arab doesnt give us the right to look in such a way ,,, i am talking about muslim point of view ,, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said : there is no preferences for an arab over a foreinger ,, or for a white man over a black one ,, the preferece is only by being a good Muslim .
in the Quraan :: We made you tribes and different people to make you get to know each other , the preffered for God is the one who obeys him most .
and this explains it ... but ,, as in any country ,,, there are stupid people who take it this way ,,, you know ,,even an arab when he goes to europe or usa or where ever ,,,,, they will look at him the same way you "laila " complained about that arabs muslims will look at other muslims ,, of course this is not general ,,, and usually in rich countries ,,, unfortunatly ,, its like this ,,, they just feel proud of themselves so that they forget that they are just the same like others .
I agree with you ya khayyi... I think I came out wrong, I meant to say that simply because we are Arabs doesn't make us better than other non-Arab Muslims....
Over 75% of all Muslims are non-Arabs.... castellano
- Liban wrote:
- castellano wrote:
I agree with you ya khayyi... I think I came out wrong, I meant to say that simply because we are Arabs doesn't make us better than other non-Arab Muslims....
Over 75% of all Muslims are non-Arabs....
ohh ,sorry ,, then we are ok . Pumpkin Escobar- castellano wrote:
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
hey man ,,, your comments are hilarious ,,,god ,, really you make me fall apart of laughing ,,, you just come with coolness and give those comments ,,damn ,, how do you do that man ,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: - Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I feel as though I am being mocked............ :? castellano- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
- castellano wrote:
- Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I dont know why, they live in the desert!
hey man ,,, your comments are hilarious ,,,god ,, really you make me fall apart of laughing ,,, you just come with coolness and give those comments ,,damn ,, how do you do that man ,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: - Pumpkin Escobar wrote:
I feel as though I am being mocked............ :? - castellano wrote:
hey man ,, you are not being mocked ,,, at least by me loool ,, but really i like your comments a lot . mAJOR pAIN- Lee wrote:
well.. am an Arab and my GF - so far - is Indian. how do u think arab think now?
... ... well i guess theres no prob with that ... man ... if you think that others may object ,... and you actually think about your diff. much ,,,, then dude i do have a reality check with you .... Your being racist ... not really the people around you ... i mean ... ive seen your other post ...
"mentioning that she has dark skin ... and your fair .... " ive just wanted to know if you've post that because you wanted your ego to be boosted??.. or you might have not noticed it .. but without knowing you have been discriminating your girl .. by actually saying those stuff .... because there is a dash of descrimination in that tone ..... cause dude if you look around ... mix races doo date here in dubai ... its a multi national country for crying out loud !!! WE ARE USED TO IT and WE DONT REALLY CARE WHAT ACCENT OR LANGUAGFE YOU SPEAK .. AND WHAT COLOR OF SKIN DO YOU HAVE ... AND IVE HAD LOTS OF LOCAL FRIENDS ... MY HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS i dont really see them minding ... dating other race ... well actually most locals and other arabs do love the fact that they would date other national... well if youve thought of that and actually came out of your way to drastically point out you and GF have ... then i may say my friend .. you dont really have to worry of what other arabs or other people might think ... the one you have to worry is your self ... BECAuse YOU - R - A RACIST without you knowing that your doing it ... u betta change your ways and pray 1000 times !!!! lol :lol: Lee- mAJOR pAIN wrote:
- Lee wrote:
well.. am an Arab and my GF - so far - is Indian. how do u think arab think now?
... ... well i guess theres no prob with that ... man ... if you think that others may object ,... and you actually think about your diff. much ,,,, then dude i do have a reality check with you .... Your being racist ... not really the people around you ... i mean ... ive seen your other post ...
"mentioning that she has dark skin ... and your fair .... " ive just wanted to know if you've post that because you wanted your ego to be boosted??.. or you might have not noticed it .. but without knowing you have been discriminating your girl .. by actually saying those stuff .... because there is a dash of descrimination in that tone ..... cause dude if you look around ... mix races doo date here in dubai ... its a multi national country for crying out loud !!! WE ARE USED TO IT and WE DONT REALLY CARE WHAT ACCENT OR LANGUAGFE YOU SPEAK .. AND WHAT COLOR OF SKIN DO YOU HAVE ... AND IVE HAD LOTS OF LOCAL FRIENDS ... MY HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS i dont really see them minding ... dating other race ... well actually most locals and other arabs do love the fact that they would date other national... well if youve thought of that and actually came out of your way to drastically point out you and GF have ... then i may say my friend .. you dont really have to worry of what other arabs or other people might think ... the one you have to worry is your self ... BECAuse YOU - R - A RACIST without you knowing that your doing it ... u betta change your ways and pray 1000 times !!!! lol :lol: - Lee wrote:
It seems there is an inferiority complex inside every race that considers itself exposed to raciest differentiation.
Anyway, I don’t need to prove it with you guys, because it will go on and on and on and it might show up all the stress inside you caused by this problem.
Enough for my own confidence that I love my GF.
Cheers mAJOR pAIN- Lee wrote:
- mAJOR pAIN wrote:
- Lee wrote:
well.. am an Arab and my GF - so far - is Indian. how do u think arab think now?
... ... well i guess theres no prob with that ... man ... if you think that others may object ,... and you actually think about your diff. much ,,,, then dude i do have a reality check with you .... Your being racist ... not really the people around you ... i mean ... ive seen your other post ...
"mentioning that she has dark skin ... and your fair .... " ive just wanted to know if you've post that because you wanted your ego to be boosted??.. or you might have not noticed it .. but without knowing you have been discriminating your girl .. by actually saying those stuff .... because there is a dash of descrimination in that tone ..... cause dude if you look around ... mix races doo date here in dubai ... its a multi national country for crying out loud !!! WE ARE USED TO IT and WE DONT REALLY CARE WHAT ACCENT OR LANGUAGFE YOU SPEAK .. AND WHAT COLOR OF SKIN DO YOU HAVE ... AND IVE HAD LOTS OF LOCAL FRIENDS ... MY HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS i dont really see them minding ... dating other race ... well actually most locals and other arabs do love the fact that they would date other national... well if youve thought of that and actually came out of your way to drastically point out you and GF have ... then i may say my friend .. you dont really have to worry of what other arabs or other people might think ... the one you have to worry is your self ... BECAuse YOU - R - A RACIST without you knowing that your doing it ... u betta change your ways and pray 1000 times !!!! lol :lol: - Lee wrote:
It seems there is an inferiority complex inside every race that considers itself exposed to raciest differentiation.
Anyway, I don’t need to prove it with you guys, because it will go on and on and on and it might show up all the stress inside you caused by this problem.
Enough for my own confidence that I love my GF.
Cheers - mAJOR pAIN wrote:
now thats thw right way of saying it ....
NOT " Ilove my Girl Even if she's ..... "
NOT " I love my girl inspite of the fact that she is ... "
it should be ..... " I LOVE MY GIRL ."
cause with love ... we get to be color blind ...
with love we tend to bend and mend ...
with love theres no measurement of reason ... emadullah- Liban wrote:
- laila k m wrote:
why do arab muslim think that they are better then muslims from other parts of the world especially south east asia?
God chose an Arab to become His final and greatest messanger. The Quran is in arabic, God spoke to man through the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in Arabic, our main holy places (Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem) are in Arab lands.
Take these factors and it gives someone an inflated head... Doesn't mean its correct, but it happens like in all cultures....
Do not generalize... not all Arabs think they are better, just a few, and you got that in all cultures...
PS - We arabs don't think we are better, we KNOW we are better than everyone else :lol: just kidding... - laila k m wrote:
yeah all arab dont think they are greater..but few..let them to think..even Christian people also think that Jesus is the Son of the God..Jews think that are the blessed one and they will go directly in the heaven.let them to think...even a frog also thinking that the well where it is living is the complete world...
"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God" ...
Rember this points:
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: Do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.” kanelli- emadullah wrote:
Rember this points:
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: Do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.”
Now that sounds like peaceful and fair talk. :) emadullah- kanelli wrote:
- emadullah wrote:
Rember this points:
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: Do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.”
Now that sounds like peaceful and fair talk. :) - emadullah wrote:
u look like a frog of a well...:) i mean ur avatar kanelli Sorry, I don't understand what "frong on a well" means. emadullah- kanelli wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand what "frong on a well" means.
nothing just kidding..dont mind
:) kanelli It is a monkey hanging out in a lawn chair :) shafique This is what the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said on the subject "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves." Taken from his final/farewell sermon - just to a google.. Wasalaam, Shafique emadullah- shafique wrote:
This is what the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said on the subject
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves."
Taken from his final/farewell sermon - just to a google..
Wasalaam,
Shafique
just to a google ?? wats the meaning of this
anyway i did not say that is my message..did i ?
why did u pasted same sentense again? arniegang i think Shaf meant "do a google" as in" search on google" shafique oops - sorry, Arnie is right - meant to type 'do a google' not 'to a google' :) You can do a search on Google for the Prophet (s.a.w.) final sermon for the full text. Emadullah - I wasn't replying or responding to anyone in particular, I just wanted to show what the Prophet Muhammad said on the subject of this discussion thread. I think it speaks for itself - apologies for any confusion and my typo! Wasalaam, Shafique arniegang shaf wot is s.a.w ?? shafique Arniegang - whenever a muslim mentions the name of a prophet, they say a prayer to show respect to him. In the same way that a knight of the realm is always addressed as 'Sir', so muslims show respect to prophets and even companions of prophets. The highest prophet in status - for the fact that he brought the last testament and religion - is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, s.a.w. The s.a.w. is an abbreviation of the prayer that Muslims say whenever we say or hear his name and stands for "Sallalahu alaihee wa aalihi wa sallum" or shortened to "sallalahu alaihee wa sallum" which translates to "peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his family" or in the shortened version just 'peace and blessings of Allah be upon him'. Sometimes this is abbreviated in English as Muhammad, pbuh (peace be upon him). When any other prophet is mentioned, the prayer 'Allaihee as Salaam' = 'on who whom be peace' is said after their name (abbreviateed a.s. ) For any companion of a prophet - i.e. a follower who lived and met a prophet - we say the prayer "radhi allahu anhu" = "may Allah be pleased with him" (or ..anha for a lady), when we say their name. Please excuse the transliterations all you Arabic speakers! Wasalaam Shafique arniegang thanks shaf emadullah- shafique wrote:
The highest prophet in status - for the fact that he brought the last testament and religion - is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, s.a.w.
Does it mean Prophet Muhamed (SAW) has brougt islam as last religion ? how about Jesus (PBUH)? did he bring christianity as religion ? how about mosa (PBUH) did he bring Jewism ? if so then what religion did Adam bring ? shafique The Quran says that Islam is the final religion and no new religion is required. If you go to the tread 'Tragedy in Mecca' you will find I have explained the Islamic stance vis-a-vis earlier religions (that they are all valid, but were limited in time and space. All these religions state that a new reformer and new law was to come in future. Islam makes the claim of being the fulfilment of all these promises.) Take care. Wasalaam, Shafique arniegang this is the thread to which Shaf refers: and very informative it is too HP banned- Quote:
- Does it mean Prophet Muhamed (SAW) has brougt islam as last religion ? how about Jesus (PBUH)? did he bring christianity as religion ? how about mosa (PBUH) did he bring Jewism ? if so then what religion did Adam bring ?
[color=red]Adam has brought his wife Hawa (Eve) :) [/color] kelly1966- yorky500 wrote:
If we all let people get on and do there own thing, instead of trying to force it down other peoples throats and claiming one is better than the other, we could all live in harmony.
Very well said Yorky.....I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!! yorky500 Its truly amazing really when you think about it. We all have different religeous beliefs, yet it one and the same person (we hope). Religion and politics are the two manin driving forces behind all the conflict in this world, wether it be Africa, Europe, Asia or anywhere else for that fact. If we all let people get on and do there own thing, instead of trying to force it down other peoples throats and claiming one is better than the other, we could all live in harmony. Religion is your own belief, do not try to force it on others (not pointing fingers, but just generally in life.) wolfsievers Matthew 15:10-11 "Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' " " Matthew 15:16-20 ""Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' " " Both Jesus and Paul said that it did not matter what you ate which included pork. As has been said before, the Old Testament clearly states that pork is forbidden under the kosher laws which is why some Jewish people do not eat pork. Christian doctrine however, does not accept kosher food laws for the reasons noted above. Jesus came to preach the gospel. The Jews were given privilege to receive it first and this was Jesus’ initial mission (cf. e.g., Rom 1:16). But the mission did not end there since Jesus continued his mission to the Gentiles as the risen Lord through his Church. rudeboy lol i do agree with da main topic dat arabs think that they R IT only been in dubai for 4 years and i have experienced enuf been treated like a piece of dirt by an arab funny thing is da guy treated me like dirt looking at me like i didnt belong here lol anyways da day he finds out i m a muslim and am prayin at da same mosque where he does his whole attitude changes bro liban u said earlier on about prophet muhammed being arabic da quraan being arabic i agree in all of that that islam started from Arabia itself and it spred from asia to europe but bro u sayin all of dat makes it sound like that ARABS are IT they are at the TOP of the hirearchy of human race dats not how it is bro cos god said and quraan says treat all men as equal to u when u go to da mosque reading namaz u standing there shoulder to shoulder to the next guy do u think den that UR IT so i m sorry i do agree with this topic dat arabs do think of themselves too much islam spred from arabia so dont u think arabs should be good role models for everyone else to follow if they stopped thinking too much of themselves i really think dis world would be a peaceful place to live in and wots more islam would spred thank u remember ppl to treat everyone exactly da same doesnt matter if they are rich or poor black or white they are humans they have da same rights to be on earth as da same right u have Liban Arabs are not better than anyone..... Nobody is better than anybody.... The Prophet (PBUH) himself said so. But Arabic is the greatest language out there, it is the language of the Quran after all, it is the language of God Himself, it is the language of the angels and it is the language of Paradise. kelly1966 Great opinion Liban........ Sorry have to disagree with you on that one..... shafique The status of Arabic as a language is an interesting one. Here are some facts.. Of all the languages in which religious books have been revealed/written, Arabic is the only one that still has native speakers. In fact, there are more Arabic speakers now than when the Quran was revealed. Another fact, is that of all the languages in the world 1600 to 2000 years ago, only Arabic is one that has more speakers now than had then. Even the English spoken 500 years ago will be unitelligible to the modern day anglophone (English speaker). The same applies to 'Indian' and 'Chinese' languages. Ancient Greek and Latin are similarly unintelligible to modern day Greeks and Italians (but there are scholars who have learnt these languages - but they are no one's mother tongue, or intelligble in any one's mother tongue). Philology is the study of languages - and a general consensus is that the older a language is, the more root words that language has - the richer is that language. Newer languages tend to have more words which can have multiple meanings, and more compound words. Arabic happens to have the richest (largest) number of root words than any other language. Now, this is where things get a little contentious - Muslims say that there is a promise in the Quran that the Book/Message will be preserved by God. There is also reference to why it was revealed in Arabic (because it is a clear language - specific words have specific and unambiguous meanings). Muslims say that the preservation of the Quran extends to the preservation of the means of understanding the original words, in their original context - i.e. in Arabic. The Quran is an aural tradition (it was recited to Muhammad, pbuh, who recited to others who memorised and recited it to others). The primary way of safeguarding the text was by memorisation, and writing it down was secondary. This preserved not just what was said, but how it was said (that is why prayers etc are recited in the original Arabic). Another contentious point - there is no language that pre-dates Arabic. There are views that there 'must' have been a common root language to the modern day languages - but there are scholars who believe that this proto-language is actually Arabic. But this gets into a philological debate that will probably not interest most people reading this. Suffice to say, Arabic is an ancient language and is unique in the fact that it is the only language of 1500 years ago that is widely understood in its original (i.e. it is the only 'living' language, from that period - contrast say with Latin which was a later language). Just a few of my thoughts. :) Cheers, Shafique kanelli Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now? Liban- kelly1966 wrote:
Great opinion Liban........
Sorry have to disagree with you on that one.....
Not an opinion, but God's Truth. Its in the Quran. Arabic is the language of Paradise, the language of God and the angels.
But that in no way makes Arabs any better than non-Arabs. On the contrary we are all equal and subservient to God.
PS - Aramaic (language of Jesus), is rooted in Arabic. wolfsievers When God sent His Son to this world it just so happened to be in the land of Israel, God's chosen people. Where arabic is spoken. The 3 wisemen were arabs but not a mention of what religion they were, but assuming they were Christian, as they came to pay homage to the Son of God. He says, she says, they say, we say, its all a matter of what we have in our hearts and the faith that will get us to what God has promised in the end. It is not for us to judge what others believe is right or wrong who is the better race or what is truth or what language is spoken there, but to leave all things up to Him who will show us all in the end. kelly1966 Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic, but remember a Muslim is not necessarily an Arab, Arabs can be Christian as well.
How do you know its the language of paradise? It will be a language spoken and known by all not just Muslims...what about the people who can't speak or understand Arabic????
God's language is universal . Gods language is what we understand in our mother tongue. shafique Apologies for being pedantic - but the 3 wise men/kings could not have been 'Christian' as the religion only came into being after the crucifixion, many decades in time later. Also, Jesus (peace on him), was a practicing Jew who prostrated himself before God when praying (according to the Bible - see references to prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane), never ate pork, was circumcised and only preached to other Israelites. He only claimed to be the Messiah of the Children of Israel. And for balance, Aramaic is not quite Arabic - although it is derived from Arabic. Wasalaam, Shafique kelly1966- shafique wrote:
And for balance, Aramaic is not quite Arabic - although it is derived from Arabic.
I believe I already clarified this in my above post...........
"Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic" wolfsievers Jesus was never a practicing jew, that why he was condemned by the Jewish religious leaders, he never followed their rules. He came to fulfill the law not to change the law. He was the Messiah to everyone, not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles as well. When He came to earth He was the Messiah of God. He preached both to the Gentiles and the Jews. He is the Son of God, the only way to heaven . No reference as to whether he ate pork or not and in the new testament all food was made good. In the end, it will be God who judges, not us, and then we will all learn the truth of our ways. The Book of Life will hold the names of all who are going to sit at the right hand of God the Father. Amen Liban- kelly1966 wrote:
Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic, but remember a Muslim is not necessarily an Arab, Arabs can be Christian as well.
How do you know its the language of paradise? It will be a language spoken and known by all not just Muslims...what about the people who can't speak or understand Arabic????
God's language is universal . Gods language is what we understand in our mother tongue.
We will not be in our form in Paradise. Even Muslims from other non-Arab countries that do not speak trhe language in this life will know it. There is a massive difference between this life and the next.
Of course Arabs are not all Muslims, I never said that. And not all Muslims are Arabs... There are more non-Arab Muslims than Arabs!!! Liban- wolfsievers wrote:
Jesus was never a practicing jew, that why he was condemned by the Jewish religious leaders, he never followed their rules. He came to fulfill the law not to change the law. He was the Messiah to everyone, not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles as well. When He came to earth He was the Messiah of God. He preached both to the Gentiles and the Jews. He is the Son of God, the only way to heaven . No reference as to whether he ate pork or not and in the new testament all food was made good. In the end, it will be God who judges, not us, and then we will all learn the truth of our ways. The Book of Life will hold the names of all who are going to sit at the right hand of God the Father.
Amen
Fact
1) He was the prophet to follow Moses and the one to bring order to the world
2) The Jews did not accept him
3) After his death, man's sins multiplied until the final of all His Glorious Messangers was sent to man, Mohammed (PBUH)
More facts
1) Jesus was not cruxified. God saved him and put an imposter in his place to make the Jews feel pain. That IS the POWER of God.
2) Jesus was a good Jew. He also knew his place. A place determined by God. To be the person to save them from sin. As a good Jew, it is determined that he didn't eat pork. Neither did his mother, Mary.
3) Jesus was not the son of God. God has no children. Only servants, man. wolfsievers You quote the quran and I will quote the bible and one day we will meet in the other world and then we will both know who was right and who was wrong. Except a man be born again he will not see the kingdom of heaven and every christian knows what that means. Nothing anyone says otherwise will ever make me angry or mad because faith is believing in what you cannot see but you know it is surely there. I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions and you are more than welcomed to yours. That is what I call respect for one another. We are all equal in God's eyes, and we have in this great world the freedom of speech and we were given the will to use our minds for the good that God wants us to do on this earth to prepare the way to the life that will begin in a new world free of all the woes of this temporary world. Anyone can make claims, proving them is another matter. shafique Kelly - sorry I should have been clearer in what I said - I was agreeing with you that Jesus spoke Aramaic. (Many Christians actually argue that the lingua franka at the time was Greek - to explain why some of the oldest NT fragments are written in Greek - but given that the Romans were in charge, I never bought this argument. The notable point is that the NT was never written down in Jesus' mother tongue of Aramaic - although his Aramaic words when on the cross have been preserved. Also note that even at the time of Jesus, Hebrew was a language of religious scholars.) Apologies again for appearing to criticise. cheers, Shafique kelly1966 Shafique, No worries.....nice to see that we can talk about 2 different religions peacefully. Now Liban, I would like to know where you got your facts so that I can read them.....You must remember if it is from that Quran, then that is your belief not mine and if it is from the Bible, then I would really like to see where it says that Jesus and Mary never ate pork, etc. Quote me the scripture!!!! I appreciate what you are trying to say but you must remember, what you believe in and what I believe in are 2 totally different things, and you should not be trying to make yourself look correct when it come to quoting facts from the Bible. I find with you, you're right when it comes to religion and everyone else is wrong. I don't really like the way you are coming across here. As I said earlier, Muslims and Christians don't believe in the same things, some things are the same but alot of things aren't as well. If you can verify your facts with direct quotes from the Bible, then let me hear it. sleepless.in.dubai You know what boggles the mind? Jews believe in God, Christians believe in the same God, Muslims believe in the same God, and non-religious people (like myself) believe in the SAME God. Why are there different religions? Why are there differences, dislike and animosity between different religions? Why can't we all just have one religion: The religion of people who believe in God? I think the world would be a better, more peaceful place if that was the case! shafique Just on the point about Jesus following the laws of Judaism - all references in the Bible are of Jesus only preaching to Jews and always following Judaic law. He did go against the Pharisees and Priests - but only in relation to where they were going against Jewish law. All food being made lawful took place after St Paul had a vision - this was after Jesus had left Palestine after the crucifixion. The other disciples were not comfortable with the change in message after this point - that the message should be taken to Gentiles and that now circumcision was not a requirement and that pork was no longer forbidden. No where does Jesus say that the commandment forbidding eating pork was rescinded. Neither Jesus nor his mother are recorded as meeting Paul, and scholars are unanimous that Jesus was a practising Jew (hence he never ate pork). As to why there are religious wars - it's either because one side fighting against injustice, or that religion is being used for political gain. Wasalaam, Shafique Liban People can beleive in what they want. That is the beauty of choice given to us by God. However, there is only one truth, God's Truth. kelly1966 I see you never came back with anything from the Bible proving your so called facts..............I felt that you were trying to make a point about something, although I don't know where you got your information. All I have to say is that no one religion is any better than any other. It is our choice what and who we believe and and not to condemn anyone for their beliefs or push another religion in another person's face. Chocoholic Yorky and Kelly, I totally agree with you! In the end it's all about the same thing and we're given the choice. Each individual is entitled to believe whatever they want. And you know we only get one life - maybe! - and should make the most of it, but be kind and thoughtful to our fellow human beings and everythings else we share our humble planet with. I really hate it when people force their opinions on others or refuse to acknowledge that there might be another side to the story. But the underlying themes are still the same. sniper420- sleepless.in.dubai wrote:
You know what boggles the mind? Jews believe in God, Christians believe in the same God, Muslims believe in the same God, and non-religious people (like myself) believe in the SAME God.
Why are there different religions? Why are there differences, dislike and animosity between different religions? Why can't we all just have one religion: The religion of people who believe in God?
I think the world would be a better, more peaceful place if that was the case!
Yeah Jews believe in The One, Christains believe in The One, Muslims believe in The One and yes it's the same God but Lo! we are human beings with envious hearts and minds - yes we all believe in SAME God BUT the paths taken to reach the doors of the Heaven are different! - the rules laid out in Christainism, Judaism and Islam are different and ways to earn the ticket to the Heaven are different. Yes many ppl have died in the crusades trying to prove God is in their side which we see even today. Yes there are ppl like us who live in harmony but Lo! as there goes the saying "bad deeds are always conspicuous than good", a single spark or person is needed to spread the hatred and carry the crusade which innocent ppl like us fall prey. Even today if you read the minds of the "elite ppl" who are ruling us (especially US) in the West are proChristain and Judaism and anti-Islamic and there are clerics in the East demonizing West and talking about the downfall. In Middle East the messengers were sent, In Middle East the 3 religions were forged, In Middle East we meet in the Day of Judgement and the fate decided. fayz- kanelli wrote:
Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now?
I'm studying it now, I'm having difficulty with it but like anything you can learn it just time, dedication and practice. Liban- kelly1966 wrote:
I see you never came back with anything from the Bible proving your so called facts..............I felt that you were trying to make a point about something, although I don't know where you got your information.
All I have to say is that no one religion is any better than any other. It is our choice what and who we believe and and not to condemn anyone for their beliefs or push another religion in another person's face.
1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly. :cry:
2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face". Liban- fayz wrote:
- kanelli wrote:
Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now?
I'm studying it now, I'm having difficulty with it but like anything you can learn it just time, dedication and practice. - kanelli wrote:
Admitatly, fayz, it is harder to learn than English. Kinda like learning French, 'cause that too is a hard language... kanelli I think Russian and Finnish are very difficult, although it helps that words are spelled exactly how they are pronounced. I hope to start some Arabic classes within the next few months. Liban- kanelli wrote:
I think Russian and Finnish are very difficult, although it helps that words are spelled exactly how they are pronounced. I hope to start some Arabic classes within the next few months.
Kewl :) kelly1966 1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly. :cry:
2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face"
Listen, from now on you should practice what you preach and stop pushing what you believe!!!!! in other peoples faces.....those "so called" facts are your beliefs not mine, and I'm offended by you saying that the original Bible doesn't exist, and Jesus was never crucified. I have respected and listened to what you had to say about your religion and have never once tried to correct or change your opinion regarding the Muslim beliefs to you and I'd appreciate the same in return. Liban Its a fact that the original bible no longer exists. It was burned and destroyed and scattered long before the current King James version came into being. I am not slamming anything or anyone at all!!! Its simply a fact. Read it up... :) kelly1966 There are no facts in the Bible saying that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, and that they never ate pork, and that he is not the "Son of God". That is what Christians believe. You were stating facts from the Quran like I said which is what you believe in not me, and as I said earlier, I don't appreciate you claiming that what you believe in is right and the Christian religion is wrong. I'm not going to continue arguing with you over this anymore as you only see what you believe in as being correct. You must remember that there is more than one religion in this world and you're not always right although you come across like you think you are. Enough said! arniegang- Liban wrote:
Its a fact that the original bible no longer exists. It was burned and destroyed and scattered long before the current King James version came into being.
I am not slamming anything or anyone at all!!! Its simply a fact. Read it up... :)
I think you may actually be incorrect on the original bible issue as well. I am sure i will be corrected if i am wrong, but the "dead sea scrolls" are part of the original bible text. shafique I probably think this thread is now off topic and straying into a comparitive religous territory! Arniegang - a good website (a Christian website) that deals with the Bible and comments on the origins and various texts is - there you can see what Christians themselves say about their holy book. The Dead Sea Scrolls don't actually contain extant (complete) texts of any of the books in the Bible - but do contain contemporary records from the time of Jesus. Interestingly, none talk of the doctrine of Christianity that Jesus was Son of God and came to die on the cross. The "Bible", as we know it, was only combined into a book form at the Council of Nicea at which time there were 100s of gospels in existence. The Council decided which ones would form the true Bible and which gospels would not. Christians will argue that the Council merely codified what the Christians already believed. Christians teach that the earliest gospel was written some 60 years after Jesus' ministry in Palestine and 3 of the authors had never met Jesus. If you open up any Bible and look at the last verses of Mark's Gospel, you will see the commentary that says that these verses were later additions... one of many that Christians agree are in the Bible. What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected. Cheers, Shafique yorky500 Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES! There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today. arniegang- yorky500 wrote:
Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES!
There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today.
Good point Yorky.
......... thanks Shaf - great website HP what about the Gay marriage ,is it mentioned in Bible ? if not then why churchs allow it ? sniper420- kelly1966 wrote:
1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly. :cry:
2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face"
Listen, from now on you should practice what you preach and stop pushing what you believe!!!!! in other peoples faces.....those "so called" facts are your beliefs not mine, and I'm offended by you saying that the original Bible doesn't exist, and Jesus was never crucified. I have respected and listened to what you had to say about your religion and have never once tried to correct or change your opinion regarding the Muslim beliefs to you and I'd appreciate the same in return.
Well Liban is right kelly. the original Bible doesnt really exist. If you see the Bible they got from Ethopia (original followers of Christianity migrated to Africa along with the tablet containing "TEN Commandments") they are numerous diffrences. I am really surprised that you arent aware. U can get loads of sources in library and internet. sniper420- yorky500 wrote:
Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES!
There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today.
Alrite Yorky, u are starting another controversial topic- all the three major monotheist religions deny the so called evolution. Take for example if we evolved from apes y ddint other apes evolve? Why is HP still an ape? :lol: sniper420- shafique wrote:
I probably think this thread is now off topic and straying into a comparitive religous territory!
Arniegang - a good website (a Christian website) that deals with the Bible and comments on the origins and various texts is - there you can see what Christians themselves say about their holy book.
The Dead Sea Scrolls don't actually contain extant (complete) texts of any of the books in the Bible - but do contain contemporary records from the time of Jesus. Interestingly, none talk of the doctrine of Christianity that Jesus was Son of God and came to die on the cross.
The "Bible", as we know it, was only combined into a book form at the Council of Nicea at which time there were 100s of gospels in existence. The Council decided which ones would form the true Bible and which gospels would not. Christians will argue that the Council merely codified what the Christians already believed.
Christians teach that the earliest gospel was written some 60 years after Jesus' ministry in Palestine and 3 of the authors had never met Jesus. If you open up any Bible and look at the last verses of Mark's Gospel, you will see the commentary that says that these verses were later additions... one of many that Christians agree are in the Bible.
What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.
Cheers,
Shafique
Good and brief sources Shaf! Well I am amazed many Christians believe that Bible is original! Well there are numerous books and controversies saying the Bible has been changed example the best seller book - Da Vinci Code claims Jesus did marry Mary Magdelane and Paul disliked her so he didnt include her in the Gospels. And numerous Gospels came up after the death of Jesus which had numerous differences. Quran states ppl who changed the books of God -Torah and Bible were done by ppl of power -Kings and priests to thier advantages and they will be severely dealt with... I am sure they are having good time now in messing up with the message of God. wolfsievers The church does not allow gay marriages the government allows gay marriages and sodom and gommorah will give you an example of why God says that it is a sin for a man to sleep with another man or a woman to sleep with another woman. Man was created t procreate. kelly1966- shafique wrote:
What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.
Yes I am aware that the original Bible was destroyed, I am not disputing this, but the words were never destroyed. The disciples brought it forth to their followers.
Maybe Liban should take heed as to the what Shafique has just said. She hit the nail right on the head......the above quote is exactly what he is trying to do. He should be more careful as to his so called beliefs and facts. I'm not trying to start something here with him, but he needs to have some respect for what other people believe in and realize that what he says regarding the Bible and Jesus etc, really affects people who truly believe this, and that he is not ALWAYS right like he thinks he is.
Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government. wolfsievers Shafique vs liban well the mentality should be obvious, apparently she is very well versed in what she is saying and is quite well read, deserves to be commended as such. Well done!! Now teach your "brother" liban how to get a point across to other religions without appearing to be illiterate and not well versed in such matters. HP Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see : who is true: what u say people ? wolfsievers LOL emadullah- HP wrote:
Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see
: who is true:
what u say people ?
Dont make fun of religion :oops: emadullah- shafique wrote:
The Quran says that Islam is the final religion and no new religion is required.
If you go to the tread 'Tragedy in Mecca' you will find I have explained the Islamic stance vis-a-vis earlier religions (that they are all valid, but were limited in time and space. All these religions state that a new reformer and new law was to come in future. Islam makes the claim of being the fulfilment of all these promises.)
Take care.
Wasalaam,
Shafique
i think u did not read my full message....i asked whether every prophets or messenger has come with different different religion ? ex. Jesus (PBUH) has brought Christianity as religion or islam ? Moos (PBUH) brought ?Jewism as religion or islam ? wolfsievers How dare you chastise me for making fun of religion - I was laughing at the way the former text was worded not intended to laugh at religion - If you read it that way then that is your problem. Read before thou openest thy mouth. emadullah- wolfsievers wrote:
How dare you chastise me for making fun of religion - I was laughing at the way the former text was worded not intended to laugh at religion -
If you read it that way then that is your problem.
Read before thou openest thy mouth.
i think u are not reading well...to who i said my words ? its pointing to u or HP ? Liban- kelly1966 wrote:
There are no facts in the Bible saying that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, and that they never ate pork, and that he is not the "Son of God". That is what Christians believe.
You were stating facts from the Quran like I said which is what you believe in not me, and as I said earlier, I don't appreciate you claiming that what you believe in is right and the Christian religion is wrong.
I'm not going to continue arguing with you over this anymore as you only see what you believe in as being correct. You must remember that there is more than one religion in this world and you're not always right although you come across like you think you are. Enough said!
Fine, don't research the facts that are out there.... Your loss. 8) Liban- kelly1966 wrote:
Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government.
I beg to differ on that. Yes, in Catholisicm and mainstream Orthodoxy and Protestanism you are correct.
But more and more "subbranches" (not sure what they are called, sorry) allow for gay priest and unions of gays. Liban- HP wrote:
Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see
: who is true:
what u say people ?
I will just want to add HP, that if you were a true Muslim (which obviously you are not), you would know that the Quran will not save me in this case.
1) The Quran is the Words of God. Not God Himself.
2) Putting faith in the Quran as an object of protection rather than using it as the Book of God carrying His Words and Commandments which are to be obeyed, is idolatory.
3) Reckless acts leading to your death or simply self-pain is against Islam so God ain;'t gonna help you if you sin this way either buddy 8) emadullah- kelly1966 wrote:
- shafique wrote:
What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.
Yes I am aware that the original Bible was destroyed, I am not disputing this, but the words were never destroyed. The disciples brought it forth to their followers.
Maybe Liban should take heed as to the what Shafique has just said. She hit the nail right on the head......the above quote is exactly what he is trying to do. He should be more careful as to his so called beliefs and facts. I'm not trying to start something here with him, but he needs to have some respect for what other people believe in and realize that what he says regarding the Bible and Jesus etc, really affects people who truly believe this, and that he is not ALWAYS right like he thinks he is.
Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government. - shafique wrote:
OK if u belive that original bible is destroyed but the words are not then i m asking u one question....
do u accept and belive that Jesus (PBUH) is son of GOD ?
if he is son of God then how God can allow his son to be died ? God has no birth and no death...how the son of God can die ? God cannot eat or sleep ...how the son of God can eat and sleep ? Chocoholic Ah but you forget that Jesus was resurrected! The son of God made the ultimate sacrifice, but asked god to forgive those who persucuted and crucified him for their actions. God sent Jesus - his son - as the ultimate gift to mankind to teach people the error of their ways and show them how to live good and proper lives. Jews and Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God, but a prophet. One fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity is that muslims follow more of an honour system for living their lives, whereas I think Christianity looks more at being forgiven for ones sins, should you have committed any throughout your life. Anyway I'm agnostic so all this doesn't mean much to me. Liban- Chocoholic wrote:
Ah but you forget that Jesus was resurrected! The son of God made the ultimate sacrifice, but asked god to forgive those who persucuted and crucified him for their actions. God sent Jesus - his son - as the ultimate gift to mankind to teach people the error of their ways and show them how to live good and proper lives.
Jews and Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God, but a prophet.
One fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity is that muslims follow more of an honour system for living their lives, whereas I think Christianity looks more at being forgiven for ones sins, should you have committed any throughout your life.
Anyway I'm agnostic so all this doesn't mean much to me.
Resurrection didn't happen. Sorry fellows. But Islam corrects this myth.
Of course, you can beleive what you want. I beleive in God's Teachings as per the Quran and thats what I base things on...
No flame just my beleif. :) emadullah- Liban wrote:
- HP wrote:
Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see
: who is true:
what u say people ?
I will just want to add HP, that if you were a true Muslim (which obviously you are not), you would know that the Quran will not save me in this case.
1) The Quran is the Words of God. Not God Himself.
2) Putting faith in the Quran as an object of protection rather than using it as the Book of God carrying His Words and Commandments which are to be obeyed, is idolatory.
3) Reckless acts leading to your death or simply self-pain is against Islam so God ain;'t gonna help you if you sin this way either buddy 8) - HP wrote:
u are rite...
if u are a true muslim (100% muslim) then u wil be saved.....just remember the past ...prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) [prophet Abraham (PBUH)]....he was saved that time...
if u follow the exact path of islam then Al mighty wil surely save u.
our duty is to tell the truth to non-muslims...to follow islam belive in islam is not our part...just remember the past...the uncle of final Prophet Muhammed (SAW).. uncle was a good person...pure soul...he help Muhammed (SAW) so many times....but God did not show him the right path of islam or the path of heaven...he will be in the hell....Muhammed (SAW) tried his level best for his uncle...but he did not accepted islam...
so, he will be in the parmanent hell....but with least punishment...a pair of shoes wil be worn to him but u know the effect of that shoe..how effective and harmful it will be......
we muslim must thank to Al mighty who has given a chance to enter into heaven...we should not proud but we should thank to Allah. and we do in the prayers.......
So dont force non-muslims to accept islam....muslims duty is to remind and tell the truth thats all...honestly i feel sad when i see non-muslim people...i m worried about them how they will suffer permanent hell....it is not a small thing.....
all non muslims will be in the hell along with the idol to whome they were worshiping in this world.. Chocoholic Oh please spare your pity! There is no one true path to heaven, if indeed heaven exists. What you've just said I find quite insulting to people of other religions. So if they spend all their lives living by their religion, just because it's not yours, then they're denied access to the pearly gates? Answer me this, suppose you spend all your life living as per any one religion, then you die, and there's nothing - nothing at all? As I said before there have been so many, so called prophets, holy books etc, what would you do if another 'prophet' was sent tomorrow, with new teachings, saying nope sorry Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc are not the way to go, this is what God says - then what would you do? And never count these things out, it's all perfectly feasible. But hey what do I know. emadullah- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please spare your pity! There is no one true path to heaven, if indeed heaven exists.
What you've just said I find quite insulting to people of other religions. So if they spend all their lives living by their religion, just because it's not yours, then they're denied access to the pearly gates?
Answer me this, suppose you spend all your life living as per any one religion, then you die, and there's nothing - nothing at all?
Sorry to say NO ..if u are non-muslim then u cant reach to heaven....why God will punish the uncle of final prophet then ? he was good man...pure soul but he will be in the hell ....a parmanent hell...
IT IS THE FACT AND TRUTH...IF I DIE OR U KILL ME THEN THIS TRUTH CANT BE CHANGED...
i can say if u are a ture beliver of other religion ..it means u are a good driver but dont have licence of driving (or to enter heaven) and soon ...when u will be caught (died) u will be punished...its the simple example. wolfsievers I heard that muslim women , a majority of them, were smarter than their male counterparts, Shafique you do your people justice, and make some of these blundering men on this forum look like unknowing children. God bless you. Where we end up after our life is not for you to judge but for God to dictate. Thank God for a heart that feels sad for the man who does not know what actually comes out of his mouth. Chocoholic- emadullah wrote:
- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please spare your pity! There is no one true path to heaven, if indeed heaven exists.
What you've just said I find quite insulting to people of other religions. So if they spend all their lives living by their religion, just because it's not yours, then they're denied access to the pearly gates?
Answer me this, suppose you spend all your life living as per any one religion, then you die, and there's nothing - nothing at all?
Sorry to say NO ..if u are non-muslim then u cant reach to heaven....why God will punish the uncle of final prophet then ? he was good man...pure soul but he will be in the hell ....a parmanent hell...
IT IS THE FACT AND TRUTH...IF I DIE OR U KILL ME THEN THIS TRUTH CANT BE CHANGED...
i can say if u are a ture beliver of other religion ..it means u are a good driver but dont have licence of driving (or to enter heaven) and soon ...when u will be caught (died) u will be punished...its the simple example. - Chocoholic wrote:
Right then, so every other religion is wrong then? And I thought Islam was supposed to teach you tolerance, and you still didn't answer the question! Suppose Islam becomes the defunct religion tomorrow, what would you do then?
Yours is not to judge, and it's not for you to say what God, if there is one would do. All these stories, all these books are still only written by men, and man is flawed.
You just proved the point of the thread, that many arab muslims think they're better than everyone else - well done!
There is NO definate TRUTH, so far none of this stuff has been proved beyond any doubt to be true or false, why do you think so many people have different views? emadullah- Chocoholic wrote:
- emadullah wrote:
- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please spare your pity! There is no one true path to heaven, if indeed heaven exists.
What you've just said I find quite insulting to people of other religions. So if they spend all their lives living by their religion, just because it's not yours, then they're denied access to the pearly gates?
Answer me this, suppose you spend all your life living as per any one religion, then you die, and there's nothing - nothing at all?
Sorry to say NO ..if u are non-muslim then u cant reach to heaven....why God will punish the uncle of final prophet then ? he was good man...pure soul but he will be in the hell ....a parmanent hell...
IT IS THE FACT AND TRUTH...IF I DIE OR U KILL ME THEN THIS TRUTH CANT BE CHANGED...
i can say if u are a ture beliver of other religion ..it means u are a good driver but dont have licence of driving (or to enter heaven) and soon ...when u will be caught (died) u will be punished...its the simple example. - Chocoholic wrote:
Right then, so every other religion is wrong then? And I thought Islam was supposed to teach you tolerance, and you still didn't answer the question! Suppose Islam becomes the defunct religion tomorrow, what would you do then?
Yours is not to judge, and it's not for you to say what God, if there is one would do. All these stories, all these books are still only written by men, and man is flawed.
You just proved the point of the thread, that many arab muslims think they're better than everyone else - well done!
There is NO definate TRUTH, so far none of this stuff has been proved beyond any doubt to be true or false, why do you think so many people have different views? - emadullah wrote:
i think ur knowledge is too weak....before Prophet Jesus (PBUH) every one has to follow Prophet Moosa (PBUH) teaching ...ofcourse the theam to obey God was same as islma teaches us...after moosa everyone has to follow Propeht Jesus (PBUH) and after Jesus (PBUH) every one has to follow Final Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)...and for u kind info after Muhammed (PBUH) no any messenger or prophet will come....
now u got the point ? every muslims have to believe and respect all messengers/prophets....
Quran words are still unchaged and its challenge by the God that this book will be saved/unchaged till the end of this universe....when the time of end will come then the words of Quraan wil be erased by God.....ppl will not see any words in the book.....God will not do so with all other 3 holy books becoz they have been changed by man........and the kabatullah (the stone u see in the makka) will be taken back and will be palced in the heaven......
now u will say...u will not belive..but dont worry u will soon belive on it...coz we muslim belive wat is hidden and wat we canot see..but will belive when it will heppen...then u wil try to run after the truth...but sorry to say....u cannot accept islam when u are near to death...that is not acceptable...
i tel u honestly...when u will be just 5 second far from death u wil see and u wil belive wat i m saying rite now....u will see ur place in the hell too just few second b4 ur death..(if u are non-muslim).....i m sorry to say i dont proud i muslim but i thanks to my Al mighty who has given me chance to enter in the heaven...
but i m not sure i will directly go to heaven or first i will suffer in the hell...coz if i have a minor bad deed then first i will suffer in the hell..then only i will be able to enter in the heaven...but non-muslim will be permanent in the hell......dont belive but u wil belive it later on...
--------------------------
023.099 (In Falsehood will they be) Until, when death comes to one of them, he says:
"O my Lord! send me back (to life),-
023.100 "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no
means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are
raised up.
023.101 Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships
between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!
023.102 Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain
salvation:
023.103 But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in
Hell will they abide.
023.104 The Fire will burn their faces, and they will therein grin, with their lips
displaced.
-----------------------------
emadullah one more thing i missed here is....TRUTH IS ALWAYS HARSH TO LISTEN OR ACCEPT...BUT THE TRUTH WILL BE ALWAYS TRUTH.... i m not saying that all other religions are rong but rite for good living in this world but that wil not help to enter in the heaven.... ONLY ISLAM IS THE ACCEPTABLE TO GOD.. to reach heaven...its the word of God not mine... u know one more thing ? the end is soon...final messenger has clearly said...u can see his words are coming true now a days... WHEN THE ARAB PPLS USE TO SPEND MONEY ON STONE THEN THE END IS SOON...IT IS THE ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS OF THE END OF THE UNIVERSE.... similar to this only prophet Muhammed(PBUH) has said ... u see todays arab ppls they use their money for building and wasting money on stones...am i rite ? i m not saying that u are rong but u are miss guided.... there are so many pure soul in other religions but there example is like they are a good driver but no license to drive....the schools are good and teaching well...but that schools are not approved/authorised...its just a simple example... now u are saying all books are ritten by man..but when u wil learn arabic and will master in arabic then read the quraan...u will change this opinion for quraan...i challenge u... sniper420- wolfsievers wrote:
I heard that muslim women , a majority of them, were smarter than their male counterparts, Shafique you do your people justice, and make some of these blundering men on this forum look like unknowing children. God bless you.
Where we end up after our life is not for you to judge but for God to dictate. Thank God for a heart that feels sad for the man who does not know what actually comes out of his mouth.
Well isnt Shafique a male? Mistake one. Mistake 2-Would u please provide a reference for claiming "Muslim women, a majority of them, were smarter than their male counterparts!" and yes including u! :lol: I bet by Jove u have none! I mean the statement is so dumb and biased.Mistake 3- Arent u the same person bashing Liban by claiming things which he didnt provide references? wolfsievers Not were smarter, but are smarter. And I will have to give it to you as you were smart to move to Canada!! Talk about biased, well if you go back over the posts in this forum you will see who is exactly biased in here. What you say is a joke! Liban- wolfsievers wrote:
Not were smarter, but are smarter. And I will have to give it to you as you were smart to move to Canada!! Talk about biased, well if you go back over the posts in this forum you will see who is exactly biased in here. What you say is a joke!
If you think that moving to Canada and leaving the UAE is better, than please leave this country. We don;t want you here. shafique I am a male wolfseivers.. but thanks for the compliment anyway. There are many noble women in the history of Islam, but I am not sure that numerically there are more wise women than men. However, it is true that pre-Islam the Arabs were a barbaric race (the Quran acknowledges this). It appears to me that some of these traits are making a return today - but this will be in defiance of the teachings of Islam. On the point whether non-muslims will make it to heaven, I have to disagree with some of the views given above. My reading of Islam is that all people are at the mercy of God on the day of Judgement. There are a few types of people who we know are guaranteed heaven (for example all children - of any denomination - who die as children go to heaven according to the prophet of Islam). No where in the Quran is anyone guaranteed paradise for following any religion - you are judged on your merit. I think there is a little too much heat in this thread at the moment and I would like to quote from the Quran a few verses for the Muslims to ponder over and to make non-Muslims aware of what we believe God has ordered us to do: Ch2v62 "Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." Thus, if you believe in God and the day of reckoning and do good deeds - you will go to heaven - regardless of what religion you follow, according to this verse (in my opinion). Ch6 v 108 "And abuse not those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they, out of spite, abuse Allah in their ignorance. Thus unto every people have We caused their doings to seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return; and He will inform them of what they used to do." Allah tells us here to not even abuse idols that idol worshippers worship - therefore we should not even approach ridicule of any persons beliefs. Goodly argument should be used as per the next verse.. Ch 16.v125 "Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation and argue with them in a way that is best. Surely, thy Lord knows best who has strayed from His way; and also knows those who are rightly guided." Above all, if one is sincere in spreading understanding of their beliefs and what they hold to be true, the first instinct is to pray for the other person - not to engage in an ego enhancing slanging match to try and beat the other person's point of view and arguments (something I have been guilty of doing!) The success of Islam as a world religion has always been rooted in the beauties of its teachings and the loving attitude of its adherents. This is how Islam spread - conquests may have gained lands, but they did not cause the religion to enter peoples hearts (and they never can). Wasalaam (peace) Shafique arniegang Excellent posting Shaf as always. To those who post with passion: would do well to take heed from Shaf's postings. There are ways of putting your point of view without being rude and offensive, and his writings here is a good example of HOW to put your point of view / opinion across. HP- Quote:
- As I said before there have been so many, so called prophets, holy books etc, what would you do if another 'prophet' was sent tomorrow, with new teachings, saying nope sorry Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc are not the way to go, this is what God says - then what would you do?
Aunti Choco ,
Bring some respect for prophets and stop calling them " so-called". When i said pious cow to british Queen ,then one of your country man raised his eyes brows.
According to Quaran " There will be no prophet anymore and muhammad (PBUM) was the last prophet of God" It was mentioned in other God’s books about the appearances of one more prophet and all the symptoms were in Muhammad (PBUM).
But we also believe that Jesus will come again in this world and represent Islam and muslims will be in all over the world and then we ll be having day of Judgment. HP- Quote:
- Ch2v62
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
Thus, if you believe in God and the day of reckoning and do good deeds - you will go to heaven - regardless of what religion you follow, according to this verse (in my opinion).
as i dont have quaran with me , i wouldnt be able comment on this ,but if anyone of you check it out ? i think its nice point and i never checked it before . Chocoholic What can I say, I'm a sceptic, and until someone provides me with hardcore undisputable evidence, then that's the way I'll always think. This stuff isn't my bag baby, each to his own. emadullah- shafique wrote:
Ch2v62
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
Thus, if you believe in God and the day of reckoning and do good deeds - you will go to heaven - regardless of what religion you follow, according to this verse (in my opinion).
Ch6 v 108
"And abuse not those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they, out of spite, abuse Allah in their ignorance. Thus unto every people have We caused their doings to seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return; and He will inform them of what they used to do."
Allah tells us here to not even abuse idols that idol worshippers worship - therefore we should not even approach ridicule of any persons beliefs. Goodly argument should be used as per the next verse..
Ch 16.v125
"Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation and argue with them in a way that is best. Surely, thy Lord knows best who has strayed from His way; and also knows those who are rightly guided."
Above all, if one is sincere in spreading understanding of their beliefs and what they hold to be true, the first instinct is to pray for the other person - not to engage in an ego enhancing slanging match to try and beat the other person's point of view and arguments (something I have been guilty of doing!)
Ch2v62
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
Ch3
v83. Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah.-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
v84. Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets(Muhammed), from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
Ch017.v039 These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to
thee. Take not, with God, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into
Hell, blameworthy and rejected. arniegang HP
i am aassuming you are referring to Chocs comment thus:
As I said before there have been so many, so called prophets, holy books etc,
Gramatically, the way Choc has written this, is not written in a context of "disrespect", but rather in a blase, indifferent, or doubtful way.
And as for your point regarding the use of the word "cow", i like many others here know that the cow is a sacred animal. However to us it isnt. It is used generally in the UK, as a form of disrespect when referring too, or talking to a female.
Likewise, it is the reason why the majority of us would not dream of mentioning "pigs". We would consider it disrespectful to refer to someone as "a pig", and as such we dont, because we know it would be deemed highly offensive. HP- Quote:
- Gramatically, the way Choc has written this, is not written in a context of "disrespect", but rather in a blase, indifferent, or doubtful way.
the same way ,i didnt mean to disrespect your so called queen ,i just cited an example . It is up to u to arrive on conclusion of your own choice.
i didnt know that pig ws pious animal of west :wink: kelly1966- Liban wrote:
- wolfsievers wrote:
Not were smarter, but are smarter. And I will have to give it to you as you were smart to move to Canada!! Talk about biased, well if you go back over the posts in this forum you will see who is exactly biased in here. What you say is a joke!
If you think that moving to Canada and leaving the UAE is better, than please leave this country. We don;t want you here. - wolfsievers wrote:
I have to laugh at you Liban......are you going to be the new ruler of Dubai........you sure act like you own the place since you've been there. I really think you need an attitude adjustment, I sure read you wrong when I first met you.
Why do you hold a Canadian passport then? Probably the only country that would take your sorry ass. Chocoholic Ch2v62 "Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." Ahhhh so this can be interpreted that other religions are accepted and those of other religions can enter heaven, so long as they live their lives according to God, not necessarily just Islam. emadullah- Chocoholic wrote:
Ch2v62
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
Ahhhh so this can be interpreted that other religions are accepted and those of other religions can enter heaven, so long as they live their lives according to God, not necessarily just Islam.
Here the followers are refered to those who were beliving in Christianity before islam and the jews who were beliving b4 christianity...
Do u belive in Allah and worship according to his will ? do u belive in last day?
Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God ....that is rong according to allah....
Ch9 v30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Ch3 V102. O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.
v85. If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). HP- Chocoholic wrote:
Ch2v62
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians (everyone else) - whichever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
Ahhhh so this can be interpreted that other religions are accepted and those of other religions can enter heaven, so long as they live their lives according to God, not necessarily just Islam.
I didnt check it wid Quaran but one must read " Believe" (believer) in above text. I assume believer means
" anybody could be in Paradise as long as they were doing "God's Will" and not worshipping something other than Almighty God" .
The statement, "None shall enter the Paradise except Muslims" is true, only if you understand it in the above context. In other words muslims are sincere in their worship to Him and only to Him without any partners.
The heart is a precious comodity to Allah and He is the Judge of the hearts. We can only say what types of beliefs and actions would bring a person closer to either place.
well if anyone else who can explain " believe " or believer? arniegang- HP wrote:
- Quote:
- Gramatically, the way Choc has written this, is not written in a context of "disrespect", but rather in a blase, indifferent, or doubtful way.
the same way ,i didnt mean to disrespect your so called queen ,i just cited an example . It is up to u to arrive on conclusion of your own choice.
i didnt know that pig ws pious animal of west :wink:
HP
pious (RELIGIOUS)
adjective
strongly believing in religion, and living in a way which shows this belief:
She is a pious follower of the faith, never missing her prayers.
You use many words out of context. Many may be fooled by you on here, but we have a saying in UK.
"you can only fool some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time".
I know you are able to comprehend all what is written here, i believe you are more intellegent than you would like people in here to believe.
I think its best left at that, if you are not able to engage in any form of intellegent converstaion or debate.
Some of us do not suffer fools gladly. HP- Quote:
pious (RELIGIOUS)
adjective
strongly believing in religion, and living in a way which shows this belief:
She is a pious follower of the faith, never missing her prayers.
i am very confuse now , i thought pious mean beautiful . As the definition is changed, tell me who is Pious ? Indian cow or ? sleepless.in.dubai emadullah: I understand you, but there is something you don't understand. In religion, NOTHING is fact, EVERYTHING is faith. What you have is faith, and what Christians and Jews have is faith. Do not be so bigoted to think that it is only the Muslim who will go to heaven. You all believe in and worship the same God. Why would this same God treat you as more special than them? Nothing is fact. It is all a matter of what you believe in. My belief? I have no religion. I believe in God, and I believe in the goodness of soul, which is something I think is common in all religions, and something I think God would be entirely happy to see amongst all humans, of all races and of all religions, not JUST Muslims. Chocoholic- sleepless.in.dubai wrote:
emadullah: I understand you, but there is something you don't understand.
In religion, NOTHING is fact, EVERYTHING is faith.
What you have is faith, and what Christians and Jews have is faith. Do not be so bigoted to think that it is only the Muslim who will go to heaven.
You all believe in and worship the same God. Why would this same God treat you as more special than them?
Nothing is fact. It is all a matter of what you believe in.
My belief? I have no religion. I believe in God, and I believe in the goodness of soul, which is something I think is common in all religions, and something I think God would be entirely happy to see amongst all humans, of all races and of all religions, not JUST Muslims.
Well said Sleepless! I couldn't agree more. HP sleep less in dubai :
u got a good point.
I also used to think we have some big non Muslims names in history , who benefited the society through invention , research or engaging in other activities. For example doctors who save the lives and bring revolution in medicine ,Scientists or mother Teresa ( many others).
Now my question is
"how can God throw them in hell who have dedciated their lives for noble mission" ? arniegang- HP wrote:
- Quote:
pious (RELIGIOUS)
adjective
strongly believing in religion, and living in a way which shows this belief:
She is a pious follower of the faith, never missing her prayers.
i am very confuse now , i thought pious mean beautiful . As the definition is changed, tell me who is Pious ? Indian cow or ?
You are not confused at all HP - Its what you want us to believe :roll: emadullah- sleepless.in.dubai wrote:
emadullah: I understand you, but there is something you don't understand.
In religion, NOTHING is fact, EVERYTHING is faith.
What you have is faith, and what Christians and Jews have is faith. Do not be so bigoted to think that it is only the Muslim who will go to heaven.
You all believe in and worship the same God. Why would this same God treat you as more special than them?
Nothing is fact. It is all a matter of what you believe in.
My belief? I have no religion. I believe in God, and I believe in the goodness of soul, which is something I think is common in all religions, and something I think God would be entirely happy to see amongst all humans, of all races and of all religions, not JUST Muslims.
dont worry my dear u will believe everything soon after death...i dont force anyone to belive wat i given the reference....
u have same mentality as that of my christian friend...i asked him 'if Jesus Christ (PBUH) comes and says Mr XX u are not muslim u have to follow islam to reach heaven what u would do then' ? he answered me " no i will no change to islam..i m a good person god wil not punish me..."
he is waiting for god to come and say MR XX come to islam to reach heaven.....God has sent his book to follow and still he is waiting for God to come and meet in person ???
i think u have a same answer...am i rite ? i m sorry to say my dear u will loose evrything... emadullah- HP wrote:
sleep less in dubai :
u got a good point.
I also used to think we have some big non Muslims names in history , who benefited the society through invention , research or engaging in other activities. For example doctors who save the lives and bring revolution in medicine ,Scientists or mother Teresa ( many others).
Now my question is
"how can God throw them in hell who have dedciated their lives for noble mission" ?
who is most important ? a person who has helped final messenger ...help in many times in many ways.....or the one who has dedicated his life for noble mission ?
if God has dicided to put messenger uncle in the hell who helped his beloved messenger....
now the answer is wit u about all other pure souls... arniegang [quote="emadullah
dont worry my dear u will believe everything soon after death...i dont force anyone to belive wat i given the reference....
u have same mentality as that of my christian friend...i asked him 'if Jesus Christ (PBUH) comes and says Mr XX u are not muslim u have to follow islam to reach heaven what u would do then' ? he answered me " no i will no change to islam..i m a good person god wil not punish me..."
he is waiting for god to come and say MR XX come to islam to reach heaven.....God has sent his book to follow and still he is waiting for God to come and meet in person ???
i think u have a same answer...am i rite ? i m sorry to say my dear u will loose evrything... - castellano wrote:
Why are you sorry?, we all have different beliefs, some of us believe in an afterlife, some of us dont, its that simple.
Personally, i totally agree with sleepless - Maybe its just best, to agree to disagree. Chocoholic
- arniegang wrote:
[quote="emadullah
dont worry my dear u will believe everything soon after death...i dont force anyone to belive wat i given the reference....
u have same mentality as that of my christian friend...i asked him 'if Jesus Christ (PBUH) comes and says Mr XX u are not muslim u have to follow islam to reach heaven what u would do then' ? he answered me " no i will no change to islam..i m a good person god wil not punish me..."
he is waiting for god to come and say MR XX come to islam to reach heaven.....God has sent his book to follow and still he is waiting for God to come and meet in person ???
i think u have a same answer...am i rite ? i m sorry to say my dear u will loose evrything...
Why are you sorry?, we all have different beliefs, some of us believe in an afterlife, some of us dont, its that simple.
Personally, i totally agree with sleepless - Maybe its just best, to agree to disagree.
Probably right my friends as there's some people who're just stuck in a mental hiccup. HP
- Quote:
- who is most important ? a person who has helped final messenger ...help in many times in many ways.....or the one who has dedicated his life for noble mission ?
The person who has dedicated his life for noble mission. just a little example "If we dont have doctors today then what will happen? " or how many non muslims people saved the lives of people who were under the debris after the earth quake in Pak ,its was non muslims who used the latest machines to detect the people's breath .
u can find 100 of examples, where contribution of non-muslims toward society is 101 % better than muslims. shafique Islam teaches that each person will be judged by Allah alone on the day of Judgement. Not all muslims will be going to heaven. Not all non-Muslims will be going to straight to hell. No where in the Quran does it say that Allah will bar non-Muslims from Heaven. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion (La Ikra fi Deen is what Allah says). Islam also teaches that Muslims must protect the religious freedom of others - even to the point of waging war against those who do wrong C22v40 "...And if Allah had not repelled some people by means of others, cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft remembered, would surely have been destroyed. And Allah will, surely, help him who helps Him. Allah is, indeed, Powerful, Mighty" Note the order in which the places of worship are mentioned - cloisters (i.e. monasteries and convents), churches and synagogues - then Muslim places of worship. If one looks at the areas where Muslims were in power in the early days of Islam, you will find complete religious tolerance and no compulsion whatsoever. People were free to believe what they wanted to believe and discussions were respectful. What Islam abhors though is idol worship, and even there Islam does not allow Muslims to ridicule the idols of idol worshippers (see quote in my previous submission). I see absolutely no point in trying to ram one's own set of beliefs down another person's throat. It serves only to cause ill-will and does not change anyone's opinion. I personally don't enjoy hitting my head against a wall :) Sleepless - your post was excellent and actually encapsulates what Islam teaches (that every soul is good - all are born pure and there are good and evil tendencies in everyone. Ultimately we are judged on what we do and there is only one judge.) To the muslims, don't get me wrong - the Quran does say that Islam is the final religion and will be the only religion accepted by Allah - but it also specifies what following Islam actually means in practice. Islam is submission to the will of God to gain His pleasure (and therefore find peace). The first Muslim according to the Quran was Abraham, and one of the wife of Pharaoh is described as a very pious lady who was vouchsafed revelation from Allah. Ask any Imam what the fate of a person who has never heard of Islam, but leads a pious and good life (there are many parts of the world or even this country, the UK, where the message of Islam hasn't really been preached). If a person, through no fault of their own, has not been given the chance to accept or reject Islam, but leads an exemplary life - will that person automatically go to Hell? If you say 'yes', then I humbly ask for a reference (or even an Imam who believes this). Anyway, I will resist saying anything else in this thread now. Wasalaam, Shafique sleepless.in.dubai Shafique, WELL SAID wolfsievers Liban I said the only thing you did that was smart was move to Canada because I knew that you held a Canadian passport for if you were still in Lebanon you most likely would not be talking on this forum - you are such a joke. With that Canadian passport it enabled you to get into Dubai and get a job that paid you enough to support your lifestyle. Why a Canadian passport Liban, the USA would not let you in? See Liban I do not live in Dubai, but I am a Canadian. See what happens - religious fanatics like yourself bring out the worse in themselves and you got mad because I thought Shafique was a female and said she was smarter than you, thus proving that you think you are superior to a female. My job is done now, I wanted to see this side of you because I knew it was there and it sure came out. You are apparently grateful for nothing as you are saying go back to Canada, did they treat you that bad Liban? What you need is a humbling experience and with your attitude it is not long in coming your way. Liban
- kelly1966 wrote:
I have to laugh at you Liban......are you going to be the new ruler of Dubai........you sure act like you own the place since you've been there. I really think you need an attitude adjustment, I sure read you wrong when I first met you.
Why do you hold a Canadian passport then? Probably the only country that would take your sorry a#s.
You know, since I know you and your husband, I will stay civil. I will ask you not to insult me again because I really don't want to attack you and get down to your level.
Nerves my dear, nerves... CALM THEM DOWN! :x Liban
- wolfsievers wrote:
Liban I said the only thing you did that was smart was move to Canada because I knew that you held a Canadian passport for if you were still in Lebanon you most likely would not be talking on this forum - you are such a joke. With that Canadian passport it enabled you to get into Dubai and get a job that paid you enough to support your lifestyle. Why a Canadian passport Liban, the USA would not let you in? See Liban I do not live in Dubai, but I am a Canadian. See what happens - religious fanatics like yourself bring out the worse in themselves and you got mad because I thought Shafique was a female and said she was smarter than you, thus proving that you think you are superior to a female. My job is done now, I wanted to see this side of you because I knew it was there and it sure came out. You are apparently grateful for nothing as you are saying go back to Canada, did they treat you that bad Liban? What you need is a humbling experience and with your attitude it is not long in coming your way.
OK.
1) I do have the Lebanese passport and I am proud of Lebanon, one of the best countries in the world.
2) I would get the same salary. I work for locals and my passport had no effect on my salary. I got the job on my merits not nationality.
3) The Canadian passport doesn't help in Dubai. Many people of many countries have it. It is not like a European passport. Nowhere like it.
4) I wouldn't live in the US if I was paid millions. So I don't get your argument.
5) I left Canada because there is more opportunity here.
6) As for my reasons for living in Canada when I did live there, you'd be surprised.
7) I didn't care about Shafique being a female. If you would read some of my other posts genius you would know that women to me are to be put on pedestals. But you can't seem to read well...
Now get off your high horse and don't bother coming to Dubai. Also why are you in this forum?????
Also who is gonna humble me? You??? As far as I care, you need humbling. Mr. I am on Dubai Forums but live far far away.... kelly1966 I'm not insulting you Liban, and you're not getting on my nerves in anyway.....just goes to prove that you always have to be the last one to have a say and you're always right....as for you knowing my husband and I, won't even go there as I could comment on some things but not on here. We both thought you were a nice guy, but I must say, you had us both fooled. LOL you only wish you were at my level...... I'm just tired of you claiming that your beliefs are correct and everyone elses are incorrect......why can't you just accept that there is more than one religion in the world? How would you feel if someone was on here trying to telly ou that Christianity is the only true religion and that others are a scam? I'm sure you would be hurt. Well treat others as you would like to be treated yourself....... And what is this crap now about Canada? What is wrong with you anyway? Liban
- kelly1966 wrote:
I'm not insulting you Liban, and you're not getting on my nerves in anyway.....just goes to prove that you always have to be the last one to have a say and you're always right....as for you knowing my husband and I, won't even go there as I could comment on some things but not on here. We both thought you were a nice guy, but I must say, you had us both fooled.
LOL you only wish you were at my level......
I'm just tired of you claiming that your beliefs are correct and everyone elses are incorrect......why can't you just accept that there is more than one religion in the world? How would you feel if someone was on here trying to telly ou that Christianity is the only true religion and that others are a scam? I'm sure you would be hurt. Well treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.......
And what is this crap now about Canada? What is wrong with you anyway?
1) Thats what PMs are for... C'mon tell me what you think that way... Lets see what you have to say.
2) Heh. Try as I may, I can't get low enough... :P
3) I never said that there are no other religions. Only that there is the right path to God and I follow the Quran's path which to me is the right path.
4) Crap about Canada? What crap? I like it for the most part. The weather blows chunks though :)
5) Problem? Hmmm... Could ask you the same. kelly1966 Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Liban
- kelly1966 wrote:
Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats nice.... Well I thought you might have more sense and speak your mind to me in a PM rather than say "I am not talking to you anymore" booo hoo...
And fill your boots? We don't need those in Dubai Einstein... :lol: HP It is nice to see that people hate someone else too ,otherwise i used to think that i am the only one ........Liban keep up the good work :). kelly1966 I really must commend you since you have returned HP, keep up the good work, you are behaving yourself lol.....now maybe someone else can take lessons from you. arniegang Kelly Respect to you girl - nice one HP
- kelly1966 wrote:
Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liban was saying that u were dying to come in Dubai but your husband was not as qualified as Liban ws and he couldt manage to find any place in dubai .........
is it true ? :roll: kelly1966 Thank you Arnie.....that really meant alot after all this crap I've been putting up with from Liban.......I really think that someone should do something about him.....there's no need of him going on the way he does....have you read his posts? Alot of people have left this forum because of him and it's a shame because I have met alot of really good friends on here and people can obtain alot of useful information on here as well, as there are alot of really well spoken, knowledgeable people here. Unfortunately, they don't want to read this crap. kelly1966
- HP wrote:
- kelly1966 wrote:
Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liban was saying that u were dying to come in Dubai but your husband was not as qualified as Liban ws and he couldt manage to find any place in dubai .........
is it true ? :roll: - kelly1966 wrote:
What do you think? HP
- kelly1966 wrote:
Thank you Arnie.....that really meant alot after all this crap I've been putting up with from Liban.......I really think that someone should do something about him.....there's no need of him going on the way he does....have you read his posts? Alot of people have left this forum because of him and it's a shame because I have met alot of really good friends on here and people can obtain alot of useful information on here as well, as there are alot of really well spoken, knowledgeable people here. Unfortunately, they don't want to read this crap.
kelly 1966 , his name is Taliban not Liban ,jst add " Ta "= Ta...Liban ... :wink: HP
- Quote:
- What do you think?
why do u care about the remarks of Liban ,he is not the person who decides who ll go in hell and who not. If it is up to him ,i am the first person to go in hell.
so just relax and enjoy your stay here instead of boiling your blood. kelly1966 Good one HP sniper420
- wolfsievers wrote:
Not were smarter, but are smarter. And I will have to give it to you as you were smart to move to Canada!! Talk about biased, well if you go back over the posts in this forum you will see who is exactly biased in here. What you say is a joke!
Kekeke I guess Liban provided the reply. Am I biased ? I guess so cos I am human and no a bot. Ok Liban this is going out of control, learn to control the wild horse. I guess Shaf is good for that. wolfsievers You know it is one thing to have a discussion about religion and politics, etc. but when one of the moderators intentionally bashes a Canadian for not being as smart and as qualified as him to secure a job is going over the boundaries. He should be removed as a moderator immediately. All I have to say before deleting this forum from my computer forever is I hope one day to meet him in person and believe me I will - I am Kelly's sister and when it comes to bashing my sister's family for no apparent reason then I will step in. You have shown just how wonderful an upbringing you have had (meant to be a joke) and you do your parents proud!! You are a disgrace to your fellow countrymen and for a person of your low upbringing I would be thanking the powers to be for giving me a chance at some kind of existence in this world afforded by the Canadian government. LIBAN MY FINAL WORDS: I said you were smart for going to Canada because the real reason is that if you had stayed in Lebanon the Syrians would have f......ing killed you. Be sure all your posts concerning what you hated in Canada have been copied and will be used for future reference. Enta Hamar sniper420
- wolfsievers wrote:
You know it is one thing to have a discussion about religion and politics, etc. but when one of the moderators intentionally bashes a Canadian for not being as smart and as qualified as him to secure a job is going over the boundaries. He should be removed as a moderator immediately.
All I have to say before deleting this forum from my computer forever is I hope one day to meet him in person and believe me I will - I am Kelly's sister and when it comes to bashing my sister's family for no apparent reason then I will step in. You have shown just how wonderful an upbringing you have had (meant to be a joke) and you do your parents proud!! You are a disgrace to your fellow countrymen and for a person of your low upbringing I would be thanking the powers to be for giving me a chance at some kind of existence in this world afforded by the Canadian government.
LIBAN MY FINAL WORDS:
I said you were smart for going to Canada because the real reason is that if you had stayed in Lebanon the Syrians would have f......ing killed you. Be sure all your posts concerning what you hated in Canada have been copied and will be used for future reference. Enta Hamar
LOL Well Miss Wolf. First this was a general discussion about the religion and ppl are usually optionated when discussing these matters. Some just dont know to express without offending other ppl but some ppl like Shaf are extremely good at replying in cool and freindly manner. This discussion had gone out of topic and turned into some personal bickering. My advice to Liban and wolf is to resolve the matters outside this forum in a friendly way just like Canadians. :D emadullah
- shafique wrote:
Islam teaches that each person will be judged by Allah alone on the day of Judgement.
Not all muslims will be going to heaven. Not all non-Muslims will be going to straight to hell.
No where in the Quran does it say that Allah will bar non-Muslims from Heaven.
Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion (La Ikra fi Deen is what Allah says). Islam also teaches that Muslims must protect the religious freedom of others - even to the point of waging war against those who do wrong
C22v40
"...And if Allah had not repelled some people by means of others, cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft remembered, would surely have been destroyed. And Allah will, surely, help him who helps Him. Allah is, indeed, Powerful, Mighty"
Note the order in which the places of worship are mentioned - cloisters (i.e. monasteries and convents), churches and synagogues - then Muslim places of worship.
If one looks at the areas where Muslims were in power in the early days of Islam, you will find complete religious tolerance and no compulsion whatsoever. People were free to believe what they wanted to believe and discussions were respectful.
What Islam abhors though is idol worship, and even there Islam does not allow Muslims to ridicule the idols of idol worshippers (see quote in my previous submission).
I see absolutely no point in trying to ram one's own set of beliefs down another person's throat. It serves only to cause ill-will and does not change anyone's opinion. I personally don't enjoy hitting my head against a wall :)
Sleepless - your post was excellent and actually encapsulates what Islam teaches (that every soul is good - all are born pure and there are good and evil tendencies in everyone. Ultimately we are judged on what we do and there is only one judge.)
To the muslims, don't get me wrong - the Quran does say that Islam is the final religion and will be the only religion accepted by Allah - but it also specifies what following Islam actually means in practice. Islam is submission to the will of God to gain His pleasure (and therefore find peace). The first Muslim according to the Quran was Abraham, and one of the wife of Pharaoh is described as a very pious lady who was vouchsafed revelation from Allah.
Ask any Imam what the fate of a person who has never heard of Islam, but leads a pious and good life (there are many parts of the world or even this country, the UK, where the message of Islam hasn't really been preached). If a person, through no fault of their own, has not been given the chance to accept or reject Islam, but leads an exemplary life - will that person automatically go to Hell? If you say 'yes', then I humbly ask for a reference (or even an Imam who believes this).
Anyway, I will resist saying anything else in this thread now.
Wasalaam,
Shafique
Shafique : anyway u will be resposible for the post if u have misguided ppls..
well my dear friends enjoy ur life with its fullest...its ur life u are sole responsible for that..for u Allah has clearly said
Ch2v 6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
v7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
v8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
v9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
v10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
goodbye friends take care Chocoholic Oh you're leaving? Got too hot for you? Shame! You seemed like a relatively intelligent person, just devoid of any common sense. See ya :salute: :cheers: Liban
- HP wrote:
- kelly1966 wrote:
Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liban was saying that u were dying to come in Dubai but your husband was not as qualified as Liban ws and he couldt manage to find any place in dubai .........
is it true ? :roll: - kelly1966 wrote:
I never said that. Tell me where I said that. Liban
- kelly1966 wrote:
- HP wrote:
- kelly1966 wrote:
Blab on all you want, as I have nothing more to say to you................fill your boots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liban was saying that u were dying to come in Dubai but your husband was not as qualified as Liban ws and he couldt manage to find any place in dubai .........
is it true ? :roll: - kelly1966 wrote:
What do you think? - HP wrote:
Who cares. Liban
- wolfsievers wrote:
I said you were smart for going to Canada because the real reason is that if you had stayed in Lebanon the Syrians would have f......ing killed you. Be sure all your posts concerning what you hated in Canada have been copied and will be used for future reference. Enta Hamar
Whatever. Mussi baydati ya a7be.
Oh and ask yourself who controls Syria and then try to figure out just who I am. You have no clue which clan I come from so watch you words lady.
You have no clue who I am and who I know, so for your own good, stay in Qatar and don't bother me anymore.
Loser....
And fine, save all my posts about me hating the weather in Canada. You can use that for future reference with Mother Nature when she wants to do something bad to me... :lol: sniper420 Well would u please care to lock the thread and delete it? Choco and emadullah -u guys are mature enuf, why the hell are u guys so excited? If each of u guys just use common sense this place was meant to discuss issues calmly not flaming at each other. If somebody is getting into the nerves, must say farewell and stay out for a week... If I would have been the admin , this thread would have been locked long time ago cos of th topic itself is controversial. :x Liban I should learn not to help people anymore. 1) I helped Kelly1966 save truckloads of money when her husband came to Dubai to look for a job by setting her up with cheap accomodations with a buddy of mine on the list and personally voutching for them. 2) I got a good recruiter to try and help out her sweet and kind husband and kept my ear open for opportunities. 3) I was even willing to help take them up potentially in March at my place to save them money even more when they try Dubai again. 4) I felt bad when her husband, who I befriended, left Dubai empty handed. I hoped that he would get back soon with a job and a smile. Then what happens, Kelly takes my posts out of context, invites her sister from Qatar to join this forum just to flame me and leave, and is trying to make me look bad when I have done nothing wrong. What a sap I have been friends with this ungrateful person. At least there are many on this forum who like me and who I know personally and get along very well with. You know who you are guys. Peace to you all.