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What do you want for the Middle East?


freza Kanelli
Sorry, but I think you are being very naive about this entire situation. I completely agree with what Maad says, Israel did not decide to attack only after Hezbollah's kidnappings - the kidnappings were nothing but a ruse. Hezbollah had done prisoner exchanges with Israel before. Recently Hez not only attempted (but failed) to kidnap soldiers - they had announced their intentions publicly - it was no secret, Israel knew what was coming. The kidnapping was just an excuse to attack and invade the same way that those elusive weapons of mass destruction were an (extremely bad) excuse for the US to attack Iraq. History is quite clear - when the US and Israel want something, nothing stands in the way, "truth" and legitimate reasons not being an exception.
Hezbollah kicked out the last Israeli forces out of the Lebanon so this is about getting even and going after what it wanted in the first place: To establish a proxy government in Lebanon and crush any enemies along its borders. The Syrian withdrawal was well orchestrated, the excuse was Hariri's murder, but it could have been any other excuse. This was all planned just like any significant military attack is planned. I recommend that you read this article stating how Israel were planning this invasion at least one year ago. There was also an article on the online edition of the Jerusalem Post, stating significant troop prepardeness along the Lebanese border prior to the kidnapping.
Kanelli, I just wonder, why would anyone at this point trust anything coming from the US administration and its strongest ally? The US/Israel are one, and yet their propaganda is picked up by many people. After so much deceit, how can you still trust what these two nations have to say? " If Hizbollah had not done that, my Lebanese friends would be back visiting their families right now as there would be no bombing. " This is precisely what Israel would want you to believe. And I guess their propaganda has proven effective in your case.
As to Palestinian crisis not being an unequal, wow, are you serious? Re: Palestinian lands, how can Palestinians lacking basic defense means, be capable of enacting justice when attacked? Suicide bombs are a weapon of last resort to those that lack the conventional weapons that Israel uses. Are you saying that home-made bombs detonated by a single person cause the same amount of damage that a series of bombs and shellings do? Statistically they don't, just in case common sense wouldn't already give you the answer to this one.
MaaaD
Israel has been itching to get hezbollah out of the south, they cant handle the fact that this powerful armed mini army is threatning there norther borders. Ever since they left in 2000 Israel has been trying to infiltrate hezbollah, pressure syria (via the US) and other tactics (some might tell you killing the hariri was part of that plot too). Israel is used to winning, and hezbollah defied that, they need to go one or the other.

They are to be used to exchange the 10 thousand arab prisonsers in israeli prisons with no trial or any sort of due process. Lots of the freed prisonsers talked about intense torture and even sodomy. Hezbollah is trying to get those in the prison right now out, and they know the israeli goverment has done prisoner exchanges before.
Trust me Israel's timing of this hit is not random, they are playing the lebanese internal divisions to the maxiumum. However i must say they have failed, since i have seen an increasing solidarity with the resistance since the begining of this. more and more lebanese people have realised Israel's ploy. kanelli How do you know the Israelis were itching to attack Lebanon? Even if they were, Hizbollah gave them the way in, didn't they? What strategic purpose did kidnapping the two Israeli soldiers have? Perhaps to incite Israel to attack and stir up a hornets nest in the region. I'm sure that the everyday Lebanese are happy with Hizbollah's political games - look at what it has gotten for them and their country. :roll: MaaaD Kanelli its pretty obvious now that this is has nothing to do with the two kidnapped soldiers. This is an operation that israel has been preparing for a long time. The soldiers are put in the bottom of the lists of requests, they are just merely an excuse. kidnapping and skirmishes have been happening along the border with lebanon for the past 6 years, only now Israel found that the situation is ripe to give lebanon a strike. kanelli Freza, I do understand. As I have said in other threads that you probably have not read, Israel is out of control right now. They are being ridiculously heavy handed. Having said this, it is not like Israel picked Lebanon out of a hat as this months target. Hizbollah crossed the border and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers. If Hizbollah had not done that, my Lebanese friends would be back visiting their families right now as there would be no bombing. Hamas and all kinds of militant groups have shelled Israeli territory killing Israelis citizens, and suicide bombers have blown themselves up on buses and in public places in Israel. I would hardly call this a one-sided conflict. Each party takes it turn to attack, and Israel overpowers because it has the weapons and money, and yes, more backing from the international community. This is not fair, as I have mentioned in previous threads. If each side resorts to violence there will never be peace. freza
Why are you not getting me? I think my words are pretty self-explanatory, but here I am repeating myself again. The REAL issue is not Israelis and Arabs slaughtering each other, the reality is that the Israelis are doing the slaughtering and wiping out. You make it seem as if this conflict is even, it is NOT, it is far from even. All that you need to do to see this is turn on our TV - it's there and very clear, Israel is obliterating Lebanon and no one is stopping it. Israel has gone back on its promises (once again) in regards to Gaza and has invaded it bringing chaos and bloodshed - no one is stopping it.
I think the more realistic hypothetical question should be: " If Palestinian territories and Lebanon did not exist, there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict now would there? " Yeah, exactly. Why do you think Israel is doing what it's doing? Israel does not want peace - it is so obvious. What we want does not matter when Israel and the US can get away with murder and destruction while blatantly ignoring international opinions and laws. kanelli
Freza, this poll is not a priority to me - it was only to satisfy my curiosity. If Arabs and Israelis are going to slaughter each other, then so be it. I am not Arab or Israeli, and my family is safe and sound in Canada - so I don't really have to be passionate about this subject do I? The fact remains that I do care because I care about others outside of my family and country, and I care about peace in the world and a good standard of living for all.
If Israel did not exist, there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict now would there? That is the reason behind option 2 in the poll. Chocoholic If you want to get angry at someone, then why don't you get angry at the arab nations for failing to lift a finger to help! What have they done so far? Nothing, apart from sit around a table and fight and argue, which is typical and ridiculous. The UK has now sent 2 Navy ships to rescue stranded British expats, but what about others trapped there, what are their countries doing? Nothing! Because when it boils down to it they're all cowards who won't get involved to stop retaliations against their own backs. MaaaD
Officially Israel and Lebanon are in a state of war. This never stopped. Hezbollah attacked a military jeep, and captured military personnel. There was no attack on civilians. And ofcourse Israel reacts by bombing the shit out of civilians and there infrastrcuture. The soldiers were kidnapped in the morning, Israel didnt know 100% if its true till the afternoon. Trust me hezbollah could have those soldiers in the artic during that time. Bombing the airport is just stupid. Just signs of a weak Israel that has no strategy in fighting a war with the much more organized and threatning hezbollah. kanelli I am curious to see what the answers to this poll will be.

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Lionheart Fair threatment and that Isreal be made to comply with international law the same way every country in the region is expected to comply with International Law. No interference from US or any other western countries in the affairs of countries in Mid east. The removal of the dictators, pseudo kings and puppets. Chocoholic I think it's disgusting that there are people here that would encourage violence and the eradication of an entire nation! It's sad, pathetic attitudes like this which feed wars and aggression. As Gandhi said, 'Only peace encourages peace' and 'An eye for an eye, will leave the world blind' - or words to that effect. There is blame on both sides whichever way you look at it. But it will take the bigger, more human nation to down arms and offer the hand of peace. Open your eyes people! We're all human! Arabs nations will never band together, they're too greedy and happy to be in the pockets of other nations. Corcovado
excuse me dear.. are u watching the news... the israelis they told the people of a village to leave their houses and then they bombed them all :x :x they destroyed my whole country ... and 100 killed so far ... see gaza they killed a whole family while sitting on the beach for no fuking reason ... what peace??? the reason there is war in the middle east is because of israel and we all know it ... let israel wipe off MaaaD Peace ofcourse Kanelli. Anyone who wants Israel completely wiped out is a hypocrite because that is exactly what the Israelis are trying to do .. systematic genocide based on not being part of a religious group. Peace however needs to be between equal parties that have the power to negotiate, and can take and give. After all this is a war over real estate, very very important real estate. Peace in the middle east. MaaaD
This is exactly what happens. Israel drives Arabs crazy and bring out the worst in them ... emotions of anger and revenge. Corocovadao dear, your family , friends, and the whole country of Lebanon is in our prayers. I know those are hard days for you .. be strong. Justice will prevail. Corcovado Please singe the petition and vote on cnn Chocoholic The Israeli reaction to the situation is over the top, I have never disputed that fact or ever said what they are doing is right. However are Hezbollah also not to blame? Did they not cross borders, kidnap and kill? Yes they did, open your eyes, it's never a one-sided argument. To justify the wiping out of an entire nation is a sick fantasy by narrow minds who feed on the destruction of human life. It's pathetic, it's sad and no sane human being should ever want that of another. I have never, do not, and will never understand these attitudes, they are an alien concept to me. People should be working for peace and not war. To say that you want an entire nation wiped of the map is not an answer to anything, it breeds hatred and intolerance. What people should be doing is working on ways to live together, instead of destroying each other. We only have one earth and mankind is well on the way to f***ing it up completely, because there would rather be killing than living in peace, and at the end of the day for what? Absolutely nothing! Does every man, woman and child not have the god given right to have a place to call a home? To live in safety? Without fear? Yes they do but it's ignorant, hateful attitudes that keep the hell fires burning! It's shameful! kanelli Saying that Israel is trying to commit "genocide" against Arabs because they attack Palestinians and Lebanese is the same thing as calling all militant action against Israeli military personnel and targets "terrorism". It is false. We have seen enough cases of genocide in Europe and Africa to know the difference. Do you think that Israel is going to make people happy as they try to carve out a homeland for themselves on territory that historically both Muslims and Jews have called home? The reality is that people in the area are going to get displaced and killed when they resist. There have been peaceful solutions negotiated over the years, but each side refuses to cooperate. From what I can see, there are still some people who think that it is realistic to see Israel wiped out. There will be no peace as long as people feel that way, and there will be no peace if the international community does not start holding Israel accountable for its heavy handedness. Chocoholic Well said K.
MaaaD
I take it back, maybe the use of the term genocide is too harsh of a word, i let my emotions run. To me the life of any of my brethern is X1000 thats why.
But I want to note that the issue not as complicated as you might think Kanelli. If you want to assume that the UN resolutions and International arbitration should be the basis of a peacful resolution then here is what is needed for peace:
two states along each other along the 1967 borders and jerusalem a shared capital of the two states (west for Israel, East for Palestine) .. And ofcourse the right of return of the Palestinian refugees.
All these are stipulated by corresponding UN resolutions, however everytime the Palestinians and Israelis go to the negotiating table. Israel tries to say things are impractical and cant be done, blah blah blah. What Israel wants is for the Palestinians to concede to there rights in a time of weakness. We should give up East Jerusalem, we should give up the dismantling of illegal settlments, we should give up the refugees right of return. kanelli I completely understand how you can be passionate about this topic. I always try to keep that in mind. It is true, Israel has not been as cooperative as it should. There are probably many Israelis who would be happy with some of the UN solutions, but then there is the extreme group that doesn't want to give up one inch of space or make any concessions. Nick81 Once again your posts are a lil ray of sunshine on these forums K. :) Anyway I think this poll doesn't really make sense. Peace is our only option. We will never wipe out Israel. Israeli will never pack their things and leave either. As hard as it is, we need to turn the page and focus on ensuring a good future for the next generations. Everyone is failing to see that. Until we do that, we will keep on losing everything, rebuilding, losing everything and so on. xibit i think the second option is useless and illogical. yeah peace with isreal is very important but only if i have the upper hand. MaaaD
Nick its admirable that you want to ensure a good future for your children and the coming generations. But i dont see how accepting the gross imbalance of power in the region and accepting to terms dictated by Israel an occupying agressive force just south of you is actually going to get you a safe future for your children. Actually your positions that i have read so far seem to be geared towards a short sighted want of a good life for the current lebanon, and not in the future. A64Venice Great to read your opinions....here is mine.... The main driver of conflict is an imbalance of power in the Middle East. What pisses people off is how Israeli actions are disproportionate to what its surrounding countries are doing. Its on average a 1 Jew to 10 Arab death ratio. Sure, Hezbullah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers which I agree sparked the crisis. Big deal...Israel could have just traded soldiers and had the situation closed, but no, it bombed the Beirut Int Airport and exit highways to Syria so that the civilians suffer, while conveniently justifying bullshit on cnn that terrorist are bringing in ammunition. The Israeli military policy seems to make Arab civilans suffer 10times to what its own people suffer by destroying city infrastructure, water and power plants. If you think about it, the worst thing you can do to someone is take away their basic means to live. 8 Israelis die in a Hezbullah rocket attacks today, but are you forgetting the almost 100 civilians dead in Lebanon. Again a more or less 1:10 ratio Only when the Israeli imbalance of power ends in the Middle East will this situation come to a resolve. Only then will there be peace amongst the people there. And the way things are going, I am guessing its either going to be Arabs or Israels left in this region once this conflict ends. They need a miracle to get along with each other now. ajb
Gee at the time of my voting 61% of people believe the Israeli response was justified ... how sad that people can believe that. murphy 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our minds Have no fear for atomic energy Cause none of them can stop the time How long shall they kill our prophets While we stand aside and look Some say it's just a part of it We've got to fulfill the book Won't you help to sing, these songs of freedom Cause all I ever had, redemption songs..................' This is my West Indian heritage coming to the fore, but I hope it places some hope in your minds................ Chocoholic
You're right Nick. Sadly the younger generations are only suffering and learning past on hatred from the previous ones. It's time for it to stop and for people to live in peace. MS
Correction: arab leaders/dictators/kings ............not nations! freza This poll does not reflect reality. The issue is NOT about wiping out Israel! Israel's existence is not at risk here. Who is trying to wipe out whom at this very moment? I'm not talking about words I'm talking about ACTIONS; saying that Israel should be eradicated and actually trying to eradicate it are two very different things. Israel has just destroyed another country's infrastructure and economy to the point of collapse, and you're concerned about some wishing death to Israel? Someone has their priorities seriously distorted here.
Ms Kanelli, you seem to pay more attention to some people's wishful thinking and empty threats than to Israeli's bombing campaigns. This defies logic by all means. easternjewel call me ignorant, pathetic, looser, a retard. I vote for the wipe out. The israeli's will always be a reason behind fu*ck ups. Corcovado
i hear u.. and i 100 % agree with u raidah were i to see my ppl slaughtered every day, im sure i would wish death to all who r responsable. i would go mad, desperate just like u, also would want revenge and all. these r all human feelings. natural feelings. but would u be capable of killing a baby, a child? even if he belongs to the enemy...to wipe off means killing the babies too Chocoholic EJ and C, it's sad attitudes like yours that keep wars going in the first place! I would never wish death to anyone! I bet neither of you have ever met an Israeli or a Jew in your life. Your views are why the human race is failing, I pity you. It's actually people like you with aggressive tendancies who would choose to spread hatred who should be locked up out of harms way, so you cannot poison the minds of those who work for peace. Corcovado
Aggressive Tendeancies????????????????? us?? try my dear to see ur kids burned to death infront of ur eyes ... try to loose contact with ur parents cos they bombed the mobile stations ... try to live on the streets with ur babies who are crying sick and hungry cos israel destroyed their homes and killed ur husband ...its people like u who makes me loose faith in humanity ... its people like u who are so cold hearted and prefer to stay blind and deaf instead of sympathing with people who are killed everyday for no reason...P.S ur talking about haterd !! i guess u know very well that the ISRAELI KIDS who were signing the missles that killed the innocence in libanon..... WHO HAS THE POISNED MIND NOW?????? mraph33
I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately it is very hard to say good things about Israel right now with its exaggerated response to the Hezbollah instigation. My own opinion is in time of strife it makes more sense to speak of ending the violence, rather than speaking of retribution. Chocoholic And yet this has been happening in Iraq everyday for the last few years and yet you've said nothing. Interesting that you only voice your opinions when it's happening to you! I've have never and will never support or condone what Israel is doing. I have always said that the reaction is a terrible one, but that does not justify and eye for an eye. And also you conveniently forget that people are dying on both sides here. Retaliation is never a solution. For you to lower yourself to that level makes you no better.



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