Captain Australia
I heard some interesting talk on Dubai One this afternoon talking about how people have been knocking Dubai in the international press. (can't remember the blokes name who was saying it sorry, regular host/guest though)
Basically they were upset about the Germaine Greer blog and an article in the New York Times among others that were, as they said, laying the boot into Dubai. The basic beef was that these people were just spouting rumours and not bothering to check their facts.
An interesting point the guy said was that we (expats) love to have a gossip about the rumours of Dubai, because we live here, but that we get a bit defensive about others saying stuff about the place, especially when they get the facts wrong.
As much as I've been gossiping to my friends here I found myself agreeing with the guy. Getting oddly defensive about other's knocking my adopted home. So I guess what I'm saying is that Dubai, you've won. I kinda like you know, and I reckon I'll go into bat to defend you.
If it was summer I'd say it was just the heat talking.
arniegang
Interesting one this.
As a Brit, Brit knocking is commonplace, hey we even knock ourselves in the press and TV.
Dubai is a different story. Everyone was on the up and up, bigger and bigger bandwagon when it was going that way. The more Dubai was put on a pedistal then the harder the knock on the way down.
A bigger and better man takes the knocks, then gets up and does something about it.
Dubai ? The newpapers and journalists are gagged, no bad news and some total numpty tells everyone only 11 cars have been recovered from the airport.
To be honest as much as i love Dubai, it has become a victim of its own success. it suppreses anything that doesnt fit the image other than the image they want us to see.
How much more respect would Dubai receive if it were open and transparent ? I would say a lot of respect. What do they choose to do ? Treat everyone like they are total idiots.
IMHO Dubai is getting nothing less than it deserves.
"you can only fool some of the people some of the time, not all the people all of the time"
sage & onion
- arniegang wrote:
Interesting one this.
As a Brit, Brit knocking is commonplace, hey we even knock ourselves in the press and TV.
Dubai is a different story. Everyone was on the up and up, bigger and bigger bandwagon when it was going that way. The more Dubai was put on a pedistal then the harder the knock on the way down.
A bigger and better man takes the knocks, then gets up and does something about it.
Dubai ? The newpapers and journalists are gagged, no bad news and some total numpty tells everyone only 11 cars have been recovered from the airport.
To be honest as much as i love Dubai, it has become a victim of its own success. it suppreses anything that doesnt fit the image other than the image they want us to see.
How much more respect would Dubai receive if it were open and transparent ? I would say a lot of respect. What do they choose to do ? Treat everyone like they are total idiots.
IMHO Dubai is getting nothing less than it deserves.
"you can only fool some of the people some of the time, not all the people all of the time"
Arnie, for all of what Dubai has given you I think you are being a bit hard, give us something that you really like and enjoy, come on, for once. :D
arniegang
Sage
No matter how much anyone likes or dislikes a place, at the end of the day realism has to kick in.
I do not dispute Dubai has been good to me. But there again i was one of the first batch of investors way way back that put my money and my trust in Shiek Mo in supporting his promises of what Dubai could offer me.
Back then mate and you know this is true, the average expat wouldn't touch buying a propery and this mentallity continued to around 2005.
You and me sage we took the chance and invested in that dream, we contributed to that dream, we put something in and took something out.
But i dont feel it owes me anything and i dont owe it anything. I take as i find. At the moment i feel Dubai is treating all those expats that have made a contribution to Dubai's economy with complete and utter contempt.
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox. When the "chips are down " mate they are interested in only loking after themselves.
The banking system in the Emirates are near to collapse and what is the Dubai goverment doing ? Nothing. Abu Dhabi a pathetic 16 billion Dhs. Geez mate the Brit Government pumped the equivilent of 100 billion into Northern Rock and the Yanks this week announced a package equiv to some 300 Billion Dhs on top of the hundreds of billions they have used to bail out banks and insurance companies.
What do the dubai government do for the people ? They introduce slab rates for DEWA. The more you use the more you pay, elsewhere the general principle is the more you use the bigger the discount. The government could give everyone a community charge holiday - hell will they, not a chance. Someone looses his job, how do the government repay him ? they give him and his/her family a month to leave - g- wizz theres compassion for you NOT.
Master Developers owned by Dubai Inc are bleeding owners dry by hiking up Service Fee's. Are the Government stepping in to control this - nope, they dont give a monkeys because the money circulates back to them.
The housing market is in crisis, what do the government do ? They hike up the costs to buyer and purchaser for land registry. The new RERA rules now give the developer the ability to keep 30% of a purchasers deposit if he cant obtain a mortgage to complete. Can he get a mortgage in Dubai ? Nope, so bang goes the purchasers 30%. Does anyone truely believe thiese investors are going to come back after the government has robbed them? A fool would i suppose.
Tell you what Sage if you can give me 5 examples of how the government are helping the economy and the average Expat i will retract everything i say. (and putting off the deadline of ID cards till 2011 doesn't count).
Red Chief
- arniegang wrote:
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox.
Dear Arnie,
sorry for interference but Dubai defenetely owes "you" nothing because you didn't gave them anything before in terms of taxes for example...
Actually there were only a few places in the World where you could receive all money you earned free of taxation not paying for poor homeless ppl, Africanamericans who have to have their own cotteges due to they were born in the richest counrty in the World only etc...
Even in HKG they have 12% personal income tax and about 80% tax for ownership a car at one hand and you have to pay for using every single big structure like tunnels and bridges rather big fee (by the way much bigger then 5 Dhs)... Even if you go through tunnel from peninsula to island by metro you will pay more then 5 Dhs... If you go from airport to City Centre by speed train it will cast more then $100 !!!
Wednesday Jones
[quote="Red Chief"]
- arniegang wrote:
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox.
It's helped me,
I have managed to pay off in just over a year debts that would have taken me a million years to pay off in the UK!
The primary reason for a move to Dubai, admittedly
:lol:
sage & onion
- arniegang wrote:
Sage
No matter how much anyone likes or dislikes a place, at the end of the day realism has to kick in.
I do not dispute Dubai has been good to me. But there again i was one of the first batch of investors way way back that put my money and my trust in Shiek Mo in supporting his promises of what Dubai could offer me.
Back then mate and you know this is true, the average expat wouldn't touch buying a propery and this mentallity continued to around 2005.
You and me sage we took the chance and invested in that dream, we contributed to that dream, we put something in and took something out. [color=red]1) Dubai gave you and I as well as everyone else the chance to make something out of our hard earned cash, whether we took it up was the individuals choice, I for one am gratefull for the chance.[/color]
But i dont feel it owes me anything and i dont owe it anything. I take as i find. At the moment i feel Dubai is treating all those expats that have made a contribution to Dubai's economy with complete and utter contempt.
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox. When the "chips are down " mate they are interested in only loking after themselves. [color=red]2) The Central Bank has injected cash into the local banks and guaranteed deposits in foreign bankc established locally.[/color]
The banking system in the Emirates are near to collapse and what is the Dubai goverment doing ? Nothing. Abu Dhabi a pathetic 16 billion Dhs. Geez mate the Brit Government pumped the equivilent of 100 billion into Northern Rock and the Yanks this week announced a package equiv to some 300 Billion Dhs on top of the hundreds of billions they have used to bail out banks and insurance companies. [color=red] 3) I don't think it is near to collapse, things are even started to move again with project payments tec. [/color]
What do the dubai government do for the people ? They introduce slab rates for DEWA. The more you use the more you pay, elsewhere the general principle is the more you use the bigger the discount. The government could give everyone a community charge holiday - hell will they, not a chance. Someone looses his job, how do the government repay him ? they give him and his/her family a month to leave - g- wizz theres compassion for you NOT. [color=red] 4) The slab system is about trying to encourage people to use less power, the actual base rates have not increased. [/color]
Master Developers owned by Dubai Inc are bleeding owners dry by hiking up Service Fee's. Are the Government stepping in to control this - nope, they dont give a monkeys because the money circulates back to them. [color=red]5) Service fees are now being controlled by Rera, our service fees for instance have been reduced by 40%.[/color]
The housing market is in crisis, what do the government do ? They hike up the costs to buyer and purchaser for land registry. The new RERA rules now give the developer the ability to keep 30% of a purchasers deposit if he cant obtain a mortgage to complete. Can he get a mortgage in Dubai ? Nope, so bang goes the purchasers 30%. Does anyone truely believe thiese investors are going to come back after the government has robbed them? A fool would i suppose. [color=red] 6) Don't you think it is the speculators that have ruined the market, at least this will stop them albeit a little late. [/color]
Tell you what Sage if you can give me 5 examples of how the government are helping the economy and the average Expat i will retract everything i say. (and putting off the deadline of ID cards till 2011 doesn't count).
RobbyG
Arnie versus Onion.
Next episode please! I reckon you taped a few episodes in advance?
:happy1:
quatroporte
- sage & onion wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
Sage
No matter how much anyone likes or dislikes a place, at the end of the day realism has to kick in.
I do not dispute Dubai has been good to me. But there again i was one of the first batch of investors way way back that put my money and my trust in Shiek Mo in supporting his promises of what Dubai could offer me.
Back then mate and you know this is true, the average expat wouldn't touch buying a propery and this mentallity continued to around 2005.
You and me sage we took the chance and invested in that dream, we contributed to that dream, we put something in and took something out. [color=red]1) Dubai gave you and I as well as everyone else the chance to make something out of our hard earned cash, whether we took it up was the individuals choice, I for one am gratefull for the chance.[/color]
But i dont feel it owes me anything and i dont owe it anything. I take as i find. At the moment i feel Dubai is treating all those expats that have made a contribution to Dubai's economy with complete and utter contempt.
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox. When the "chips are down " mate they are interested in only loking after themselves. [color=red]2) The Central Bank has injected cash into the local banks and guaranteed deposits in foreign bankc established locally.[/color]
The banking system in the Emirates are near to collapse and what is the Dubai goverment doing ? Nothing. Abu Dhabi a pathetic 16 billion Dhs. Geez mate the Brit Government pumped the equivilent of 100 billion into Northern Rock and the Yanks this week announced a package equiv to some 300 Billion Dhs on top of the hundreds of billions they have used to bail out banks and insurance companies. [color=red] 3) I don't think it is near to collapse, things are even started to move again with project payments tec. [/color]
What do the dubai government do for the people ? They introduce slab rates for DEWA. The more you use the more you pay, elsewhere the general principle is the more you use the bigger the discount. The government could give everyone a community charge holiday - hell will they, not a chance. Someone looses his job, how do the government repay him ? they give him and his/her family a month to leave - g- wizz theres compassion for you NOT. [color=red] 4) The slab system is about trying to encourage people to use less power, the actual base rates have not increased. [/color]
Master Developers owned by Dubai Inc are bleeding owners dry by hiking up Service Fee's. Are the Government stepping in to control this - nope, they dont give a monkeys because the money circulates back to them. [color=red]5) Service fees are now being controlled by Rera, our service fees for instance have been reduced by 40%.[/color]
The housing market is in crisis, what do the government do ? They hike up the costs to buyer and purchaser for land registry. The new RERA rules now give the developer the ability to keep 30% of a purchasers deposit if he cant obtain a mortgage to complete. Can he get a mortgage in Dubai ? Nope, so bang goes the purchasers 30%. Does anyone truely believe thiese investors are going to come back after the government has robbed them? A fool would i suppose. [color=red] 6) Don't you think it is the speculators that have ruined the market, at least this will stop them albeit a little late. [/color]
Tell you what Sage if you can give me 5 examples of how the government are helping the economy and the average Expat i will retract everything i say. (and putting off the deadline of ID cards till 2011 doesn't count).
Go Sage :hello1:
sage & onion
- RobbyG wrote:
Arnie versus Onion.
Next episode please! I reckon you taped a few episodes in advance?
:happy1:
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :lol:
1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
arniegang
I strongly disagree i put nothing into the system. I paid the same stealth taxes that everyone else paid, anyone who says Dubai is tax free is incorrect.
RobbyG
- arniegang wrote:
I strongly disagree i put nothing into the system. I paid the same stealth taxes that everyone else paid, anyone who says Dubai is tax free is incorrect.
What stealth taxes...elaborate please?
arniegang
- quatroporte wrote:
- sage & onion wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
Sage
No matter how much anyone likes or dislikes a place, at the end of the day realism has to kick in.
I do not dispute Dubai has been good to me. But there again i was one of the first batch of investors way way back that put my money and my trust in Shiek Mo in supporting his promises of what Dubai could offer me.
Back then mate and you know this is true, the average expat wouldn't touch buying a propery and this mentallity continued to around 2005.
You and me sage we took the chance and invested in that dream, we contributed to that dream, we put something in and took something out. [color=red]1) Dubai gave you and I as well as everyone else the chance to make something out of our hard earned cash, whether we took it up was the individuals choice, I for one am gratefull for the chance.[/color]
[color=blue]I dont see your point here Sage, i already stated i invested in the dream of dubai. I didnt expect a return when i invested because back then there was NO property market. They didn't GIVE me a chance, they took my cash. I paid the market rate for what was on offer.[/color]
But i dont feel it owes me anything and i dont owe it anything. I take as i find. At the moment i feel Dubai is treating all those expats that have made a contribution to Dubai's economy with complete and utter contempt.
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox. When the "chips are down " mate they are interested in only loking after themselves. [color=red]2) The Central Bank has injected cash into the local banks and guaranteed deposits in foreign bankc established locally.[/color]
[color=blue]They pumped a small injection of cash into the system in November. It was swallowed up in 2 days. As at December 2008, the banking system needed a further 130 billion dhs to remain stable at that point in time. No further cash injection has been forthcoming. The interbank rate is the highest on Record and the banks are so starved of cash, hardly any lending is taking place and many people are having their credit line reduced.[/color]
The banking system in the Emirates are near to collapse and what is the Dubai goverment doing ? Nothing. Abu Dhabi a pathetic 16 billion Dhs. Geez mate the Brit Government pumped the equivilent of 100 billion into Northern Rock and the Yanks this week announced a package equiv to some 300 Billion Dhs on top of the hundreds of billions they have used to bail out banks and insurance companies. [color=red] 3) I don't think it is near to collapse, things are even started to move again with project payments tec. [/color]
[color=blue]See Above[/color]
What do the dubai government do for the people ? They introduce slab rates for DEWA. The more you use the more you pay, elsewhere the general principle is the more you use the bigger the discount. The government could give everyone a community charge holiday - hell will they, not a chance. Someone looses his job, how do the government repay him ? they give him and his/her family a month to leave - g- wizz theres compassion for you NOT. [color=red] 4) The slab system is about trying to encourage people to use less power, the actual base rates have not increased. [/color].
[color=blue]The slab rate was designed to increase the charges for consumers in Developments where cooling is supplied by Empower. As a villa owner Sage this will not affect you directly, nor other villa owners. The majority who are affected by this live in Appartment developments and forms a large chunk of their service charge.[/color]
Master Developers owned by Dubai Inc are bleeding owners dry by hiking up Service Fee's. Are the Government stepping in to control this - nope, they dont give a monkeys because the money circulates back to them. [color=red]5) Service fees are now being controlled by Rera, our service fees for instance have been reduced by 40%.[/color] .
[color=blue]RERA will have no control over the Master Developers Service Charges. It is a known fact from within, that the 3 big ones have already negotiated an exclusion with RERA. [/color]
The housing market is in crisis, what do the government do ? They hike up the costs to buyer and purchaser for land registry. The new RERA rules now give the developer the ability to keep 30% of a purchasers deposit if he cant obtain a mortgage to complete. Can he get a mortgage in Dubai ? Nope, so bang goes the purchasers 30%. Does anyone truely believe thiese investors are going to come back after the government has robbed them? A fool would i suppose. [color=red] 6) Don't you think it is the speculators that have ruined the market, at least this will stop them albeit a little late. [/color].
[color=blue]Blaming the speculators is a total cop out. The goverment was not able to control flipping because of their negligence to introduce and enforce the land registry system. It only truely came into effect last Setember, i think this is likened to bolting the door after the horse has bolted.
Furthermore the goverment allowed organisations like Sheerwoods to buy the whole development direct from the developer. They in turn, sold the individual properties at a huge profit and way in excess of the original asking price. Many people were duped into thinking they were buying directly from the developer, when in reality the properties were being sold "on commission" by the developer. People did not realise they were buying from companies like Sheerwoods. The developers also did very nicely, they sold the whole block, then resold them on behalf of who they sold it too at on a very nice commission.
Had the land registry sytem been fully in place during 2005-2008 then this would not have been possible. [/color]
Tell you what Sage if you can give me 5 examples of how the government are helping the economy and the average Expat i will retract everything i say. (and putting off the deadline of ID cards till 2011 doesn't count).
Go Sage :hello1:
arniegang
- RobbyG wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
I strongly disagree i put nothing into the system. I paid the same stealth taxes that everyone else paid, anyone who says Dubai is tax free is incorrect.
What stealth taxes...elaborate please?
For a start we all pay 5% import duty on everything. The DEWA community charge is also a tax. Certain items carry huges taxes like cigarettes. For those who buy and sell property there is now a 2% land registry charge to both the purchaser and seller. I could go on but i hope you get my drift.
Captain Australia
Cigarettes have huge taxes here?
Marlboro Lights here cost 7dhs, in Oz they would cost 30+ easy.
Red Chief
- arniegang wrote:
For a start we all pay 5% import duty on everything. The DEWA community charge is also a tax. Certain items carry huges taxes like cigarettes. For those who buy and sell property there is now a 2% land registry charge to both the purchaser and seller. I could go on but i hope you get my drift.
You forgot about 5 dirham you have to pay for passing Al Garhud bridge and 5 dirham per hour parking your car near Dubai Terminal One....
Are you serious? How much do you pay in the UK?
arniegang
[quote="Wednesday Jones"]
- Red Chief wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
The government has done absolutely nothing to help business's or the banking system. All the hype about how rich dubai is, is bollox.
It's helped me,
I have managed to pay off in just over a year debts that would have taken me a million years to pay off in the UK!
The primary reason for a move to Dubai, admittedly
:lol:
This has nothing to do with the Goverment, it was the result of the company you worked for that paid your wages. If ever you are made redundant, you will find the goverment will ask you to leave. Only you and your disposable income are of any interest to the Government.
arniegang
- Captain Australia wrote:
Cigarettes have huge taxes here?
Marlboro Lights here cost 7dhs, in Oz they would cost 30+ easy.
Check the price at Dubai Duty Free, you will find they are 5.5 Dirhams a packet there. If you buy a 1000 they are only 4 Dhs a pack.
It should be fairly easy to work out how much tax you pay now
arniegang
- Red Chief wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
For a start we all pay 5% import duty on everything. The DEWA community charge is also a tax. Certain items carry huges taxes like cigarettes. For those who buy and sell property there is now a 2% land registry charge to both the purchaser and seller. I could go on but i hope you get my drift.
You forgot about 5 dirham you have to pay for passing Al Garhud bridge and 5 dirham per hour parking your car near Dubai Terminal One....
Are you serious? How much do you pay in the UK?
We pay a lot, but those who work in the UK know this. No one professes that the UK is tax free and this discussion is not about making a comparison. The fact remains Dubai is not tax free.
Captain Australia
4dhs a pack is nothing. The pack costs the same to make so I'd be paying 27dhs tax back home.
There may be hidden taxes here but does it really compare to the open taxes I'm paying back home? I paid about 60K dhs income tax the last year working back home (not counting the smoke/petrol/alcohol etc taxes) and I was earning less than half what I am now.
arniegang
- Captain Australia wrote:
4dhs a pack is nothing. The pack costs the same to make so I'd be paying 27dhs tax back home.
There may be hidden taxes here but does it really compare to the open taxes I'm paying back home? I paid about 60K dhs income tax the last year working back home (not counting the smoke/petrol/alcohol etc taxes) and I was earning less than half what I am now.
Like i said above the discussion in this thread in not about making comparrisons to taxes in other countries. However you are paying tax everytime you buy a pack of ciggies in Dubai.
Captain Australia
Sorry, missed that last post.
You're point is correct. Dubai is not completely tax free.
Red Chief
- arniegang wrote:
Like i said above the discussion in this thread in not about making comparrisons to taxes in other countries. However you are paying tax everytime you buy a pack of ciggies in Dubai.
Crap, I never paid it 'coz I'm not an adict... but oh my Gosh, I wasted money for 2 bottles of bear in a bar twice a week.... They cost 30 dirham per bottle but I could buy 2 packs in Duty Free...
arniegang
- Red Chief wrote:
- arniegang wrote:
Like i said above the discussion in this thread in not about making comparrisons to taxes in other countries. However you are paying tax everytime you buy a pack of ciggies in Dubai.
Crap, I never paid it 'coz I'm not an adict... but oh my Gosh, I wasted money for 2 bottles of bear in a bar twice a week.... They cost 30 dirham per bottle but I could buy 2 packs in Duty Free...
You appear to be missing the point as you can only buy beer/alcohol in 5* Hotels and therefore you pay 5* prices.
Can we all get back to on topic now please.
Red Chief
- arniegang wrote:
Can we all get back to on topic now please.
The topic wasn't about taxation at all, although "yes" there is no taxation in Dubai (don't mess taxation with duties, refundable deposit for SEWA/DEWA etc).
You took out of context something that was convinient to you as usual (remember 1000 Brits?)....
The point was that many exparts think that they received from Dubai their piece of life, rather comfortable one, many of them can't afford in their homeland...
That's why it isn't an offtopic to compare Dubai with your beloved country, that once upon a time occupied a half of known world and 75% of unknown one....
dresden
Both Arnie and Sage have brilliant points.
Yes, the speculators are the ones who caused a lot of this mess, but it is the JOB of the Government to Regulate the market to avoid EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING! The de-regulation of Wallstreet is being blamed on the Government as well as the Banks. I don't hear anyone refuting that!!
Actions speak louder than words.
So far we've seen cover up after cover up of the truth. And THAT speaks volumes.
There is no system in place to account for anything and certainly not one that is seperate from Government control. So when the smallest thing seems off, it is definately going to be blown out of proportion.
The banking system is not nearing collapse? PROOF please. And I don't mean articles published by the Gov, or from the Gulf News.
I like this place. It has a lot of beautiful aspects to it...
Sheik Mo is a visionary... but perhaps he should bring someone new to help him implement his vision. over time, not overnight.
sage & onion
End of the day, I LOVE DUBAI, and I will continue to defend it.
RobbyG
- sage & onion wrote:
End of the day, I LOVE DUBAI, and I will continue to defend it.
O my God...I mean O my Allah,
Did you say; The END of Dubai ??? No more love and you'll fight for it! 8)
Boy, you really are like a sail in de wind...I mean an BurjAlArab :lol:
:twisted:
sage & onion
- RobbyG wrote:
- sage & onion wrote:
End of the day, I LOVE DUBAI, and I will continue to defend it.
O my God...I mean O my Allah,
Did you say; The END of Dubai ??? No more love and you'll fight for it! 8)
Boy, you really are like a sail in de wind...I mean an BurjAlArab :lol:
:twisted:
You are surely misunderstanding me :roll:
RobbyG
I was making a bit of fun...
Not worthy of replying Sage. You should now that by now ;)