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Dubai Expat Forum - Philosophy and Religion Forums

virginity & stupidity


Hiya " Staying a virgin until the wedding night is a requirement for the Muslim who believes God in His book. The Quran teaches in a very clear way that the happiness in this life (and in the Hereafter) depends on following God's law (e.g. Quran) . " Every day I see or I hear about this issue, I just make me feel sick! but before I start Asking I will give you an example. A fact happent in real life. *- A girl meets up a guy in what ever way , with some one non-muslim for 2 or three months . one day you find her in his car and BANG! having sex with him and loosing her virginity!! After few weeks that guy make any story and break up with her. + As a muslim girl,and she show off that she is a muslim and she always write about how her religos is making events , and then she does that , doesnt that make her a crap ? what is her title ? + Is she brainless or she watches many mexican movies ? + While she was learning islam , didnt she hear any thing about "ZINA" and what is she after losing it ? * That was a story is a real one, from real life... like 100~ ones happens every day! # What do you think that the girl thinking in while she is accepting doing it ? # Her parents rised her all her life,provided the best education for her ,doest she think about what the people whom she and her family she is living around will look at her family # When she marry, and her husbend find out she is no virgin ? # How she face her god, she did "ZINA" ? ** I wish if you guys and girls share me your opinion about this, and how you look on this issue ?
arniegang As a non muslim, these issues are not relevant. It would be down to personal choice of the individual as too whether or not they had s$x before marriage. Although its not fair to generalise, i would say however, it is near enough "the norm" nowadays. However, it is really fair to focus on this issue in its singular context?. I am sure there are many male Muslims that have s$xual relations with other women outside of their marriage. It cuts both ways. Although slightly off topic, what is the muslim stance on the same situation regarding males, ie: are they allowed to "play the field" before marriage? Liban Men and women should remain virgins until marriage. That is the Rule of God as per the Quran. MaaaD you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry :P richmc like that crap still happens. like george michael said in the song "i want your sex" 'sex is natural sex is good, not everybody does it but everybody should'! those words ring so true to me.... and to liban's good friend Diana... for a price :twisted: richmc i love how s.ex is turned to sex....i typed s.ex then not fun....that was fun not s.ex richmc i suggest she find a muslim man that has grown up in a house less strict with the muslim way of life, explain to him going into the relationship what has happened and hope for the best. Chocoholic Well, I think men get away with it much more, after all guys are encouraged to go and 'sow their oats' before settling down, but women are not, it's such a double standard. If a person is determine to stay a virgin until marriage then I think it's pretty commendable and people shouldn't frown on it. I think some guys though have a weird fantasy about 'de-flowering' a woman. It's sad that a woman would be viewed as used or unclean, but it's happens in many societies, cultures and religions, not just the Muslim one. However, personally speaking, I could never commit myself to a guy unless I've taken him for a test drive! Who wants a life of crap s-e-x? XRW-147
You could always view it as a WIP... have something to work at rather something that fizzles out ;)
Either way, personally I find it counter productive to talk about your ex's. Not that you have anything to hide but you get into new relationships to start fresh and bringing up past lovers defeats that purpose. Intimacy
Lets see if that is going to be the same when u have daughters dude

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Intimacy My Question is: Point out any religion which allow adultery (a relastionship between a man and a woman without marriage) Liban
OK, in that case, I'll make sure my son has hardcore s.e.x. with your daughter then.... That way they will not be missing out... kanelli
Yeah, but that might lead to offspring and marriage - so then you two would be related! :shock: MaaaD
i am not sure which is worse :P kanelli My opinion is that it is none of anyone's business whether that Muslim girl lost her virginity to a non-Muslim guy she wasn't married to. If people believe in a god and that god forbids such actions, then just let god deal with it! He's the boss afterall... GAB I thoroughly agree with Liban on this one. The key word is abstinence. castellano I dont know nor understand what the point of coming up with such a subject Hiya ,,, as someone here said,,, its not your business ,,, i dont know if you are a muslim ,, but it seems like you are , ofcourse its forbiden for both males and females to have s.ex before marriage ,, everybody knows that ,,even the non-muslims ,, they know that about islam ,, but you know also ,, about MA'ASIYA ,, i dont see any way that any body can give his/her opinion about this topic ,,, you are talking about something that happens ,ok ,, its forbiden , ok ,,, so what do want ppl here to give their opinion about ??/?!!!!!!!!!!! you are not living a fully islamic society ,, i mean the LAW , if it was ,, i dont say that it wouldnt happen but it would have been more controled ,, OF COURSE , THROUGH THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM , "NOT THROUGH VIOLANCE" !!!!!!!!!!! i will give an example ,, Drinking alcohol is forbiden in islam ,, can you justify why muslims sometimes drink ???? why there are nightclubs and bars in Dubai and other islamic places ???? and another thing ,, sorry to say it ,, i find it silly that you mention that "this girl" has played with a NON-MUSLIM ,,, i mean it shows a sense of that playing with a muslim is allowed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chocoholic
Who said anything about ex's? I don't get your point. Sometimes with a person you just have it in the bedroom, other times not! Sure it's something that can be worked on, but different people like different things. For many being compatible in that area is so important. yshimy didn't read all the posts as i'm still at work, but as a quick reply I never heard of a religion that sex before marriage is accpetable. I mean in the rules of the religion, not the practice. Is it ok for christians or jews???? don't think so, if someone got more knowledge please enlight us.
XRW-147 Choco, the second part of my post was not in relation to yours (its my 2 dhs worth for this topic), just the first line - hence seperated by the spacing. Sure I could have not been lazy and quoted another post to refer to but I figured hitting enter twice was easier. Chocoholic Ah OK, sorry! Yshimy, what about the issue that fewer and fewer people these days are getting married? With 1 in 3 marriages ending in divorce, people are making a commitement to one another without the 'piece of paper'! I've argued it before I don't need a bit of paper and a ring to show I'm committed to someone or them to me. And with people putting careers first these days and relationships and family going on the back burner, you can't seriously expect people to wait for something which might never happen. shafique All religions teach the sanctity of marriage. Religious people who remain celibate before getting married enter marriage with the purpose of spending the rest of their lives with their partner and forming a family. That is the goal of the relationship and the expectations are the same on both parts. Where relationships aren't entered into with the goal of marriage or long-term committment, it does mean that there is opportunity for fun (I mean fun here), but this fun is at the expense of the good of society as a whole in my opinion. Chocs last post above points to the breakdown of marriages etc. She seems to cite it as a reason against marriage. I would view this as a result of the loss of moral balance in societies today which has weakened the institution of the family as a goal in itself and in which s.ex is a commodity to be freely enjoyed with few limits. Marriage (and most relationships for that matter) involve an element of sacrifice and compromise for it to work. If one party gets everything their own way, the other party invariably is compromising in some way - that can work, but usually both need to compromise. I'm not talking about the bedroom - but generally in all aspects of life. If s.ex is confined to marriage, men have to commit to sticking with a relationship. S.ex is a great motivator.. it will ensure that compatibility in all other areas is as good as can be before a relationship is entered into.. which is, in my opinion, a better system than what many of my colleagues and friends practice - blind dates, drunken encounters in parties etc. Friends of my age that are still single now rely on introductions by friends, or friends of friends to try and hook them up with long term partners. People of my community don't have to wait until we are in our thirties to realise that is the best way to find peace and a soul mate - to be introduced to someone who is compatible and who is seeking broadly the same things as you are. The difference is that we avoid the dating game and enter into long term relationships from outset, with all the highs and lows that go along with this. Human nature being what it is, relationships sometimes fail despite all the screening up front. This is natural. That is why Islam recognises that divorce is sometimes the lesser of two evils (and incidentally why Islam was vilified as being too liberal by Christianity when it insisted divorce, womens rights etc were against the will of God). People can choose to sleep around before marriage. My experience is that it 'cheapens' the act and works to the detriment of women - how they are seen and how they see themselves. I have daughters and I am acutely aware of this aspect of modern society and it concerns parents of all religions. The saddest scene I see is pre-pubescant girls dressing like their older sisters and mums in very revealing attire - the 'trashy' look. We don't hide this choice from our daughters, but just point out the difference between how these women and girls choose to dress and how the women and girls in our communities choose to dress. Our in-joke in the household is that in summer all the poor people of the west come out in the streets - they are so poor they can't afford clothes that cover their bodies.. :) To sum up, in my view society is better off if s.ex is confined to marriage. Wasalaam, Shafique Chocoholic So you're saying that all thgose people who 'choose' not to get married, but still have life partners, can't enjoy themselves? Shaf in today's society it isn't as black and white as that. And the clothes a women wears has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of person she is either, that's a sweeping generalisation. I don't advocate sleeping around that's just stupid. But to say marriage is the be all and end all is not true. It's getting harder and harder for people to stay together in the world today, and you know what sometimes you just fall out of love, that can't be helped. arniegang Excellent post Shaf. There is very little to find fault with what you say. However, it is a subject many of us will never agree on, and i think it is a subject that is very personal to ones own values. shafique Choco - let me define marriage in terms of my arguments. Marriage is a public committment that two people are exclusive. This covers 'common law' marriages, which is a union recognised in UK law. (Edit -I also want to add that your point about it being harder to find a partner these days is, in my view, a consequence of the change in the view of what relationships are for.) So, to answer your first question - a couple in a long term relationship can very well enjoy themselves. Many people choose not to get married and still enjoy themselves. My point was that if s.ex is confined to marriages then society as a whole has a greater respect for s.ex and society as a whole benefits. I think it is sad that people can say that 'the clothes a woman wears has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of person she is either'. If you really believe this, then we must agree to disagree. I believe that what anyone chooses to wear is part of how they choose to present themselves in public. I also believe it is a reflection of one's self esteem and what image one wants to project. Nuns, for example, choose to dress in a certain way and I would be very surprised to see any nun (of today and yesteryear) wearing a boob-tube, for example. To stretch the point, would I be wrong to assume that a lady in a very short dress, fishnets, stillettos etc was NOT a nun? I think it is ironic that modern day society has convinced women that to dress skimpily and revealingly is a way to express a woman's power and authority. Many men are thankful for this and appreciate these displays of women's 'authority'! People are free to dress as they wish and to dress their kids as they see fit. We choose to be more like the West of 100 years ago where women covered up rather than subscribe to what many see as the body fascism of today where nothing is left to the imagination.. But we're a bit out of topic here - Choco, you don't advocate complete abandonment in who people sleep with - you say that would be daft. Therefore we agree that there should be some restraint and control. We therefore are merely disagreeing on the extent of the restraint - I say it it should be left to relationships where there is a good chance of a long term relationship. Marriage is a good way to ensure this. Finally, I hope I don't come across as chauvinistic - whilst being as red-blooded as the next man, I am fortunate to have strong women in my life and I'm bringing up two daughters to be as independent thinking as free in choice as their mother. We have certain values that we live by and they can see and emulate when they get older. In the meantime, we all live by the rules of Islam until they are old enough to make their independent choices. What I can see is that children are impressionable and will mimic elders and will take their cues about how to view themselves and others from their parents - if they think it is ok to bare flesh, that its ok to have a series of monogamous relationships before hopefully finding a soul mate etc, then that is what they will believe. The question is whether this makes people happier over all than the other set of beliefs. Divorces and children of divorcees are hardly ever very happy. In my view, the erosion of family values has led to a society from long-term happiness to short-term gratifications and long-term heartaches. As always, just my opinion. Wasalaam Shafique GAB Oh, Arnie you know me I wash jush taking the pith !! :lol: I love how nobody attacked the old lady!! :lol: :lol: A contentious subject. I'd like to know Diana's views on the subject. arniegang
Gabs, Will you stop the pith, wudolf du wednose weindeer, woger and woderick references please - i am trying to contain myself :lol: :lol:
Shaf you old dog :wink:
"assume that a lady in a very short dress, fishnets, stillettos etc was NOT a nun?
mmmmmmmmm this sound a very interesting variation me thinks
:shock: :shock:
:wink: kanelli Well, there are still women out there who don't fall for all the sex hype in the media, and who have few or only one partner their whole lives. They get teased because they aren't outwardly sexy and were/are still virgins for a long time. It is great if parents can raise girls to withstand the temptations by making them aware of the negative consequences of sleeping around. Ultimately, the kids will have to make their own choices though. As for clothing, that is still rather subjective. I think that covering up too much is restrictive in warm weather, and I think that having the sun and air on one's skin is wonderful. However, a strappy low-necked midrif top paired with a mini-skirt is a pretty tarty combination. Many of the see-through and neckline-to-the-belly button dresses on the Music Award shows are also sleazy looking. Finally, what is incredible to me is that some shops for young girls sell thong undies and sexy pyjamas! What little girl needs to avoid visible panty-line, and what little girl needs to feel "sexy" when she crawls into bed with her teddy bear and asks mummy to leave the night-light on! Liban
Being related. Liban
I am very very scared right now...
I find myself agreeing with Kanelli... May God Help me!!! 8) Chocoholic Interesting post Shaf and I agree with much that you've said. I think I just felt that in today's society the whole religious side of things for many is not relevant, I mean how many people get married in a church these days? Not many, come tot hink of it, how many people have actually been baptised to allow them to marry in a church? I totally agree that s.ex within a loving, caring, committed relationship is something people should strive for and keep, but like I said I don't need the bit of paper to show my commitment to someone. Girls I think grow up too fast these days, and I find it awful to see 10,11,12 year olds wearing high heels and little skirts with make-up, where's their childhood going and why do parents allow this. With regard to skimpy outfits, there's a line between sexy and slutty. And sometimes it doesn't matter what you wear, I went to a business function last night wearing smart trousers, with a plain but feminine cut top, showing absolutely nothing off and some guy still described me as 'a nice piece of ass!' So what to do? XRW-147
Choco, take it as a compliment and thank god you're "a nice piece of a#s". I figure its better to be eye candy than the butt of a joke - no pun intended.
Likewise with debating this topic... agreed that valid points can be made and justified by all, cause everyone is entitled to be who they want to be be. The basis of this is all down to each individual. Their upbringing, exposure, education, surroundings, knowledge, maturity, etc, etc, etc... all contribute to how and what decision is made - and this is not only about love, a romp in the sack, or a ring that rules all others - thanks peter jackson.
Its such a cliche` but we are all indeed different in each and every way so attempting to draw a line of right and wrong is like trying to split the ocean in two - it may have happened in the past but with how society has evolved theres so many aspects that taint the picture today.
Each to their own I reckon. GAB
I'll just go and get changed then! :lol: :lol: :lol: Chocoholic Yeah - that's my usual attire on a night out! :D Have to say though, that many women dress to please their men. Certainly my boyf prefers me to wear something that shows off the curves and assets. GAB I think all men like their partners to look "nice" and vice-versa. You're lucky to have curves and assets....I think I've got a few liabilities now!! :lol: :lol: emadullah ofcourse it is ZINA, it is a big sin, but we cant hurt or blam that girl..may be she had $ex with that guy by force to...she might be ...she were asked to prove her love to him..some guys are like that....making fun of woman ... ....otherwise he would have broke up with her...it means he wanted only her virginity...her body ...no love nothing at all.... family should give her a chance ...where she wil go if familty reject her ? no way parents have to accept her... sniper420
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah , it gives me good idea how u were born! :lol: Liban
FYI, women that constantly like to mention how good looking they are, generally are ugly as cows... GAB Well, you'll be speechless when you see me in my tweed skirt, birkenstocks and tights. I'll be beating all the young fellas off with my walking stick. Liban You are coming to the meet? GAB PM me- scary isn't it!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Liban
PM sent :D kanelli
Wow, that was really un-called for Liban.
Choco, I agree with you that our culture is different. Our men take pride in their women looking beautiful to others. This doesn't mean slutty, but wearing clothes that suit the woman's body shape and her colouring, as well as being appropriate for the setting. sniper420
Dude -dont mix ur women. Ur mixing choco and Hp's she male style. And please dont call names to any descent woman here. choco is old member here and I guess she deserves respect as a queen of Dubai forums and u Liban deserve respect cos of most spams (highest n.o posts) and being head of rainbow gang :P Chocoholic
Liban,
F*** You! I never said I was pretty or gorgeous or anything like that! My boyf happens to like the way I look, so what!
I've always been really nervous about the way I look and was bullied endlessly when I was younger, you should know this re the previous private conversations we've had.
The person that means the most to me, likes who I am and the way I look and that's all that matters to me - so take your comments and shove it up your arse! Liban Bite me. You should look into all your posts about your ample tits and blond hair and how you use them to your advantage... You not only sound like a whore when you do that but you also prove the quintessencial tule about ugly women always thinking they are all that. Hot women do not need to keep speaking of their tits and hair and ass... Chocoholic I don't have blonde hair as it happens nor any boobs, so I don't know where you got that from. You obviously can't read properly through your blacked out glasses. Don't bother replying, nothing to say to you. Liban Heh... So you say now... I don't have time to waste on the likes of you to do a search on this list with regards to your posts.... I am done with you, ya BIGOT... Chocoholic You're the biggest Bigot on this damn forum. And for your information I've nver had blonde hair, I'm a red head with a damn evil firey personality to go with it! Chocoholic You're the biggest Bigot on this damn forum. And for your information I've nver had blonde hair, I'm a red head with a damn evil firey personality to go with it! shafique Liban loves Choco really..
[ducks for cover :) ]
But seriously, do we need to stoop to personal insults? Very distasteful. Chocoholic Shaf, I'm sorry but I won't let someone get away with saying such things that just are not true. But I don't care what people like Liban think, he doesn't know me and he's obviously quick to judge and brand people from a few posts on an inpersonal forum. My friends and family are the ones whose opinions are important to me, not some upstart who wants to change the world by ramming the same boring arguments down people's throats. Where as I fully respect someone like yourself who expresses your opinions in well thought out and informative posts. I'll side with a person ,ike you anyday day over the week over someone like Liban, who by his own admittance is only out to wind people up. Liban If you don't care about my comments then stop responding to them with DOUBLE POSTS!!! Sheesh... :roll: Liban Shafique, I love kind hearted people who do not turn their backs on God... I will end the flame war... emadullah
Shame on u all :oops:
what was the issue and wat is your answer ? i think she wasted her time in this forum :( emadullah
what is this liban ???
u r the moderator of this forum and u are replying this kinda message. i realy feel pitty for u.
y we dont love and repect eachother ? is it hard to do so ? i dont think. dont expect that other wil repect u first u wil have to repect other...later they will respect u too... give and take but not take and give...first u give respect and then take it....is it hard for u all people ? Richard Owl Mirror When was the FIRST marriage ?
Were those couples who produced families prior to the FIRST marriage ceremony living contrary to God's Law?
Nucleus
What I come to understand from a discussion on my forum is that s-e-x is not the most important thing for a life long marriage.
sam14m Are western people believe in God???? raidah
we say God is everywhere and know everything. if so, than God is not only about human conduct or religious rules, but science also.
about religion. what is religion in fact? is when u profess smthing u believe in. and what is belief? well in my opinion belief is the most personal, inner thing/feeling a person can have. perciving God is like perceiving a colour. we might think that a certain type of green, for ex. looks the same to each and every person, but the truth is, it does not, for the mere fact that every individual sees it through his own eyes. now 2 ppl can be raised in the same society in very similar circumstances and still they will turn out to be different. because of so many factors, like they had different parents with different mentalities. since relationships r one of a kind, those 2 kids have seen 2 different patterns about what a good or bad relationship must be, and so on. no to mention that the level of our mental, emotional, social etc. intelligence is also not the same, but differs from one person to another.
we r human, not gods, so not one persone can, or better said may force on another what to believe in. i can show my child an example to follow, but should not take the freedom of choice from him. that would be highly immoral.
as of marriage. if a paper is powerfull enough to keep 2 ppl together whether they want it or not, than there is smthing very wrong with that society. accordingly, not a piece of paper, but how we relate and feel for each other should decide if we r a couple or not.
about s.e.x before marriage. nowadays one can get a divorce whenever. its not a problem. this makes ppl rush into marriages before thinking twice. not good for anybody, we all suffer because of ppl taking relationships so superficially.
now if we go back for ex 200 years, young baby girls of 13-14 were forced into marriages with 50-60 years old very much "used" grandpas. nor that difference of age was healthy, neither moral, human, fair and considerate for the woman the fact that she had absolutely no chance to divorce or to enjoy s.e.x for that matter. she was good for one thing and one and oly-to serve the pleasures and the image of the man.
i won t comment on how desgusting that is/was.
the conclusion in my oppinion is, that we keep forgetting over and over that the most important is that we r all human and what has more relevance than any religion or law is kindness and that we can remain human with each other.
and one more thing, even the dirtiest prostitute can have good feelings and may do smthing good, and the most religious person, always praising God can deny u a glass of water. MaaaD very well said raidah Majestic What every anyone does is only THEIR business and no one should give a damn what they do. It is not up to us to judge, only God can judge, and 2nd God is all mercful. d3vilish_ang3l_88
thats true....i so agree with u . no one has the right to judge any girl and god will be the only one who will forgive her.... arniegang Dave You sound a complete and utter pillock. :roll: :roll: :roll: DaveDXB Im sorry to bust ur bubbles and all the silly theories mentioned here..... It all comes back to 1 fact!!! which is If ur a hot young great looking guy like me, with a body physique no lady can subconciously resist! 17 out of 20 girls, no matter what! i get laid with. other 3 -time of the month -ran away from me -i didnt like her Girls at a young age are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to manipultae...U CANT BELEIVE IT! who cares what i say of course...i just had like a few dozen girls in my life, from many nationalities and backgrounds (i travel alot). Including many from UAE too....so dont go telling me "naaa u didnt try this or that" . Been there....Done that! at only age of 23, I bow down to my master (age 37) who has taught me the secrets and traits of women. raidah
i never wished anybody sickness, but in ur case i think the only cure for ur life would be a serious disfunctionality in ur instrument. that might force u to see that life is not all about ur penis and having s.e.x.
i pity u kanelli
You're the kind of guy who is likely all talk. Either that, or your selection of women are the ones with low self-esteem who are happy for any attention they get. In the end, you can bed as many women as you like, but that doesn't mean you will find happiness, love and companionship. Women who are interested in those things will be able spot guys like you in a second and you won't get the time of day. Chocoholic
Ahahahahaha yeah yeah yeah I guy who talks like this is compensating for having a weener! WEENER!!!!! Or is that a Chipalata! MS
I'm surprised that you're 23. Somebody who talks like this must be 13, at most 14.
Besides, show some respect towards women. sniper420 [quote="raidah"]
so is ur GrandMaster David Angeleno or Marilyn Manson?
:roll: brutal-romance its rediculous cuz most guys can sneak away of it, while girls cant. girls are always asked for to be decent, cover up, not get too close to guys, not get too emotional with guys ,not yaddi yaddi yadda and so on. at the end, we suffer, they dont. we miss out, they have all the fun. ok, how about this, why didnt god made guys dicks fall off the sec they perform 'Zina'. wouldnt that be fair?! again...its a personal choice. its all related to your morals, ethics, and so on. dont generalize, dont judge, cuz most of the time...its not even the girls fault!!! Wonderwoman I know this is an old thread, but I've been cracking up so much reading this that I had to post.

I just wanna point out that while Liban thinks that women who always talk about how good looking they are, are generally ugly - similarly men who always talk about how many women they've had, have probably had little or no experience with females.

What can I say? Thats hilarious. I bet there were loads more like her too....



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