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Villa prices fall by up to 45%


Del Villa prices at Jumeirah Park and Jumeirah Islands, Nakheel’s exclusive residential developments in Dubai, have plunged up to 45 percent in the last four months, Arabian Business has learnt. Brokers across the UAE said speculators were desperately scrambling to off-load property before prices fell further. Imran Aslam, agent at Dubai-based property broker AAA said completed three to four bedroom villas on Jumeirah Islands were now on the market for as low as six million dirhams, down from 10.5 million dirhams four months ago. Four years ago I kept saying I'll buy when the market crashes! I won't be buying now though anyway.
smoggie The buildings will fall apart before they are sold....Not built to last !! Chocoholic Yep. A while ago, a couple of the developers had a day where they offered properties at cost price! Not one taker! The bubble has finally burst. Oh dear oh dear! Del Hotel rates are down 40% as well. That's good news. I used to enjoy my Fujeirah Hilton - Hatta Fort - Ajman Kempinsky weekends away. smoggie Was in the fudge area hilton last weekend.....Still v. nice!! Dubai Knight Hotels are currently at 31% occupancy! They are normally at 90% at this time of year... In the last 3 months, one of the major real estate developers with 95 announced projects underway...sold 1 apartment! Just 1! If you build the tallest building in the world, the fall from the top is that much higher too! 8) 8) 8) Knight Del
Didn't know you were gay... Del
Blimey! :shock: Dubai Knight
It begins with a D and ends in C...
8) 8) 8)
Knight Chocoholic It's bleak - very bleak!

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Del
Damn...! waelsalem THE BUBBLE DID BURST... property sector is in really bad shape... and again cant wait for the rental prices to go down.!!!! TheChoosen What about the rent rates for flats? waelsalem nothing yet i heard... but my expectations is that you'll see a decline in the H2 2009 K-Dog
And the second biggest developer hasn't sold a signle property in the last 3 months. And that is according to its own CEO's interview with Reuter's a couple of weeks ago. Everything else in that interview was bullshit bonk

Ah. That was tricky. If you'd just said "95 announced projects." it would have been easier ;) dresden DAMN! I knew it was bad.... but not THAT bad. 1 sale????? are we in a recession yet? TheChoosen
And i thought the wall is down and there is now some information development :roll: :roll: :roll: :D gtmash
I'd like to meet that sucker.
dresden
I think it's UAEKID.
sshhhhhh he want's to keep his secret. arniegang If you check the RERA website they give statistics for the number of title registrations every month. IN Dubai in December only 4 yes 4 villas were registered. dresden ^ I just checked out the website. Some interesting stats. Here is one. 935 - Projects approved xdude No reason to be happy abt the real estate fall though.. Even I was waiting for it to fall.. However we must understand that Dubai economy was primarily driven br real estate & tourism. With the kind of crash that is visible in these two sectors, it will have ripple effects in the other sectors of the economy. The recession will now spread to the other sectors now.. The next in line is the banking and financial services sector. The cracks have already started to appear there now.. So its going to be a bleak 2009 for Dubai waelsalem well what amazes me over here, is the fake reports that dubai and the uae in general is doing great and that dubai is not even reaching a slowdown, and the growth rate is as usualy record breaking. it is funny with high officials in the country still try to come and convince us as the past 5 years that we have record breaking growth in all sectors and in the past 5 years it was just booming everywhere around the world, and UAE was one of the top coutnries, such as china, india, and Europe and North America as a whole. But now when all these places are have extreme difficulties with their financial and economical situation, still high officials in uae are talking about how dubai is not effected. In the mean time, a very normal citizen or a worker in dubai can spot signs of economic slowdown and introductory signs of recession everywhere you go in the city. In Dubai extreme job cuts have been made, international and multinational companies are downsizing and cutting costs by either sacking people out or closing branches or regional offices. Consutruction companies future projects have all been cancelled and all property related sectors are downsizing or closing down. Banks are suffering huge losses with all the people who took loans and cant pay them back. and the same story that happened in the US banks last year have issued loans for villas that are worth 20 million dirhams and sadly right now this villa is worth 10 million dirhams. and the bank has no idea where will they get the other 10 million dirham from... so imagine a whole system which is based on credit many banks in the gulf region, their ratings have been dropped. First Gulf bank rating has dropped to an extent that if you have money in there and you asking for it. dont expect to be paid immediately.. Hotels are empty.. Roads are emptier. see how much vacancies are in the property sector in Marina, JBR, all around dubai. Still dubai is doing better than many other cities in the world, but be true to the people... After all we all built this place... we deserve to know xdude can you imagine what will happen when the officials go public with the problems being faced by this place.. whtever hot money that is left here will vanish is minutes. they have to put up a brave front while grappling wth hte situation.. but trust me.. lot of s**t happening at this mmnt.. waelsalem
I totally get your point. But you think the public doesn't know??? each and every one of dubai.. either got sacked? or he is about to? or he is very scared about his non stable future now... or @ least he knows two who got sacked or companies that closed down.
You drive now and you dont see that much cars on the road. Malls are getting emptier... Go into any store in mall of the emirates.. if they had 10 people as sales.. now they are 3 -5 ... go anywhere u see cutting costs like anything...
The public knows.. and knows very well.. just doesn't appreciate not being told the truth. RobbyG O surely everybody knows. But if the UAE government confirms that on top of all the 'speculation'. Well you know the selling spree is really on...officially. They don't want that and they try to avoid that at all cost. By the way guys, I'm new here. Do you have a section where we can introduce ourselves or is this done, on the fly? I'm from Holland and hope to start a career in Dubai with an aeronautical engineering degree. Someone able to redirect me? brgds, BellaUK Has anyone's rent come down? I really hope mine does in the summer when it's due! Mahmoud04 I think rents must come down, its abnormal nowadays, the rent can never be 15% of the property value, hell that means owners get the property value back in less than 7 years, although I am sure half flats in each building is almost free, while you hear about instances where more than 5 persons live in on flat!!!!!!!! M. sage & onion
Would be interesting for the discussion if you posted say the registrations for Jan thru. Dec 2008. uaekid
LOL
Can't afford it dud, those stupid prices are ridicules . how could you sell a one bed for a over 1 mil, and the more stupid are the one who bought them…well I'm eyeballing a small 2 bedroom apartment in Dubai even though I'm from AD…it's going to be my summer kinky apartment, my own little secret ,whats what your mom is here for after all LOL dresden ^ You might want to work on your insults... maybe even learn to write english properly, dufus. No need to worry about my mom. Neither of my parents have any wishes to visit a desert filled with monkeys. Good luck with your apartment. I'm sure you'll have plenty of "kinky" paton men around to molest. Make sure you lube yourself up first! Cheers! (oh wait, you don't drink either) sage & onion
And now we have the Chairman of the uaekid fan club :lol: :lol: :lol: Stylinexpat I think prices in Dubai will continue to tank and they will tank just like the stock market tanked in Dubai. Prices are still way too high in Dubai and these days people don't have money to spend on a unit that comes with crazy yearly association fees. Has anyone here seen how much the yearly maintenance fees are on most of these new villas and flats are going for? Most people don't make enough money to pay that alone every year. In the next 2-3 months I would say prices will tank another 20% at the least from today's prices. dresden
I hope you don't give stock tips for a living! :) Dubai Knight
I happen to know Sage's tips on making chicken, beef and vegetable stock are excellent!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight sage & onion
Thank you DK :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Chocoholic I think you could probably walk into any of the sales offices and make a stupid offer on a property and they'd probably take it, just to make a sale. sage & onion
You are probably right at the moment. Dubai Knight
You need cash. No-one is going to get credit at the moment, even if you own the country...
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Knight sage & onion
Of course, that would be a pre-condition. arniegang even people with cash arn't buying because they know the market has still a fair way to go downwards. Dubai Rose Last month, I made an inquiry about a certain property for sale, and the saleswoman has been calling me and bugging me constantly since then. She dropped the price 3 times so far (in just about 37 days!!). She made it clear that she was dying to make the sale in order to keep her job! Felt sorry for her. But that’s all I did. Still waiting to buy. Time is apparently on my side!! . Chocoholic Oh yeah. Hang in there. Dubai Rose
That's exactly what I plan to do!!
Never thought that the property market would come crumbling down so fast!!
.. kanelli Geez, a year ago it was the opposite for one friend. The couple kept asking once in a while about a great apartment they wanted, and each time the agent kept raising the price, even though the unit was still available. I think they talked it down, but geez, they have still paid too much now! sage & onion
To be honest, the market is in freefall now RobbyG How can you tell? Looking at off-plan projects in Ajman and RAK, still no lowering of the prices. A few came back on the market. A year ago I received offers for the Dunes in Ajman, but recently the price was up for that same studio and 1 bed appartment. Not really experiencing the freefall yet. dresden
+1
Also love how the Gulf news front page has a nice article on the Dubai construction market is still going strong with many plans approved, and a little blurb about the UK housing market falling. LOL uaekid I think they should start promoting the ( the buy one get one free ) it will boost the market LOL in AD though you cant find a single bed , prices still going crazy. ironically it is 30km or so from dubai now ! Dubai Knight Abu Dhabi prices are still higher than Dubai and the availability is less. The rental market is crazy! :shock: :shock: :shock: Knight sage & onion
What is 30km from Dubai? RobbyG
AD.
Abu Dhabi
Anno Domini
Anti Democracy
Another Desert
Pick one. :wink: arniegang
Anyone who is thinking of buying or has bought in RAK or Ajman needs to see a doctor. RobbyG
Please explain. arniegang Put simply, if the developers especially the Dubai Inc ones are struggling, then that would be magnifed 5 fold in other Emirates. They were struggling to compete with Dubai when at the peak. RobbyG I understand your reasoning, but my research points out, that RAK and possibly Ajman both are more conservative in their growth profile of construction. As far as I can see it (and I might see it completely wrong, if so please tell me) the building boom in Dubai is far greater than the smaller (northern) emirates. The RAK authorities claim to be more exclusive by planning with less density and the same luxury with prices equalling properties in Dubai approx 4 years ago. Ok, things definately are changing. But what are the facts? If you can give me some reference that would be great. Keepin' my eyes open. By the way; If you buy a property, your not going to buy it at top momentum right? You wait until the moment of absolute fear comes in, then you have bargains. I think that moment may take another year or so. Red Chief
I read in the local media that rent in RAK has increased so much that is getting more higher then even in Sharjah due to shortage of property... RobbyG
If thats the case, then there is no 'crisis' in RAK to be seen anywhere.
It makes sense though, as they build less, the demand of these beachfront properties remains levelled, or slightly down (market conditions) although overall prices are still going up.
Also limiting the supply of freehold property for (off-plan) sale makes demand high. In RAK the developer buys back properties of investors and speculators at market rates, so they can list them again and make another profit on it as if it were (off-plan) new, though it really is resell.
Artificial prices! arniegang
Demand is the key issue here and the demand was always less than in Dubai.
No one can tell me that RAK etc has a higher demand than Dubai or anywhere else.
I dont belive for one second that demand is still there for these properties and as for the developers saying they will buy back at market rates :shock: They may well do, but it wont be at the rate the investor paid or expects and therefore puts the purchaser in negative equity.
People who have bought off plan in RAK can expect to be surprised that on completion their property is worth a lot less than they bought it for. This applies equally to off plan investors in Dubai too. Red Chief
That's right for buying sands (not built property) at least due to a big shortage of power supply there.
There are a lot of scyscrapers without power supply for months, even years in Sharjah.... RobbyG Offcourse in absolute numbers the demand for properties is higher in Dubai. I agree. Percentage-wise is another story though.
ROI are up 20 percent Year over Year and rents are up 150% a year for RAK properties, both since 2006. That significantly higher than YoY increases for Dubai.
I spooned up this article below about Property developers in Dubai buying back properties with 6 month fixed price guarantee. The one of the RAK developer that buys back at market rate slipped my memory. Will look for that link some more.
I also read a piece about RAK needing an (old fashioned) coal fired electricity plant to keep up with the energy demand for its utilities in the future. Not exactly 'green' if you ask me, for a thriving 'state of the art' infrastructure project. Red Chief makes a good point there.
Rents in Dubai are cooling off as we speak. I don't know for sure if rates are going down yet in RAK. Property supply/availability is lower, therefore it needs less absolute demand to keep the price stable.
Keepin an eye out.
update: uaekid
anti democracy !! here we go again.. well its locals are pretty much happy and on top of the hall world (I'm one ) free housing free med care free universities free lands tax free GOV salaries the lowest is 20,000 so what's there to complain or vote for and we got what we need and more with out asking for it 
their doors are always open for their ppl unlike you when the closest you'll get to yours is by waving a flag when they pass by LOL.
you keep your democracy for your unemployment offices back who got tired of you and brought you here.
And I love the royal family they are such a polite humble ppl. RobbyG Here you go again. I did'nt mean anything with it. It just fitted the letters A and D. Don't go that way all the time. Some things are not meant to be. Grow up kid. gLoBalTeCh all i can say is...its all because of cursing of people. we started sucking blood of people... pay high rent even for a small room, water tax, salik, etc. money for each and everything. when we forget the Al mighty, this senario would be the out come. We should not forget the history. we must learn lesson from the history arniegang
If you believe developers will buy back in 6 months at increased prices then you really do need to seek medical help.
The article you posted even explains how dubious it is and whether it is actually legal.
If you take the 3 developers from Dubai Inc being Nakheel, Emaar and DH they are struggling at the moment. Just take a look at Emaars share price - the 3 of them together are near on bankrupt. Why do you think they have sacked a total combined number of nearly 2500 staff.
If developers arn't selling properties now, do you really believe they will sell them for increased prices in 6 months !!!
Some people need to get a grip on the reality. RobbyG This is the second time you imply that I need a doctor. I don't need one, am perfectly healthy... you? Where do you get it from, that I believe the developers will buy back properties in 6 months. I don't care if they did that and I even share the same doubt you have. I'm just showing you the article. Informative only... Easy dude, I got my facts reasonably figured. No doctor needed here. dresden ^ Robby, I think you make some valid points. I took a drive by Ajman yesterday. A beautiful place with a lot of potential. Not congested (that can change), beautiful properties along the waterfront, and seems quite liberal. IMO, the VALUE in these properties far exceed many (not all) of those in dubai. Lets see: Pay a ludicrous price for a condo in Dubai... only to have the view blocked in by 100 other buildings around me. (Do they even get sunshine?) or Buy a nice property along the waterfront in Ajman? --> I have not done my price checking so I can't comment I think the latter is the way to go if you're looking for longetivity. If the price is right, the value will hold over time (of course it will rise/fall with economic situations). As an aside, one good measure of true "value" of a property is reflected in how well it's price holds (depreciation %). Hence most of the villa's are in a free-fall. They will bottom out somewhere near what they are actually worth. No Doctor's needed. I have my apple a day. Red Chief
Dear Dresden,
believe me It's not a place for you, at least as permanent appartment. You took a drive but I lived 4 years nearby...
You could be the only westerner in the building. The only shopping mall is far away from the water front, you could have a big enjoiment after switching off electrisity for 10 hours on summer season, even taxi drivers don't speak English at all...
The only attraction there is a famous shop near the Port's entrance... RobbyG
Another good (or should I say bad) point. Nevertheless the authorities claim they have several issues with these beachfront (second) vacation homes, as this affects the economy only about a few months in a year (when occupied). The rest of the year, its emirate local community has no significant income.
So they have plans to extend the utilities and infrastructure (read something about a light rail to Dubai International airport in the future) to deliver value for the locals and expats in a way they feel more 'home'. I think this 'new' emirates are going to follow the line of Dubai, be it with less contruction bonanza.
This all does not make an investment in RAK or Ajman a bad one. I think Dubai is the leader in that perspective. In 5 years time, those little emirates will have it all (broad utilities) and don't have to rely on oil anymore. In 15 years time its all over, for oil that is...
8) Follow the vision :lol: Red Chief
There have been a little changes in the infrastructer for last 5 years. Everybody was keen in constructing building, not utility...
At my point of view gap between Dubai and SHJ, Ajman, RAK has been getting wider for last 5 years... It's the main Dubai's attraction... RobbyG Like I said, they have plans to change that utility delay. Closing the gap in lets say another 5 years maybe? Red Chief Sorry, I was a little bit slow... It had been rather dark humour :? RobbyG
Ah now i see. Misunderstood. :wink: RedKite Hi, Just come across this site. i hear that property has dropped a great deal in value in Dubai. How much on average? RedKite The thread title says property's dropped 45 per cent. Is that general? Are any big projects that are now on hold or scrapped? Red Chief
Two months ago some company offered me 1000 sq. feet 1 bed-room (Green gardens, near Ibn-Batuta) at 900K. It looks rather cheap... RobbyG
Hi welcome to DF.
Property values declined approx. 8 percent in the last quarter of 2008.
macjul I am surprised that very few people have an understanding of real estate in general. Not enough questions being asked about maintenance and general up keep for the building they plan to live in or buying for investment. No questions asked of the quality of workmanship and material being used. Let alone design quality. All those factors determine the value and future of the investment together with location, infrastructure and accessibility. The market will correct itself in the very near future and buyers will start looking for all those qualities before they make a move. Even now I hear alot of complains about extraordinary high charges for upkeep and they are rising for owners of villas and apartments. The management companies in charge for the maintenance and staffing of those properties have no or little experience. The harsh climate in the summer is not helping either. What I am suggesting is, before I buy I would get professional expertise in determining what is a well managed and quality building. Having said this now the real buyer will come forward, not the speculator who only wants to flip the properties for maximum profit and no other concern. Now the market will determine the prices not the developer or speculator. RobbyG Good point you make. Thats the third thing I would care about when looking at property, next to the price listing and #1 locationnn. Maintenance for off-plan speculators is not a big deal. They sell the property as soon as a nice profit opportunity comes passing by. My guess is that half of the market is controlled by investor speculators, or maybe a little less. RERA is soon going to release a residential map that gives oversight in the property market prices by region. This will greatly enhance the oversight in rents and fees. Maintenance price indications shall be derived from this eventually, I think. I don't know how this is settled right now, but maybe this will become uniform in time. It is illegal in UAE to form unions for all I know, but there are groups of owners that have raised voices to resist against the increasing maintenance fees. They demand more clarity and oversight into the expenditure of these building maintenance funds. There are talks going to hand out a uniform residential visa that applies to all emirates in the UAE (excluding Sharjah??). This should deliver more investor confidence in the future. Sharjah is the only emirate where you are not able to purchase freehold property. Only leasehold. The ruler keeps the right to toss you out. Maybe that changes too with one type of residential visa... :happy1: RedKite I am in the UK. The talk over here is that Dubai property values have dropped 40 per cent. One thing is for sure. The UK is suffering a very bad recession. Woolworths and MFI bust. M and S closing stores. JCB laying off hundreds. Llanwern Steel Works putting men on short time. Stoke on the news , with plenty on 4 day week. Wedgwood Waterford closing factories and going down.It is horrendous!! So if the UK and other countries are like this, who can afford very expensive homes in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. According to a web site I've seen about visiting Dubai , millions of flats , High rise etc are being built in the UAE, ready by 2010. Who can afford them? How will families go to Dubailand on holiday , if money is short? They'll go to Spain. You need the rest of the world to do well , to get buyers for those homes. RobbyG 40 percent... I don't believe it...yet. By the way, if you say 40 percent decline...against what benchmark figure? Do you mean top level prices, or beginning of 2007? What exactly... I also spotted a website Dreamhomes from the UK that implied that property values were down 45 percent or so. Nah its all marketing tricks. I don't buy that. However there is confirmation from brokers and agents that properties are being sold below purchase value. This applied to the Bur(j) Dubai area. The Burj Tower investments were down 22 percent on average last month. Speculators bailed out with negative equity. Fear is building (no pun intended). uaekid 45 % no this is too low (at least for now ),I mean any developer or real estate agent will start by reducing the prices accordingly ! 5% ..10%..15% and so on , and I don't think it is that bad ! anyone can wait for a year for his real estate to be sold , they just have to reduce their expenses for now. everyone is expecting prices to go up slowly by 2010. and even by selling this low they'll brake even I think, bcz the opening prices were way way way too expensive but after all this is what business is all about $ but Dubai did make a mistake by authorizing building this much quantity randomly without future consideration and the verity of diff incomes to its residents.. Red Chief
The lowest prices are not from developers... Rich foreiners from different backwater around Dubai bought appartments a few years ago as investment or appartments for vacation. Now they have big financial problems in their own countries and so want to sale Dubai's property very quickly and rather cheap... sage & onion I think if the truth be known, nobody knows what the hell is going on in the market. macjul RedKite is asking himself the right questions for determining the market sentiment. He will start by analyzing who is the buyer, where is the financing coming from, and so on. He is right about the need for foreign buyers to absorb the high end luxurious properties, the local market will take some, but definitely not the majority. Still the biggest questions is financing. Where is the money coming from? Having said that, its true that some villas have been offered for say AED 6 Millions down from AED 10. However, that drop in percentage may not apply for all high end or middle range properties in good locations. Furthermore the market is too new, not established enough to make comparison to domestic and other markets with few previous sales data available. I would venture to say if someone comes with cash, that person will be able to negotiate favorable terms unheard of 2 or 3 months ago. Del
On average. Red Chief
The local market will take nothing. Westerners and another experienced rich people live hear for years paying 120K annual rent charges although freelance cost 900K 'coz they know that "sit on a powder keg".... RobbyG
You are not mentioning the 'house flipping' that has happened before these properties were even realised. Some properties have swiftly moved hands 5 times already.
The person who bought this 5-fold property at peak year ago, is now losing money big time. The developer together with the first and rest off-plan buyers of that property are long gone with profits.
It all depends at the moment when the actual property is bought. Thats a big difference and your break even point is long gone by now, unless your the initial buyer from off-plan Dubai 2002. Not many left I reckon.
With regards to income, the Dubai authorities are focussing on the high-end segment of foreign tourists and investors. Properties are not intended to be sold to the average Indian. You know how it goes in the UAE. Its the higher segment they focus on to become attractive long-term.
brgds bhomes The market of will get stabilise as the demand grows because of the short supply. sage & onion
How many villas do YOU actually own? naruto thank god finaly i will be able to buy a small house for my family RedKite I don't think that some of you in Dubai realise how bad the world economy is about to become.
Thousands are being laid off in the UK every day. That is all you hear on the news over here.. Look at the firms GONE down since about December:-
Woolworth; MFI; Waterford Crystal ;Wedgewood ; JCB [cutbacks and redundancies]; Ford Motors [ cutbacks] ; building companies ;shops closing galore.
Very soon , councils are going to lay thousands of people off. Banks are already doing so.
Therefore, UK property prices could fall another 20 per cent. So who do you think is going to buy all this property in Dubai , when westerners are losing their jobs wholesale? Who do you think is going to holiday in Dubailand, when the flights are much further and much dearer than Spain? The hotel prices don't compare with the Med and the Med has a far better climate and atmosphere.
We are talking of a major global recesssion here. I was checking Dubai out on Google yesterday and put "visit dubai" in as a web search. I found a site there, at the very top of Google UK which listed all the building going on in the UAE. It amounted to enough for about 5 million people at least !!
That was only Abu Dhabi and Dubai. The size of the projects is huge. A million people in one project.[ Waterfront Dubai, I think] Housing for 1.5 million on Al Reem Island in Abu Dhabi. How big is Palm Deira and Dubai Marina ?? All high rise!!
All of those flats and villas were going to be on the market by 2012. Well WHO is going to buy them all in a global recession? There is complete overkill on property in the UAE, looking from the outside. They have a TINY population of local people, yet they are building homes and shopping malls like there is no tomorrow.
It does not make sense. A 40 per cent drop from the peak prices is quite feasible if the property market is being flooded in a recession.
It is people from places like the UK that Dubai needs to spend money there. Well it won't happen as things are now. uaekid can someone provide me with an agency or a person with theses prices ? I mean the 45% or even 30%. my friend is trying to get a 2 bedroom in marina and couldn't even get a 15% !!! benwj
The best thing to do is walk around where you are looking.
But I agree, I havn't seen these sort on decreases yet. I think that the high profile places such as the palm jumeirah and jebel ali are leading the way and the rest will follow. sage & onion
It will take another month or so for the real truth to sink in, then you will see the prices tumbling as Landlords scramble to rent their properties. rudeboy i guess its a good time to buy in places where you have missed out on. but i think the prices will go down for a few more years. you looking at 2 years before everything sorts out. wouldnt mind having my own villa on the palm island, the lakes or even the jlt. guess got loads of time to get my cash ready :D sage & onion
Having seen how they have been built on the Palm I would not recomend purchasing anything there. rudeboy
i am not saying that i would live there. am just thinking that since i missed out on purchasing something there when the prices were low i should consider it now. i like JLT, jvs is a bit dodgy, motor city looks to be good and sports city too. lets see. already got my eyes on a 500,000dhs studio in jlt. but just waiting for the prices to go down even more. arniegang
Sage i think bhomes is some desperate person from Better Homes mate. He or she needs to get a grip that there is no demand for villa's and with the higher earning expats leaving DXB on a daily basis there will not be a shortage of supply for a very long time RobbyG
Arnie, whats the reason behind this in your opinion?
brgds sage & onion
Lets have your opinion as well Robby. RobbyG huh, I don't understand...what do you mean 'lets have your opinion as well' ? I'm asking you why the higher earning expats are leaving DXB on a daily basis? I can think of a reason, but if you know the facts, please share them with me! :king: ps: It is not, that the entire Dubai economy is crashing. That would be broadly covered in the media. Is it just an exodus of people that have seen it all, or is there a concrete reason for that outflow of high-earners... RedKite There are some people on this site not facing up to reality. The UK recession is getting more serious by the day. On top of all the lost jobs I mentioned earlier , more and more private companies are going bust or shedding jobs.
Now , even the public sector Local Govt Assoc says that 40 councils were going to create 7000 redundancies.
You seem to forget that you are only in Dubai to create an INSTANT , mega tourist economy from a very low starting point , over about 15 years.
What I see there is VAST overkill. It needs the people of the west to:-
[a] Holiday there in places like Dubailand.
[b] Purchase the villas and apartments.
Well, the West is hitting REALLY HARD times!! So how can people travel that far on family holidays ? They will go to Spain, instead . Taking a FAMILY on a plane as far as Dubai is very expensive.
Secondly, how can they purchase expensive property?
The slump will really hit in 2010 and 2011 as thousands of new flats , villas and apartments are completed.....flooding the market!!
By then there will also be far more westerners out of work.So how are MILLIONS of people from the west going to purchase property in Dubai? RobbyG
Thats exactly whats going on Redkite. You said it well.
Also this is a reason for the high-earning expats to stay in Dubai if there ís less work available in the West.
One of the reasons why high-earning expats are leaving Dubai would be the currency peg with the dollar.
If the dollar falls (which is inevitably going to happen despite recent rise against all other currencies) the Dirham is going to be less worth also.
For a Westerner earning his salary in Euro's, you have more buying power with Euro's than with dollars/Dirhams (keep in mind the currency peg 3.66 Dirhams per dollar) so this could make the EU currency stronger for some time if the depression does not erupt in the European markets.
There are signs though, that the Eastern block of the EU is pulling the Euro currency down and countries like Germany and us (Holland) are going to be taxed for that. We carry the bill with our growth patterns while the currency goes way down against the others, due to the malinvestments and unsound economies of Eastern EU countries (baltic states).
But, arniegang knows more. So lets what on that one... :lol: Stylinexpat Better Homesprices in Dubai are over inflated. I would not use the retail asking price of the units listed for sale by Better Homes to base actual market prices in Dubai. What people ask and what people actually pay are two different realities. Those looking to get what they want these days out of their units are either looking for buyers with cash to burn or people who have no clue about current market prices because those that go to the banks to get a loan and find out what Banks are actually willing to lean are in for a big shock :o Prices are headed down further, just go to any bank and see what their current lending requirements are for any new house you wish to purchase. bonk
There was a report last week (Xpress I think) of average 1500 visa cancellations per day. Even if that sounds high, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence. RedKite This is not just about currencies. we are talking of a GLOBAL recession here, which is only just starting. To have a NUMBER of top UK companies lay off workers or go bust, like they have over the last 2 months is unheard of. These are the welth CREATORS of the UK. Can you name a better, more iconic , BRITISH manufacturer than JCB ? I can't !! Yet they are laying men off!! So are Fords in Bridgend working short hours !! Barclays Bang lost a QUARTER of its value in ONE DAY last week. Don't you realise how serious it is? Sheikh Mansour of Abu Dhabi , who has a huge stake in Barclays Bank lost £440 MILLION in one day!! So even the Arab billionaires are being hit!! Yet, Dubai keeps building in the hope of drawing British, American and European tourists on LONG FLIGHTS to an expensive place in a global recession!! It does not add up!! Dubai is flooding the market with properties and wanting to attract world tourists ! They are in for a SHOCK!! Wait until 2010 and 2011. Where are the rich westerners to buy all this property ? The west is getting POORER!! RedKite Sorry for the typos.......Barclays BANG must be a Freudian slip!! xdude i had enquired with my landlord in Apr for buying out the apartment which I had rented in June 2.1 mil.. Now she is ready to sell it @ 1.4 mil.. Now thts quiet a drop in 8 mnths.. I am waiting.... :roll: RobbyG
How many times are you going to repeat the same essence? I think everybody knows that growth is going down. And a contraction of economies will take place, but thats normal. Don't freak out dude. You're acting like a chicken without a head.
We've been here before, and recessions are normal. This time, we have half of the world in recession all at once. This is just a correction. Were not going back to the stoneage!! You wake up Red flyer.
Yes, things are a bit bad. Yes, Englands seems worse off than the rest, but hey, we've been there before and governments are throwing money at it. Its called inflationary (phoney) money policy. Its a Keynesian thingy.
More money in circulation eventually makes prices go up. So those so called experts in the US and UK are making their currency run to the ground by devaluations. Good for exports you know!
Redkite, stop repeating that fear and loathing. Get a grip and see opportunities. Most people run behind the hoard when fear runs deep, but thats the moment when savvy people are going to BUY.
Every market has its return at one point. Timing is the issue we can't control. And prices...they are controlled by government printing presses and balance sheet expansions...unprecedented money creation to counter the deflationary forces in the private sector.
Get real 8)
ps; The only thing that should concern you at this point, is your salary.
If it doesn't keep up with the coming inflation boom (somewhere beyond 2010 I guess) you can't afford those property prices anyway after they have been inflated with phoney money.
Moreover, think about your legacy. Your children have to pay for the expansion of government balance sheets by foreign lending from China and Japan. They have surplus money with which they buy Treasuries and bonds from governments accross the world to fund this crazy policies.
I favor a strong contraction and back to normal. But unfortunately governments and politicians have to think about their constituens, so they seek quantative easing as a measure against firm contractions.
Basically its manipulating the free markets. :cry: uaekid It is in today newspaper ... 60% is the expectation of Dubai properties prices to go down... it's almost free :) RedKite Robbie G, It is you that needs to get real. I can tell you for a fact that we have NOT been here before !! Governments are having to bail out banks on a massive scale. Gordon Brown has to push billions MORE into Royal Bank Of Scotland and HBOS . Barclays Bank shares fell 25 per cent in one day last week. So WHEN have we been there before? Not in my lifetime and I am OVER SIXTY !! All of this banking crisis has been caused by inflationary property prices since about 2000. I have been saying in British Newspapers by letter since 2002 , that UK property prices were crazy......and they are even crazier in Dubai, because they have been building like there is no tomorrow. Who the hell do you think is going to buy hundreds of thousands of flats in hundreds of High rise buildings going up all over the place? Top companies in the UK and USA are laying off people because the banks are in trouble. The banks are in trouble because they lent 6 times salaries to LIARS all over the western world , who were encouraged to lie about their salaries by professional charlatans earning commission. It would not have happened if the LENDERS stuck to 3 times salary for mortgages. So houses that should have remained at £150,000 in the UK sold for £250,000, but the £100,000 extra was inflation, not actual VALUE. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of homes, and the ASSETS of the banks......based on inflated properties......were not REAL assets. America was worse. The most profitable lending was to the poorest people, the sub-prime market. Now there is a collapse there, followed by a collapse of the banks. Dubai is a house of cards, waiting to go. Whatever property prices are now, they are bound to be lower in a year or two's time when a lot EXTRA property hits the market. Don't tell me we have been here BEFORE. The banks did not collapse like this when Margaret Thatcher brought in monetarism in the Early Eighties, although a lot of companies went bust. This is different. Government.......Which is us ..the people , is having to subsidise banks to the tune of billions. Look at all those properties mentioned on that visit-dubai web-site when you put visit dubai into Google UK. There is Waterfront ; Al Reem Island; Palm Deira; Palm Jebel Ali ; Dubai Marina : Jumeirah Islands ; Lulu Island ; Sharjah developments ; Arabian Ranches ; Burj Dubai ; Saadiyat Island etc etc. Who is going to buy homes on that scale? The buyers have to come from the west. Then if the oil price rises again, flights to Dubai will rise, and Dubai is 8 hours from western Europe, not 2 hours like Spain ! macjul Lets see here; the salaries of many employees will be cut including allowances for school and housing. Which means some expats have to send their families back home, to save money. At the same the demand for housing will shrink, cause they need smaller apartments to rent, same goes for cars, schools, consumer products. Some high earning expats will have to leave the Gulf area, because they will be replaced by lower paid ones, read new workers being hired from softening economies from somewhere else with more favorable employment contracts for the employer. My guess is, that there will be a substantial number of companies being hard pressed to sustain current employment figures. There has to be a correction, or some companies will go under. Regarding the Euro, the Baltic states economies are too small to have a major impact on the Euro. On one to one the Dollar is steady to the Euro, both have the same underlying problems, with the Dollar serving a more competitive economy than the Euro. The Dollar will be under pressure in the future once the massive influx of funds being injected by the Fed into the system have to be absorbed One day they have to raise interest rates to fight off inflation. The ECB as well. Thus making investments in real estate expensive. RobbyG
RedKite, Ok we haven't been here before. I know. I've writing about this crisis since the collapse in August and yes its unprecedented. What I did mean to say, was that we are used to booms and busts. Its nothing new!
I congratulate you with your 60 years of life. Its an age I haven't reached yet, and I surely have respect for you and your experience in life. The thing that bugged my mind, was the fact you pointed it out more than once as I recall and the essence of your saying was not pointing in new directions. You know, like a parrot repeating the same thing. :wink:
But, reasonable as I am, I agree the economic outlook is worse than ever. I must give you additional credits for your above explanation of events. Its very accurate and exactly the way I see it happening. I have been writing Op-Ed articles for Goldprices.biz where I gave people my insights of the US government policies inflating its way out of its liabilities and countering the deflationary forces in the private sector.
As you know, Inflation is a creditors largest enemy. Likewise, it is an debtors greater good. Eventually when monetary velocity in the US and UK (for instance) picks up again, you'll see a rise in prices and for people that hold on to their property long enough, will see their nominal values return. Mind you, with the same dollar/pound worth less then before in e.g. Euro's.
The issue with the Euro is widely known, as the Union is still fresh. Outsiders believe that the Union is unable to control its members financial policies when all hell breaks loose, as is starting to get visible today. The Eastern and Southern EU members are having difficulty keeping up their economies and GDP figures. Also their debt is mounting due to high expenditures. What you see happening now, is the larger Central EU countries holding up reasonable well for now (against all others by comparison) and holding up some strength for the EU currency. The other members are pulling down the Euro, as they are expanding balance sheets and loans from the IMF etc. inflating our common currency. This is the weakness of the European Union. Its has expanded a bit to fast for others to join the free trade agreements in effect by its membership. Now my country for instance pays that price.
But the dollar and the pound are even worse off. The Euro is one of the stronger currencies available since the beginning of this crisis. August market fall made some of that strength dissappear into the worlds reserve currency, the dollar, but this is been seen by 'experts' as temporarily. The expansion of the FEDs balance sheet to 2 / 3 Trillion dollars is making sure of that. I have two outcomes for the US monetary policy happening today;
1. They inflate their way out of 50 Trillion dollars in government debt liabilities thereby debasing the dollar currency. (double digit inflation when the economy picks up again beyond 2010, resulting in higher prices for goods and support for current prices for real estate!!)
2. They US goes into Default. World chaos if you ask me. Can't even think of the consequences for all world economies.
Don't get me wrong. I sense whats happening out there. I'm feeling marginably real....tap..tap...yep.
The things thats bugging my mind, is people (your not the only one) going there the same way over and over again. I would say to them; I know!!! Don't repeat that what I already know! But then; You couldn't know I knew. So its all forgiven.
What bugs me upmost, is all the so called 'experts' that know it all. But they know nothing. So I started reading myself. I started investigating and I know now, that most of these leading world figures, don't know it either.
And again your right, this economic situation never happened before. Thats the excuse those political pundits keep saying for using that rotten Keynesian policy over and over again. Only to keep us at ease.
Its time for some people with vision in financial policy instead of pundits screaming fear. Don't you agree Red?
brgds, RedKite Robby G Goldpricesviz?? Not heard of that. I'll look it up . I put "dubai gold souk" into Google UK the other day and found this near the top. That gold souk is fascinating. I bet a lot are being tempted to invest in gold , with everything else so dodgy. Another possible investment is internet domains. Any interest in those in Netherlands ...or Dubai ? Why does your Government only use visithollandcom for your tourism, when only two provinces are called Holland? I call your country Netherlands , not Holland. In our phone book, you are Netherlands , and in the Times atlas and National Geographic atlas. Your car registration is NL , not HO, so why does your tourist organisation not use visitnetherlandscom , or even better, visit-netherlandscom , which is clearer. They should use it to supplement their existing domain. Think how many globally enter visit-netherlandscom when looking for tourism info. Do you know that the New Zealand Govt paid FIVE MILLION dollars for newzealandcom ? That visit-netherlandscom could be used for ANY Dutch business in fact. Must be better than money in the bank on very low interest rates. Yesterday, Royal Bank of Scotland shares fell to 12 PENCE after being £7 not long ago. The banks have got a lot to answer for!! Gold and domains must be a better bet at these interest rates. RobbyG
About my country; Internationally its known as the Netherlands.
We the citizens are Dutch, and not German (our neighbours) like many people think we are. We have 12 provinces. Two of them are linked to the name Holland. See for all 12.
In my country a Dutchmen or women is also named a Hollander.
Literally my countries name (The Netherlands) means Lowlands in english. Our nickname (Holland) is derived from that.
As you might imagine, it has something to do with....water.
As for gold and internet domains; Domains our out in my opinion. They were interesting during the 1990 - 2000 years. What money do you see in this?
Physical gold however, is used for protection or hedging against inflation or substantial devaluation of a paper currency. That is a must nowadays, especially when the dollar slides lower again against the other major currencies. bonk
Oh ... Is kaaskop not correct then? RobbyG
Yes that correct too!
Actually, thats even more applicable to me. My City of Alkmaar has the reputation of chees carriers and we carry the name: Kaaskop (Cheeshead).
Thats right Bonk! :lol: RedKite Robby G, If your tourism industry is marketed under visithollandcom , when Holland is actually only TWO provinces of the Netherlands, surely someone marketing using visit-netherlandscom would do very well? He could get all sorts of businesses to advertise on the site. Netherlands is the name of the COUNTRY , so surely, this is a fantastic business chance. I know Holland means "low land" . There is a Holland in Lincolnshire on similar ground. I call your country Netherlands ......not Holland. RedKite Regarding the usefulness of domains as an investment. I noticed when I entered "dubai gold souks " and found that visit-dubaicouk site, that no gold souk shops were advertising on that site, even though it was at the top. With an expensive product like gold, you would think that the Dubai gold souk shops would want to sell to the world over the internet, especially with gold being in demand! Why aren't these souk shops advertising on web-sites like visit-dubaicouk ? They could sell loads of items on-line or merely advertise the business. RedKite Sorry, I think I entered "dubai gold souk" , not the plural!!
Anyway, they [ gold souk shops ]are losing GLOBAL sales ! RedKite I have just spoken to a bank manager friend in the UK , who was in Dubai in December. He said that most projects were on stop. Was this permanent , due to difficulties ,or someting to do with Christmas holidays , in some cases? He reckoned that thousands of Bangladeshi workers had been laid off. What's the full picture ? What projects are on hold due to economic reasons? RedKite Robby G, You are in the Netherlands. What sort of work do you do ? Do you own properties in Dubai ? RedKite This thread sems to have gone quiet. What do you reckon of Dubai gold shops selling on the internet? I realise the traders naturally haggle over a deal, whereas the internet is fixed price. Unless you action something and set a lowest price on it. Is there a good Dubai auction site on the net? RedKite Heard this morning that Palm Deira was on stop . True or not? RedKite My mate's son, who had a job in Dubai as a building surveyor last year , was sacked before Christmas. They cleared his desk, so he returned to Scotland RedKite Re the gold, it was meant to be AUCTION something, NOT Action, although........ACTION , we need. RobbyG Can you please stuff all your questions in one reply, cause this is pointless and I'm not going to reply every message. So summarize please! Keep it clean. This topic is dwelling off point. Villa and home prices remember! RedKite Robbie,
Actually, Robbie, I put several different short postings up, thinking that different people..not just yourself.....would want to reply to some of the different queries. They are all linked matters, because they all concern business in Dubai and various aspects of it. They are mostly linked to property prices , just like villas.
Note that I only put your name on one question, because I thought that several others might want to chip in.
Anyway, no matter!!
1] What line of work are you doing in the Netherlands , out of interest, or is that a secret?
2] Do you have property interests in Dubai , by any chance?
3] What projects are currently on stop in Dubai ? [I thought that residents would have a better idea of that!]
4]Is Palm Deira on stop , please?
5] I wonder why gold souk shops don't sell on that site or on similar ? When I put "Dubai gold souk" into Google , the aforementiond site was near the top, so I had a look.
The Gold Souk could do tremendous business on the internet if they changed their ideas on haggling and embraced the internet. sage & onion
True. Dubai Knight
Yes, its been put on 'hold to allow the foundations to settle and bed in...'
Translation: We are skint and can't afford to pay the dredging company!
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Knight uaekid
the construction companies are asking for GOV support ! isn't it enough how much they profited in the last 7 years ? talk about greedy. arniegang The Govt wont support the Developers. What would be the point as there hardly anyone buying. , Besides which Dubai Inc is near on bankrupt. macjul Biggest problem here is transparency and good reliable flow of information to be a justifiable good, sound businessman and/or consumer. For example the project Deira is on hold already for a while . At least since before Christmas. I am not blaming anybody here, but in the real world there shouldn t be so much guessing and speculation about important business information. In the long run it will hurt the market, it will primarily attract speculators or other short term thinking adventurous individuals. Also real estate agencies and even banks located in the regions can not be fully trusted with their assessment of the market. Use common sense and good connection to some decision makers in key positions to get good information. I would venture to say in the fast moving, competitive world of today, places without a top notch information infrastructure will be left behind in the long run. zzzane I know a guy who works at Dutco as a manager for HVAC design and according to him, the situation isn't as bad as what everyone thinks it is. sage & onion
The guy you know probably works for BK Gulf, and if he is saying that then he is full of delusional crap. zzzane He works at Dutco Balfour Beatty.. sage & onion
OK if you say so, however the HVAC is normally handled by BK Gulf, that's why I mentioned it zzzane
Well, that's what he told me. I couldn't care less about him really since he isn't my pub mate. :) rudeboy
last i checked dutco and bk were involved in HVAC sage & onion
Thats great to know, thanks arniegang WS Atkins sent 200 home !! sage & onion
And at least they admitted it arniegang They couldnt hide it as there were 200 Landcruisers left at the Airport. sage & onion
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: RedKite Do you know that the ex editor / TV personality , Piers Morgan, has a high profile programme on Dubai .......called Piers Morgan on Dubai...on UK ITV on Thursday this week at 9pm.
He has a big 3 page article in The Mail on Sunday magazine on this 25/1/09.
He really talks the job up!! He quotes "Credit crunch? We never mention it !" He does not mention falling prices.
I reckon he was paid to do the programme and article. He spent time with Dr Sulaiman al Fahim , so a few UAE dinars might have come his way!! I read about him on . He has a lot of developments , in Mexico , as well as the UAE.
He asks Dr al Fahim how much is invested totally in Dubai . The answer is " The last estimate was £300 BILLION [sterling]
The article is very up-beat. So will the programme, I feel. Whether it is the WHOLE TRUTH , is another matter!! I look forward to seeing it.
Morgan says that two Londoners , Safi Qurashi and Mustapha Nagri ,
have invested in the island called England, in The World Islands.
He says " Safi left Britain 4 years ago having LOST EVERYTHING in a failed internet company. Now, thanks to a series of SHREWD PROPERTY DEALS, he IS IN A POSITION TO PAY £43 MILLION for what amounts to a lot of sand in the middle of nowhere".
Well , that does not ring true. If you are bust one day , you are not worth £43 million 4 years later....even in Dubai !! He wants to build
"100 luxury villas" on the island. all with a "very English feel" which HE BELIEVES COULD EVENTUALLY GENERATE TENS OF MILLIONS OF POUNDS IN PROFIT!!
Well! Good luck to him......but the logistics of building 100 villas on a bare sand island , well out to sea , are bad enough!! Very costly!!
That story does not look too good in this financial climate. RedKite What's occurring ? Can you get ITV in Dubai ? Will they broadcast Piers Morgan's programme on your UAE channels, I wonder? He will be very bullish about Dubai this Thursday. I wonder how Safi and Mustapha are faring now? I like entrepreneurs, but how do yo go bust one minute ........and have a £43 million business 4 years later? I'd love to see all their books! RedKite Arniegang You say Dubai inc is near on bankrupt. Is it that bad ? Sheikh Mo is very wealthy , is he not? Besides, Abu Dhabi has BIG money , so they surely won't let Dubai get into trouble? The problem is getting CUSTOMERS from the west to buy all the expensive property. The west is suffering job losses daily. Getting tourists in is going to be a major problem too. Dubailand will need millions of kids and flights are long and expensive. If India were to get richer, a lot would come from there. The USA is a LONG way from Dubai. Yanks will go to Disney instead. One surprising fact I learnt from , is the Visitor profile. On the bottom left hand column , you click the bottom one. It says that 27 per cent of Dubai visitors come from RUSSIA !? You reckon that's true? The rest of Europe COMBINED is only 7 pc, including UK, Germany, France, Italy.....the lot! Does not seem accurate, that? What is the true breakdown of visitor sources to Dubai? RedKite Just checked . The 27pc from Russia is on "World visitors to Dubai" on That means 1 in 4 of ALL Dubai visitors comes from Russia ! Can that be true? How many roubles are they spending in Dubai? It must be HEAVEN if you come from parts of Russia to Dubai ! I hate extreme cold !! sage & onion
Used to be plenty of Russians around, not so many right now though. arniegang
The largest group of visitors/tourists to Dubai are the Brits. Probably the lowest group this year, as the pound hit a 30 year low against the dollar last week. xero_ lotsa russians here in uae. even in my university... arniegang
Dubai Inc consists of the government owned corporations like Emaar, Nakheel, Dubai Holdings (Dubai Prpoerties etc), DIFC etc etc.
The value of these corporations are currently valued at near on nil. DIFC in particualr is close to bankrupcy as is DH,Emaar and Nakheel. Emirates Airline also part of Dubai Inc is struggling.
There are rumours abound that Dubai Inc will amalgamate the 3 Master Developers they own into one. They have already started this process with their 2 Finance Houses Amlak and Tameer (?).
Shiek Mo isn't as wealthy as you might think. Yes he is on our scale, but in comparrison to say Bill Gates he is a not a major wealth player. Gates net worth is 5 times that of Shiek Mo.
The governments income and GDP is going to struggle during 2009 despite what we read in the papers. Dubai will struggle to achieve 1% growth this year. Analysts who are realistic are prediciting negative growth however this year, and will put Dubai technically into recession. uaekid LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rudeboy
and what experience makes you say that? not a rude question or anything :P just wanted to know where you getting this info from. because UAE is full of speculators and rumour starters. sage & onion
Arnie, I would be interested to know what is on your wish list for Dubai? RobbyG Arnie...were listening :pirate: uaekid I'm telling you guys, he is one of the ppl who couldn't make it and now taking it out on every thing around him. to solve this recession you need cash, and the country has plenty of it, end of discussion. there is no need to be all stressed out about it, it is not helping. yes Dubai got fuc8d badly but AD will support it until it get backs on its knees that for sure, I mean they gave some sort of loans to industrial countries and bought a couple of banks in a couple of days so I'm sure they can handle Dubai reboots, but the thing with AD is that it is not a flashy or a show off. And for the privet businesses being bankrupt, what's new, as they say, they come and go. Again I was reading one report about the recession from an expert say that 65% of the companies world wide are taking the wrong approach to face this crisis ! I don't know what he meant by that. And for shk MOH being broke, who really cares, it is not like he is the one paying salaries out there. sage & onion
I don't think you know anything about Arnie, if you did you wouldn't make such a statement. I will be interested to read his response. uaekid me too kanelli
Wrong yet again uaekid. :lol: uaekid what is all the this about this Arnie ? what, he use to be a minister somewhere before ? well I'm still waiting . regardless, he got nothing to add or say but stereotypes ,you know things that you wana hear , the usual bal bla bla how could you even conceder Listening to what he said, shk moh is not wealthy !! not that I care, but we all know it is trash talk . it is just a stupid comment coming out of frustration for some reason Seriously ppl like him are taking other member and ppl who Listen naivety as an advantage, I just cant help it. just like you kanelli. RedKite Arniegang, You certainly seem to have forthright views on the Dubai economy. Thanks for sharing them. I'm not clear. Do you live and work in Dubai at the moment? Other expats don't seem to share your very pessimistic view of the Dubai economy. I will also be grateful to read Arnie's response.......and even your work experience if you would share it with those of us who are in the dark. I don't know if you are overstating the remarks about near bankruptcy. It seems to me , mind, that Dubai has gone WAY overboard with the AMOUNT of development that Nakheel and Emaar , in particular , are carrying out. Whatever problems they have now, they are going to FLOOD the market with apartments, flats , villas etc between 2010 and 2015. The sheer scale of development that I have noted on that site is unbelievable. Dubai Marina and Waterfront are huge. Add on Palm Deira, Palm Jebelali , The World , Jumeirah Gardens etc and all the rest and they have a LOT of property to shift. Of course, they have to finish building it first, which is very costly. This recession is going to be the WORST SINCE THE WAR. Even the UK was said to be almost bankrupt. The Govt here has had to bail out the banks ....plus industries. The banks....GLOBALLY.....got into trouble through OVERPRICED ,INFLATED PROPERTY VALUES. People were BORROWING 6 and 7 times salary , instead of the normal 3 times salary, to buy homes. Now if a million extra lose jobs in the UK and every body else SPENDS LESS, property prices should drop another 20 per cent in the UK. America is worse!! This property bubble has caused the mess. If an average house is valued at £250,000 instead of £150,000 , how much of the BANK'S MONEY does not truly EXIST?? Devalue the houses and you devalue bank assets big time. Of course car workers , TV makers etc etc are all caught up in it. So who in the WEST is going to flood 8 hours on a plane to go to Dubailand on holiday , when they can take the kids to Eurodisney or a theme park in Spain, for a BETTER CLIMATE , LESS COST, LESS HASSLE, SHORTER FLIGHTS FOR KIDS etc etc? The main thing in Dubai's favour is that Abu Dhabi is very wealthy.......but it has a spendthrift brother in the family !!!?? Even Abu Dhabi, with Al Reem Island , Lulu Island and Saadiyat Island , which I read about on , is expanding greatly , population-wise, so the UAE needs about 5 MILLION extra people to buy up everything.......or 5 million extra holidaymakers who will BUY PROPERTY. Somebody has to buy it all. Piers Morgan has his BULLISH Dubai programme on ITV tonight. You all need to see it....but is it true? What if he'd interviewed Arnie ? RedKite Typo ....FLY not FLOOD on a plane! Another thing. Dubailand is for kids. MOST should come from Europe. Well , European kids are off in July /August , when Dubai is too hot for them. Families with kids want Christmas at home. So when do they have SCHOOL HOLIDAYS to visit Dubailand in acceptable weather for kids? Americans won't take kids to Dubai , when they can slip down to Florida or California. Look at the distance from the USA! South East Asia is closest , but they are not wealthy enough. The BIG population centre within easy reach is India/Pakistan. But have they got money to afford Dubai? The idea of a huge theme park for kids ........on top of all the rest.....in a place as remote from Europe as Dubai is a bit flawed. European people like the easy going nature of the Med too, plus the pleasant climate in Spain, France etc in AUGUST, during school holidays. They would have to take kids off school to go to Dubailand in Autumn or Spring. sage & onion
Once again I have to state that you know nothing about Arnie :!: RedKite Arnie, Bit contradictory to say the Brits are the BIGGEST visitor group to Dubai, whilst they are not now. That suggests visitor number have dropped like a stone. Besides , that World Visitor Numbers item on suggests that Russians make up 27 pc of total, whilst ALL of the rest of Europe equal 7 pc. Arabs from outside UAE are huge in number too. Something is wrong with someone's stats. arniegang
Would everyone please look at the stock prices of the listed companies that form part of Dubai Inc, therein lies your answer.
Kid, you dont know me and you are unwise to speculate that i am one of the people who "couldn't make it".
In contrast i have made it and i made it well. I was one of the first in May 2002 that enbraced and shared the same vision of Dubai. I bought 4 properties, 2 on the Palm Jumeira (shoreline), 1 in Phase 2 Marina and a cheeky little purchase in JBR.
I sold off 3 in mid 2007 and sold my "home" in Al Majara (phase 2 marina) in October last year.
I wont go into figures but my investments in Dubai have served me well, very well.
I am a realist kid, i have been buying and selling property for some 25 years. I know when to buy and i know when to sell.
This has been discussed to death on here and i am dammed if i do and dammed if i dont. When i was saying buy buy buy the majority were sayin "ah yes but what if" and in 2007 on here i openly predicted the crash at the end of 2008/early2009 everyone then said "no one knows". Look at my post history and you will read the discussions. I even PM'd those i knew well and told them to not buy.
To me it was a crash waiting to happen. In the UK we have a established property market complete with its lows and highs. In my 25 years i have seen the 2 major crashes of 86 and 92. Experience is the key issue here, and Dubai was a new market with no past performance.
The Emirates growth was to rapid and it could never sustain the level of growth it experienced. you are now seeing the results.
The property market and tourism was always going to be the 2 key markets that would sustain Dubai's economy. Expats and labour come and go and the infrastructure in dubai could only ever cater for the mass influx of workers.
Dubai's economy was and is too dependant on this factor and like i said earlier you are now seeing the outcome. Dubai has always considered itself "exempt" from outside forces. It was wrong and unwise to base an economy this concept. It is now paying the price.
I am not being anti dubai far from it, i love the place and i've made buckets loads of cash from it. But at the end of the day people have to get real, and realise that in the short term ie the next 2 years Dubai is going to slide further downwards. Today is only the tip of the iceburg believe me, there is worse, far worse to come sadly.
As much as i and millions of others have the greatest respect for Shiek Mo and the great things he has done, it must be remembered that there are forces out there he has no control over, and sadly those forces will continue to push Dubai into a downward spiral in the short term because the government does not have the means to stop or control it. arniegang
The figures quoted by Dubai Tourism (Government) confirms that the largest group of tourists are by far the British. It is not my opinion.
Oh and by the way that website consists of cut and pastes from other websites. In fact it still maintains that buying a property there will give you 50% growth and 15% return on investment :shock: RobbyG
Say Arnie, since you've sold all your properties including your sea-side marina apartment...Do you still reside in Dubai? Or did you left without remorse and settled somewhere else (Germany perhaps?)
ps; It may very well be said again; what we've been seeing, was just the beginning of the property market collapse.
Arnie and his 25 years of experience are spot on if you ask me. I've been following the market since 2002/2003 and know a thing or two by now. Arnie got his facts lined up very well. arniegang
Robbie i have never lived in dubai. I had a 3 year residency permit until last september, but i chose not to live in Dubai.
My place on the marina was my holiday home. However my decision to sale was purely mathmatical. I sold for 2 million Dhs.
With the pound taking a battering by the dollar that 2 million bought me £400,000. I have it invested in Dubai at a fixed rate of 5% tax free. That gives me £20,000 a year interest. In turn this will buy me 9 holidays @ 10 days a time to stay @ nearly all of the 5* hotels on Jumeira Beach. No management charges, no DEWA bills, no grief - heaven. RobbyG
Nice trade. Too bad the pound isn't supportive for your money to flow back to the UK. But a 5 percent return isn't all that bad either momentarily. Good for you.
What was your basic profession btw before becoming a self-made man?
brgds RedKite Arnie, You have certainly been an astute judge of Dubai property. As the old song "The Gambler" goes........"you've got know when to held 'em, and know when to fold 'em !! Don't count your money 'til the dealing's done!!!"" A lot of us hang on to investments too long. My problem is shares etc. I tend to buy them and leave them, whereas I should have given more time to the task. A lot of people have been really caught out since last October. I have far too much on my plate. That's my problem. I own a large UK property but never ventured abroad on purchasing. I have been saying repeatedly that the UK market was overpriced since 2002 and had several friendly arguments over it. It was crazy what people were doing. The TV is full of get-rich-quick property programmes with dozens doing "buy-to-let" .instead of "Location! Location ! Location!" , they need a TV prog called "Repossession! Repossession! Repossession! " now !!! The frightening thing about Dubai is the SHEER VOLUME of expensive property that will soon hit the market...........and the FACT that THOUSANDS of buyers have to be brought in from about 3000 miles away into a fairly alien culture !! Most Brits would choose Spain , Italy, Greece or France FAR AHEAD OF DUBAI for a holiday home! If you live in SOUTHERN EUROPE...on the Mediterranean, why would you choose an INFERIOR climate and restrictive Islamic lifestyle for you holidays? So buyers must come from NORTHERN Europe! But the Mediterranean is closer and better for them too. This came home to me when I walked the Bur Dubai side of Dubai Creek . If that was Italy, France or Spain.........there would be a row of pleasant pavement cafes along the Creek where the parkland is located on that Bur Dubai side. People would enjoy a beer or a pernod whilst sitting there enjoying the view and watching the world go by. In Dubai.....YOU CAN'T !! So why would most Brits pay for an expensive 8 hour flight instead of cheap 2 or 3 hours? There are some wonderful places on the Mediterranean and in the Canaries. The weather in the Canaries is about the best in the world. Dubai has oppressive heat and humidity for months...........and who goes on holiday to go SHOPPING MAD?? You can't take too much back on a plane !!! TheChoosen Even Egypt is better, street bars and you can enjoy sitting at/on the road, smoking your shisha, fighting with the traders, watching Russians...LOL uaekid
stupid me I thought it is a global recession.
Again my realistic friend if you are as good as everyone think then you shouldn't involve the stock market prices to what is happening now, you should know that the stocks prices were not the real value of those companies not 5 years ago not now. beside this is a global recession and Dubai is not in isolation from the world it is in the heart of it so it is natural this is all happening not bcz of any reason inside the country.
Hey one of my family did 5 times the real estate business you did, it does not make him an expert and I'm for sure is not impressed by your business like others here, you are a tiny broker in the businesses in Dubai.
That said, I was going to discuss the issue further with you since everyone is looking up to you in DF but after you clamming that the UAE Government does not have the means to stop or control the downward spiral I realized I'm talking to the wrong person . RedKite Arnie, I see you lived on the front at Dubai Marina. I've been there but don't know the area intimately. Did you ever meet a guy from Wales called Nick who bought a nice villa or property near the entrance of Dubai Marina in 2006 or 2005? He is about 51 and has wavy brown hair with a touch of grey. He is about 5 feet 9 inches tall and quite fit-looking , reddish in the face due to the sun. Ever bump into him? He has a yacht there and several properties . I've been told he bought at the wrong time after selling a pub chain in Wales. He was a very astute guy. He started from nothing in his twenties and sold up whilst a Dubai resident to avoid tax. Skyper everything went down since november 2008.. prices were going up and down unstable.. arniegang
Kid
If you re-read my article i clearly pointed out that there are forces at work beyond Dubai's control, and that is the global financial crisis.
With all respect to your family they have only been buying and selling property in Dubai post mid 2005, my reckoning makes that a whole 3 1/2 years. I dont consider myself an expert i never said i did. I did say i have been buying and selling property for a long time in Established markets.
I see no point in responding the share issue, you can look up on-line why the value of Emaar has almost tumbled to nothing and its share is almost worthless. All i will say is that yes i know the stocks were overvalued 5 years ago. So was the property market in Dubai my friend.
Fair play to your family member who made 5 times what i did. But for every one of us that made money in this time, there will be 000's more who now stand to loose money, a lot of money.
I can understand your reluctance to acknowledge Dubai's precarious financial position. If you want to believe that Dubai has the means to deal with this then that is your perogative. I am not going to take time to convince you otherwise, because theres nothing i can say that will make you see the tree's through the wood. We all have an opinion and i respect that you do not agree with mine.
Please ponder this though Kid. In the current recession please tell us by what means, the Dubai government has to stop the current crisis in the banking industry? How the government will stop the daily exodus of those that have lost their jobs ? How the government plans to encourage people to buy properties, that a/ no one can afford, b/ borrow the finance c/ restore confidence for people to buy property that is currently devaluing by the day and d/ what help the government will give to companies (other than dubai Inc) affected by the global crisis. arniegang Kite Totally agree with your post above mate. The reason i never invested in European markets like Spain is that the property market runs a simialr parallel with the UK and the US really. The euro was weaker back then but i and many others always considered the euro to be a serious contender to the Brit pound. I never invested in the states for the same reason really re the dollar/pound. If i were to be honest i picked on dubai because i loved the country so it was a bit personal. I was fortunate to be on holiday on 15th May 2002, the day it was announced that that "freehold" would be granted. In that week i visited Emaars sales office and was basically sold the dream. The deciding factor was how cheap the prices were 600k. In relative terms to the UK it was cheap on a really cheap scale. The same week i bought a 1 bed in JBR @ 395k Dhs and on my next trip in June i bought 2 shorelines for 695k Dhs. The deal was a gift on all 3, 10% down now, 20% over the next 3 years and 70% on completion. I was like a kid in a sweet shop. Over the next 3 years the pound strengthened against the dollar so my property price were actually going down in Value. The only difference i and others have with those that are in deep s.h.i.t is that some of us did not need to borrow. Those that have bought within the last 2.5 years that have had to finance with only a small deposit are now in negative equity. Yes they have been able to offset their purchase with rental income, but now even that is in jepody. Ultimately their assets are going to liabilities. arniegang
Robbie
Quite the contray mate. The weak pound/strong dollar was my in my favour. In April i would have converted back from 7.9 Dhs to the £pound. In December i converted at 4.3 Dhs to the pound.
In effect i made an extra 35% just on the exchange rate. RobbyG You did a great job investing in Dubai, so I hear. At the right time and in the right places you made a fortune. Excellent succes story Arnie. Did you always work in property development/brokerage firms? Or is it something you do on a side basis, next to a 'regular' job back in the 80's? RedKite Arnie, I agree with you on your opinions. So you were quite lucky in 2002. Happened to be in the right place at the right time. You could not have timed it much better by buying in 2002 and selling in 2007. TIMING IS EVERYTHING!! What were your buying prices in Sterling in 2002? Not familiar with dirham rates back then. The guy I mentioned called Nick in Dubai Marina. I take it you've not come across him ? He moved out in 2006. He has bought at least 11 properties to rent in 2006 and 2007, so his timing looks totally wrong. What sort of percentage would he have lost by now if he bought in 2007? He had sold a pub chain in the UK and made sure he was a Dubai resident to avoid tax. He sold the chain for £28 million sterling , paid back the borrowings , leaving about £12 million to his name. If you buy properties there, can you repatriate the cash as Sterling in the UK if you sell as a Dubai resident , or do you have to keep it in a bank in Dubai whilst a resident ? I know they have British banks like Barclays out there. RedKite You say you converted from Dirhams to Sterling in Dec 2008. Did you have to leave that money in Dubai , or have you been allowed to bring it back to the UK ? Is there any tax if you sell a Dubai property at a profit , then take the money out of the UAE and back to UK? RobbyG
Investments in Dubai are tax-free investments.
The money Arnie made, he can take back to the UK at any moment in time. Problem is, the Sterling is falling like a rock and the dollar is in strong demand as the worlds reserve currency. That makes Arnie's decision to invest the money in Dubai Dirhams (pegged to the dollar) a very good hedging strategy. He collects 5 percent on that strategy a year and is not exposed to weakness of the pound sterling.
He should however remain awake, as the inflationary policy of the US government might show dollar weakness in a later stadium around 2010 and beyond. That would be the time to pull the money out for maximum value for your pound.
If the UAE economy continues to grow and the dirhams appreciates against the dollar (terminating the dollar peg) in the future, he might simply stay where the money already is invested. On the other side of the coin, when the UAE governments liabilities to real estate investments trusts and SWF's causes the Dirham currency to weaken further (seen by more price increases for commodities and food/energy), it might be time to invest in an economy that uses a more experienced monetary policy with greater restrictions on inflation.
I was gonna say the Euro, but I better keep my mouth shut as more trouble is coming from Eastern Europe's nations, causing more IMF help and more inflation of euro's. RedKite Robbie,
So there is no block by UAE banks on taking money out of the country? Other countries have done that in the past. Of course, Barclays are in Dubai . They are recovering now after a calamitous share price drop. They shot up this week .
Royal Bank of Scotland shares were 14.5 pence each last Monday, after catastrophic drops since last October. They are 22 pence each tonight , so that is a nice 50 per cent increase in a WEEK!!
I only bought 5000 shares. I wish it was 50000 now, but I was afraid of taking the risk. RBS shares were £7...YES SEVEN POUNDS ...each just over 15 months ago.
So , even though they have had to be bailed out by the Government, I think that the HUGE SHARE PRICE LOSS has been overdone. I think they could go up quite a lot even in a recession. They are changing the WHOLE BOARD, who made the stupid decision to buy the Dutch Amro Bank not that long ago. That was the BIG catastrophe , added to sub-prime lending and the general housing market.
I could have run a bank better than some of these "EXPERTS" . What a load of *ankers [ not Bankers........a later letter of the alphabet ] the bosses have turned out to be!! Yet they get MILLIONS in BONUSES!!
CRAZY!!
Arniegang and Robbie. What do you think of RBS shares? Have the drops not been overdone?
As I say, I only stuck in £725 for 5000, because they are down to a penny share. The previous Friday, they were 12 pence at rock bottom.
They are going to run a TIGHT SHIP now , for sure!!
They are closing in less profitable countries. I have a feeling those shares can go up a LOT!!
Could be a GOOD TIME TO BUY RBS SHARES!!
Before they were split 3 for 1 for Amro, RBS were over £20 ....yes TWENTY POUNDS a share !
I should imagine that some patriotic Scots......investing in THEIR OWN BANKS OF RBS AND HBOS , have lost their LIFE-SAVINGS since last October!
Many Scots nationalists would have every penny in those two banks, I bet!!
NEVER, EVER PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET!! RobbyG
I start to wonder if you really are 60 years of age. Cause your reasoning for stock market investments and use of CAPITAL letters is pointing at 20 years of age...!!!
Anyway, you know how it works; Results from the past offer no guarantee for future profits.
Like you said, unprecedented crisis, so all historic results were actually inflated.
If the banking system is to be regulated without the common leverage. Bank shares will never reach the same 'value' as before. Having said that; the US government is probably going to set up a BAD BANK, which will have funds for troubled assets worth about $2000 to $4000 billion US dollars. This might revive some shareprices of the financials probably... Nucleus Arnie, what you think of properties in Abu Dhabi? macjul Bad Bank has not yet been approved, due to the public outcry of savings Wall Street ass, they in turn being so arrogant and ignorant by taking $20 billion bonuses despite running all the financial institutions into the ground. I myself will probably change my mind by thinking let start all over with a clean system and let them fail, securing the deposits, move them to new institutions with a clean record and management. No taxpayers money for bonuses! I dont have the answer. but we are getting frustrated with those selfish arrogant bankers. WSJ and NYT cover the current mood in the States together with the comments by their readers quite accurately. arniegang
I dont really follow the market in AD, sorry RedKite Robby,
I wish I was 20 again!! ?? I use CAPITALS for emphasis , that's all. Why the fuss? You cannot shout in print . A physical impossibility !
I mention RBS because they are now a penny share. Yet how can they go bust? Brown is from Fife and Darling's from Edinburgh....BOTH SCOTS!!
RBS was THE BANK of the Scots [ Get the meaning of the capitals??]
Millions of patriotic Scots are losing LIFE SAVINGS by being shareholders in RBS .
Brown and Darling will BUST A GUT to keep it private, so that new, better management can run a tight ship and build it back up painfully and slowly.......so that SCOTS DO NOT LOSE EVERYTHING!!
If the Scottish investors lose everything and the bank is TOTALLY nationalised........IT WILL BECOME AN ENGLISH BANK ,NOT A SCOTTISH ONE, because 50 million of 60 million in UK are ENGLISH.....only 5 million are Scottish ! Royal Bank Of Scotland OWNED by English people? That won't suit many Scots.
Scotland will blame Brown and Darling for the fiasco.....AND LABOUR WILL LOSE SEATS AND POWER IN SCOTLAND !! A CATASTROPHE for Brown, Darling and all the SCOTS WHO RULE ENGLAND FROM A SMALL BASE in Scotland !!
Don't you see, LABOUR SCOTS, hold a disproportionate share of UK POWER!! ??
Scots Labour Party will want to cling to that power , not ANTAGONISE Scots voters!!
SCOTS WILL FLOOD TO THE SCOTS NATS PARTY!
Brown and Blair will be hoping that FROM A SMALL PRIVATE BASE, RBS will gain in profits . They will then hope that RBS will repay the Govt gradually.
They will want Scots investors to regain some of their money. Many Scots will have been almost wiped out!!
You can guarantee that kilt-wearers will have savings wrapped up in RBS and HBOS !! They are THEIR NATIONAL BANKS!!
Scots are VERY PATRIOTIC!! RobbyG
I understand.
If you really want to express yourself, you don't necessarily have to use CAPITALS, as this is more like screaming. You should consider using the "apostrophe" to emphasize a text or double meaning.
Repeated use of capitals looks like shouting and panic like behaviour. Hence my replies. Nothing personal my friend.
As for RBS. Its like some sort of Belgian national share as Fortis Bank was, right? Its tough out there, I'm feeling with ya.
On Seeking Alpha I read some analysts reasoning of the pound going parity with the dollar down the road. Its almost 1:1 with the Euro as we speak. However, the dollar parity seems very pessimistic!
I wonder how bad the UK's economy really is. Lots of toxic investments not yet on the corporate balance sheets...2009 wil clear most of the clouds for sure. RedKite Robby, You say that capitals "look like screaming". I disagree ! That is only in the mind of the READER, not the writer . WHY should they "look like screaming" ? It's crazy!! The printed word.........whatever its size, does not emanate ANY sound, so why does reading capitals upset you? It is not logical!! I wager that when you pass a huge advertising hoarding ......with MIXED upper and lower case phrases , as they do in advertising , that you do not say........"That upsets me !! That poster is SCREAMING at me? I bet you hardly notice the various letter sizes on a 10 metre poster or hoarding !! Think about it! This is a PSYCHOLOGICAL matter. A reader should look at his OWN mind, not that of the writer ! Why is it that the reader cannot read VARYING print sizes ?? Why does it disrupt you and your perception? NO noise comes from the printed word, even if it is 2 metres high. Does the HOLLYWOOD sign in large capitals upset people psychologically ? RedKite I am not a Scot, so I am not tied emotionally to RBS. But the Scots are 5 million out of an UK 60 million, with 50 million in England. Yet Scots have been ruling the UK disproportionately for years under Labour. Blair, Brown, Darling.....all Scots. If RBS is not nationalised , it can climb back up a fair way. The board who bought your DISASTROUS Dutch Amro , are being sacked , and new people brought in to run the bank frugally. You mention "toxic" . Well over-valued property in Dubai was part of that malaise. Property was inflated almost everywhere as people borrowed 7 times salary. I have been preaching UK fall in house prices since 2002. It was ALL CRAZY!! I reckon they will fall another 20 per cent. RobbyG As for HOLLYWOOD. Thats a mediasign. Media screams to be HEARD, you know! The TV goes louder when the break arrives. You got my point. :D Its in the quality of the writer to express himself without losing his audience. Therefore the newspaper doesn't allow them, as well as many fora around the world. I mostly skip em, to be fair. Ask someone around you, what they think about CAPITALS IN EVERY LINE OF TEXT I WRITE.... No point in that, is there HighFlyer? :wink: RedKite The trouble with the pound is that it is a small currency compared to the dollar and euro, allowing to financial speculators to manipulate it.
I see that southern European countries are now called PIIGS. They are Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain [ PIIGS]. They cannot keep up with northern Europe , so the strong Euro is causing them a problem.
Shoppers are flooding in from Eire / Southern Ireland to shop in Northern Ireland. It must be hitting their exports to the UK.
The main trouble with the UK as well, is that banking is such a MAJOR part of the UK and London economy. Finance is the biggest sector.
That is another reason there is trouble. Bora Bora Wow, this thread went from the decline in the price of villas in Dubai to banking and cyber etiquette. RobbyG Yep, way off target. The only aspect that lines up with depreciating villa's is the currency aspect. RedKite, open a new financial thread if you like... sage & onion This is a more up to date version of current problems arniegang
Landmark properties have no expertese other than b eing a large estate agency group in Duabi. Personally i wouldn't take too much notice of their predictions.
They cant be that smart as they still have 3 offices open in the Marina selling probably 1 property a week between them.
Interesting to note they are trying to protecting the Villa market, which in all reallity is going to be hit the hardest with the exodus of expats. sage & onion
Don't say that m8 :cry: arniegang soz matey thats the reality of it. The group with the highest disposable income are the first in the queue for the chopping block. This group also happens to be the only group that come close to even affording villa prices. Mate it is of no consequence to you anyway. You own it so the value has no relevance to the Sages. Irrespective of villa values, your home is a paper loss or a paper gain. Anyway even if god forbid you lost your job you still have the means for a residence visa. You are one of the fortunate ones that can ride this through Nucleus
not really, at the moment. arniegang
I was directing my comment to Sage, not you uaekid
and what diff are they from you ? uaekid
and what diff are they from you ? arniegang
well.............. put it this way
Some of us have taken our head out of our **** and some (mainly Dubai Estate Agents) still have their heads lodged so far up their ******** they cant get it out. They will eventually see the light.
The real estate agents in dubai, are akin to a car dealer that is trying to charge more for a 2 year old car with 50k on the clock than a brand new one. Nucleus
I know. I'm saying there is no residency visa for property owners, I hear they just coming up with 6 months renewable visa for property owners. sage & onion
You hear or you know? DubaiInformationSite acutally this trend is going to continue through 2010 before turning back around. real estate fundamentals do not support even today's valuations despite the 40%+ correction. read the morgan stanley report on dubai real estate, it is quite alarming to read. frankly dubai is still way overvalued. just look at the USA, even manhattan is experiencing a decline - something one thought would never ever happen in this lifetime Sunil Nucleus
I hear, but it is from a reliable source. 6 months renewable visa should be available soon. Red Chief
I read that inf. as well.. arniegang I understand Emaar are still sponsoring 3 year investor visa's. sage & onion
This is correct although I believe it is only for people that have paid for the property and have the Lands Department Registration in their name. Chocoholic All investors have to have their apartments/villas registered with the land department. I've just done mine. bhomes There are so many families are dependent on the real estate market. I hope Dubai buz again to its maximum. arniegang
Better Homes
why dont you buzz off and do some real estate work in the real world.
Geez how desperate are they
:roll: sage & onion
:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: vera.chandler when the prices are going down... is this a right time to invest in freehold??? Expert answers expected from property field. Vera. RobbyG
Offcourse there is an optimum moment, Vera.
Its called 'the bottom'. Just time 'your' bottom and jump on the bandwagon.
I hope you do your homeowork properly, cause Dubai property market is one of the volatile in the world. So make sure you don't need the money anytime soon after buying.
Other than that, good investing ;) deadlife
Yea, but who has that kinda money
Whoever has got the money is too afraid to risk it now sage & onion
This is certainly the truth today, however I wonder for how lomg? RedKite Robby.
You talk about the "bottom" of the market. The global recession is getting worse, with more bail-outs in the USA. Today it was said on BBC News that Texan BILLIONAIRE , Sir Allen Stanford, who has a SMILE [watch those boys who have big smiles !!!!] from ear to ear ...is involved in an $8 BILLION DOLLAR FRAUD!!
He is connected somehow to New York fraudster Bernard Madoff
[ aka Madoff with the money!!].
Apparently, Stanford has been taking totally false promises to his many investors.
He was putting MILLIONS into English and West Indian test cricket. Now they do NOT WANT TO KNOW HIM !!!
You have plenty of "friends" if you have money!!!
What has this got to do with Dubai ?? EVERYTHING!! It is symptomatic of a WORLD-WIDE CON BASED ON INFLATED PROPERTY VALUES!!
So many " mega-rich" people , globally, are on IMMENSE BORROWED MONEY!!
For example......is Donald Trump going flat out to finish his "Trump Tower" on Palm Jumeirah?? OR IS IT STOPPED?
Just look at the situation. It is getting WORSE globally, not better. Dubai has an IMMENSE amount of unfinished building work. So, by 2012, there will be a VASTLY INCREASED amount of property flooding the market in Dubai.......whilst the rest of the world is STILL suffering. So Dubai property MUST FALL over the next 3 years.....maybe longer!!
THE CUSTOMERS MUST COME FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD!!
Anyone who buys NOW is a FOOL!! The Dow Jones FELL 300 points tonight. CNN says 46 of 50 American States have HUGE DEBT problems. California owes billions!! The US economy has HUGE problems ! IRELAND HAS HUGE PROBLEMS!! The UK has redundancies galore!!
DUBAI IS NOT IMMUNE TO ALL THIS!!
If Dubai is going to ATTRACT TOURISTS.......then MAKE FLIGHTS AND HOTELS MUCH CHEAPER!! MAKE IT AFFORDABLE TO MORE PEOPLE!!
Then , there is a chance of the shops doing more trade , as well.
Lots of Dubai visitors , NOW , are businessmen......not tourists!! Business is masking tourism in Dubai. Take away the BUSINESSMEN and where does it leave Dubai? RobbyG When will you learn to READ PROPERLY? I gave a 'sarcastic' advice to Vera of 'timing her own bottom'. Never did I say we currently experience a bottom in the property market, let alone the stock market. READDD with Triple D. ps: How many more times are you going to tell us the world is on the EDGE. I know how the economy stands. I read it every day myself. :wink: RedKite Come off it Robby!! Your posting does NOT READ as "sarcastically" as you infer. You tell her to "time her bottom and jump on the bandwagon". You say tthere is an "optimum" moment called the "bottom" . Of course there is!!! Then you say "good investing". You INFER that one can invest SOON, as long as you do not need to sell. I would say " WAIT UNTIL 2011 AT LEAST" . Then review prices!! The stock market REFLECTS BUSINESS MOOD!! If the Dow is still FALLING....and it fell 300 points today, what does it tell you about American business ?? IT IS IN TROUBLE!! TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE LIVED FOR TOO LONG BEYOND THEIR MEANS!! SPENDTHRIFTS CREATED ON THE FEEL-GOOD FACTOR OF HIGH PROPERTY VALUES !!!.........TOTALLY FALSE VALUES!! Don't worry, there will be a knock-on effect in Dubai due to MADOFF : AIG ; LEHMANN BROTHERS ; RBS ; HBOS ; SIR ALLEN STANFORD ET AL THE WORLD IS FULL OF SMART-SUITED, SHARP-TONGUED , CONSTANTLY SMILING CONMEN , CHARLATANS AND IDIOTS!! GIVE ME A GRUMPY HONEST PERSON EVERY TIME!! RobbyG Let me explain it very simplistic for you: step by step



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