- Quote:
- Saad Khalid, 23, told a Brampton courtroom he accepted responsibility for his role in the domestic terror plot to detonate bombs outside the Toronto Stock Exchange and CSIS headquarters, as well as an unnamed Ontario military base, in 2006.
.....
Khalid was arrested in June 2006 while unloading what he and fellow alleged conspirators believed was two tonnes of ammonium nitrate, according to an uncontested statement of facts entered earlier.
The fertilizer was supposed to be used for peaceful purposes. Really .
- shafique wrote:
This numptie is just another Tim McVeigh wannabe. Or perhaps a better comparison would be with the Columbine High School massacre kids and similar attacks since - attention seeking nutters. Only those other kids actually slaughtered their erstwhile friends.
Cheers,
Shafique
I disagree. I wouldn't compare 18 armed men with two tonnes of ammonium nitrate as being 'another [group of] wannabe[es]'. Clearly, if the authorities would not have known of their attacks beforehand, they would have been the most devastating (in terms of casualties) terror attacks (minus 9/11) in the Western Hemisphere.
But I agree with the terrorist. He wasn't crazy - his actions can, in part, be blamed on the texts and teachings of the religion he adhered to which calls for perpetual warfare against unbelievers and to strike terror into the hearts of unbelievers because they are not adherents to that man's religion. shafique
- freefromrats wrote:
- shafique wrote:
This numptie is just another Tim McVeigh wannabe. Or perhaps a better comparison would be with the Columbine High School massacre kids and similar attacks since - attention seeking nutters. Only those other kids actually slaughtered their erstwhile friends.
Cheers,
Shafique
I disagree. I wouldn't compare 18 armed men with two tonnes of ammonium nitrate as being 'another [group of] wannabe[es]'. - shafique wrote:
They wannabe'd like Tim McVeigh - and they failed. Numpties.
Tim was a terrorist and these were wannabe terrorists.
7 of the 18 arrested have been aquitted. This numpty is the only one who has pleaded guilty.
- Quote:
The 2006 Toronto terrorism case refers a series of counter-terrorism raids in the Greater Toronto Area that resulted in the June 2, 2006 arrest of 18 alleged members of a purported Islamic terrorist cell plotting a variety of attacks against targets in Ontario, Canada.
Authorities said that "the internet played a large role in the suspects' planning".[1] and to date seven of the alleged terrorists, including one originally deemed to have been the "ringleader", have been released, while one juvenile has been convicted but released for time served,[2][3] and a man has pled guilty to intentions to cause an explosion
So the alleged 'ringleader' has been released.
And we see that this follows the same pattern - big media hype, and when facts are uncovered, it is less clear-cut (at best) and probably all hype (at worst):
- Quote:
The arrests, initially lauded as a blow against an al-Qaeda inspired cell of radicalized youth, later became steeped in controversy. The roles of two informants were made public, amidst allegations they "perhaps provoked" the youths to make militant statements.[5] Mubin Shaikh and another unidentified man had been paid a total of $4.5 million, and were granted legal immunity to "knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity" and asked to act as "moles" in the group, leading to accusations that they had "urged them to act, then sat back and counted [their] cash while the others went to jail".[6][7]
All mouth and no trousers - seems to be a recurring theme with you rats ;)
But this quote is telling:
- Quote:
John Thompson, an analyst with the Mackenzie Institute, summarized the young suspects stating "These are kids at a transition... unsure of their own identity...They're just young and stupid. If you're 17, bored, restless, you want to meet girls - hey, be a radical."
Cheers,
Shafique shafique More evidence that rats has overlooked.
- Quote:
But as a judge in this Toronto suburb prepares to release the verdict on Thursday in the first trial of a member of the Toronto 18, as the accused have come to be known, the group has taken on a less sinister cast.
Charges were dropped this year against seven of the defendants. And evidence presented at the first trial suggests that the group was long on inflammatory talk about plots but short on the means and methods to carry them out, and that it was aided — and perhaps provoked — by paid police informants.
From the first terrifying charges outlined by prosecutors to the gritty, often comically deflated details that have emerged in court, the case of the Toronto 18 seems to fit a well-established pattern in terrorism prosecutions. Whether the result of trumped-up charges, conflicting demands of intelligence agencies or difficulties of trying cases where evidence is withheld by governments looking to protect their sources and methods, numerous terrorism trials in the United States and Europe have similarly foundered over the years.
This month, for example, a London jury dealt a blow to counterterrorism officials when it convicted three of eight defendants of conspiracy to commit murder but failed to reach verdicts on the more serious charge of a conspiracy to blow up seven airliners with liquid explosives.
While no expert observer is willing to forecast this week’s verdict, many agree that the Toronto 18 may be more a gang that could not shoot straight than Canada’s first serious homegrown terrorist threat since a group of Quebec separatists kidnapped a British diplomat and kidnapped and killed a provincial cabinet minister in 1970.
“There was certainly a portrait drawn of this being a serious terrorist cell involving a large number of individuals who had bloodthirsty objectives,” said Wesley Wark, of the Munk Center for International Studies at the University of Toronto. “We didn’t get a chance to assess those claims until this trial. Then things became instantly much murkier.”
and the above is from September last year:
'almost comically deflated' in court, I think is a better phrase than 'all mouth, no trousers' !! :)
Of course, those who wish to believe Fox News type coverage won't let facts get in the way of their views! ;)
And to top it all off, the same article states that the paid informant (who bought the guns used in the camps) also considered the group numpties:
- Quote:
Whatever its motives, the group was able to attend both camps thanks in part to Mubain Shaikh, the police informer, who was paid nearly $300,000 to infiltrate it. Mr. Shaikh provided a vehicle to transport the participants (it was wired by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and participated enthusiastically in the most incendiary discussions. According to a defense filing related to another suspect’s case, he provided the 9-millimeter handgun used at the first camp (a claim not disputed by prosecutors). He later purchased a rifle and ammunition at the request of the ringleader.
Mr. Shaikh, who pleaded guilty in July to threatening physical harm to two 12-year-old girls, was by far the most colorful witness at the trial. But he frustrated the government. Mr. Neander repeatedly clashed with him over his view that the group, including the defendant, were not any sort of threat.
“It was obvious to me from Day 1 that I didn’t have to keep too much of an eye on them,” Mr. Shaikh testified about the younger members. “They were sheep. Nonentities.” He described the apparent leader as being “a few fries short of a Happy Meal” and declared his plans to be merely a “jihadi fantasy.”
Cheers,
Shafique freefromrats
- Quote:
- 7 of the 18 arrested have been aquitted. This numpty is the only one who has pleaded guilty.
Hey, if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit, right?
- Quote:
- So the alleged 'ringleader' has been released.
I don't know which one was the ringleader. Perhaps he was the one who ordered 6600 pounds ammonium nitrate?
- Quote:
- And we see that this follows the same pattern - big media hype, and when facts are uncovered, it is less clear-cut (at best) and probably all hype (at worst):
Yes, well thank you for the cut and paste job, but you seem to be overlooking the minor detail that these men (at least some of them) were caught unloading THREE TONS OF AMMONIUM NITRATE !
That's of course ignoring the fact that one man has plead guilty to participating in a terror plot with the intent to cause an explosion. Nice attempt at spin, but the facts show that at least some of these men were plotting to carry out an attack against Canadian targets.
Copy pastied snippets won't cover up the mound of explosives materials these men purchased and were caught red handed unloading. But hey, you're totally free to ignore the smell of three tons of ammonium nitrate. shafique :lol: What part of the last article I posted confused you rats? Was it the fact that far from 18 armed jihadists, we have a bunch of numpties who were entrapped and egged on by a police informant paid $300,000 (who says they were numpties). It was the police informant who provided the pistol for gun practice and paid for the rifle, and who talked up the 'jihad' - the numpties that followed seemed to be more interested in playing boy-scouts. As for the fertilizer - there was no such thing, it had been substituted by the authorities. The numpties had been stung - there was no ammonium nitrate. You seem to think there was - so yet another example of thinking things are different from what they actually are! But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a Fox News report? Cheers, Shafique mehreen I remember all of this drama. The street that I used to live on in Toronto, my son's friend's brother was arrested for simply doing nothing. A family friend of mine told me that one of his cousin's son was arrested as well. His cousin's son's last name was Gaya. He originally wanted to memorize the holy book of Quran. His mom told him, "son, first study, then memorize the Quran" ... Right after that he was just at the wrong place and at the wrong time with some of his friends.. and bam! He has been in jail since. Guess what he did while he was in jail (and still it)? He memorized the holy book of Quran fully, within 2 years. Amazing story. Allah (SWT) found a way for him to memorize the Quran. freefromrats
- Quote:
- As for the fertilizer - there was no such thing, it had been substituted by the authorities. The numpties had been stung - there was no ammonium nitrate. You seem to think there was - so yet another example of thinking things are different from what they actually are!
Ah, but the switch-a-roo by the Canadian authorities does not change the fact that these Muslim men thought the material they ordered and were caught unloading was actually a key component for making high grade explosives.
I can understand your insistence in downplaying these embarrassing facts. One juvenile was found guilty by the Canadian courts and another suspect has confessed to taking part in a terror attack with intent to set off an explosion. Fake explosive materials or not, these cats thought it was real and would have gone to use what they thought was actual ammonium nitrate for their terror bombings against Canadian targets.
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- shafique wrote:
It is just amusing to see the trolls revert to form and shoot themselves in the foot (I understand they have large feet, which spend a lot of time in their mouths!)
I see that the facts that this incident was more hype than fact is not going to change those who believe Fox News - when the one doing the entrapment says the kids were harmless, it's interesting to see rats still trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Cheers,
Shafique
The facts are there for anyone to decide for themselves. What is not in dispute is that three tonnes of ammonium nitrate was ordered. The shipment was delivered and some in the group were caught unloading what they thought to be a key component in high grade explosives.
One man has plead guilty to plotting a terror attack with intent to cause an explosion (with the ammonium nitrate the group purchased). I understand that you wish to ignore these facts. Fair enough, it's not like individuals who were viewed as 'numptees' before have ever successfully carried out violent attacks. Moreover, when you have a group of 'numptees' egging each other on along with three tonnes of explosives, nothing that leads to violence could ever possibly happen.
What on earth were the Canadian authorities thinking when they swept in and arrested these guys? They were just talking about carrying out violent jihad and happened to order a whole lot of explosive materials. jeesh. shafique At least the Canadian justice system doesn't believe the headlines and sticks to the facts. If you want to believe that some kids entrapped by a police informant are not the numpties the police informant says they are, then it would appear that your prejudices mean more to you than cold, hard facts. If you bother to read the facts now, rather than the initial headlines, you'll see that there is a gulf between the hype and the reality. The main person talking about violent jihad was the police informant, the numpties were more intent on playing boy scouts and keeping warm! Cheers, Shafique shafique
- freefromrats wrote:
The facts are there for anyone to decide for themselves. ...
What on earth were the Canadian authorities thinking when they swept in and arrested these guys?
It appears the Canadian authorities wanted to get some return on the $4.5m paid to Mubin Sheikh and another informer.
- Quote:
Mubin Shaikh and another unidentified man had been paid a total of $4.5 million, and were granted legal immunity to "knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity" and asked to act as "moles" in the group, leading to accusations that they had "urged them to act, then sat back and counted [their] cash while the others went to jail".
As I quoted above the same Mubin Sheikh characterised the kids as numpties - but hey, he's rich now and I guess had no incentive to lie in court.
Check out this article:
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070212_140696_140696
It transpires that Mr Sheikh is a shrewd Canandian business man of Egyptian extraction - ebonics would be proud! (And Mr Sheikh was partial to 'chemical stimulants' in his youth - see article linked to below.. and admits to snorting cocaine whilst 'undercover' ;) )
And check out this quote:
- Quote:
But two years later, even Shaikh admits "political objectives" were accomplished through the sensationalist announcements, and that perhaps "the case is not as strong as suggested".
Note the words 'sensationalist announcements'- this is not to be confused with 'facts' rats ;)
Cheers,
Shafique shafique interesting response rats. Speaks volumes. ;) Cheers, Shafique freefromrats Sorry, I couldn't read your posts through three tons of ammonium nitrate and a confession to plotting terrorism with an intent to cause an explosion (presumably using those three tons of explosives). (that, and I'm not always online). Carry on. shafique
- freefromrats wrote:
Sorry, I couldn't read your posts through three tons of ammonium nitrate and a confession to plotting terrorism with an intent to cause an explosion (presumably using those three tons of explosives).
Did you look up the word 'entrapment'?
What part of the explanation of the police informant (who incited the kids to violence) that the kid were 'harmless' confused you?
Was it the initial headlines which have been proved to be as credible as your other theories? There was no ammonium nitrate, there was not al-qaeda cell, there was just one (now) rich guy who provided the authorities with some numpties.
Never mind - as I said before, 'must try harder next time'. There are really some terrorists out there - perhaps next time you'll present their cases rather than Fox News headlines which have already proven to be more hype than substance. ;)
Cheers,
Shafique freefromrats shafique's not going to like this :wink:
- Quote:
- A 22-year-old man who pleaded guilty in a homegrown terrorist scheme has been sentenced to 14 years in prison.
Though Saad Khalid wasn’t the leader of the so-called Toronto 18, which allegedly planned to storm Parliament, behead the prime minister, and set off bombs in front of several targets including the Toronto Stock Exchange and CSIS headquarters, Ontario Superior Court Justice Bruce Durno called the crime “vile” and said the defendant’s degree of responsibility remained “fairly high.”
“This was not a spur of the moment offence,” Durno said in delivering his judgement. “Canadian society relies on balance and not bullets.”
Khalid pleaded guilty in May to one count of participating in a terror plot. The judge granted him seven years credit for time served, which means that he may only serve seven more years depending on when he’s considered eligible for parole. The judge left that decision up to the parole board. Defence lawyer Russell Silverstein said his client was pleased with the sentence and would not appeal.
The 2006 RCMP and CSIS investigation ended in the arrests of 18 individuals in the GTA and the seizure of apparent bomb-making materials.
Seven of the 18 people arrested have since had their charges dropped, while a youth member of the group was sentenced in May to two-and-a-half years after a judge found him guilty of taking part in a terrorist organization. Because of time already served, he was released.
The others still accused have yet to stand trial.
The judge was knowledgeable of the facts to the case and correctly sentenced a jihad terrorist to a lengthy prison sentence.
Only one man knew all the details of a deadly explosives plot designed to cripple the economy and unleash mass carnage, terror and destruction in downtown Toronto.
That was Zakaria Amara.
On Thursday, the 24-year-old Mississauga man, regarded as one of the linchpins of the so-called Toronto 18, pleaded guilty in a Brampton court.
It was Amara who built the remote-controlled detonators by hand and made numerous treks to a local library to research ways to procure ammonium nitrate.
And he mustered $4,000 in cash to pay for three tonnes of the fertilizer, earmarked for truck bombs.
Members of the Toronto 18 planned to use three U-Haul vans filled with fertilizer bombs. One parked outside the Toronto Stock Exchange would carry at least two tonnes, enough to bring down the building and three surrounding blocks. Another truck would be parked near the Front St. offices of Canada's spy agency. Glass would shatter into the streets, cars would flip and roads would be torn apart.
And the third bomb would go off at a military base somewhere along Highway 401, between Toronto and Ottawa. To maximize the destruction, Amara wanted to place metal chips inside the bombs.
Amara bragged that just one of the three bombs would be comparable with the 2003 bombing in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which killed 35 people and wounded more than 200.
And he was emphatic that the attack, which his right-hand man dubbed the Battle of Toronto, would be bigger than the London subway bombing of 2005, which killed 56 people and injured 700.
If they got their act together, maybe they could launch their attack on Sept. 11, 2006.
"It's gonna start kicking ass," Amara told his second in command, three weeks before his June 2006 arrest during a massive police sweep that netted 14 men and four youths. "It's gonna be kicking ass like never before."
Amara's confession in the landmark case is a major coup for prosecutors at the helm of one of Canada's largest terror trials.
With his mother and wife looking on, Amara pleaded guilty to participating in the activity of a terrorist group and intending to cause an explosion that was likely to cause serious bodily harm, death or damage to property.
According to an agreed statement of facts, Amara recruited people to join the group, helped organize and lead a terrorist training camp, created a few remote-controlled detonators and purchased three tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertilizer destined for truck bombs.
To understand the blast effects, prosecutors told Superior Court Justice Bruce Durno, the RCMP Explosives Disposal Unit conducted a test with a single tonne of the fertilizer in September 2008. A 2,230 kilogram steel shipping container about 20 metres from the bomb site tumbled 360 degrees and was extensively damaged.
Investigators began homing in on Amara in 2005 and built up an extensive case against him that included surveillance video, electronic intercepts and a surreptitious search of his home. Also key to the case was evidence from two police agents who infiltrated the group.
In December 2005, Amara helped organize a jihadi training camp in Washago, Ont., which was attended by police agent Mubin Shaikh.
Potential recruits, from Scarborough and Mississauga, played paintball games, ran obstacle courses and underwent firearms training.
Amara videotaped a co-accused delivering a speech urging attendees to wage war on the West.
By February 2006, a car probe captured Amara saying he had built the "first radio frequency remote-control detonator."
Weeks later, he was observed by police using a library computer to research ammonium nitrate, nitric acid and rocket fuel.
By the end of March, there was a rift between Amara and the other alleged ringleader, whose name is protected by a publication ban because he is awaiting trial.
Amara continued with the bomb plot. A second police agent, Shaher Elsohemy, infiltrated the group in April 2006, saying he could help Amara obtain chemicals.
After months of fine-tuning his "devices," Amara showed the agent a wired circuit board and explained it could be called from anywhere to set off an explosion.
In May, police conducted a surreptitious search of Amara's home and found two circuit boards attached to battery packs and a bomb manual, which included handwritten lists of chemicals and supplies.
On June 2, Amara paid the agent for the fertilizer and assured him two of his men awaited delivery at a Newmarket warehouse.
After his arrest, police searched Amara's home and car. Among other things, they found jihadi documents, satellite photographs of the Parliament buildings and maps of roads around Parliament Hill, and a video of roadside bombings and the execution of western soldiers.
They also found a memory stick with a message by Amara for his co-accused.
"It seems like everything is going to happen near the end of September," Amara says in the message, which was played in court. "I don't think I have anything else to say except `God willing.'"
Lawyers return to court Oct 20 to set a date for a sentencing hearing.
shafique As posted before - it's a good thing that the one numpty is off the streets. Interesting to compare the intial hype with the fact though - thanks eh. Cheers, Shafique event horizon It helps to read the article, shafique. The jihadist sentenced to prison in my last post was a different guy from the jihadist who was also sentenced to prison in the OP. shafique My bad - it's good that the entrapment rounded up two numpties - my previous comments stand - better off the street than causing harm to themselves and others. The millions paid to M Sheikh seem to be yielding some results - two confessions so far. Cheers, Shafique event horizon Yep - he was just some kid talking about Jihad entrapped by the police and set up by an informant.
- Quote:
- It was Amara who built the remote-controlled detonators by hand and made numerous treks to a local library to research ways to procure ammonium nitrate.
Nothing to see, move along. Just some kids talking about peaceful interior struggle. shafique
- event horizon wrote:
Yep - he was just some kid talking about Jihad entrapped by the police and set up by an informant.
Agreed. One more numpty off the streets and a now rich police informer.
As I said, they need to get some value from the millions they paid the guy to entrap these numpties.
Cheers,
Shafique shafique You see, all this discussion is indeed fruitful - you've finallly come round to my initial argument that these are just McVeigh wannabes (and not good ones at that) - who were entrapped by the now-rich informer. I'd be livid if I were a Canadian taxpayer - but hey, that's just me. ;) Cheers, Shafique event horizon
- Quote:
- It was Amara who built the remote-controlled detonators by hand and made numerous treks to a local library to research ways to procure ammonium nitrate.
Just some kids talking of peaceful interior struggle.
Nothing to see, move along...... event horizon
- Quote:
- It was Amara who built the remote-controlled detonators by hand and made numerous treks to a local library to research ways to procure ammonium nitrate.
Nothing to see, move along. shafique Numpty follows instructions on how to build a bomb and is entrapped by high paid informer. Epic fail on numpty's part - and I agree, nothing to see but an expensive conviction of a McVeigh wannabe. Cheers, Shafique event horizon What is this entrapment you are talking about? He wasn't ordering ammonium nitrate and building detonators to blow fish out of the pond, was he? shafique Did you not read what the police informant did before receiving his millions? He brought guns to a weekend getaway, incited the numpties with Jihad talk etc - then pointed the finger, pocketed the millions and laughed as he was relocated in Canada. He also worked with the authorities to set up the sting with the 'ammonium nitrate'. It's all in the reports linked to - at least the ones that reported the facts rather than the initial hype (to be fair, the hype was generated by the Police etc). As I said initially, numpty young Tim McVeigh wannabes were entrapped -if it weren't for the paid informer, they'll probably be causing more harm to themselves than others by posting inane posts on the internet or playing video games. ;) Cheers, Shafique event horizon My bad. I suppose I misread the article when I thought it said Amara (the dude who wasn't the informant) made the detonators by himself and scrapped up enough of his 'own' money to buy what he believed was ammonium nitrate.
- Quote:
- It was Amara who built the remote-controlled detonators by hand and made numerous treks to a local library to research ways to procure ammonium nitrate.
And he mustered $4,000 in cash to pay for three tonnes of the fertilizer, earmarked for truck bombs.
You're totally right. Without the informant, this guy wouldn't have been able to do any of that. Of course, he also whipped the men into a frenzy by fabricating the texts and teachings of Islam where it says to wage perpetual warfare against unbelievers. Without the informant to fabricate passages from the Koran and hadith, these men would never have (incorrectly) thought that Allah and his messenger call for violent warfare against unbelievers.
Good point. shafique Well, we should indeed thank you for bringing this story to our attention and allowing us to compare the headlines with the facts. As I said, the millions paid to the informer who incited and entrapped these numpties at least has resulted in two convictions so far. And you are right - any numpty can follow easily found instructions on the web on how to make detonators etc, and you are also right that some people share your views about Islam (just like some people do believe the world is flat). Cheers, Shafique event horizon