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Time Conventions Paradox


RedKite Mis, You've said something about TIME there that I have always disagreed with Mathematically and logically. You have called 12 NOON .....12 PM, then called 7 in the evening 7PM . How can that be logical ? 12 NOON MUST be 12 AM , because the hour before it is 11 AM and the hour after it is 1 PM and the evening time is 7PM. 12PM MUST be midnight.......but so many people call midnight 12 AM !! How can that be right . How can 11PM be followed by 12AM then 1AM !!??? I see that basic arithmetical ERROR all the time. It does not make sense does it?? It was the same with the Millennium . The NEW Millennium started on January 1st 2001....not January 1st 2000!! Yet so many celebrated a NEW MILLENNIUM in 2000 !! The year 2000 meant that TWO MILLENNIA WERE COMPLETE ON Dec 31st 2000....not on Dec 31st 1999!! You have not scored a century in cricket when you've hit 99 . So how can a Millennium finish at the end of 1999 ?? The figure 2 on the front of 2000 convinced all the mathematically inept............and there were MILLIONS.....that we were in a NEW millennium. It was rubbish.......but people are like SHEEP .....they follow along !! There is a parallel now in the "global warming" propaganda. As Goebbells used to say......tell a lie often enough and people will believe it!! I I reckon that half the people on this planet have no idea of BASIC arithmetic.
Bora Bora
So then, when is it 12 AM according to your logic and basic arithmetic? Here on earth we have 12 hours in the AM cycle and 12 hours in the PM cycle - you know 24 hours in a day? And you critize "half the people on this planet" about the basics of math. I guess you are talking about the people on your planet, which definitely is not Earth!!!! Chocoholic RK are you off your rocker? 12am is midnight. Easiest way is to use a 24 hour clock instead of AM and PM. So 12 midnight = 00.00! You're an adult and you're asking these basic questions? Did they not teach YOU basic time calculations at school? bonk
12 noon is 12pm because it is the start of the afternoon. It would make no sense to write 12:00 am then 12:01 pm, and obviously 12:01 is pm because it is in the afternoon, not the morning.
The new millenium started on 01 January 2000.
Current millenium runs from 01 January 2000 to 31 December 2999 (1000 years).
Previous millenium was from 01 January 1000 to 31 December 1999 (1000 years).
And before that 01 January 0000 to 31 December 999 (1000 years).
Otherwise which millenium did 01 January - 31 December 0000 AD belong to?
Current century from 01 January 2000 to 31 December 2099.
Current decade from 01 January 2000 to 31 December 2009.
And so on. RedKite WRONG !! WRONG !!! WRONG!! 1 minute past noon MUST be 12:01 AM ....because the AM refers to the TWELVE !! HOW THE HELL CAN 12:59 PM BE FOLLOWED A MINUTE LATER BY 1 PM ?? THAT IS STUPID!! The NEW millennium started on JANUARY 1st 2001 !!!! BECAUSE IT STARTS WITH ONE!!!! 0 REFERS TO TEN !! DO YOU COUNT........10,1,2,3,4 ??????? 2000 YEARS OF THE PREVIOUS 2 MILLENNIA WERE COMPLETE on DEC 31st 2000..........AT MIDNIGHT!!......or 12 PM!! I SAID THAT HALF THE WORLD WERE INNUMERATE AND ILLOGICAL !! bonk
You need a new keyboard. Your capslock key and punctuation keys are sticky.
You didn't answer my question.
AM refers to morning, PM to afternoon. Not to the number that precedes them.
AM means ante meridiem or before noon. PM means post meridiem or after noon. 12:01 is after noon hence 12:01 PM. portland
This one is funny, RK just use military time "24 hrs system" in there you wont get lost. 12:00 is Noon and 00:00 is Midnight
Also a millenium or decade is counted as 0 to 9 not from 1 to 10.
So 1 decade is equal to 1990 to 1999. as to Millenium is equal to 2000 to 2999.
Always consider 0 as a start number and 9 is the end number, coz arithmetically these are the basic of number. so on are just added and combination of these numbers. RedKite Portland, You are WRONG!! 2000 years is two millennia....because that's what it MEANS! Numbers do NOT START at 0 . They start at ONE 1, 2, 3, 4,5, 6, 7,8, 9 TEN!!! The 0 comes from TEN!! 10 years is a decade . 100 years is a century..........you are SAYING 99 YEARS IS A CENTURY !! 1000 years is a millennium [ with 2 Ns .......even your N is missing from your millennium!! RedKite Bonk, Nothing wrong with my keyboard, bonk .......it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOUT IN PRINT,,,,,,,,,,,because the printed word emanates NO SOUND AT ALL!! More LOGICAL PHYSICS FOR YOU !! You are HEARING THINGS if you can hear a noise here. Check with your doctor! Can you HEAR WITH YOUR EYES?? How the hell can you book a taxi between 12 pm and 1pm and consider it to be ONE HOUR!! You would have to be BONK....ers !!! How can you have 10 AM , 11 AM , 12PM , 1PM , 2PM consecutively ???? what sort of LOGIC is that?? So many people are confused by simple LOGIC that they refer to middday as 12 NOON ......because they are semi-numerate people!! RedKite Bonk/Portland.. Go on ! Explain how 11 AM is followed by 11.59 AM , 59 minutes later and then by 12.00PM a minute later . Then explain how 12.59 PM is followed ONE MINUTE LATER by 1.00PM !!! Explain it LOGICALLY and MATHEMATICALLY......because Maths is an EXACT SCIENCE , not WAFFLE like the Arts !! I studied A-level maths. I had 95 per cent in my O-Level Geometry paper in the 1960s when marking was TOUGH and there was no continual assessment or cheating with computers, like today. If what you have said is common-sense, I must be Attila the Hun!

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RedKite Gotcha Bonk !! There was NO YEAR 0000AD EVER in history !! Find a record of it !! How can you have a year NOUGHT , when nought is NOTHING? Did you have a "Year nothing"?? For a start, the Romans did not even have the concept of 0 as a number. They wrote 10 as X and 100 as C. Dates , according to Christ's time.......were written LONG AFTER his death. So 1 BC or 1 year Before Christ was not used as a date until much later than Christ's time. 1AD means Anno Domini ........IN the FIRST YEAR OF OUR LORD. He was not actually born on December 25th at all , he was born in summer. Dec 25th celebration comes as a CONTINUANCE of the pre-Christian festival to celebrate the LENGTHENING DAY ...after the SHORTEST DAY OF DECEMBER 21st !! Lengthening days are what mattered to early man........long before Christianity or Judaism ..........THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE!! Hence Stonehenge has been designed to get the light of the shortest day in the back of the chamber. Lengthening days and LIGHT are what early man celebrated. The religious word LENT comes from the German for "Lengthening days" which you have in February, when days lengthen rapidly.. But since the birth of Jesus is taken as Dec 25th,,,,,,,at the end of a year........the year after is 1AD ....the "first year of our Lord". But that was designated much later in history. There was a different calendar at the time. Bora Bora
First, you need to learn netiquette. Google it!! Cap letters are, in netiquette, considered as "yelling". Just Google: netiquette, "yelling on the internet" and READ.
Here's a watch I bought for you:

but if you find it too heavy to wear you can use this:

You really need to shut up because you are making an a$$ out of yourself. Toddlers can tell time better than you. bonk
:lol: :lol: :lol:
RK, you're making too much noise for me to figure out what you're saying now. RedKite Bonk and Bora twice,
Bora,
You pick on my capitals and so-called "netiquette "......and WHO invented that ? Which commandment is that ?
You mention it because you have no answer to LOGICAL NUMERACY.so you change the subject, like all people do when they have no answers to logical argument.
Then hypocritically you dole out your insults whilst referring to etiquette.
Don't you see your crass hypocrisy? Where is YOUR "net etiquette" ??
Bonk,
NO , you DON'T " follow me" and CANNOT answer because you do not understand time and calendars in the first place.
You have just said that :-
[1] Numbers run ........0,1.,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ..........when they clearly logically run 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
And TEN years makes a decade !
Why is this item not Number [0] then? Why is it number [1] ? Because it is the FIRST point, not the NOUGHT point!!
0 is NOTHING and you cannot have a number nothing.
The Romans had NO CONCEPT of ZERO , which is why they had NO NUMBER even to represent it. TEN is X in Roman Numerals . HUNDRED is C . There is no NOUGHT.....no ZERO !!
[2] You are telling me there was a year called 0000AD ......Absolute TOSH!! No such year ever existed and it could not, because ZERO is NOTHING and you cannot have a "YEAR NOTHING"
1BC was followed by 1AD .......In other words 1 year BEFORE CHRIST was followed by 1 AD ....1 ANNO DOMINI ......"THE FIRST YEAR OF OUR LORD". But these dates were not set until much later in history , because WHEN CHRIST WAS A CHILD THEY DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS .........OBVIOUSLY........SO HE DID NOT LEND HIS NAME TO CALENDARS AT THE TIME !!
[3] How can 10 AM, 11AM , 12PM , 1PM ,2PM be a logical time sequence ?
That is why so many WAFFLE and use 12 NOON.
First there was a Julian Calendar . Then 10 days was removed and "lost" and the present Gregorian Calendar was adopted . In the Gwaun Valley in Pembrokeshire , they still celebrate " Yr Hen Galan" ....the "Old New Year " on January 10th every year, which would be New Year's Day according to the old Julian Calendar.
Arabs have a calendar based on the Prophet Mohammed's date of birth ,centuries after Jesus, do they not? prasanga077 yesss Misery Called Life
Ok so this is the crux of the issue.

And here's where you answer the question you raised.
Lets take an example
Assuming
11:59 pm = 99
then
12.00 = 100
If 12:00 = 100 then 12:00 must be AM
The flaw ur making is
11:59 PM = 99
12:00 PM = 100
By that logic you contradict the (second quoted) point that ur making. Cuz you said that 100 is a century not 101! Bora Bora OK, anyone trying to explain "TIME" to him is talking to a wall. If he doesn't know how to tell time by now, then it's a hopeless cause trying to teach it to him. Go teach it to a 5 year old, who will grasp the concept alot faster. coolpista 12 noon is 12 am and 12 midnight is 12 pm... correct me if I am wrong. Bora Bora
Its the other way around. 12 AM is midnight until 11:59 AM, a minute later it becomes 12 PM and 11 hours and 59 minutes later, a minute later its 12 Noon, which is 12 PM until 11:59 PM then a minute later it starts over (12 AM).
viking-warrior I love it - at last a thread full of Kak & splitting hairs here is my take on it Going back to RK's position time in retrospect re: Milleniums, started year 1 (by the Gregorian Calendar) on 01/01/0000 and ended 23:59:99.999999999 31/12/0000 therein is the linguistic stumble that screws everyone up - the numerical designation of the date and the verbal statement of first year So the first period was 1 year and the calendar then works like an abacus where the 'year' counter is the full year period that preceded the current date thus on 31/12/1999 23:59:99.99999999 we celebrated the conclusion of measuring 2000 time slots of 1 year in length because right after that our year counter stated 2000 and additional parts thereof HOWEVER the great giant heads that started this all off did not comprehend the idea of zero, elegantly 'borrowed' from the Assyrians (Iraqis) and started counting from 1 this is called Ordinal, argument being how can i count no fingers !!! Science bods take the now common logical approach and begin at zero this is the Cardinal method. Jeez all this to arrive at the fact that actually both are correct My view? the millenia run 1 - 1000 1001 - 2000 2001 - 3000 and so on because the name describes the thousand years inclusive, if you have no sense of history then 31/12/1999 was the correct time to celebrate - as it happens we all had the flu so did not give a flying hoot ...... viking-warrior Now get your heads around this ... If you believe in quantum physics the point in time that you are attempting described does not exist - only time before and time after the event exists so 23:59:99.9999999999999 is the time slot before "midnight" and described as PM and 00:00:00.000000000001 is the time slot after "midnight is described as AM but the exact time 00:00 does not exist as either AM or PM Sorry BB but your alarm clock contravenes the laws of Physics Midnight and Midday/Noon have no AM or PM value :) bonk RK, ignore this post, I have a version for you in the next post. My mistake. Calendar 1. There is no year 0 in the Julian and Gregorian calendars which are what most people are familiar with (in the west at least). 2. There is a year 0 in astronomical calendars (because of my background I was thinking along these lines). 3. Decades run from 01 January xxx0 to 31 December xxx9. The first decade was only 9 years because of the absence of year 0. 4. Centuries run from 01 January xx01 to 31 December xx00. 5. Millennia run from 01 January x001 to 31 December x000. So yes, it was incorrect to celebrate the end of the 20th century and 2nd millennium on 31 December 1999, we should have waited until 31 December 2000. But the end of the decade was 31 December 1999. No wonder there is confusion and argument. Time Since AM and PM refer to before and after noon, 12am means midnight (12 hours before noon) but 12pm could also means midnight (12 hours after noon). Obviously that doesn't make sense so the correct way is to write 12 noon and 12 midnight. But by convention most people understand 12am to mean midnight and 12pm to mean midday. 11:59am is 1 minute before midday 12:01pm is 1 minute after midday 11:59 pm is 1 minute before midnight 12:01 am is 1 minute after midnight With a 12am noon and 12pm midnight we'd have the following time sequences which looks clumsy 11:59am - 12:00 am - 12:01 pm 11:59pm - 12:00 pm - 12:01 am A 24 hour clock avoids this confusion - 00:00 is the start of a new day at midnight, 12:00 is midday, and 24:00 is the end of a day at midnight. bonk THIS VERSION FOR RK (SAME AS PREVIOUS POST BUT TRANSLATED TO RKSPEAK)!!????????!!!!!!!!!!! MY MISTAKE!!!!!!!????????????? CALENDAR!!!!!!!????????????? 1. THERE IS NO YEAR 0 IN THE!!!!!!!????????????? JULIAN AND GREGORIAN CALENDARS WHICH ARE WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH (IN THE WEST !!!!!!!?????????????AT LEAST). 2. THERE IS A YEAR 0 IN ASTRONOMICAL CALENDARS (BECAUSE OF!!!!!!!????????????? MY BACKGROUND I WAS THINKING ALONG THESE LINES).!!!!!!!????????????? 3. DECADES RUN FROM 01 JANUARY XXX0 TO 31 DECEM!!!!!!!?????????????BER XXX9. THE FIRST DECADE WAS ONLY 9 YEARS BECAUSE OF THE ABSENCE OF YEAR 0.!!!!!!!????????????? 4. CENTURIES RUN FROM !!!!!!!?????????????01 JANUARY XX01 TO 31 DECEMBER XX00. 5. MILLENNIA RUN FROM 01 JANUARY X001 !!!!!!!?????????????TO 31 DECEMBER X000. SO !!!!!!!?????????????YES, IT WAS INCORRECT TO CELEBRATE THE END OF THE 20TH !!!!!!!?????????????CENTURY AND 2ND MILLENN!!!!!!!?????????????IUM ON 31 DECEMBER 1999, WE SHOULD HAVE WAITED UNTIL 31 DECEMBER 2000. BUT THE END OF THE DECADE WA!!!!!!!?????????????S 31 DECEMBER 1999. NO WONDER THERE IS CONFUSION AND ARGUMENT. TIM!!!!!!!?????????????E SINCE AM AND PM REFER T!!!!!!!?????????????O BEFORE AND AFTER NOON, 12AM MEANS !!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!?????????????MIDNIGHT (12 HOURS BEFORE NOON) BUT 12PM COULD ALSO MEANS MIDNIGHT (12 HOURS AFTER NOON). OBVIOUSL!!!!!!!?????????????Y THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE SO THE CORRECT WAY !!!!!!!?????????????IS TO WRITE 12 NOON AND 12 MIDNIGHT. BUT BY CONVENTION MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND 12AM TO MEAN !!!!!!!?????????????MIDNIGHT AND 12PM TO MEAN MIDDAY. 11:59AM IS 1 !!!!!!!?????????????MINUTE BEFORE MIDDAY 12:01PM IS 1 MINUTE !!!!!!!?????????????AFTER MIDDAY 11:59 PM IS 1 MINUTE BEFORE MIDNIGHT!!!!!!!????????????? 12:01 AM IS !!!!!!!?????????????1 MINUTE AFTER MIDNIGHT WITH A 12AM NOON AND 12PM MIDNIGHT !!!!!!!?????????????WE'D HAVE THE FOLLOWI!!!!!!!?????????????NG TIME SEQUENCES !!!!!!!?????????????WHICH LOOKS CLUMSY 11:59AM - 12:00 AM - 12:01 !!!!!!!?????????????PM 11:59PM - 12:00 PM - 12:01 AM!!!!!!!????????????? A 24 HOUR CLOCK AVOIDS THIS CONFUSION - 00:00 IS !!!!!!!?????????????THE START OF A NEW DAY AT MIDNIGHT, 12:00 IS MIDDAY, AND 24:00 IS THE END OF A DAY AT MIDNIGHT.!!!!!!!????????????? sage & onion Wow, some people have time on their hands. LOL viking-warrior As Basil Brush used to say ... "Boom boom" :) arniegang
Mr Derrick
:lol: viking-warrior Remember the original Capt Pugwash ? My favourite Fantastic :lol: Bora Bora I'm posting and the time now is: 12:48 AM and it's dark outside. Misery Called Life It's 1:10 here and the dark clouds outside my window are spinning fast :lol: arniegang 10.30 pm dark, cold and wet here sage & onion 07:25hrs, the sun is shining and breakfast is on the table :-) RedKite Bonk,
EUREKA !!
Ha ! Ha ! Ha Ha !! What a COP-OUT!! You have admitted you are COMPLETELY WRONG on the calendar......so you now try to distract by focusing on my grammar and rubbishing me in a way that has nothing to do with the MAIN argument !! It won't work ! That's just the sort of tactic used by politicians . I used capitals to drive the TRUTH into your head . So now you focus on my capitals to distract from the TRUTH!! Pathetic !!
You have said a decade ENDS , 1979, 1989 etc . No it does NOT ! A decade means TEN YEARS .
"the 60s "; " The 70's " ; "the 80's " are not SCIENTIFIC . They are Press invention , in that the Press .........peopled by Arts graduates , or Arts orientated people rather than scientists ,... always like to pigeon-hole the "Sixties " , the "Seventies " etc and differentiate between them , when, in truth , the goings-on of 1968 ,say, were much closer to those of 1971 than to those of 1962...........but that does not suit the waffling Press , because they like to refer to the Sixties as one ENTITY....one lifestyle....... .Then " the Seventies" as another and the Eighties as another, as if when 1960 , 1970 and 1980 arrived .......ALL LIFE CHANGED from the year before !!
In truth that is complete bullshit . What we call the "Sixties " did not really get going until 1963 with the Beatles. What we call the "flower-power" "seventies " started in about 1967 [ in San Francisco , mainly .......drug-induced ] and ended by about 1973 when stark reality , rampant inflation and unemployment took over[ in Britain] .
The flower power was largely a reaction against the Vietnam war .
It was copied by the Beatles etc and spread to the UK from California .
What changed that "way of life" in the UK was not the date on the calendar, but the election of Margaret Thatcher in 1979 and DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT POLICIES.
It was her policies that dictated the "Eighties" in the UK , but they started in 1979. 1979 was pure chance. If her election had been in 1977, things would have changed earlier.
Do you get my point? Decades are discussed widely AS SEPARATE ENTITIES in the Press because the Press like to discuss them to sell papers, ...... and according to the Press , every decade is different from the previous one . In truth, change is more likely to be brought about by the date of a change of government; or emergence of the Beatles ;or the escalation of war bringing a reaction in society etc. than a change in a number on a calendar. But the PRESS love their decades !!
A TRUE DECADE starts with 1981 or 1971 and ENDS on Dec 31st 1990 [ 80s] or Dec 31st 1980[70s] Because TEN is the last year of DECADE , not NINE!!
In other words,, The Eighties , ie 1980 to 1989 inclusive is only Press pigeon-holing , not a scientific entity.
Bonk, You were totally wrong with everything you posted earlier because there was NEVER a year NOUGHT in the first place !!
Now, as you squirm out of admitting you were totally wrong, you make another error.
You say " 12 AM .......12 HOURS BEFORE NOON.....means midnight" !
That is a false statement .
If 12 AM means 12 HOURS BEFORE NOON .........then it follows that 1AM MUST MEAN ONE HOUR BEFORE NOON , and it means no such thing. So you have made a false premise!! 1 AM is ELEVEN HOURS before noon!!
Mathematically , noon should be 12 AM because it comes between 11AM and 1PM .
.....and Midnight should be 12 PM because it comes in between 11PM and 1AM .........and a minute before the latter should be 12.59 PM ..... in other words AFTER MIDNIGHT not in the afternoon !!!
Is that LOGICAL or not ??
The trouble is that innumerate , Arts Graduate types have taken over the planet ......hence the plethora of wind turbines as well!! RedKite Viking Warrior,
You have tried to exhibit mathematical erudition....but you START with a false premise. There was NO YEAR 0000 AD ever in history . NOUGHT MEANS NOTHING!!
1BC was followed by 1AD ......."THE FIRST YEAR OF OUR LORD".
So the first millennium IN THE TIME OF CHRIST started with 1AD and ended on December 31st 1000 , then the 2nd millennium started on January 1st 1001 and ended on Dec 31st 2000.......BECAUSE 2000 MEANS TWO THOUSAND YEARS .....and 2000 YEARS ARE 2 MILLENNIA !!!
What could be simpler ??
The arrival of the year 2000 SHOULD have been celebrated because it was the year 2000[ a landmark in history ] .....not because it was a "New millennium" .
That is not being a pedant , that is just simple MATHEMATICAL FACT!! RedKite Coolpista 12 noon is 12 am and 12 midnight is 12 pm... correct me if I am wrong. CORRECT !! "Bora twice" says in reply:- Its the other way around. 12 AM is midnight until 11:59 AM, a minute later it becomes 12 PM and 11 hours and 59 minutes later, a minute later its 12 Noon, which is 12 PM until 11:59 PM then a minute later it starts over (12 AM). _________________ Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! Ha !! ........Bora is tying herself up in knots !! How can she say "12AM is midnight until 11:59AM , a minute later it becomes 12PM"...... That's not logic, it is gibberish!! Only a woman could utter that !! What contradiction ! Too much gin !! Bora Bora
But is it AM or PM?? That is the mystery. Misery Called Life 11:45, just had buttery scones and omlette. Time to pick us a java chip with lots of caramel.....yum! Nice and sunny day, feeling good, might do some yoga. (the extent a man will go to impress a lady :lol: ) bonk
Haha, nicely put (was it meant to be a pun :)?). Yes, I got a bit carried away there. Curiosity about my mistake got the better of me. bonk
TRY HARDER!!!????!!!?!?!?!?!?!????!?!?!?!? ITS NOT WORKING!!!??!?!?!?!?!??!? PERHAPS USE LARGER TEXT. OR A HAMMER ON YOUR KEYBOARD Bora Bora
Is it AM or PM?? bonk
Yes :). Bora Bora
I thought so. :wink: RedKite Even Dubai Forums has got its clock wrong. Look at the postings. 11.51 AM is followed by 12.28PM , followed by 5.32 PM !! Does that make sense?? bonk
Yes.
Anyway, it's the php date function that governs the display, using a UNIX timestamp. Any php script using 'A' or 'a' as part of the date() format string parameters will display time according to the 1200-1300 is PM and 0000-0100 is AM convention.
Some information from what I would call authoritative sources (National Physics Laboratory UK, National Institute of Standards & Technology USA, Royal Observatory Greenwich) to help you RK:
http://tf.nist.gov/general/misc.htm
.-(faq-time)
Now, can I suggest instead of continuing with your flapping, you provide a link to an authoritative source (university, government body, etc) that explains why 1200-1300 is am and 0000-0100 is pm. Preferably one with not too many capital letters or exclamation marks. RedKite FROM WIKIPEDIA
[edit] Criticism and practical problems
For more details on this topic, see Comparison of the 12-hour and 24-hour clocks.
People who grew up with the 24-hour clock see the 12-hour notation as a less practical and outdated convention, especially in the context of written communication, computers and digital clocks. Further, they may be confused when they come across situations very common in Internet forums and email, in which a message indicated as posted at "12:46 am" appears before a message marked "11:05 am". (These arguments may be compared to the discussion on metrication.)
The disadvantages commonly voiced in comparing the 12-hour notation to the 24-hour clock are:
Confusion about the correct notation for noon and midnight [HEADING]
Confusion about the difference between midnight at the start and end of a given date
The rollover from 12 to 1 happens an hour later than the change between a.m. and p.m.
It is not immediately clear on an analogue clock whether a time in another time zone is a.m. or p.m.[clarification needed]
The lexicographical order does not match the chronological order.
It is more complicated to implement in software and digital electronics.
Typographically, the a.m. and p.m. terms require more space.
[edit] Confusion at noon and midnight
Style Midnight
(start of day) Noon Midnight
(end of day)
24-hour clock, ISO 8601 00:00 12:00 24:00
Most digital 24-hour clocks 00:00 12:00 —
12-hour digital clocks
with a.m. and p.m. * 12:00 a.m. 12:00 p.m. —
U.S. Government Printing Office — 12 a.m. 12 p.m.
Antiquated † 12:00 m.n. 12:00 m. 12:00 m.n.
Canadian Press
UK standard
NIST1 † midnight noon midnight
NIST2 † 12:00 Midnight 12:00 Noon 12:00 Midnight
Associated Press Style[7] 12:01 a.m. noon midnight
U.S. de facto legal 12:01 a.m. — 11:59 p.m.
Encyclopædia Britannica[1] Midnight
December 11-12 12m Midnight
December 12-13
* Digital clocks and computers, when set to the 12-hour system, appear to show the times 12 a.m. and 12 p.m., as in this chart.
† These standards are ambiguous with respect to the whether midnight is at the start and or end of each day.
Since the Latin word meridies means noon or midday, it is illogical to refer to noon as either "12 a.m." ("12 ante meridiem", or "12 o'clock before noon") or as "12 p.m." ("12 post meridiem", or "12 o'clock after noon"). On the other hand, midnight could logically be called either "12 p.m." (12 post meridiem, 12 hours after the previous noon) or "12 a.m." (12 ante meridiem, 12 hours before the following noon); "x a.m." no longer means "x hours before noon", but "x hours into the day but before noon" or "x th hour before noon".
The National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, states:
To avoid confusion, the correct designation for twelve o'clock is 12 noon or 12 midnight. Alternatively, the twenty-four-hour-clock system may be used. The abbreviation a.m. stands for ante-meridiem (before the Sun has crossed the line) and p.m. for post-meridiem (after the Sun has crossed the line). At 12 noon the Sun is at its highest point in the sky and directly over the meridian. It is therefore neither "ante-" nor "post-".[8]
However, as discussed elsewhere in the same reference, the Sun is highest at 12 noon local bonk
Not an authoritative source.

Good work RK. Glad to see you finally agree. At least I assume you posted that because you agree. RedKite Bonk, I have not posted the Wikipedia because I AGREE. I have posted it because it PROVES I am NOT wrong and that it is illogical to stick 12 pm in between 11am and 1pm . 12 am is far more LOGICAL for noon than 12pm, if one uses the 12 hour clock , simply because 12.59pm is followed ONE MINUTE LATER by 1 pm. How mathematically logical is that???? The WORLD has got itself into an ILLOGICAL TIZZY by some users.......including DF....referring to 30 minutes after 12 noon as 12.30pm. Since the 30 minutes refers to the 12 , NOT TO THE AFTERNOON ....... it would make far more sense if the CONVENTION had been 12.30 am for that time in the middle of the day. Then one could have had the LOGICAL 11 am, 12 am and 1pm in a COMMON-SENSE SEQUENCE!! SO DO NOT TELL ME I'M WRONG !! WIKIPEDIA MERELY ADMITS TO THE CONFUSION !!! Something as basic and as IMPORTANT as TIME , should not be open to confusion OR DEBATE !! melika969 hehe, you are so funny old man! and your reasonning and logics are even funnier!! how do you feel if I say UK's name is Spain!? oh, will you freak out? so you are a RACIST! persian gulf is the name of this body of water! it's like I say london's name is Tehran!! how idiotic is that! and about the time, of course you are WRONG: The National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, states: To avoid confusion, the correct designation for twelve o'clock is 12 noon or 12 midnight. Alternatively, the twenty-four-hour-clock system may be used. The abbreviation a.m. stands for ante-meridiem (before the Sun has crossed the line) and p.m. for post-meridiem (after the Sun has crossed the line). At 12 noon the Sun is at its highest point in the sky and directly over the meridian. It is therefore neither "ante-" nor "post-".[ It is a contarct between people! to call 12 noon, 12 PM. and I'm not gonna answer your insults to me, cause I know manners and my culture doesn't let me to. you can insist on your false reasoning, who cares? Chocoholic I cannot believe you are still arguing about the time RK, you are wrong, because the entire world knows that 12pm is midday! If it's too confusing for you I suggest yo use a 24 hour clock. And the Persian/Arabian Gulf argument has been spouted before, to the majority of countries it's the Arabian Gulf, only Iranians and a few other arab nations call it the Persian Gulf. melika969 With the rise of Arab nationalism (Pan-Arabism) in the 1960s, most Arab states started adopting the term "Arabian Gulf" (in Arabic: الخلیج العربي al-ḫalīǧ al-ʻarabi) to refer to the waterway.However, this naming has not found much acceptance outside of the Arab world, and is not recognized by the United Nations or any other international organization. The United Nations Secretariat on many occasions has requested that only "Persian Gulf" be used as the official and standard geographical designation for the body of water.Historically, "Arabian Gulf" has been a term used to indicate the Red Sea.At the same time, the historical veracity of the usage of "Persian Gulf" can be established from the works of many medieval historians. Chocoholic Heard it all before! Try using that term here - no go! bonk
Good point. I guess that's why the NMM, NIST, and other authoritative bodies have clarified the issue. Of course they can't force you to agree with them if you want to be the odd one out and disagree with them and the world, as you say.

Funny, with all your exclamation marks and shouting it looks to me like you're in an illogical tizzy.
You're joking when you say you're 62 right :)? Galactico I cant believe this argument about time is still going on.... :roll: :roll: :roll: RedKite Can't YOU read, Bonk??? Whoever put that on Wikipedia has ADMITTED TO THE ILLOGICALITY of 11pm being followed by 12am then 1am and 11am being followed by 12 pm then 1 pm. It is not ME that has said so, it is a RECOGNISED PROBLEM. ......That is why it is on Wikipedia!! There have been AGE-OLD arguments because ILLOGICAL PEOPLE have got it WRONG!! Sure , one can say that noon and midnight should be NEITHER ....OR EITHER .... PM and/or AM, but the 12 hour clock is common and it is PLAIN DAFT to put 12.59 AM BEFORE 1AM and 12.59 PM BEFORE 1PM . It does not run PROPERLY NUMERICALLY , and some others have even recognised that on this thread. It is YOU....and OTHER WOMEN ON THIS SITE .......who DO NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT!! Is that your excuse for being 12 hours late when you're going out for the night , as you slap on the rouge and the polyfilla ?? RedKite Melika, Go for it......have a cat-fight with Choc!! CLOCK HER ONE , CHOC !!! Melika, Why don't you tell Sheikh Mohammed it is called the PERSIAN GULF and he is talking rubbish?? You are BOUND to get a visa then !!! By the way, if it is 12 pm in the Persian Gulf, what time is it in the Arabian Gulf???? Good quiz question !!



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