the perfect country of RobbyG

sage & onion

3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....

For instance this is simply not being followed or enforced

naruto

uaekid wrote:
- RobbyG wrote:
  - naruto wrote:
    - Chocoholic wrote:
      Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!
    dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you..
  Problems we have left over here, are people that think like you!
  You got to find the root of them problems, not in ones own country but at the source 8)
haa... well for the so called ( cheap labor ) the source of the problem was in their own country, like all the expats here, all of them signed a contract before they stepped a foot here. not that the contract is any good but robbyG as a business man you should know a contract is an agreement that has condtions both parties agreed up on. what do you wish the country to do ? as there are human rights there are laws too, right ? the country has to respect that other wise foreign companies wont feel comfortable if the country interferes in its contracts. it's more of a legal issue than as you accuse the country a human right issue.
even if you set a minimum wage ,the greedy companies will find ways to deduct housing ,food and transportation deductions from them and every thing goes back to that cheap monthly salary. those ppl needs a job so badly that they'll sign any contract without reading it, what to do ?. and I like to point out that the Philippine has fixed this problem by giving their workers classes of some kind to teach them all they need to know about this issue.
the other problems were solved when they got out of hand like for example:
1-working in the heat : they passed a law to force companies to take a break at noon time when the heat is at is peak.
2- the crowded housing : they passed a law not to renew or issue construction companies permits unless those companies show an acceptable housing for its workers.
3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....
but sadly robbyG you passed your judgments with out knowing all the above bcz you had no source or out dated one to pass your judgment on, you didn't even ask what are the currents laws !!!!!!!!!!!! do you know them robbyG or you just depend on forums threads ?
robbyG, the country population consist of 80% foreigners from all over the world ! can you find a country that has this figure? if it's as bad as everyone is saying why do you think most of them stays here with their families for at least 10-15 years ?
you are looking at issues from a tiny window robbyG

intersting and well said kid...
PPl should know that UAE is still young compare to westren country ..ppl learn from their mistakes and by experinces we can develop new laws and import them to the system , some of these laws are even new to me so how suprising it will be for strangers.
RG you said that you speak as a Human rights activist and im cool with it , but dont you think that its better for you to start your activities in ur homland , they need you more than we do ..if i have problem in my hous or with my marrige i will not start by solving other ppl issues and leave mine as they dont exsist, also dont expect others to except your help unless they came to you ..and we did not do that . uaekid hey it turned that you worst than Dubai after all ...
Worst Forms of Child Labour Data
Netherlands Region Europe
Population 15,735,000
Population under 18 3,412,000

Total Child Labour NATIONAL STATISTICS
* For the year 2000, the ILO projects that there will be 0 economically active children between the ages of 10-14. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)
* For the year 2000, 561000 children between 15-19 years were economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 2001)
* 512,000 teenagers between 15-19 years are economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 1999)
* In 1995, 0.02% of children between the ages of 10-14 years were economically active. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)

Child Slavery
GENERAL NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS
* No cases of forced child labour occur. (US Dept of State, Human Rights Report, 1998)

Child Trafficking NATIONAL STATISTICS
* The country is a major destination for trafficked women. According to the Justice Ministry, 20,000 to 30,000 persons work in prostitution, about half of them illegal residents from non-EU countries. Many come from Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Eastern Europe, and Nigeria. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2000, February 2001)
* The Foundation Against Trafficking in Women estimates that each year some 3,000 women and girls are brought into the country for the purpose of prostitution. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2000, February 2001)
* At least 200 women, including girls under the age of 16, were trafficked by one Polish man to Netherlands and Germany between 1993 and 1996. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Trafficking of Women to the European Union", European Conference on Trafficking in Women, June 1996, citing Warsaw Voice)
ADULT STATISTICS
* According to various reports, some 3,500 Bulgarian women are trafficked to Poland, thousands to the Netherlands and the Czech Republic, while others are trafficked to Germany, Belgium, Canada, Serbia-Montenegro, Romania, Hungary, TFYR Macedonia, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, and Turkey. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999, 25 February 2000)
* In Amsterdam, 80% of prostitutes are foreigners, and 70% have no immigration papers, suggesting that they were trafficked. (CATW Fact Book, citing Marie-Victoire Louis, "Legalizing Pimping, Dutch Style", Le Monde Diplomatique, 8 March 1997)
* In 1994, 69% of 168 trafficked victims were from Central and Eastern European Countries. (The Dutch Foundation Against Trafficking in Women, "Trafficking of Women to the European Union", European Conference on Trafficking in Women, June 1996, IOM, 7 May 1996)
* There are at least 1,000 trafficked women in the Netherlands. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Trafficking of Women to the European Union", European Conference on Trafficking in Women, June 1996)
GENERAL NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS
* A Dutch study by Terre des Hommes indicates that many children are trafficked into the Netherlands for purposes of abuse through prostitution. Many of these children, mostly girls, come from Africa. They are sold again to Belgium and other European countries where they are forced to provide sex. (ECPAT International, A Step Forward, 1999)
* The Directorate of Migration estimates that there are approximately 400 rings of alien smugglers and purveyors of false documents operating within the Dominican Republic. These individuals profit by facilitating the trafficking of women to Spain, Netherlands, and Argentina under false pretenses, for purposes of prostitution. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999, 25 February 2000)
* Homeless children in Romania have increasingly been trafficked under false pretenses and forced into prostitution in Berlin and Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam, Holland. (CATW Fact Book, citing Save the Children, Albert Clack, "Romania: Life on the streets", 1998)
* The main concentrations of prostituted Dominican women working abroad are in Austria, Curacao, Germany, Greece, Haiti, Italy, the Netherlands, Panama, Puerto Rico, Spain, Switzerland, Venezuela and the West Indies. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Trafficking in Women from the Dominican Republic for Sexual Exploitation", IOM, June 1996)
* Sweden is used as a transit country for trafficking Latin American women to brothels in Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Trafficking of Women to the European Union", European Conference on Trafficking in Women, June 1996)
* Women from Thailand are trafficked particularly to the Netherlands and Germany, Japan, Australia, India, Malaysia and nations of the Middle East. (CATW-Asia Pacific, Trafficking in Women and Prostitution in the Asia Pacific, 1996)
* In the Czech Republic, the growing organised crime networks have engaged in the trafficking of young women into Western Europe, especially to Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Greece. The operation uses Slovakia as a transit country. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Highway to prostitution", The Euroreporter, 1995)

Child Prostitution and Pornography NATIONAL STATISTICS
* Child prostitution seems concentrated in cities and while numbers vary, estimate range from 500 - 2000 children involved a year. (ECPAT, CSEC Database, )
* There are an estimated 1,000 child prostitutes. (World Congress Against Commercial Sexual Exploitation, August 1996)
ADULT STATISTICS
* There are an estimated 30,000 prostitutes in the Netherlands. (CATW Fact Book, citing "Sex Tax Ticks Off Dutch", AP, 14 October 1997)
* In Amsterdam, 80% of prostitutes are foreigners, and 70% have no immigration papers, suggesting that they were trafficked. (CATW Fact Book, citing Marie-Victoire Louis, "Legalizing Pimping, Dutch Style", Le Monde Diplomatique, 8 March 1997)
GENERAL NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS
* Of all child prostitutes, a study by the Dutch Institute of Social Sexual Research estimated that 33.5% are of Dutch origin, 28% are not of Dutch origin (permanent residents) and 39% are recently immigrated (less than 5 years). Major groups include, Nigerians, Moroccans, Chinese and Eastern Europeans. The study also noted that there are approximately 1000 boys working in the industry. (ECPAT, CSEC Database, )
* A Dutch study by Terre des Hommes indicates that many children are trafficked into the Netherlands for purposes of abuse through prostitution. Many of these children, mostly girls, come from Africa. They are sold again to Belgium and other European countries where they are forced to provide sex. (ECPAT International, A Step Forward, 1999)
* Homeless children in Romania have increasingly been trafficked under false pretenses and forced into prostitution in Berlin and Hamburg in Germany and Amsterdam in The Netherlands. (CATW Fact Book, citing Save the Children, Albert Clack, "Romania: Life on the streets", 1998)
* The Philippines, Thailand, South Korea, Sri Lanka and Hong Kong are some of the primary Asian destinations for organised sex tours from the Netherlands. (CATW-Asia Pacific, Trafficking in Women and Prostitution in the Asia Pacific, 1996)

Children in Crime GENERAL JUVENILE CRIME STATISTICS
* In 1998 there were 207,778 reported cases of juvenile crime, representing 17% of all criminal cases. The specific offences were: 136 cases of murder (8% of all murders), 6,460 cases of serious assault (17% of all cases), 190,914 cases of all type of theft (23% of all cases), 130,458 cases of aggravated theft (26% of all cases), 4,478 cases of robbery and violent theft (31% of all cases), 126,188 cases of breaking and entering (26% of all cases), 65,660 case of other theft (20% of all cases), 1,229 cases of fraud (7% of all cases), 142 cases of counterfeit currency offences (6% of all cases), 229 cases of drug offences (3% of all cases). (INTERPOL, International Crime Statistics for 1998, National Statistics)

Child Soldiers GOVERNMENT FORCE STATISTICS
* The Dutch armed forces recruit 800 to 900 under-18s every year. (CSUCS, Global Report on Child Soldiers - 2001 citing Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 9/12/99, op. cit. )
RECRUITMENT LAWS AND REGULATIONS
* The Civil Code of the Netherlands (Burgerlijk Wetboek) states that children between 16 and 18 years of age may seek employment of their own choosing, on condition that they receive permission from parents or guardians and dispensation from a judge. (CSUCS, Global Report on Child Soldiers - 2001)
* According to internal rules of the armed forces, these recruits cannot be sent abroad to take part in military operations before they reach the age of eighteen. (CSUCS, Global Report on Child Soldiers - 2001 citing Gmelich Meijling op. cit.)
* In 1996, when Netherland modified its recruitment policy and its selection of personnel for peace operations abroad, it set 17 years as the minimum age for recruitment and 18 for participation in hostilities. 19 years is the minimum age for recruitment into the National Reserve Corps. (CSUCS, Europe Report, October 1999, citing Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 20 July 1999)
* The Dutch armed forces underwent an extensive reorganization in 1993 and conscription was suspended although it can be reinstated in case of emergency. (CSUCS, Europe Report, October 1999, citing Report of The Netherlands to the UN CRC, 24 July 1997)
NOTES ON GOVERNMENT FORCES
* There are indications of under-18s in government armed forces. Legislative provisions regarding the recruitment age need to be clarified and harmonized with actual practice. It appears that 16 is the minimum age in law but that the armed forces practice a policy of only recruiting 17-year-olds and deploying 18-year-olds. (CSUCS, Global Report on Child Soldiers - 2001)
NOTES ON FOREIGN OPPOSITION GROUPS
* On 22 November 1998, the criminal police of Hanover reported that 3 children had been trained by the PKK for guerrilla warfare in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium. (CSUCS, Europe Report, October 1999, citing "GfbV appelliert an Bundesregierung: Sorgen Sie f�r die R�ckkehr der von der PKK in Deutschland entf�hrten kurdischen Minderj�hrigen in ihren Familien!", GfbV, 23 November 1998)

Domestic Child Servants -
Other Hazardous
Child Labour SPECIFIC SECTORS
* Garment Manufacturing - Children were found working in illegal clothing workshops in Amsterdam. (EFCW, Children Who Work in Europe, June 1998)
* Street Children - The phenomenon of street children is on the increase recently as the group of migrant children has grown. They are mainly found in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. (EFCW, Children Who Work in Europe, June 1998)

you are not doing your home work back home robbyG !!. or better yet can you show us your effort toward all the above, you seem like a human rights enthusiast whom we might learn one or two things from . Indeed there are ppl who needs tissues more than me boy.. RobbyG You don't even understand these numbers kid. READ properly. These numbers a better than nearly any other country on the globe. But they can't measure it accurate there since they don't know any legal prostitution! Big difference. Definitions are very important also! You should really Visit-Holland some time (RedKite! Link please) since this country has the best human rights you can ever imagine. It is a shame you couldn't show us the latest numbers of 2006 or 2007 since they have improved even for the better. But look at those numbers!! Not a country in the world that has this kind of low numbers. By the way, you do know that prostitution in Holland is like owning a business right? That mean those woman are self employed and some are pimped, but they earn big money legally and pay taxes!! That means most of them work voluntarily for money! Not all perhaps, but that is the International trafficking circuit that gets high attention and prosecution from Dutch authorities. I was 12.7 years old when I got my first job. Thats normal if you want to make some money as a youngster. Thats a free working spirit Kiddo! You can learn something from that. Slavery he says, haah :lol: take another box of tissues Kid. We don't need them here, thats for sure. Chocoholic Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland! Pankaj

RobbyG wrote:
By the way, you do know that prostitution in Holland is like owning a business right? That mean those woman are self employed and some are pimped, but they earn big money legally and pay taxes!!
That means most of them work voluntarily for money! Not all perhaps, but that is the International trafficking circuit that gets high attention and prosecution from Dutch authorities.
I was 12.7 years old when I got my first job.

For a minute there, I thought you got a different kind of "job" at the age 12. Of the blow kind. Snow Israel is much worse in human trafficking... worldguy The point was same. Problem lies every where. UAEkid is doing what Robbie is doing ... trying to hide his own mess. RobbieG comes pointing fingers, but Dutch have their own shit they will never look at, but always ready to point fingers at others. At least he could accept reality re his backyard, while pointing fingers at UAE. UAE needs tht, but he can not take the focus away from facts. Some day, you will understand all this Robbie G. Heaven and hell are on earth ... we all experience it and the deeds we did all pass by us when we suffering. Don't convince me about anything, just convince yourself. Chocoholic And.... no-one is saying that these things don't happen elsewhere, of course they do. Point is this forum is not about anywhere else, it's about Dubai and the UAE - why can't you get that point! And the thing that really bothers others is when you have pious individuals that deny these things exist or happen here, that's the point! worldguy ^^^ very valid. ^^^ We get the point, but when people like RobbieG sitting in their own country point fingers at others ... is strange as they could help their own country address these issues the sitting on the net the whole day and trying to point out others faullt. Talk about productive utilisation of time.

1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
uaekid

Chocoholic wrote:
And.... no-one is saying that these things don't happen elsewhere, of course they do. Point is this forum is not about anywhere else, it's about Dubai and the UAE - why can't you get that point!
And the thing that really bothers others is when you have pious individuals that deny these things exist or happen here, that's the point!

thats not my point choc, like the others said, I just want to show how hypocrite he is when closing his eyes on their issues on foxing on ours. it simply means that he has no principles to being with ,no principles to preach others of human rights .his country makes it's income from things we all over the world consider illegal !! if he will show me his effort to his own country issues then I'll shut the hell up. but he is just like us accepting the reality that he can not change and worst defend his country of such doing by saying it is controlled. now that's denial dear.
I rest my case. K-Dog uaekid, don't get all excited. I get your point. RobbyG is odd and I can start a new thread about that. The point is in order to solve a problem you have to accept its exists. The attitude in the UAE is to deny anything thats negative. Nobody is perfect and we all have our own flaws. But by recognizing these flaws will only make us better. Just like we had no right to spread democracy around the world. The people woke up and voted the chimp out. I wish you guys would take more responsibility for what goes on. Even though I'm being laid off, I have no hard feelings. Yes, I may be a little bitter but thats just natural. I still thank Dubai for giving me the opportunity to expand my horizons. uaekid yes k-dog I'll accept it from a guy who believes in the issue not a guy whom him and his country is practicing it legally !! no, it's just not right. Worst he does not admit it is wrong. now for this denying issue you all cry about, what good is admitting the bad issues if everyones knows it already ? and the country is dealing with it . but you guys insisting that the country should put an effort for it's own bad publicity !! why do you think they should ? not unless you want the bad publicity for it period . RobbyG

Chocoholic wrote:
Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!

Absolutely true. My response was not necessary, but I'm happy to send them over.
Alot of data doesn't mean its bad. You simply have to understand the statistics behind it and the definitions that support them to get the ful picture.
My world ain't all roses here in Holland, everybody understands that. But it surely represents tulips in contrast with Dubai kind of human rights, which is what? A black widow!? :wink: :lol:
Cheers people RobbyG

worldguy wrote:
^^^ very valid. ^^^
We get the point, but when people like RobbieG sitting in their own country point fingers at others ... is strange as they could help their own country address these issues the sitting on the net the whole day and trying to point out others faullt. Talk about productive utilisation of time.

Trust me WG, It can be very enriching simply to read alot while developing a little businessmodel and looking for a job at the same time.
My knowledge and experience will not get lost by sitting behind a computer! Boy, I think I read and learned far more this year about the world than a typical 'working year'.
Maybe you have this eager for knowledge too some day. I do have that hunger I can tell you. According to K-Dog thats odd. Perhaps he's right. But I'm open to anyones opinion. Sorry if I sometimes protect the values I have and support, or that of others. Thats just who I am.
I'm human being also :wink: RobbyG By the way, you wanna know about me and my thought process Kid? Here it is somewhat packaged in 8 minutes of Ron Paul. I'm not supportive of Republicans, I lean to democrate side of values and thoughts but this is actually the Best politician around in the US of A today. This is the clear and consistent mind I would support. Finding True Values! &feature=related &NR=1 naruto

Chocoholic wrote:
Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!

dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you.. RobbyG

naruto wrote:
- Chocoholic wrote:
  Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!
dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you..

Problems we have left over here, are people that think like you!
You got to find the root of them problems, not in ones own country but at the source 8) Red Chief Rob, I heard about very supportive welfare system in the Netherlands. 1) How long can someone go on dole after being redundant? 2) How much is the dole?

RobbyG

Red Chief wrote:
Rob,
I heard about very supportive welfare system in the Netherlands.
1) How long can someone go on dole after being redundant?
2) How much is the dole?

To be honest, I got no idea. Never experienced it.
I quited myself, so I'm not entitled to any social benefits. I don't even want to be on the social payroll. It goes against my values.
Cheers desertdudeshj Have to agree with Naruto here. Although G speaks inteligently and makes some very valid points, but most of his arguments really don't hold much water when it comes to Dubai as he really has no "real" first hand Dubai experience. All of it second hand hearsay. And really has no "right" be a critic on Dubai. Sorry G but thats the way it is. :wink: RobbyG

desertdudeshj wrote:
Have to agree with Naruto here. Although G speaks inteligently and makes some very valid points, but most of his arguments really don't hold much water when it comes to Dubai as he really has no "real" first hand Dubai experience. All of it second hand hearsay. And really has no "right" be a critic on Dubai.
Sorry G but thats the way it is. :wink:

I consider myself not a critic! I only have my (slightly negative) opinion on the human rights issue about the construction workers from Pakistan and India. But then I always support the weaker part of people in society. I do that here in Holland too.
Thats not criticism, that striving for equal rights perhaps. And I think we can all agree on the issues that surround Dubai with the cheap labourers, dont you agree?
With so many reports coming on the table, and a government now admitting work on the final dots, I think this is a good issue that can be spoken about on an even keel.
I find that more than normal in my society. Thats doesn't make me a critic on Dubai! That is opinion that differs from you perhaps. I have every right to speak Desertdude. And don't you ever think of taking that right away from me.
If the words aren't being heard, the fist goes on the table. And thats how it works. Respect is key. desertdudeshj Shoo ???? :shock: where did the labourers come into all of this ???? RobbyG

desertdudeshj wrote:
Shoo ???? :shock: where did the labourers come into all of this ????

Well thats what my critic is aimed at. What do you mean then? uaekid

RobbyG wrote:
- naruto wrote:
  - Chocoholic wrote:
    Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!
  dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you..
Problems we have left over here, are people that think like you!
You got to find the root of them problems, not in ones own country but at the source 8)

haa... well for the so called ( cheap labor ) the source of the problem was in their own country, like all the expats here, all of them signed a contract before they stepped a foot here. not that the contract is any good but robbyG as a business man you should know a contract is an agreement that has condtions both parties agreed up on. what do you wish the country to do ? as there are human rights there are laws too, right ? the country has to respect that other wise foreign companies wont feel comfortable if the country interferes in its contracts. it's more of a legal issue than as you accuse the country a human right issue.
even if you set a minimum wage ,the greedy companies will find ways to deduct housing ,food and transportation deductions from them and every thing goes back to that cheap monthly salary. those ppl needs a job so badly that they'll sign any contract without reading it, what to do ?. and I like to point out that the Philippine has fixed this problem by giving their workers classes of some kind to teach them all they need to know about this issue.
the other problems were solved when they got out of hand like for example:
1-working in the heat : they passed a law to force companies to take a break at noon time when the heat is at is peak.
2- the crowded housing : they passed a law not to renew or issue construction companies permits unless those companies show an acceptable housing for its workers.
3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....
but sadly robbyG you passed your judgments with out knowing all the above bcz you had no source or out dated one to pass your judgment on, you didn't even ask what are the currents laws !!!!!!!!!!!! do you know them robbyG or you just depend on forums threads ?
robbyG, the country population consist of 80% foreigners from all over the world ! can you find a country that has this figure? if it's as bad as everyone is saying why do you think most of them stays here with their families for at least 10-15 years ?
you are looking at issues from a tiny window robbyG sage & onion

uaekid wrote:
- RobbyG wrote:
  - naruto wrote:
    - Chocoholic wrote:
      Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!
    dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you..
  Problems we have left over here, are people that think like you!
  You got to find the root of them problems, not in ones own country but at the source 8)
haa... well for the so called ( cheap labor ) the source of the problem was in their own country, like all the expats here, all of them signed a contract before they stepped a foot here. not that the contract is any good but robbyG as a business man you should know a contract is an agreement that has condtions both parties agreed up on. what do you wish the country to do ? as there are human rights there are laws too, right ? the country has to respect that other wise foreign companies wont feel comfortable if the country interferes in its contracts. it's more of a legal issue than as you accuse the country a human right issue.
even if you set a minimum wage ,the greedy companies will find ways to deduct housing ,food and transportation deductions from them and every thing goes back to that cheap monthly salary. those ppl needs a job so badly that they'll sign any contract without reading it, what to do ?. and I like to point out that the Philippine has fixed this problem by giving their workers classes of some kind to teach them all they need to know about this issue.
the other problems were solved when they got out of hand like for example:
1-working in the heat : they passed a law to force companies to take a break at noon time when the heat is at is peak.
2- the crowded housing : they passed a law not to renew or issue construction companies permits unless those companies show an acceptable housing for its workers.
3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....
but sadly robbyG you passed your judgments with out knowing all the above bcz you had no source or out dated one to pass your judgment on, you didn't even ask what are the currents laws !!!!!!!!!!!! do you know them robbyG or you just depend on forums threads ?
robbyG, the country population consist of 80% foreigners from all over the world ! can you find a country that has this figure? if it's as bad as everyone is saying why do you think most of them stays here with their families for at least 10-15 years ?
you are looking at issues from a tiny window robbyG

A little bit of a blinkered reply don't you think kid?, whilst many laws have been passed the enforcement of the laws is another issue. uaekid and I guess your reply is a bit blinkered reply too. show me what are you talking about. or what part of reply is . RobbyG

naruto wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  - RobbyG wrote:
    - naruto wrote:
      - Chocoholic wrote:
        Typical reaction from a local to deflect the attention away from the UAE once again! We're not talking about Holland, this forum has nothing to do with Holland!
      dear choc, attack is the best form of defence.. you should know thats local will do anything to defend their country.. you should know that we agree with others opinion however we cant endure opinions from ppl who didnt see or lived in dubai or UAE..i have to agree with UAK kid and WG ..you should pay attention to ur country problems and face them ,not to point fingers to others and expect them not to point back at you..
    Problems we have left over here, are people that think like you!
    You got to find the root of them problems, not in ones own country but at the source 8)
  haa... well for the so called ( cheap labor ) the source of the problem was in their own country, like all the expats here, all of them signed a contract before they stepped a foot here. not that the contract is any good but robbyG as a business man you should know a contract is an agreement that has condtions both parties agreed up on. what do you wish the country to do ? as there are human rights there are laws too, right ? the country has to respect that other wise foreign companies wont feel comfortable if the country interferes in its contracts. it's more of a legal issue than as you accuse the country a human right issue.
  even if you set a minimum wage ,the greedy companies will find ways to deduct housing ,food and transportation deductions from them and every thing goes back to that cheap monthly salary. those ppl needs a job so badly that they'll sign any contract without reading it, what to do ?. and I like to point out that the Philippine has fixed this problem by giving their workers classes of some kind to teach them all they need to know about this issue.
  the other problems were solved when they got out of hand like for example:
  1-working in the heat : they passed a law to force companies to take a break at noon time when the heat is at is peak.
  2- the crowded housing : they passed a law not to renew or issue construction companies permits unless those companies show an acceptable housing for its workers.
  3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....
  but sadly robbyG you passed your judgments with out knowing all the above bcz you had no source or out dated one to pass your judgment on, you didn't even ask what are the currents laws !!!!!!!!!!!! do you know them robbyG or you just depend on forums threads ?
  robbyG, the country population consist of 80% foreigners from all over the world ! can you find a country that has this figure? if it's as bad as everyone is saying why do you think most of them stays here with their families for at least 10-15 years ?
  you are looking at issues from a tiny window robbyG
intersting and well said kid...
PPl should know that UAE is still young compare to westren country ..ppl learn from their mistakes and by experinces we can develop new laws and import them to the system , some of these laws are even new to me so how suprising it will be for strangers.
RG you said that you speak as a Human rights activist and im cool with it , but dont you think that its better for you to start your activities in ur homland , they need you more than we do ..if i have problem in my hous or with my marrige i will not start by solving other ppl issues and leave mine as they dont exsist, also dont expect others to except your help unless they came to you ..and we did not do that .

The assumption level on this forum is just enormous.
I am no human rights activist! I just support the weaker part of society in my direct influence like in a discussion or when I walk next to people being bashed on the streets! I don't look for that support. No activist here.
As for businessman. I wish I was, but I'm not a businessman!? Where did you get that from Kid. Again you should all be a little less presumptive and ask instead of pondering about things you haven't really studied on.
Its no fingerpointing of mine. I'm continuously looking for information regarding the UAE and I think I know my share. I'll be prepared for the culture clash when I arrive in Dubai. Other then that, its simply my understanding of things. I just blend in like water when I get there eventually.
You won't even notice me :wink: Snow there are 80% expats because they're not giving citizenship for hardly anyone over here. worldguy they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind. This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak. Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector. Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home. uaekid

worldguy wrote:
they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.

This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it uaekid

RobbyG wrote:
- desertdudeshj wrote:
  Have to agree with Naruto here. Although G speaks inteligently and makes some very valid points, but most of his arguments really don't hold much water when it comes to Dubai as he really has no "real" first hand Dubai experience. All of it second hand hearsay. And really has no "right" be a critic on Dubai.
  Sorry G but thats the way it is. :wink:
I consider myself not a critic! I only have my (slightly negative) opinion on the human rights issue about the construction workers from Pakistan and India. But then I always support the weaker part of people in society. I do that here in Holland too.
Thats not criticism, that striving for equal rights perhaps. And I think we can all agree on the issues that surround Dubai with the cheap labourers, dont you agree?
With so many reports coming on the table, and a government now admitting work on the final dots, I think this is a good issue that can be spoken about on an even keel.
I find that more than normal in my society. Thats doesn't make me a critic on Dubai! That is opinion that differs from you perhaps. I have every right to speak Desertdude. And don't you ever think of taking that right away from me.
If the words aren't being heard, the fist goes on the table. And thats how it works. Respect is key.

we are correcting you robbyG thats all. you seem to have an outdated info here thats all, and you can keep your rights for your self. your opinion is more like a used toilet paper. no ones cares for wrong information robbyG. but if it's matter of sucking up to others here then thats a diff issue but I'm just doing you a favor not to embarrass your self in front of an actual intelligent audience.
and I'm still waiting for your respond to my last post. you seem speechless for ones, need help typing ? uaekid

sage & onion wrote:
- 3- salaries must be paid throw banks... holding a labor passport is not legal now and so on ....
For instance this is simply not being followed or enforced

they just passed this law sage and you are talking 5000,000 salaries transactions here be realistic and give our poor performance labor office time to do 100% RobbyG

uaekid wrote:
- RobbyG wrote:
  - desertdudeshj wrote:
    Have to agree with Naruto here. Although G speaks inteligently and makes some very valid points, but most of his arguments really don't hold much water when it comes to Dubai as he really has no "real" first hand Dubai experience. All of it second hand hearsay. And really has no "right" be a critic on Dubai.
    Sorry G but thats the way it is. :wink:
  I consider myself not a critic! I only have my (slightly negative) opinion on the human rights issue about the construction workers from Pakistan and India. But then I always support the weaker part of people in society. I do that here in Holland too.
  Thats not criticism, that striving for equal rights perhaps. And I think we can all agree on the issues that surround Dubai with the cheap labourers, dont you agree?
  With so many reports coming on the table, and a government now admitting work on the final dots, I think this is a good issue that can be spoken about on an even keel.
  I find that more than normal in my society. Thats doesn't make me a critic on Dubai! That is opinion that differs from you perhaps. I have every right to speak Desertdude. And don't you ever think of taking that right away from me.
  If the words aren't being heard, the fist goes on the table. And thats how it works. Respect is key.
we are correcting you robbyG thats all. you seem to have an outdated info here thats all, and you can keep your rights for your self. your opinion is more like a used toilet paper. no ones cares for wrong information robbyG. but if it's matter of sucking up to others here then thats a diff issue but I'm just doing you a favor not to embarrass your self in front of an actual intelligent audience.
and I'm still waiting for your respond to my last post. you seem speechless for ones, need help typing ?

The intelligent on DF (as you like to call it) are not correcting me. The biased ones are. You, for instance.
How can you expect a proper discussion if I "only look out my tiny window" for instance. I think that says enough about your respect to me or my likes.
You go play with your mindset, then I will response on the likes of mine. You are not really 'intelligent' in my perspective. You should work on your approach first I would say.
Its your reputation that speaks for itself, not the words coming out of your mouth. Might consider working on that one also...
Just 2 'intelligent' tips. :lol: uaekid to further correct you it's just 5 or 6 members who got those wrong info out of the 100's of members here, haven't you noticed ? but hey if are running away from responding to my last post where I approved you were wrong and outdated and just settled for the above reply then yes I should wipe my ass with it. you are weak when proven wrong. Just like choc and her girlfriend. . bye for now RobbyG

uaekid wrote:
to further correct you it's just 5 or 6 members who got those wrong info out of the 100's of members here, haven't you noticed ? but hey if are running away from responding to my last post where I approved you were wrong and outdated and just settled for the above reply then yes I should wipe my a#s with it. you are weak when proven wrong. Just like choc and her girlfriend. .
bye for now

Right. Dream on Kid. desertdudeshj

uaekid wrote:
disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why not ! The Majority of Emaratis do not pay rent. Pay half the rate of electricity and water, health care is free etc etc Basically you have the least amount of expenditure and then you want a huge package + all the benfits for the below average pencil pushing skills.
If you are qualified and have specialised skills then you can demand a highend package. The average emarati has pushed himself so far into the lazy, good for nothing, rude and arogant stereotype that no one wants to touch them with ten foot pole when it comes hiring in the private sector and the few qualified ones also suffer due to this, call it reverse racsim if you will.
You will have to agree though most demand a salary which is way beyond than what they can bring to the table. Turn the tables around for a minute. You run a succesfull bussiness, will you hire anyone regardless of nationality who has very basic skills and is a know lousy employee and demands a salalry which equals to some of your highly skilled and experienced staff. When knowing very well you can get a highly qualified with a know good record demanding 1/3 rd or less of that salary ?
I know properly educated hard working very smart Emaratis working in the private to semi private sectors who are getting paid a little more for their position because they are emaratis but that is acceptable. But the point is you will be hired and get what your worth. Just being an emarati is not qualification enough although many might think so.
If the tables were turned and god forbid there were tough times on this country do you think majority of the Emarati population could migrate to other countries of the world and get similar paying employement that they enjoy here. Would you call yourself a attractive potential employee in the world labour market ? Could you realistically today move to another country outside the gulf and get what you think you deserve ?
It was the great vision of the late rulers like H.H Shk Zayed and H.H Shk Rashid that they made this country a heaven for its people and put policies into effect that their people would never have to see the tough times they saw in their early lives. But instead of taking full advantage of those and making yourselves into the most highly educated and highly competitive nation with the most potential on this planet. The majority have turned into what we see today.
Sorry UAE kid statements like 4 to 6k won't cut it just don't gel any more. RobbyG

desertdudeshj wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why not ! The Majority of Emaratis do not pay rent. Pay half the rate of electricity and water, health care is free etc etc Basically you have the least amount of expenditure and then you want a huge package + all the benfits for the below average pencil pushing skills.
If you are qualified and have specialised skills then you can demand a highend package. The average emarati has pushed himself so far into the lazy, good for nothing, rude and arogant stereotype that no one wants to touch them with ten foot pole when it comes hiring in the private sector and the few qualified ones also suffer due to this, call it reverse racsim if you will.
You will have to agree though most demand a salary which is way beyond than what they can bring to the table. Turn the tables around for a minute. You run a succesfull bussiness, will you hire anyone regardless of nationality who has very basic skills and is a know lousy employee and demands a salalry which equals to some of your highly skilled and experienced staff. When knowing very well you can get a highly qualified with a know good record demanding 1/3 rd or less of that salary ?
I know properly educated hard working very smart Emaratis working in the private to semi private sectors who are getting paid a little more for their position because they are emaratis but that is acceptable. But the point is you will be hired and get what your worth. Just being an emarati is not qualification enough although many might think so.
If the tables were turned and god forbid there were tough times on this country do you think majority of the Emarati population could migrate to other countries of the world and get similar paying employement that they enjoy here. Would you call yourself a attractive potential employee in the world labour market ? Could you realistically today move to another country outside the gulf and get what you think you deserve ?
It was the great vision of the late rulers like H.H Shk Zayed and H.H Shk Rashid that they made this country a heaven for its people and put policies into effect that their people would never have to see the tough times they saw in their early lives. But instead of taking full advantage of those and making yourselves into the most highly educated and highly competitive nation with the most potential on this planet. The majority have turned into what we see today.
Sorry UAE kid statements like 4 to 6k won't cut it just don't gel any more.

Kid is crazy by saying 8000 dirhams tax free isn't enough. Majority of people in Holland earn that as a salary AND pay 30 percent taxes of it. Then comes the 1,60 petrol per liter etc. etc.
The guys is NUTS and lives in a dreamworld dee7o

uaekid wrote:
- worldguy wrote:
  they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
  This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
  Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
  Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it

If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards. RobbyG

dee7o wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  - worldguy wrote:
    they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
    This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
    Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
    Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
  This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
  yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
  Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
  disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards.

Thats the only reason I put out my arguments here. Just to point out the vast differences in 'fantasy view' some of us have. And trust me, it aint the Western world that is ful of them, I can tell you that. worldguy ^^^for once, you hit the nail without going in circles.^^^ worldguy desertdudeshj - great post. Bora Bora

desertdudeshj wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why not ! The Majority of Emaratis do not pay rent. Pay half the rate of electricity and water, health care is free etc etc Basically you have the least amount of expenditure and then you want a huge package + all the benfits for the below average pencil pushing skills.
If you are qualified and have specialised skills then you can demand a highend package. The average emarati has pushed himself so far into the lazy, good for nothing, rude and arogant stereotype that no one wants to touch them with ten foot pole when it comes hiring in the private sector and the few qualified ones also suffer due to this, call it reverse racsim if you will.
You will have to agree though most demand a salary which is way beyond than what they can bring to the table. Turn the tables around for a minute. You run a succesfull bussiness, will you hire anyone regardless of nationality who has very basic skills and is a know lousy employee and demands a salalry which equals to some of your highly skilled and experienced staff. When knowing very well you can get a highly qualified with a know good record demanding 1/3 rd or less of that salary ?
I know properly educated hard working very smart Emaratis working in the private to semi private sectors who are getting paid a little more for their position because they are emaratis but that is acceptable. But the point is you will be hired and get what your worth. Just being an emarati is not qualification enough although many might think so.
If the tables were turned and god forbid there were tough times on this country do you think majority of the Emarati population could migrate to other countries of the world and get similar paying employement that they enjoy here. Would you call yourself a attractive potential employee in the world labour market ? Could you realistically today move to another country outside the gulf and get what you think you deserve ?
It was the great vision of the late rulers like H.H Shk Zayed and H.H Shk Rashid that they made this country a heaven for its people and put policies into effect that their people would never have to see the tough times they saw in their early lives. But instead of taking full advantage of those and making yourselves into the most highly educated and highly competitive nation with the most potential on this planet. The majority have turned into what we see today.
Sorry UAE kid statements like 4 to 6k won't cut it just don't gel any more.

Well said, especially if it were reverse and they wanted to expand their experience outside of the UAE.
Two sayings I hate:
Locals: I'm local. (Said when they think it's an entitlement due them)
Expats: Do you know who I am? (So many of them seem to forget who they are and have to ask) dresden

RobbyG wrote:

Kid is crazy by saying 8000 dirhams tax free isn't enough. Majority of people in Holland earn that as a salary AND pay 30 percent taxes of it. Then comes the 1,60 petrol per liter etc. etc.
The guys is NUTS and lives in a dreamworld

A few notes:
I think when UAE kid says 5k-8k will just not do it, he does not mean to live. He means it is not enticing enough to stimulate the majority of the local population to enter into the private sector.
Secondly,
Dubai is a relatively new place. It has not had the benefits of first class education systems until recent times (arguably not even now). It will take a few generations until the education system trickles down and the youth of today who are getting educated will see the youth of tomorrow follow the same path.. and so on and so on...
Eventually most local's will be fully educated (in one way or another) and be experts in various professions. I think that is a part of the dream and vision of the Ruling Sheik Mo.
Since the growth is relatively new, it is important to put into place certain systems to ensure prosperity for the future generations of the local population. I.e. quota's for hiring locals, etc. etc. Many of them are not qualified to do the work now; but that will not be forever. Look at it this way, it can be argued that the older arab population did not have the freedom to go to top notch schools etc. Therefore they are at a bit of a disadvantage compared to most expats who come from other well established countries. (Lets not get into specifics like expats lying about credentials, or take my statements as an insinuation that Arabs are dumb).
I'm willing to bet that a lot of companies would stray away from hiring locals if it were not for the law. It would be pretty sad to see Dubai filled with expats and no working locals. Not everyone works to live...
My perspective on how the system and Dubai itself works has taken a 180 turn in the last few months. I took a step back and looked at the bigger picture, and suddenly a lot of things started to make sense; whether I liked it or not.
Having said all of that, there are still a lot of things I disagree with. The most publicized is treatment of labourers and lack of free press. But I can understand why these things happen.
Just imagine if Robby was the newspaper journalist. LOL :o
Just kiddin Rob. uaekid oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them. I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right? and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ??? private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl. but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving. I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!. lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK. AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees. yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . . and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked naruto

dee7o wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  - worldguy wrote:
    they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
    This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
    Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
    Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
  This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
  yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
  Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
  disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards.

woow hold on ..
who said that locals are denying the GOV. faults ..the thing is we dont like it when some1 who didnt live in the country to come and point fingers on us about ..you know the term mind you own business..
im not refering to expact who live here ..im refering to so called RObby G..and yes i agree with the GOV. when they enforced the privet company to hire local , can u beleive that more than 50,000 locals are unemployed here in the land of opportinities , in the land where ppl with no education can become specialist in mejor fileds, the problem is with the privet company they give hight salary to some nationalities and they want to give locals less than them, plus they are hiring indians like locals do not exisit anymore..explain to me why we have a high rate on unemployment akthough we bring expact to work in our country.. dresden ^ Uaekid
Judging from the first sentence of your post, you obviously did not read mine in its entirety.

Lets not get into specifics like expats lying about credentials, or take my statements as an insinuation that Arabs are dumb

naruto

uaekid wrote:
oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked

This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here. Bora Bora

naruto wrote:
- uaekid wrote:
  oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
  I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
  and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
  private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
  but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
  I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
  lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
  and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
  AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
  yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
  and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked
This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here.

Between the two of you nothing you both say makes sense. naruto

Bora Bora wrote:
- naruto wrote:
  - uaekid wrote:
    oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
    I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
    and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
    private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
    but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
    I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
    lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
    and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
    AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
    yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
    and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked
  This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here.
Between the two of you nothing you both say makes sense.

and the reason is??? Bora Bora The both of you seem to always lose the plot and wander off somewhere that only the two of you know about. What are you talking about regarding the French visa? Or were you talking about the requirements to obtain the passport? If you are an expat and work in France speaking French is not a requirement nor do you have to go through a battery of tests or procedures. Nor do you need the speak French to get a travel visa and again no tests are required; procedures are submitting documentation requesting a visa. And are you saying that the UAE should expel expats because "they are taking over the jobs"? I am sure you are aware of the fact that there are more jobs than locals in Dubai, so expats are needed. I am not going to continue to point out the obvious to you. uaekid

Bora Bora wrote:
The both of you seem to always lose the plot and wander off somewhere that only the two of you know about.
What are you talking about regarding the French visa? Or were you talking about the requirements to obtain the passport? If you are an expat and work in France speaking French is not a requirement nor do you have to go through a battery of tests or procedures. Nor do you need the speak French to get a travel visa and again no tests are required; procedures are submitting documentation requesting a visa.
And are you saying that the UAE should expel expats because "they are taking over the jobs"? I am sure you are aware of the fact that there are more jobs than locals in Dubai, so expats are needed.
I am not going to continue to point out the obvious to you.

umm I thought there were judging the locals abilities in privet businesses so I responded to that ! Bora Bora

naruto wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
  - naruto wrote:
    - uaekid wrote:
      oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
      I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
      and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
      private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
      but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
      I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
      lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
      and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
      AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
      yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
      and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked
    This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here.
  Between the two of you nothing you both say makes sense.
and the reason is???

You and Naruto on the same page - different discussions.
FYI I have also been a strong supporter of locals being given opportunities, but life anywhere else, qualifications, education, experience count. Be realistic Kid, how many of these supposedly highly education, (un)experienced, (un)qualified locals could get employment say in the UK, Germany, US, Singapore? Unfortunately very, very few.
There are many expats in Dubai holding jobs that they are unqualified to do as well, although many years ago, most were unqualified. Actually they came from big companies that used Dubai as a "dumping" ground for those employees they didn't know what to do with so they sent them off to Dubai. Locals came out of (local) universities thinking that it was due them to start at the top of employment rather than work their way up.
This is one of the differences between Oman and Dubai. The Sultan told all locals that he would provide for them the highest education they sought. But when they returned they were to start at the bottom and learn the business up.
I am sure you have been to Oman and found Omanis doing work that few UAE locals would do. And they are very, very proud people, rightfully.
Things have changed and education, qualification, experience count now and in the future more than ever.
I had an HR Director in a govt company told me years ago: Most of the expats that are in Dubai are unemployable worldwide. They were kicked out of Saudi Arabia and came here because it was a developing country. Funny thing, he was from the UK and had been out of his country for many years. I guess he was one of the few who faced his own reality. sage & onion

Bora Bora wrote:
- naruto wrote:
  - Bora Bora wrote:
    - naruto wrote:
      - uaekid wrote:
        oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
        I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
        and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
        private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
        but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
        I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
        lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
        and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
        AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
        yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
        and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked
      This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here.
    Between the two of you nothing you both say makes sense.
  and the reason is???
You and Naruto on the same page - different discussions.
FYI I have also been a strong supporter of locals being given opportunities, but life anywhere else, qualifications, education, experience count. Be realistic Kid, how many of these supposedly highly education, (un)experienced, (un)qualified locals could get employment say in the UK, Germany, US, Singapore? Unfortunately very, very few.
There are many expats in Dubai holding jobs that they are unqualified to do as well, although many years ago, most were unqualified. Actually they came from big companies that used Dubai as a "dumping" ground for those employees they didn't know what to do with so they sent them off to Dubai. Locals came out of (local) universities thinking that it was due them to start at the top of employment rather than work their way up.
This is one of the differences between Oman and Dubai. The Sultan told all locals that he would provide for them the highest education they sought. But when they returned they were to start at the bottom and learn the business up.
I am sure you have been to Oman and found Omanis doing work that few UAE locals would do. And they are very, very proud people, rightfully.
Things have changed and education, qualification, experience count now and in the future more than ever.
I had an HR Director in a govt company told me years ago: Most of the expats that are in Dubai are unemployable worldwide. They were kicked out of Saudi Arabia and came here because it was a developing country. Funny thing, he was from the UK and had been out of his country for many years. I guess he was one of the few who faced his own reality.

Thats probably because he was kicked out. I personally do not subscribe to such generalisations. Bora Bora

sage & onion wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
  - naruto wrote:
    - Bora Bora wrote:
      - naruto wrote:
        uaekid wrote:
        oh god not again with the locals lazy and unqualified story again !! I believe 80% of the jobs here consists of administration and finance, give me a break ppl ,you are not exactly rocket scientists here. not to mention the mass numbers of fack degrees most of expats brings to the country. trust me if companies here do a back ground check on most of you and their CVs, you wont be working here neither. I got ton's of stories if you wana hear them.
        I understand some ppl defense toward the working locals and them starting to be a threat in taking over expat jobs, everyone is trying to survive after all, right?
        and in regard of the salary issue, you simply can not tell anyone how much is enough for him, it is a personal choice and goal, aren't all of you here to upgrade yours ???
        private companies don't want the locals as their employees simply bcz they prefer to 3000-4000 for an expat that a local with 15,000 and above to simply make more profit. it is a problem that those companies are using most of the expats as a cheap labor not bcz they are experts, face it ppl.
        but if the UAE will take an action regarding this issue like what KSA just did in hiring locals in privet businesses and the GOV is paying the the rest of the salary for the giving job, I'm sure I'll see many of you leaving.
        I seriously see locals more suitable for the jobs here than the expats, graduated from better schools,speaks arabic and english, less corrupted and may I add most of them are respectful to expats that an expat to another. for some reason you are more aggressive to each other than as you clam us to expats !!.
        lets take an example Banks runs mostly by locals , is there are any problems in banks ? they are running perfectly ,don't you think ? expats in banks are mostly telemarketing and speaks a poor English even worst than me LOL
        and look at the3 biggest investments companies in AD and probably top 10 world wide is also runs by 90% locals ,those companies if you don't know made a big diff in stabilizing the recession impact and in the UK.
        AD government within 5 years is to be one of the best 5 governments in the world with 100% local labors and they have reached 60% of this goal but yes by the on going further academic specialized education other than their degrees.
        yes some locals needs to improve their skills , the market needs diff kind of it and needs to varietals their degrees fields in order to keep up with the diff market changes, but don't you dare call them lazy or not up to the jobs here, they have proved to be better than expats . .
        and most of you really need to do the same ,make sometime to improve yourselves instead of crying on forum threads of why and how you lost your jobs and got sacked
        
        This is exactly what I wanted to say. In Europe, if you want to apply for a visa,you must succeed in several tests and undergoing a lot of procedures that identify the State in which those who to give the residence. For example, in France you must master the French language in order to get the visa, thats why we do not see a lot of Indians living there, and do not forget that France had expelled many of the migrants, especially the Arabs simply beacuz they are taking over most opf the jobs there therefor reducing employment opportunities, and this thing is happening here.
      Between the two of you nothing you both say makes sense.
    and the reason is???
  You and Naruto on the same page - different discussions.
  FYI I have also been a strong supporter of locals being given opportunities, but life anywhere else, qualifications, education, experience count. Be realistic Kid, how many of these supposedly highly education, (un)experienced, (un)qualified locals could get employment say in the UK, Germany, US, Singapore? Unfortunately very, very few.
  There are many expats in Dubai holding jobs that they are unqualified to do as well, although many years ago, most were unqualified. Actually they came from big companies that used Dubai as a "dumping" ground for those employees they didn't know what to do with so they sent them off to Dubai. Locals came out of (local) universities thinking that it was due them to start at the top of employment rather than work their way up.
  This is one of the differences between Oman and Dubai. The Sultan told all locals that he would provide for them the highest education they sought. But when they returned they were to start at the bottom and learn the business up.
  I am sure you have been to Oman and found Omanis doing work that few UAE locals would do. And they are very, very proud people, rightfully.
  Things have changed and education, qualification, experience count now and in the future more than ever.
  I had an HR Director in a govt company told me years ago: Most of the expats that are in Dubai are unemployable worldwide. They were kicked out of Saudi Arabia and came here because it was a developing country. Funny thing, he was from the UK and had been out of his country for many years. I guess he was one of the few who faced his own reality.
Thats probably because he was kicked out. I personally do not subscribe to such generalisations.

That was him talking, not me! RobbyG

uaekid wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
  The both of you seem to always lose the plot and wander off somewhere that only the two of you know about.
  What are you talking about regarding the French visa? Or were you talking about the requirements to obtain the passport? If you are an expat and work in France speaking French is not a requirement nor do you have to go through a battery of tests or procedures. Nor do you need the speak French to get a travel visa and again no tests are required; procedures are submitting documentation requesting a visa.
  And are you saying that the UAE should expel expats because "they are taking over the jobs"? I am sure you are aware of the fact that there are more jobs than locals in Dubai, so expats are needed.
  I am not going to continue to point out the obvious to you.
umm I thought there were judging the locals abilities in privet businesses so I responded to that !

You THOUGHT wrong...again. Try to be less assumptive. Trust me, gains more respect! ;) dee7o

naruto wrote:
- dee7o wrote:
  - uaekid wrote:
    - worldguy wrote:
      they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
      This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
      Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
      Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
    This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
    yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
    Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
    disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
  If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
  I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards.
woow hold on ..
who said that locals are denying the GOV. faults ..the thing is we dont like it when some1 who didnt live in the country to come and point fingers on us about ..you know the term mind you own business..
im not refering to expact who live here ..im refering to so called RObby G..and yes i agree with the GOV. when they enforced the privet company to hire local , can u beleive that more than 50,000 locals are unemployed here in the land of opportinities , in the land where ppl with no education can become specialist in mejor fileds, the problem is with the privet company they give hight salary to some nationalities and they want to give locals less than them, plus they are hiring indians like locals do not exisit anymore..explain to me why we have a high rate on unemployment akthough we bring expact to work in our country..

Do you have any idea why 50,000 locals are unemployed? You yourself say it's the land of opportunities, so why? Please don't tell me people don't employ locals because they have a bad image about them. Even if that were true, why don't locals employ locals?!?!?! It's not for lack of business owners, that's for sure sage & onion

dee7o wrote:
- naruto wrote:
  - dee7o wrote:
    - uaekid wrote:
      - worldguy wrote:
        they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
        This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
        Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
        Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
      This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
      yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
      Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
      disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
    If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
    I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards.
  woow hold on ..
  who said that locals are denying the GOV. faults ..the thing is we dont like it when some1 who didnt live in the country to come and point fingers on us about ..you know the term mind you own business..
  im not refering to expact who live here ..im refering to so called RObby G..and yes i agree with the GOV. when they enforced the privet company to hire local , can u beleive that more than 50,000 locals are unemployed here in the land of opportinities , in the land where ppl with no education can become specialist in mejor fileds, the problem is with the privet company they give hight salary to some nationalities and they want to give locals less than them, plus they are hiring indians like locals do not exisit anymore..explain to me why we have a high rate on unemployment akthough we bring expact to work in our country..
Do you have any idea why 50,000 locals are unemployed? You yourself say it's the land of opportunities, so why? Please don't tell me people don't employ locals because they have a bad image about them. Even if that were true, why don't locals employ locals?!?!?! It's not for lack of business owners, that's for sure

Where do you get your numbers from? Bora Bora I guess one good example is the locals that Al Fattim (sp?) let go during the bit redundency a few months ago, and they went to court and because of that employment laws were changed. Why so many don't want to work? Welfare mentality. Why should I get out of bed and work when all I have to do is go to the bank and make sure the government deposited my monthly stipend. Or: all the government jobs are taken. The government placement office: Over 10,000 registered and many have probably been registered since the office opened 8 years ago. Very, very few get placed. But there are those few who take training courses and take a job knowing that they will have to work and learn in order to succeed. Most don't even show up for arranged interviews. sage & onion

Bora Bora wrote:
I guess one good example is the locals that Al Fattim (sp?) let go during the bit redundency a few months ago, and they went to court and because of that employment laws were changed.
Why so many don't want to work? Welfare mentality. Why should I get out of bed and work when all I have to do is go to the bank and make sure the government deposited my monthly stipend. Or: all the government jobs are taken.
The government placement office: Over 10,000 registered and many have probably been registered since the office opened 8 years ago. Very, very few get placed. But there are those few who take training courses and take a job knowing that they will have to work and learn in order to succeed. Most don't even show up for arranged interviews.

To be honest, with the example of Al Futaim that you gave, if you had your own Company who would you employ? naruto

Bora Bora wrote:
The both of you seem to always lose the plot and wander off somewhere that only the two of you know about.
What are you talking about regarding the French visa? Or were you talking about the requirements to obtain the passport? If you are an expat and work in France speaking French is not a requirement nor do you have to go through a battery of tests or procedures. Nor do you need the speak French to get a travel visa and again no tests are required; procedures are submitting documentation requesting a visa.
And are you saying that the UAE should expel expats because "they are taking over the jobs"? I am sure you are aware of the fact that there are more jobs than locals in Dubai, so expats are needed.
I am not going to continue to point out the obvious to you.

yes there are rules and regulation and requuirment to obtain the visa not the passport.. this rule was applied by the new prim minister of france to kick morrocans and tunisians , a friend i know who was kicked from there told me about it. naruto

sage & onion wrote:
- dee7o wrote:
  - naruto wrote:
    - dee7o wrote:
      - uaekid wrote:
        worldguy wrote:
        they will when the value of the oil starts to drop and they will need expat money to run the show. Otherwise the rich emiratis will just move to Europe or US and leave the rest behind.
        This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
        Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
        Currently the government is sharing their wealth with locals by making them come to work rather than sit at home.
        
        This is a serious issue with this place and if they really want UAE to progress than they need to give talent a consideration. They could start by giving citizenship to doctors, scientist, R&D specialist ... otherwise the base will stay weak.
        yes yes and yes but what they are doing now is sending the upoard local students toUS,UK and Aus to study those fields, an approximate of 100 locals graduate a year, small number but it is a start. and no more business studies.
        Secondly they need to ensure that locals do not get jobs on platter. Otherwise, they are just creating locals to be less competitive to expats. This is apparent from stories running in various news papers, re why locals do not want to work in private sector.
        disagree here, locals worked in or started working in privet business but the pay is just not enough. 5000-8000 just won't do it
      If locals were integrated into the private sector and entered it like anyone else then I would say fine. Instead Dubai has quotas forcing people to hire locals. This is in spite of the fact that all ethics of HR and recruiting used all over the world should not discriminate by race, gender, religion, etc. Besides if 5000-8000 just "won't do it" for locals, why are there people here still being paid 700 dhs per month?
      I defend Dubai when defence is due and I have had my share of arguments with ppl on this forum who will attest to that but you can't call a pineapple a hedgehog and expect people to respect your opinion. Defending your country is one thing but denying its biggest faults even exist is plain hypocrisy that only sets your country backwards.
    woow hold on ..
    who said that locals are denying the GOV. faults ..the thing is we dont like it when some1 who didnt live in the country to come and point fingers on us about ..you know the term mind you own business..
    im not refering to expact who live here ..im refering to so called RObby G..and yes i agree with the GOV. when they enforced the privet company to hire local , can u beleive that more than 50,000 locals are unemployed here in the land of opportinities , in the land where ppl with no education can become specialist in mejor fileds, the problem is with the privet company they give hight salary to some nationalities and they want to give locals less than them, plus they are hiring indians like locals do not exisit anymore..explain to me why we have a high rate on unemployment akthough we bring expact to work in our country..
  Do you have any idea why 50,000 locals are unemployed? You yourself say it's the land of opportunities, so why? Please don't tell me people don't employ locals because they have a bad image about them. Even if that were true, why don't locals employ locals?!?!?! It's not for lack of business owners, that's for sure
Where do you get your numbers from?

i will do the math for you
0.05*950,000=47500..approximatly .. Red Chief

naruto wrote:

i will do the math for you
0.05*950,000=47500..approximatly ..

IMO You should have also told us what percent of local males and females can read and write before doing such kind of a math based on the source in Arabic. Bora Bora

sage & onion wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
  I guess one good example is the locals that Al Fattim (sp?) let go during the bit redundency a few months ago, and they went to court and because of that employment laws were changed.
  Why so many don't want to work? Welfare mentality. Why should I get out of bed and work when all I have to do is go to the bank and make sure the government deposited my monthly stipend. Or: all the government jobs are taken.
  The government placement office: Over 10,000 registered and many have probably been registered since the office opened 8 years ago. Very, very few get placed. But there are those few who take training courses and take a job knowing that they will have to work and learn in order to succeed. Most don't even show up for arranged interviews.
To be honest, with the example of Al Futaim that you gave, if you had your own Company who would you employ?

I think they were given an opportunity and failed to deliver on it. I have seen/worked with locals who are ambitious and those who could care less. And for those who cared less they were probably physically there so that they could get their monthly gratuity from the government as their reward for working. sage & onion

Bora Bora wrote:
- sage & onion wrote:
  - Bora Bora wrote:
    I guess one good example is the locals that Al Fattim (sp?) let go during the bit redundency a few months ago, and they went to court and because of that employment laws were changed.
    Why so many don't want to work? Welfare mentality. Why should I get out of bed and work when all I have to do is go to the bank and make sure the government deposited my monthly stipend. Or: all the government jobs are taken.
    The government placement office: Over 10,000 registered and many have probably been registered since the office opened 8 years ago. Very, very few get placed. But there are those few who take training courses and take a job knowing that they will have to work and learn in order to succeed. Most don't even show up for arranged interviews.
  To be honest, with the example of Al Futaim that you gave, if you had your own Company who would you employ?
I think they were given an opportunity and failed to deliver on it. I have seen/worked with locals who are ambitious and those who could care less. And for those who cared less they were probably physically there so that they could get their monthly gratuity from the government as their reward for working.

You still didn't really answer my question. sharib_gk86@yahoo.co.uk Edited - MOD