This is just an observation of mine.
Whats your take?
Let's assume you are born in one country (India) and lived there for a 2 years, then moved to another country (England) and lived there for the rest of your life.
Then you move to Dubai and you encounter 2 types of people who ask you where you are from:
[color=red] What do you tell them? [/color]
My observations:
The one asking you is NOT from India:
You introduce yourself and say you are from England. They say you don't look like someone from there, then you explain its because you werent born there, but raised there. But you come off like you are trying to hide the fact that you are from India and are embarassed of it.
OR
You introduce yourself as an Indian, and often get "stereotyped" right after that (see facts about indians thread).
The one asking you is from India
Introduce yourself as someone from England. They roll their eyes because you apparently are trying to be "better" than them or coming off as being "fake".
OR
You tell them you are Indian, and then they suddenly get a chip on their shoulder and think you are "white-washed".
I'm basing these observations solely on the Dubai mentality. I've noticed it is FAR more prominent here than anywhere else I've been. And I've travelled a fair bit.
Discuss? Let's try and [color=green]keep it clean [/color]with no personal attacks (even toward PP). gamercowboy I'm sort of in the same boat. I just tell people the short story: I was born in the Philippines but I was raised here. After that, I let my actions do the talking and I would hope that their impression of me as a person is borne from that rather than specific prejudices. portland hahah i know where you got it dresden , isnt it from karans rants on the facts abt. indian thread... dresden :) And Busa's reply with his son dating a Canadian/Indian girl. portland :wink: check out the facts abt. indian threads again, theres a new rant now its zukku...hehehe Bora Bora I guess this poll can only be answered by those of Indian descent. Off topic I know, but I, for one, have gotten used to the fact that there are Indians who hold British passports, and Canadian and US passports for that matter, as I have gotten used to the fact that there are many Arabs who hold British, Canadian, US and even French passports. So, if someone is clearly of another "nationality" and tells me that they are from another country, and by looking at them and listening to them speak, I can assume that they are generational or are hypenated-passport holders of the country they claim as their nationality and to which they have citizenship. But how do you identify yourself when one holds dual passports? For example: if you are Egyptian and hold an Egyptian passport and the US passport. Are you Egyptian when it's convenient, American when it is convenient? How do you serve the country you were born in and continue to be a citizen of the country that you have adopted and given you citizenship? portland Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is. These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda. Speedhump Hey, English speaking forum, please translate or delete....? Bora Bora
- portland wrote:
Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is.
These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda.
:? :? :roll:
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Captain Australia Why not just say "I was born in India but I grew up in England" ? portland
- Bora Bora wrote:
- portland wrote:
Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is.
These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda.
:? :? :roll: - portland wrote:
what? im expressing my opinions here any problems with it....ggeeeeessssshhhhhhhh im bored....... Speedhump
- portland wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
- portland wrote:
Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is.
These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda.
:? :? :roll: - portland wrote:
what? im expressing my opinions here any problems with it....ggeeeeessssshhhhhhhh im bored....... - Bora Bora wrote:
I do. I asked you to write in English on an English speaking forum, and I'm serious. dresden
- Captain Australia wrote:
Why not just say "I was born in India but I grew up in England" ?
I was waiting for someone to say that...
Bora, I picked those countries for a reason, but you can feel free to vote as you choose if you were in that particular situation.
The issue is very deep seeded. From my studies (psych minor), it is much more than just an inferiority complex. It also has to do with cultural identity and enthocentricism.
For mere example (in my uni-experiment I did many moons ago), Eastern European's and Europeans in general are far more likely to associate themeselves with their home country, even if it is through ancestry as compared to those from Asia. I found that most europeans who have been born in Canada, or spent the majority of their lives in Canada would still refer to themselves as European (Ie. Spanish, Russian, Serbian, French etc.). Also found that most test subjects from the Asian continent chose to represent themselves from the country where they held citizenship, regardless of the amount of time they have spent there....
-----
For anyone interested, 120 people of various nationalities were interviewed in order to get a proper statistic. Also have to take into consideration discrimination in Canada differ's from that Dubai, so the results cannot be directly applied, but the understanding/findings behind it can explain cultural identity in any part of the world. :idea: busa I is mostly an alien from planet zog,but due to my devil may care attitude,my stiff.....upper lip and my all around fantasticness people automaticly assume that i am English. Not that you would guess it though with my unique skill at speeeling most words wrong dresden
- portland wrote:
Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is.
These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda.
If you have something of value to add, please do so in english. That way we can all understand each other. After all, Passports are not the only things man created to seperate each other...
P.s, In ancient days, it was no different. Certain "tribes" were held in higher regard than others. Do a little reading on ancient civilizations and you will understand what I mean. portland
- dresden wrote:
- portland wrote:
Usually passports are just papers, its only us who divided and made bounderies to the earth. during the ancient age anybody can be anybody and they only belong to tribes. but people who will deny the facts abt. their origin or what their nationality is.
These kind of people i consider as no better than a smelly fish. - AKA RIZAL ang hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika/bayan, daig pa ang malansang isda.
If you have something of value to add, please do so in english. That way we can all understand each other. After all, Passports are not the only things man created to seperate each other...
P.s, In ancient days, it was no different. Certain "tribes" were held in higher regard than others. Do a little reading on ancient civilizations and you will understand what I mean. - portland wrote:
In regards to the hierachy in the society and tribes, i have no queston in it, its been there and it is also present from any form of life here on earth.
What im pertaining is during the past anybody can travel and settle anywhere and your origin is your identity. not like now where if a person gets a passport from other countries, they try to deny their origins. dresden Lets get back on track. Passports are the tip of the iceberg. It has more to do with one's culture/skin color than just a passport (think outside of Dubai). kanelli If you hold dual citizenship then say you are Indian/English. Alternatively, say English, but was born in India if you feel more English than Indian - which is likely if you lived the rest of your life in England as opposed to India.
- kanelli wrote:
If you hold dual citizenship then say you are Indian/English. Alternatively, say English, but was born in India if you feel more English than Indian - which is likely if you lived the rest of your life in England as opposed to India.
Now, What if you are born in NY, but lived in Toronto for 99% of your life. Lets say you are travelling to Spain. If someone asks you where you are from, do you say US or do you say Canada? Speedhump :D I thought that after I saw it in print too! :o gamercowboy
- dresden wrote:
- kanelli wrote:
If you hold dual citizenship then say you are Indian/English. Alternatively, say English, but was born in India if you feel more English than Indian - which is likely if you lived the rest of your life in England as opposed to India.
Now, What if you are born in NY, but lived in Toronto for 99% of your life. Lets say you are travelling to Spain. If someone asks you where you are from, do you say US or do you say Canada? - kanelli wrote:
Depends on who's president at the time. Speedhump LOL farthestpoint When one is brown-skinned, isn't it funny to say that "I'm American/British?" My brother once told me, after debating not to name his soon to be born son "Manolo" (FYI, Manolo is an ancient-ancient Filipino name that originated from the Spaniards, and reason of me arguing not to name his son as such is because the child will be bullied in school later on -- because ofcourse of the current generations that had now revolved around the country): "Why do you want me to name my son John (He meant like John Kennedy)? His skin is brown!" I just shut-up, he's right -- though I have a point about bullying. zukku
- portland wrote:
:wink: check out the facts abt. indian threads again, theres a new rant now its zukku...hehehe
"New Rant" : who are ya? dresden
- farthestpoint wrote:
When one is brown-skinned, isn't it funny to say that "I'm American/British?"
My brother once told me, after debating not to name his soon to be born son "Manolo" (FYI, Manolo is an ancient-ancient Filipino name that originated from the Spaniards, and reason of me arguing not to name his son as such is because the child will be bullied in school later on -- because ofcourse of the current generations that had now revolved around the country):
"Why do you want me to name my son John (He meant like John Kennedy)? His skin is brown!"
I just shut-up, he's right -- though I have a point about bullying.
But thats the point.... Skin color does NOT have anything to do with a person's nationality!
Will a African American person living in the US say they are not American? Heck no!
When they have a conscription crisis, if you are a citizen, You can and WILL be drafted for the army. Does not matter how long you have been a citizen. Now would you argue that a person not born in the US should be left out of being forced to joint the Army???
(Conscription means getting automatically selected to join army at time of a war crisi; see: ) farthestpoint
- dresden wrote:
- farthestpoint wrote:
When one is brown-skinned, isn't it funny to say that "I'm American/British?"
My brother once told me, after debating not to name his soon to be born son "Manolo" (FYI, Manolo is an ancient-ancient Filipino name that originated from the Spaniards, and reason of me arguing not to name his son as such is because the child will be bullied in school later on -- because ofcourse of the current generations that had now revolved around the country):
"Why do you want me to name my son John (He meant like John Kennedy)? His skin is brown!"
I just shut-up, he's right -- though I have a point about bullying.
But thats the point.... Skin color does NOT have anything to do with a person's nationality!
Will a African American person living in the US say they are not American? Heck no!
When they have a conscription crisis, if you are a citizen, You can and WILL be drafted for the army. Does not matter how long you have been a citizen. Now would you argue that a person not born in the US should be left out of being forced to joint the Army???
(Conscription means getting automatically selected to join army at time of a war crisi; see: ) - farthestpoint wrote:
You are right about that Dresden, and I agree with you completely.
However, we live in a world where most people misjudge one another.
No matter how much we try to avoid racism, it's a disease -- and it takes a wise man to understand that...and nationality is part of it. dresden Yes, your last line is completely true. I started this thread in hopes of seeing responses and thought processes. There isn't necessairly a wrong answer, but its the reasoning that i'm interested in seeing. Misery Called Life So dresden what conclusions have yo made so far? And what your reasoning behind such a thread? dresden Not nearly enough responses to conclude anything. If you read my original post, I started this thread after a couple of other ones, just to see how people would react in that particular situation. Whatcha think? busa western sahara,i feel so blessed Speedhump OMG, what are you a rigger? farthestpoint My view about this matter is simple: People in general tends to feed their own ego and by doing so, they want to justify to themselves (even subconsciously) -- sometimes bluntly to others that they are better than the other. It's human nature. We can't do anything about it. However, the thing that we have control over of, is to treat other human being with respect (meaning, even if I think I am better than you, there is no point in me bragging about it and emotionally hurting you at the same time). This applies to both sides -- the person being questioned about his nationality and the person putting the questions forward. Say for example that I am a person who was born in the Philippines and raised in France, and had been asked "Where are you from?" "I am originally from the Philippines, grew up and raised in France." said in a tone that is humble, straightforward but not bragging. What do you think the other person will think? Read above. I guess you know the answer. Speedhump You're four hours behind the UAE timezone then, where are you, the Azores?? kanelli I think the default should be the country you have spent most of your life in and have a matching passport for. That alone should make a person comfortably say they are from that country, not the racial background etc. or what country is on their birth certificate. Speedhump He might even say he's Indo-British if he wants the best (and worst!) of both worlds?
Dre, the poll gave too few choices maybe. I answered 'Indian' though for sake of helping.
What is wrong is that there is a fear in the guy in your scenario giving his answer, in case the person asking just wants to know if they are 'superior' in race. I guess people like this do exist because this thread is full of this notion. I've never knowingly experienced racial discrimination against myself, and I hope that's because I try to meet everyone equally, from workmen who come to my home to fix something, to Arab dignitaries.
I'm not saying that subconsciously I don't have pre-conceived notions about racial characteristics, but I fight that idea when I meet people. Whatever may be true broadly of a race (and such characteristics do often exist, as a wide notion and a percentage of population - Singaporeans being ultra hard working for example, my long personal experience really bears that out), it cannot just be applied unthinkingly to individuals.
I do ask people 'where are you from?' but out of pure curiosity, so I can ask them about their country or their experiences. My response to their reply would not be a sour face or a harsh word. The ONLY things that matter are their personality and actions. There are many intelligent Indians, peaceful Israelis. humble Brits, quiet Americans, etc etc. To judge people on the basis of their nationality is the occupation of those of lower intelligence. To educate those of lower intelligence must be the occupation of those with more grey matter.
I say lower intelligence rather than lack of experience, because in general only people of lower intelligence will try to judge others on the basis of racial sterotypes without having sufficient personal experience to make a valid judgement.
++
My definition of intelligence for above purposes is: Intelligence is a person's capacity to (1) acquire knowledge (i.e. learn and understand), (2) apply knowledge (solve problems), and (3) engage in abstract reasoning . It is the power of one's intellect, and as such is clearly a very important aspect of one's overall well-being. Psychologists have attempted to measure it for well over a century.
Stolen from http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/intelligence.html :)
++ busa Jeez mate thats a bit heavy for a Friday morning :coffee: Red Chief I don't know exactly but I guess that question "Where are you from?" is not polite in the West. Correct me please if it's not right. Contrary it's the most common question in Dubai and a man who asks such a question is waiting for definite reply which matches his/her stereotype. I understand why this poll is about Indians because they racially differ from Westerners. I don't think it won't be a problem when the guy is starting to reply in good English language. Everybody understand immediately where he/she is from. I frequently met Canadians of Persian origin in Dubai and after a short talk I forgot that my partner was from other racial group and culture. In my case, as I from the same racial group as Westerners, many people are waiting from me for some Western European country as a reply. Sometimes I name a small European country, sometimes Russia. If I tell the truth people think that I jeer at them because their stereotype about Russians doesn't match my appearance and behavior. I think it's the question of personal self-identification. Who is Mr.Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google? Russian man or Jew? Of course he is American. Thanks God, that I don't have such a dilemma. :D :D :D Speedhump
- busa wrote:
Jeez mate thats a bit heavy for a Friday morning :coffee:
:D You can just tell I had a quiet night in (as opposed to a great night out, Smashey...). Speedhump
- Red Chief wrote:
I don't know exactly but I guess that question "Where are you from?" is not polite in the West. Correct me please if it's not right.
Some people do not like to be asked. I presume they have their own internal conflicts/shame. But in Dubai where we are all from somewhere else, it is normal and usually accepted as you say. I even ask local-looking dish-dash wearers if they are Emirati as they could be Omani, etc, I'm only curious and mean no harm.
- Quote:
Contrary it's the most common question in Dubai and a man who asks such a question is waiting for definite reply which matches his/her stereotype.
As you say, it is the problem that people are looking for stereotypes, to reinforce their own prejudices.
- Quote:
I understand why this poll is about Indians because they racially differ from Westerners.
I don't think it won't be a problem when the guy is starting to reply in good English language. Everybody understand immediately where he/she is from.
I frequently met Canadians of Persian origin in Dubai and after a short talk I forgot that my partner was from other racial group and culture.
You take people for what they are and not for how you expect them to be, that's good.
- Quote:
In my case, as I from the same racial group as Westerners, many people are waiting from me for some Western European country as a reply. Sometimes I name a small European country, sometimes Russia.
If I tell the truth people think that I jeer at them because their stereotype about Russians doesn't match my appearance and behavior.
I tan easily and have dark hair so I get mistaken for a local in many hot countries. It doesn't offend me and means I can get good service in bars and restaurants! :D. But when they ask I always say truthfully I am English.
- Quote:
I think it's the question of personal self-identification. Who is Mr.Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google? Russian man or Jew? Of course he is American.
Americans anyway are proud of their mixed heritage. Let's face it even the British are a mongrel race, until 1000 years ago we were invaded and interbred by many other European countries . :D
- Quote:
Thanks God, that I don't have such a dilemma.
:D :D :D
- Speedhump wrote:
He might even say he's Indo-British if he wants the best (and worst!) of both worlds?
Dre, the poll gave too few choices maybe. I answered 'Indian' though for sake of helping.
What is wrong is that there is a fear in the guy in your scenario giving his answer, in case the person asking just wants to know if they are 'superior' in race. I guess people like this do exist because this thread is full of this notion. I've never knowingly experienced racial discrimination against myself, and I hope that's because I try to meet everyone equally, from workmen who come to my home to fix something, to Arab dignitaries.
I'm not saying that subconsciously I don't have pre-conceived notions about racial characteristics, but I fight that idea when I meet people. Whatever may be true broadly of a race (and such characteristics do often exist, as a wide notion and a percentage of population - Singaporeans being ultra hard working for example, my long personal experience really bears that out), it cannot just be applied unthinkingly to individuals.
I do ask people 'where are you from?' but out of pure curiosity, so I can ask them about their country or their experiences. My response to their reply would not be a sour face or a harsh word. The ONLY things that matter are their personality and actions. There are many intelligent Indians, peaceful Israelis. humble Brits, quiet Americans, etc etc. To judge people on the basis of their nationality is the occupation of those of lower intelligence. To educate those of lower intelligence must be the occupation of those with more grey matter.
I say lower intelligence rather than lack of experience, because in general only people of lower intelligence will try to judge others on the basis of racial sterotypes without having sufficient personal experience to make a valid judgement.
++
My definition of intelligence for above purposes is: Intelligence is a person's capacity to (1) acquire knowledge (i.e. learn and understand), (2) apply knowledge (solve problems), and (3) engage in abstract reasoning . It is the power of one's intellect, and as such is clearly a very important aspect of one's overall well-being. Psychologists have attempted to measure it for well over a century.
Stolen from http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/intelligence.html :)
++
Thumbs to you SH. puppypup I get asked "Where are you from?" I answer "Florida" because many times we Americans want to know the State or region. Are you a Yankee, Southerner, or Midwesterner. Yet bizarro people ask "No, where are you from originally?" I'm like okay "I was born in Cali but Florida is where I grew up." Then they have the nerve to ask where my parents are from. Excuse me but what do my parents have to do with anything unless they are standing next to me and you want to get to know them instead of me? Anyway I answer their question..."Cali and NY" Then they get so weird and sometimes look upset. Then they want to know where my grandparents are from. So I anwer the same States and Iowa. It's really strange but always want to know the nationalities and cultures of my great or great-great or more great grandparents but never care what MY nationality is. :? How am I supposed to know about the lives of dead people from 150 years + ago? It's not like I'm royalty and can look at manuscripts and paintings. Yet people expect me to know where my immigrant ancestors came from and such. Why is this? :? puppypup
- farthestpoint wrote:
When one is brown-skinned, isn't it funny to say that "I'm American/British?"
brown skin is such a typical American look. Native-Americans are a reddish brown color or various colors for that matter. Lots of Americans of any race like to get a tan. The US is swarming with brown skin. If you're specifying Filipinos well those of Filipino descent have been in the US for around 200 years. They're the first documented Asian on American soil before the Chinese and Japanese so Filipino, Chinese, and Japanese looks are a very "old school American look." Bora Bora Will someone get Puppypoop off my back please?
- Bora Bora wrote:
Will someone get Puppypoop off my back please?
We've three piceteers of DFs
:lol: :lol: K-Dog
- puppypup wrote:
I get asked "Where are you from?" I answer "Florida" because many times we Americans want to know the State or region. Are you a Yankee, Southerner, or Midwesterner.
Yet bizarro people ask "No, where are you from originally?" I'm like okay "I was born in Cali but Florida is where I grew up." Then they have the nerve to ask where my parents are from. Excuse me but what do my parents have to do with anything unless they are standing next to me and you want to get to know them instead of me? Anyway I answer their question..."Cali and NY" Then they get so weird and sometimes look upset. Then they want to know where my grandparents are from. So I anwer the same States and Iowa.
It's really strange but always want to know the nationalities and cultures of my great or great-great or more great grandparents but never care what MY nationality is. :? How am I supposed to know about the lives of dead people from 150 years + ago? It's not like I'm royalty and can look at manuscripts and paintings. Yet people expect me to know where my immigrant ancestors came from and such.
Why is this? :?
Could it be due to the fact that your a nut and look Philipino?
Florida is full of Cubans and I bet when Mel Martinez says that he is from Florida nobody asks him "where" he is from. Same goes for Mexicans in Cali. I can understand somebody asking Arnold Schawrzneger that question and he culd rightly say he is "from" Austria (even though he is the Chief Executive of the great state of CA) but trust me millions of hard working people who Ceasar Chavez stood for are just as "Americans" as anyone else.
So just get it through your thick head that the problem is with you not EVERYBODY you come across. Think about it, they are not all crazy. We may call the incident where an Arab thought you looked like a maid, an isolated incident but what about all those "bizarro" people you meet everyday. Speedhump
- WhiteJade wrote:
- Bora Bora wrote:
Will someone get Puppypoop off my back please?
We've three piceteers of DFs
:lol: :lol: - Bora Bora wrote:
picketers? ;) Speedhump
- K-Dog wrote:
- puppypup wrote:
I get asked "Where are you from?" I answer "Florida" because many times we Americans want to know the State or region. Are you a Yankee, Southerner, or Midwesterner.
Yet bizarro people ask "No, where are you from originally?" I'm like okay "I was born in Cali but Florida is where I grew up." Then they have the nerve to ask where my parents are from. Excuse me but what do my parents have to do with anything unless they are standing next to me and you want to get to know them instead of me? Anyway I answer their question..."Cali and NY" Then they get so weird and sometimes look upset. Then they want to know where my grandparents are from. So I anwer the same States and Iowa.
It's really strange but always want to know the nationalities and cultures of my great or great-great or more great grandparents but never care what MY nationality is. :? How am I supposed to know about the lives of dead people from 150 years + ago? It's not like I'm royalty and can look at manuscripts and paintings. Yet people expect me to know where my immigrant ancestors came from and such.
Why is this? :?
Could it be due to the fact that your a nut and look Philipino?
Florida is full of Cubans and I bet when Mel Martinez says that he is from Florida nobody asks him "where" he is from. Same goes for Mexicans in Cali. I can understand somebody asking Arnold Schawrzneger that question and he culd rightly say he is "from" Austria (even though he is the Chief Executive of the great state of CA) but trust me millions of hard working people who Ceasar Chavez stood for are just as "Americans" as anyone else.
So just get it through your thick head that the problem is with you not EVERYBODY you come across. Think about it, they are not all crazy. We may call the incident where an Arab thought you looked like a maid, an isolated incident but what about all those "bizarro" people you meet everyday. - puppypup wrote:
LOL 'It's not me, it's all the others...' :D :D Speedhump it's not the crowds I can't stand; it's the individuals IN in the crowds.... karans Interesting post. I say I am Indian, but settled in UK. I enjoy the British and Indian cultures and would want my next generation to learn from both. Hope they turn into hippies by mixing meditation, boom shive with Indie Pop music. Speedhump
- karans wrote:
Interesting post. I say I am Indian, but settled in UK. I enjoy the British and Indian cultures and would want my next generation to learn from both. Hope they turn into hippies by mixing meditation, boom shive with Indie Pop music.
I like that :) Bora Bora
- karans wrote:
Interesting post. I say I am Indian, but settled in UK. I enjoy the British and Indian cultures and would want my next generation to learn from both. Hope they turn into hippies by mixing meditation, boom shive with Indie Pop music.
Will be well-rounded to say the least.