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Dubai Expat Forum - Dubai politics talk

The great misunderstanding between the West and East


dubai1970
I concur with your statement "To cure something, one has to understand its root causes. ". Very true and trust me every one knows about them and also knows that solving the root causes will eventually solve most of the world problems, but to be honest thats what they would never want to resolve? why? Because these root causes are blessings for these forces to execute their agenda from all perspectives (economic, military, social, etc).
Look at the Muslim world, do you think that the rulers actually represent people thoughts? I am not even talking about western democracy to be implemented in the Muslim countries.
Let me ask you a question, You have talked about the issue of Israel and Palestine, can you please tell me a workable solution of the conflict?
Cheers
Humbleman Very good thought dubai1970 We know that Europe will not take the Jewish whom imported from there back no matter what. So Israel is here to stay. The problem with Israel is that, it wants it all - greed and overconfidence are bad combination, they often lead to disaster. I see the French President Nicolas Sarkozy peace solution is somehow practical to end this conflict – but unfortunately Israel has brushed it aside. Here is some of his peace solution speech "The time to make peace is now," he told the Israelis. "Tomorrow, it will be too late." Rarely has a foreign leader spelled out so clearly what Israel has to do for peace - and what it has sought at all costs to avoid. Sarkozy laid particular emphasis on three points, which he hammered in at every opportunity. The first, and most important, was this: "Israel's security will not be truly assured until we see, at last, at its side an independent, modern, democratic and viable Palestinian state." Two other themes were given equal prominence - and were equally unwelcome to many Israelis. "There can be no peace without an immediate and complete halt to settlements," he declared. The settlers, he said, should be compensated and brought back to Israel. And then - in a statement which was nothing less than sacrilege for Israeli hard-liners - he added: "There can be no peace without recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of two states and the guarantee of free access to the holy places for all religions." Humbleman I am lucky enough to have lived within a Muslim culture especially a Gulf culture and within a Western culture, and frankly the two are very dear to me. Over the years, I’ve learnt to combine the good things of the two great cultures to form who I’m, and discarded the unpleasant ones. I can relate to the West’s concerns about terrorism and security, and at the same time I can relate to Muslims’ concerns of what’s happening. From my experiences, I found that most of people in the West love peace and safety, just like Muslims and Arabs. I also found the two are similar from a human’s perspective; they both share similar desires in life, well-being, prosperous, kids, peace etc. However, both side’ cultures are the prime guidance of how to go about achieving the mentioned desires, just like any others people on this earth. But what I found interesting is this: Ordinary civilians in the West see attacks by terrorisms are an attack on their culture, committed by those who hate their way of life and hate them as people, period. On the other hand, most Muslims people throughout the world see the unconditional supports by the US government and the unexplainable silent by some Western governments at the injustice and death of the innocent Palestinians are unjust and unacceptable, and frankly they see the US government as liable as the Israeli of what has been happening to the Palestinians. Media have always give us full analysis when some American lunatics /terrorists go on rampage shooting students at Universities, we always got told of what drove them to commit such crime etc and even analysis of their personal behaviours. But when it comes to a terrorist attack, ordinary people never get told why would people commit such a crime. For some reason we don’t get told of what drove them to do such thing in the first place. To cure something, one has to understand its root causes. Instead the media deliberately used such an attack and twist it around to make us to believe that what has been happening between the West and East is a fight against religions and civilizations. Why because the media clearly know that these are the things that are important to people and would easily react to them. The media have failed to tell us the truth; the simple truth that what has been happening is all to do with dirty politics and injustice, which have turned our world into fear and insecurity. It’s no brainer to see how Muslims, Christian, Jewish and other religions and cultures have lived side by side whether in the West or East peacefully and respectfully –because humans are compassionate toward one another by nature. But when unscrupulous politicians play up the interest of certain groups of people against another, then the doors of discord and hate are widely open. Politicians know that, they resort to this detrimental technique when they want to achieve certain agendas. The conflict between Palestine and Israel has to be put to an end, because it’s been the prime causes of all the major problems, especially terrorism. Otherwise it will forces the West to give up the values that they’ve worked hard to achieve (human right, individual’s right, freedom etc, which will set them back economically, no doubt), because clearly the conflict has spilled over to their turfs, we’ve witnessed that. Not to mention, it has the right ingredients to instigate another international war, because Arabs and Muslims cannot set inactive forever. Your thoughts :) Peace/Love muslimbangladeshi Biased analysis akhi, sorry to say this. You say Westerners see terrorism as attacks on their way of life, well why is it nobody is attacking Zionists. You say USA's unconditional support for Zionist is the only cause for friction; I don't agree. Zionists killed 1300 innocent Palestinians and Arabs and disunited Muslims did nothing significant. Tell me what have disunited muslims done for Iraq where 600+ were killed in Fallujah by USA in one day and over a million so far and counting. Tell me how you so conveniently forget or ignore this case. There is no alternative to looking after yourselves, you should know this from your experience in a country which was invaded by Anglos and stolen from the natives. We have to unite in every way possible - military, economic, scientific, religious and so on. muslimbangladeshi Just an afterthought akhi, there is no coherent combined 'East' as opposed to 'West' whether in terms of religion, culture, race, ethnicity, customs, food, geography, economy, society, history etc. Humbleman Muslimbangladeshi, with due respect But why are you going like a maniac attacking people who chosen not share or agree with your views? I must say I found your manner of responding to some posts a little bit childish and uncivilised. Why can’t you put your view without generalizing or personal attack? Try to write your argument in a civilized formula. I am sorry akhi, but am intolerant to rudeness or disrespect of another human being. Peace Chocoholic And ever being Mr Predictable - watch him quote me and DK in his reply! ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz muyesser
I am lucky enough to have lived within a Muslim culture especially a Gulf culture and within a Western culture, and frankly the two are very dear to me. Over the years, I’ve learnt to combine the good things of the two great cultures to form who I’m, and discarded the unpleasant ones.
in your subjective reality looks like..
xl Humbleman Muysesser, why would you say that :? muyesser some cultural patterns like communication, individualism, collectivism, equality, hierarchy, assertiveness vs interpersonal harmony make it obvious the difference between the East and the West, and understanding those cultural orientations help us to see why people from E&W act the way they do.. And if we do have that understanding, we know that there’s no need to appear too religious, and no need to scream out loud ‘Allah is great’.. And if we really understand the difference between the two culture and call ourselves 'humble', we shouldn’t be embarrassed to be from ‘Arab descent’.. (I walked half a life time in similar shoes to yours.)

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dubai1970
I must agree with you because why everything has to be religious? issues between west and east is not Israel and palestine issue as a whole. As if the issue is resolved, all things will be ok. Trust me even then there will be other fronts opened and the same debate will continue.
In the forums, I have observed that what ever the topic is for the new posts, the answers are divided somewhere in religious terms at the end.
Cheers muyesser
i wouldn't have such an argument like why everything has to be religious.. and in fact for some religious people 'everything may be religious'.. dubai1970
Thats right but in this political forum, why every topic turns into a religious one??? I see the word Islam, Muslims, Christians, Jews all over. I think MODs should prevent the forums from being hijacked on religious boundaries. muyesser religious is the politics of the century.. xl daisy
you shud know the difference btw religion and politics....
Its not fair to pass a jugement without goin into depth of it... :roll:
Politics is all about makin a bridge btw diff cultures and religions....to help humans to live peacefully with each other..... dubai1970
Well said. I just said the same to some people on irc..... Humbleman
I am quite familiar with cross-cultural communication, and how cultures and beliefs form and define the way that people behave in general. I did address that in my earlier post when I said cultures are the main guidance to how people lives - I guess you forgot to put your glasses on. You don’t need to be savvy at cross-cultural communication to understand how one culture works, you only need to be an open-minded and have a willingness to learn.
My post has nothing to do with cross-cultural communication, rather with how the media twist news stories without thinking of the consequence. This have resulted on people in the West whom rely on news as their primary source to understand what is going on in the world, to develop a firm belief that Muslims hate their way of lives and hate them as people. Subsequently, this untrue believe has resulted to Muslim-phobia and unwarranted fear of Islam. Muslims on the other hand, see American’s relentless support to the Israeli government and the silent of some Western governments on what Israel has been doing to Palestine is an attack on Islam and Muslims in general.

So clearly there is great misunderstanding, people in the West have no idea why Muslims people are so angry at the American and some Western countries. And Muslims people don’t know that the majority of Western people have nothing to do with their governments’ decision, yes they do elect them but that’s where it’s end as far as decisions are concern.
You are clearly insufficient on how Islam works, this shows when you think that only religious people are the ones who use the phrase “Allah is great”. If you know something about Islam then you would know that this phrase is used by every Muslim almost daily, in prayer, in fear, in surprise etc. Just like when people use the Name ‘Jesus’ when they surprise or want to express a point.

I know you are picking on some of my posts that I posted earlier. When I said I sometimes poke fun of the airport customs’ paranoia due to the fact I always got singled out and searched almost every time I travel, just because of my name or handsome Middle Eastern look hehehe. Last year I travelled overseas about 9 times for work related assignments, and 7 out of the 9 I stopped and searched only at Western airports, even thought am professional in everything I do. So what does that tells. Yes I got tired of this annoyance, and decided to enjoy the ride by having fun on those people who are paranoia and lack the intelligence to understand there are over one billion Muslims worldwide whom 99 % of them are peace-loving and law abiding citizens. I said “Allah is great” out loud to express my surprise and to honestly make fun out of their fear. Now, there is different between out loud and screaming out loud, and I would like to believe that you know the difference.
To address your last point, as Arab and Arab’s culture is something that I cherish and hold dear, I am afraid to say yes I’m embarrassed to be an Arab, why because the Arab leaders are embarrassingly incompetent to protect Palestinian kids and women from the thugs whom called themselves Israeli’s government.
I find your posts very ambiguous; it would be nice if you try to write more than one sentence so people can understand your point. :) kanelli I'm sorry, but I don't think that some Westerners are the only ones who don't know what is going in other parts of the world. Is the average person in the Middle East better educated about other countries, cultures and foreign policies? I think there is a heck of a lot of misunderstanding going on on both sides, don't you? Religion is brought up, because Islam/politics are intertwined in the Middle East, whereas most of the West is secular. Humbleman I didn’t claim that people in the Middle East are more educated than their fellows in the West. Personally think that Middle Eastern countries are lagging behind in term of education.
muyesser
thats how/what politics should be, not what it's nowadays.. and since those 19 young muslim attacked new york and washington islam has been playing the central role in the world..
xl Humbleman “19 young Muslim attacked New York” That’s right 19 people, not over one billion Muslims. Thought the systems in the West prosecute people individually not collectively, but since that attack it seems that all Muslims are guilty. Why do they have to take the blame of someone else? Besides, the biggest attack on US soil before 9/11 was on Oklahoma committed by a Christian Irish guy. But was there any propaganda against Christian people or Irish people? Of course not. 9/11 came as a blessing to those people who hate Islam and have been waiting for an opportunity like 9/11 to lunch their false demeaning ideology and agenda at Islam and Muslims people. Talking about individualist culture. :? kanelli Is Al Qaeda a multi-faith organization? Did their Catholic branch bomb the embassies in Africa? What about the attacks in the UK underground and the the foiled attacks. Were those accused not Muslim? What about the attacks in Mumbai? There are many people who have Muslim friends and relatives, and they don't assume that all Muslims are terrorists. However, the authorities whose job it is to protect the population, including Muslims, are going to profile people who are Muslim when doing security checks. It completely sucks that all Muslims are being made to feel uncomfortable, but it is those few extremists who have committed terrorist acts that should take quite a bit of the blame, don't you think? Humbleman Okay I hear you But let me ask this. First of all my heart goes out to those how lost loved one in the 09/11 attack. But why did those 19 terrorists attack the US in particular from your understanding? Dubai Knight
Thats an easy one to answer.
The US was a 'soft target'. Security in the US was considerably less prior to 9/11 particularly on internal flights, as they had never really faced an internal terrorist threat until then. Compared to countries like the UK, Spain, France and Germany, who had all faced various terrorist bombing campaigns over the years from the PIRA, ETA, Algerian sepratists, Baader Meinhof, Red September and any number of extremist left wing, right wing, religious and minority groups.
New York was the natural primary target for several reasons. Its high profile and possibly the most visible symbol of the western world, even though it is not the US capital. Its the heart of the US financial system and therefore possibly the global financial market.
The secondary targets were the Pentagon (for obvious reasons) and the fourth plane, that was brought down by the actions of the passengers and crew before it could reach the target, was allegedly aiming for the White House. There are theories that it was not a plane that hit the Pentagon and I do have to admit that the damage to the building was not consistent with a plane strike, but could have been a cruise missile. Thats yet another thread that I think has already been covered in one of the forums.
From Al Qaeda's perspective, the things that make the west strong are money and military strength. The intention to disrupt (rather than destroy) was clear, however a strike on the centre of Zurich or Geneva would not have had as much international impact and would have been considerably harder to undertake, even though it would probably have had a larger impact on the global financial situation. Osama Bin Laden is probably laughing into his beard right now at the state of western financial impropriety and he didn't have to lift a finger!
There have been many attempts to disrupt the other major power available to the west: Communication.
The internet and banking communications networks are apparently under constant barrage from cyber terrorists, based often from Chechnya, China or Bangalore, and there is now a considerable amount of western resource poured into protecting the lines of communication as this is how the majority of global wealth travels these days.
I know one particular instance that amazes me.
When the US invaded Iraq, the first thing they did was knock out the communications network with tactical strikes to the telecommunications hubs. After occupation, these were the first services they needed to bring back online so began to replace the older PABX system with a new digital landline network and modern G3 mobile net which would have been to the great benefit of every Iraqui citizen. What did the Iraqi extremists do? Blew up the new installations!
So, they now have one of the first fully operational 'Wimax' systems set up in Baghdad. This is like a mobile phone network all over the city using a number of masts to create an overlapping coverage net. You can take out 1 or 2 or even 50% of the towers, but the net just carries on working. And its 5 times faster than normal G3 mobile. All landlines are obsolete as everything, phone, fax, data and internet are fully wireless and mobile. The extremists have now given up trying to break it and have moved onto other targets.
The moral to this story; if you make a target so diffuse it is impossible to take out the heart in one hit, then it no longer becomes a viable terrorist target. Create a single visible symbol or hub and that is like painting a giant target on it!
8) 8) 8)
Knight Red Chief
This sentence is very funny. Those people were capable only to fabricate a letter of advice paying some bribe to an operation clerk... but it had been a few years before 9/11.
A year before 9/11 Chechnya had been totally reconquired by Russians troops and central power speaded everywhere.
Where do you take such kind of information? Humbleman We know what had created IRA. But where is IRA now, non-existence because of smart people who looked at the root causes their problem and then addressed it sufficiently. So what am trying to get at with 9/11 attack is, what are the fundamental causes that drove those group of people to attack American. We know from their action in the past that they mainly direct their attacks at countries that have involvement in the Middle East. So perhaps this says something about their message. It is well-known that Ben Laden himself and his family used to have good relationship and business ties with the Push’s family. It’s also known that Ben Laden turned against American because of its foreign policy especially toward the conflict between Israel and Palestine. And interestingly enough, people who have been studying the reason behind those groups of people whom had committed such an attack, found these terrorist groups had always based the reason of their attack on what’s happening on Palestine and recently in Iraq. So this beg the question, maybe these groups of people are somehow getting back at American because of its involvement in the Middle East and its unconditional support of what Israel has been doing? :roll: muslimbangladeshi
Brother,
I'll be glad if you can show me where I insulted you. It may be a misunderstanding.
I am sorry if you thought I insulted you. What makes you think that?
Peace muslimbangladeshi
Westerners themselves admit CIA financed, trained and equipped a 'phantom' organization called 'Al Qaeda' (perhaps a figment of Western imagination).
Who are the government leaders, bureaucrats, military personnel and other government officials in the west? Are they all western?
Somehow nobody answered why when these members are CHOSEN by the westerners, we are asked to absolve the westerners of guilt but when these Westernes have killed more than millions, the actions of a few who form a 'phantom' organization supported by the West are blamed on the nonwesterns and Muslims. Chocoholic
He's talking about the way you speak to the rest of us, with insults and childish behaviour! daisy
Facts are facts ...if they dont accept ...it doesn't mean tht its not true...
bravo humble.....i agree 100% daisy
y we all just jump on findin out the religion of the terrorist????
do u really beleive tht if sm one follow a religion will be a terrorist??
its human nature tht when it crosses a fine line btw humanity and insanity....he becomes a terrorist....
so i think as an adult and mature human beings we shud respect our religions and stop throwin tht b..l shi.t at each other....
if we here cant accept and convince each other on a mutual humanity favourin agenda then how come ppl sitting in the governments can?
coz we r one who elect them ...
its not about muslims ...or christians or jews ....its about tolerance of the other human being and respectin their culture and tryin not to go across tht fine line of humanity. Chocoholic Daisy, Kanelli is not saying that at all. The sad actions of a few deemed 'terrorists' and yes they are! Have tarred the whole religion of Islam, that's a fact whether you like it or not. Now the problem is, what are the moderate ones doing about it, other than saying oh well yes we condem these acts - not a great deal it has to be said. If people of certain faiths cannot stamp out the extremists within their own communities, then don't come crying and moaning when you get profiled at an airport, train station etc etc We have had to deal with terrorism from various factions over the years ETA, the IRA etc etc. But the sad fact of the matter is that these days that majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by groups like Al Queda, who do happen to be muslim. mesheditor can't you guys leave religion and religion pathetic views out of these political debates , this thread targeted the misunderstanding between the east and the west. all i know about religion is that God will look at me as an individual, will punish me if i am evil, will judge me for what I do , not for what the rest of the world is going through. if you want to make a religious change , make it within yourself first because that is what you are going to be judged about , you hear me ? live your life respecting others and don't harm others , that is only guarantees you a free ticket to heavens. trust me :) kanelli mesheditor, did you read the initial post or what? We are not off-topic, and sorry, but religion is part of it! mesheditor yes I did , but frankly speaking non of us is qualified enough to talk about religion. religion is not complicated as the way i see it however if i sit here all day reading about it and how you guys think it led to all this mess , I wouldn't be able to tell where am from or what religion i represent .. daisy
I agree tht ....most of the moderate ones r sleepin by just sayin tht its wrong,,, but have u ever came across a study tht how much of muslims r dying coz of these soo called al-quaida muslim organizations.........?
Its not an over night process tht one will stamp out tht factor of extrimism from their societies ....i am workin with an NGO along with like hundreds of other workers to wipe away all the fears ppl feel from west....and their r a lot of other organizations also workin on the same peace agenda......
But the prob is tht when we get a response from sm of our fellow westerns tht we r like sm third world crap citizens and we dont have any idea of whts goin on in the world ,,,and the only solution is another holo from this time on muslims......then its very difficult even for us not to react.
And to tell u the truth i never felt offended about tht profilin thin .....its their duty to keep and ensure the safety.....it willl benefit me too.
if i have nothin to hide then y wud i compalin?
But last month sm very starnge things even happened in the Afghanistan....
Sm US soldiers had a gun fight with sm al quaida members and after like 2 hrs of tht the US soldiers managed to kill them....there were four of them...after the post martem report it was disclosed tht those four men were not circumcized( which is basically in muslim religion) and they also had tatoos of diff animals on their backs and chests....
tht report was not published coz of sm reasons( relations with russia).
I am not accusin or blamin but its not abt Islam and muslims....
So i will really appreciate and respect ur views if u try to be more open minded and even if ppl like u can help us in guiding the less educated and less previliged ones. kanelli daisy, it is really hard to read your posts when you omit so many letters from the words. Can you please post using full words to make reading faster and more comprehensible. Thanks. :) daisy
sorry i will try it next time...thanks for it. :) kanelli Thanks, you write a lot of text sometimes and I would just like to be able to follow. :) dubai1970
Off topic: In actual fact, I find her way of writing so seductive :oops:
Cheers daisy :) Chocoholic Oh I'm very open minded - more than you know! Have not read that story, so can;t comment. And yes please write using full words as I am interested to see what you have to say, but the SMS shorthand makes it difficult to follow. daisy
I am working on it.... :wink: Humbleman
That’s very interesting.
Were there any association between IRA and their Christian religion?
Or have we heard that the Media quote saying, IRA Christian groups conceal a bomb and killed large number of innocent people? No, not at all, they only mentioned the name of IRA and that’s about it – so you see that double standard here.
It’s hilarious when you say that Muslims have to monitor and take charge of every Muslims’ behaviour and views – hello. We find it hard to control our kids’ behaviour let alone strangers, or an adult. It’s like am saying white folks should stamp out skinheads who preach hatred, racism and the death of non-white in America, Europe, Australia, NZ etc.
I’ve seen these skinhead groups taking to the street in some Western countries preaching their hate and twisted ideology publicly, and what governments did in those countries, they kindly offered them squad of police officers to protect them from any attack by the public.
Note, there have been fatal attacks by members of those skinhead groups on innocent people, but we never heard any association with their religion or race . Media and some white folks quoted saying, “the majority of white people don’t subscribe to these skinheads’ agenda”. I bet if these skinheads were Muslims, Media would be saying, terrorist Muslims groups seek the death of millions of innocent people”. This is what I found to be a clear double standard by Western Media?

Just like when the Media describe a Palestinian fighter as a Muslim terrorist, and Jew as an Israeli soldier who fight to defend his/her country.
So let me reverse your question, why can’t white folks stamp out those skinheads who want nothing but the death of every non-white?
:?: kanelli Humbleman, those are old arguments that have already been dealt with in many other threads in this forum. Dubai Knight
Because, my friend, we have something in the west called 'Freedom of Speech' (emphasis on the "Speech")
Jean Paul Sartre said it best:
"Monsieur, I may totally disagree with what you say, however I would stand side by side with you and fight to the death to protect your freedom to say it"
Anyone can say what they like, but if those words become actions that threaten the safety and security of the majority, then the Rule of Law applies and they are in breach of their rights. It is then the law and their appointed agents (the police) duty to prosecute.
There is a place in London called Speakers Corner (Just in Hyde Park near Marble Arch) where anyone can stand and speak publicly without any fear of prosecution about any subject they feel strongly about. Its great entertainment as all the nutters in creation like to get on their hind legs and say their piece. Some are great orators, however the people who listen have the choice to stay or move on as they feel.
8) 8) 8)
Knight Humbleman
DK, my friend
Few Imams from London were imprisoned because their sermons considered being provocative and seditious. These Imams haven’t done anything physical, all what they did is using speech, just like what skinheads do.
So it’s double standard when these Imams’ right to freedom of speech taken from them but given to skinhead groups. According to what you said, they should’ve been able to say whatever they want to say – right.
Skin heads are no different from any other terrorists in my opinion- they killed and spread hatred amongst societies. Just last week where I live, neo-nazi white supremacist beliefs sparked the hate-killings of two men, they were killed by 5 skinheads, one of these two men was an innocent Korean student. They mercilessly strangled him as they kept saying "Nein blut", German for "No blood" till he died.
Also according to what you said, people should be able to debate the holocaust, and what exactly happened during that time. But in reality, imprisonment and travel ban are awaiting anyone who wishes to do so. That’s contradicting what freedom of speech stand for, isn’t it? :? Red Chief DK, It sounds beautiful. How about witch-hunt in McCarthy Era? TheChoosen Humble, where do you live? Chocoholic Humble, the Imams in LOndon were jailed for spreading hate and calling for Jihad, which is in effect 'treason', still an act punishable by death in the UK! Nazi supporters would get exaclt yht esame treatment, so no they're not being treated differently. These people were also jailed because they were funding terrorist activities and communicating directly with Al-Queda. Bakri is still in Lebanon! muslimbangladeshi Brother Humbleman, Remember the very same hypocrites that chant 'freedom of speech' abused their moderator power to 'warn' me for 'freedom of speech'. Remember this, a forum dedicated to Dubai has only one Emirati moderator. You're being gobbled up and the time is nigh to kick them in the posterior and send 'em packing. Chocoholic Someone needs to kick you in the arse and send you packing - mate! Dubai Knight
MB: To date you have not been 'Moderated' in that not a single one of your posts has been edited. Certain posts with abusive content have been moved wholesale to Fight Club. If the Administrators feel that you deserve access, they would grant it. If they do not, then you have to live by that decision. You are not in control of it.
This is NOT an Emirati Forum. Although anyone is welcome, this is a forum about Dubai for English speaking people and, for all you know, could be hosted in Canada or even Bangladesh. This shows how little you understand about this medium and the UAE as a whole.
The time has come for the Moderators and the Administrators to consider kicking you in the posterior for the overt hatred you have displayed here, the abuse of anyone who is non Muslim and your abject disregard for the rules of the forum as are clearly displayed in the stickies at the top of each section.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Knight[/u] rudeboy
this forum is giving dubai a real bad name. Dubai Knight
Really?
In what way?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Knight rudeboy
in everyway.
the forum was supposed to be helping expats out providing them with informaiton etc etc. but the amount of biased information we have on this forum it is giving out bad "vibes" about Dubai to anyone who wishes to move out to dubai. the way everyone is bikering over little things from dogs to labourers rights. the amount of time everyone spends fighting amongst each other, can be spend on doing something productive. if you really care about dogs why doesnt the forum have its own charity where donaters can contribute. or if someone is really worried about palestinians why dont we all contribute clothes we are not using to the palestinian ppl? Instead of fighting. Humbleman
Rudeboy. My friend
I disagree with you, although I like your ideas of charity.
This section of the forum is called political debate, and as you know when debating with a large group of people, you’ll have different views, some of them are pleasant and others aren’t, this is part of political debate.
On the contrary, debating issues will more likely help to increase one’s understanding and knowledge of how others see things. I see it as an educational. We do have the right to agree and disagree, but we don’t have the right to attack each others’ personal character or use an example or event as a leverage to attack a whole nation or race.
People who aren’t interested in politics have the choice to enjoy some interesting sections in the forum. It’s nice to have a freedom of choice, don’t you think? :) Humbleman Jewish officials in Israel and abroad are outraged that Pope Benedict has decided few days ago to lift the excommunication of a British bishop who denies that Jews were killed in Nazi gas chambers. Why should the Pope be responsible for someone else’s view? Why when a British bishop tries to speak what he believes is historical truth in an amicable manner, called anti-Semitic, expelled from his job and outcast? No one is denying that Jewish people had suffered at the hand of Hitler? But why it’s okay for historian to revisit past tragedies and re-examine their truth, but banned to do the same thing on what exactly happened to the Jewish people during the time of Hitler. Historians have better access to advance technology to pin down facts in a fairly accurate way. Speaking of freedom of speech I am very sympathetic to the Jewish people whom had suffered and to the suffering of any human being whether in Africa, West, East. I’m just trying to understating the hypocritical definition of freedom of speech. Here is a link the interview with the British bishop Humbleman
Thank you. So the law in the West is the one which is responsible to deals with those adherent groups. I am with you on that.
So who come you expect ordinary Muslims to take the law into their hands and stamp out some groups of people whom don’t share their views. Don’t you think Muslims should also let the law do the same thing with extremist groups? Or in your view Muslims people are responsible to eliminate those groups but European people are not responsible to eliminate skinheads and their detrimental activities.
99 % of Muslims as am sure European people as well hate extremist, hate the killing of any innocent person. Not to mention, Gulf countries’ laws are against extremists or any attack on civilian. The proof of this is that, non-Muslims people are working throughout the Gulf, and walk freely because non-Muslims know that Gulf’s laws are there to deal with any twisted minded person, and know that the majority of Muslims people are peace-loving and don’t subscribe to such view.
However, this indicates that, it’s a fact that in all societies and religions, you will always have narrow minded people who will always try hard to stir up trouble. This fact has been clearly ignored by the Media on their coverage when certain group of people whom happened to be Muslims used violence to put their message across, which is of course wrong. But hardly seen or heard the media associated religion with people in the past who have had constantly used violence to achieved certain outcomes. Where is the fairness?
You see, if the Western governments want to really help, then they should stay out of Palestine and Israel’s conflict, or at least involve as honest brokers if they failed to achieve lasting peace between the two. This will demonstrates to Muslims people that Western governments are not anti-Islam, and will also make it easier for the laws in Muslims and Arabic countries to counteract extremists’ views that Western governments are attacking Islam.
:) kanelli rudeboy, you didn't mention that hateful posters like MB are ruining this forum, instead you worry about what the Westerners are critiquing about the UAE, and how they go for labourer and animal rights all the time. Very interesting... kanelli humbleman, isn't there already a thread about freedom of speech where we were all discussing that it isn't a perfect concept and that people are always trying to influence it. It is human nature to try to manipulate what others see and hear, and freedom of speech isn't consistently enforced. It find it quite useless when people are looking so hard to show how the West is hypocritical about freedom of speech when tons of Arab countries don't even allow free speech - period. The ones that say they do are also abusing it and being hypocritical about it. Are you trying to say that Arab countries should be expected to behave in a hypocritical way, but the West is supposed to be perfectly objective all the time. We aren't from Vulcan! Humbleman Dear Kanelli, not at all. I’m only responding to few posts that implied people in the West can say whatever they want. I take exception of this. However I do believe that people in the West are in a better position in term of expressing some of their opinions freely. Having said that, freedom of speech is used/allowed whether in the West or East when it’s convenient or when it bound to serves specific agenda for the people who are in charged. I’m not trying to compare the West to the East or the Arab to the West as they both have unique cultures that already defined who they are. I am just trying to high light how the Media in the West have been unfairly associating Islam with every nut that happened to be a Muslim, and for some reason they deliberately ignore mentioning others’ religion when they used violence against others. This has resulted in a great misunderstanding amongst the ordinary people in the West about Islam and Muslims people as whole. And this is quite dangerous indeed. :) rudeboy
kanelli i dont want to argue but if u read my post properly it was directed to everyone including yourself and myself. rudeboy
with all this bikering, i dont think anyone will learn anything here. muslimbangladeshi
Just change the name of the forums then.
As long as that doesn't happen, this is 'Dubai Forums'.
Whether you like it or not, it's you and your ilk who need a kick in the posterior. muslimbangladeshi
You didn't mention that MB is "ruining the forum for Westerners " who like to frolick about nude and drunk while practising their homosexual, lecherous, lewd, lascivious customs. muslimbangladeshi
Can you show me an Arab country that officially insults Christianity, Westerners, your homosexuality, your lewd, lecherous, treacherous, hyypocritical, nude, lascivious, drunken stupor filled, drug-abusing customs under the guise of 'freedom of speech'?
Arabs dont chant 'freedom of speech' while the West does.
The hypocrisy of the West exposed again. kanelli humbleman, everyone should be allowed free speech - not just people in the West. The major problems are that a) people say things without considering whether or not it may be very hurtful or damaging and sometimes they don't care if it is b) others always want to control what is seen/heard by others and c) freedom of speech is so subjective because there is no way to set boundaries that will satisfy everyone. Freedom of speech is something the West struggles with all the time; however, it is worth fighting to keep that right because people need to be able to speak out and discuss important issues. There is junk free speech and valuable free speech, and we have to take the good with the bad because it is preferable to no free speech at all. kanelli
I did read your post and my comment still stands.



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