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suicide bombers?


Fatty Melon No one ever said there were no religion motivated wars...but those wars you listed are hardly among the bloodiest of wars.
Glory you did not read you copy pasted there is a difference mAJOR pAIN reading books and digging on the net wont hurt you ... instead of watching movies, listening to pass on infos and watching documentaries, and claiming that you actually know something ...... and i happened to have done a thesis on religious wars ..... Glory i mean shit, you just copied some shit you haven't got a clue about who the hell heard of some bullshit in france in 153whatever!!!!! Glory WOw you're great at copy paste! im watching snatch right now, go away! you might be slightly justified, but they weren't the bloodiest wars. mAJOR pAIN
here are the list ....
1 france 1562 - 1598 The religious wars began with overt hostilities in 1562 and lasted until the Edict of Nantes in 1598. It was warfare that devastated a generation, although conducted in rather desultory, inconclusive way.
"One faith" was viewed as essential to civil order -- how else would society hold together? And without the right faith, pleasing to God who upholds the natural order, there was sure to be disaster.
(where this time span 1562 to 1598 the blood shed on that alone would be more than a match even if you combine the body count of the punywars that you had just mentioned)
Spain The year 1556 saw the accession of perhaps the most important monarch of the sixteenth century: Philip II of Spain (ruled 1556-1598 ). Of all the monarchs of Europe, Philip was the most zealous defender of his religious faith and his energies in pursuit of this defense greatly changed the face of Europe.
The Thirty Years War, 1618-1648 With the exception of the English civil war, the last major war of religion was the Thirty Years War. It is fair to say, however, that this war was as much about politics as it was about religion. Germany, which was called the Holy Roman Empire and extended from the North Sea to the Mediterranean, was not a unified state, but rather a loose collection of a huge number of autonomous city-states or province-states—three hundred and sixty autonomous states to be exact. Each was a more or less sovereign state that levied taxes and tariffs, had its own armies, made its own money, and even enforced its own borders. Religious differences fueled the fires of the political and economic rivalries between these separate states. About half the states were predominantly Protestant while the other half were predominately Catholic.
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REFORM/WARS.HTM
Not to mentioned the Crusades : as follows
V. The crusade against Constantinople (1204);
VI. The thirteenth-century crusades (1217-52);
VII. Final loss of the Christian colonies of the East (1254-91);
VIII. The fourteenth-century crusade and the Ottoman invasion;
IX. The crusade in the fifteenth century;
im sorry to make it so long but ... did you say ... that the wars that you had mentioned was the bloodiest???? ........
get a clue ???? sometimes sounding smart needs the knowledge to back it up...
i rest my case ...... Glory I accept the crusades as a religous war, because the euros were wrong, and salladin kicked serious ass! There were political motivations behind all those fucked up wars, religon was just used to get those homo's a shootin' ! it's never genuine! the Church was full of crap the same way Melosovich was yorky500 Oh, and if ya wanna go back even further, look at the Great Crusades from earlier times! yorky500 Religion = race. Croats v the serbs Hutu's v toetsies 1000's upon 1000's are kileed in the name of religion and race. NI = Catholics v Protestants. What greater example do you want for a religious war! FAKESPIKE there is a similar discussion going on in the philosophy / religion catagory called. science vs religion. your input would be appreciated.

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Fatty Melon Glory said it best before... 'Religon makes it that much easier to kill!!!if they didn't have it you think they'd stop killing? HELL NO' Glory The final solution was not religously motivated in the slightest, if you took history in high school you'd know that krush
wth? i thought the topic was suicide bombers and not war? or has this turned into a generalised topic of let's discuss whatever has to do with suicide bombers which includes wars?
world war 2 - the remnants of that is the holocaust...elimation of the jewish ppl....doesn't that have something to do with religion? Glory oh that too...but if you do lok at your history ....most of the bloodiest wars was triggered by religion.... BULLSHIT! world war one and two had nothing to do with religon, nam, cambodia.. those were the bloodiest wars Get a clue son FAKESPIKE ill keep it simple. ppl are dieing. from selfish bombers that dont think of the bigger picture. they see how they win todays fight. they concern them selfs with winning battles and ignore winning the war. small minded naive ppl. led to believe that what they do gives there life meaning. unfortunate... mAJOR pAIN
oh that too...but if you do lok at your history ....most of the bloodiest wars was triggered by religion....
most countries had been devided by religios political propaganda.
there are cults where the leader suddenly decided that its time to die and he dragged and convince all he's follwers to kill them selves,... i mean this things really happens ...
because the easiest way to make a manfollow is trough his faith....
seee you go to church, mosque or temple (whatever) because ... YOU Believe that GOD would be pleasedif you pray and go tosuch places...
well MOST of theese people where Led to Believe that they are pleassing GOD .....
AGAIN ITS NOT THE RELIGION that isin trial here BUT THE PEOPLE Behind all THESE BRAINWASHING .... FOR WHAT??? FORPOLITICAL GAINS... POWER, LAND, MONEY, OIL, OR JUST PLAIN RACIAL HATRED.....
LEADERS LIKE THEESE SHOULD BE PUNISHED !!!! Glory BrainWashing is bullshit! you watch way too many movies! maybe some people just enjoy killing? you ever thought of that? krush mAJOR pAIN, you are so right. the use of religion to further violence and death has become a vile thing - a means to justify man's lust for senseless & innocent death. if you want to find a reason for this, just look at man. this topic cannot be kept simple unless it is kept so by simple-minded ppl. using religion to justify an argument? this is not an argument and in all reality, religion plays a huge role in this - although what was said is true; it's not so in all cases (but in MOST). mAJOR pAIN good point Fatty Melon..... in that case religion was not the reason .... but you cannot really hide the fact that there are terrorist cells and group that, think or rather brainwash their followers that to achieve the highest reward in heaven is to kill the ENEMY of This "CERTAIN RELIGION" ...... and using your view... people are being killed by their neighbor and guess what ??? Theyhaveadiff. religious belief ...... its easier to convince a person to kill lots of inosent people just buy saying that their neighbor who they are in war with . ARE THE PEOPLE THAT IS THE ENEMY OF THAT CERTAIN RELIGION,.... BUT AGAIN ITS NOT RELIGION WHO DICTATES IT !!!!!!.. BUT THE LEADERS WHO USE RELIGION AS A WEAPON!!!!! AND PROven !!! MOST OFTHE LARGESTAND BLODIEST WARS WAS RELIGIOSLY TRIGGERED BLOOD BATH AGAIN ITS NOT RELIGION ...... ITS POLITICS..... ITS BAD POLITICS... BUT THE MOST EFFECTIVE POLITICS....
Glory you need bombers to liven shit up! seriously, how crap would al jazeera be if it had no violence? suicide bombing is fine!!! if you want to make it in life you have to be commited! The NVA faced the worlds strongest war machine, did they shy away? NO! they got down in dirty in those bushes and they kicked some yankee ass! were they outnumbered and outgunned? sure, but they didn't give up like a bunch of nancy boys! they set booby traps, they pumped saigon with weed and opium, they wired dead bodies to grenades, they skinned and torchered american soldiers within ear shot of their platoon! thats HARDCORE!!!! if using religon makes it that much easier to kill and maim the enemy so be it!!!! VC used suicide bombers in their daring midnite raids to destroy enemy communications!!! A group of peasent farmers were dedicated enough to repel an enemy that had dumped some 250 million tons of ordinance on them, VC were justified in doing what ever the hell they wanted Purple Haze my ass!!! Besides all that, if i had a tank i'd jump in to it and go on a rampage at some orphange! but i don't, so i strap myself with TNT and hop on a bus!!! Religon makes it that much easier to kill!!!if they didn't have it you think they'd stop killing? HELL NO!! they'd still be kicking ass and chewing bubble gum!! Fatty Melon I think it is you guys who are using religion to justify your side of the argument. Being a Palestinian, I am going to give you an example of what goes on there. You have a farmer, earns a hundred bucks a year, minding his own business. Israeli forces come in, blows up his home, kills off his family, and then claim it was a mistake. They thought a militant was hiding there. Does the farmer get compensation? No. Not a single penny. Nothing. His family is wiped out, his home destroyed, and he has got nowhere to go, and you guys are saying he decides to blow himself up in the name of God? That is just being plain naive. This guy has nothing to live for, I mean, he has worked his ass off for decades to build a home for his family, and suddenly, it is all gone. Being in a society which is primarly based on morals and not laws, he would see suicide bombing as a perfect means to an end. Not to mention, terrorist organisations (which, believe it or not, are entirely politically driven) often offer to give the remaining family members money in return for the man to go on a suicide run. And despite what you hear, Muslims do not get rewarded for killing civilians. It is never, ever, justified. I mean think about it, if Muslims had the chance to blow up civilians, go to heaven and be rewarded greatly without toiling away in life, why are there still Muslims wandering around? Surely, everyone would like the easy way out of this difficult life. The thing is, this problem is all psychological. You just cannot have simple villagers trying to deal with the amount of problems they face, in a reasonable manner. I mean, all over the world you have bums killing themselves over much simpler problems. This is just the typical bullshit propaganda that the American media uses to justify their government's actions. Now that the communists are gone, they are using Muslim extremists as the new scape goat for all the problems in the world. The American government simply cannot own up to their mistakes in the Middle East, so they sit there making ludicrous claims and accusations about Islam. This is not to say that there are no religion motivated suicide bombers, it is just that, the number of those situations involving them that do arise are so insignificant, you would make a better argument whining and bitching about Christian fanatics murdering abortionists. krush too many ppl use religion as a convenient means to an end. ppl who follow a religion follow law, rules & the man's interpretation of what is right and wrong. suicide bombers are deceived beyond belief into thinking their reward for the senseless death of others will be great - their intention, clouded as it is, could be from a place of wanting to do the right thing. doesn't make it right, though. yorky500 Complete and utter fooooooooooooookin freaks who have religion pumped into their head and see themselves as martyr's, when all they do is bring death and destruction to many others and for what? Why is religion such a powerful toool to justify death to others. It's always the same no matter what war you fight, behind it all, religion is part of it. FAKESPIKE well what do you think about the matter right wrong are you for it or not can you explain it at all? why do they do it are there reasons behind it can there reasons be justifed? discuss now! Pumpkin Escobar A religious war is utter and complete contradiction. I know most religions talk about love and peace and all that, and then go out and kill for "God" Chances are it was a man not "God" that said go out and kill these people. What God needs is a regular talk show so people can phone in and clear all this mess up Chocoholic Personally I think suicide bombers are the lowest of the low. To take away innocent lives is a waste and what kind of sick reward would you get for that? It's the fanatical people who brainwash week minded people into doing such things and make them believe it's for the greater good. You cannot justify killing anyone for any reason, and to do it in such a way is cowardly. sniper420
well many ppl arent brain washed. 20% of Palestinian suicide bombers were highly educated so they are not gullible, they are frustrated of being tortured in the cage. Alright what would u do if a foreign troop slapped ur dad and laugh like an @ss? U know the police won't do $hit if u attack him they will torture u to death instead of living life without dignity suicide bombers think they can take many dogs as they want and give msg to the dogs that they can bark louder than em. Chocoholic Well dude, I'm certainly not going to reduce myself to their level and I'm not going to waste my life by killing myself and taking innocent people with me, I consider myself to have a higher opinion than that and a great respect for life. Both my own and that of other people, no matter what they've done. Chocoholic Plus I also think the eye for an eye attitude is outdated, as the most intelligent creatures on this planet, do you not think there are other ways to do things? Two wrongs do not make a right! All those who take anothers life for whatever reason should rot in hell. Blowing yourself up along with others achieves nothing, it's a waste of precious life. You only get one and to have it taken away in such a barbaric manner is terrible, plus what about those that aren't killed? That are left maimed? Should they in turn do the same thing to get their own back? Would that not be justified? Liban Chocoholic, you do not live in the prison known as the occupied territories (rightfully Palestine). The world's largest open air prison where you have a lifetime sentence and no possibility of parole. Where you mother is called a whore by soldiers right in front of you and your father beaten up and made to cry. Where soldiers wrap the Quran in pig skin. Where your brother is locked up for saying f$%k you to Sharon. Where you do not have the right to visit your 3rd holiest mosque. Where you are denied access to drive the road to work somedays. Where you are denied the chance for medical treatment outside your prison should the need arise. Shall I go on? You will never know true desperation. So do not even think you can act as judge and jury for the innocent souls that take their lives in desperation because there is no other way to be heard. Do I support suicide bombings? Not quite. But do I understand my Palestinian brothers reasons? Fully. Pumpkin Escobar All I have to say is "God Bless America!" :wink: :lol: Liban :pukeright: :pukeleft: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeleft: Thats what I think of America :lol: Chocoholic I don't profess to understand all that these people go through in some territories, please don't think me that naive! We'll just have to agree to disagree, I just don't agree with it. I have no more to say on the subject. You're entitled to your opinion. Pumpkin Escobar Suicide bombers takes alot of blind courage though. I mean, what if you miss? You will be forever know in the afterlife as "DUMBASS!" horrible way to spend eternity. PS. You love the US Liban. We give you something to blame all your problems on!!! ady Now i wud like to say tht there are 2 types of suicide bombers. Some are doing for right reasons and some for wrong reasons and just for money matters and dirty political reasons. Though majority of them are doing the right thing. They are not targeting civilians. They are fighting and bombing the evil forces. The evil forces of US and the rest of the world who are its allies including the arab leaders.
The people have tolerated enough and they now see suicide attack as the last means. They are at war against the evil in this world. They are fighting to eliminate the evil on this earth who spread injustice and bloodshed on this earth and suk the blood of the poor and nothing else.
In the future there will b more such attacks and the bombers will seek to do maximum damage to the evil around the world. The fight will go on till the evil forces and people are wiped out. The suicide bombers are the best answer to the evils nuclear bombs and other missiles tht they drop on them and kill innocents. [/b] Pumpkin Escobar Not really :roll: Liban Yes really. Pumpkin Escobar KIRKUK, Iraq - A suicide bomber struck outside a bank as elderly men and women waited to cash their pension checks Tuesday, killing 23 people and wounding nearly 100 in this oil-rich northern city that has become a flashpoint for sectarian tension. Elsewhere, five Iraqi soldiers were killed and two wounded in a suicide car bombing at a checkpoint in Kan'an, 30 miles north of Baghdad, and the bodies of 24 men — victims of recent insurgent ambushes in the west of the country — were transported to a hospital in the capital. A man wearing a belt packed with explosives blew himself up outside the Rafidiyan Bank just after it opened Tuesday morning, said Gen. Sherko Shakir, Kirkuk's police chief. A crowd of street vendors and elderly men and women waiting outside the bank bore the brunt of the blast, and a pregnant woman and several children were among the victims. Body parts were strewn for 20 yards in every direction from the blast. The bodies of several victims were found in the rubble of a nearby pedestrian overpass. Two cars were set on fire "One of our brothers from the martyrdom seekers brigade blew up his explosive belt in the middle of this gathering," the group said, claiming the attack was aimed at off-duty police officers waiting to get paid. The group accused the Shiite-dominated military and security forces of "arresting, torturing and killing" Sunni Arabs. "You should know that these Muslims have brothers who vowed themselves to take the revenge," said the statement, which could not be independently verified. What would be the point in killing other muslims? To prove your point that you hate the US? That sure will take them very far to win the people over in Iraq............ Chocoholic Dude, you've hit the nail on the head with your last question "What's the point of killing other Muslims?" There is no point, these people rant and rave about uniting their 'Muslim brothers' but at the end of the day they are fully prepared to kill them at the same time. These people do not disciminate between race or religion, they will kill anyone who does not believe what they do - it's hypocritical! Liban I bow my head in sorrow and shame for the bad things in Iraq today. I hope that one day the americans will get out and the Iraqis will get into the business of uniting against violence (which is unislamic) and be the vital and integral part of the Arab Nation that they were once in the past. I dream of a day when all the arab states are not ruled by despots but by enlightened figures, chosen by the people (not by the US) who will resurrect the concept of Pan Arabia since we are all one people - Arab people. With God's help it shall happen, but I fear I will not be around to see that glorious day but thankfully our future generations will inshalla. sniper420
Yes I agree with you. Only few leaders are patient enough to see the "cause and effect" relation. They have to ask some questions 1, Are those terrorists always brainwashed? 2, What is the cause so strong for motivating them to take their own life? 3, What kind of injustices have been done to them and what large scale measures can they take so they could peacefully rectify the problem. Yet many leaders in the contries facing the dangers od terrorism dont follow the strategy of "cause and effect" Y? Cos mainly of political reasons. If they peacefully took measures to rectify the problem like providing jobs to people, education, health benefits then I guess few ppl would suffer and the problem solved BUT politicians and the citizens would think that the leader is trying to "appease" the terrorists and he would loose support.
Now I will give an example for "cause and effect" theory. Take for example Yitzhak Rabin who signed OSlo Treaty which one editor said was like giving "cent to a beggar" some conservative Isrealis were very enraged by this Treaty cos they thought their government "yielded" to the terrorist's demands. He was assassinated by a conservative Jew. Now take another example "War on Terror" by Bush. His way of fighting terror is offensive based (war, bombing etc). His party has a propaganda (like many nations) that "terrorists ppl hate America's freedom" , "Axis of Evil"etc. His party implemented a color code which signifies the "threat" level which was successful in terrifying ppl that they are always under attack! Now he won the election cos the way he handled it "fast offensive war" (bombing Afghanistan) and ppl were happy what those fools didnt know was they were sowing seeds for future enemies and more danger.
Lastly I would like to say, the personal losses of the hostage takers does not justify the murder of somebody else's children in revenge, but it does make the point that these "terrorist" attacks do not just come out of the blue for no reason.
The people weeping in States for their own loved ones were silent when American military units were engaging in similar outrages around the world.
"Wars in far away places have a nasty habit of rebounding on people"
Peace :D Liban Everytime a Muslim dies because of a US or Israeli bomb, those two countries created 1000 additional ennemies... Every empire has reached a peak and then fallen because of arrogance and self beleif of invulnerabilty. The US is at this peak. It is now showing its arrogance and beleif of its own invulnerability. This dominance of the war mongering nation of the Americans will end soon and the world can finally work on building tolerence, understanding, and ultimatly peace. Pumpkin Escobar War is hell!!!!! Liban War sucks... I have seen war firsthand. Bush sits in his little castle in DC and rides his horse hard on his little ranch in texas and thinks he is saving the world. People are dying because of US foreign policy people. We have to do something!!! Pumpkin Escobar Practice understanding instead of hate Liban Easy to say when your family wasn't killed by the ennemy or your home destroyed or your land stolen... these things happened to me personally so I ask you, how can I not hate the people that did this to me? Pumpkin Escobar And who would those people be exactly? Liban Israelis, whoes government is backed and armed by the Americans. ady US and israels horrible days are not far away. Inshallah worst will happen to them n we will c. If not we but our generations will definitely c. Liban Inshalla the arabs will prevale one day over Israel and the US will see the madness of its dealings with the arabs and rectify things and support the rightful people of the middle east and north africa --> The Arab Nation. One day inshalla we get rid of our despot rulers, and will put aside our petty difference and unite. We need to unite to properly get back our rightful place in the world and to get the full non hypocritical respect we deserve. Once this is done we can dream of re-establishing the Islamic Caliphate which will be a beacon of tolerence and light inshalla. Within the next 100 years the arab world will unite. 100 years after that the Caliphate will be relity inshalla. We will not be here, but our kids kids kids will inshalla... Ali-1974 Understand what? American Bullism? the fact that America needs so much oil to keep its economic wheel spinning and unfortunately the Middle East happens to have the oil that America desperately needs --- The more you try to understand American foreign policy to more frustrated you become, I am not a pro fundamalitism or terrorism but I fully understand why suicide bombers do what they do, If my family was murdered in a country where there was no justice I would do anything to hurt those responsible even if it means blowing myself up. Liban Desperation makes you do things you would think impossible. Nearly all the people here and elsewhere debating the merits or lack thereof suicide bombings do not know what they are talking about and will hopeully never know, because you need to be living in utter desperation - an lifelong prison of hell to know what drives these poor poor people to do what they do...



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