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Racist clubs ?


MaaaD
Source:
Where races don't club together
By Diaa Hadid, Staff Reporter

It's a case of all dressed up, but nowhere to go. Many expatriates claim they arrive at the door of a club only to be told they can't enter. The management says the place is for couples only or entry is through reservation. But these clubbers cry out that they are turned away because of their race.
When the three Indian couples were told they needed reservations to a bar in an iconic Dubai hotel last month, one of them called management to book.
As the well-dressed couples waited, another European group arrived.
"Six pairs of ears" heard they had not made reservations either, said Avinash Sampath, one of the waiting men. The door manager checked a clipboard and let the Europeans in. "They are regulars," he explained.
And another European couple, without reservations, "overheard by the same set of six ears" also entered. "One of us did tell [the manager] he was being racist. Hearing which, he boldly shined his flash-light on our faces," Sampath said.
Meanwhile, the Indian man trying to make reservations over the phone was told he did not need to make any that night. After all six well-paid professionals wrote complaint letters, the hotel's general manager said the European couples were guests at a sister property.
The Indian couples were not convinced, but Sampath said there was no more he could do. "They have their story, we have ours," he said.
Stories
Many Dubai residents have stories like Sampath's at the city's approximate 600 pubs and clubs. And like Sampath's story, it is difficult to tell whether racism is at its heart, when most pubs and clubs have a reservations and couples-only policy that is applied at whim, with no clear guidelines involved for customers.
Adam, a part-Asian IT specialist, was denied entry at a popular expatriate club when he tried to enter to meet a waiting friend."The bouncer said it was for couples and reservations. But I saw two white guys walk in," he said.
Edward, a black British media professional, was charged Dh50 the first time he walked into to a popular Bur Dubai pub.
The next time, when he entered "with some white friends, we walked right in without paying". "Once a group of Lebanese and Europeans were at a hotel resort with many clubs. Our Indian colleague, who turned up later, wasn't allowed in," said Jamil, a Lebanese presenter.
Almost all people interviewed by Gulf News said they had either seen friends and colleagues treated in a racist manner, or experienced it themselves. They also consistently mentioned five hotspots known for preferring a European clientele.
Campaign
In 1999, Dubai Tourism Commerce Marketing (DTCM) carried out a campaign against pubs and clubs that denied people entry on a racial basis.
That included sending out a circular that told club and pub operators they could not "impose any entry restrictions relating to the race, colour or profession of their guests and customers".
Lina Makarem Dergham, Senior Business Development Manager at DTCM, said she was surprised at racism claims, and said the department had not received one complaint this year on the issue.
Last year, the department received 8 complaints, but not all were because of racism. When Gulf News suggested few people complained because they were not aware they could complain to DTCM, Lina said the department tried to raise awareness.
"We hand out information pamphlets to tourists on package tours. We used to have complaint boxes, but nobody used them," she said. DTCM had ruled out advertising their number on pub and club entrances.
"We were concerned that we would get a flood of calls from drunk people with no legitimate problems," she said, "and we don't have the staff numbers to deal with that."
She encouraged people who felt they had been discriminated against to contact DTCM.
The fine
Clubs found guilty of doing so may be charged up to Dh20,000 and face temporary or permanent closure.
In 2003, DTCM issued another circular, asking pubs and clubs to "clearly post entry rules in Arabic and English at the door entrance of outlets?" and "issue complimentary membership cars to regular guests to avoid misunderstanding".
Our survey
A random Gulf News survey found very few clubs and pubs followed the DTCM guidelines. "Of course they won't," said Edward, "that means they won't be able to pick and choose who they want."
Even though racism is difficult to prove, Dubai residents say they often go out with a sense of anxiety ? will they be allowed in, or not?
"There are businessmen here who are willing to spend thousands on a good night out, stay at five star hotels, but aren't allowed into clubs. It doesn't make business sense," said Ahmad, a Pakistani national. "Who knows how much money these places are losing?"
?Not racism'
Club owners and workers vigorously denied they discriminated because of race.
The owner of a popular Arab nightclub said his rules were clear. "We prefer people over 30, they should be couples or mixed groups and have reservations," he said.
The owner said when bouncers denied entry to groups of men, they were accused of racism.
?Cheap excuse'
"I think that's a cheap excuse. We don't let in men without women, that's all. Single men come in to find ladies, but what kind of ladies do they want? And if they don't find any, and get drunk, how will they behave?"
He said the situation was more delicate when they did not allow women to enter alone. "There are certain working women who want to enter my club for business. I don't let them in. I want ladies to feel comfortable in my club."
Too busy
A marketing manager for a hotel with several clubs said they were not racist, but often too busy to let people in.
"I do understand how somebody can feel if they are not let in," she said, "but our policy is very clear. We allow couples and with reservations only, and members of the hotel". She said the hotel "should put guidelines in front of more places" to let people know if they were eligible to enter, but so far, had not done so for most clubs.
Helping women
A manager of another popular expatriate club said their policy was not discriminatory, but aimed at keeping women comfortable.
"I want an environment where women can wear what they want, dance and have a good time, and feel comfortable and relaxed."
"We don't encourage men in groups," she said, "we try to keep it to couples only, otherwise violence can break out between groups of men. "We do have posted up at the door that entry is at the discretion of management. We don't have a written down ?couples only' because that depends on the night," she said.
Chocoholic Nothing new here, this has been going on for years. If you're anything but Lebanese or Arab looking try getting into C Bar at the Al MArooj, it's virtually impossible. MaaaD Its funny coz i dont look "arab", and sometimes the bouncer would be about to not let me in, and then i start speaking in Arabic and i find the door wide open... Last thursday i was in line to get in to a club, there was a european couple ifront of me and the bouncer was telling them its reservations only. He looks at me and goes "Do you have a reservation sir? " i didnt have one, then follows it in arabic asking me to say yes. so said yes, he looked at the european couple and told them see i am sorry guys !! i felt bad and asked him why he wasnt letting them in although its a couple. he told me he doesnt want to spoil the "ambience" .. :S fayz There is tons of racism at clubs here and it is BS, this is one of my biggest pet peeves in Dubai. Chocoholic Yep it's crap. But don't blame the doormen. It's management policy. raidah u said Maaad at one point, that some used the excuse of preventing men from becoming violent, they don t let single women in. do u men think of urselves or being apes or smthing without any shread or selfcontroll? the other says that only couples r allowed. i cannot believ this hypocracy!!!! i read on many many sites that there r a lot more men in the uae, than women... :shock: is it me or this just doesnt make sense. i mean, ok, only couples, but than lets bring homos.e.xuality to fashion. i mean u poor baby boys, many of u only have the chance to date ur own kind. this racism thing :evil: i already feel the blood boyling in me!! if only 20% of the population is local and if possible the work for the government, who the hell runs clubs, pubs, etc? expats, isn t it? now, why would u not let in ppl from india? white money is better than black money or what? how is possible to see this kind of shity mentality in a place that is all about turism? and finally, it makes me :pukeright: to see and read everywhere how we need to keep men from being violent, cover up women to give them respect, bark about how arab women r raped by americans, etc. u don t give a shit about us! wherever smthing happens or smthing is banned to do, or a situation needs to be fixed, etc, its always women who get hurt. now whoever read one post of mine, know im pro-arab, and always against the racism that whites did and do all the time and all over. but i have to say this, u r not better than us. i know many of u who will read this r just as much adainst this kind of mentality than i am, but unfortunately, trashy ppl u find a lot easier and a lot more MaaaD agree with most of your points raidah, and racism is sick regardless of what race is involved. But just wanted to clear up something, i didnt say any of this, it was in the daily newspaper here. raidah
i know, that is why i said this:"u said Maaad at one point, that some used the excuse..."
sorry if i wasn t clear, its obvious u don t aggree, othervice u would have not post this Chocoholic Chick, you'd be surrpised to hear that many bar and clubs managers are actually Indian or Asian and so are actually descriminating against their own. Many venues won't actually say 'couples policy' but will let a group of girls then a group of guys, the aim is to get an even mix of guys and girls inside. If they let everyone in it would be over run with guys, guaranteed. Plus they don't want more guys hassling the women. Also many people will tell you the reasoning behind favouring certain nationalities is they think that western expats spend more money on a night out. Remember the sole aim of these venues is to make money. Brits, Aussies, SA's, Yanks etc are BIG drinkers, they put money behind the bar, which is exactly what bars want, whereas you might have a group of guys of another nationality, who share a bottle of water between 5 of them all night and just stand and gorp at the girls on the dance floor. So if you were running the business what makes more provitable sense to you? But things are changing, I mean people of all nationalities are making money now and these places have to realise that. I know alot about this, as I know many of the managers, door staff and DJ's working in this city and have written about the subject extensively in my articles. MaaaD
nothing to be sorry about, after your thong link today you are my favourite DFer for the day ;)

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A64Venice Most of the time it has to do with what one wears. Not to generalize, but I have seen some Indians get turned away exactly because of this reason. raidah
chick? me? :oops: oh thank you thank you :wink:
im againts stupidity of any kind and no matter who or where it comes from
it happened to me too in budapest tobe stoped at the entrance of a club because of the man i was with and having to watch how they searched him... raidah
:oops:
is there anything else i could help u with?
:lol: MaaaD
hmm now that you mention it lets take it offline and see what you have on offer :P raidah nothing to be sorry about, after your thong link today you are my favourite DFer for the day ;)
:oops:
is there anything else i could help u with?
:lol:
hmm now that you mention it lets take it offline and see what you have on offer :P
im not sure im following u :tweety: MaaaD
you dont have to follow me, i will lead :P raidah bad idea hun, nobody leads me 8) MaaaD thats what you all say in the begining .............. raidah beginning of what? :roll:
MaaaD a romp in the backseat of my car raidah is that a marriage proposal? :oops: need to take my pills, can t handle this much stress Concord
I don't think this one was one of the "pet peeves" previously mentioned in the pet peeve thread (it would be either 19 or 20) MaaaD
absolutely not !!! who do you think i am ? HP ? :P arniegang Maaad Behave ,you naughty boy. :wink: :wink: :wink: raidah
he was noughty? :shock:
i need to be more around hiya. maybe she could give some good advice on how to read men... :roll: the_zooter Maaad is like a dog on heat today!! :lol: arniegang I was thinking that, it is so unlike Maaad Dubai Knight Its nice to see Maaad is joining the naughty boys! Arnie...looks like we have some competition at last! Just don't you let him get near Vee or Alex! Sic 'im! :lol: :lol: :lol: Knight Liban Is this supposed to be news??? :shock: geraintindxb maybe that's one of reasons i don't like going clubs in Dubai. I never go any clubs and bars alone in Dubai. coz it might be not fun to be there if you are alone :) . terranova hmmm.. i have a few things to note on this. i've helped my friends promote parties back when i was in the clubbing scene and have some insight into what typically happens. Typically the scenario in which this happens is when there's too many guys already in the club and we're trying to correct the ratio. That is when we used to get really selective about the guys getting in. Now I'm hardly racist towards indians (or other south asians) but the younger guys usually travel in large groups as opposed to other races.. fairly aggressive groups i might add. this always meant trouble. now this was in canada, where the male/female ratio is not even close to being as skewed as it is here. so you can imagine how hard it is for an organizer to keep up a good ratio. if i see a group of 5 indian guys and 2 australian guys, i'm much more liable to let the australians in simply because i can't break up the group of 5. the other scenario is when you are aiming for a certain "clientele". This is where we tread a fine line between racism and social casteism. it's about how the person is dressed and how they carry themselves. i've beent to clubs in toronto dressed pretty badly sometimes, knowing that i'd never have gotten in if i didn't know the promoter. the final scenario is the purely discrimnatory one. never faced that in dubai so far, but i did once in toronto. we still got in though... persistence pays 8). so does a twenty in the palm of the bouncer :lol: Liban This is a common problem in most clubs on this planet.... GAB
Discrimination happens everywhere. I have been refused entry at home- once I'd say purely based on age, being tooooooo old, and secondly because we were with a guy that had a bikey look about him-didn't matter that he was one in a group and he was dressed better than any of the dregs they were letting in (infact he looked like he was going to a wedding!!) PLUS they called ahead to their other clubs to make sure we didn't get in there either. In a country where there are anti-discrimination laws it should come as surprise but when you have muscle bound brainless morons parading as bouncers excercising their right to be @rses you really can't expect much. cadmus something on the same lines happened with me....i dont know if it was racism or what...but the guy at crown plaza refused me the vallet parking....he said parking is full....but right after us few europeans came and he took their car for parking..... Sara1983
thats racists!!!! Sara1983
u're tru it is eveyrwhere!
human freakin attitudes probs raidah
thanx DK :? arniegang
I am watching him like a Hawk DK. We cant have to many muscling in on our territory init.
:evil: alexandra
:shock: :shock: :shock:
8) DK
and arnie u should take more care of ur kid, he's been naughty for a long time now, toooooooooo long i guess :roll: MaaaD
my threads are MY territory so back off :P MaaaD
alex are you calling me the kid ? I can take DK and arnie to school .. and teach them a few tricks ;) raidah :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: arniegang
Tread carefully and dont cross the DF Mafia
Take this as a pleasant warning. Many who have tried and failed to muscle in are now in the footings of a well know landmark in DXB, and that was after they had the concrete shoes put on them.
Anymore of this from you Maaad and Liban's donkey "gets it".
8) 8) 8) 8) MaaaD
your just encouraging me for more arent you :P arniegang Do not i repeat DO NOT mess with the DFM :P :P :P :P :P fayz
so is construction workers staring at women but that makes the news here as well. kilani Guys you wanna get in any of the famous clubs in dubai, you have to spare alittle of ur money for the doorman , how ? while walking in,try be confident, say hi and shake his hand while there a 50 dhs note in it . he will never turn u back . do that couple of times then u'll be a face member ! its as simple as that ! money always talks bebe ! nostradamus Discrimination happens everywhere and why not , because the riffraff would be mixing with the topology and lower the tone. kilani
what :shock: , speak english mate !!
u from mars ! we need solutions here .. raidah
unfortunately i don t think there r... kilani
I already mentioned the one and only, which works all the time, scroll up ! Concord Chocoholic I would never pay a doorman to let me into a club and that's that! But every club will try to keep out the people they consider to be undesirables who might cause trouble, regardless of nationality. It's sad that there is so much descrimination here, but you get it everywhere and it maybe not be the colour of your skin, but merely what you're wearing they don't like. I have no time for pickie clubs. Let me in - Don't you know who I am!!!! Dubai Knight
Try that one on me Chocs, and I will announce in a very loud voice to the rest of the world: "EXCUSE ME LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THERE IS A PERSON HERE WHO APPEARS NOT TO KNOW WHO SHE IS!"
...and then Nosher will chuck you out!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight Dubai Knight
Hmmm...Liban's donkey, Maaad's bed...anyone got an axe?
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Don Vito Knightioni MaaaD I am in the process of of forming a rival family, to keep the balance of power and put an end to DFM's secret rule over things here ... However our family is not Italian, we are from Saudia Arabia, and will blow your building if you mess with us. You guys are so last century with your italian mafiozo ways .. let the campaign of terror begin .. Dubai Knight
Hmmm....so there is to be a Mafia war between the Italian and Saudi families...we shall have to gather the consigliori and head for the mattresses...I will rely on the 'Capo di Tutto Capi' to inform us of the strategy for handling this..
Now where did I leave my bullet proof vest?
8) 8) 8)
Knight MaaaD
we dont use bullets DK, we use TNT fayz Hey made it in print, my first ever letter.... Although they edited the post Liban
WOO HOO... Fayz in print... :D Dubai Knight
Nice one buddy!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight Concord Where did you get the notion of Italian Mafia? The so called "Mafia" (a hollywood fantasy of course) are from Sicily - not Italy, regardless of what you've heard before. Dubai Knight TNT? My word you must have been keeping that for a while! No-one has used Tri-Nitrous Tetroxide for many a year...far too unstable! We have progressed to some far more sophisticated naughty substances now...be careful Maaad, that apple you bite into in the morning may well just be 'plastique'... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Knight MaaaD Hotel investigates discrimination charge By Sunita Menon, Staff Reporter Dubai A five star hotel has suspended one of its security guards after two South Asian men were refused entry to a pub-cum-restaurant. The Al Murooj Rotana has launched an investigation following complaints by two Sri Lankans that they were not allowed into Double Decker because of their skin colour. The news comes soon after a special investigation by Gulf News highlighted the issue of racial discrimination in entry policies. Revan Wickramasuriya and Dilshan Hettiartchi said white people were allowed to walk past them into Double Decker while they remonstrated with security personnel on June 7 at 10pm. An official complaint was forwarded by them to the Department of Tourism Commerce and Marketing (DTCM) as well as the hotel management. "The department is very strict about complaints that speak of racial discrimination. The department also takes into account all the documentary evidence before coming to a conclusion. There have been cases where hotel management has forwarded an apology to the complainant," said a DTCM official. Hussain Hachem, general manager of Al Marooj Rotana, told Gulf News that the security guard in question will remain suspended until the investigations are over. "This is the second time in a week we have received such complaints and on both occasions the same security guard happened to be on the scene. We also checked the CCTV frames. The security guard has misbehaved. "How can we be racist? We have 43 different nationalities working for the hotel. You can come and see the various nationalities who gather here to watch the World Cup football matches." He said an apology was forwarded to Wickramasuriya by the Food and Beverages manager of the hotel. Invite Wickramasuriya told Gulf News that they were invited for dinner at the Double Decker pub-cum-restaurant by a visiting colleague. "The hotel security guard informed us that as per the house rules only hotel guests or couples were allowed entry. At that point a number of Caucasians who walked in were not stopped at the door," said Wickramasuriya. "Despite being informed by our host that we have made dinner reservations, we were still asked to leave the venue." According to him, when the hotel staff found them persistent in trying to gain entry they were accused by the security personnel of being improperly dressed. "They pointed to the shoes worn by one of our colleagues and said the laces were undone which is inappropriate for the pub. When our colleague told them that he would do the lace up prior to entering the pub, the staff came up with another excuse of him wearing a pair of boots. "Other white skinned patrons, who entered the pub while we were standing trial at the door were dressed very similar to us. We then moved on to another hotel located on the same street which did not have any problem letting us in," said Wickramasuriya. Follow-up The DTCM official said: "The department writes to the hotel or pub and asks to clarify when we get such complaints. Meetings with the hotel managements and companies against whom a complaint has been filed are also held. Then there is a consistent follow-up done," said the official. "A reply is also forwarded to the complainant." Restrictions on entry 'unlawful' As per the DTCM circular issued to general managers of all hotels and furnished apartments, sport and leisure clubs on April 4, 1999: Food and beverage outlets of hotel establishments, sports and leisure clubs, restaurants and resorts are not permitted to impose any entry restrictions relating to race, colour and profession of guests and customers. The number of complaints received by DTCM in the first five months is 159. The number of complaints registered against hotels is 42. Forms are also available at the Dubai International Airport for visitors to register complaints. Complaints can also be registered directly on to the department's website: . sage & onion Come on people, this kind of thing has been goping on for many years, its only the introduction of tabloids like 7-days, that have encouraged people to come forward and complain. Way to go, we are progressing sniper420
so true...well atleast somebody got started to ween ppl like Liban out and expose thier rascism sage & onion Hey Sniper, Being fairly new here, I am noticing that you will have a go at Liban at any given opportunity, any particular reason? sniper420
hehe well does consider if Liban is Tom, I am Jerry, if he is DIONYSUS I am Poseidon. We had serious fights from very beginning in & outside FC . Well it's fun to poke a stupid moreon who thinks he is omniscient in everything. :twisted: sage & onion Or is that you are George and he is Osama? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: sniper420
well i am senior George ...u were close.. :lol:



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