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Pork- Follow up


K-Dog Let me post a question. Why is it OK for Muslims, not religiously speaking, to consume alcohol but they don't eat pork? I know many muslims who have no problem drinking but they wouldn't touch pork. It can't be purely religious, they are both forbidden. Not to single out any one but a good example on this forum is Bushra who has admitted to enjoying alcohol but has a problem with pork. I'm not here to judge her, it was just an example.
gamercowboy IMO, I think it's because it's easier to avoid pork. Alcohol is present in so many social gatherings in Dubai. Pork may be easy to purchase but when going out with friends in Dubai, sausages, bacon, and pork chops are not part of the usual fanfare. Mojitos, bubbly, and beer are. gtmash
First of all, it is NOT ok for Muslims to drink alcohol. If every Muslim you know drinks, you hang in very un-Islamic circles who get offended over Israel or pork "just because." quatroporte
Its a very good question K-Dog.
I know many Muslim friends who drink alcohol yet they know its forbidden and on the same time have zero tolerance for pork
my humble answer to this question is simply because things like alcohol, drugs and se.x can be classified as " pleasures "..
and people tend to give exception to themselves when they want to enjoy a pleasure... and I think this is the reason why Muslims get involved in those forbidden pleasures!!!
maybe eating pork is a pleasure to some... but I see it nothing more than a delicacy. desertdudeshj Well its not OK as said before booze and pork both are forbidden. You really have to go out of your way to get pork here, so I guess that could be one of the reason. Many of these kind of people have no problem in eating non halal or pork when aboard. Just as same they have no problem with booze here. Also just because you have given into one sin doesn't mean you have to go all the way. I personally avoid both. Speedhump
That explanation makes sense. Easy to get all religious about pork which a lot of people don't like anyway, hard to turn down booze.
I used to do business with Libyans in the 1980's, quite a hardline religious country. They used to have to send a business delegation to Malta every few months to meet their Italian counterparts for discussions on 'neutral' territory. Well, almost to a man they used to drink themselves blind every time.
I think it's an incredible double standard. Of course double standards exist the world over, but it's annoying the way that Muslim clerics order the death of people who deface the Koran, write books like Satanic Verses, allow schoolchildren to name teddy bears after the prophet, burn their national flag, etc., when it is plain that their austere and hardline religion is not even tolerable to a fair proportion of their populace.
I am speaking factually from personal experience about people I have met. If anyone reading finds this inflammatory I suggest they take a long look at themselves! desertdudeshj Well bro the thing is you probally never met a "proper" muslim. The things you see on the media are there just to there to create a stir. If all I ever saw of christianity or the western world ( since majority is "chirstian") were interviews of the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan or the hatefull speeches of Hitler against the jews. Then I would come to an understanding that the western world or chirstians are the most violent and hatefull people in the world, but I know this is not true. Why is it you only see the one eyed cleric shouting death to America in the media and not the ordinary regular muslims leading their peacefull lives. Simply because that would be extremely boring. Would you watch it. I certainally wouldn't ! Yes ofcourse I won't deny it there is a lot of muslims that drink, but just becuase of that you can't call Islam a hardline religon that would be and is totally unfair. You are just stereotyping, although I won't blame you. Most probally becuase most of if not all your contact with muslims is with people like these( nobodys perfect ) You are also not to blame for having such views because you have not seen a true example of muslim or islam. ( BTW Saudi is not a proper muslim country so you can't use that as an example ) If someone does not know how to drive a car properly and keeps on crashing it due to his lack of driving skills, what would you say. Is the car hopeless or the driver needs to improve his ablity. Now you may ask then " show me a proper muslim or a example of Islam " Well to answer that you will have to go right to the source. The Quran and the perfect and best example of a true muslim our beloved prophet Muhammad. Until you have a moderate idea about the Quran and the teachings of the prophet you will never really know what Islam is about. So for you to stereotype Islam into a hardline religon and something none of its followers can adhere to, you need to atleast know the basic fundamentals of Islam. Sorry to sound like I'm preaching here, thats not my intention. rudeboy in islam alchol is not allowed to be consumed. sorry not judging anyone here but if a muslim drinks alchol doesnt necessarly mean they are muslim. there are 5 pillars of Islam and the quran for every muslim to follow. if you do you are a TRUE muslim. if you go oh ill do this and do that but wont do that and i ll ask god to forgive me on friday. sorry but Islam is not like that. and that person isnt necessarly a muslim. there is no such thing as a good or a bad muslim. either you are or you aint. Speedhump
That's what I'm getting at, it's all 'supposedly' so black and white but that's not at all true. If you break the rules of Ramadan, eat during the day or have s.e.x. it's OK so long as you are rich enough to give food or money to the poor (please correct me if I'm wrong, I know I'm no expert) .
Hundreds of years ago in the west you could actually buy a pardon from a priest for any sin you had committed. Preists used to carry around the most common ones already written out and dispense them like newspapers....Catholics still believe if you confess to a priest you are pardoned your sins, even murder (but you'll still go to prison if you're caught) :D desertdudeshj Well you did say correct me If I'm wrong. But if your intentionally going to break your fast by whatever means then that won't work ! Also in Islam there are more ways to be forgiven that there are to sin. Islam is not hard and not like its made out to be. Like all muslims are suppose to be these recluse monks who arn't allowed to have any fun in this life. Islam is a way of life, yes a diffrent way of life with a few basic guidelines. Islam does not forbid you to have fun( ahem clean fun ! ) or be entertained ( ahem again clean entertainment ). Have a family prosper in life and be rich etc etc etc. And no one can judge what one does, as being either good or being bad. Each person will be judged according to his own deeds. You never know a person who might drink, might do a million good deeds a day. So its not for us to judge at best just remind him that this is not the way.

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Speedhump
Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate it. I guess it's the 'deliberate' that is the key, and that's what makes you correct or deviant in your religous actions.
I guess we all ust see too much of the press reporting (for example) the Taliban in Afghanistan banning music, killing people for cutting of their facial hair and shooting barbers, closing girls schools, etc. Now the Swat Valley in Pakistan has fallen to them. Horrific punishments are dealt out to women who are unfortunate enough to have been raped in some less enlightened Muslim countries.
Also Islam will forgive Muslims but not (I think) recusants (i.e. those that give up their Islamic faith) or infidels!
This is starting to sound like an anti-Muslim rant which I don't intend....
Because the West have their fanatics too, but you don't see them doing these things because their governments control them so strictly. desertdudeshj Well you see bro, the Taliban are idiots. They have made up their own version of Islam and think they are doing Gods work. I guess they could be classed something similar to the crusaders who carried out huge crimes against humanity in the name of religon. When it was just about power. These people have lived so long with violence and brutality they know nothing other than this. What does the word taliban mean ? Its derived from the arabic word talib meaning student. Do you see anything student or educated like in these vagabonds ? I won't be surprised if 99% of them can even sign their own name. Students my @ss ! The taliban have done more harm to Islam then they have good. What they are doing and the teaching of Islam have nothing to do with each other. I personally despise the taliban and really have nothing good to say about these ignorant, gun tottting, war mongering, meglomaniac, power hungry fools edit : sorry for the rant Speedhump
Like the vast majority of Muslims you suffer the bad press. Afghanistan has always been a lawless unrulable place. The Mongols, British, Russians, Americans, I don't know who else, all have tried and failed to control it. Why can't we just fence it off? :D desertdudeshj That actually is not a bad idea. Fence them off. They sit for a few days with no one to fight. :idea: they turn on each other and fight themselves to extinction. All's well that ends well :P barbarella
you're speaking of a mu'min....that is someone who actually practices and makes islam a way of life for themselves...a muslim is a person who belives in prophet muhammad being the last prophet and allah as the only god....thats about it....so yes all those ppl with that belief can call themselves muslims...no need to put bad or good infront of it bushra21 Just an fyi, in an attempt to better herself as a person and a muslim bushra had stopped conuming alcohol since a month(I believe, or close to it) before ramadan. I may talk about it, but I no longer drink, hmdulillah. Next on my list is smoking! bushra21 Oh, and I drank not because I specifically enjoyed it, but because I realized it had, at the time helped me cope with certain issues in my life. Also because of the whole peer pressure - all my friends drink I want to try it and do it too ordeal. People are just hypocritical, the ones you're talking about and/or weak...another reason why I stopped; don't want to be a hypocrit dubaidog I can vouch for her. Bushra is a saint. On the two most recent social occasions that I have seen her, she hit the water, that's it. I think most religions teach tolerance, BTW. I am a Jesus freak, so we have unlimited get-out-of-jail-free cards. BTW, Bushra, thanks for putting up with the drunken hillbillies last month! (wow) Now you see why I drink! K-Dog
Well said Quatro. Thats exactly my theory, drinking is fun while eating pork is no fun. Just plain human psycology and after all we are all human first. Hypocricy exists in every religion. I lived in UT for a year and I can write a book about Mormons. Plus we had some Mormon girls in our school and whenever we knew they would be at a party, it was a must attend for us no matter if we were in the middle of our finals. A recent study shown UT is No. 1 in the nation when it comes to porn download.
Speedhump
Good luck with it Bushra, I'm sure it won't be easy, you just have to find peace with youself, that's what it's all about as far as I am concerned. As I don't follow any religion I have to make a code of ethics for myself. Maybe it's not strange that most of what I believe and try to follow is exactly what is preached by the various religions anyway. The only difference is that as I don't believe in an actual afterlife I just do it because it's right, not because I've been promised either life everlasting or hell and damnation when I die! I think billions of others probably need the carrot and stick approach of religion. If a person's religion works for them then it's the right thing for them ;) Speedhump
Desertdude, I didn't ignore this post, I just missed it, sorry!
You're right of course, I can only speak from personal experience and I have not know so many Muslims. Of course I see and read a lot of bad press too. In any society the ones that break the codes of behaviour are the ones that stand out and are recognised. I can accept that maybe that's what's happening here.
Cheers! zonker In a truly educated world, there would be good governance and justice for the majority, and then there would be no need for any religion. In the current state of the world, religion is creating more problems for all, rather than solving any. If you look around the planet earth, you will find people in China consuming rats as a delicacy, and eating dog meat in Korea. And yet here we are making an issue of pork and alcohol! Speedhump What's wrong with eating rats and dog meat. It's less ecologically damaging than farming cows for meat for example. Your thinking is not very evolved. zonker So you think I am low on the evolutionary scale? When I said people eat rats and dogs, I was not implying that there was anything wrong with it; please read what I wrote again, and you will probably understand what I was saying. No need to aplogize; it happens all the time. Cheers. sage & onion
Hope your not including everyone in your "Drunken Hillbillies" description, lmao bushra21
Hehe, thanks dd! Sage, the drunken hillbillies were from a previous get together I believe :p Del
The Bible also says you shouldn't drink. Speedhump
Don't take offence. I said it seemed you were criticising the eating of more sustainable food sources, otherwise why did you mention it in juxtaposition to eating farmed animals like pigs? Evolved thinking in this context would mean that to cricitise eating dogs/rats would show that you were not thinking deeply enough about our planet, but I accept your statement that you were not doing that. So I think we both have misunderstood each others comments.
I was not trying to say you are a caveman, so I don't need to apologise! LOL Speedhump
So why does taking the Holy Sacrament include drinking wine, oh yes, they say it's been turned into the blood of Christ, but it came out of a bottle from Sainsbury's....how crazy is that. :D Del
Because the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for. Speedhump
And it can bullsh*t better after a few glasses of vino..... zonker Speedhump, so now you insult the cavemen!! So now you really do have to apologize, since they were my ancestors........just kidding there! Seriously consuming too much of red meat as well as alcohol is bad for your health, but then also the very act of living can lead to one's death. Life is tedious........and then you die anyway. Speedhump LOL! All true. I for one don't want to live forever :) I'm too old now to follow James Dean's advice to 'live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse' but I'll continue to do the best I can to have fun. Another saying to live by is 'if you can't be a good example to others, then just serve as a horrible warning'. ;) dima_algeria everything is bad for your health or making you anormal (like alcool or drugs) is haram

Oh? i've heard that christians believe that wine is the blood of Jesus and the bread he's meat :shock: Speedhump
During a religiouis rite called the Eucharist, Catholics (not all Christians) believe that bread and wine after being blessed become the body and blood of Christ and are then consumed by each religious devotee. They claim it still looks/tastes like bread and wine but is the body and blood of Christ. It's called transubstantiation.
Magritte the painter also believed this ;)
xero_ my muslim first cousin back in phils. eats pork, drinks alcohol, watch strip bars and porn like theres no tomorrow. :roll: he converted to islam 2 years ago. Misery Called Life
Hey nutin wrong wit drinkin.......as long as its done in moderation!
And if ur young, enjoy and quit worryin, u can alway become a better person later, 4 ur kids and husband! :wink: Del
And the really sad part is, Catholics actually believe that.
Why would a person want to eat/drink Christ anyway? sharfraz
hey,
you mentioned you are a vicar...so you know a lot about your religion....
8) Del
I was joking. Speedhump
yeah sure, rev.... :D Speedhump
Sounds like he got the wrong instruction booklet. bushra21
mmmm i'd rather work on being a better person now, for all i know i could die tomorrow and id rather on the day of judgement God see that i had truly tried to change and be better rather than ask me why i waited and kept it for later :?
that and i really dont sit well with being a hypocrit. Misery Called Life
Fair enough!
I wish u all the best, in ur endeavors, gal! :D skipperman
You know what's wrong with some people?
They take some of the words from ANY holy book literally.
It's just dumb! gtmash
Big change. Welcome to the light. :D



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