Liban
Idiots exist all over the place.
Don't let them get to you. This guy is just a retard looking to be a sensalist. His opinion is just that. An opinion. A very bad one I must add.
bsorc
I didn't like this article, I think its unfair. Especially the bolded part.
A nice method to justify everthing.
"Thanks for your work, ok bye"
Published: 06/28/2006 12:00 AM (UAE)
We come, we work, we go
By Nicholas Coates, Associate Editor
Regardless of how many years I will end up living in the UAE, of one thing I am certain. It is that I shall always look upon myself as a guest in this country.
I live and work in the UAE by the grace and favour of the laws of the land and the courtesy of my employer.
Should any, or all, of these circumstances change then I will be required to leave the country and make my own way in life.
I learnt this lesson soon after arriving in the UAE about 30 years ago. I was told that as a temporary worker, it was best not to form any long-term attachments to the place since at any time I could find myself on the next plane home.
As, indeed, many people unexpectedly did, much to their alarm. (I shall leave aside the very many expatriates who ran off, owing large sums of money to banks that's another story and one that does not show expatriates in a good light at all.)
So, as a "temporary worker" even one of so many years standing it was no surprise to me that the Ministry of Labour recently won its argument in Geneva to redefine immigrant labour as that very category: temporary workers.
I know there are many expatriates who will argue they have worked "long years in difficult conditions helping to bring the country to where it is", but, I argue, it was quid pro quo.
Legal recourse
We gave our labour and in return we got paid. That means a contract of exchange (money for services) was signed, sealed and delivered. If we did not get paid, there was legal recourse to seek redress.
If we did not like the company we worked for, the alternative was to find another job, and if we were unable to find one in the UAE, because of the various government or contractual restrictions then in force, the alternative was to go back to our own country.
The point is, no one is forcing anyone to work in the UAE. Expatriates come to work in the hope of improving their lifestyle.
If it does not prove to be so, then the answer lies in our own hands, no one else. There is no automatic right to employment in the UAE or any other Gulf country, come to that regardless of how many years a person has worked in the country.
Naturalisation, or changing one's citizenship is out of the question for expatriates, again, regardless of how many years a person has lived here (which is why we are now referred to as temporary workers) so it is no good thinking of the UAE as "our country".
That is your place of birth or, in the case of expatriates who have been born in the UAE, ones parents' place of birth. If you find that situation unliveable, then don't live here.
It is wise to remember that as an employee, you do not have any allegiance to your employer beyond the conditions and terms of employment you have agreed to and signed up to.
Employers rarely have regard or concern for their employees for they will, if necessary, "retrench" and gladly sack any number of people so as to keep the company afloat or more profitable.
If an employer thinks like that, why shouldn't an employee think as selfishly? After all, if we are not selfish and "look after No 1" no one else will.
It is natural for a young and developing country to want to use the talents of more experienced or labour-intensive nations to assist in its development.
Equally, it is natural for expatriates seeking better opportunities to seek work in a country with vast employment prospects.
But it does not mean the expatriates should expect any additional entitlements beyond that which have been negotiated and agree upon with their employer.
So, with this in mind, and that in due course of time UAE nationals will want and expect to be employed in their own country, certain measures have to be taken, voluntarily or imposed, to ensure the expanding national population can get jobs, rather than continue to employ workers from foreign countries.
From the outset I used to argue with those who expected more from their "contribution to society".
Then, and still now, I point out that if, in your own country, you were outnumbered 3:1 by foreign nationals, you would feel disgruntled with government policy.
Even more so if the foreigners were employed and you weren't. So perhaps, for a change, expatriates should pause for reflection before making calls for "rights" that do not exist and never have existed.
Its strange you know, I mean i heard about a family who were told they'd be given UAE citizenship because they lived here for 45 years now but then ask for a signature from a ruler.
And Iranians who come in for two years are not citizens. I mean i know how that family went through so much for UAE and infact had close relations back then with some important people and what now, nothing.
sage & onion
What actually didn't you like about the article?, after all it actually states the truth regarding expatriates living and working here.
Liban
Depends on the kind of laborer. This guy is targetting specifically Indian/Pak/Bengali laborers in his tone.
Damned racist.
^ian^
I was more shocked by the statement that people who are born here are not 'from here' instead from their parents country. As an individual, what do they know of their parents country? Very little, and this is supposed to be their home.
I think it's a difficult situation this nationalisation. I can see that many nationals may find it difficult to find a job when compared to the highly qualified and skilled ex-pats that have been imported, but, they can also not forget, this is a situation THEY created.
The UAE wanted the fast-track to being a developed country (a destination many argue that it is not there yet) and they needed this labour to do so. They must now accept the other part of the get-there-quick deal, where they have become a minority in their own country for the sake of growing up fast.
Now they wish to roll back the clock and start nationalising entire employment sectors... a very unpopular move amongst the other 80% of the country. It will be very interesting to see how this pans out.
As for the quid-pro-quo comment - I don't just do what I do for the money, and I put a lot into it. I imagine the author is taking his own retarded lot in life out on the rest of us, but 30 years of being a whinging expat Brit will do that. (No offence to the poms on the forum).
Liban
They tried this in Saudi. Tried to give manager, engineering and other skilled jobs to locals only. Because of the mentality of Saudis, the lack of general experience and education, tt failed miserably.
The Saudis then paid so much more money in salaries to expats back. They are only at a fraction of what they had back then. Another reason Saudi is not what it was in the past.
sage & onion
- ^ian^ wrote:
I was more shocked by the statement that people who are born here are not 'from here' instead from their parents country. As an individual, what do they know of their parents country? Very little, and this is supposed to be their home.
I think it's a difficult situation this nationalisation. I can see that many nationals may find it difficult to find a job when compared to the highly qualified and skilled ex-pats that have been imported, but, they can also not forget, this is a situation THEY created.
The UAE wanted the fast-track to being a developed country (a destination many argue that it is not there yet) and they needed this labour to do so. They must now accept the other part of the get-there-quick deal, where they have become a minority in their own country for the sake of growing up fast.
Now they wish to roll back the clock and start nationalising entire employment sectors... a very unpopular move amongst the other 80% of the country. It will be very interesting to see how this pans out.
As for the quid-pro-quo comment - I don't just do what I do for the money, and I put a lot into it. I imagine the author is taking his own retarded lot in life out on the rest of us, but 30 years of being a whinging expat Brit will do that. (No offence to the poms on the forum).
Like it or not, thats what we all sign up for, I have a friend whose son was born in the UAE 15 years ago and has lived here ever since, in most countries he would have the right of abode. It is of course a fact of life that eventually they will start to force companies to accept Nationals into their work force. And why not, providing of course that they can do the job that they are being employed to do.
^ian^
- sage & onion wrote:
Like it or not, thats what we all sign up for,
Not sure your friends son signed up for that.
- sage & onion wrote:
It is of course a fact of life that eventually they will start to force companies to accept Nationals into their work force. And why not, providing of course that they can do the job that they are being employed to do.
Provided they can do the job is probably the sticking point. I'm not doubting that many nationals CAN do the job, but I doubt there would be 30,000 nationals qualified in Human Resourcing, let alone other positions. The fact remains there just isn't enough of them, and many companies will be forced into a position of hiring sub-standard staff or going without HR altogether.
sage & onion
- ^ian^ wrote:
- sage & onion wrote:
Like it or not, thats what we all sign up for,
Not sure your friends son signed up for that.
- sage & onion wrote:
It is of course a fact of life that eventually they will start to force companies to accept Nationals into their work force. And why not, providing of course that they can do the job that they are being employed to do.
Provided they can do the job is probably the sticking point. I'm not doubting that many nationals CAN do the job, but I doubt there would be 30,000 nationals qualified in Human Resourcing, let alone other positions. The fact remains there just isn't enough of them, and many companies will be forced into a position of hiring sub-standard staff or going without HR altogether.
Actually my friend has no real problem with it, he like most of us realise their is no point in complaining.
Well now that is really the point, thats why I made the comment previously. HR Manager for instance, in my opinion is a highly skilled position.
Liban had an interesting point regarding Saudisation, I remember that as well, in fact I was in Saudi at the time and it really is as he says.
We can all talk about this as much as we want, but who is listening?
yorky500
Is there an underlying theme to the article as well. That people are NOT allowed to/or could not move between Companies within the UASE. If they did, without an NOC, they could be banned.
I got the impression, this was kinda hinted at in the article.
1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
sage & onion
- yorky500 wrote:
Is there an underlying theme to the article as well. That people are NOT allowed to/or could not move between Companies within the UASE. If they did, without an NOC, they could be banned.
I got the impression, this was kinda hinted at in the article.
I thought it was one of many things that he thought were affecting the ex-pat workforce.
Liban
There are ways around everything here though. Lets keep that in mind.
So you cannot work as a secretary. No problem, then your title is receptionist but you do secretarial things... No law against having many receptionists.
:)
yorky500
this is true and you can bet your bottom dollar that the locals will be the highest paid sec's/receptionists in the world when the new workforce rule comes into play.
sage & onion
I think you will find that salary guidlines have already been put in place
MaaaD
As long as those "temporary workers" are not paying taxes they really shouldnt be complaining. But if the country is starting to think on imposing taxes, well alot of things will have to change.
sage & onion
- MaaaD wrote:
As long as those "temporary workers" are not paying taxes they really shouldnt be complaining. But if the country is starting to think on imposing taxes, well alot of things will have to change.
Amen to that
vixnax
Wasn't there an announcement about a year ago that if you lived here for 20 years you could get citizenship?? Am I dreaming?
Liban
Provided you have money and a good reputation and people who can vouch for you, yes you can get citizenship.
MaaaD
its not that simple :)
Gene
It can be frustrating to have lived and worked in a country for 30 years and still be coined as a 'temporary worker' because of the colour of your skin or birthplace. I guess the UAE has a longer term agenda - it simply can't give out citizenship so easily to safeguard its own kind who were here a long time before oil was discovered. They were the poorest people who unwittingly lived through those early hard times and by sticking out then, the government reckons they deserve their 'reward' now. But how many generations can this last?
The locals simply lack the skill and competitiveness to compete on the world stage in industries like engineering, law, medicine and finance. It would be dreadful to see the bubble burst in Dubai who incidentally is taking a do-or-die route of becoming a financial/trading centre of the world and concurrently selling itself as a modern global city with its facinating architecture and skyscrapers with the hope of better recognition worldwide. By achieving that, they have to also retain their roots and kind for cultural reasons and hence regards expatriates as but 'temperory workers' with the means to an end.
I really wonder if a cosmopolitan and modern Dubai with merceneries without any sense of belonging to the country could survive the length of time in a forest of conservative neighbours like Saudi Arabia, Oman & Iran. It would be great if I could witness this in my lifetime.
100% Sheikh Approved!
I feel that because of the way that Dubai treats its expats there is a sense of "fakeness" here. You meet people who dont care for this country (frankly I dont care too much for it either) because they are not allowed to be a PART of it. They cater to the few bouguesie (I'm not sure I spelled that correctly, im trying to say boo-sjwa-zee) locals that sit back and get the money. There is no competition here because there are no rewards and in the end, that is was gets people to do things. Dubai has decided to go the religion way and go through "fear" instead of reward; fear of being kicked out of the country. It will work in the short term, but to truly see this nation progress, thats what it needs to have, nationality. And just like in the US you see immigrants working hard, but you see them getting to compete with people who were born there. Being born in the US doesnt make you any better than someone who came over on a boat, its all about your credentials. That does not happen here, the expats can slave and try to be competitve, but they can easily be replaced by a local who "knows someone". And this lack of nationality, lack of identity adds to so much more. You can see how people spend their money on the most useless materialistic things, such as phone numbers and liscence plates. This is just another way to gain respect, becuz you cant do it here through hard work or accomplishment, you can only do it by have 11 on your liscence plate. Its a sad system and I dont think this country will progress in terms of the worth of its people until it enforces equality. Also, im from the US but I'm brown (well paki) and this is the first country in which people wont accept it if I say I'm American, they always ask me where I'm from, and I have to answer pakistan, otherwise I get confused looks.
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
you need to get over it and you should be use to this type of life style as you call your self a paki/american living in America the place were all the Fake ness/Freaks originated and where the spurn of Satan lives
100% Sheikh Approved!
what adult uses the word "freak" and "satan"? Anyways, yes, America is full of "freaks" or eccentric people, but thats what America is, the land of the free. The only reason why people think we're all freakish is becuz we wear the title happily, we DONT CARE! No matter what you say, an American will always say that America is the best. Hmm....maybe its cuz they grant NATIONALITY! I feel more American then I do pakistani and then I ever will as a UAE resident. But I seriously dont wanna turn this thread into one of those "another american talking about america" things, so I'm gonna stop.
xibit
i know a bengali guy he lived in the uae for more that 40 years and worked for the uae armed forces his childern were born and raised here they dont even know how to speak the bengaldishe language and speak only arabic, last year they kicked him out coz he completed his retirment age, he is now in bangldish he has no family and relatives there and had to stay in an hotel for the first six months, his childern cant get in to any school.
i feel sorry for him, he should had seen this coming and prepared him self.
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
land of the free .
&q=%3Fnews_id%3D12037%26PHPSESSID%3Dd1117beccbd6cae6e4bbf209eb99f499
Liban
Read the article. Got to add that despite the fact I don't like the USA, I must say that idiots abound all over the place :)
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
The language is protected by the First Amendment
Was this the part you disliked?
Liban
I didn't say I disliked anything.
I just said that morons exist in the States which is lead by the Grand Master of the Moronic Miscreant League, and that morons live and come from all four corners of the globe.
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
EDIT
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
EDITED
Metallioum
- Liban wrote:
There are ways around everything here though. Lets keep that in mind.
So you cannot work as a secretary. No problem, then your title is receptionist but you do secretarial things... No law against having many receptionists.
:)
Way to go Liban, my company already did this :D, now our Secretaires are titled "Assistants cum Executives"... I guess that's what all companies are about to do.. however this might encourage some Locals to apply for certain positions and maybe get quite qualified for thoses...
Metallioum
- vixnax wrote:
Wasn't there an announcement about a year ago that if you lived here for 20 years you could get citizenship?? Am I dreaming?
You are honey,,, wake up and smell the coffee, 8) 8)
Metallioum
- xibit wrote:
i know a bengali guy he lived in the uae for more that 40 years and worked for the uae armed forces his childern were born and raised here they dont even know how to speak the bengaldishe language and speak only arabic, last year they kicked him out coz he completed his retirment age, he is now in bangldish he has no family and relatives there and had to stay in an hotel for the first six months, his childern cant get in to any school.
i feel sorry for him, he should had seen this coming and prepared him self.
I do feel sorry for him as well, but c'mon do not you think that he already knew this was going to happen, I mean eventually you will returning home, even if you spend a lifetime here, oneday, you are home again,.. he should have thought of buying a house there, learn his Children their home language, take em to vacations in summer so they can get to know their homeland... anyway that's what I think should have been done.. :D
Mr & Mrs Inquirer
eventually you will returning home, even if you spend a lifetime here, oneday, you are going to return home again
to freedom and a real life :D :wink:
Liban
- Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:
eventually you will returning home, even if you spend a lifetime here, oneday, you are going to return home again
to freedom and a real life :D :wink:
There is no better time that now for you to start your quest home.