valkyrie
THE bloodstained King of Crete stumbles onstage and holds aloft the decapitated heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Muhammad. “The gods are dead!” he calls out to the audience.
"For fear of Muslim anger, the bosses of the world-renowned Deutsche Oper in Berlin have cancelled performances of Mozart’s Idomeneo. The decision has unleashed a storm of disapproval from politicians and writers, who claim that Germany has fatally compromised the freedom of expression."
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Bleakus
dude just let it go
kanelli
I think it is smart of them to cancel it. There are Muslims waiting for the next offense to happen - and it could spark major problems if the opera went ahead.
valkyrie
- kanelli wrote:
I think it is smart of them to cancel it. There are Muslims waiting for the next offense to happen - and it could spark major problems if the opera went ahead.
I disagree, unlike the the Danish cartoon controversy and the pope's remarks, this play trashes all religions equally. The Danish cartoons and the Popes speech only denigrated one religion. I relish the oppurtunity to mock religion, as long as all religions are equally mocked. This play must be shown now.
pinoy1
don't forget the Soldiers for Christ... :wink:
Intimacy
Since there are many Jews who are waiting for this to happen. they would never consider harrasing them by anyhow.
Muslims would rage yes, not just because of muhammad and also because of jesus.
- For the malicious ignorants: the true smartness is to know how to respect and not to offend people. Jesus or Muhammd are not some one you make a joke about to have a laugh.
The one who is lacking something cant give it.
Abdullah
- valkyrie wrote:
THE bloodstained King of Crete stumbles onstage and holds aloft the decapitated heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Muhammad. “The gods are dead!” he calls out to the audience.
"For fear of Muslim anger, the bosses of the world-renowned Deutsche Oper in Berlin have cancelled performances of Mozart’s Idomeneo. The decision has unleashed a storm of disapproval from politicians and writers, who claim that Germany has fatally compromised the freedom of expression."
,,3-2376967,00.html
Mozart was a Freemason right?
valkyrie
- Abdullah wrote:
- valkyrie wrote:
THE bloodstained King of Crete stumbles onstage and holds aloft the decapitated heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Muhammad. “The gods are dead!” he calls out to the audience.
"For fear of Muslim anger, the bosses of the world-renowned Deutsche Oper in Berlin have cancelled performances of Mozart’s Idomeneo. The decision has unleashed a storm of disapproval from politicians and writers, who claim that Germany has fatally compromised the freedom of expression."
,,3-2376967,00.html
Mozart was a Freemason right?
I believe the freemasons are very religious
Abdullah
- valkyrie wrote:
- Abdullah wrote:
- valkyrie wrote:
THE bloodstained King of Crete stumbles onstage and holds aloft the decapitated heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Muhammad. “The gods are dead!” he calls out to the audience.
"For fear of Muslim anger, the bosses of the world-renowned Deutsche Oper in Berlin have cancelled performances of Mozart’s Idomeneo. The decision has unleashed a storm of disapproval from politicians and writers, who claim that Germany has fatally compromised the freedom of expression."
,,3-2376967,00.html
Mozart was a Freemason right?
I believe the freemasons are very religious
ok
Chocoholic
Oh just show the flippin' play. People have to stop being so sensitive.
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NoWoRrIeS
I agree that there's extremists/wacko's everywhere. But I haven't heard of recent killings in the name of Christianity (correct me if I'm wrong). I wish people would just shut up about religion... I'm very happy to not be religious at all. :wink:
kanelli
I agree, but unfortunately we have seen that anything said about Islam or the prophet Mohammed can insight violence and hatred - so I think people should be careful. Some can handle free speech, some can't.
Mint Tulip
When Muslims complain about the disrespect of their religion, they're thought of as overly-sensitive by some. But what of Judaism? Judaism and the Holocaust seem to be untouchable subjects. Why is it OK to involve Islam in controversy and disrespect but not Judaism? Holocaust denying is illegal in some countries after all...
kanelli
That is an old argument that has been discussed at length in many threads on this forum. The same applies for Jews - they should be able to accept free speech as well.
Mint Tulip
Whose interpretation of "free speech"? One can not impose ones views on a group. Many insist on treating a religion as if it were a political party; as if an outside minority or majority has a right to influence it. That's should not be the case.
And as to Judaism, I was referring to European countries, secular countries choose to censor themselves when it comes to this particular religion. There lies the unfairness. It's not about Jews censoring themselves it's about their influence on secular nations and soceity.
kanelli
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
sniper420
- kanelli wrote:
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
they dont have to their soldiers do their job legally :roll:
Mint Tulip
- kanelli wrote:
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
Israel is a religious state - their wars are based on religious ideology. They committ far worse crimes, war crimes. Isn't the democratically elected Palestinian authority being bullied because it has not accepted the state of Israel? Iran is bullied in the same way. Where is
their freedom of speech then? and what of the "freedom" used abstractly, does this fuzzy notion justify a war? Fighting for "freedom" (in Iraq)? Fighting for freedom is ok according to some... That's a far worse reality than fight for religious respect, than squirmishes over a religious insult (not that I defend this type of violence and reactionary behavior - I don't).
I think people need to look at the "whole picture" more rationaly and honestly and without so much preconceived bias.
^ian^
- valkyrie wrote:
I believe the freemasons are very religious
Not so, Freemasonry is areligious and apolitical. At least, that's what they'll have you know.
Chocoholic
The Freemasons are pretty much mafia, the father of an ex-boyf was a Freemason. You don't mess with those guys.
mraph33
- Mint Tulip wrote:
- kanelli wrote:
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
Israel is a religious state - their wars are based on religious ideology.
No it isn't....no they aren't
Mint Tulip
- mraph33 wrote:
- Mint Tulip wrote:
- kanelli wrote:
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
Israel is a religious state - their wars are based on religious ideology.
No it isn't....no they aren't
:!: :!: :?: Are you serious? You didn't know that Israel is a Jewish state/religion-based state and that they claim that their Jewishness is threatened by their neighbors?
Wow...
"The state of Israel is the culmination of nearly a century of activity in Zionism .... The struggle by Jews for a Jewish state in Palestine had begun in the late 19th century.........to divide Palestine into a Jewish State."
"... As such, it is the world's only Jewish state..."
NoWoRrIeS
I don't think it's very wise to go ahead with this part of the play... Better be safe than sorry. If some muslims get angry over a cartoon, believe me a play is gonna be far worse..
sniper420
i dont know why those morons pick up sensitive issues all the freaking time? Why dont they leave this topic alone? those actors ont starve to death not acting this crap. Freedom of expression deosnt mean u stand on a podium and cite rascist comments or disrepect one's beleifs........ give respect and u shall earn respect ........jeeez
bushra21
- sniper420 wrote:
i dont know why those morons pick up sensitive issues all the freaking time? Why dont they leave this topic alone? those actors ont starve to death not acting this crap. Freedom of expression deosnt mean u stand on a podium and cite rascist comments or disrepect one's beleifs........ give respect and u shall earn respect ........jeeez
I agree with what you are saying about respect.
In response to what you said about freedom of expression; however, i think some people would disagree with you. Some would argue that freedom of expression is that, the right to express yourself freely.
Just for the record though, i agree with you on the freedom of expression part as well, there are some guidlines that should be followed.
sniper420
- Chocoholic wrote:
The Freemasons are pretty much mafia, the father of an ex-boyf was a Freemason. You don't mess with those guys.
my dad unfortunately is
valkyrie
- bushra21 wrote:
- sniper420 wrote:
i dont know why those morons pick up sensitive issues all the freaking time? Why dont they leave this topic alone? those actors ont starve to death not acting this crap. Freedom of expression deosnt mean u stand on a podium and cite rascist comments or disrepect one's beleifs........ give respect and u shall earn respect ........jeeez
I agree with what you are saying about respect.
In response to what you said about freedom of expression; however, i think some people would disagree with you. Some would argue that freedom of expression is that, the right to express yourself freely.
Just for the record though, i agree with you on the freedom of expression part as well, there are some guidlines that should be followed.
The play attacked all religions equally. If the play selectively attacked one religion, than I would have agreed with you. Why are you apprehensive of mocking religion? Personally I think religion jokes (Think George Carlin) are very funny.
sniper420
- valkyrie wrote:
- bushra21 wrote:
- sniper420 wrote:
i dont know why those morons pick up sensitive issues all the freaking time? Why dont they leave this topic alone? those actors ont starve to death not acting this crap. Freedom of expression deosnt mean u stand on a podium and cite rascist comments or disrepect one's beleifs........ give respect and u shall earn respect ........jeeez
I agree with what you are saying about respect.
In response to what you said about freedom of expression; however, i think some people would disagree with you. Some would argue that freedom of expression is that, the right to express yourself freely.
Just for the record though, i agree with you on the freedom of expression part as well, there are some guidlines that should be followed.
The play attacked all religions equally. If the play selectively attacked one religion, than I would have agreed with you. Why are you apprehensive of mocking religion? Personally I think religion jokes (Think George Carlin) are very funny.
yeah it's liek ridiculing the minority races for the stuffs they practice. btw why even trouble them......if u r atheist ok they respect u same is the case u have to respect their beleifs..........if u r type of guy liek kanelli and choco beleiving atheism is panache for all the fighting........I am sorry u havent read history
valkyrie
Religous people aren't a minority. And again, the play didn't just attack Muslims, Jesus was also decapitated along with other religious figures. Further more this play was written by Mozart, if you know anything about music/culture Mozart was one of the greatest musicians to live. Why would you want to suppress art? The cartoons were one thing, they were drawn to denigrate Islam, however this play does not seek to denigrate religion/culture but to provoke thought.
sniper420
- valkyrie wrote:
Religous people aren't a minority. And again, the play didn't just attack Muslims, Jesus was also decapitated along with other religious figures. Further more this play was written by Mozart, if you know anything about music/culture Mozart was one of the greatest musicians to live. Why would you want to suppress art? The cartoons were one thing, they were drawn to denigrate Islam, however this play does not seek to denigrate religion/culture but to provoke thought.
well i didnt say Islam was only religion insulted. Most of the chrstains atleast in west dont give damn cos they dont care abt religion anymore and they themselves ridicule Jesus. They are involved or busy with something more important like career. But in East especially if u go places like Dubai religion plays very important role in their life and ridiculing their religion is more like insulting thier core culture. One of my Muslim told me he is better off with rascist remarks than insulting the prophet.
Everybody has something which is dear to them and willing to die for . For u it may b ur gf for me my kitties , for a nation soldiers die protecting their dear motherland and time and again Muslims are willing to die for their religion
mraph33
- Mint Tulip wrote:
- mraph33 wrote:
- Mint Tulip wrote:
- kanelli wrote:
Do other countries and Jews riot, burn flags, attack embassies, kill people, or turn to terrorist organisations after Muslims or whoever deny the holocaust or the historical facts?
Israel is a religious state - their wars are based on religious ideology.
No it isn't....no they aren't
:!: :!: :?: Are you serious? You didn't know that Israel is a Jewish state/religion-based state and that they claim that their Jewishness is threatened by their neighbors?
Wow...
"The state of Israel is the culmination of nearly a century of activity in Zionism .... The struggle by Jews for a Jewish state in Palestine had begun in the late 19th century.........to divide Palestine into a Jewish State."
"... As such, it is the world's only Jewish state..."
It is a state with a Jewish majority - but it is a democratic country, with some religious influences. It is not run solely on religious law as you see in countries that call themselves "Islamic countries."
Chocoholic
Oh please, people have to stop being so sensitive about things and gettign offended so easily. If they're having a go at everyone then what's the problem.
I'm sick and tired of these times where you have to what what you say/do in case you offend someone or something, in case one nut job takes it too far.
If everyone made fun of everyone else, then how could anyone get offended. Get off the high horses, it's really tiring.
mema
r u 4 real
Quote:
- It is a state with a Jewish majority - but it is a democratic country
To ban people from praying or allowing to them to pray at gun point is democracy to u
to take over historical mosques and turn them to night clubs and bars is democracy to u.
When Israeli settlers are free to take over any palestinian territory this is a democracy..i fail to understand ur point.
Mint Tulip
- mema wrote:
r u 4 real
Quote:
- It is a state with a Jewish majority - but it is a democratic country
To ban people from praying or allowing to them to pray at gun point is democracy to u
to take over historical mosques and turn them to night clubs and bars is democracy to u.
When Israeli settlers are free to take over any palestinian territory this is a democracy..i fail to understand ur point.
mema, I'm amazed too :shock: I can't believe this person is in so much denial.
mraph33 When a Jewish person from any random country can immigrate to Israel simply because they're jewish but a Palestinian living abroad can not go into
his own but occupied land because he's, well, Palestinian...then what is this type of state? Democracy is not the reality, it's just on paper. Besides, it's a Zionist Jewish state, that's the reality (Zionism is not considered democratic). Even Israel's marriage laws are based on religion...
anyway, we're getting off topic...
NoWoRrIeS
- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please, people have to stop being so sensitive about things and gettign offended so easily. If they're having a go at everyone then what's the problem.
I'm sick and tired of these times where you have to what what you say/do in case you offend someone or something, in case one nut job takes it too far.
If everyone made fun of everyone else, then how could anyone get offended. Get off the high horses, it's really tiring.
It's not even about people getting sensitive and offended. I to believe in freedom of speech. So many Christians/Catholics etc that I know make fun of God and Jesus and every other person in the bible...that's normal in the western world. I saw hundreds of cartoons making fun of the bible and heard thousands of jokes about Moses or whomever..
The fact remains that a lot of muslims in the world live in un-educated/underdeveloped countries, not in a democracy, and they seem to enjoy fighting the western believes...hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam...so it's better not to provoke them just to avoid more problems. People r dying for this kind of freedom of speech, so it's just not worth it. I would not want to go into hiding because I want to express how I feel about Islam. I would have to watch my back all the time. Like Theo van Gogh who was assasinated in Amsterdam a few years ago.
(film_director)
Moral:If u keep ur mouth shut u might live longer
Mint Tulip
- NoWoRrIeS wrote:
...hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam...I would not want to go into hiding because I want to express how I feel about Islam. I would have to watch my back all the time...Moral:If u keep ur mouth shut u might live longer
Is this a joke? If it is, it's a very bad one. Dude, your stereotyping and exagerrations are atrocious.
Next time, take your own advise, about the keeping your mouth shut. :wink:
Mint Tulip
:D :lol:
dudette, yes, I read the papers and watch the news....
If you're not stereotyping and exagerrating how do you explain this statement: "
hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam " What is this all about???
"
And since this is a forum people give their opinion about things, and I stand by mine so there is no need to shut up ."
You're the one that gave this advise/moral in the first place. :wink:
NoWoRrIeS
- Mint Tulip wrote:
- NoWoRrIeS wrote:
...hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam...I would not want to go into hiding because I want to express how I feel about Islam. I would have to watch my back all the time...Moral:If u keep ur mouth shut u might live longer
Is this a joke? If it is, it's a very bad one. Dude, your stereotyping and exagerrations are atrocious.
Next time, take your own advise, about the keeping your mouth shut. :wink:
No dude it wasn't a joke, and I'm not a dude. And I'm not generalising or stereotyping. Don't u read the papers or watch the news? I'm not saying all muslims behave in this way, I have many muslim friends. The educated/well-informed muslims don't burn churches or Pope-dolls. I really wonder where u r coming from and who u support, u got me confused. And since this is a forum people give their opinion about things, and I stand by mine so there is no need to shut up.
NoWoRrIeS
Maybe that was a bit harsh, but I didn't mean all muslims. Just the ones who do burn and kill and so on in the name of Islam. These people r dangerous.
kanelli
There are Christians who kill as well. John Lennon was killed by a Christian wacko for making comments about being more popular than God, and look at all the abortion doctors/nurses/patients that have been killed over the years by fanatical pro-life Christians. There are wackos everywhere, but it seems there are far more popping up in the Muslim faith due to perceived attacks on the religion and current political affairs in the Middle East.
sniper420
- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please, people have to stop being so sensitive about things and gettign offended so easily. If they're having a go at everyone then what's the problem.
I'm sick and tired of these times where you have to what what you say/do in case you offend someone or something, in case one nut job takes it too far.
If everyone made fun of everyone else, then how could anyone get offended. Get off the high horses, it's really tiring.
well in FC everybody makes fun of each other but u do seem to get offended. I remember jamal and me made fun of u u seemed to get offended. It's all about one's ego being hurt or not. In west religion may b crap but in east it's part and parcel of their life and insulting thier religion is hittign their ego which can make them go wacko. So i guess the word we are looking here is "empathy"
sniper420
- NoWoRrIeS wrote:
- Chocoholic wrote:
Oh please, people have to stop being so sensitive about things and gettign offended so easily. If they're having a go at everyone then what's the problem.
I'm sick and tired of these times where you have to what what you say/do in case you offend someone or something, in case one nut job takes it too far.
If everyone made fun of everyone else, then how could anyone get offended. Get off the high horses, it's really tiring.
It's not even about people getting sensitive and offended. I to believe in freedom of speech. So many Christians/Catholics etc that I know make fun of God and Jesus and every other person in the bible...that's normal in the "western world. I saw hundreds of cartoons making fun of the bible and heard thousands of jokes about Moses or whomever..
The fact remains that a lot of muslims in the world live in un-educated/underdeveloped countries, not in a democracy, and they seem to enjoy fighting the western believes...hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam...so it's better not to provoke them just to avoid more problems. People r dying for this kind of freedom of speech, so it's just not worth it. I would not want to go into hiding because I want to express how I feel about Islam. I would have to watch my back all the time. Like Theo van Gogh who was assasinated in Amsterdam a few years ago.
(film_director)
Moral:If u keep ur mouth shut u might live longer
theo van gogh was a moron according to me who should have better researched abt violence of women than go attack and stereotype whole religion. A bunch of women got abused and they turn renegades and go to him he gets brainwashed and makes a movie insulting and denigrating whole ppl.
Quote:
"hell they kill anything on their path to eternal life in heaven in the name of Islam"
yeah there are extremists i religion or nationalism (the guy who assasinated rabin for Oslo) so their case isnt unique.
Quote:
"a lot of muslims in the world live in un-educated/underdeveloped countries, not in a democracy, and they seem to enjoy fighting the western believes"
yea most of them live in under developed but some do live in democratic. Indonesia which has largest muslim pop is democratic, india second largest muslim pop is democratic, pakistan third is quasi democratic, bangladesh is democraic ruled by a woman whose opposition is alos a woman. As long as they burn flags and effigies i dont care but many go over attacking embassies is same as i any third world country and not only restricted to muslim states.
Enjoy fighting west? Ahem we west always think we are more civilised than east and our civilisation is under attack when the fact is for past 500 yrs we have been attakcing other civilisation. In this play who is attakcing whom?
True there are some ppl in east who dont like west but same is the case for us.
lastly but not least I guess u didnt get the whole picture as ur views are only from present western news and sites so u better fooloe ur advice to keep quiet.
NoWoRrIeS
I agree with you sniper that Theo van Gogh was kinda stupid for making this movie without thinking about the consequences it might have...but this is an example of how freedom of speech can kill u... Have you seen the movie? (Submission)It's really horrific, even as a Dutch citizen was shocked by it. But a lot of things going on in Holland are shocking to me so nothing new. That's one of the reasons why I'm not living there.
Also I agree that I'm not fully informed on the situations in the world when it comes to who is muslim, buddhist, catholic, about where they are....democracy...dictators...history of all of the above.. don't wanna know either...
Yes, the west is always attacking the east and vice versa. They should just back off and respect each others differences and get on with it.
I follow my dear grandfathers advice and steer clear from such discussions about religion and politics. (am even wondering why I replied to this post in the first place) It just gives trouble. I would like to live a peacefull life where not everything in the news is constantly, about religions and people fighting over it. All the books want the same in the end...peace for everyone...right? It's just not happening. I wish people would all focus on what is far more important... to get rid of hunger and disease in the world.
So my advice to keep quiet is my own personal opinion. For my own safety...And I don't force it upon anyone. I hope my children, if I have them, will follow my advice though...
kanan
I dont think that attacking and insulting other religions is a civil thing to do or a form of freedom of thought! why dont they make plays that promote love and harmony instead? why religions are so much rediculed in most forms of drama? you shoud show respect to other cultures and faiths so people can respect you
Bleakus
- kanan wrote:
I dont think that attacking and insulting other religions is a civil thing to do or a form of freedom of thought! why dont they make plays that promote love and harmony instead? why religions are so much rediculed in most forms of drama? you shoud show respect to other cultures and faiths so people can respect you
word
Chocoholic
- kanan wrote:
I dont think that attacking and insulting other religions is a civil thing to do or a form of freedom of thought! why dont they make plays that promote love and harmony instead? why religions are so much rediculed in most forms of drama? you shoud show respect to other cultures and faiths so people can respect you
Nice thought, but sadly most people are interested in nice fluffy things, they're more interested in blood, guts and violence, just look at which are the most well attended movies at the cinema! Anything thought provoking or with a nice message, dies a death here, but shooting, swearing, torture etc go down a storm - sad really.