hashman
that\'s bad decision.......now homeless children will def increase
valkyrie
From :
Quote:
- Nicaragua poised to outlaw all abortions
Most parties back the measure, which church leaders helped draft. Medical and rights groups denounce it.
By Héctor Tobar, Times Staff Writer
October 26, 2006
Nicaragua's legislature is expected today to approve a tough law that outlaws all forms of abortion, including those procedures intended to save the life of a pregnant woman.
The measure has been supported by most major political parties ahead of the Nov. 5 presidential election, as they seek to win over voters in this overwhelmingly Roman Catholic country. Leaders of the Catholic Church in Nicaragua helped draft the bill and have mobilized followers to support it.
Medical associations in the country and international human rights groups have strongly criticized the proposal.
Since the late 1980s, two other Latin American countries have adopted similar measures — El Salvador and Chile . At least 34 countries, mostly in Africa and the Middle East, prohibit all abortions, without exception, according to the Center for Reproductive Rights, a U.S.-based nonprofit advocacy group.
The new law would establish prison sentences of six to 30 years for women who abort their pregnancies and the doctors who perform the procedure.
Leaders of the leftist Sandinista National Liberation Front and the ruling right-wing Liberal Alliance have said their representatives will vote for the proposal . The two groups control all but one seat in the 92-member legislature.
[...]
Women's groups in Nicaragua charge that the proposed law is a cynical preelection ploy that panders to the influence of the Catholic Church. The text of the law, they note, is almost identical to a church proposal drafted this year .
Outgoing President Enrique Bolanos fast-tracked the bill, using his authority to present emergency legislation to the National Assembly.
[...]
Ipas estimates that 32,000 illegal abortions are performed in Nicaragua each year, many under unsafe conditions. Only 24 abortions authorized by law have been performed in the country in the last three years.
In 2003, a 9-year-old rape victim received an abortion under the current law's provisions.
Nearly all Latin American countries outlaw abortion, but most, including Nicaragua, allow the procedure in cases of rape and to preserve the life of a pregnant woman. Many countries, including Mexico, are working to make abortion more accessible to women who qualify for such exceptions.
"We see this proposal as part of a backlash," said Luisa Cabal of the Center for Reproductive Rights. "This not only goes against a regional and international trend, it would be a human rights violation in itself."
Ambassadors from some of the countries that donate millions of dollars in aid to Nicaragua, including Sweden and Finland, wrote to the legislators this week urging them not to rush to approve the measure. Nicaragua is one of the poorest nations in the hemisphere and depends heavily on foreign aid.
[...]
Only one of the four leading candidates in the presidential election has come out against the law — Edmundo Jarquin of the Sandinista Renovation Movement, a dissident faction of the Sandinista Front.
Presidential candidate Daniel Ortega of the Sandinista Front, who holds a large lead in most polls, has spoken out in favor of the measure. Ortega, who is seeking to return to the office he held in the 1980s, in September signed a declaration drafted by evangelical leaders that declared the existing abortion laws in Nicaragua are "a pretext to legalize all abortions."
[...]
Ana Maria Pizarro of the Autonomous Women's Movement said the Sandinistas' backing of the tough new antiabortion law had caused a private split among the party's top female leaders.
"The position of the party leadership is hypocritical and opportunistic," Pizarro said. "They've created a crisis within the women's movement of the Sandinista Front."
This news is very bad. This isnt just progressive reformism like Chavez pursues, this is reactionary, its origin is the Catholic Church! This throws my judgment of the Sandinistas into question now. What do people think of this? What is the situation in Nicaragua? As the article states, the Sandinistas were once very pro-feminist, why have they changed like this?
arniegang
such an interesting post
NOT
:roll: :roll: :roll:
valkyrie
- arniegang wrote:
such an interesting post
NOT
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Sorry Arniedagangbang, why don't you tell me what interests you? I do like to please.
kanelli
kanelli
kanelli
Another typical example of a party pandering to get the backing of other powerful groups (the church). Of course, it is the women who get their rights trampled on in the process. The decision is moronic and flies in the face of what is known to be medically, socially and psychologically sound practice in many circumstances. The result of this will more deaths of women who;
- Cannot sustain a pregnancy and die because of it
- Search out illegal and dangerous abortions
- Commit suicide because they are carrying a fetus from a rape and can't handle it
Of course, many unwanted children born will likely end up in orphanages or on the street.
kanelli
See, if this thread was about Arabs, Muslims, US, West, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. then lots of people would be writing. :lol:
Mint Tulip
Kanelli, I don't think that it's not that people don't care, it's just that Latin America is not as relevant to the Middle East as the 'US, West, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.'
I am conflicted about this issue. On the one hand I think that soceity has a resonsability towards protecting the rights of those unable to fend for themselves, Life should be protected. But soceity also has the responsability to take care of marginalized infants and children and do everything to halt poverty.
And then the women who resort to abortions: poverty does not excuse a woman from being irresponsible when it comes to birth control. Raising a child in misery or having an abortion is far more consequential than preventing conception, yet the number of multiple abortions per women is quite high. The women who just don't care about the consequences of their actions thinking that they can always get an abortion do a diservice to soceity. Abortion should not be the birth control method of choice while prevention is so accessible - if a woman has access to abortion she has access to preventive birth control methods.
But I think that in cases of pregnancy from rape or when the life of the mother is in danger, abortion should not be denied.
shafique
Ok - I'll comment kanelli (I didn't really want to comment initially, because anything I have to say is against the Catholic Church).
On the point of abortions, birth control and the sinfulness of marital relations (that it is something distasteful and not to be enjoyed).. Islam has the opposite view of the Catholic Church.
Islam teaches that a foetus below 3 months old is not independently alive and therefore does not have the rights of a full human being. In all circumstances though, where the life of the mother is at risk, abortions are not only legal but recommended - according to medical advice of the seriousness of each case.
Abortion as a form of birth control is not encouraged though - other birth control methods are not banned and only marital relations are 'lawful' in Islam.
Its interesting to consider though that many people in the USA would applaud the proposals - the pro-Life lobby is voiciferous and widespread!
Cheers,
Shafique
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Chocoholic
MT, with all due respect I think you're forgetting that in many of these palces, there simply is no birth control because once again the powers that be 'the church' forbid it.
Rules like this are sad and pathetic and take womens rights back into the dark ages.
So you're telling me that if a women becomes pregnant after being the victim of rape, that she'd be forced to have the baby?
That a woman would be forced to have a child, which would be severely mentally or physically handicapped?
Go through a pregnancy which could potentially endanger her life?
I totally agree that abortion is not a form of birth control and that is absolutely correct, however there are likely to be a lack of accessible birth control methods and a lack of s.e.x education.
valkyrie
- Mint Tulip wrote:
Abortion should not be the birth control method of choice while prevention is so accessible
Thats pretty absurd, no one would plan ahead of time to use abortions in place of other forms of birth control because even the least invasive non-surgical abortions are much more unpleasent (physically not morally) than birth control pills, condoms, spermacides, or other common types of contraceptives...people only use abortion as birth control when their primary form of protection fails no one would deliberately get pregnant if they didn't want it.
- Mint Tulip wrote:
The women who just don't care about the consequences of their actions thinking that they can always get an abortion do a diservice to soceity.
Theres no such thing as "abusing" abortion. Clearly no one in the anti-choice lobby actually believes that fetuses have human rights, except when they're the product of rape, incest, or a risky pregnancy, its just that they, sadistically and out of a bizzar patriarchial complex, want to punish women for having recreational s.ex, so they don't care so much if they get abortions for other reasons.
Mint Tulip
chocoholic,
In Latin-America preventive birth control is widely available with little or no restrictions.
valk,
No one plans on getting HIV but still there are people that knowing the risks decide to take chances and have unprotected s.e.x. only to end up contracting this disease. It happens to the most informed of people. It's the same with unwanted pregnancies, people take foolish risks that don't only affect them but ultimately soceity. Many don't use prevention - if abortions were mostly the result of failed preventive measures, the numbers of abortions would be much less.
What bothers me about the mainstream feminist movements is that abortion seems to be one of the main platform issues if not the number one issue. And women who disagree with abortion are not considered true feminists in their eyes. Well feminists have a right to choose if the agree with abortion or not. Feminism is a lot more than supporting abortion and blaiming the Catholic Church or men for the irresponsability of many. These movement politicize this issue as much as the Right to Life movements do. Their mantra: "A Women's Has a Right to Choose" garners them far more attention and support than if they emphasized: "A Woman Has An obligation to Be Responsible for Her Own S.e.x.ual and Reproductive Health."
kanelli
Actually, there are many different kinds of feminism and not all women are against other women do not support abortion.
As far as I know, birth control is not widely available to everyone in Latin America - especially the poor in the rural areas. If they are Catholics many are also taught that they should not use birth control but other methods like withdrawal and the rhythm method. These are highly faulty methods as everyone knows.
This decision to halt all abortions is terrible because it means that the life of a fetus is given priority over the life of a mother - for example, if the mother is a risk of death while trying to carry the fetus to term. Also, why on earth should a raped 9 year old child be forced to continue a pregnancy and give birth? A 9 year old's body is not ready to birth a baby, despite the unusual fact that she obviously became fertile early. Why on earth should a raped woman be forced to carry a child that was a result of a violent attack on her? The psychological impact of these kinds of pregnancies on women is significant.
I also agree with Valkyrie that no woman plans to use abortion as a form of birth control. It makes no sense at all that women would have sex and then just go to the doctor to have surgery every time they get pregnant.
Women can become pregnant because they were careless, and most definitely these kinds of pregancies are what cause controversy in the abortion debate. All abortions should not be banned just because of the controversy of women getting carelessly pregnant.
shafique
well said Kanelli - agree with you 100%.
cheers,
Shafique
Mint Tulip
kanelli wrote:
Quote:
- Actually, there are many different kinds of feminism and not all women are against other women do not support abortion.
Yes, true, but the truth is also that for the feminist majority abortion is a key or the key issue.
Quote:
- As far as I know, birth control is not widely available to everyone in Latin America - especially the poor in the rural areas.
A great number of the Latin American populations lives in urban areas rather than rural areas. Even the poorest of countries like Bolivia, has stepped up their women's health programs in their rural areas (providing oby/gyn health care and free birth control). And also it would not make much sense to say that because a woman was unable to have access to birth control she will terminate an unwanted pregnancy. If she's able to have access to an abortion facility, she's surely able to have access to birth control.
Quote:
- I also agree with Valkyrie that no woman plans to use abortion as a form of birth control. It makes no sense at all that women would have fun and then just go to the doctor to have surgery every time they get pregnant.
It doesn't make sense, does it? Does it make sense that many people out there, in industrialized countries, are still having unprotected s.e.x. and contracting HIV/AIDS? It's doesn't make sense, but this doesn't mean that it is not happening. People make foolish life altering decisions everyday. Statistics show that in some countries as many as 50% of abortions are performed on women who did not use any form of birth control.
Quote:
- Women can become pregnant because they were careless, and most definitely these kinds of pregancies are what cause controversy in the abortion debate. All abortions should not be banned just because of the controversy of women getting carelessly pregnant.
I think that there is nothing wrong with exposing the issue of "careless pregnancies." I think that the proliferation of abortion is a step back for women in general. It sends the message that women are not smart enough to take care of their reproductive health and therefor have to resort to this drastic option. Of course there are women who can't take care of their health due to extreme poverty and/or subjugation. But a great number of women do have the means to make wise reproductive decisions, even in poverty. By the way, a banning on all types of abortions is not something that I would support at all; abortion is a medical necessity in certain situations.
valkyrie
- Shafique wrote:
Islam teaches
Got any thoughts of your own though?
Quote:
- that a foetus below 3 months old is not independently alive and therefore does not have the rights of a full human being. In all circumstances though, where the life of the mother is at risk, abortions are not only legal but recommended - according to medical advice of the seriousness of each case.
There is a consensus that a newborn is a human person. People have different opinions about the stage at which human life becomes a human person. This is the core disagreement that drives the abortion wars. The concept of personhood for "pro-lifers" is just religious fanatacism. Religious fanaticism is not fact.
There is no way a zygote, embryo, or fetus is a human being. They are human, but so is a fingernail attached to a human body. So is a breast cancer cell or a hair follicle or a skin scraping. Until it can survive outside of the mothers womb, meaning fully developed, hence sentient, it is not a human being.(Late First-Early Second Trimester) If a fetus doesn't have a developed brain, its not sentient, and not a human being.