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It's over...


Nick81 Monday, 7AM, official cease fire... Oh man, let's just hope this is the last time Lebanon goes through this... Now's the time to rebuild. Hope I can go spend a few days there now... Wonder when the airport will reopen
uae75 Dont know why the cease fire cant be NOW!!! Anyways, I hope the israelies will stick to this cease fire. yshimy Can't be now....!!!! Ask Israel, they moved forward once the decision was taken Corcovado At last, we won Chocoholic Corcs, with all due respect there are no winners in this situation. Everybody lost. sharewadi
:shock: :?:
Who's "we" and what did you "win"?
I assumed you were Lebanese - in which case you've "won" replacement of Hizbullah in southern Lebanon by the UN and Lebanese army (probably ineffective) since the terms of the ceasefire require resolution 1559 to be implemented. And Israel will exit Lebanon. Mind you, they weren't there two months ago.
The cost of that prize is destruction of Lebanese infrastructure, tourism, economy, not to mention the now homeless Lebanese and distraught families.
Oh wait, you've got the Shebaa farms now. Or will that go back to Syria?
If you're Israeli you've "won" nothing much that I can see - perhaps implementation of resolution 1559 if the UN and Lebanese armies are effective at disarming Hizbullah (not sure how likely that is). The two kidnapped soldiers remain kidnapped unless removal of all Israeli military from Lebanese territory includes them.
I suppose Olmert has shown he's prepared to fight and is therefore more popular with the Israeli public.
If you're Iranian/Hizbullah, you've "won" some respect from the Arab world because you showed that you could stand up to the Israelis. But everyone knew that Hizbullah backed by Iran could do that anyway. For a short while at least. The action is worth less than the threat though. What will Hizbullah/Iran do now to prove how powerful they are? Go back to kidnappings and suicide bombs as in the 80s?
I'm struggling to think of a "winner" anywhere out of this mess. sharewadi From the BBC...

Since the UN and Lebanese troops will take days to deploy, the Israelis will stay, Hizbullah will continue to attack them (especially if they keep those two kidnapped soldiers on Lebanese soil), Israel will retaliate and that doesn't sound like a ceasefire to me :? ... ^ian^ Not to mention both sides will be unleashing as much as they can up until 7 am. It's basically saying you have 24 hours to try and pound the crap out of your enemy, and then take a breather. Of course, it could also show once and for how toothless the UN really is. Nobody wins in war. Nick81 oh man... can we try to stick only to the important part: Violence stops, no more civilans die. I honestly don't give a crap about anything else. And yes, no1 won... kanelli You are right Nick81, let's look at the positive - the violence will cease!

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Corcovado well shar for the first time ever israel is getting hit on its own ground , for a month the Unconquerable army couldnt do anything to the resistance but kill the innocents, and destroy Lebanese infra structure and Hezbollah's missiles did not stop … I think in 1967, Israel won over Egypt, Syria and Jordan in 6 DAYS..!! And couldn’t do any major harm to the resistance so we won, Israel knows that her image as a powerful country with an unbeatable army has been shaken. .for the people who believed in freedom and stood infront of Israel ..LEBANON IS A WINNER Chocoholic Sadly I doubt anyone with relatives who died will see it that way. HP Its over because our paki brothers made hassle in UK :lol: Say thanks to me please :P Tomorrow we have independence day of Pakistan , we kicked British out from India in 1947 :lol: Chocoholic Stop being a troll. Chocoholic Also here's the other catch, watching the news and they're saying that the Israelis have only agreed to stop 'offensive' fire, not 'defensive' fire. sharewadi
:shock: :?: :?:
First time ever? Suicide bombers have succeeded before (admittedly, not from Hizbullah in recent years although they have successfully attacked Israelis in Israel since 2000).
Yes, Israel got a surprise at the tenacity of Hizbullah. My point is, look at the carnage left behind in Lebanon. I hardly think Lebanon has won anything. They've lost a lot though.
No major harm to the resistance? What part of the resistance are you talking about? Infrastructure, weapons, people have been harmed a lot.
A winner is someone who achieves their objective. Hizbullah's stated objective is to wipe out Israel, they hardly did that. Lebanon's objective is presumably to live in peace and rebuild their country after the Israeli exit in 2000. That's been shattered. Israel's objective was to get back their kidnapped soldiers and destroy Hizbullah. That's not happened. Iran's objective? Who knows. Maybe they're the winners.
You sound happy. I don't really understand why but I suppose that's a good thing considering how distraught you sounded during the past few weeks. MS There is no doubt that, from the military point of view, Israel lost this war big time. Not a single objective was met. Hezballah is not affected. It became clear that the Israeli army is not something to be afraid of. Of course civilians suffered, but that was not the announced military objective. In the end, I wish that Lebanon gets back on its feet, and becomes once again prosperous and shining. Corcovado
thank u dear , it sure will ... we will forever rise ..and shar... please read the political reviews and the israeli newspapers ...they are the ones saying that israel lost the battle arniegang
Corcovado the fucking Israelis left toys-like bombs to kill the babies and children :evil: :evil: :evil: i hate them, I HATE THEM ALL... i cant believe their guts , they are murderes , evil creatures :evil: :evil: sharewadi
That should aerate your spleen quite well :shock: .
Where did you get this information? I can't find it. So far the only reference I've found to toy bombs is dated 2003.
Are they evil because they're Israeli or because they leave toy bombs? Corcovado
can u please stop acting like Mr.know it all? :x i hate them because they are murderers and they kill innocents cold blooded and now they left behind thousands of bombs and al jazeera wrote about the toy bombs :evil: :evil: sharewadi
:shock:
I don't know it all, that's why I'm asking questions and looking for information. If my questions annoy you, you don't have to answer them.
I looked on Al Jazeera (website) already and didn't see anything, that's why I thought I'd ask.
So you can call me Mr Blind Knowitall now. Chocoholic I wouldn't trust Al Jazeera either, they're guilty of being a propaganda machine. Corcovado
Al Jazzera are very honest and they didnt hide anything from the world they even broadcast Qana's massacre live on air . kanelli Corcovado, Al Jazeera is not 100% honest in its reporting. Chocoholic That's the problem Corcs. I disagree with their policies, I think they play into the hands of those who would cause destruction by giving them an outlet to show their horrid videos of murder and massacre. I think they're thoroughly irresponsible and biased. Plus the fact that not one other news agency has reported it, also raises suspicions. Once again you have to be objective. If I see a story on something, I always, always go searching to see who else is carrying it, and at this time, surprise surprise, no-one else is. And for something as provocative as that that, everyone would have picked it up. Chocoholic I also agree with Sahrewadi, after googling, yahooing and msning, the only story that has been thrown up is from 2003. Until another news wire picks it up, I'll treat their story as incitement. Corcovado
like who? BBC or Sky news or the american Channels ?? All they were showing was the israelis shocked or crying or whatever... they didnt give a shit about arabs and al jazeera as an arab station must broadcast what the western stations are trying 2 hide from the world kanelli Corcs, when I see you in person I'll tell you some stories I heard from a very reliable source. All media has its own slant, and to me Al Jazeera is as bad as Fox - so that is pretty bad. I have watched both CNN and BBC during this crisis and they are definitley telling both sides. The BBC has been more equitable compared to CNN. Chocoholic Actually I thought the coverage onm Sky was very good, and covered pretty much all sides. They had reporters based in both Lebanon and Israel and came live from both locations throughout the day with what was happening in each territory. They seemed to be making a conscious effort to keep and even opinion on everything, which was more than some channels did. With regard to Al Jazeera, no other network anywhere in the world broadcasts the tapes of beheadings and the like, like they do. I see them as encouraging people, and they certainly portray a biased opinion. If they didn't broadcast such things and allow them onto their website, then these people would have less of an outlet for their actions. They have received many complaints for this in recent times, and it's certainly not in the public interest to show such things. Chocoholic Repeat post - sorry. uae75 Choco who r u kidding when u said "Sky was very good, and covered pretty much all sides"!!! Are you kidding me!!!! Even one of ur English MP's had a go at Sky news a week ago cuz they are not objective at all!! Sky news is like Fox News!! They are 2 faces of the same coin!!!!!! kanelli I've never watched Sky, but a British friend of mine once told me it is also pretty much like Fox. arniegang
totally agree with you Chocs.
This is why they play video's on behalf of Al Quada, Al Jazeera is just an outlet and an advetisment for terrorists.
Stangely enough these sort of acts dont create the same amount as passion when televised as i have seen on here over the last few weeks.
Also interesting to note i dont see any passion shown whatsoever to the daily killings of innocent people in Iraq or other muslims being slaughtered in other parts of the globe.
Everyone likes to hate the Israelis, but no one seems to hate any Arab that kills another Arab or Muslim killing or slaughtering another.
Strange Chocoholic Well I'm entitled to my opinion and I thought it wasn't bad. At least they had reporters in both territories! Unlike many networks that just relied on what they were being fed. And Fox and Sky are similar because dun dun dun Sky is owned by Rupert Murdoch! But it's not s biased as Fox. sharewadi Ok, I really am blind. I still don't see anything on Al Jazeera about the toy bombs :shock: . freza First, Al Jazeera has NEVER showed beheadings on air. Al Jazeera is known for its impartiality and for their coverage of uncomfortable truths and news items that other networks don't dare touch. bushra21 I personally am not a big fan of Al Jazeera. But I am happy that the war has ended. Inshalla everyone in Lebanon is ok and will be able to start over...again. Im looking forward to going to visit my family, inshalla they are all right as well, havent been able to contact them for two weeks now :cry: Chocoholic
No, you can just download the whole gory things from their website. It's well known, where do you think the other news channels get their imageries of hostages from? Supplied by - you guessed it - Al Jazeera. freza WRONG! Al Jazeera has not shown beheadings on their website either! While it's true that Al Jazeera has received in the past these types of videos, they don't air the full tapes. Al Qaeda have their own (temporary) websites in which the videos have been easily accessible to anyone. shafique I have to say that I do think Sky's reporting was balanced as well - just last night the presenter was interviewing an Israeli military spokesman and gave him a really hard time - asking uncomfortable questions and at one point saying something like "you are just telling us political ideology, we asked you here to comment on military matters.. now did you or did you not achieve the military aims.." and "that's all good and well, but it is very clear that the destruction was caused by Israel airforce bombing (after the IDF guy said it was all Hizbollah's fault)" at the end of the interview asked something like: "Hizbollah have said they will help reconstruct the 15,000 houses destroyed, will Israel also help with this", the IDF guy didn't answer but effectively complained that there was media bias and no one was reporting about the Israeli houses and people - who would help them. The interview ended with a sarcastic commment from the presenter: "We'll leave that question hanging then" Also interesting to hear Bush say that it was Hizbollah that lost the war! :) As for Al Jazeerah - there appears to be a concerted effort to discredit the channel and brand it as a supporter of terrorism. However, this is propaganda according to respected BBC journalists who have gone to work for al Jazeera (I can't personally comment, as I don't yet understand Arabic - and I take it that perhaps those commenting on Al Jazeera are basing their comments on third party reports rather than actually watching the reports on AJ) As for hosting videos on beheadings... if what was said above is true - that they did not broadcast them but linked/hosted the videos, then I can't really see what the fuss is about. The BBC etc all reported that the videos were available and on the web - they were not put there by Al Jazeera but available on other web sites (i.e. even if AJ hosted the video instead of linking to them, they appeared on other web sites - there are many such web sites showing attacks on troops etc in Iraq.. sites which people complain are propaganda for Al Qaeda). As far as I have seen Al Jazeera has broadcast videos that do have a public interest value - the videos of Zaharawi and BinLaden give us their view. Remember that the BBC etc all broadcast the videos/interviews of Sinn Fein/IRA etc during the troubles. Therefore I think it harsh to criticise Al Jazeera for broadcasting Al Qaeda's video messages (when the BBC etc all quote these when they come out) and for linking to videos that are available on the web and similarly reported on other media channels. I feel I'm sitting on the fence on this post.. supporting both Sky and Al Jazeera! :) (PS Rageh Omar and David Frost now work for Al Jazeera) Cheers, Shafique Chocoholic
They still link to those sites! Which in my view is an advocation of what these groups are trying to do. So it makes them just as bad.
You won't change my opinion of the channel! Chocoholic Great post Shaf. Sky have got some pretty ballsy reporters. And good to see them giving people a hard time. It can be very difficult for journalists to stick to a non-bias position, but sometimes a little sway one way of another can really up the anti on the people they're interviewing as they don't expect it. Good stuff. shafique Chocs, glad you approve of the post on Sky. (Certainly a marked contrast vs Fox)
Re Al Jazeera:

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I think this is harsh to say a news channel is condoning beheading when it links to videos on the internet. The BBC etc all reported that the videos were posted on the net and even named the web sites.
I would not condemn the BBC for doing so.
The BBC regularly has links to external sites which are related to the news items.
Therefore, I find it a little hard to comprehend what the accusation of unfair bias of Al Jazeera is based on? Surely not just on providing links to external sites?
There is certainly a media bias (in terms of coverage - what gets to the screen) when it comes to reporting of the Israeli/Palestine attacks in the news I could watch in the UK.
Every suicide bombing in Israel is shown within hours of it happening, sometimes within minutes. How many times have we seen smouldering wrecks in the background and ambulances and paramedics milling around?
Contrast this with the number of times we have seen the aftermath of a rocket attack in Gaza that killed Palestinian civilians and children. Contrast this with when we have seen the bulldozing of the house of the parents of a suicide bomber and the destruction of fruit orchards belonging to the family. We tend to 'hear' about these after the events and occasionally see photos and footage long after it has taken place.
Al Jazeera and similar channels have sought to re-dress this balance and show the news from the Arab side of the conflicts - a more dangerous place to be as their journalists, infrastructure have been seen as military targets by the US.
The bias in the Palestinian reporting is one imposed by the Israelis - they make it unsafe to be in Gaza etc when the offensives are going on, or they impose a media blackout - like when they went into Jenin and committed crimes against Humanity (according to Human Rights Watch etc).
(Come to think of it... I think I'll send my cv off to Al Jazeerah.. :) ) uae75
Choco....Wrong again, Aljazeera doesnt even link to these sites. It never even showed once an actual beheading, they always were against showing such images. Get your facts right, cuz i am very sure this info was fed to you, and u never actually checked it. This only shows you that not everything that is fed to you should be true! Chocoholic Well several people I know managed to download such things linked on their site - so I guess they must all be wrong then?! shafique Interesting fact UAE75 - I've been assuming that they did link to sites showing the beheadings, based on what Freza and Choco posted. But if they did not actually link to these video sites, then they are in the same boat as the BBC etc. As I said before, i don't understand Arabic so don't watch al-jazeera so can't comment on whether they did link or not - but I am interested in hearing about why Chocs, Kanelli, Arnie etc have written that they do not approve of Al Jazeera - would their opinions change if it transpires that Al Jazeera did not link to these videos and never showed them? To be fair, the main criticisms of AJ that I have read relate to them broadcasting the videos/audio of Zaharawi and Bin Laden, much to the opposition of the US administration. You'd expect the US administration to object - just like the UK government tried to silence the IRA in the UK. I think that it is only healthy to have freedom of the press and hear what people have to say - and then dismiss them if you don't agree with what they are saying. Cheers, Shafique Chocoholic They are getting better. However there has been outcries over the things the network has carried over the last couple of years, featuring the things we've been talking about! I even wrote to the heads at Al Jazeera to complain. Believe me I certainly wouldn't have done that if they weren't doing these things. uae75
Check with your friends again, and you will know the truth, I am positive :) Chocoholic I already know. I guarantee you they got the links from the Arabic website! Nuff said, not arguin the point anymore. uae75
Shafi, you are actually right, Aljazeera got criticized for broadcasting videos for Zahrawi and Bin Laden, and the American and UK governments did pressure Qatar to stop showing such videos, despite them trying to spread there so called "democracy" in the middle east.
I will admit, Aljazeera did piss alot of the arab governments too, and sometimes they did fall in the "bias" trap, just like many news channel. They even got me pissed from time to time, but this is the result of having a channel that expresses different views.
But in general, there objectivity is well respected in the arab community, unlike other channels. shafique Fair enough Chocs. I've started learning Arabic - but I've got a long way to go... the hope is to be able to watch some of these channels eventually! As a general point though - sometimes the decision about what to show and not to show is not always clear from a journalistic perspective. For example, the BBC and other British media all broadcast the first few hostage videos of the UK hostage in Iraq (Ken Biggley?). There was some opposition to this and then subsequent videos were not shown. Similarly, there was an outcry when UK servicemen were captured and shown on TV by Iraqi forces - the media in the UK said this was in contravention of the Geneva conventions and some media channels refused to carry the footage (although the main ones did). By contrast, Iraqi POW were intially shown and photos of the medical examination of Saddam after capture were prominently broadcast.. I would not think that the likes of Sir David Frost and Rageh Omar would go and work for Al Jazeera if they were as biased as some make out (I'm sure the money is good, but I haven't read anyone saying that these journalists have sold out or are compromising on their journalistic integrity by working for AJ). cheers, Shafique uae75
We can keep going back and forth about who is right and who is wrong, but you are right, enough is said, cuz obviously you have your views and you'd never accept anything else. uae75
Well Shafi, lets hope when Aljazeera launch their english news channel, it would be as good as the arabic version in order to show the non-arab viewers the other side of the equation. :) Chocoholic To be honest Shaf, I was never a fan of David Frost in the first place. The main reason many of the channels would have pulled the videos of UK hostages would be out of respect for the families, nothing more. Chocoholic
uae75, that's not the point at all. If I know I'm wrong then I'll always admit it. But in this case I know that these things have existed and happened, so I'm not going to agree just to make someone else feel better about it. sharewadi
is in English.
I think there's a difference between reporting a beheading and showing the actual event. Anyway Al Jazeera is biased because they don't report the toy bomb story :shock: ... uae75
If you say so my Choco...its just a friendly discussion, you express your views and I express my views, and none of us has to agree to it. Its the main objective of this debate :) Chocoholic Edited by me because I can't be bothered to fight the point. Chocoholic
ahahahaha - nice one dude! Yeah still no evidence on any other news wires. I've been monitoring all morning - zip! Chocoholic uae75, that's fine, no worries. Apologies for getting a little het up. It's one of those days. shafique toy bombs, toy bombs? I hope that this isn't a reference to cluster bombs which are particularly nasty - but I have to say, I haven't heard any references on the news sources either. re: David Frost.... you mean you didn't watch 'let's go thruuuuu the keyhole' ? :) (I used to catch Frost on Sunday on the occasions I was up by 9am, and he has my respect for his early satire work in the 60s) Talking about news sources- chocs you said early on in this Lebanon conflict that there were reports of Iranian soldiers being found with Hizbollah, I've been keeping an eye out for confirmation of this, but to no avail... has this been proven yet? Cheers, Shafique uae75
I think it would be difficult if not impossible to prove if there were any iranian soldiers with Hizbollah. uae75
Dont worry about it Choco. Chocoholic A few news wires carried it for literally a couple of hours. But I have a sneaky feeling it was all hushed up. It was reported that 4 Iranian reserve guards were killed fighting alongside Hezbollah, but everyone knows these guys are pretty much working together anyway, so no real surprise. Ahhhh through the key-hole, what a lame tv show that was. Just don't like the guy, I find him creepy. Chocoholic Actually I suspect what happened, was that sketchy reports came out and a few wires ran with it, without getting confirmation, which is very naughty. Corcovado
all the arabic channels reported the bombs that look like small toys , and now south lebanon and south beirut is full of them , who cares who says what when yesterday a family of 5 died cos they touched it .. ISRAEL IS EVIL ADMIT IT , i think alot of u wont see it till they throw a nuclear bomb on lebanon :x or maybe u will find another excuse :evil: :evil: sharewadi
Corcovado mentioned it but hasn't come back with a reference. Come to think of it, haven't seen anything from her (or him?) since.
I heard about Iranian soldiers with Hizbullah too but it was second hand and hardly surprising enough that I could be bothered trying to verify it. It's not significant to me one way or the other since I'm of the opinion that Iran and Hizbullah are not independent.
Hizbullah isn't a nationality anyway - they're bound to have many nationalities in their membership.
Toy bombs however do surprise me, that's why I want to see a reference. kanelli Corcovado, they have nuclear weapons and could have used them already. What is all this toy bomb business? sharewadi
Ah, you're still there. Good. Why won't show the report then? Haven't seen it in Gulf News, 7days or Emirates Today. Surely they're not western controlled are they? They don't seem to shy away from reporting the brutalities inflicted by Israel.
Can you at least post a link to one of the Arabic reports then.
That may be your judgement but I don't see what gives you the right to instruct me to agree with you. And anyway, I have attempted to keep my opinion of Israel to myself - successfully since it seems you have quite the wrong impression of it.
That's the second time you appear to have taken on moderator status (or more) with me. As far as I know, whether or not you are a moderator, I believe the forum rules allow members to have their own opinions. No doubt you'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'd prefer it if one of the other moderators corrected me. Or confirmed that you are a moderator. sharewadi
Israel may be brutal, but they're not going to do that. Corcovado
moderator? they has nothing to do with it , we are 2 people with different opinions thats it... and i dont usually agree with urs , but Normale freza
EXACTLY!!! uae75
sharewadi,
Here is a link to what Corcovado was talking about.
&channel=3&journal=2006/08/15&id=69125
Its in Arabic and in Alittihad Newspaper. freza Al Jazeera regularly features interviews wih pro-Israeli pundits and politicians; its political talk shows regularly if not always feature opposing views on a given subject. It airs Bush speeches in their entirety. And Bush has earned a lot more air time, by many more hours, than Osama Bin Laden. Their features are newsworthy and relevant not only to the region but the world. They've been the first to break many stories and again, to feature stories that others don't want to touch because it goes against the propaganda news of others .
I imagine that the ones criticizing Al Jazeera (the TV network) are very well versed in Arabic and have seen hours of its programming but still have managed to form their surprising opinion (and incredible amount of MIS-information!). Otherwise it would be straight out ridiculous for someone to criticize this network if without even speaking or understanding Arabic! Touching upon what uae75 said, If some people have been told that this network is propaganda, then these people should start using their own minds to think for themselves for a change... freza sorry, erased info before submitted :? sharewadi
Disagreement is fine. Telling me how to post and what to think is what I'm referring to.

Thanks :). sharewadi
Sorry, that's Dubai based Al Jazeera.
I presume people are referring to Qatar based in this topic ( ). sharewadi Ok, here's the on English Al Jazeera as far as I can tell.
Both and English versions are talking about 6 people died from a cluster bomb explosion. I don't follow the reference to games and stationery in the Al Ittihad Arabic story though. Are the police saying the claim is nonsense or that it's insane that there are bombs disguised as toys? It sounds like the toys are planted with mines left behind from previous occupation of South Lebanon - if correct, another good reason for Israel to hand over their maps (which was one of the terms of this ceasefire resolution).
I'm surprised there's no reference to it in the Al Jazeera story in English and I can't find a similar story in Arabic on Al Jazeera (problem is with my searching in Arabic I presume). arniegang just to clarify I moderate in here. Things are ok to date, can we all keep it that way please, please dont be tempted to get personal. Chocoholic Sketchy reports on Sky of 2 Fox journalists being kidnapped in Gaza. sharewadi
Same report on Al Jazeera. But that's a bit off-topic no? ajb
Not sketchy ... one is a NZer ... so its all over the news here. sharewadi
I thought we were talking about news about Lebanon/Hizbullah/Israel conflict?
Where has everyone gone? I'm still curious about the bit in the article I didn't understand clearly. Surely there's someone who can do a better job of translating it for me? Chocoholic It was only just breaking at the time and I didn't see the whole report. Not really 'off topic' seeing as we were talking about 'news stories'. Chocoholic Well the journalists were taken from Gaza, so it's obviously for something eh? fayz
Out of curiousity have any of you been watching Al Jazeerah English? It's been on in Dubai as a free to air channel for at least 2 months. What do you think of it?
I was watching the Palestine unity signing this morning and it reminded me of this discussion.
/ shafique Fayz, No - I haven't seen the channel yet, I haven't found it when I channel hop. I have a DIC box - do you know if it is being shown on this? I confess that I tend to only watch BBC News on Dubai TV and watch downloads of programmes from the US (Lost, ER, CSIs etc - currently watching Heroes from the start)! Will have a look for Al Jazeera International again later. Cheers, Shafique shafique Update - found the channel, it was no where near the arabic original channel in the list. First impressions are that it is very professionally put together with some interesting Documentaries advertised (Witness looks intriguing, for example). I knew Rageh Omar and Sir David Frost had joined them, but was pleasantly surprised to see another familiar face from the UK in Shahnaz Pakravan there hosting her own show. Cheers, Shafique



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