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Israel and Lebanon


Anlil EDITED FOR FLAMING
kanelli EDITED FOR FLAMING Anlil That is another myth, part of the brain wash that is going on, the Jewish and thier lovers trying to convince people that Hitler was going to kill gays gypsies, Asians Africans, Etc. The fact is different; he actually had treaties with many countries that did not have blond hair and blue eyes. (Italians and Japanese were not Arians) But we know well how many people trying to change history for the favor of the Jewish cause. and some people Refuse to admit the source of the problem. kanelli It is very frustrating to be a citizen of a country that stands by and watches all the atrocities. I sign petitions and write e-mails to government officials, but I still feel helpless. I'd march here but am afraid to do that in this country - wouldn't hesitate to do it and did do it in other countries. I give money for aid, but that doesn't stop the bombing or help influence the political situation at all. shafique The situation is dark. I draw parallels with the period in South African history where there seemed no hope for the black South Africans. We wait for a Nelson Mandela figure - but note that the US and UK viewed him as a terrorist and for years did not advocate for the rights of those whose ancestral land was stolen to be restored. I cannot envisage a peaceful SA without the blacks being given equality in their own lands. Currently, one Arab life is clearly not worth the same as any other human life - this situation is only going to widen the rift and make things worse. I cannot in all conciousness tell a suffering Arab that they are wrong to feel hatred and contempt towards Israel and the US, and yes even the UK who I am ashamed to see is going against the will of her people yet again in refusing to call for an immediate ceasefire. War crimes are being committed in full view of the media - being shown graphically in all Arab media and less graphically in general, but shown never-the-less - and this can only fuel the rage and frustration of anyone with a heart. And what does the Uk and US do? The US sends more bombs to Israel. Sad. Anlil Kanelli, I respect your view in the conflict; it is nice to call for peace, But again, my view is different, I don’t think it is possible to make peace with those criminal murderers. nostradamus That is another myth, part of the brain wash that is going on, the Jewish and their lovers trying to convince people that Hitler was going to kill gays gypsies, Asians. GET YOUR FACTS correct Hitler did exterminate a vast numbers of Gay’s Gypsies, Asians. Edited: Inappropriate content Nick81
Want my opinion? You ARE the problem. (not you :P I mean the people opposing peace)
It all starts with intolerance, religious racism and of course the mother of all problems: ignorance. Anlil Jewish Racism and Terorrism According to Rabbi Ginsburg
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, head of the Kever Yossev Yeshiva (school of Talmud) in Nablus stated, "The blood of the Jewish people is loved by the Lord; it is therefore redder and their life is preferable."
The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it. Source: Yitzhak Ginsburg, "Five General Religious Duties Which Lie Behind the Act of the Saintly, Late Rabbi Baruch Goldstein, May his Blood be Avenged"
the Jews as evil demons???? ohhhh poor them :twisted:
Part of the problem is not the source of it kanelli
There is evidence that refutes many of these claims. That likely doesn't matter though. :lol: Some people try to change history to paint the Jews as evil demons to suit their own agendas. Some people refuse to admit that their own attitudes and biases are part of the problem.

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Anlil The Real Cost of US Support for Israel: $3 Trillion
Chocoholic Sad to say that while there are people who're blood thirsty and wish hatred towards others for whatever reason there will always be conflict. In my humble opinion, if you oppose peace between nations and encourage destruction, then YOU are part of the problem. Nick81 Is making a point worth paying THIS price? Is a child's agony acceptable because we just CAN'T find a way to live together peacefully? This simple case "should" push all countries, involved or not in this conflict to put an end to the violence... But like I said in another post, somehow religion and politics come first... XRW-147 Guys, I realise that everyone is passionate about their beliefs to varying degrees but please discuss your views is a respectful and constructive manner, and refrain from personal attacks - no one here is the enemy. Corcovado thank u kanelli ... please all enough personal attacks ..we really dont want this thread to be locked please kanelli Sorry, I'll behave myself now. Back to the subject, not personal attacks. Geoman Hi I haven't been monitoring the forum for a long time, as I've been away for a while. Anyway, just wanted to point out a good link on this crisis. It's a good site for keeping up to date on the latest developments, and includes ways to help people in Lebanon. Apologies in advance if it's already been posted. Cheers Lebanon Under Attack: Temporary Forum about the war on Lebanon: kanelli EDITED FOR FLAMING mraph33
I did all those things also. That is what you do when you live in a democracy. And I do think that 1 person makes a difference. Just in a democracy, the change takes a little longer.
Anlil why does the truth hurt many so much?? those cowards who hide behind the internet and get rude are laughably pathetic :lol: , cowards. xibit i really feel sry for the lebenese ppl, the family of a really good friend of mine was in lebenon for their vacations and they went through hell to come back over here. and its really sad how all arabs have covered their eyes thinking that they are safe and nothing will happen to them as long as they keep licking umcle sams arse. My prayers are with the Ummah Nick81 I liked the joke :oops: Corcovado
excuse me did u read anything in the topic?? or at least did u read the title? first 2 lines are fine ... the rest is totaly out of context so please edit it :? kanelli If Choc or I, or anyone else talks about peace and everyone equally deserving a chance to live - you tell us we don't have a clue. That is illogical. I will never support the destruction of any group of people, and I don't really care what anyone thinks about that or my knowledge of the "facts". Genocide is wrong and there are no "facts" that could ever support it. kanelli Exactly Fayz, but they will never admit to being part of the problem. fayz
The sad thing is there are people like you on both sides, as such peace will never be achieved. Corcovado
i think its better for u to remain silent cos u have no idea whats going on... and if u think millions want peace with israel then ur wrong So WRONG murphy this is an interesting view...not unexpected
mraph33 Freza, why don't you stop patronizing the entire forum with every post of yours. Intolerance is part of the problem, not leading to the solution. Every single one of your posts says the exact same thing. Why don't you read the UN reports that say that Hezbollah has been firing on UNIFIL soldiers who have been trying to help Lebanese civilians escape. Or the wide range of news stories that Hezbollah launches rockets from civilians areas. Your response to everything that doesn't match your view is "American/Zionist conspiracy." There is no one in the forum who has expressed any support for the Israel attacks. Your hate-filled ranting has reduced the quality of discussion that once existed here. freza
Decades? Um, well two decades.. Hezbollah has existed since the early 80's. You know why they exist, right? To protect themselves from a previous invader - Israel. (Who is saying that Hezbollah are angels? silly comment. But look at the facts, look at who have not been angels.) Israel was planning this re-invasion for years, the media and analysts have discussed it; Israel has not denied it, actually there is evidence out there to prove that this was planned. You're way, way behind on the news kanelli. Keep up will you.
When are you finally going to come out of your Zionist closet? You're not fooling anyone here.... murphy
I was watching one of the news channels on satellite TV - they did not really elaborate though.
[/url] sharewadi
Here's a couple of statistics

says 4,053 Palestinian deaths for about the same period.
Works out to about 2 a day. More or less depending on whether you include Israelis.
And I've just seen that the MEPC gets its figures from the PRCS so they're not exactly independent sources :oops: . Lionheart Isreal could do what it wants, because Arabs are weak, greedy, lazy bums who can't even stand up to punch of Zoinist mutherF***ckers. Where is Saud Arabia, Emirates, Kuwaite, Baharian, Jordan, Egypt, in condemming this aggression by the Zoinist. Is it only up to Syria and none Arab Iranian to defend whatever dignity Arabs had left. Arabs don't even have the balls to shut the Oil to the west...to protest against this naked aggression against soveriegn nation. Wallahi this not only sicking, but also cowards by Arabs especially in gulf. sharewadi

Not quite. I'm trying to find some numbers but I think it's something like a couple of thousand since the Intifada started.

Yes if you're talking about the PNA/PLC. They replaced Fatah (part of the PLO) as the majority party in elections January 2006. Mahmood Abbas is still PNA president though. Nick81
Understandable. Every media is doing everything in their power to make it look as if every single Lebanese is supporting Hezbollah. Chocoholic I think the Iraqi's have too many problems of their own to care. They've just had their Oylmpic coaches kidnapped and wrestling team murdered. HP
That happened in different time :). Its never gonna happen , not atleast in this life :0) raidah
u can be pissed on whomever u want HP, but what u just said is horrible. now here pretty much everybody knows ur specific sense of humor, so i doubt u meant what u wrote. but even so...the idea of an atomic bomb in itself is HORRIBLE. dont joke about it. mraph33
Good thing you're not exaggerating a little.
If you want to talk about the world doing nothing, 2 days ago 200 people were killed in India and that is already off the news. mraph33 I hope someone will smack upside the head both Nasrallah and Olhmert, before this gets blown up into something REALLY big. arniegang sorry to sound a thickie did Hamas replace the PLO ?? Corcovado Now beirut is underfire... Israel bombed the airport i cant go home :cry: my family is there and i am worried... i have to be there... Israel is killing my people and palestinians...they are destroying lebanon and Palestine and its about time someone stands in ISRAEl face... i woke up and cried today... happy tears :cry: and sad ones..... ISRAEL GO TO HELL :evil: :evil: lebanon and Palestine HOLD ON WE WILL WIN MaaaD Yes Israel is freaking out, they have one corporal caputred in the south.. and now two in the north. They have two fronts open with a prime minister and defense minister that have very little military expeirence and those acts they are taking are out of deserpation. It is very low blow to hit the airport especially during the summer when most of the people are coming back for summer holidays. I hope the world can see how Israel for the paste weeks is ready to distruct the whole middle east for 3 of its soldiers killing many innocent civilians for 3 military men !!! On the positive side this is huge for the resistance against the occupied forces and I hope that it will mean lots of women, children and other innocent people in Israel prisons might see freedom soon. Nick81 You forgot the essential: Hezbollah go to hell They are a plague. With them around we will NEVER know peace in Lebanon. MaaaD Nick i love how you are blaming Hezbollah for this !!!! They are practicing there legal right to armed resistance against an occupying force and have captured two soldiers. How is hezbollah responsible for the actions of the war machine (i.e the state of Israel) ? YOu should be proud of Hezbollah and the achievments they have made, if it wasnt for them and there protection of the south Israel would have still been there bombing Lebanon's infrastructure almost weekly as was the case when they were controlling the south !!! MaaaD
Also, one more comment on this part. How do you want to acheive peace ? Throw away Hezbollah's weapons and then become a sheep like Egypt and Jordan and get peace ? Well here is a news flash for you this wont bring peace to lebanon but rather make it weaker against a war hungry neighbor. kanelli The news reports say that the Israeli soldiers were captured in a cross-border raid. Who was going across the border? Were the Israelis captured on Lebanese soil, or did Hezbollah capture Israelis across the border? MaaaD here was the story is according to Israeli :
The fighting began at about 9:00 A.M., when a group of reserve soldiers in two armored jeeps was conducting a routine patrol of the border. As the jeeps passed between Moshav Zarit and Moshav Shtula, Hezbollah attacked.
An initial inquiry revealed that the Hezbollah operatives had crossed the border earlier via a "dead zone" in the border fence not visible from any of the IDF lookout posts. There are dozens of similar "dead zones" along the northern border, though the IDF said that lookout cameras to cover this particular spot were due to be installed next week. The assailants may have used a wheeled ladder to climb over the fence.
The operatives hid themselves in an overgrown wadi about 200 meters on the Israeli side of the fence and waited until the IDF troops arrived, whereupon they attacked, apparently with a combination of explosives and antitank missiles.
Three soldiers were killed during the initial assault, while one soldier was seriously wounded, another lightly wounded and a third suffered a shrapnel scratch. In addition, the assailants kidnapped two soldiers, whose medical condition is unknown. According to the IDF, Hezbollah probably had an escape vehicle waiting on the other side of the fence. The entire incident took no more than 10 minutes, and the Israeli soldiers apparently never fired a shot. kanelli Well, if Hezbollah did come across the border to attack and kidnap Israeli soldiers, then Hezbollah should take responsibility for the retaliation attack that has killed innocent Lebanese and wreaked havoc on Beirut. Militant groups do not have the support of all the people and some of their actions that are out of line have significant repercussions on the population in general. Yes, the Israelis are out of control with their conduct - they are so heavy handed that it isn't funny - but the fact remains that Beirut would likely not have been attacked if Hezbollah militants did not cross the border and capture Israeli soldiers. I'm so sorry that everyday Lebanese have to suffer, as well as the Palestinians. They need to gain some control over the militant groups if there is ever going to be peace. Israel controlling its military is another matter - it will likely take major international pressure for that to happen, but we don't seem to see that happening do we! :evil: Nick81 I don't need anyone lecturing me on the situation in Lebanon and who I should praise or blame for what's happening here. I was born in an underground parking lot and most of my childhood was spent in fear. Hezbollah do NOT represent the Lebanese. They have their OWN interests, interests that go AGAINST anything that could be considered good for our country. But of course this is something thy don't give a crap about. Poor Palestinians? Yeah. Israel is to blame for everything? Maybe. But why do we have to pay the price EVERY SINGLE time. Give your nice theory to all the businesses that are going to suffer from this in Lebanon, tell this to all the people who had started dreaming about a better future and tell how taking this in consideration will make me feel better knowing that my family and loved ones are there. Pay the price? **** that! Let Syria and Iran pay the price if they're so excited about playing heros. MaaaD Kanelli what you are saying is true if you want to treat Gaza and South Lebanon as two different entities which would server perfectly in the "divide and conquer" mentality that israel is employing in the region. However if you view Hezbollah's attack as a retaliation to the ongoing offensive in Gaza then you will see things from a different prespective. Last thing Israel wants is to see Hezbollah retaliate for something that happened in Gaza .. because look at the bad situation its put in right now and is acting like an out of control raging bull. Also keep in mind Israel is still occupying part of south lebanon (albeit a small part) and Hezbollah has a legitimate reason to still be armed and fight for that part back. I do agree with you about the part of controlling the militant groups, they have to be used strategically to show israel that the other side does have power but at the same time never add to the toll of killed innocent civilians. But in the past few weeks what we have seen has been an offensive by the militant groups on Israeli military and then a brutal offensive back on innocent civilians by the Israel, showing the world its true colors. But does the world care ? kanelli
Why are Egypt and Jordan sheep for trying to use diplomacy rather than arms to look after their people and their interests? kanelli
Israelis/Jews are trying to carve out a homeland so that they won't have to face the kind of genocide that happened to them ever again. I believe that they will fight very hard for this and it makes them a formidable force. Their will is great and they cannot be underestimated. When they don't feel threatened they are likely to calm down and talk peace. The militant groups are threatening, and the international community is not doing enough to help solve this situation for both parties.
Hezbollah may sympathise with what is going on in Gaza, but all they have done with their retaliation raid and kidnap is indirectly murder innocent Lebanese. Let the Palestinians handle the Gaza issue - Hezbollah should not be dragging Lebanon into the fray by making a very unwise attack at the border. I'm sure there are bunch of men in Hezbollah with not much to do who are itching for some Iraeli ass-kicking, but look what their actions caused to the Lebanese people and the stability in the region!
Israel's recent heavy handed tactics aren't doing anything for stability in the region either - they are angering many people and are instigating retaliation attacks. If they were smart they would calm down. Everyone needs to calm down :!: MaaaD
Again Kanelli, i am looking at things from the context of Arab - Israeli conflict rather than each country on its own. And thats the only way peace can be acheived, because peace should be done between equal or almost equalt parties and i think with the military and economic strength of Israel right now, i would say the whole arab world in a united front could almost pass for equals while each country on its own is much less stronger and thus more vulnerable to give in to more compromises in peace negotiations. This is why Israel has been very keen on makeing sure they negotiate with each country seperatly and it pisses them off alot that Lebanon refuses to negotiate seperate from Syria. sharewadi
That's pathetic and I presume you're just being a troll.

Yes, and as a united front could probably force Israel to back off. But they haven't. Not now, not last year, not since the Intifada started, not during the civil war in Lebanon, and so on. So Hamas and Hezbollah claim they represent Arab interests? I don't think, despite their rhetoric, even they genuinely believe they do.
Egypt and Jordan have found a compromise with Israel. Not one that's acceptable to the likes of Hezbollah and Hamas, but there are millions of people in those two countries who aren't living in a state of war or a refugee camp.
Anyway, aren't Hezbollah Iranian/Syrian backed? They're hardly representative of Lebanon then?
It's not until both sides focus on finding a solution instead of justifying why they're right, that any progress towards peace will ever be made :( . kanelli Great post sharewadi 8) Corcovado everyday hundered and thousands of palestinians are being killed by Israel and the world stands still doing nothing about it... but when 1 israeli freaking soldier is kidnapped ...!!! the world goes crazy!!! why?? who decides that israelis are better human beings ?? who said that arabs deserve to be killed for no reason? its about time that we stand for our honor and defend our country ... NICK STOP being selfish and look at the bigger picture .... ARABS ALL OVER THE WORLD WAKE UP ..... kanelli Who said that the whole world is upset over a few Israeli soldiers being kidnapped? Also, Nick isn't being selfish, he is entitled to his opinion, even if it is different than yours. Corcovado, I know you are upset and likely lashing out because of frustration at this time. Nick81
Defend our country? The Lebanese are supposed to stand alone against Israel while all other countries are sitting with a thumb up their a$$es?
There is NO national unity in Lebanon. The politics in the country are a complete joke. The Hezbollah just took the decision to attack Israel ON THEIR OWN (or at Syria/Iran's orders of course) and WE have to pay for their decision. Ask your family if they're enjoying what they're going through in Lebanon now. Defend our country? HOW? We're just going to lose everything we did in the last few years. Think any of our Arab "brothers" will help us after this??? It's time to live in the real world.
ISRAEL IS GOING NOWHERE. IT'S NOT GOING TO VANISH INTO THIN AIR. Let's wait for what's going to happen in the next hours. They can take Beirut in a matter of hours. That's be real fun for everyone. Let's just hope that the idea of "fighting" Israel will get food on the table for everyone and ensure their safety. Nick81 Oh one more thing because that thing about "fighting" Israel just cracked me up. Who's going to fight IF we stand long enough to even have a chance to do so? Army? No comment :lol: Civilians? The days of the civil war are over. There's no unity in the country and as soon as they get weapons they'll fight each other instead of uniting against Israel. So what the hell are you talking about Corc? murphy Not following any religion per se, I do feel that living in London, we are being slowly conditioned through the media to the plight of the Israeli cause, which I think is unfair as we here don't really get to hear the side of the Muslim argument, except as the dead donkey article.. Unfortunately as Mr Blair has chosen to lie with Mr Bush, I dont see this changing any time soon. I am watching the news at the moment and the gearing is very heavily sided to the Israeli cause. I cannot really take sides but I think the level of jewish representation is overblown (I have to whisper-type as I work in a very Jewish area) Unfortunately the majority of main stram newspapers and news agencies are owned by a person who, I am told, has Jewish sympathies and once you control what people read............ It doesn't really help your frustrations I know but there are some of us in the Uk who have not been brainwashed yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! :brave: sharewadi I should have added, there was an almost united front in 2002 when the Saudis proposed a peace agreement. It wasn't anything that hadn't been said already but it was significant that it came from Saudi and was supported by all (or most) Arab nations. Of course, Hamas scuppered that one - Israel may not have accepted it anyway but Hamas made sure of it with the Netanya bombing. I can understand why some people claim that Hamas and Hezbollah are actually Israeli organisations. I know I've gone off-topic a bit since this was about Israel and Hezbollah but I'm making a general point that the resistance/terrorist groups do not represent the rest of the Arab world, since both call for the destruction of Israel. sharewadi
Some Israelis do.
Much like Hamas and Hezbollah decide that Israelis are less than human and deserve to be destroyed.
Arab nations tolerate Hamas/Hezbollah actions. Western nations tolerate Israeli actions. The Palestinians and now the Lebanese (again :( ) are caught between the two sides. The Palestinians by choice - they voted for Hamas. The Lebanese by tolerating Hezbollah presence.
Western nations will maintain that Israel has a right to exist. That won't change no matter how many Arab civilians are killed by Israel. So the conflict will continue until the West agrees that Israel should be destroyed (ha ha) or Hamas/Hezbollah agree that Israel has a right to exist (also ha ha).
So Israel will retaliate when their soldiers are killed or taken from what they consider to be Israeli territory, and the West will condemn their bombing of Beirut airport but tolerate it. kanelli More good posts guys. 8) kanelli
Yeah, there are not hundreds and thousands of Palestinians killed every day by Israelis. It is really sad that the current story has pushed the Mumbai tragedy out of the news. Very sad that so many were killed. :cry: murphy did anybody else see that France have issued Israel with an ultimatum over its' attacks? Unf. the big fat U.S of A have stuck their oar in and countered it already - what 'cha gonna do? Mind you, knowing a little about France' military history I don't know whether it is merely an empty threat......... (apologies to any Gallic readers) Nick81
where'd u see that? I know Russia and France condemned the attacks but didnt' read anything about any ultimatum MaaaD Just wanted to make a post away from the arguments and wanted to say lets keep those in Palestine, Lebanon, and Mumbai in your prayers (to whatever god it is you pray to ;) ) DaveDXB dont worry...just sing with me.... "Awimbawa awimbawa awimbawa....in the jungle..the mighty jungle...the lion sleeeeeps tonight......aweeeeeeeeeee wi wi wi wi wombambawaaaaay.... near the village....the peaceful village....the lion sleeeeps toniight..... aweeeeeeeeeee wi wi wi wombambawaaaaaayyyyy" :flower: xibit
yeah right
like that gonna happen murphy
My dear, I think you've been out in the sun too long.
:roll: xibit
i second that,
please dont blame the arab people but blame the frukin leaders, i am sure that if a war starts (and it will sooner or later) it will be the the general common muslim who will be on the front lines. MaaaD
this logic is messed up, its the people who are putting up with those leaders and they wouldnt be in power if it wasnt for the people accepting the status quo, so stop blaming the leaders.
This blame cycle has been a disease in the Middle East, where the people always blame there leaders, and the leaders are blaming israel for all the messed up shiat that happening in here. MS
Q: what is the PLO?????
A: nothin!!!!!!! MaaaD
MS i think arnie meant Fatah not PLO.
Arnie if thats what you meant, yes Hamas won the elections with a sweeping majority after the Palestinians were fed up by the corrupt, lazy, uneffective leadership of Fatah. MS great answer MaaaD. SGMD1 I hope no one is offended by this, but this conflict reminds me of the scene at the end of "The Rock" where General Hummel (Ed Harris) pulls his gun on one of his mercenary soldiers who turned against him, after which the other three soldiers in the room all pull their guns on each other. The situation didn't turn out well for anybody. MaaaD
you must be following the situation on FOX buddy. MaaaD EDIT: Deleted double post. HP Arab countries are faggots ,they have no power what so ever to stop any aggression. Israeli do whatever they want. No matter what , no one has courage to invade Pakistan like this , we know how to defend :0). We dont have oil but we are not faggot either . Arabic countries shuld build or buy the atom bomb from Pakistan and stop living like a gay life. raidah
geez...u must be in a very iluminated state of mind to write all this... A64Venice
I totally disagree....
Pakistan's Nuclear tech is for defensive purposes and is not for sale. PERIOD
If the Arab nations want to be strong, they need to unite like the Jews are. Only then will the Arabs succeed. MS HP, first of all your language is unacceptable. Islam didn't teach us to distinguish between arabs and non-arabs. Second, the arab countries have the power it takes to discipline Israel. Egypt alone has, let alone a combination of countries. It's not a matter of power, it is a matter of the leaders' choice and interest. Choice & Interest: let's make sure we stay in power and make sure our children and childrens' children and childrens' childrens' children will inherit our power!!!! HP
I am very pissed off on these arab states . So u better stay away :wink: MS If you mean leaders ..then me too man. But I repeat, arab or non-arab has little to do with the situation. Remember, Salahuddin was not an arab!! Lionheart You guys are reacting to a guy who would sell his mother and sister for the right price. Apu like his fellow Indian brothers worshipps money, he sees more dignity and honor in money than in Family. No offense Apu but from what I have observed from Indo/Pakis I have been around they are not people you want to back you up...they have no heart and corouge unlike the Afghans I have met.This is not meant to be rascist or anything insult, but its esperience with Indians and Pakistanese I have met. HP [quote="raidah"][quote="HP"]
How come ? A64Venice Well if you think about it, Lebanon doesnt really have any armed forces. All they have as leverage are Hezbollah guerellas. And how much can you expect from these guys other than firing minature rockets into Israel? Lionheart I have friend who lived in England with Indians and Pakistanese...he always tells me how 5 indians/Pakistanese would be chased by one or two black guys. How the only time Indians/Pakistanese stood for themself is when they are 20 against 2, while Afghans, Turks, Somals, Arabs were never intimidated by anyone. MS Lionheart, please stop. There is no need for this kind of attack. Don't make some people on this forum (without mentioning names) sit back and laugh at us. Lionheart
But its a the truth..Indians and their cousins Pakistanese lack corouge and heart..the their neighbors Afghans have. A64Venice
:sign5:
Thats because we use our heads. :p MS I give up. I think I'll join those who are already sitting back and laughing :lol: :lol: HP
Thats why Afghans were kicked by US :) . HP
U guys do not even have a country , now US is occupied and before osma ben laden had rented your country . U people r living like a refugee in entire world :) Lionheart
Afghans are warriors who have been fighting for 20+ years... I have allot of respect for Afghans, but unfortunately I can't say the same thing about sell outs. Lionheart
I'm not an Afghan idiot. Afghans have more balls and pride than you and country man will ever have, so leave the brave brothers alone. HP [quote="Lionheart"][quote="HP"]
hahaha worriors ? the only people who have respect for afghans are hash smokers and junkies. They are fighting like dogs and in the dogs fights , only the dogs hurt each other . :P
wait i make the topic in fight club and we can have some nice fun ?
do u have access to fight club? raidah
1. the world in this context is actually a relatively small number of economically, politically developed countries, that is the big powers. the rest of us can have an opinion, but nobody gives a shit about it.
2. politics r NEVER about telling the truth, being good or fair. we might think to know whats going on, but we dont, not one bit.
3. since i mentioned power, well holding the power has nothing to do with helping others. whenever they "help" , they actually help themselves into having more power, more influence, more money. the country that gets the "help" is always the one that fits into the political strategy of the helpers. one more reason to understand and believe that we have absolutely no idea why some decisions are made the way they are made.
4. if we wanna simplify it, these conflicts are like fights between 2 brothers. generally they r not twins, one is older, the other younger. if they want to solve it between them, the younger will win only if smarter.
now if a parent steps in, whatever desicion he will make, smbody will be unhappy about it and hold it against him.
PS: just think of all the posts in this forum, where ppl were saying americans should mind their own business instead of interfaring all the time and pose as peacemakers... HP
Thats why u sell the shells of fired missle to chiense in order to get some money :) . U r lion but without tail :P
now let me find ticket for london , have to go for one week at the end of this month as a part of summer :) [/b] Lionheart [quote="HP"][quote="Lionheart"]
Like I said they have balls you and likes of you don't...Afghans are reliable warrior on the field, they have proven themself throughout History, whether it be against British imperlist 100+ years ago when they left one British soliders standing our of 100000...against Soviet who they fought bravely. They would have kicked Americans imperlist out, but lunatics like Bin Laden has divided them into Taliban and Others.
I have higher regards for Afghans than I do for Pakistanese and their Indian cousins. HP [quote="Lionheart"][quote="HP"]
check the facts , its everyone ( e.g. US, Pak, UK) helped them against Russia. They got weapon and all training. They were stupid and everyone used them against Russia. We know that if ya give "Naswar (snuff) to Afghani ,they can fight without thinking :P .
Now US is occupied :P Lionheart [quote="HP"][quote="Lionheart"]
Who payed with their, who fought...they did with the help of brave mujahadeens from all over muslims world. Lionheart HP one thing is for sure Bin Laden is hiding in Afghanistan...because if he was hiding in Pakistane, they would have given him up soo fast for 25 million, hell they would have thrown their mothers and sisters for 25 million. :D :D HP
I am not gonna say anything about mother and sisters of ya , atleast we have respect for mothers . Lionheart
I hust thought you loved money and power more than your mother and your family... anyway I apologize if you were offended by remarks. sharewadi
Quite. Best post in this (rapidly deteriorating now) topic. HP
country is also like mother , we can protect our own mother , but US is having the mother of afghanis :P bschmidt PLEASE.... this thread was high level and objective in the beginning... and now??? There were contributions that were really worth reading on the first two pages and now this is ending like a typical Lionheart vs. Others hatred stupidity thread. :roll: arniegang
considering you have only 44 posts since last Oct - you are in no position to make comment with respect.
Instead of making comments on others, maybe you ought to contribute more, instead of being critical of others who take the time to post. ajb
He is right though .... and credit to HP for offering to take it in to the fight club so the gloves could come off!! MaaaD *sigh* .. HP and Lionhearts stupid argument is probably exactly what happens at summits where Muslim/Arab leaders meet. Personal attacks and stupid stereotypes. Thanks guys for showing us (by action) why we are in this sad state of affairs. Lionheart
MaaD I have nothing but love for my friend Apu... :lol: MaaaD one of my favorite quotes: "Those who profess to favour freedom and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without ploughing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters ... Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." - Fredrik Douglass sharewadi Good quote MaaaD.

Astounding. I thought this was a discussion about Israel and Lebanon and that s/he made a valid point.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding these rules? Some posts sounded off-topic and disrespectful to me :? . I thought that's what bschmidt (and ajb and MaaaD) referred to.

The topic title is Israel and Lebanon. How ironic if it ends up in the Fight Club. But appropriate I guess.
*sigh* is right. Corcovado Anyone watching the news???????? r u watching/??? my country is destroyed , we have no electricity , no water, no exits :cry: :cry: and why?? for two coward , cheap, f**king Israeli soldiers who were killing arabs all their lives :evil: :evil: :evil: It hurts to see humanity so rigid and that people dont give a damn about other human beings getting killed.... WAKE UP the world is turning ugly ... :evil: :evil: :evil: Corcovado :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: fayz it is sad, my heart goes out to all that are sufferring. things are going to get worse before better :( :( :( :( :( Corcovado Thank u all... special thank u to Ajb ... u really touched me with ur message :cry: :cry: Thank u *Hugs* Mr & Mrs Inquirer If you look at history you will see the hezbollah has been able to win over and over again against Israel. So lets not be to defeatist. p.s Tony is sending two war ships to help :D kanelli
How do you know that anyone is sitting back and laughing at "us", and who is "us" by the way? Just remember, assuming makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me". :roll:
Yet another thread deteriorates... mraph33
If those 2 soldiers were not kidnapped by people in your country, none of this would have happened. Despite harshness of the Israeli response, this one they didn't start. Corcovado
really?? ok my dear obviously u have no idea what so ever about whats going on :evil: :evil: israel is stealing my country and its our right to defend it whenever we want :evil: :evil: :x so go and learn b4 being stupid and not knowing anything :evil: :evil: damn u Nick81
Ok Corc, I am going to try and be as clear as I can right now.
Yes Israel is a big problem for all Arab countries. Its direct neighbours actually. The rest, as much as they bark, aren't lifting a finger to do somethng about it.
It's our right to defend it? Refer to my previous post about that.
To begin with there is NO "we" in what's happening in Lebanon. Do you think the population, the government KNEW about Hezbollah's plans before we got into this mess? No. Do you think Hezbollah's plan here is limited to "defending" our country and playing heroes? Anyone who trully believes that has obviously no clue whatsoever about what's going on in Lebanon, and Hezbollah's agenda. But I guess all is fine, our hotels are now empty, tourists have fleed. Where to? Well Syria of course. All their hotels are full now, at least for a few days. Jackpot.
Lebanon is still paying the price. Was that what you had in mind Corc when you mentioned it?
Everyone is going to profit from this, EVERYONE but us. When things calm down, Israel will STILL be here, Hezbollah will STILL be here, we will STILL have a crappy government, we will STILL be a broken dream. The only thing that will have changed is that the economy will have gone completely kaput again. But yeah, "WE" made a point right? "WE" kidnapped 2 soldiers, sacrificed a whole country without asking for anyone's opinion. We are trully a model for all other countries. Nick81 sorry for double post :P sharewadi
Good point. And there are no surprises in the actions taken by Hezbollah or Israel.
The question is, why have a crack at the Lebanese economy, and why now? Things were going well there, tourism and economic growth, reconstruction of Beirut. Yes, Israel's reaction seemed grossly out of proportion to the provocation but they have a history of doing that. So why on earth did Hezbollah give them a poke like this? They know their enemy well enough to know that Israel would retaliate in this way. Mr & Mrs Inquirer Israel's reaction seemed grossly out of proportion to the provocation. rubbish they need to know who the daddy is... Israel! Corcovado
GO TO HELL :evil: :evil: :evil: DIE mraph33
If your looking for the cause of your problems, you should be pointing your finger east and not south. The Syrians have been ruling your country for the last 20 years. But as usual, the Arab response is to blame Israel. And I'll ignore the personal insults....

Israel's "don't fcuk with us" personality has certainly taken a beating in the past few years. So I guess they are using this opportunity to show everyone that they are the "Bad Boys of the Neighborhood." ajb Corc's just ignore them their posts appear to usually be just to offend or cause trouble mraph33
If your looking for the cause of your problems, you should be pointing your finger east and not south. The Syrians have been ruling your country for the last 20 years. But as usual, the Arab response is to blame Israel. And I'll ignore the personal insults....

Israel's "don't fcuk with us" personality has certainly taken a beating in the past few years. So I guess they are using this opportunity to show everyone that they are the "Bad Boys of the Neighborhood." MaaaD What is very interesting, the Gaza front has compeltely died out ? or is it just being under reported ??? MaaaD mraph can you not start this game of "you started it". I am not going back to history of 3000 years of who started it but lets just talk about recent history. Hamas had a ceasefire with Israel, until the latter bombed that innocent family on a picnic on the beach in Gaza and then Hamas ended the ceasefire which eventually led to the capture of the soldier in Gaza and which brought over the insane reaction of the Israeli army in Gaza. That prompted Hizbollah to go ahead and capture two soldiers in the north and here we are today. So do not buy in to the Israeli media ploy of oh we are the victims and got attacked first. It is a chain of events and not isolated events. Corcovado thank u Maaad .... kanelli
If Hizbollah did not kidnap and attack the soldiers, Israel would not have bombed - correct? Yes, Israel is being heavy handed, but Hizbollah are the ones that stuck their nose in. If you play with fire you will get burned. ajb well from some of the news reports I read today to try get some idea of why it is all happening it seems that there are plenty of Lebonese prisoners who are being held in Israeli prisons for many years on end without trial .... sounds like a recipe for anger to be brought against you. MaaaD
and if Israel didn't shell the beach in Gaza last month (,,1794432,00.html) Hizbollah wouldn't have had to kindap the two soldiers. MaaaD
yes true AJB, there is around 10,000 people. Its called indefinite "Administrative Detention". No trial, no rights. Just Gutanamo style jails. Corcovado as if everyone totaly forgot about israel history , ???????????????????? check this , thats one of their crimes http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/350/355/april-war/qana/ MaaaD
No problemo ..
Corcs, i know this is a very emotional time for you. I am positive your family, friends and loved ones will be fine. I just dont think you should resort to personal attacks on people who have different opinions to yours. I would rather try my best to convey the "other side" of the story.
I am amazed how the international community at large is condoning this brutal attack, and equating the kidnap of two soldiers (who are almost certainly ALIVE) to the killing of so many innocent civilians, and damage to all this infrastrcuture. What a fucked up world we live in :? ajb thanks Corc's .... living on this side of world we are brought up to believe the Middle east is an unstable place but we are never really educated as to why ..... I guess now Im moving to Dubai I have a new found interest to learn about the region its culture and conflicts .... so info is most appreciated sharewadi
Yes. Troll posts are intended to provoke, not contribute to a discussion.
Corcovado, it's difficult to read the other posts on this page because of your long line of EEEEs. Perhaps you could delete some of them? MaaaD
sadly it has been the center of the religious (Palestine) and economical (oil) conflict of the world and will continue to be so till either one power completely dominated the area. Or the people are empowered to control there own destiny.
respect the fact that you are seeking out information before making any judgements. mraph33
I wasn't trying to simplify 3000 years in to 1 sentence. But the Israel/Lebanon border has been quiet until the Hizbollah capturing of Israeli soldiers there. Lebanon & Gaza are seperate places and Hamas & Hezbollah are seperate organizations. sharewadi
Israel has pulled back from central Gaza but say they're still continuing operations elsewhere in Gaza. They carried out an air strike on the Palestinian foreign ministry on Wed. Abbas apparently held secret talks with Israel to find a way to end the Gaza crisis. I guess it's overshadowed by events in Lebanon.

Um, France and Russia condemned the attacks (presume you're talking about the Israeli ones). Qatar put forward a UN resolution which was supported by ten security council members, calling for a halt to the Israeli attacks. Surprisingly, it was vetoed by the US :shock: . But now Bush is saying he will press Israel to stop (I thought I just read that but can't find it again).
Hezbollah claimed they captured the two soldiers to put pressure on Israel to release Palestinian prisoners. I have to scratch my head and wonder where on earth Hezbollah get the idea that such an idea would work. I don't think even Yitzak Rabin would have held back from retaliating.
That's why I wonder if there's something else going on. This picture doesn't make sense on the face of it. Corcovado Hezbollah claimed they captured the two soldiers to put pressure on Israel to release Palestinian prisoners. I have to scratch my head and wonder where on earth Hezbollah get the idea that such an idea would work. I don't think even Yitzak Rabin would have held back from retaliating.
That's why I wonder if there's something else going on. This picture doesn't make sense on the face of it.
hezbulla got that idea , because they did before and it worked , and they proved that israel only surrender to force , that why they left lebanon in 1980-and 2000 ... fayz I’m not big into all the conspiracy theories but I do agree that there is definitely something else going on and Israel controlling Hezbollah is a theory that makes more sense. If any of have been watching BBC World today the Israeli’s have flat out said that now they want a lot more than just their 2 soldiers back, they are using this as an opportunity. Having said that, I agree with previous posts Israel is a much less source of Arab problems then Arabs. If we had our own act together the Muslim world would be in a much better place today. Anyway my two fils, I don’t claim to be fully knowledgeable about the history in this region. My heart goes out to all that are sufferring sharewadi
Hezbollah was founded in 1982 so not sure how they forced Israel out in 1980. Anyway, Israel only partially withdrew in 1978 leaving behind the SLA to pester UNIFIL. And came back to hit Beirut in 1982. If Hezbollah is claiming that their use of force solves problems, it takes them a long time and costs a lot (1982 - 2000 to get Israel out, and 20,000 Arab lives lost in the meantime).
I don't really believe Hezbollah are an Israeli organisation but they do seem to be doing more for the Israelis than the Lebanese. There are far more Arab than Israeli lives lost while this conflict remains unresolved. Corcovado obviously u forgot about the lebanese resistance before hizbullah ... when beirut was underfire and israel troops were inside the capital the resistance managed to kick them out and then back at 2000 hizbula kicked them out completely so voila 8) Nick81
Nobody kicked Israel out of Beirut... You're oversimplifying everything...
I am tired of explaining everything and besides this isn't the purpose of the topic. You can always check wiki or other good sources for FACTS about the Lebanese war, the Israeli invasion etc...
P.S: Just out of curiosity, what is this "resistance" in Beirut you speak of? Corcovado lebanese resistance... communists.... Nick Remember U R LEBANESE Nick81
Yes I am. And proud to be one. Unfortunately patriotism is something that has been quite nonexistent in our country for a long long time. We are too busy joining parties, diving ourselves and fighting in the name of a clown.
Everyone has lost sight of the big picture, of our children's future. This is what I keep in mind when I watch the news now. This is what I see when I see the tourists fleeing, when I see Israel bombarding our cities, and the bearded fools barking in front of cameras that the rest of the country better side with them and not make any comments favorable to Israel.
I hope thar for once, there will a good conclusion, a justification for what happened. Let's hope we can force Hezbollah to disarm and start actually controlling South Lebanon and removing the influence of those Syria/Iran sell-outs. sniper420
buddy wiki is written by some biased guy........isreal did face some casualities and secondly were fed up of controlling a land which gave em no use...(as resources) so they thought let's leave..........BTW this shows how UN is effective MS
Are you sick? Did anybody mention you or step on your foot? And "Us" refers the people who where part of the discussion at that point in time. The discussion that turned out to be useless and childish and not worth participating in.
Did this calm you down? sharewadi
Yes, it's the Lebanese people who are coming off worst out of this particular episode. But if Hezbollah do get thrown out, it then removes any excuse Israel claims to have for interfering in South Lebanon. Lionheart The cowered Saudis as usual are condenming the actions of brave Hizaballoha who are the only Arabs with balls. This Saudi cowereds can't standup to US and Isreal, but they will do anything possible to send their lunatics to poor muslim countries like Afghanistan,Somali, Pakistane, Indonesia, Iraq, etc to create problems for poor people. They send their lunatics to Europe and Us to brainwash muslim youths to hate the country that welcomed them...but when it comes to clean their own backyard from corruption and standing up American influence in holy land they ignored coweredly. Know these bastereds have the nerve to condenm Hizaballoh and Hamas for standing for their people against naked aggression of Isreal.
HP Lion heart u r quite emotional kid . where are u from ? if u have any country? Lionheart
Nick81 Lionheart, jacka$$es like you have no business talking politics And Sniper, forget Wiki, check ANY other GOOD source then. I LIVED The war, I researched every bit of it that I can't remember because I was a kid at the time so trust me, I know what I am talking about. It destroyed my country, corrupted and divided my fellow countrymen and we just can't stop paying the price. Again, you want to question my attitude here, try to actually LEARN what really happened in the war, the role of each group/party in it and the role of big evil Israel. You will realize then, that it's not a matter of pointing at people saying who's on the good side and who's on the bad side. It's not that easy. This isn't Star Wars. Nick81
GOLD
This is even more hilarious than the "mistress" post. "THEIR" people. Lionheart
Nick..I always figured you to be jackass...But anyway Hizaballoh no matter how much you try to demonize them they liberated Lebenon from the Isreal occuppation back in 80's. Lionheart
Hamas was voted in by the people, while Hizaballoh has 23 elected officials representing them in the Lebanese parliament. The Hizaballoh like hamas has better welfare system than other government representative. Again like Hamas they are less corrupt than other elected officials. Nick81
Last time I checked the calendar it was 2006 Einstein! Hezbollah's glory days are over, and have been so for a loooong time. You want to criticize KSA? Well take a good look at it and the Saudis. Then take a look at the Lebanese, paying the FEKIN price every FEKIN day because of a bunch of bearded jacka$$ses standing in front of Israel for "THEIR" people. Nick81
Well for once you posted something that makes actually sense. But we only gave them officials representing them to try and ge them to drop their weapons and get into the system. What do we get in return? They get us in war with Israel WITHOUT consulting the government. So please if you are trying to make a point, I fail to see it. Lionheart
Isreal is holding over 1000 Hizabollah and Hamas prisoners without putting them on trial, but they have the nerves to go to war over two of their soliders who were captured :roll: . Isreal is using this situation to further theirs and US agenda to get Iran and Syria involved in this conflict. Since the nuclear weapon excuse by US has failed, the American administration is using Isreal to push buttons to get Iran/Syria involved in conflict with Isreal. sharewadi
And eight that were killed. And 100 rockets fired by Hizbullah into Israel. Anyway, why are you so surprised? It sounds like you know what Israel is like. naruto
nick im sorry to say this , but i think u only think about money and economey..
ps:I think HEZBULLA were fighting ISREAL not for iran or syria for the freedom of lebanon ,still i think that was not the right time to kidnap 2 isreal soldiers .
and about the arab world NO COMMENT :( Lionheart
for 8 soliders killed and 2 abducted, Isreal goes out and kills 60 Lebanese civilians, wiping out a 2 whole families. There is no justification for what Isreal is doing right know to Lebenon and Gaza and they have been doing this for 60 years right, act as if they are above any international law. Imagine if IRan did this, if they invaded Iraq or Afghanistan because their soliders were abducted by Afghans or Iraqis...the Americans would not congrulate them the same they congrulate Isreal for bombing the shit out of weaker nation...but instead they would push for case to invade Iran because they threat to their nieghbors. But Isreal no matter many of its neighbors it kills or invades...they are immune for any guilt. When Isreal kills 60 civilians with their air raids they are excused as being provoked...but when Hizabollah or hamas retaliates against isreal aggression they are seen as terrorist :roll:.
I'm not suprised at Isreal's reaction, because they have always reacted like this. I'm suprised at the lack of coweredness shown by Arab leaders as usual and the usual double standard shown by American administration...condenming terrorism by Hizabollah and Hamas...okeying the terrorism by Isreal. I'm suprised that Western media who blasted Zidane for retaliating violently by headbutting someone who insulted him is know making excuse for Isrealis violent reaction to an incident that could be solved by negotiating..instead chose war that could lead to what I'm afraid will be World war 3. :roll: Mr & Mrs Inquirer your wrong. ISREAL is doing an excellent job and the free/normal world will praise them when they have finished HP
ur country exist in deep shit :P Lionheart
The only thing Isreal is doing is digging its own grave, in the same manner 1000 years ago Crusaders digged their own grave. Lionheart
HP get your head out of your ass... MaaaD
Mass exodus after WWII when Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire. A Blafour declaration years before had promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine. And then a series of wars which lead to the state of Israel being created.
and more specifically:
sharewadi
Your arguments would have more validity if
1. You stuck to the topic (Zidane is a different story).
2. Were consistent - you're saying Zidane's overreaction is acceptable but Israel's is not?
3. Made sense (Iran/Afghan comparison sounds like nonsense. You say you're surprised at "lack of coweredness" of other Arab countries - it doesn't sound like you are).
4. Did not make inaccurate generalisations...
America did not congratulate Israel.
Israel is not immune from guilt - Israel has at times punished their own soldiers for killing civilians (not that I expect it will happen with these events).
You're still focused on blaming Israel. For hundreds of years both sides have been claiming it's the other side's fault and they started it. When will the two sides ever focus on trying to find a workable solution? Hizbullah's solution involves destroying Israel and you're supporting that? It's hardly a realistic proposition, irrespective of the rightness or wrongness of it.
The Lebanese were focused on trying to get their country to work after years of turmoil, and this episode will be a major setback for them. That's why I feel so sad for them.
Seems to me like somebody is using Hizbullah to prevent Lebanon from moving forward, and perhaps try and stir up a regional conflict. mraph33 Bravo sharewadi! Chocoholic The whole thing is totally messed up! Israel have totally overeacted to the situation. However Hezbollah are certainly not innocent in this, many of the news reports say that they've counted on Israel's overaction to deliberately destroy Lebanon, these people are a total menace as well. Also what the hect are the Lebanese doing to defend themselves? Nothing, as per usual! And what are their Arab brothers doing to help them? Nothing, as per usual! For god's sake why can't these guys get it together , it's pathetic! MaaaD Israel's military says four servicemen are missing after one of its vessels off the Lebanese coast was struck by a missile fired by Hezbollah militants.
from: Chocoholic And what about the prisoners that Israel is holding? The whole thing is whack, and Lebanon is bearing the brunt, awful - I love that place. Chocoholic And what about the prisoners that Israel is holding? The whole thing is whack, and Lebanon is bearing the brunt, awful - I love that place. MaaaD just some quick points for those of you who want to know more about the history of the conflict... 1. Israel has occupied a number of Arab territories since 1967, pursuing an illegal colonial project thereon comprising, but not limited to, expropriating land, building settlements, and transferring its civilian population. These lands include the Palestinian West Bank, the Syrian Golan Heights, and the Lebanese Shebaa Farms. 2. Israel occupied Lebanon for 22 years (excluding the occupation of Shebaa Farms, which continues to this day). During this period, Israel massacred civilian populations, such as the 1996 bombardment of the United Nations compound in Qana; targetted Lebanon's infrastructure, including power plants and highways; and raised a proxy army, the South Lebanese Army, helping it administer the notorious Khiam prison where hundreds of Lebanese were tortured and imprisoned for years without charge. 3. During its occupation of Lebanon, Israel detained hundreds of Lebanese, often times by crossing over the border and abducting them. To this day, Israel continues to detain a number of Lebanese. 4. Israel regularly invades Lebanon by flying over its airspace, coupled with sonic boom attacks over civilian populations. 5. Though Israel departed from southern Lebanon in 2000, they left over 130,000 land mines which have killed and injured countless children. Israel refuses to disclose the location of these mines. 6. Israel hosts one of Lebanon's most wanted fugitives, the ceritified war criminal Antoine Lahad. Lahad led Israel's proxy army in southern Lebanon, the South Lebanese Army. Lahad currently resides in Tel Aviv, where he runs a restaurant and complains of poor treatment by Israel. 7. The Lebanese government has done nothing of substance to secure the release of Lebanese prisoners, the liberation of Shebaa Farms, a halt to the Israeli Air Force's frequent incursions, and a map of Israel's land mines. 8. Lebanese militias have succeeded in the past, most recently in 2004, to obtain the release of Lebanese nationals in Israeli custody through prisoner exchanges. ajb Thanks for that .... what I dont understand yet is how did the Israeli's get there? Are they actually people from the region or did they all just move in one day put up some borders and say welcome to Israel? Chocoholic Go read the Bible and look into WW2 history. MaaaD Ya Ven ... its 2006 .. get with the program ..
Capturing 3 soldiers is terrorism
Bombing civilians and associated infrastructure is self defense mraph33
Someone was sleeping in his history classes A64Venice What is really sad is how the media, especially CNN projects Israel as defending itself. Even Bush goes on says Israel has the right to defend herself. What about Lebanon and Palestine. Don’t they have the right to defend? No, that’s terrorism?
How long can you fool people by saying this?
Its Hezbullah and Hamas that are defending themselves with whatever leverage they have left. I consider them as common people defending their freedom from Israeli aggression. They don’t have tanks, warships and planes, but they have courage and will!
You call them terrorists; I call it rebellion for freedom.
Peace be upon the 64 innocent killed in Lebanon mraph33 A few points:

Don't mix the West Bank & Lebanon. Different places - different story

Let's not forget that from 1976-2005 the country was occupied by Syria - who also ignored UN resolutions to leave.

Nothing justifies that, but it is still only a fraction of the number that is being held in Syrian prisions.

According to the UN, there are 150,000 mines in Lebanon, as a result of the long civil war as well as the foreign occupations. Israel actually did supply UNIFIL maps, but the Lebanese govt. disputes the accuracy. MaaaD
It was not "occupied" the Syrian forces were there as part of Al Tayif agreement to bring stability to Lebanon after the civil war. Anyway i dont see how this is relevant to anything.

Again two wrongs dont make a right, and i dont see the relevance of bringing this up.

Actually they were forced to give in mine maps for exchange for the israeli buisnessman / spy that was captured by hizbollah a few years ago. mraph33
Yes they were invited, but then they refused to leave.

The fact explains itself.

Initially you said they didn't provide maps....I'm glad you agree that that your initial post was incorrect sharewadi Ah, we have more rational discussion in this topic again. Thanks Maaad and mraph33. It makes for much more useful reading now. <edit> In response to someone complaining about wikipedia, I think there's a great deal of time and effort from wikipedia authors that goes into trying to accurately present information from a neutral point of view. This discussion about the current conflict is a good example... :2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis </edit> sharewadi message deleted Chocoholic Don't feed the troll! mraph33
Its kind of hard to figure out what's going on in those talk pages. Lionheart
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican on Friday strongly deplored Israel's strikes on Lebanon, saying they were "an attack" on a sovereign and free nation.
Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano said Pope Benedict and his aides were very worried that the developments in the Middle East risked degenerating into "a conflict with international repercussions."
"In particular, the Holy See deplores right now the attack on Lebanon, a free and sovereign nation, and assures its closeness to these people who already have suffered so much to defend their independence," he told Vatican Radio.
Israel struck Beirut airport again on Friday and bombed Lebanese roads, power supplies and communication networks in a widening campaign after Hizbollah guerrillas seized two Israeli soldiers and killed eight.
Sodano said the Vatican condemned both "terroristic attacks" and military reprisals.
Hizbollah, which wants to trade its captives for prisoners held in Israel, has showered rockets across the frontier in its fiercest bombardment since 1996 when Israel launched a 17-day blitz against southern Lebanon and Hizbollah.
But Sodano reserved his harshest words for Israel.
"The right of defence on the part of a state does not exempt it from its responsibility to respect international law, particularly regarding the safeguarding of civilian populations," he said. Lionheart Analysis from Noam Chomsky, professor of linguistics and philosophy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He is author of dozens of books, including his latest "Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy." In May he traveled to Beirut where he met, among others, Hezbollah leader Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah. Chomsky is speaking from Massachusetts.
Mouin Rabbani, senior Middle East analyst with the International Crisis Group and a contributing editor of Middle East report, speaking from Jerusalem.
BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 14 — The firebrand Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr said on today that Iraqis would not “sit by with folded hands” while Israel struck at Lebanon, signaling a possible increase in attacks from his mercurial militia, the Mahdi Army.
Mr. Sadr made it clear in a written statement that he considered the United States culpable in the conflict unfolding in Lebanon, since America is the largest foreign ally of Israel. Mr. Sadr’s incitement, which was repeated at his mosques across Iraq during Friday prayers, could ignite further attacks against American troops here. Tensions have been rising in recent weeks between the American military and the Mahdi Army, with American forces carrying out raids against Mahdi hideouts and arresting senior leaders.
American commanders have strongly denounced militias in recent days and have pledged to try to stop the role of death squads in the spiraling cycles of sectarian violence. Many Sunni Arabs blame the Sadr militia for abductions and execution-style killings, including an incident on July 9 in which militiamen seized as many as dozens of Sunni Arabs from homes and cars in the Jihad neighborhood and shot them in the head.
In 2004, Mr. Sadr led two rebellions against the Americans, which resulted in negotiations that ultimately allowed him to win enormous power in the new government through elections.
“Eyes are shedding tears and the heart feels pain and sadness for our people in Lebanon due to the bombing, terror and clear aggression that the Zionist enemy conducts and that is shielded by a number of countries, including the United States,” Mr. Sadr said in a written statement released by his office.
“Let be known to everybody that we in Iraq will not sit by with folded hands before the creep of Zionism,” he said. “It will enslave us if we keep silent.”
The fury was echoed in the Friday mosque sermon given by a Sadr cleric, Sheik Asad al-Nasri, to thousands of worshippers from the southern holy cities of Kufa and Najaf.
“We address all the arrogant powers of the world, including the United States and Israel, and tell them to realize the true reality and take lessons from history that show that all world powers, no matter how strong they are, prove to be failures and will definitely vanish,” the sheik said.
Since 2004, Mr. Sadr has transformed his organization into one similar to Hezbollah, the militant Shiite faction in Lebanon. Sadr followers are now composed of politicians working in Parliament and important ministries, as well as thousands of impoverished young men ready at a moment’s notice to take to the streets with Kalashnikovs. Mr. Sadr emerged from the December 2005 elections with at least 30 of 275 parliamentary seats, making his legislative bloc the equal of any political party in Iraq.
Mr. Sadr’s connections to Lebanon are manifold. Iran backs both the Sadr militia and Hezbollah. Some military officials in Iraq have said Shiite militiamen here may have gotten bomb-making technology from Iran through Hezbollah.
Some analysts of the Middle East say that if Iran is inflamed by the Israeli attack on Hezbollah, it could stir up trouble for the Americans here by prodding the Mahdi Army. Iran could be motivated to do the same if pressure grows from America and European nations over the Iranian nuclear program.
A relative of Mr. Sadr’s, Musa al-Sadr, was a prominent cleric in Lebanon before disappearing on a trip to Libya in 1978.
Many Sunni Arabs in Baghdad and other mixed areas of Iraq blame the young Mr. Sadr’s militiamen for prolifically carrying out torture and murder. Some Sunnis have described checkpoints where Sunnis are snatched by Sadr followers. Others say the militiamen fire mortars regularly at Sunni neighborhoods.
Sadr officials say there are rogue elements of the Mahdi Army that they do not control.
With the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq rising, “the Shiite leader and his movement have become more central than ever,” according to a report on Mr. Sadr that was released by the International Crisis Group this week. “Seen by many as a spoiler, his political positioning and legitimacy in the eyes of a restless, disenfranchised population have made Muqtada a key to Iraq’s stability, and he must be treated as such.”
Anthony Cordesman, a military analyst in the Washington area, said today in a report that Hezbollah, Mr. Sadr and other radical groups or figures in the region can “broaden the conflict at minimal risk, attacking both the U.S. and Israel indirectly with considerable safety.”
Another armed group here, the Islamic Resistance Movement in Iraq, also issued a statement today supporting Lebanese resistance against Israel and calling for more attacks in Iraq to support “our jihad brothers in Palestine and Lebanon,” according to the SITE Institute, which tracks jihadist Internet messages.
Lionheart
Thousands of protesters across the Arab world have taken to the streets to condemn Israeli offensives in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip.
Nearly 5,000 people gathered near Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, chanting anti-Israel slogans and carrying banners that read "No to Israel" and "Hey Arab leaders, you should be united."
Hosni Mubarak, the Egyptian president, met Jordan's King Abdullah II nearby to discuss the situation.
They issued a joint statement demanding "an immediate halt on attacking civilians and vital infrastructure," saying such attacks breached international humanitarian conventions, and called for restraint on all sides.
Egypt and Jordan are the only countries in the region to have signed peace treaties with Israel.
In Amman, more than 2,000 demonstrators gathered at a mosque after Friday prayers, shouting "Zionists get out, get out!" and "Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan are one people!"
Flagrant defiance
Abdul-Hadi Majali, the speaker of Jordan's lower house of parliament, called on the international community to oppose Israel's actions, calling them a "flagrant defiance" of international law, the official Petra news agency reported.
Thousands of Iraqis demonstrated in Baghdad praising Hezbollah's leader and denouncing Israel and the US over the attacks. Some protesters said they were ready to fight the Israelis.
Nouri al-Maliki, the Iraqi president condemned the attacks and warned that they could lead to "an escalation of violence in the region." The influential Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars issued a statement urging the international community not to be silent.
In Kuwait, hundreds rallied in front of the seaside parliament, shouting "Death to Israel!" and "Death to America!" Some waved posters of Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, whose headquarters were bombed on Friday by Israeli planes.
"Arab countries can do nothing but condemn," Kuwaiti lawmaker Musallam al-Barrak said.
Hamas rally
In Gaza, thousands of protesters marched at a Hamas-organised rally waving Palestinian and Lebanese flags.
"We in Hamas came here to tell our people in Lebanon that your blood is our blood, your enemy is ours and your aim is ours," one demonstrator shouted through loudspeakers.
Omar al-Bashir, the Sudanese president, said his country stands with the "Palestinian mujahedeen" and "backs the steadfastness of the Lebanese resistance," Sudan's official news agency reported.
Amr Moussa, the Arab League secretary-general, issued a statement calling on Israel to halt its military operations, and asking the UN security council to intervene. He met UN officials in Cairo ahead of an emergency summit of Arab foreign ministers on Saturday. Lionheart
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - At least 12 Lebanese villagers, including women and children, were killed Saturday in what appeared to be an Israeli airstrike on a convoy of vehicles fleeing a village near the border with Israel in southern Lebanon, a witness said.
The convoy was leaving the border village of Marwaheen, when it was attacked. An Associated Press photographer said he counted 12 bodies in two cars that were destroyed by the attack shortly after midday.
Several hours earlier, Israeli forces across the border told villagers by loudspeaker to leave the area or else the village would be destroyed. They did not give a reason for the ultimatum.
The convoy of several vehicles was hit near the border fence less than half a mile from the village.
The residents said they had first gone to a U.N. peacekeepers position manned by Ghanian forces to take refuge but they were turned down. There was no immediate confirmation from U.N. peacekeepers, who have a force in southern Lebanon. Lionheart
An Israeli airstrike hit a Lebanese minibus between the cities of Shamaa and Bayada Saturday killing at least 15 civilians, Lebanese security officials said.
The bus traveling along a coastal road was transporting 20 civilians, CNN reported.
Israel had stepped up airstrikes against Lebanon, pushing north and targeting bridges and fuel storage tanks, military officials said.
The warplanes also cut off communication near Syria by destroying an area where radio and satellite TV antennas were located.
Hezbollah militants kept up their attacks from southern Lebanon, firing Katyusha rockets into northern Israel, CNN reported. One of the rockets hit a well in the city of Tiberias about 22 miles south of the border with Lebanon.
As the violence escalated, the Israeli military recovered the body of one of four sailors reported missing after a naval vessel was hit by Hezbollah fire off the coast of Lebanon, Israeli television reported Saturday.
Other Israeli military officials said two bodies had been found.
Israel launched its offensive after Hezbollah guerrillas crossed the Israel-Lebanon border Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers Corcovado i am watching my city burning now, the smoke is everywhere.. i can hear children crying on the streets , homeless .no one is safe now .. the world is so dark now..my heart is broken now... i wish i was there now...i have to stop crying now ... i cant stop crying ..beirut is burning and my future is gone....................... A64Venice *SIGHS* *SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS**SIGHS* arniegang Corcs Theres nothing me or anyone can say to make you feel better at this sad time for you, but i and others are thinking of you murphy did you see this?
A64Venice I am amazed to see how Lebanon has survived as a country. I mean dont they have any milatary, navy or airforce to defend their cities? Yeah we know about Hezbullah rockets, but lets be honest, those like firecrackers. No offense. murphy Hezbollah have rocket capacity enough to do serious damage to both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. bschmidt I still condemn the Israeli attacks in Lebanon, I am very sad and angry about this. Anyhow, some things are getting clearer at this time. The missile, that was used by Hizbollah to attack this Israeli warship was an iranian C802 anti-ship missile. Hizbollah does not own such high-tech weapons, only China and Iran do. Quite interesting I think, it makes it somehow clearer who is feeding the fire. In my opinion this is a crime about equal as evil as the attacks on Lebanon. A64Venice
Well I hope so. Israelies deserve the same kind of treatment. Mr & Mrs Inquirer Foreign ministers of 18 Arab countries held an emergency summit in Cairo Saturday over Israel's expanding assault on Lebanon, but squabbles over the legitimacy of Hizbullah's attacks on Israel — including the capture of two Israeli soldiers that sparked the four-day battle — appeared likely to keep participants from reaching a consensus, delegates said. Corcovado
thank u all for ur support , it means the world to me :angel11: Nick81 Edited, erased whatever. No point whatsoever in arguing anymore... Zouk is next Corc. They're going to reduce us to even worse than we were at the end of the civil war. This is how we are paying the price. The only positive thing that could come out of this, THE ONLY THING, is the eradication of Hezbollah. Lionheart Arab leaders condemn Israeli attacks, but fail to support Hezbollah
By Hannah Allam and Miret el Naggar
McClatchy Newspapers
CAIRO, Egypt - Arab leaders meeting here Saturday condemned Israel's bombing campaign in Lebanon as the death knell for any hope of negotiating peace between Israel and the Palestinians. But they stopped short of supporting the militant Lebanese group Hezbollah, which triggered the latest round of violence by kidnapping two Israeli soldiers last week.
Arab governments are hamstrung over what to tell their citizens, who are incensed by four days of Israeli land, sea and air attacks on a fellow Arab nation that now threaten to engulf the entire region.
Responding too timidly could erode the Arab governments' legitimacy, but reacting more boldly could be interpreted as tacit approval of Hezbollah, which has ties to the Islamist groups that threaten their own autocratic regimes, monarchies and start-up democracies.
"They condemn Israel, but at the same time they have their own problems with the Islamist movements and don't support them," said Diaa Rashwan, an expert on militant Islam at the Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies in Cairo. "They're confused."
The Bush administration has hailed elections in Iraq, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories as the harbingers of a democratic tide in the Middle East. But Sunni and Shiite Muslim Islamist parties have been the biggest winners in all three places, emerging as the most credible alternative to the region's U.S.-backed regimes, which are widely considered corrupt, stagnant and ineffectual.
Hezbollah now has members in the Lebanese cabinet as well as the parliament; Hamas won control of the Palestinian government in January; and the powerful Muslim Brotherhood is the strongest opposition force in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and several other predominantly Sunni nations. In Iraq, Shiite political parties with ties to Iran's Islamic Republic emerged strongest from parliamentary elections last December.
Israel's incursion into Lebanon has highlighted the gap between Arab government policies and public sentiment. While state-backed newspapers in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt criticized Hezbollah's operation as a "miscalculation," independent and opposition papers across the region reflected support for militants and printed graphic photos of the civilian victims of Israel's air strikes.
Similar divisions surfaced during the talks Saturday at the Arab League, said several representatives who took part in the meeting but asked not to be quoted by name because the discussions are supposed to remain confidential.
They said officials split into three camps over how to address the crisis. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Algeria showed strong support for Hezbollah. American-allied nations such as Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and the Persian Gulf states, meanwhile, consider the group responsible for much of the violence. Countries such as Morocco, Sudan, Libya and Oman didn't blame Hezbollah, but urged it to work more closely with the Lebanese government.
In an acknowledgment of the wide support for militant Islamists, Qatar's foreign minister told his counterparts that it was their duty to find a response consistent with Arab public opinion, several participants said.
In Syria, pro-Hezbollah rallies erupted in Palestinian refugee camps, and cars carrying the group's yellow-and-green flags paraded through the streets of a Shiite suburb outside Damascus, the capital.
"We are with Hezbollah - we're just waiting for the word," said Sadeq Mashhadiyeh, 41, a sidewalk vendor in Damascus who lived in Lebanon until Syrian forces withdrew from the country last year. "In Iraq, they did not allow us to fight. There, they will welcome us."
Other Syrians said they were confident that Israel wouldn't attack their country because Iran's hard-line leadership has pledged to defend Syria against any Israeli attack, a move almost certain to plunge the region into chaos.
"Nothing will happen here because Iran warned them that if they come close to Syria, they will defend us," said Sami Bazarto, a 29-year-old Syrian barber.
Kazem Jalali, a powerful member of the Iranian legislature's national security and foreign policy committee, told McClatchy newspapers that Hezbollah, which is supported largely by Iran, had made "missteps" but charged that Israel had been waiting for any small transgression to punish Palestinians and Lebanese for voting militants into office.
"The resistance movement and the new intifada (uprising) was like a slap to Israel's face," Jalali said. "They've been looking for a perfect moment to take revenge . . . they want to totally ignore the elections."
McClatchy Newspapers special correspondents Rhonda Romani in Damascus, Syria and Salome Abtahi in Tehran, Iran contributed to this report. Lionheart Audio
"Israel has reached the end of the road.....Israel has lost the ability to terrify the people of the region."
MaaaD Nick81 .. shit is hitting the fan regardless .. as a true patriot to your country i would think you would be in solidarity together to protect the country against this agression rather than jump and use this to create internal tensions. Its "open war" right now, and no time to blame hezbollah .. now its time to defend lebanon .... If you look at history you will see the hezbollah has been able to win over and over again against Israel. So lets not be defeatist. Corcovado Please sign the petition and vote on cnn Corcovado
we will see who will laugh at the end ... :D :D Concord
Good idea vote. Mr & Mrs Inquirer So now Hamas and Hezbollah are again feeling Israel's muscles, to see if we have mellowed. It has long been the idea of Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, that Israel has become weak, like a cobweb that can be easily torn apart, or better, destroyed from within. These people, who mistake democratic life for weakness, just can't grasp the fact that a democracy, if attacked, will always have the upper hand because free and proud people who fight in self defense will not be defeated. :twisted: MaaaD Israel's reaction to the current situation are indeed a sign of weakness rather than strength. I dont see in anyway how this agression is going to help return the soldiers home. Oh wait, this isnt about the soldiers anymore. mraph33 At this point, I'm not sure what its about either. Unfortunately though the consequence is the civilians on both sides are the ones bearing the brunt of it all. raidah in 89, during the time of romanian revolution, a group of ppl showed up as if from the nowhere, started creating panic and talked about a state of emergency due to possible foreign threat. they profited of the fact that the whole country was in a big mess and ppl blinded by the euphoria that communism was over, and created "the front of national salvation". they took advantage of the confusion in the country and posed as saviors, when actually they were taking over the power. the situation in lebanon is different from the romanian in more ways that i would care to count. but in some aspects i see similarities. Hezbollah brought the country in a situation that at this point needs to be saved and defended from Israel. whether is being supported by Iran or/and Syria, or Hezbollah is working on its own, the fact remains, that if they manage to "save" Lebanon from Israel, the will automatically take over the control of the country, thanx to all the ppl who will support them. and if this theory has any truth in it, it will take years for ppl to realize how they have been fooled and manipulated. raidah sorry for double post SGMD1 WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? MaaaD
Your theory has no truth since its based on facts that are incorrect. Hezbollah did not bring the country to a "situation that at this point needs to be saved and defended from Israel" .. since 1982 Lebanon has needed to saved and defended from Israel. Although Israel did withdraw in 2000 it was not complete The Shebaa Valleys are still under occupation. So lets not start conspiracy theories about Hezbollah trying to dominate Lebanon, because they dont need any of this to do that.. they are the strongest power in Lebanon and if interested in dominating lebanon they could have staged a "Islamic" revolution or what not. Chocoholic
I second that!
Also it's sad that it's always the innocent by-standers that come off worse and bear the brunt of conflict. MaaaD
did you guys see the pictures of the dead children (in lebanon) in today's gulf news. breaks my heart. raidah Maaad, i did not say this conflict/war started a few days ago. but i do think that whatever the reasons behind the attacks (on both sides for that matter), they have very little to do with the well-being of the population. surely this is just an opinion that has equal chances to be erroneous since im not from there, nor directly affected in any way, which may mean lack of sufficient information on my part. or it can have some truth, because being away, allows me to be objective. the thing is, no matter who has more rights, more reasons, more logical explanations, people are loosing their lives, their houses, their economies on both sides. Nick81
As a true patriot I want Nasrallah's head on a pike and the end of Hezbollah. I want the end of clowns leading parties, dividing us LEBANESE. I want the end of religion being a part of politics.
And stop turning this into an epic battle. Hezbollah are NOTHING to be proud of. They're a disease, a plague. EVERYONE knows what Israel is capable of, what those barbarians are ready to do. MaaaD
I guess you share a common enemy with Israel, are you ready to join hands with them against Nasarallah and his men ?

You have everyright to want that, and a very sensible thing to ask for. But right now is not time to discuss that. Now is time for national solidarity against an external occupying force.

A chunk of your country would have been still under occupation if it wasnt for hezbollah, show a bit of gratitude. A64Venice
You will see that in Gulf news, but not on CNN or BBC. Therefore, the rest of the world thinks Israel is the only one suffering not Lebanon or Palestine. Nick81 Ok this is my last post here because having my patriotism and my love for Lebanon questioned after each one of my posts is getting irritating. You're telling ME to forget about political clowns and think about national unity? There has NEVER been a national unity in Lebanon. NEVER. People are too busy bathing in colors: orange, green, yellow etc... Students are too busy fighting in universities to "defend" the name of their beloved clowns. Lebanon has been turned into a rotten apple. It's all about who's gonna get more power than the other. And Hezbollah are HAS BEEN. We DON'T need them anymore. Like it or not they have NO REASON whatsoever to exist in Lebanon. If we hadn't been exploited by Syria for so long, if we had a REAL government who would've sent the army to the South, Hezbollah would had NEVER have the popularity they have today. NEVER. But what's done is done and no need to have any regrets. They FEKED us, they FEKED my country, OUR country and I am supposed to be grateful? BECAUSE of what they did years ago? FEK that. MaaaD Nick, i am not questioning your patriotism if you are referring to me. You just have a differnet point of view which is very healthy to the discussion (and representative of what a sizable chunk of the lebanese population is thinking right now) and i am just picking your mind. I really hope you continue to post on this topic rather than just accept defeat (which is what you want to do with Israel too haha :P) No hard feelings okay ? Nick81
Hey man, of course not... You're one of the persons I enjoy "communicating" with on the forums and who I hope to meet someday. But I am just having some hard times these days with my family back in Lebanon and me being "stuck" here. And yeah, I have a different opinion regarding Hezbollah but you made it sound as if I was SUPPOSED to show respect for them whatever happens, whatever the consequences are.
Do you know where our "beloved" president is right now? He's in Fakra, one of the most "chic" mountain resorts in Lebanon, prolly sunbathing next to a swimming pool as usual. This is what we deal with every single day in Lebanon. This is why Hezbollah got all their influence in Lebanon (south Lebanon especially where they've been known to pay for schools, university studies for the youth etc...) Sure you could look at them as saviors, but in my book, it's always been brainwashing a whole population and part of an agenda. MaaaD I pray for you, your family and all the other families Nick. Ping me if you want to discuss this more over lunch or a drink. Nick81
Only if we DON'T talk about this situation :P I really need to take my mind off this... Would be nice for anyone to join us too :wink: Just nice lunch/night out to chill... We don't need to organize something like that do we? :lol:
P.S: Corc I am especially expecting an answer from you :wink: HP
Nick ,
i thought u were my brother but you were inviting my wife over dinner or night out :roll: Nick81
hey my wife's Raidah but she's not here right now :P I've been looking forward to meeting Corc because she's Lebanese and she seems like someone who I could spend some good times with (the 1st person to comment this will get a vicious spanking!! Good times = laughs, nice discussions etc...) raidah hey my wife's Raidah but she's not here right now :P I've been looking forward to meeting Corc because she's Lebanese and she seems like someone who I could spend some good times with (the 1st person to comment this will get a vicious spanking!! Good times = laughs, nice discussions etc...)
am i? hmmm...cant remember...and...did we do it? :oops: Nick81
am i? hmmm...cant remember...and...did we do it? :oops:
According to HP's daddy we cyber all the time. So it all depends on the way you see things :P HP I know you guys , first discussion and then coming little bit closer and end ....... :shock: Please meet my pretty penny (made in Pakistan ) or xyz and discuss with them :roll: . This is the first time , i managed any arabic girl for marriage . :oops: Do ya want me to do honour killing? :) Corcovado maad and Nick and everyone i think we should do it "go out for dinner or somthin" ... i would like to meet u too Nick ...so yalla arrange somethin and i am in... :) mraph33
Actually CNN doesn't show the dead Israeli civilians either. MaaaD I just got this as an sms if someone can confirm this info would be great:
Corcovado i got it too... i think u should send it to red cross better ... cos u cant be sure about this account XRW-147 I've spoken to the Lebanese Embassy and they have confirmed they have set up the above mentioned relief fund but the lady was not able to confirm the account number. As soon as she calls back I will revert. Corcovado
thank u so much waiting for ur info :P MaaaD
Okay confirmed, i called the red crescent and they said thats the account number. Also you can use :
Dubai Islamic Bank - Account # 015204414302 Lionheart
Maad Is it okey for me to show pictures of Isreali terrorism against civilians in Lebanon that Bush approves? I ask for your permission and the Lebanese posters in this thread. MaaaD LH someone already did : Lionheart "The difference between the people of Israel and the nations of the world is an essential one. The Jew by his source and in his very essence is entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence is completely evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but rather of two completely different species."
- Rabbi Saadya Grama Corcovado
racist israelies :evil: :evil: :evil: show the pics let the world know Lionheart
Ya those were the pictures. Its sad that people who complained about Hitlers brutality have conflicted others mainly Palastinians 60 years brutalization and Lebanese people. But like they say every dog has his days, and I feel that the end of Isreal as we know is getting closer and closer very day and every year that passes. Its allot how the Crusaders who brutalized people of Palastine and Lebanon for 90 years were chased out. I feel Isreal is heading to the same destination, but the difference is that Crusaders at least had people who would welcome them back in Europe...but the Zoinist no one wants them. Europeans who scream loud for Jewish rights don't want them, Americans who are biggest supporters of Isreal don't want them to, so the place to send them would be North Pole or South Pole. Lionheart
Zoinists are just extention of the Nazis who they used to establish the state of Isreal who has been nothing but a cancer to Mid east. Europe and US have dumped their garbage in Middle east. MaaaD This is not the right place to address this. But Jew, Israeli and Zionist are not three interchangable terms. Jew - Religion Israeli - Country Zionist - Ideology You can be part of one and not the other .. just an FYI .. LH i dont agree with alot of what you have posted, you have good intentions but you can get over zealous and like to use propoganda. If you want to convince people with your point of view you will need to try more facts less hype. Corcovado





Corcovado Shame on you Human beings for allowing this to happen... Shame On You... Shame On You mraph33
Give me a break!!!! So you found a racist quote from some Rabbi!!! What's your point???? You think that there was never a Mufti who said something like that....or even worse? Don't spread hate. Chocoholic
Yes I agree it is shameful! However Corcovado, what are you and your people doing to stop and avoid it? The answer simply is nothing! My friends of other nations have all stated that if this was happening to their home country, they'd have gone home, got drafted and be fighting for the cause. But it seems many are too happy with their comfortable safe lives here to really care about the homeland and those stranded there, or which I too have friends who're stuck. Concord
Great post. Corcovado
excuse me u always throw conclusions as if u know anything..... me and my friends here are doing our best to go back home but the fcuking Israelies destroyed the airports and all enterance :evil: :evil: i am going to jordan to try to get in through syria ...but they are attacking their too ... my mom is there and my whole family ... u have no idea so please please dont say a word ... i am sad and worried enough to have u tell me that i failed my country" THANKS TO UR HELP TO THE ISRAELIS" mraph33 Hey people, lets get back on track again, and out of the personal insults. Corcovado ............. Nick81
This is just too easy an answer... Would you REALLY do that?
And please, what can anyone do against Israel? Fight? We have no weapons. Are we supposed to shoot at warplanes with slingshots? They're barbarians, they'll stop at nothing to reach their "goal". They slaughtered an entire nation, invaded a country and they're still doing it unpunished.
Just take a look at our Arab "brothers". Just opening their check books and thinking making promises of donations is going to make things better for all the people dying RIGHT NOW, for all the people sleeping in the STREETS, with NO FOOD, NO WATER, NO HOPE. AS usual with all the corruption in this country, we'll just end up with more people driving BMWs and Mercedes. MaaaD
Chocoholic the Lebanese army is not involved in this so going back home to fight is not an option. Hezbollah is an exclusive party that is not open to all to join since they rely on secrecy as a big weapon against being inflitrated by Israel. I think your comments would make someone like Corc or Nick who is stuck here with no option to go home feel like shit, not very nice of you. MaaaD
hey man they brought down an aeroplane today so slingshots might do the job ;)

Nick, the UAE Red Crescent is in charge of the donation drive here in the UAE and the CFO of the red crescent is a good family friend of ours. I can assure you they never give cash to any local official they either send actual supplies from here or have there reps buy it in Lebanon and give it out to the people. So i would be assured it wont go to anyones pockets. I can put you in touch with him if you want more details on the operation. Personally, i feel like its the *least* we can do right now, help rebuild and support the people financially. MaaaD Guys anyone spoke/intouch with Liban ? Is he and his family OK ? arnie ? Nick81
I think the "Sweety" issue might've been more serious than we thought... KeithL
was sweety his wife ? :? Lionheart
If Iman or muslim leader said this he would have been lynche/prosecuted or called terrorist like many muslim Iman who dare to say thing about Zoinist Regime are. But Zoinist leader whether its Rabbi or Politician or general they can say whatever they want about anybody, especially the Arabs without being called rascist or things...they also green light to kill and terrorize as many arabs they without being called terrorist. If you think this is the view of one rascist Rabbi, you are mistaken my friend. This view of almost Zoinist leaders in Isreal whether they be rabbi or General or Politician..
Iranians were condemned and Isolated for saying less, but Isreal on the other can say whatever they, can destroy country without condemnation. arniegang
Maaad i sent him a pm but no reply, i will ring him tom to find out, i will let you guys know
***********note to everyone***************
I do not want this thread to go "off topic". If i think it does i will delete the posts without warning.
The subject is obviously close to some peoples hearts, will everyone please be appreciative of this.
Thanks Mr & Mrs Inquirer France, US, Britain and a host of other nations are to evacuate their citizens from Lebanon as Israeli air strikes pounded the country for a fifth day arniegang Lionheart I mean no disrespect but all you seem to do is paste quote after quote after quote. I have deleted 2 posts of yours that were prime examples of this. If you have nothing to say of your own, then please just post the links for us all to read. Cheers Mod cutielb I would like to share my sorrow with all the Lebanese people. I am very upset about the situation, the fact that i see my beloved country sinking bit by bit makes my heart stop. Not able to sleep for so many days seeing the things in the Media, makes my stress grow and my anger rage more and more. The inability to do anything about it is the worse part of all this. It all started in a weird unexpected way "1 day", "1 incident"= cause > " effect"= "bombing", " destuction" day by day hour by hour. Although i am here but believe me that everyday i feel as if i am down in Lebanon. The suffocation i get, being short of breath kills! I am not with any political party, i am with someone who is willing to help Lebanon into becoming a WAR-FREE country like all the other countries in Europe (as we are Pro European) this is how i see my country and this is how it will flourish. There has to be change! To make the world a better place to live in. I pray for you my Lebanon, bhibbak ya libnan! :sunny: Our sun will always shine... Lionheart If US and Britian can't condenm the actions of Isreal against Lebanese civilians than why don't Arabs use their asset and shut down Oil pipes to UK, US and Isreal. Opec countries like Saud Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwaite should use their leverage if they are humans to help their brethrens in Lebanon who are facing naked aggression of the Zoinist State. Its time for Arabs to show one front against this bullying instead of the in fighting and disagreement they have shown so far. HP Good work daddy :P Lionheart
Arniega do Zoinist also control dubai forum, if not than why did you delete the quates that I have posted.If you wanted to know the reason I posted them you could have asked me before the deleting them. Arniega you don't ask others I have seen cut and paste to post their link but you seem to ask me all the time to past the link instead of cutting and pasting, know why is that. I mean if you don't want to read the quotes you don't have to, I'm not forcing you to read, but you have been disrespectful by deleting my quates and denied others who might want to read the quates opportunity to read. Arniega I'm afraid you are turning this discussion board into dictatorship or the Zoinist media in the West that seems to terminate any criticism of the Zoinist state and its blood hungary citizens.
Anyway this is the reason why I posted the quotes..
By; mraph33 wrote
Give me a break!!!! So you found a racist quote from some Rabbi!!! What's your point???? You think that there was never a Mufti who said something like that....or even worse? Don't spread hate. Lionheart Arniega why did you delete what I have posted? And please don't tell me it was cut&paste, because I know for fact that there allot threads that have information that have been cu&pasted and you certainly haven't bothered to delete them, but you have bothered to delete important qoute of Zoinist Rascism and terrorism. Are you are Zoinist Arniega? Concord Lionheart, You strike me as a passionate person but perhaps a bit too bias. Repeating the same mantra will not help your "cause". It comes as no surprise,I imagine,to many in this forum that there are both good and decent people as well as bad people in Lebanon, Israel, Europe, USA, etc. Likewise, there are radicals (on both extremes) in those countries as well. Regarless of what you think of the the people of USA, Israel, Europe, etc. not every single citizen thinks alike (for example over 150 million people in the USA - many times the population of Lebanon and Israel combined - did not vote for Bush and 2/3 of the population (200 Million) disagree with him at the moment - but that is democracy). The best way for things to be worked out is through dialogue and understanding (from personal relatioships to warfare) so spouting views and not listening to the other views won't help. Having said that, thank god for the "democratic" dubaiforums where you are free to express your views but so are others. So you know, freedom of expression carries consequences (the concept of "freedom of expression" relates to govermental intervention or retribution and not private citizens). Calling someone or group "Zionists"doesn't make them so any more than calling someone else or group "terrorists" doesn't make them so... Anyway, I trust the situation will get better shortly and that everyone exerts their respective influences (including forum members - in whatever form) in a positive way towards lasting peace. Perhaps you need a bit more exposure to people of different races and religions to understand that mostly everyone wants peace. Lionheart

Concord I don't think I'm less bias than you and other westerners in here, but anyway if you feel I'm bias maybe its because of what I see right know and what has taken place the last 100 years. Just take look at how most western media is justifying the bombings of civilians in Lebanon as self-defense by Isreal and condenming when Hizballah responds back by bombing Isrealis minimum damage as terrorist attack against Isreal. Bush and Blair called it as Isrealis right to defend themself. These are the same leaders who cryed about 9/11 and 7/7 as an act of terrorism, but know they justify an act of terrorism against innocent civilians. I ask you and other westerners how much is Arab/muslim life worth...if nothing than how could you ask me to stop being bias when I have been shown nothing but disregard for the life of people of Middle east by the West.
[qoute]The best way for things to be worked out is through dialogue and understanding (from personal relatioships to warfare) so spouting views and not listening to the other views won't help. Having said that thank god for the "democratic" dubaiforums where you are free to express your views but so are others. So you know, freedom of expression carries consequences (the concept of "freedom of expression" relates to govermental intervention or retribution and not private citizens).[/qoute]
Concord I have listened to others views, I have disagreed with some of them in democractic way and agreed with others. But that said others in here have not respected my right to express my views and them with others..in particular AKA Arniege who seems to ignore the cut&past done by others, but has a problem when I do it. I understand Arnieges need to flex his muscles like the Zoinist state, but I feel he could have come to me and me nicely to remove quates instead of deleting them without consulting with me.
[qoute]Calling someone or group "Zionists"doesn't make them so any more than calling someone else or group "terrorists" doesn't make them so...[/qoute]
Concord Isreal is Zoinist state the same way Germany during World War 2 were a Nazi State. Now I know that you consider any muslim fighting for his right as terrorist, but to me a terrorist is the terror Isrealis are committing against Lebanese civilians and terror the americans/British have brought to Iraq. I don't see any difference between what Al Qeada did in Sep 11, or what Train bus bombers did in London and what Americans/British are doing in Iraq and what Isrealis are doing to Lebanon and what they have been doing to Palastinians for the last 60 years. I'm sick and tired of having to explain the conduct of nutcases like Bin Laden and his crew just cause I happen to share religion with them, but American/British citizens don't have to explain the terrorism their government has brought to citizens in Afghanistan and Iraq...Isrealis don't have to explain how their state was established and the terrorism the Zoinist state has inflicted on its neighbors the last 60 years. Concord lets condenm all form of terrorism, lets not justify one form and condenm another form.
Concord
"The same way you bleed, the people of Middle east bleed"
"The same way you want your people to determine their future without foriegn interference, People in Mid east want that right with any interference from Western Powers"
"The same way people in Europe and States did not want to give part of their land to Jews they have committed crime against, Palastinians who have not wronged Jews did not want to give away the land of their forefathers"
"The same way you want peace, people in Mid east want peace" Concord Lionheart, You got problems my friend. No need for you to wait by the phone as the Nobel Peace Prize Committee won't be calling you soon. I have a recommendation: save the keystrokes responding to me directly as I have better ways to waste my time than engaging you in any "rational" discussion. Have a nice life. sharewadi
Read what he said. It made perfect sense to me. Their accuracy is questionable anyway.
Those alleged quotes are available on numerous pages to which you could have provided a link, as AG said (and there are numerous similar alleged quotes available that are attributed to leaders supporting the Palestinian plight). All they really show is the level of hatred some people have. Sad. By the way, the internet is not a voice of authority. Just because something is on a website, does not mean it is accurate.
You know, when I lived in Europe for a while, I learnt that to voice any criticism of Israel was a 'bad thing' and even just a simple question would provoke surprisingly harsh reactions from many people. I learnt to keep my mouth shut except when talking to people who could discuss and reason and listen objectively whilst keeping whatever prejudices they may have in check.
LH, your attitude reminds me of the extremist Zionists I encountered in Europe. Your passion for your beliefs overrides any objectivity you might have or have had. You become very judgemental and make irrational accusations.
You see a label a long time before you see the person and judge accordingly. Implying arniegang (and the Dubai Forums) is a Zionist, or sympathetic to the Zionist cause, is a perfect example of that. I have never seen anything in his postings that remotely indicates he has any affiliation with Zionism. Your accusations reflect far more negatively on you than they do on anyone else here.
We are all people first, some of whom may be a lost cause, but I think the majority are inherently good. We all bleed when shot, we all feel rage when our families are threatened, we all hurt when someone we care about dies. Those are human feelings and both sides in this conflict have them and react to them.
Brute force might remove a perceived problem but true understanding and a genuine desire for peace instead of annihilation is what is needed to find a tolerable solution. Until people with that attitude on both sides also have authority and look for a solution instead of blame, the region will continue to bleed.
* SW removes foot from rant pedal * sharewadi
Now that's actually a more worthwhile comment and an interesting question.
If they did, it would certainly make a difference. So why don't they? Corcovado
france sent their Prime Minister to Lebanon as a form of standing by the lebanese people ...so go bite urself :evil: :evil: :evil: Corcovado
oh my dear ... i am with u ..i feel the same .. our souls are there with our people .. i am not doing any work ..i cant..did u come to the lebanese gathering yesterday at 2 infront of mbc?? it was very emotional.. i was crying the whole time.. men were crying ..in one vioce we said: WE LOVE U LEBANON ... GOD PROTECT U LEBANON :cry: :cry: sharewadi
You know Mr & Mrs Inquirer are just trolls? Corcovado
why dont mods bann them? sharewadi
Banning trolls can sometimes make the problem worse. Ignoring them is the best thing to do (admittedly, not the easiest sometimes).
<edit>
(that's an observation, not a comment on DF moderation policy)
</edit> Corcovado
yeah ..thats right .. i will try :roll: sharewadi
Good luck :) .
BTW, I sense you are in a lot of pain now. I may disagree with some of what you say because of my beliefs but I do sympathise with you and I do understand this crisis is very difficult to deal with. Corcovado
yeah .. thank you for ur sympathy ... we are strong ...and we will win Lionheart

Its not that I have problem as much as you don't want the hear the truth and that you have your eyes and ears shut from the truth. Nobel Peace Prize..I would rather prefer the blessing and reward of God than phony reward.
[Quote]I have a recommendation: save the keystrokes responding to me directly as I have better ways to waste my time than engaging you in any "rational" discussion.[/Qoute]
Is this the usual way of saying that I rather stick my head in the sand than hear the truth??? :lol:

Thanks, I hope you have a nice life too. mraph33
Actaully this Rabbi was condemmed....you should read the news, and not just Google "Racist Rabbi Quotes."
If you are interested in reading about it:
And one other point - this guy is neither a 'zionist leader' or in Israel - he's in the US. Just a screwed up guy who uses religion as the basis of his hate, like so many others. Lionheart
Who are you kidding... sharewadi He did explain and they are cut and paste. I found several hundred sites with the same quotes in the same sequence.
I didn't say you didn't provide a link.
I didn't say they were fake, I said they were questionable. I looked at twelve sites with commentary. Ten of them were obvious Zionist sites so I ignored them. The other two, I don't know yet whether they're objective so my opinion remains the quotes are questionable, not necessarily true or false.
Anyway, I'm well aware of what some Israelis/Jews/Zionists think of Arabs. And I think their negative attitude is appalling and contributes to the escalation of the conflict, not a solution. You appear to have the same attitude towards Israelis/Jews/Zionists and so I have the same opinion of your attitude as I do of theirs. That does not make me a Zionist supporter.
You have your opinion of me and I very much doubt anything I say will change it for the better. sharewadi
Rational and objective of course, IMHO (well, I can only speak for myself) :). Corcovado back to topic people please .... its about Israel And lebanon..not what i said and he said ....damn it ..People are dying now ..and u are fighting over silly stuff .... Sympathy people ...Sympathy :( :( sharewadi
Fair point :oops: . kanelli Lionheart has no critical thinking ability and is king of propaganda. Take what he says with a grain of salt. Corcovado, we do sympathise, it is just easy to get into battles with some posters because of what they are saying. Sorry :oops: Corcovado Awww.. thank u for understanding :salute: arniegang Right i have had enough. I posted well back that this thread was of a sensitive issue and would people understand and appreciate this. Lionheart i am not going to debate with you the why's and wherefore's about your posts. Liban and i make the decisions in here. I will not allow this this thread to degenerate into a propagana exercise and personal attack on anyone that has any form of alternative viewpoint. If you have nothing constructive of your own to say, then i respectfully ask you to keep your mouth shut. Any more Lionheart, and i will just delete your posts without futher warning like i have done this morning. ___________________________________________________ Further note to Mr & Mrs Enquirer: Any more of your crap and i will also delete your post without further warning. Here endeth the lesson MaaaD and back to the topic a picture in NY Times that broke my heart ..

"Men wept in Tyre, Lebanon, a seaside town that has been a target of Israeli air raids, after a bomb injured children swimming in an irrigation canal." Corcovado just now , the Israel bombed 2 ambulance on the road and killed everyone , :cry: :cry: :cry: kanelli This is so sad :cry: fayz what is really sad is its only going to get worse :( :( constantine i really wish and pray it doesnt...i am an optimist...really hope it comes to an end quickly... arniegang Maaad Left a message on Libans voicemail this morning, i will let you know when he gets back to me. I passed onto him all our good wishes and hoped his family and friends were safe. fayz
Nothing would make me happier than you being right.
Stories like this is what really disgust me. People always try to prosper on others misery and suffering....
constantine that is the pit of human behaviour...doesnt get any worse than this does it... fayz I was reading the newspapers, one of the dead is an 11 month old Canadian Girl, actually 7 Canadians have been murdered (one family) in the estimated 200 dead so far. very very sad. What is the 11 month old or any of the other countless dead children Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese guilty of? Breaks my heart that in this day and age people who have the power to stop this don't, people seem to study history in school but no one learns from it. Corcovado
Israelis bombed a Church ......... :evil: :evil: :evil: where the hell is the world???? MaaaD
to busy arguing if Hezbollah is a terrorist group.... :roll: Corcovado
yeah ...ISRAEL IS THE TERRORIST Nick81 *takes a peak* Hmm, I was complaining today because this week has easily been one of the worst since I got to Dubai. 2 of my coworkers took their holidays so I inherited ALL their customers. Considering the situation, that might actually be a good thing, keeps me busy you know... :roll: I don't know where I find the energy to work... MaaaD
redbull ibya3teek ijwanee7 .. wooooooooooooooooooooo Corcovado
same here nick ..i am so drained i cant even think ... i have to work but i simply can't :( :( kanelli Delete and ban this user. I am now taking out my bottle of Troll-Be-Gone spray and dousing your ass! Chocoholic I don't support anyone. However many seem to forget that there are INNOCENT people dying on BOTH sides here, not just one. And all caused by stupid mistakes by both parties, the whole situation is ridiculous and it's the innocent by-standers that are bearing the brunt once again. A once beautiful city which has suffered so much is lying in ruins and it's awful. The sad thing is at G8 they're doing nothing to help the situation at all, it just keeps going round and round in circles, and who's winning? Nobody, everyone's losing. Nick81 Did you guys hear the captured conversation between Bush and Blair? They were talking without knowing Bush's mic was on... Good stuff. raidah
im sure they knew...
and by the way, Bush eats like a common peasant with open mouth and talking in the meantime... :? Nick81
He's a redneck... A cowboy... Even a common peasant can be considered a Lord next to him! :P XRW-147
The Lebanese civilians killed have been 10 fold and have the Israeli civilians been trapped like mouse and forced to flee from town to town to avoid certain death? Corcovado
i think ur posts are offensive,insulting and annoying and i think u should be banned ... :evil: :evil: Mr & Mrs Inquirer Support free speech: MaaaD Guys here are two blogs where you can get updates on the situation in Lebanon that you might hear anywhere else: / / MaaaD Lionheart
Kanelli I think that title belongs to the fair and balanced media outlets like Fox news, CNN, ABC, NBC,, CBS and to some extent BBC. Lionheart
Firstoff all I will apologize for calling you Zoinist, I was wrong and emotion got the best of me. But at the same time I feel that you wronged me by deleting my posts and calling it propoganda without asking me. I don't think the information that I posted was propoganda and if you felt it was a propganda than I apologize. I never meant to degrade the discussion. My goal and aim was to proof mraph wrong. Lionheart
Corcovado my sympathy and my prayers are with the Labanese people who facing a naked aggression from the Zoinist state. I hope they overcome their enemies.
BS; I apologize if I went off topic. mraph33
You can always go to their website and forums and try to insult some people there:
/ mraph33
Nothing is funnier than when his dad puked on the Japanese Prime Minister. Corcovado A thank you from Lebanon to Israel ....please watch / Eros People .... relax. Why all this mud slinging. Its not worth it. You are going to achieve nothing by this discussion. Nothing you say or do will affect the situation in Lebanon or Israel. The irony is the people who can make the difference are never affected. You never hear of the president being killed in a missile attack. its the innocent people in the streets that are affected. A senior from my college got killed in the train blast in Mumbai. I cant believe it. Just 3 years ago we were having tea in the college canteen, and now he is dead. Someone has lost a son, a brother, a friend etc. Life is too short to hold grudges. So lets not make this thread longer and discusss about this that we can do nothing about. XRW-147 Lives of many innocent civilians for 2 mofos is measured? - I think not! mraph33
Never once in any have your posts have you mentioned that there are dead Israeli civilians also......doesn't that bother you also? Chocoholic Well I did make the point that people were being killed on BOTH sides, all are innocents. However, I was deeply shocked and saddened to see the picutre in today's papers of Israeli children writing messages on bombs, which just goes to show that if innocent minded children are being taught to hate and never change the way of things there really is no hope. Concord
I had the very same thought withing seconds of seeing the photos. It also shows arrogance, etc. arniegang Lionheart I dont take offense at you calling me anything, i merely want this discussion to remain focused on the current situation. Just posting pages and pages of quotes is not "discussion". I am sure you agree this thread is very sensitive because people on our forum are personally affected by this situation. Speak from the Heart Lionheart, you have much to contribute as an individual. Mr & Mrs Inquirer No comment. mraph33
I'm not counting corpses, I'm asking a humanist question.
About being trapped like mice: those that live in north of Israel have been living in bomb shelters. It a wonder why they don't exist in Lebanon....it is unfortunately a country that is familiar with war - from all sides and from within. While a bomb shelter is not a vacation spa, it does keep people alive. Corcovado
what the hell do u mean by familiar with war???? ha?? we didnt build shelters because we enjoy dying?? ...u selfish heartless monster :evil: :evil: :evil: mraph33 What monster??? Chill out girl fayz
The Canadians I mentioned above were also massacared by Israelis MaaaD BBC is getting human real stories from both sides of the conflict sharewadi Probably not directly but perhaps we get a better understanding of the situation from reading and taking part in discussions such as this. And the more that people understand, the more chance there is of finding a solution :?:
Or maybe I'm too optimistic. There's a few thousand years of history written by victors that goes against my POV :? ... MaaaD
or maybe if we try to lessen the ignorance of people, they will be liess likely to elect just as ignorant leaders who in the end are the reason behind this mess :) MaaaD
Let me point out one thing choco, mraph and everyone who is wondering why we are not crying for the death of the israeli civilians... 80% of the Israeli population are strongly behind the atrocities the goverment is comitting in Lebanon and Palestine. While the majority of the Lebanese population is not war mongering and wanting to inflict the same upon the Israeli population. So while you always want to stress the death of civilians on both sides. Look at the civilians dying..
In lebanon, they are fleeing trying to stay alive.
In Israel, they are signing missles,and cheering along the goverment.
Doesnt justify the deaths, but at least the Israelis are accepting this war situation and will accept the deaths as collateral damage. Corcovado
Thank u maad..couldnt say it any better Mr & Mrs Inquirer This conflict was never about Israel wanting to get back the soldiers, but rather Israel expanding its terroritory. Utter Rubbish!...... it`s about the war on terror and you people are all bias against Israel, U.S.A and the free world freza
kanelli,
I think your arguments are beyond biased. It seems that you also have selective memory.
Kidnapping of soldiers is NOT an act of war, it is simply that, kidnapping. Hezbollah are asking for prisoner exchanges - these being prisoners that have been held without trials, without legal representation, without rights by Israel for many years. In the past Israel has indeed done prisoner exchanges, Hezbollah was counting on this fact. Imprisoning people without charges and without trials, IS still illegal. But you only seem to harp on the illegality of the actions of Hezbollah and that cross border kidnapping. What about the illegality Israel's numerous air and land violations on its neighbor's borders? In that case, whenever Israel breaks sovereignty rules by invading the air space of another country - with their FIGHTER JETS - such actions should be taken as an "act of war", right? I mean, it's only logical if we're to go by the "logic" that Israel the US and it's propagandists are using...
Your selective memory also seems to forget this recent incident of Israeli military kidnapping Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Notice how the media uses the word "capture" instead of "kidnapping". The media using kid gloves with Israel, how astonishing!
And speaking of kidnappings, what about the US overseas kidnappings of suspected terrorists? The CIA broke every international rule imaginable against men that were captured in Europe and the Middle East. And most of these kidnapped people were simply victims of mistaken identity. Can you imagine any one of the countries where these men were kidnapped from declaring US renditions as "acts of war"?
I think it's quite clear that Israel and the US can get away with illegal warfare while spewing an abundance of shallow rhetoric to justify their criminal actions. Lionheart
15 Isreal Civilians died in Hizbollah rocket attacks compared to isrealis bombing which they killed over 170 civilians. Also consider the fact that Isreal is using the latest weapons given by US to kill people. They are using jets to bomb civilians in Lebanon like they have done for many years in Palastine, but I guess that is not terrorism since Isreal is immune from being called terrorist.Isreal says it has guided missiles that accurrate, but their guided missiles have killed more people than Hizbollah unguided missiles. It seems like Isreal is the one targeting civilians purposely and terrorizing. Lionheart
Kanelli what 1000's of Palastinians and Lebanese that have been kidnapped from their homes and prisoned without trail since 80's, 90's? Aren't they humans too, don't they families that grieve and worry about them too. Hizbollah did not kidnapped Isreal soliders, because you can't kidnap a soliders...Solider is abducated not kidnapped. But the Palastinians and Lebanese who are in prison without trail are as young as 14 and some of woman, know how come the media does not mention them being kidnapped from their homes by Isreal soliders...how come no one mentions that Isreal has in prison kids as young as 14 without trail...But Isreal goes crazy when two soliders were abducted in Lebanese territory not in Isreal. This conflict was never about Isreal wanting to get back the soliders, but rather Isreal expanding its terroritory. tonl Specially to Corcovado and Nick Went through the postings here and it really touched my heart. with so many innocent lives lost with all this senseless bombarbment on civilian target, I can only offer my prayers for the safety of your family members still in Lebanon. Be strong guys. I pray that this war may come to an end soon. from Singapore. Corcovado
thank u so much , i am really touched with ur concern .. Pray for us , Pray for lebanon :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Lionheart
What free world do you speak off... I hope its not Bush America and Zoinist State. Lionheart Bush White House just called the bombing against Lebanon and Palastine as part of the War on Terror... This is the same country that destroyed two countries because 3000 of their civilians were killed by so-called Alqeada, but know they are approving the killing of and destruction of country as part of War on terror...no wonder US is hated in Mid east and if it wasn't for puppet leaders they control they would have opperated in Mid east. Lionheart Hillary Clinton celebrates Israeli war crimes
“We will support [Israel’s] efforts to send a message to Hamas, Hezbollah, to the Syrians, to the Iranians, to all who seek death and domination instead of life and freedom,” she told the crowd.
arso304 the people of lebanon and its supporters will never give in, i have my faith in that. Mr & Mrs Inquirer Bush America and Zoinist State ,E.U normal world :) Lionheart
So Normal and free society is..
Bush America...having concentration camp in Guantanimo, in prising people without trail. Spying on their own citizens, giving over 5 billion to another country( everyone knows who I'm talking about) while their own citizens in New Orleans live in conditions that would rivale some of the poorest countries in the world. Were Lobbyist determine what policies the lelected politicians in the country should pursue, were money will buy you an elected official basically. Were few control the majority, and etc.
EU consists of allot of countries..but lets take an example of Austaria and Germany..were citizens are denied the freedom to question the Holocoust. I believe in Austaria a man is in jail for simply questions what really happened in the Holocoust. I thought freedom of speach gave people the right to question anything...hell Europeans used freedom of Speach to insult prophet of God, but they can't question the holocoust, beacuse of fear of view Zoinist. Isn't this a case of few controlling the majority...
Zoinist State is not worth discussing since its as free as Nazi Germany. MS
What you have been saying throughout the thread is utter nonsense.
When Britain was occupying India, those who resisted the occupation were labeled by Indians as heros and patriots, and at the same time labeled by the British as terrorist. George Washington was also called a terrorist by the British. So don't even use the term terror or war on terror, nobody will buy this here .....it is just an argument used by the powerful to enforce their interests.
SO SHUT THE **************** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Mr Burj-Al-American Idiot I don't know how many times I have mentioned throughout my membership here, but I am also American and let me state my opinion. I am angry at Hezbollah for making their foolish attempts to get Israel back on their typical retaliation rampages.
But I am even more angry at the Israeli response. If I were Israel, I would just send in special ops teams and try to neutralize the Hezbollah camps instead of bombing the Sh*t out of Lebanon. I really dont think they picked their targets too well anyway. I see reports of them bombing the city and suburbs, and even the international terminal of their airport. Good luck rooting out Hezbollah like that. (sorry but this rant is not meant to be offensive)
It's a very nice country anyway and there are a lot of westerners as well. (well now they're all being evacuated thank you very much Israel) :roll:
And shitshes like Inquirer should stfu about this. I think he's purposely trying to mimic some array of radical/sexist/racist/everything bad history had to offer. Message to you, Inquirer: You were probably the guy on . I'm surprised your account managed to survive the Dubai Forums for this long. Send your emails to CNN or the BBC or something like that. Inquira eez Shissa! :roll: :roll: :roll: mraph33
First of all...thanks for the answer. Much nicer than being called names as some of the less articulate members of the forum chose to do.
The Israeli support for the attacks (I don't know where you got the 80% figure) has a lot of reasons. But the primary reason is that there is as much ignorance in Israeli society of its neighbors as exists in this forum about Israel. The average Israeli doesn't differentiate between a person from Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq or Sudan.....they are all ARAB. In Arab countries, Israel is the enemy. In Israel, the arabs are the enemy. That doesn't mean that Israelis want to see Lebanese civilians killed, but as you said there is an 'acceptable level of collateral damage' in order to keep its borders and citizens safe. As, Israelis know that their army does not TARGET civilians - if it did, there would be 200,000 dead already. [I know there will be some disagreements about that statement].
Lebanese are fleeing to stay alive, Israelis are hiding in bomb shelters. The discrepancy in the number of killed is only because the Israelis are better protected. They are underground while the Lebanese are above ground.
To go back to my quoted question here - mankind has had a very bloody week....not only in Israel/Lebanon, also Iraq, India....and as if we are not killing each other enough....another tsunami kills 300. I hope this conflict ends as soon as possible with a few additional casulties as possible sharewadi
I thought it was 90%. It was in the Gulf News under the photo of the bomb signing. I saw the figure somewhere else too, can't remember where.
Most citizens support leaders in times of war - look at Bush's approval ratings during the last Gulf War, and yet now he's despised by so many Americans, let alone the rest of the world. Didn't sound like Olmert was very popular before this conflict started. Nasrallah has a lot more support now. I'm sure Ahmadinijad and Hafez will have more fans if they get more involved. Go back through history and you'll see much the same pattern.
It's a sad reflection on humanity that we appear to like leaders who like fighting. mraph33
Second time you've said this.....
Kind of funny because probably you're grandparents were not a blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryians....meaning they would have been burned in the ovens with the Jews, gays, gypsies and everyone else. mAJOR pAIN
about war on terror ??? and the free world ???? but at the looks of things its seems like Israel is the one terrorizing Lebanon now !!! . there is no other pos. reason to it than yes israel is trying to expand its occupied lands ... fck its all jews to me if you ask me ... they are selfish greedy fcks ... like americans they will only attack and waste money on ammunition if there is significant advantage to be taken like americans they stirred the trouble in Iraq / Kuwait and now again in Iraq fior what ?? for OIL of course .... WAR is a booming Business if you have Oil shortage and you have billions of billions worth of Military Equipment what would you do ??? go to war with Arabs ... for A take controll of the OIL , and get the neighboring countries to fear/rely on you for Military Help ..... Thats America for you .... Now lets look at it this way ... Israel ... what is the obvious need of this country ??? LAND !!! ... we all know that they need it ,. adn we all know that they had been getting their hands onto every land they can steal.....
the sad part is .... WE all know what these to nations had been doing, but i dont know why other strong nations keep their eyes closed regarding this ... They are Getting Bolder on their attacks ...
War against Terror ??? it makes you wonder ... whos the REAL Terrorist??
see gulfnews report :

i might be wrong,... then again .... we cannot deny the fact .... may it be war against terror or what ever,... What Israel did is tasteless and an ACt of Terror against the Lebanese Peoepl ... whats done is done but i just hope that when all of this is over we just pray that someone has to pay for all this crime .. Anlil http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/atrocities.htm
[url]
I don't think any of you is brave enough to go through the whole thing and see what kind of HUMANS Jewish are.
HUMANS??????
I personally think that most animals will get upset if we call the Jewish animals
And yes, Hitler had his reasons MaaaD
come on mraph33, i would think you are smarter than that. Will you read what you just said. Are you serious ? So the discrepancy has nothing to do with the fact that Israel gets billinons of dollars of military aid from the US which enables it to have the top of the line fighter jets and missiles ? You are trying to tell me this is an equal fight its just that the Israeli civilians are better protected ? i really hope i misunderstood you. BTW, most of the rocket attacks that hit haifa there were no warning sirens so the public didnt have time to go into the shelters.

Me too. MaaaD
Personally, i was a big believer of the Peace process, and i thought we could negotiate with Israel a peacful resolution and i followed closely every step since 1991. Looking back - and i dont think i am the only one - I saw the negotiations bring nothing of what any Palestinian (or most Arabs) would want for us in a home land. We were offered bits and peices and the world was pressuring us into submission of our rights given to us by the UN. A homeland in the West Bank and Gaza with East Jerusalem the capital and the right of return to the refugees. The peace negotiations got us nowhere near that.
On the other hand i see that Hezbollah has been able to get a unilateral military withdraw from south lebanon. no negotiations, no pressure, no conditions. Hamas did the same thing in Gaza, driving israel out of the strip. This was acheived with armed resistance and inflicting pain on the occupying forces.
Trust me its the Israeli goverment who has given us this impression, it seems like we wont get any conessions unless we fight .. its sad but true. so till proven otherwise i stand firmly behind armed resistance against the occupation. MS I totally agree with MaaaD. I was listening yesterday to Ihud Barak talking to Paula zahn on CNN. He was saying "we are living in the Mideast and not the Midwest. It is a region that has no respect for the weak". Obviously, Israelis are accusing arabs countries of respecting power only. This is in spite the fact that most arab countries are already out of the conflict, and have been talking about peace as a strategic choice for many years now. The one that is still in conflict (Syria), is doing absolutely nothing. It is obvious that Israel is the country that has the respect-power-only mindset. Corcovado i am from a town called baalback in lebenon and in one hour they bombed 17 times .. my hometown will never be the same again .. i will go there and all my friends will be gone .. i will walk in baalback streets and i wont see a friendly face ...THEY ARE ALL GONE :cry: :cry: :cry: mraph33
The difference between a Katusha and an F-16 is clear. And the difference in firepower between the sides is also clear. I'm not a weapons expert, but it seems to me that even against an F-16 you are safer in a bomb shelter than you are walking outside. There have been no Israeli civilian causalties of people in bomb shelters and there are buildings that have been destroyed.
Regarding the malfunction of the warning sirens, I haven't read about that anywhere. In any case, it doesn't contradict my point. mraph33
Unfortunately neither side trusts the other.....so that's what's left.....to show force. Corcovado i just hope that u people are watching tv and aware of what is going on in lebanon ....Choc...please watch and see and hear and then i know u will change ur views Chocoholic I am watching everyday and reading about it everyday. What is happening to Lebanon and it's people is terrible, but it doesn't change my opinion that it gives you the right to want to destroy an entire nation in retalliation. That would make you no better than them!!! The real strength of people is not to stoop down to the lowest denominator, but to rise above it. sniper420
That was funny Corcovado
Go who go? u came here to support the people who are killing our children and destroying our countries with no right what so ever and ur saying GO JEWS ? :evil: :evil: is it a baseball game for u ...? another heartless monster who needs pop corn to enjoy the show :pukeright: u make me sick Chocoholic Corcovado, Nostrodamus is a known wind-up merchant on the forum and posts things like this to annoy people, ignore him and don't let your emotions get the better of you. He's probably making it up, he makes the majority of what he says up. There's no way the US would get invovled directly in this, if they did it would give the green light for others to wade in. Be realistic and look objectively at it. Chocoholic Also interesting to note that no-one has bothered to mention the fact that the U.S. has just sent a 30 million dollar aid package to -oh - wait for it! The people of LEBANON! It's all to easy to brand certain people as monsters first and humans last. While people still let their emotions of hate, anger and revenge get the better of them, situations like this will continue. Corcovado
yeah i will get a knife and stab u to death and then give u a doctor's number thats just silly choc... u have a selective memory :evil: XRW-147 Guys (girls) lets lay off the personal attacks, shall we? And Nostralface you have been warned many times before. Chocoholic My god, what the hell is your problem! You're now getting ridiculous. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you're too emotional about the whole thing, you're blinded by your anger and hatred, it's quite sad really that someone can carry such hatred. It's a shame because I actually thought you were quite sweet the other night, but just goes to show that people show they're true colours when they can hide in a chat room. I also find it really pathetic that you can't even see when others are trying to help. So maybe the U.S. should tell you to carry no suffering and withdraw their aid, I suppose that would make you happy. But of course you're not suffering are you because YOU are NOT THERE! You're here living it up, singing and drinking and having a laugh! That's what's really sad. Corcovado
thats so rude ... i am not THERE my parents are there ... i was not coming to that thing that night but my friends said i cant go on crying every night ... plus i was going to lebanon next week with all that shit going on there but i had to promise a concerned friend i wont go cos i might die... my parents are there my friends.. i might go now and find my house on the ground ..and one of my friends is injured ... thank u for being insesitive and rude Chocoholic Well excuse me if you find my comments ruse, but you're not the only one with people you care about there! And I suspect that if anything happened to your family or friends, then you wouldn't be turning around telling people, to take back their aid just because it came from a country you didn't like! It's just another example of your blinded views and that you cannot look at the bigger picture. Yes, the U.S. should be condemmed for their support of Israel, but at this point in time aid from any source should be welcome. How would you like it if it was one of your loved ones lying in the back of a car wounded unable to be treated as there are no hospital facilities available? Also why are you not shouting at your 'neighbours' for their lack of help? All the Saudis do is sit there and say 'oh yes we hate it all, please stop it'. Well boo friggin' hoo that's just words love! At least others are doing something about it whether you like it or not and you should be bloody grateful for that! Corcovado i told u before we dont need aid from our killers , its double faced and ironic ... please watch the news our friends they gave us like 200 million dollars to help but the f**king israelis wont let the help to come through get out of ur cocoon and see the world ... and u have no right what so ever to put personal stuff here ... :evil: :evil: and we both know who is the rude person here Chocoholic Aggressive attitudes don not help situations. It's aggressive attitudes like yours which start wars in the first place. I have always agreed with you in condemming the Israeli's and the Americans for their policies. But you fail to see the bigger picture. Not once have you codemmed Hezbollah for anything, which can only mean you're a supporter of a horrid regime. It still does not justify what the Israeli's are doing - as I've said for the 50 millionth time. But other factions also need to stop their offensives. Peace can only be reached by all sides agreeing to put down their weapons and stop what is going on. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. It's as if you want the killnig to go on! Not once have you asked for peace, instead you call for the irradication of entire peoples. So I'm wondering who's the real aggressor here? Is it me for calling for peace in the region, for open discussion and a solution to age olld problems? Or is it you, you would shun those who help, and brand a whole nation for the actions of a few, and fail to see the problems within your own country and the factions there who wish for war and upset. Take a step back and think about it. Chocoholic Guys, Some of you might think I'm being harsh to Corcovado. However, I am a very tolerant person, and I would never say I 'hate' anyone. 'Hate' is a very strong passionate word. I would never wish death or destruction to anyone or anything. I find it incredibly sad and counter productive to the progression of the 'human' species to wish destruction on any other peoples. Also you cannot tar any one nationality, religion or group of people for the actions of a few. An interesting letter in the paper yesterday: No all Muslims are Arab not all Arabs are Muslim not all Israelis are Jews not all Jews are Israeli And so it would go on. Wars and battles serve no purpose, there are no winners and the only losers are the innocent civilians who pay the price and those who would be persecuted for the actions of the careless few, who are always in the minority, yet they seem to win. And why? Because they are able to enourage anger and hatred with their actions. As conscious, mindful beings, should we not see through this? Of course we should, but those who encourage hatred and division count on the fact of kneejerk reactions. Corcovado choco what u said later about me not caring and having fun while my family and people are in danger and dying is just so harsh and u really hurt me ... so please lets not talk as all ur doing is causing pain .... arniegang Play nice people. Corcovado me and chocoholic have a peace agreement ... based on respect ..lets hope the world will do the same .. PEACE EVERYONE :angel7: mraph33 Glad to hear it.....its a shame to have this locked Chocoholic Yep, things can work out. :D Corcovado i think its our last chance from UN "moderators" or they will lock the topic ...so lets all behave and enjoy our discussions :salute: XRW-147 Peacemakers have done it again. mraph33 Maybe we should send the DF moderators with Condoleeza on her Mid-East tour Chocoholic The DF Peacekeepers! Well the men don't seem to be getting anywhere, so maybe it does need a womans touch. Reading through some news stories this morning and at last, people are finally starting to disagree with Mr Bush, who would happily sit back and watch it all implode. Whereas Ms Rice and Lapdog Blair for their faults, actually want a resolution both short and long term. We can but wait and see. Corcovado
i agree we need a female moderator .... :protest: ajb Are you offering Corc's? Corcovado
i dont think she is looking for peace in her tour Nick81 I personally do not care for the US help in this war. They can give us 100 billions dollars, but this won't excuse them for making Israel the country it is today and just delivering them a few days ago "special" ammunition to pierce through bunkers. This just means it'll make it easier to kill innocent civilians by piercing through their HOUSES. Good job. Corcovado
very true Nick , i agree 100 % Corcovado
why not? ajb
You should ask the powers that be ...... Corcovado i dont want to be a moderator ..i am far too wild to moderate or be moderated i prefer to be a free spirit and say whatever i want ..whenever i want 8) ajb B B B Bad bbbbad to the bone !! :twisted: Corcovado
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: mraph33 Now that we are all being civilized again....let's get back to the subject: According to UN resolution 1559, that is now being quoted a lot, it says "Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias" So do people think that Hezbollah should be disarmed (not justifying the Israeli action) - but will this be one of the end results of this war? Corcovado when israel leaves Shebaa and give us back samir Kentar and his friends , Hezbulla will give up their weapons Corcovado
there are more than one UN resolution for israel which obviouly israel never do...and i dont think israel has any right what so ever to force 1559 on lebanon... :evil: :evil: i have no trust on UN there are helpless , unfair and have no Credibility or Integrity ... they apply their power on weak countries and when it comes to israel and america they are just a shadow ... Nick81
If it doesn't happen then all the innocent civilians will have died in vain and this will happen again in a few years. Not mentioning the risk of a civil war taking place if Christians somehow get their hands on weapons too. mraph33
In any case, Israel isn't going to be the one to enforce it.
But look, you don't want US money, you don't trust the UN, none of the other Arab countries are really stepping forward to help. How is this going to end? And how is Lebanon going to rebuild itself in the aftermath? Nick81
You really think that?
You're forgetting the 2nd part of their agenda. Didn't anyone here think after what we have witnessed these 2 weeks that Hezbollah could take control of the country in a few days? Who could possibly stop them? Even Israel can't seem to do it...
Personally THIS is what I am most worried about right now. mraph33
Unfortunately, this is what I am sceptical about also. This is why I raised the question specially about Hezbollah Chocoholic If Hezbollah were to be forced to disarm then so should everyone one else. Sadly we all know this is never going to happen. It is true that the UN has proved to be very weak in dealing with this, and as yet have offered no real solutions to the problems. shafique I do think that resolution 1559 should be implemented - Hizbollah should be disarmed. However, I think that this should be done at the same time as all previous resolutions on the area - if all these resolutions are implemented then there will be much less support or even need for an armed wing of Hizbollah (who, let us not forget, have done a lot of socially good things for the Lebanese). Minimum - Israel should withdraw to it's internationally recognised borders (and therefore cease being an occupying power) and Palestinian refugees should be given the right to return - this is just civil and humanitarian. It is actually because Israel has been intransigent about the occupation and it's treatment of Palestinians that has fed the growth of the groups it so readily calls 'terrorists'. Cheers, Shafique kanelli Great post Shafique. I think your solution sounds like a good one. Too bad Israel doesn't seem to agree to moving to the internationally agreed borders or letting Palestinians return. :evil: Nick81
Fixed shafique Nick, Yes, Hizbollah are Shia muslims (which I am not by the way). When Israel invaded Lebanon 20 years ago, they just walked by the UN forces there and walked over the pitiful excuse for a Lebanese army. The result was a massacre of Palestinians in Sabra and Shatilla and then years of civil war where thousands died. Hizbollah decided to arm themselves and not let a situation where Israel could walk in unheeded again. They fought a guerilla campaign against the occupying Israelis and eventually forced them out in 2000. They forced Israel to exchange prisoners that were languishing in Israeli jails. The issue is that these facts mean that they are only Arab/Muslim group that has managed to a. push the Israeli military back out of occupation and b. have managed to negotiate the freedom of prisoners held in Israeli prisons. You are right though - the fact that these fighters are Shia is sending shivers down the spines of people in Riyadh, Washington and Tel Aviv. Actions speak louder than words. Hizbollah attacked military targets after Israel started pounding Gaza - they did not fire on civilians until Israel started pounding on Civilians in Lebanon. My view is that Druze, Christian and Sunni Lebanese all would rather have a strong Lebanese army and not be in a position of being subservient to a military attack from Israel. The tragedy is that it has taken a Shia group to organise themselves and offer Israel any resistance. The Israeli reaction, in my mind, is a sign of their realisation that there are groups now strong enough to attack their MILITARY and remove this smokescreen they kept throwing up that their 'enemies' are terrorists rather than occupied people fighting against violators of international law. It's been said before - but the point bears repeating. The reaction of Israel to suicide bombings of civilians was nothing compared to the reaction to the capture of 3 (!!) soldiers. Israel is hoping against hope that it can re-ignite Lebanese civil strife and set Sunni against Shia, Christian against Muslim etc as it did 20 years ago. I'm not sure that they won't suceed. But for now, my Christian Lebanese colleagues are all saying that the suffering their families are enduring is due to Israeli aggression and they are not blaming Hizbollah for the destruction. Cheers, Shafique fayz
Excellent post Shaf, I’m really curious to how Kanelli will answer your very accurate analogy.
Btw thank you both Shaf, Kanelli and the bulk of posters on this thread for helping to educate and openly debate about a very serious issue.
Kanelli over to you for a rebutal shafique Choco - to extend the analogy, the husband was guilty of bad mouthing the wife, restricting her allowance, not allowing her to go out freely and occasionally slapping her when no one was looking. She complained to his friends, but they said that she was his wife and he had the right to keep order in his house. To make matters worse, when he was pummelling her for her insubordination of slapping him, his friends looked on and said he was defending himself from her attacks. Now, her women friends all were trying to persuade their husbands etc that the husband was at fault, but they would have nothing of it. All the women friends were aghast at the treatment, but some said she was right to fight back, others said that it made her situation worse and that she should not have done it. I think the analogy fits extremely well. What would you, Choco, advise in this situation? Subservience in future? Do you blame the wife for the beating? What if we extend the analogy to the husband beating up the kids who had no part in the arguement? He said it was the wife's fault for making him angry when the kids were in the same room. His friends agree with him. Now who is at fault - still the wife? Food for thought. kanelli Well, maybe some people support retaliation against Israel above peace and stability in their country. That is how some Lebanese seem to be taking this. If Hizbollah hadn't done what it did, Lebanon would not be destroyed right now. Corcovado kanelli, its known to everyone that Israel was going to do this 2 month from now already ...its on the news... and they did what they did to get rid of hezzbullah and start a new mideast..AS IF :evil: :evil: :evil: ajb If they did take control you may end up with a much larger military operation against your country to displace them .... think Iraq kanelli Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely? ajb Slightly off topic but does anyone start to feel unsafe being in the ME even though you are not close to Lebanon in Dubai? I mean the Saudi's have been talking about going to war today. Corcovado
it is very close ... US injustice and invading is turning the world into anti US group and soon people will rise and decide that they are not taking US Sh!t anymore .. US and ISRAEL are leading the world to hardbottom. shafique Kanelli, There is also security and national identity to go along with peace and stability. To take an extreme example, when Germany occupied France some French took the view that peace and stability was better than fighting for freedom, others did not. The chain of events actually leads back to the bombing of the family in Gaza, Hamas breaking the ceasefire and capturing the soldier, the disproportionate attack on Gaza and refusal to trade in prisoners. Given the continuing incarceration of Palestinians and Lebanese in Israel, Hizbollah in an act of solidarity with Palestinians attacked soldiers and captured 2 - and immediately called for an exchange of prisoners. Israel did not have to bomb the hell out of Lebanon or even Gaza. Blaming Hizbollah is a little rich for many people - yes Israel is a bully and yes Israel will be backed by the US when it's actions are clearly killing women and children (and UN peacekeepers! and their rescuers!), but to 'blame' the Hizbollah for this is unfair, I would argue. I suspect you would never blame a wife for 'provoking' her husband by talking back or slapping him resulting in him beating her into a broken mess. Or perhaps some people would say it is the woman's fault?? Why not live in 'peace and stability' and not provoke her husband? Just a thought. Cheers, Shafique Eros
Lovely??!!! :shock: War means loss of time , money and people. Nothing good has ever come out of war. It should be avoided at all costs. Nick81
Eros meet sarcasm, sarcasm meet Eros :roll: Corcovado
:lol: :lol: :lol: Chocoholic No offense but actually I don't think that's a very good comparison at all. 1st off sad on the wife for a deliverate attempt to provoke the husband, 2nd for a man to react in such a way in retaliation just goes to show weakness of character as he's not big or strong rnough to ignore it and walk away. Also would go to prove just how bullish men can be. fayz No offence taken :), We may not agree and I'm definitely not always right. But isn't this a good analogy of what has happened? the wife slapped the husband, wrong. The husband instead of turning the cheak or being the better person pummelled the wife to the point where she can't walk? shafique I forgot another part of than analogy: As the husband is pummelling the wife and kids, the wife is defiant and once in a while lands a blow on the husband. The husband keeps telling everyone 'look, she is still hitting back, I have to defend myself'. The father-in-law now stands in the kitchen (who everyone thought would stay the hand of the husband when he eventually would arrive) and repeats what he said from home - "my son has the right to defend himself and I won't tell him to stop until he stops being slapped. We cannot allow our women to think they can go round slapping husbands - that is terrorism. I'm sorry the kids are being slapped and hurt, but this is the price to pay for a new era in this household." Still blame the wife? Chocoholic No, if you're putting it that way then of course she has the right to defend herself. However, fighting violence with violence is never the answer to the situation. Better off getting out of it altogether, then you won't have to suffer it. Chocoholic In a new development 4 Iranian elite Revolutionary Guards’ were killed in Lebanon, mounting the evidence that Iran are more involved than they let on and are pulling Hezbollah's strings. shafique (At the risk of ruining the analogy ... I couldn't resist extending the analogy a bit further) there are rumours that a women's lib movement in a neighbouring house has urged the wife to stand up to the husband. The women in that house have decided not to put up with oppression from their husbands. Some think that the husband's reaction is being tolerated to send a message to any would-be women lib sympathisers. Oh - one other thing - the house the wife lives in belonged to her family and was part of her inheritance. Her husband is now trying to get her to leave and accept that he owns the house and land (he pushed out her cousins who lived in the guest house and who are now camped in the neighbour's garden. The neighbour isn't too happy, and doesn't allow them to put up permanent shelters... but only to live in tents and to help with the gardening. The cousins occasionally look over the fence and shout insults to the husband and sometimes throw rocks at him... the husband is considering jumping the fence and setting fire to the tent...no oops, he has just done that) Ok, I'll stop my literary flights of fancy now... :) Chocoholic Shaf, appreciate what you're trying to do, however I think the analogies are now ditracting from the main topic at hand. shafique :oops: Ok. The news about the revolutionafy guards hasn't made it to the BBC news website yet.. do you have more details? Cheers, shafique mraph33 Plus I can't figure out who is the wife, the father-in-law or the neighbor Chocoholic Google it and the newswires carrying it will apear. Lebanese, Israeli and Egyptian security forces 'allegedly' confirmed reports. shafique Choco - I did Google it (first thing I do these days) and it wasn't yet - but I may have typed republican guard instead of revolutionary guard... hmm, I'll go back and have a look. Mraph - trust me, you aren't alone (just ask anyone who the bad guy is in all this :) ) Chocoholic Recent reports now of several UN peacekeeper observers being killed by an Israeli jet in South Lebanon. Even the peacekeepers aren't safe. Corcovado
so what? iranians are in lebanon ? duh? we all know that israel was planning to do this anyways ....so it doesnt matter who is where ... mraph33 They already reported it this morning....4 were killed shafique Still no news that I could find about the revolutionary guards.. would expect this to be big news. Choco - I thought you were referring to even more UN peacekeepers being killed, rather than the 4 (Canadian, Finnish, Chinese and Austrian) were sheltering in a bunker when they were killed yesterday. Reports today say that the UN General contacted the Israelis to back off before the final bombings that killed the 4 soldiers. To add insult to injury, Israeli jets fired on the UN rescuers going through the rubble! It'll be interesting to see the reaction of Canada, China, Finland and Austria. mraph33 Kofi Annan got upset with the dilliberate attack. Olhmert says that it was an accident.....interesting to see how he explains this one shafique Apparently the UN contacted the Israelis 10 times for them to halt the attack on the observation post BEFORE they killed the guys there. I'm sure they will manage to white-wash the incident, but it will be mighty interesting to see the spin on this. My money is on a straight 'sorry guys... we didn't quite understand the 10 calls telling us to stop bombing UN peacekeepers, my bad' mraph33
I got a prank call like that last night also. Chocoholic Corcovado, what it means is that Iran could also be pulling strings to actively cause unrest in the region. Hezbollah are Iranian anyway, but the fact that there are reports of their special guard actively working in Lebanon is not good news. Apparently according to several reports the Iranians of course are denying involvement of these people, but there a re reports daying the bodies were taken undercover out of the country to Syria. Think of the implications of Iran being there, fighting on Lebanese soil, it would give the U.S. an excuse to have a go at Iran - that's the bigger picture. Princess Banana Hammock The UN was set up by Jews originally and I would take their reporting with a pinch of salt as there are so many rules and regulations to what they can and can't write. I know this as my flatmate works as a reporter for the UN and although his entire office, including himself, are anti Israel, they are not allowed to put across their viewpoint. For me, this would take away the whole point of journalism! Unfortunately, no matter what China, Australia etc say, this war between Israel and Lebanon/Palestine will not end in the forseeable future. Even if all the countries in the world oppose this war in a big way, America has the power to override all of that. ALL countries must agree to end it. And unfortunately China and Australia are riding on the back of America to pull up their economy. Maybe once this is strong enough and they can break away, can anything be done about this, but then it WILL cause world war three. Nostradamus predicted the cause of WW3 would be over the fight of Palestine. He predicted that Muslims would have many knockbacks and would have to struggle but that they would actually win the war at the end... we can only hope. But it is good to see his predictions happening which is more than can be said for his world ending in the year 2000 predictions!!!!! kanelli
Yes, it is an interesting analogy Shaf :D
But you see, I have already said that Israel has over-reacted and what they are doing is terrible. I posted that a few times!
So, to bring it to the selected analogy... If the woman had not slapped her husband, he likely would not have beaten her. One act of physical provocation escalated the situation. That still doesn't mean that the husband should not be punished and accountable for his beating. The wife should have known better than to strike her husband, especially if he is a very angry person and has a history of similar violence.
How did I do? :D
Thanks Fayz, I too think this thread is educational. I like to read and understand other people's perspectives. Good arguments and more info can persuade people to consider new perspectives. mraph33
What??? Princess Banana Hammock Unbelievable but true... mraph33 which jews exactly are you talking about? FDR? Princess Banana Hammock It was set up by Americans during WW2 I think. And lets face it, Israel is just another American state... Why don't the US build a Dubai style state and give ship all the Israelis out there... they have the money to do it. Hell, they give Israel $400 billion a year, surely they can make a damn good state in the Arizonian desert for that much!! America... run by Jews... The American government once had a plan to have the world ruled under one government... do you think that plan is still in place? Because the only resistance to that I can see are a few countries in the ME... mraph33 Jews made the UN....$400 billion/year.....Arizona.....very interesting theories Princess Banana Hammock Arizona is just a nice thought... unfortunatley America wouldn't do it because it's run by Jews and even if they did, Israelis would never accept it. Where else do the Israeli army get their money from for their weapons of mass destruction?? Cos it sure as hell aint Israel as the place doesn't even exsist! It's such a shame, I'd love to work in the U States but the thought of paying American taxes makes me physically sick... The world is trapped in an American bubble. We're ruled by the States. Which is effectively run by Jews... Even the American Secretary of state said 'If the Middle East is not ready to conform then we will have to make it ready.' Hmmm... do I sound Pro Palestine in all this?!?! mraph33 Pro-Palestinian??? I have no problem with a person being pro-Palestinian.....but you sound a bit confused to be honest Princess Banana Hammock I'm not confused. Just angered... and I find it hard to comrehend the amount of power these people have. Shocked even at the realisation of my own words. That the world is ruled by the US. I find it extremely disheartening but there is almost nothing anyone can do. Israel is obsessed with its own image and strives to maintain its racial superiority at all costs. They see any resistance to this imagined superiority as an existential threat. They are protecting themselves against phantom threats. Setbacks enrage Israel and any humiliations madden them. They lash out in crazy ways, and lack any sense of proportion, just to reassure itself of its strength and worth. Israel have no boundaries... geographical or moral. Their attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission and swallow Palestine whole is being thwarted by resilient, dignified Palestinian people who refuse to submit quietly and give up resisting Israel's arrogance. I hope Nostradamus is right and the resilience Palestinians are, quite rightly, showing will eventually be worthwhile... MaaaD
now thats more like it ;) .. leave out that conspiracy theory stuff it doesnt matter anyway. The UN is just as dysfunctional as a 70 year old man in bed.
I am positive we will prevail, they like it or not. mraph33 Yep.....I agree with Madd (except for the part of the 70 year old.....). Leave the conspiracy theories out. I'll think about your 'rant' I'll give a reply to that too. But now you're talking!!! fayz
a very soft and wishy washy 70 year old man at that. they even reneged their comments after their UN Base was destroyed by Israelis
Also 87% of those killed in Lebanon are civilians and 85% of the Israelis killed are Military soldiers, just an interesting fact to ponder especially considering who has the more technologically advanced weapons Corcovado
i love what ur saying ... i have to agree.. i wish theres more people like u shafique A good article on the subject in Gulf News today :
Might Not Always Right:
Thought provoking analysis of the Hezbollah/Israel situation.. Princess Banana Hammock What is important is that the Europeans attempted to send their Jews to South America, then Uganda before deciding on Palestine and the creation of Israel. This is amusing, considering Uganda not so long ago offered the Jews their country as their home. Neddless to say, it was turned down...
Ever since, neither Jews nor Palestinians have seen peace. Wars and bloodshed have been the norm. Destruction never stopped.
If that solution is not viable because of the last 50 years of bloodshed, then perhaps America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which desperately need new citizens and are great supporters of Israel, can accommodate Jews. You see, I think this would be a great idea... But unfortunately Palestine is the key to the resistance to the Jews having world domination. I know it sounds 'Pinky and the Brain' but I believe it's true. It's not like Palestine has a strong economy and plenty of oil to find... so why chose Palestine over Uganda?
The world, and more so, the Jews themselves, must seriously consider alternative solutions to their predicament.
Israel might continue to win battles, but it is very unlikely that it will win the war in the long run. Haha, in come Nostradamus's predictions!!!
Faced with an evolving Arab world of 300 million people and counting, whose antagonism, anger and hatred it provokes, Israel's long term survival is hardly worth taking a bet on.
Interesting article... fayz
Yes you did mention that, I've read it. You’ve also gone as far as saying if Israel went to the UN approved borders there would be peace. I appreciate your views and agree.
I also really like your last comment and agree with that.
I have to believe that “all we are saying is give peace a chance” can one day be more than just a song. :D Corcovado Now this interesting even israelis know they are already losing the war fayz
Jeez, looking at the avatars on that forum site disgust me. Corcovado
yes very true :x :x freza f* = Disgusting and TACKY. It's no secret that the US has a history of anti-semitism and it's still quite existant, but all of that gets conveniently ignored amongst non-Jewish supporters of Zionism. But I honestly prefer to hear people speak what they truly believe in, even if it's racist crap, outright lies and parroting rhetoric, than if they "pretend" to be something they're not. Like some people pretending to be neutral, peace-loving, etc. when it's obvious that they're not. Yeah....WHATEVER. kanelli
So let me get that straight, you are okay with lies, racism, and parroting rhetoric (=spreading propaganda?). Wow, how admirable.
Just because you can't handle anyone who doesn't feel that Americans and Israelis should be wiped off the planet doesn't mean that they are not entitled to their viewpoints. Peace is a bad word to some people, and maybe you are one of them. There isn't much I can do about that. I have condemned Israel and the US for their actions but I guess that is just me "pretending" isn't it. :roll: :lol: Corcovado
yes but kanneli this tells u that the hate is Mutual and they feel the same way about arabs and muslims ... Arabs believe that israel is the source of evil and hate and they are killing our people evryday..while jews and americans think that arabs are terrorists ... Now u can see the big picture kanelli Of course, I know that each side is demonising the other. How else could they stop seeing each other as fellow humans and proceed to kill each other. Demonising on all sides is wrong! I-No-Jack Here is what I think is the problem and solution: IGNORANCE. There are quite a few posters ranting about things from different perspectives but I suspect a lot of it has to do with Ignorance (not to be confused with stupidity). Those who hate Arabs or Jews have probably not dealt much with them on a day-to-day basis. I suspect that many in the forum have met people from all over the world (if in Dubai) and if they care to know where the other person is from will by in large have a positive opinion of that person (and country and religion, etc.). I bet of a lot of the "West Haters" on this forum were either educated or lived in western society and outside of the forum act "western" - just a hunch. But those of you who have met each other could probably confirm what I just wrote! The more people of different races, natianalities, religions, etc. interact with each other, the best the change for peace. shafique I don't think its ignorance that causes hate - sometimes the more informed you are the more you hate the injustices that are carried out. Also, there are many who have absolutely no problem with 'Western' culture and values when it comes to technology, clothing, music etc and have great relations with nationals of America or Europe BUT have a great problem with US/UK foreign policy. Hey, many Americans and Brits have big issues with what their respective governments are doing. Where there is perceived injustice, there is a breeding ground for hatred. Give everyone equal rights and opportunities, and you will find that the preaching of hatred-mongers (on all sides) generally falls on deaf ears. Where there is real injustice that is apparent to all, calls to attack or demonise those who are causing the injustice are like siren calls - very, very hard to resist. Note that the Israeli young conscripts all seem to be very proud to defend their country from their perspective - what do people expect will be the choices of the young Lebanese men who want to do likewise? The answer is patently obvious - join the resistance that drove out the Americans AND the Israelis in the past. I therefore contend that the root of hatred is injustice and not ignorance. If the injustice is only a perceived one and not a real one, then there is an arguement that ignorance is contributing to the hatred, of course, but I would argue strongly that ignorance is not the root cause (certainly not in the case of Israel, Palestine and Lebanon). Just my views, as usual. Princess Banana Hammock I disagree I No Jack. Ignorance is not the problem here, as generally speaking, those who are ignorant do not have an opinion on the matter, nor do they think the situation has an effect on them. Besides nobody is 100% in the know as there are many secret/hidden agendas within governments. So almost all of us are ignorant to some degree... Also it is almost impossible to read every single news piece around the world to define everybody's view on the situation. I have been brought up in the UK all my life and therefore I do "act in a Western way" when it comes to my social skills/life. However, I disagree with the majority of the political policies and ideologies where it concerns the Middle East. I am not a Jew/Israeli hater, but I certainly am not a supporter. But having worked in the Entertainment industry in the UK, I have dealt with many of them on a daily basis. I worked for a comapany for a year which was run by Israeli Jews. I even dated an Israeli Jew who was in the Israeli army in my late teens. Despite that, I still disagree with their state's arrogance and brutality. As for peace, it is unobtainable. People will continue to fight and prevail for what they think is theirs or their right. This has happened since the beginning of time, after all, we are just like any other animal on this planet... Fighting for survival. freza
To put you straight, NO, I am not OK with liars, racism and people that parrot the rhetoric that the US and Israeli admin (and even the softy wannabe left) spew. But I'd rather listen to the TRUE intentions and thoughts of people than their phoniness.
This comment was not meant for you, but you sure took it to heart. Poorly concealed support for state terrorism and blatant bias are everywhere, one just has to open the New York Times to find it there. Anyway, it wasn't for you personally but if the shoe fits, go ahead and wear it, and be proud of it. I personally won't think any less of you or any other person if they were to come out of the neo-con closet.
Am I for peace? Of course. But I'm also realistic. Israel does not want peace; it is more than obvious. The only way to deal with Israel now is to give them a taste of their own medicine...and hope that this finally does work. I-No-Jack
Agree with you particularly with the last full paragraph - and that is my point. I-No-Jack
Actually we agree. I'm sure with your experiences with different people you have different positions (or reasons for them - some personal, some more general). kanelli Freza, don't play games. It is obvious that you were speaking about me and some others who were not saying incredible things about Israel and the US out of passion and anger. Shafique and Jack, I think you are both correct. Injustice is likely the root, but ignorance can play a role as well. I'm definitely one of those people who is not impressed with my government's response and the way it is teaming up with the likes of the US. (Fayz, it really does make me wonder what Chretien would be doing if he was still PM.) mraph33 Injustice is without question a source of hate, but I don't think you can discount ignorance. Racism, bigotry, prejudice - they are all based on ignorance. Princess I don't agree with you the peace is unattainable. If Jordan and Egypt can live mutually in peace with Israel, there is no reason why their can't be overall peace. Even if its a peace with guarded boarders, high walls and barbed wire, its better than war. Corcovado
ok answer this ... how do u expect us to have peace with killers, who stole our country , killing innocence on perpose ,and destroyed our homes ..??
everyday israel kills a minimum of 35 innocent people in palestine and lebanon for no reason ..they abuse their powers..and aim on children and civillians... they built this racist wall in palestine destroying homes and farms in their way coldblooded .. THEY ARE THE NEW NAZIES .. i dont think we are ready for peace. not now not ever ..cos there is so much to forgive and forgivness is the last thing on our minds...PLEASE watch the news. I-No-Jack
The good thing is that while You may not be ready for peace there are millions who must be ready.
If israel, US, UK hate arabs/muslims, how come they are not bombing Dubai, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, egypt, indonisia, pakistan, etc. etc.? I-No-Jack
I'm not 100% right but not as wrong as you are. valkyrie Lebanese lives arent worth much Today's lead story in The New York Times contains a moving quote from Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora: "Is the value of human life less in Lebanon than that of citizens elsewhere? Are we children of a lesser god? Is an Israeli teardrop worth more than a drop of Lebanese blood?" He knows the answer to that; it's yes. With Condi Rice diminishing the value of a temporary cease-fire--which would save the lives of some Lebanese civilians--Washington is clearly saying that there is no value in protecting these civilians killed in Israel's attacks on Hezbollah. kanelli Unfortunately, the question seems to be how many Lebanese civilian lives are worth the destruction of Hezbollah? That is how the US is thinking. They want Hezbollah gone and don't seem to care what needs to be done to achieve that. :( Civials are likely considered "collateral damage". MaaaD as a journalist a few days ago said ... "let the water boil.. and then add rice" MaaaD
What i dont understand in the thinking you just described is that no two politicians/analysts will disagree that with the current strategy i dont see hezbollah anywhere near destruction.
As i type, i am listening to interviews with mums who have lost there young children and the interviewer asked her if she is fed up with the fighting. she said that one of her children is dead, but she would gladly give away the other 3 for the resistance. This kind of resolve amazes me. kanelli Yes, and it goes to show that the USA has their head up their asses again. They want to reshape the politics in the Middle East, wiping out groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. but it isn't going to work. If they try to make something like that work, we will have more extremists, new groups, and possibly WW3. I-No-Jack [color=blue]Here is a radical message that will send shock waves around the world without a single bullet.[/color]
[color=red]All residents of Palestine (west bank & gaza) as well as lebanon should wear concentration camp style suits (white with black stripes) to send a powerful message to the world that suffering is suffering.[/color]
After all, everyoe within the wall built by isreal is in a "concentration camp" - just start wearing the suits and wait and see...
Lebanon and Palestine just do it. Corcovado
i dont like ur attitude :evil: :evil: better to say i dont like anything u say or do :evil: :evil: Chocoholic Corcovado, The point I-No-Jack is trying to make is, how many people have to die and suffer before the world starts listening and comes to their aid. We read about it in the papers everyday, we see it ony the news every minute but what is being done? Nothing! I was appalled at the Press conference with Bush and Blair. With Bush saying that they want a democratic, sovereign state for Lebanon and that this is the only way to do it. This guy is a moron, when will he learn that these countries don't all want to run the same way as the U.S. or UK. They have to sort it out for themselves. fayz Choco you are right there was a huge political debate in the States about Dubai during the whole Dubai ports thing. There was talk about how Dubai needed saving, we were all suffering because there was no elected government. Hmmm I can’t speak for others but I’m happy to live here over the states, there may be problems here, well for sure there are but I think Dubai is a lot less corrupt then the states and I rather have the leadership here over that of the American government. Kanelli, Cretian was never as big US ass licker as Harper, I’m sad to see how our government reacted to the brutal murder of a 13 month old Canadian citizen and also its reaction to the deliberate bombing by Israel of the UN killing another Canadian. I-No-Jack Wait a minute, Didn't the palestinians just democratically elect a priminister but neither Bush nor Blair want him! So this talk about "democracy" is just talk. The reason they repeat the same crap is because most people buy into and the "intellectuals" or those "with something to contribute or who object" can be easily dismissed - sort of like in this forum. nostradamus BEIRUT (Reuters) - shafique I saw the Bush/Blair press conference live - Bush announced that they will help with the reconstruction of Lebanon, including the building of houses. I thought the question by the BBC reporter was good - to paraphrase.. "you have said you would rebuild Lebanese houses, but the question the Lebanese would be asking is when you will tell Israel to stop destroying houses!" He didn't give a straight answer to the question! shafique The news conference is available on the White House web site, text and videio:
Q Mr. President, you spoke of having a plan to rebuild houses in Lebanon. Wouldn't the people of Lebanon rather know when you're going to tell the Israelis to stop destroying houses? MaaaD Isnt it great to see that Saudi, UAE, Bahrain and Oman have spent $5 billion on new military equipment from the US. Way to go guys, fund Israel by proxy. I-No-Jack
No maad I think its a good thing - more should be spent. If lebanon is putting up a resistance with sling shots and firecrackers think of the possibilities :wink: yshimy I know it is late, and i didn't read everything here. Shafique.... They are revealing their plans, it is all business, rebuild iraq, rebuild lebanon, rebuild the middle east... which get me back to the points i want to make. 1) This is all part of trying to "Sell" their idea of new middle east with no resistance. aka. no hizboallah, nor Hamas. 2) FORCE "Democracy" in the middle east. Aka. Puppet governments. 3) Prepare for war on Syria and Iran. Check my posts about Iraq, the plans are moving forward. about point 2) As mentioned above, Election were made in palestine, and people elected a leadership that is no puppet government.... so ... no money, no food and no support from any of the "DEMOCRATIC WORLD" what a hypocracy. about point 3) well, we will see, but i think Hizboallah (god be with them) are doing good and they are doing great harm to Israel and so they plan is not moving as planned. I saw Hassan Nasrallah message on Aljazeera and Almanar, he seemed very resonable and masha'allah very confident and simple. I watched Bush and watched how they even couldn't issue a resolution in the UN to condamn targeting the UN office just because the states didn't agree.... What a hypocratic country that says democracy democracy and they hide behind the vito like a coward hiding behind he big Papa. Anyway, lets hope of less blood shed and more resonable superpower in this cruel world. Blessings to all Lebanese ajb
Why would they give money, food and support for something which they dont get anything out of? Eros
Did u ever doubt it??!!! He has proved his stupidity on numerous occassions. Now i doubt the sanity of the american population for re-electing him!!! mraph33 I lost my faith when they elected him the first time Chocoholic The guy has always been a loser. Yet no-one stands upto him, it's pretty sad really. Corcovado ARE YOU WATCHING TV PEOPLE ??????? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: OH MY GOD THEY KILLED THE BABIES THE INNOCENT CHILDREN OH MY GOD :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Corcovado I cant take this pain anymore ..... where is the humanity ? Chocoholic , Pretty Penny , X-Raw ...Nick .. everyone please open ur TV and Hearts and Watch the terrorism of americans and Israelis .... :cry: :cry: :cry: Today The world turned BLACK .... fayz
AJB.. the Israelis stopped giving the money that was rightfully for the Palestinians i.e. their share of the taxes (Israeli still collects but doesn't give back) and stopped allowing all money into Palestine. Also just to give you one example of many a power plant in Palestine was insured for $46 million, the insurance plan covered everything including acts of war and terrorism. The power plant was destroyed by Israeli forces but since the policy is underwritten by a US company they said they won't give the money to the Palestinians to rebuild nor did they allow the entry of new equipment bought into the country, since Hamas took over, and I was there sharing a hotel with the UN observers who rightfully said there was no manipulation and it was a fair election the world cut all financial ties and started starving the Palestinian people. Corcovado The bomb which was used to kill the women and children in Qana this morning, it was one of those which was transferred from the US to help Israel through the UK. This will give many people a reason to call for more attack on the USA and London. It is now clear that the UK and the USA are partners with Israel killing all those civilians. Corcovado
:cry: :cry: :cry: Sad so sad MaaaD I cant believe the news today Oh, I cant close my eyes and make it go away How long... How long must we sing this song? How long? how long... cause tonight...we can be as one Tonight... Broken bottles under childrens feet Bodies strewn across the dead end street But I wont heed the battle call It puts my back up Puts my back up against the wall Sunday, bloody sunday Sunday, bloody sunday Sunday, bloody sunday Corcovado i think Nostradamos and Mr.and Ms Inquirer and mrph have nothing to say now :evil: :evil: :evil: kanelli Corcs, people are watching the news every day. ade I dont care who started the mayhem but am sure both sides should be sickened by the sight of dead bodies mostly children. It hurts so much;posters should be made of those children and th women maybe then they can see cos am sure 99% of these people hav bad sights. xibit
they would have been better of by purshasing some balls instead ! freza
Amen!! phunkhoney It's shocking! I can't understand how people that are affected by long term violence and war can continue to choose violence as a means to resolve their conflict. I don't understand how the people who supposed to lead a nation, can choose to lead their nation into war and further violence. I-No-Jack
Second/third that :!: Chocoholic As Sun Tzu said in the 'Art of War' written over 2,500 years ago: 'When in peace prepare for war, when in war prepare for peace'. MaaaD Not for the faint of heart, or those who wish to continue be blinded from the truth: for those of you on Etisalat connections try this link: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14258.htm Corcovado
u are sick and twisted ...so u want the world to ignore the crime the bloody israelis did intentionly to kill babies and women and focus on POSING??????????? he is holding the corps of innocent kids u heartless pig :evil: :evil: Corcovado
i know what was really happening it was live on aljazeera u fool.. :evil: and the same man in the pics was crying while talking to the reporters.. i saw everything LIVE so go kill urself please Corcovado
yeah Israel Issues warning and tell people to leave the area which they BOMBED ALL ITS EXITS ...so the people are trapped ...or if they maneged to take a car and run away they bomb the car killing every soul like MARWAHIN ... :evil: :evil: :evil: I wish ISRAEL DIE Corcovado
My F**ing what u bustard evil witch ........???????????????????? kanelli nostradamus is getting exactly the reaction he wants. Stop feeding the troll people! I-No-Jack
thats why i refer to him as nostradumbas$ Corcovado
:lol: :lol: :lol: nostradamus I like to suckle on my father's nipples... Corcovado
u know that we hate u so get the hell out :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: I-No-Jack
u r barking up the wrong tree - i mean house in your case MaaaD
Corcovado: Tanish Ta'ish Monta'ish ;) I-No-Jack
silky smooth Corcovado
okies :lol: :lol: :lol: Corcovado watch this .... SIGNED BY ISRAEL / sniper420 mmmmm sniper420 returns after long leave from politics forum. This ongoing war forced me to open my mouth. Well it';s both side's fault, isreal though is retaliating heavily, now targeting norht of the country. Hezbollah is using civilian buildings to hide and launch attacks. &search=hezbollah Corcovado
with all due respect sniper ALL the targets israel claimed they belong to hezbolla were civillians and they were killed for no reason and the same thing to Qana... i believe u think killing 4 UN soldiers after 10 phone calls was a mistake too ????????? come on u should know better le-serpent-rouge ALL the Israel targets did belong to terrorists and no amount of hezbollox propaganda will change the world’s opinions that Israel is correct in removing terrorists from its land zam And damn my heart is bleeding for Lebanon. It is not my country. I dont know much about their history. I cant say this is justified or not. But why am I crying....just seeing all the dead bodies, the wounded, the children....why? How can they do such thing? This is all conspiracy................a f@kcing waste. :oops: I cant take it anymore...I curse George Bush! :idea: yshimy
Yeah, yeah, so why the Fukc they bombed people in busses leaving the homes in the south (the mohajjareen) ??????
Man, an advice, just fukcing shut up.

Hizboallah propaganda !!!! they are not controlling the CNN and the Media which brainwash world.... right.
It is just a small channel that being broadcasted only to our region...
And..... BTW israel was never able to prove them wrong in any number they provided nor info.. While they keep proving Israel is wrong.
Example: Israel claimed capturing 5 Hizbollah fighters.... mmmm.... well 4 of them are above 50 y.o and hizbollah announced their names, ages and where they work, and dared Israel to show the world the photos of the people they captured to prove that they are trying to cover their losses..
Man, go and hide in your basement. Corcovado
hahahaha i am from baalback and I KNOW the people israel KIDNAPPEd they are CIVILLIANS ..but do u expect from stupid cowards... israel lost the battle and thats why they are going everywhere killing babies and helpless children ..Honey wake up we ALL know now WHO THE TERROSRIST IS :evil: :evil: :evil: and do u know that 90 % of the world population think that israelis are murderers for what they're doing in lebanon? GO TO HELL U AND UR COUNTRY ..."the country that u stole and killed their people PALESTINE " Corcovado
thank u for ur honest feelings ..the people of lebanon needs people like u yshimy Hehehehe see that is what israel is made of HATRED. Corco, Don't feed the fire and let this poor guy go and fcuk himself somewhere else, ignore his posts. kanelli Corcs, yshimy - don't feed the trolls! Only losers with too much time on their hands want to come and upset people in serious threads like this one. Don't waste your time on such losers. :wink: mraph33 The funniest thing about this guy from "Isreal" is that he can't even spell the name of his country right kanelli Just because they are not using equal firepower does not mean they are not equally responsible for the conflict itself. To make it seem that Hezbollah have been little angels for decades is ludicrous. Nick81
*cracks fingers*
Let's analyze the personality of this jackass. Sure he's not worth it but I've got time on my hands this morning and I just feel like it.
- Le Serpent Rouge. No comment. What you chose a cliche nickname to give yourself an enigmatic side? Someone read the Da Vinci Code one time too many.
- What kind of person would sign in on a public forum for the ONLY purpose of pissing ppl off. Probably a guy who's been bullied all his life in school and has developed poor social interaction skills out of this. I can't feel anything but pity towards ppl like you. I hope someday I get to cross the border between Israel and Lebanon and have a lengthy discussion with you and try to knock some sense into your big, empty head. But of course this will only happen if some people, unlike you, use their brain cells to actually contribute to finding a solution to this situation, to actually work to move humanity forward.
You sir, are a parasite. I am sorry I have to resort to name-calling, but it's really not that. Try opening a dictionary and looking up the definition of a parasite. You'll see that you fit the profile of a parasite quite well.
I would advise you stay away from these forums unless you actually have something to say. Pissing ppl off will get you nowhere, except maybe make you look even more miserable and pathetic if this is even possible. arniegang I will echo Fayz's sentiments earlier, in thanking everyone with the exception of the few in maintaining good debate and decorum in this thread. I have deleted all the usual suspects offending posts. Note to All Could i please ask everyone, that when the trolls/arseholes post their usual offensive crap, could you please refrain from "quoting" the text within your own posts, it makes my job a lot easier in deleting the crap and not having to edit. Thanks everyone and a special thanks to X for keeping a close eye on this thread in my absense. Appreciated and a good job done mate. Ok to conclude, now im back, any crap or offenseive shit in here will be deleted without any further warning. Nick81
Nice comeback. Your mommy help you come up with it? Corcovado
ur such a jerk :evil: but again evry israeli is :twisted: :twisted: chevaliers-de-sion She was O.K! :wink: :wink: freza When it comes to misspelling Israel I prefer the misspelled but applicable: Isra[color=blue]steal[/color] yshimy Is-real? No it Isn'treal :D freza
it's Israsteal as in stealing...Israel steals land, get it? Corcovado till this moment i cant believe that the world is letting this war to happen :shock: :shock: wheres UN? whats wrong with this planet .. people are dying everyday and israel is the innocent part :shock: :shock: ladies and gentlemen we are living in a mad world ..which i am not bringing any children to ........ yshimy Corcov, UN is helpless organization, they couldn't even issue an official statment to "blame" Israel on bombing their own force...!!!!! It is not the first time. When they wanted to attack Iraq for claiming it possess WMD despite that the International Atomic Energy Agency IAEA report didn't prove that , and UN decided not to attack, the USA said... wel... I'm doing it with my follower the UK.... and Attacked Iraq with security council approval.. UN is helpless, and it just a tool that sometimes work for the good of the US and sometimes it is just not working at all.. USA talks about democracy and hide like a coward behind the VETO. ciao Corcovado
i guess i am a dreamer , or i still believe in humanity :cry: freza To state that this war is equal and balanced on both sides is beyond ludicrous. Corcovado
going to my happy place la la la :twisted: Corcovado Israeli army wants the people if saydon to leave the city but they bombed all the exits of the city and there are 250.000 people there with no place to go .. there will be a new Massacre in lebanon signed by Israel :cry: :cry: :cry: i am so worried about my country :cry: :cry: :cry: yshimy
Sadly you will make me say bad things.
But.... i'm German Egyptian
My grand fathers who are german, ... well, i think you know what they did :D
my Grand fathers who are Egyptian... hehe Youm Kuppur.. does it ring a bell???? Goldamair crying on the phone???? mmm if not the USA i would might have been chatting now from Quds of Palestine and israel would exist as it did in 1948.... mmm i mean.... not there in the map.
well, i think we don't need the UN ;)
BTW, Hizbollah just declared they will hit Tel aviv,... you better find a shelter boy...
die troll die Nick81
:lol: :lol: You're such a douche Serpent. Why don't you crawl back to the hole you came from.
God, we need some way to restrict forum access to people under a certain IQ level :roll: Chocoholic Don't feed the troll. Yshimy, it's not nice to wish death to anyone. Plus have you seen what Hezbollah are using? Rockets which carry upto 50,000 ball-bearings, which are used to maim rather than kill - horrific! Going round and round like this is never going to find a solution. Corcs, I hope you're ok! As I've said before the whole situation is mad, and I'm appalled that no-one is forcing Israel to stop what it's doing. It all seems so pointless. freza Plus have you seen what Hezbollah are using? Rockets which carry upto 50,000 ball-bearings, which are used to maim rather than kill - horrific!
[color=darkblue]And the problem with this is....???[/color] :twisted: freza I'm still in shock by the Hezbollah missile comment ... but it's also quite funny. Incredible what some people say! :)
This is an interesting article:
Mideast Weapons Deserve Scrutiny
Corcovado, I honestly do not know what to say to someone in your situation. I think many of us in this forum feel the same, at a loss for words. I hope your family finds a way to get out of Lebanon and onto a safe place soon. kanelli I've given up this debate. The people pointing out the hypocrisy of the weapons and tactics used by BOTH sides, and wanting EACH side to be accountable for their actions - will not be listened to. Some people posting in this thread only want Israeli blood. freza Oh you, the one that pulled a George Bush and wriggled yourself out of giving a straight answer to a very simple question (which MS asked). That's a bit shameful, to evade questions like that ...
Your posts are pretty much the same thing too. Tolerance, tolerance, yeah I GOT IT. Tolerance for a racist, terrorist, blood-thirsty illegal state that is once again brutalizing people. No thanks. I have no tolerance for Zionism and its agenda and I make no apologies for it. I don't hide what I believe in, do you? Ah obviously, what am I saying.
I've read the the FAIR report, UN and HRW documents - they do criticize Hezbollah, fair and expected enough, but interestingly they state the obvious - that IDF is doing far worse damage than Hezbollah. And it is hiding in Israeli civilian areas. I bet that you didn't read that part?
edit: btw, I don't believe in American/Zionism conspiracies, don't put words in my fingers tips. I believe in American/Zionism reality . arniegang FREZA This is your first and final warning - tone it down or i will delete your posts. Thanks Mod. freza what exactly was out of tone mr. moderator??? Corcovado
want Israeli Blood?????? put urself in our shoes for a moment ...imagine ur country being invaded 20 years ago by a force that started killing ur people and destroying their homes ...and then resistance was formed to protect ur country "hizbulla"in lebanon case ...and when they maneged to kick it out after 20 years ..the invader kept prisoners and a piece of ur land ...trying to get ur prisoners back home ""since UN is helpless" u kidnapped two...and then what the enemy "ISRAEL" did was by destroying ur country AGAIN and killing civillians on porpose cold blooded ..1000000 lebanese people are homeless now , thousands have no homes to go back to ... Hezbolla is our resistance force... think twice kanelli ...its not about us wanting Israeli blood ...its about israelis sheding lebanese blood every minute :? Corcovado
excuse me arnie i dont think her tone was wrong and u have no right what so ever to tell her this ...she is defending her opinion which is her right and she didnt offend any one so please be fair mraph33
Hey a George Bush!!! Now you've added a noun to all the adjectives that you've been calling me.
Fortunately, my actions speak much louder than your words .
While I have met others like you in my travels and work for peace, fortunately there are still many who are looking for ways to make the world a better place. Tolerance, means amongst other things, tolerance for others' ideas - which you have absolutely none, which is approximately the level of your etiquette as well.
And once again, you have tried to catagorize my criticism of Hezbollah and support of Israel, which indeed it isn't. While you and Corc may see them as the defenders of Lebanon, they are view by others (primarily from the Christian community) in a much less favorable light.
There will be peace in the middle-east, because the only other option is that there will cease to be a middle east.
You can be one who actively promotes the process or you can continue to be one that verbally promotes violence. In my mind... THAT is shameful. yshimy Choco, "Plus have you seen what Hezbollah are using? Rockets which carry upto 50,000 ball-bearings, which are used to maim rather than kill - horrific! " I'm not surprised to see you say that..... Well hope you talk to Uncle SAM (USA) to give Hizbollah weapons so they don't have to put ball-bearings inside. And yeah, Israel put toys and cutions inside their bombs that are signed by their children. mraph33, Tolerance.... well yeah, easy to say from outsider. I try to put it in simple terms each time and noone listen or just ignore to listen. Israel didn't exist before 1948 (yes and UAE too) but Israel too the lands of Palestinians (UAE didn't) then they want to get bigger as they think (and this is declared by them) that more land, means more security. so they go and attack Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt. So what tolerance you want us to do???????? to give our lands, to forgive our parents, brothers, sisters, and children blood and honor? I don't think so. If a bully came to your house, attack your family and you are there with them... if you attacked this guy, tried to make him stop and he didn't, tried to push him out of the house, but he wouldn't and then ended up killing him after he (sorry really to make it that personal) attack your children (i hope this never happen to anyones family and sure not yours may god keep your family safe allt he time) so you ended up killing him in self defence...... Would this make you a TERRORIST?????? you would be INTOLLERENT????? please, give us a break. Freza, and corcov. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't understand what we are fighting for.... We are there and our friends and families even suffered or are still suffering.. May God bless us all and give strength to the rightful MS I think Freza expresses her opinions in a very eloquent and objective way. I don't see anything wrong with her tone, and the moderator's comment is very surprising!!!!!!!! mraph33
The fact that the state didn't exist doesn't mean there were no Jews there.
And if you go back 2000 years there were Jews there and not Muslims, does that mean anything today?
You can try all you want to deligitimize Israel, but it exists. So as I said to Friza: you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. kanelli See, my point is made. Chocs, Mraph - it is a losing battle trying to talk any sense here. Freza, you are one of the most arrogant and patronising people I have met on this forum in a while. I wonder how much worse you'll get after another 23 years of life experience. :lol: My posts make clear that I am aware of both perspectives. As I said, just because I won't agree to the genocide of Israeli people does not mean that I support what they are doing to their Arab neighbours. I would never have planned to make Israel exist - I am just a realist that it DOES exist. So, you calling me a Zionist is incorrect. So, no further discussion from my end - it would be a waste of time. Chocs and Mraph, you should consider the same. Just let this be the venting and "genocide to Israel" thread for those who are very upset. We can only hope that when they calm down they won't be still calling for a group of people to be wiped off the planet. mraph33 Yep Kanelli....I'm with you Corcovado
well as a person who studied archeology i can safely say that the land 2000 years ago belonged to kenaanis .the Ancestors of lebanese people and syrians and some palestinians ..not jews ..so stop making excuses for invading please Corcovado
i once wanted peace ...and i thought israel is here and we dont need to have deplomatic relations with it , and altso no war and alot of people felt the same but when this happened in lebanon it showed to alot of peace believers that israel wants war and lives on killing shamefuly cold blooded and then pretend it was an honest mistake 1000 CIVILLIAN is an honest mistake :shock: yeah , yeah ... our dream of peace has vanished the moment the whole world knew who is the murderer and who is the victim. shafique My perspective is that once a point of view has been expressed, and clarified where necessary, there is little point in going over the same ground again. Whilst there is a need to vent frustrations - internet forums are not the best places for this. There has been a lot of heat in this thread recently which unfortunately detracts from the common theme shared by most - that of empathy and disgust at the killings of innocents. At the end of the day, none of us here can influence one little bit the outcome of this unfolding tragedy - other than what our actions alone can achieve. It is futile trying to get someone else to agree to everything from your perspective - each is entitled to their own views at the end of the day. If we focus on what we agree on, then the differences do (in my opinion) are actually minor. I wish everyone can enjoy a life that is not marred by violence or injustice - i.e. peace and justice for all. yshimy Shafique,
thanks for being "as always" the voice of wisdom.

I would like to note that i was just feeding the troll replying to this israeli guy.
Other than that, i dont' think anyone here (or me atleast) is asking for killin all israelies or doing a genocide.
all we want is the land back to palestinians, and people of israel go back to where they came from, weather it is Russia, Europe, States, or Africa.
Asking for a Genocide will make us as bad as them.
Before Israel, jews were living in peace in the middle east, i know 2 sinegog (Jewish temple) in Cairo, as they were living there in peace until israel came in place and declared that their land is the one between the rivers "carved on thier general assembly" which is very hostile statment.
Judism is the oldest "heavenly religion" as we belive as muslims, and if we said jews where here and there, then,,, they existed everywhere in the world as there were no other religion (heavenlt) during these ages.
But as far as i'm concerned, since the civilized countires bounderies came in place, there was no israel, i'll not get into the history of how israel was formed.
Anyway, again i'm saying, We or at least ME don'twant anyone to get killed, we need the land back to palestinians and Jews can live there or anywhere else in peace as they did before. alexandra
what's in that video is a outrageous but it points out the most important issue: while The BLack Devil (C.RIce) smiles and while kissing USA AS$ T. Blair remains silent INNOCENT PPL DIE just for a bunch of crazy ppl who dare to start a massacre for their own ego!
my heart and all my compasion goes to lebanese ppl and may God give them strenght to overcome this while they cry burying their victims. i feel sorry for all the babies that were killed in Lebanon and Israel as well, for the widows, and mothers, for fathers from both countries it's must be unbearable!
the real bomb that kills is the hate between ppl that go on is this stupid fight and have no ideea that LIFE is more important than anything!
NOTHING can justify killing innocent civilians!!!!
:evil: Corcovado who said anything about killing isarelis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please check who is doing the killing? alexandra
corcovado, with all due respect for ur views an opinions i think it's unfair to talk only about the lebanese victims, there r victims as well in Israel
i am not taking sides in here, i did not blame Lebanon for what's going on!
i was talking about " innocent ppl" civilians who carry no guilt in all this crap!
and if it all goes down to politics than i Blame ISRAEL&Co (USA and UK) for all that's happening, but my point was that we don't have to hate the civilians but to blame and hate THE GOVs of the states who r involved!
hope i made myself clear and u will get my point this time! Corcovado
yee alexandra :P i wrote this to answer kanelli and mraph cos they 're saying that we want all israelis dead :evil: Mr & Mrs Inquirer What about the civil war going on in Iraq...while all the people's eyes are concentraiting in Israel-Lebanon, we have the doble of casualties right now in Iraq. Chocoholic Freza, Your last post is just silly seeing as at some point or another in this thread, you, Yshimy and Corcovado have all said you'd like to see people in Israel die! Also you all missed my point regarding the Qana bombing, and that in fact Hezbollah had been launchign rockets from this site, however the Sky news footage showed that the building which was being used for the launch of weapons and the one Israel actually hit were different, the one being hit was a civilian building which we all know, and which Israel admitted they'd made a mistake - no excuse - but something you all conveniently forgot and did not see or hear of all the facts. Once again, no-one here agrees or accepts Israels reaction, but what I abhore is people callig for others to be murdered as you only make yourselves part of the problem. Also, to compare things 2000 years ago is ridiculous! Man has conquered other lands as soon as he was able to. To just look at Israel and Palenstine and that region is very narrow minded. How many countries today are in their original form that they were 2000 years ago. It's irrelevant. The point is these states exist whether you like it or not. The question is now how do you get them live together. And as Kanelli and Mgraph, I will no longer post in this topic either, so you can all carry no spreading your hatred. kanelli Read the thread through and you will see that people were saying that Israel and Israelis should die, especially Corcovado. Yshimy's comment came from another thread and he has since clarified. I don't accuse people of things that are not plainly visible. As I said before, people are upset about the current situation and might have said things in anger. I truly hope that no one believes that Israel and Israelis should be wiped out. Freza, you say I'm... Self-righteous? Maybe - but then we'd also have that in common. Insincere? Not in the slightest. :lol: You would be wise to lose the attitude that you are so much smarter than everyone else and your opinion is the "correct" one. That kind of arrogance doesn't go well around here. FYI, not everyone here thinks that the Arab-Israeli conflict is the most important subject for them to focus on. The world is a large place and there are many important issues. Corcovado
our hatred???????????????? we are sharing our pain and anger from a situation where our people are dead and killed and u say HATRED? shame on u :evil: Shame on u ... i Corcovado
i dont blame u , cos u wouldnt understand ..its not ur home that is destroyed and not ur family living in a park ...not ur kid shattered in half.. i dont blame u i just wish u insight kanelli Here we go again... :roll: Chocoholic That's still no excuse for some of the things that you guys have said. As I have said before HATE is a very strong word and to wish others dead in retaliation makes you no better than Israel or Hezbollah. Shame on me? Shame on you for not being able to rise above it, and wishing hurt and blame on other innocent people who are no more to blame than those in Lebanon. Corcovado
no not again ..i thank u for ur sympathy and i dont expect u to understand the way we feel seeing our country destroyed .. i am in jordan now living in a house of 20 relatives escaped lebanon and have no place to go and survived the bombing by pure luck .... thank u kanelli XRW-147 We should all be showing support and human compassion in times like these. Things are very trying and emotional but bickering at one another will do nothing ladies. Chocoholic For a person to let themselves be consumed with hatred and anger and to what to enact revenge just shows weakness and an avoidance for a solution. Because of course it's just much easier to blow your enemy to bits than to sit and talk to him and try to live peacefully. You guys can take your anger and use it in a negative, disfunctional way. Or you can use it in a positive way. We all appreciate that you're upset and hurting however at the moment all the horrid things you guys say just serve to be destructive both to yourselves and everyone else. Nuff said. Corcovado
800 civillians died 50% of them are children , in israel 10 civillians died and 2 kids and the rest are soldiers ... we dont want kids to die but please put ur anger on the murders who are killing our children not us .. kanelli I have given sympathy, and I try to understand. Nothing like that has ever happened to my family. In any case, I wouldn't wish the same thing on other people's families. Corcovado
ur so stubborn .... i dont want to convice u ... think what u want and please dont pretend that u have any idea about my feelings cos u dont....
ENOUGH SAID Chocoholic Convince me of what Corcs, that the things you say are justified? I have friends who I talk to everyday whose families are in the same situation as yours, but not one of them has said anything like the things you have said. Again you brand and entire nation as murderers, well is the entire nation responsible? No it is not! It is their misguided Government. We all have compassion for those who're suffering. But it's not about numbers and how many have died on either side, the point is innocents are dying and just one, is one too many. Corcovado
my parents cant come they are stuck in a country they cant leave there is no fuel no food nothing ...and u say HATE ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am so tired so leave me alone arniegang
I am tired of the constant accusion and use of the term Zionist and i am tired of the constant angry words and personal abuse in here.
With respect Corcs you may be be of the opinion that she is not offending anyone, but i mod this forum and i also have EVERY RIGHT to make MY opinion.
Defend or challenge opinions by all means, but i want it done here with "respect".
I am not going to debate these issues further. If i see anything i feel is inappropriate in my opinion, or i have "pm's" expressing concern, i will just delete the post.
If the general angry tone and personal stuff continues i will lock this thread. It is starting to go around in circles now. Shaf made a fair summary a few pages ago.
If there is anything here that isn't clear or anyone does not understand, then please pm me. Chocoholic Corcs, anyone of us would willingly help and support you. However I don't tolerate comments from people such as Inquirer and Nostrodamus, so I won't tolerate them coming from the other side of the fence either - that wouldn't be fair now would it? If some of you guys want to carry on spreading messages of hatred, then perhaps do it somewhere ele as it serves no purpose here, when the rest of us are having good discussions and debates. freza Corcovado,
I am starting to think that it's useless to argue with some of these people. (I still don't understand why people are allowed to accuse some of us of hatred and of wanting genocide for Israeli's, this not only being ridiculous but untrue .)
I think that some of the animosity found here boils down to outsiders, usually Westerners, thinking that they know best no matter what. It's what you see in the Middle East after all; outside interference by governments that think they know best for the region, yet they understand little of it. It's been reported that Bush didn't even know that there are two major sects in Islam before the Iraq invasion! And the blunders his administration committed in the region were not only caused by unabated greed but by a lot of ignorance. The same is happening with Israel, Israel thought that it could annihilate Hezbollah in a few days, if not hours, little did they know...
I think that what we see here is a bit of projection: People projecting their arrogance and superiority and a "we know best, what is good for YOU people" type of attitude. Funny that we, the ones with opposing views, are being called arrogant, it's ironic actually... Chocoholic No Freza, you're wrong in your assumptions. Many of us have vast experience of living in the Middle East and well understand the issues here. We do not accuse people of anything, but you have said such things, it's in black and white in this thread! As I said it's not tolerated of others bashing YOU guys from the likes of the others I've mentioned, so therefore why should we not ask you also to refrain from making such comments - fairs fair! For you to falsely brand others on the forum just goes to show how little you know of anyone here, so in actualy fact it's you who is the arrogant one, thinking you know everything. The rest of us have given up trying to explain our views to you as you're just not open minded enough to accept that there are other views apart from yours. kanelli Freza, Corcs and I know each other in person. Trying to pull an "us" vs. "them" won't work. She knows I am supportive and understanding, even if critical of certain language used in anger. It is highly illogical to point out George Bush not knowing the two Islamic factions before invading Iraq as an example of how some of us on the forum are ignorant about Middle East affairs. First of all, that story may not even be true, but most of all - we are not George Bush! I don't appreciate the West stereotyping again. Freza, some of what you have posted has been very good, but it is the arrogant tone you have posted that is so repulsive. As well, you insist that you are right and have no tolerance for differing opinions or analysis. You know what - you are a 23 year old and not a Middle East expert that is being booked on all the major news channels. Even then, an expert wouldn't treat others like they are idiots just because they aren't as expert as he/she is. You should learn a little more respect when posting. freza As seen in Beirut...

Chocoholic Image doesn't show. kanelli Those are good! They show when I view the thread Chocs, don't know why you can't see them. Chocoholic I don't know either. But what's the point of posting when someone viewed the thread? kanelli
:?: arniegang Right Guys and gals
I am only going to say this once.
I want EVERYONE to post here with respect. I have no issue with free speech or people making their opinions. I do however have a problem with how it is portayed on here.
I will not tollerate any form of personal insults or personal jabs at other individual or groups.
If you cant get your point over without making it personal or offensive, then do not post at all.
IF i see any of the above i will lock the thread for a second time and it will remain locked.
Disclaimer.
This post is addressed to everyone , it is not my intention to address or apply it to any particular individual. freza (thanks for opening this thread again arnie)
Some of you might want to watch George Galloway's interview as seen on Sky News (it's really quite interesting):
XRW-147
FYI, I've had to lock this thread previously for the very same reason so there will be no charm for the third offence. Rami
why do you keep repeating this "do you have a country line" ?? i understand you are someone "funny" who says alot of jokes, so is that another joke or do you mean it? and do you mean Palestine?? if you really do then kos okhtak! you know what does that mean? we don't have a country? we do, it's in our souls, hearts, minds, and our homes are there, and those of us who don't live in our country will do someday inshallah, and you know what? we are so proud to be from there, unlike you, EDITED WORD, GUESS IT. alexandra
thanks for the link freza it was quite interesting and the most objective point of view (in my opinion). i think more ppl should watch this! freza r
alexandra,
I agree - this should be watched by more people. Even though Galloway is a controversial figure, his views on this war are undeniable: Some in the mainstream media are not only being very biased but are distorting facts. arniegang I too have watched this video. I have to say he gave them a run for thier money. GG, you either love him or hate him - personally i think we need more MP's like him prepared to stand up and actually say what they think. I will let you into a little secret. I happen to know personally a very very senior figure currently back in the Whitehouse, but works for the US Govt in UAE. In confidence he has told me that the VAST majority on Capitol Hill actually disagree with Bush, but no one like Galloway is prepared to stand up and say so. I firmly believe the same exists with our own MP's in the UK. Rami George Galloway is a hero no doubt, i love how this guy put things together, i respect him so much and i really admire his power, big up GG, and plus, my close friends the british undeground hiphop band the unpeople, always quoting him and his true words, big up :D. alexandra
see freza the thing is that to be objective u have to listen and to collect informations from the both parts involved in the conflict-this is how i see things- (this is in general)
now when it comes to the topic in here i think ppl should do the same before speaking up, come with insults against nations(civilians) instead of blaming the real responables :their GOV, the UN etc
i mean why all this hate is being generalized into phrases like "israel must die"---sometimes somebody has to die in order to have peace but i think that this war is unfair, an abuse , a threat to world peace and it shows only that life is a joke for the GOvs, and civilians are pupets with no rights whatsoever in this crap what they call war!
this is only my point of view and as much as i could be wrong in some aspects i could be right in some others! Nick81
Rami next time you want to "answer" one of my posts don't make a topic out of it. There's a reason people use PMs. Unless you are trying to prove something in front of others, which is pretty lame in my humble opinion.
I have said my piece on Hezbollah and I won't say it again. You can question it all you want but don't you ever question my patriotism or love for my country and countrymen. When you don't know someone the best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut (that being said without meaning to offend you) or at least try to understand the other's position. Thus the possibilty of using PMs to contact me so we can discuss this matter in detail.
Your topic was just a childish attempt at answering my posts. Nothing more, nothing less. Rami nick81, i saw your MSN and i wanted to take it and talk to you, after i posted my topic i questioned my self to delete it or not and i couldn't, and i didn't want to edit it, at the moment i read your post i was so carried out at some points you mentioned, i didn't mean to offend you at all, and i'm sorry if you felt like that, and it wasn't a childish try or anything, you just said something unacceptable to me, and this post was so filled, and i didn't want to post it, if you are free, and would like to discuss this i'm more than happy to do it, and about the post, if you think it's offending i'm sorry but this's my opinion... Nick81
No problem. You could've just PM'd me and said u disagreed with me. If I resorted to name calling and exploded everytime someone said something unacceptable around me I would've died of a heart attack a long time ago. You just need to learn how to deal with other ppl's opinions no matter how different they are than yours. It's not like my opinion is going to change your life... freza
:shock:
I would love to know who that US government figure is...
The US Democratic party has let itself go - it's become servile and has reduced itself to something that is undistinguishable from the mainstream Republican party. So one can't expect much from the "moderate" Republicans themselves. The Neo-cons hold way too much power and control, despite their enormous blunders. I've read that a recent power struggle has emerged involving the most die-hards of Neo-Cons and other Republicans and that even Condi Rice is slowly being undermined. I don't know how much of this is true though...
Yeah, in the US Congress and in US politics in general, there is currently no one that even comes close to Galloway's methods of standing up for the truth in such a defiant way and without fear. It's really too bad. freza
Alexandra,
I agree with you on the most part. But I want to clarify some things: I'm speaking for myself only on these issues: I do not hate Israel, but I hate it's politics, as much as I hate George Bush's politics. This does not mean that I am consumed my anger or that I want death for Israel, I have never said this, and it would be very silly for me to think this. I bet many people here hate George Bush - yet they're not accussed of being irrational and angry. Also, I do keep up with the "other side" of the news and view both side of a story. Just because my opinion is strongly worded (according to some) does not mean I lack objectivity when reaching my conclusions. One last thing; I believe that the power of "the people", of ordinary citizens, should never be undermined. Citizens can sway governments and can change the course of history. I find it unfortunate and telling though, that the the vast majority of Israeli citizens are supporting this war. alexandra freza i respect ur opinion as much i respect anybody's. and it happens that i agree with most u posted in here, only that on some point of the debate things got "in flames" to put it that way.and if ur opinion is based on knowing the both sides story than u might be one of the few who r not a media "pupet" who believe that pigs can fly if it's broadcasted by CNN :roll: what i want to underline is that i did not say/assume that u hate Israel civilians nor i did say that u wish death to them. what i saied it was not directed to u but to those who did say that or to those who think so! hope u get exactelly what i mean now! Concord Well folks, Here are my 2 fils (as in Dubai) After countless pages here is my "analysis" and opinion for whatever it is worth. 1. Lionheart = no changing his mind, perhaps been lacked in the basement, or attic for too long without any exposure. 2. Freza = too young and simply spouting "beliefs" without much tought 3. Corcovado = understandibly emotional but a bit way off on the total hatred aspect but under the circumstances undertandable. 4. Nick81 = pained yet keeping his head above board and contributing in a meaningful way. 5. Choco = admire her commitment and thought process which is neither belligerent nor offensive although objectionable to some above but in a way that she will not be offended by the responses as she respects other's opinions. 6. Kanelli = middle of the road and "on the ball" if everone thought the same way the world would be a better place. 7. Nostradamus, Mr. & Mrs. Enquirer and Serpent "something" = before you have the urge to respond just hit your head on the wall you will get more satisfaction and a less painful response. 8. Marph33 - smart and provacative - somewhat of a jewish slant but I supsect only to provoke. 9. Maad = someone with both the arab and western perspective as well as a sense of humor to make a difference. 10. Sheriwadi = see #9 execpt a bit more serious. Everyone else including mysel just intermeddlers. Then again, who the hell made me the "analyst". arniegang
thanks to both of you, for showing us an excellent example of disagreeing with dignity and respect.
respect A64Venice
Thats true, the red-neck republicans are in power till atleast the next us election. They represent conservative american's stance for an aggresive foreign policy with complete disregard for any other nation's opinion or values, except for Israel.
Bush is a Jew lover and so was his dad. :wink: chevaliers-de-sion [quote="Concord"]Well folks,
Here are my 2 fils (as in Dubai)
After countless pages here is my "analysis" and opinion for whatever it is worth.
save your money you will need it . :D Concord Sorry bud I got more money than you can imagine. If you don't beleive me "I'll show you mine" if "you show me yours" so shut up!!!!!!!!! chevaliers-de-sion A Reuters photograph of smoke rising from buildings in Beirut has been withdrawn after coming under attack by American web logs. The blogs accused Reuters of distorting the photograph to include more smoke and damage. The photograph showed two very heavy plumes of black smoke billowing from buildings in Beirut after an Air Force attack on the Lebanese capital. Reuters has since withdrawn the photograph from its website, along a message admitting that the image was distorted, and an apology to editors. Concord
ok alexandra
and the point was?????? :? mraph33 I like GG's liberal politics, but I lost a lot of respect for him for being on Saddam's payroll. Makes him no different than any other politician. freza
ok alexandra, thanks for clearing things up too; understood. :wink: nostradamus Olmert starts firestorm by saying after war victory there may expedite "realignment" :( shafique mraph - what led you to believe that Gorgeous George was on Saddam's payroll? I used to work with Iraqi Kurds in the early 90's and remember that GG was one of the few MPs that spoke out against Saddam's treatment of Iraqis - but at the time Saddam was the darling of the west. Rumsfeld met with Saddam more times than GG - Rumsfeld was selling arms, George was in Iraq trying to save children's lives with the Miriam foundation. I'm not a member of the GG fan-club - but I have to say, he speaks more sense than most politicians I've come across. cheers, Shafique freza shafique, mraph33 just didn't want to address what Galloway had to say... nostradamus To stop the conflict between Israel and terrorists why can`t the league of Abs sort this conflict out? shafique Nostradamus - good idea. Israel should reall sort out the terrorists who are slaughtering hundreds of Lebanese children, but I fail to see how the Arab league can sort out the internal issue between the State of Israel and the terrorists doing the killing and terrorising two nations.
Oh, hold on, you may be referring to another group of 'terrorists'... let's see ...I can't think why the Arab league isn't doing more to sort out the hostilities as you say. I presume you mean they should perhaps stop selling oil to the US until it tells Israel to stop shelling and perhaps also persuade the US to stop supplying the bombs that are killing the lebanese?
The Arab league have little sway over Iran (as Iran is not an Arab country) [is Iran part of Arab league? mental note - check to see] - so they can't do much about Hezbollah - oh, I get it, perhaps they can issue a decree telling Hezbollah to stop firing at the Israelis and stop provoking them by mainly killing soldiers.
Perhaps the Arab league could persuade Palestinians and Lebanese to forget about any illegal occupations of their lands (by illegal, I mean international law). They could also persuade them to forget about thousands of prisoners languishing in Israeli jails - why make a fuss?
Or did you have another role for the Arab league in this conflict?? nostradamus shafique- are you saying the "Arab league” are just a bunch of old woman with no power and you need the west to sort out your problems zam This region doesnt have the balls! I just need to say that for the record. Everybody is pointing fingers to the cause of all this but are they doing anything to stop the riot? :( shafique Nostradamus - I recommend you read the thread linked to below to see what the cause of the problem is, and then perhaps we can agree on the solution - which, come to think of it, I have already voiced in another thread about what the solution is..
I hope you don't mind me not feeding the troll. :) freza
Yup the red-neck republicans definitely have the power and the reigns of decision making. The only ones that seem to benefit from this power are certain US companies and Israel (because the US economy is not seeing any real benefits at this moment).
However I would not call the Bush clan "Jew-lovers" I truly don't think that they like any other faith besides their born-again Christian faith. I think that they are opportunists who see a reflection of their ambitions in the zionist movement. MS I am addresing Chocoholic and Kannelli (maybe I should address others as well, but I am more familiar with your posts). There is no doubt that you care about the dead and the wounded. I do respect this humaniatrian concern. On the political side, however, you don't give a sh*t if Lebanon is destroyed or not. You don't give a sh*t if there is a Palastenian state or not. On the contrary, you would like to see the Palastenians "move forward", and establish homes (or maybe a country) somewhere else. This won't work. What I wanted to tell you that it is not just about living without getting hurt. Muslims/Arabs also have their own political agenda and set of interests. Now, the leaders are too weak to do anything. But this won't last. We will definitely push our interests forward. If we don't, our children will. If they don't, their chidlren will. freza MS :thumbleft: Chocoholic MS, Where the hell did that come from? Of course we care that Lebanon is being destroyed, it's a place that I really like to visit. And no I would not like to see the Palestinians moved out either - don't put words in our mouths, you haven't got a clue what we think. nostradamus A Hizballox-based mortar attack, which fell short of its target in Israel on Sunday and injured three Chinese members of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), has received scant media attention and no reaction from U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan.
Late last month, after four U.N. peacekeepers were killed in an Israeli air strike in southern Lebanon, Annan said he was "shocked and deeply distressed" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the outpost.
While information about Sunday's incident was not immediately available from the United Nations in New York, news accounts in China reported that "A Hizballox rocket hit the Chinese contingent headquarters at 11:55 am local time causing three peacekeepers [to be] lightly injured," according to a text report from China's Xinhua News Agency. Corcovado first of all thank u arnie for unlocking the thread... second The News From Lebanon: My younger brother who works for mbc and still in lebanon , he was in Gazye shooting the last massacre by israelis right after the bombing , he told me that he saw a baby torned in half a girl crying for her mom but her mom never answered she was DEAD... I called my younger brother tonight and when he answered i thought he was someone else...my younger brothers voice changed ,he is older now ,he knows that humanity has lost its glory , he knows that life is cheap , he knows how ugly the world can be... i didnt want my younger brother to change or to know so soon ...he believed in happiness ...My younger brother is OLD NOW.... yshimy
Plz, noone feed this troll, he doesn't know the difference between a rocket and guided missiles... sniper420
that so true .........2 hours of repeated shelling and then precise bunker buster after 10 calls to stop u must b kidding..............isreal caused ecological disaster.....will take 10 yrs to clean up the oil spill!!!!!!!!!! freza
:( xibit did u all lissen to the speeach the israeli guy made at the security council meeting last night? he was telling that isreal is with the lebenese people and is helping the arabs and lebenese to eradicate terreroists groups like hezbollah ! and was giving examples of how the lebenese ansestors helped the jews build solomon's temple by giving ceder trees etc etc i think he could have gone and slapped the arab leaders on the face instead of the way he structured his speech and those slaps would have been less embarrassing for those arab leaders. nostradamus :D shafique :) Nostradamus 1. What were the boundaries of the state in 1312BC and what was the state called? Who inhabited the land before and after this? (And by the way, this is an ethnic issue, not a religous issue - Arabs) 2. What was the name of the territory in question on all the maps in 1940, say? 3. Were the Jews the only people occupying parts of the territory for that period? Did they have any neighbours on the land? Did they own the majority of the land? I look forward to your answers (a hint, some of the answers are in my other thread which has the entire text of a speech at the UN debate in 1947) Corcovado my parents are coming today from lebanon ... they are on the way now ...i pray they reach safely chevaliers-de-sion 60,000 peace keepers await word to enter southern Lebanon (IDF) arniegang
I am sure i can speak for all on the Forum, we wish your parents a safe journey and that the rest of your family are safe Cocs sniper420
Are they arriving via Syria? Cos I have a freind in Lebanon and didnt ear from him since the conflict started.....may the force b with ur parents alexandra
good luck to them. hope they get there safe! Corcovado they are here :D thank god, and thank u all for ur prayers , i love u all ..THANKS A MILLION xxxx alexandra
hey...great to hear that corcovado! :) i am so happy for u freza I second that. You and your family went through a lot, but you finally have your parents in a safe place, wonderful. arniegang great news Corcs :D yshimy
i third that.... hope they are fine and happy.
cheers gurls, have a good familly hug :D Concord Great to hear! kanelli I'm really happy for you and your family Corcs. I wish you all some peace of mind and rest after all the recent turmoil. shafique I'm so glad for you Corcs. God be praised. freza xibit ,
This speech was actually funny, I mean, what the heck?? How did that guy manage to keep a straight face while talking such psychotic nonsense... But what can you expect from Israel at this point? They've gone to new and unbelievable lows... And their attempts at rallying support for their rampage is really quite bad. le-serpent-rouge Do you support the Israel occupation? en>fr fr>en By valkyrie On Fri Aug 11, 2006 01:54 AM POLL RESULTS: to date votes Percent Votes Options 88% 10,000021 Yes, all the way Nuke u¬m 16% 6 No, I hope they leave soon 13% 5 No, I want their asses kicked out of 11% 4 Other I of course voted no :D Chocoholic Hey Corcs, glad to hear your family is safe and well :D xibit
yeah but u know this all was bound to happen sooner or later , its clearly mentioned in the Quran and Hadith.
the jews will take control over the world and the muslims will be like scum in a crapy state.
i might sound too far fetched but this war is not between lebenese or israel
but between the believers and the non believers, or is just the beginning of the real war.
the believers being the true Muslims, most probably arab christians , orthadox christians and some anglicans, with their leader as Prophet Jesus RA
and the unbelievers being the jews, hypocrite muslims and Christians with a western mentality (like those kind who don’t believe in god and are atheists or goths or some thing) and their leader as anti Christ or Dajaal as muslims would put it.
We all know the jews are waiting for their messiah to come, they first mistook Jesus as their messiah but he was not and was a prophet of god but the fact remains that this messiah is non other the antichrist or dajaal.
Hadith - Muslim #7015, Narrated An-Nawwas ibn Sam'an
It will at this very time that Allah will send Christ, son of Mary. He will descend at the white minaret on the eastern side of Damascus, wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he lowers his head, there will fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he raises it up, beads like pearls will scatter from it. Every non-believer who smells the odour of his body will die and his breath will reach as far as he is able to see. He will then search for him (Dajjal) until he catches hold of him at the gate of Ludd and kills him. Then a people whom Allah had protected will come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he will wipe their faces and inform them of their ranks in Paradise. It will be under such conditions that Allah will reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from among My servants such people against whom none will be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah will send Gog and Magog and they will swarm down from every slope. The first of them will pass the lake of Tiberias and drink out of it. And when the last of them passes, he will say: There was once water there.
This part prophet Muhammed PBUH says the JESUS RA will slay dajaal at a place called luddso many years ago
" He will then search for him (Dajjal) until he catches hold of him at the gate of Ludd and kills him"
we all know the new city of lod which is in isreal.
Lod is a city in the Center District of Israel. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS), at the end of 2001 the city had a total population of 66,100.
Think about it, muslims here will know what I am talking about. freza xibit Well it might seem to some that this latest war against Lebanon is just the latest agression against Islam, but I think that it has to do with politics, regional control and economic loot more than anything. I think US/Israel and allies do a very bad but surprisingly successful job at propagating a "them against us" and a "they're a threat" type of mentality in their people. But that's just propaganda to hide their real intentions. That Israel is now destroying its neighbor because it claims that its existence is at risk, is ridiculous, when it is clear that Lebanon's existence is at risk... ajb
Interesting report in the news today. ajb
Both sides have great propaganda machines running creating a "them against us" mentality ...... to the point where it might not be considered propaganda any more ... I mean think about it each side does pose a threat to the other don't they? freza
ajb,
Indeed an interesting report. It reiterates what most of us already know, the Israelis planned this with the help of the US; they just needed an excuse... sharewadi
Something similar was in one of the local newspapers the other day too. An interesting analysis. Quite believable. MaaaD But after the outcome of this one month offensive, and what a small militia of men has done to Israel. The US and Israel will both have to rethink there strategies against Iran. You have to think of Iran as a hezbollah multiplied 1000 times .. ajb
Other than resisting total destruction what have they done to Israel?
The only result from this war I can see is that the links between Iran and Syria supplying Hezbollah have become more publicised and are laying the foundations for the US to invade.
Lets hope this can't be pushed through prior to Bush leaving office ... maybe someone with some sense will not pursue this course of action. MaaaD
good questions ajb. Throughout the Arab Israeli conflict the Israeli army has been winning easily in every major armed combat. Hezbollah has proved to the Arabs first, and to the world that the Israeli army is not invincible anymore. It has also destroyed the moral of a nation that was built out of an army. You would need to understand how important the IDF is to Israel to know how devstating the death of 100 soldiers in the past month of conflict is to the Israeli people. I was watching the Israeli channel 2 today and they say the number of Israeli soldiers who have checked into mental institutions is 10 times the number of soldiers injured during the conflict.
Again, looking at this as an isolated event, i can see how many might see it as not such a huge win. But when looked at in the overall context of the past 50+ years of conflict, this was a win. ajb
Thanks Maaad ... with a little history I can see why it would feel like a moral victory for Hezbollah. I would be cautious of saying they are no longer invincible as there is a difference between resisting and defeating. Either way hopefully it is a resistance which will bring stability to the region rather than more widespread violence. Corcovado just a thought watch it please &mode=related&search=



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