Del
Some historians say he certainly won't be the first president with Black ancestors - just the first to acknowledge his Blackness.
Presidents Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge all had Black ancestors they kept in their genealogical closets.
Harding did not deny his African ancestry when Republican leaders called on him to deny his "Negro" history. He said, "How should I know whether or not one of my ancestors might have jumped the fence?"
Does African ancestry make these men Black? If the bar is the one-drop rule, then yes. The one-drop rule is a historical term used during the Jim Crow era that defines a person with one drop of sub-Saharan-African ancestry as not white and therefore must be Black. If that's the bar, then there have already been other Black presidents, says historian Leroy Vaughn, author of Black People and Their Place in World History.
The first president with African ancestry was Jefferson, described as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father." Jefferson also was said to have destroyed all documentation attached to his mother, even going to extremes to seize letters written by his mother to other people.
Vaughn cites an article written in The Virginia Magazine of History that states Andrew Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a Black man. The magazine also stated that Jackson's oldest brother had been sold as a slave.
Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents.
Warren Harding apparently never denied his ancestry. According to Vaughn, William Chancellor, a professor of economics and politics at Wooster College in Ohio, wrote a book on the Harding family genealogy. Evidently, Harding had Black ancestors between both sets of parents. Chancellor also said that Harding attended Iberia College, a school founded to educate fugitive slaves.
Coolidge supposedly was proud of his heritage. He claimed his mother was dark because of mixed Indian ancestry. Coolidge's mother's maiden name was "Moor," and in Europe, the name "Moor" was given to all Blacks, just as "Negro" was used in America. It later was concluded that Coolidge was part Black.
Del
This thread is obviously a bit too heavy for most on here...
kanelli
No, it just isn't that interesting to talk about. Obama is visibly dark, he doesn't just have one Black ancestor in the background. What people see is what makes the impressions and what can cause the prejudice. If I had one ancestor who is Aboriginal and I became Prime Minister of Canada, should the public say I am the first Aboriginal Prime Minister in Canada's history?
Del
- kanelli wrote:
No, it just isn't that interesting to talk about. Obama is visibly dark, he doesn't just have one Black ancestor in the background. What people see is what makes the impressions and what can cause the prejudice. If I had one ancestor who is Aboriginal and I became Prime Minister of Canada, should the public say I am the first Aboriginal Prime Minister in Canada's history?
Shut up. You don't and never have anything interesting to say.
kanelli
Someone's chucking his dummy out of the buggy. :lol:
shanksinha
Dont know abt black, but Barack "Hussein" Obama is certainly the first Muslim president of US (acknowledged or otherwidse).
Dubai Knight
Who cares if he is black, white, green or blue as long as he is a good president, fair, peace loving, concerned, not cowed by his dumb advisors and not some war mongering moron like his predecessor...
8) 8) 8)
Knight
smoggie
It's important that he is black...... It breaks down another barrier. Just like if Hilary had been voted in.....Obama definitely talks the talk. I hope he walks the walk
wordyexpat
- shanksinha wrote:
Dont know abt black, but Barack "Hussein" Obama is certainly the first Muslim president of US (acknowledged or otherwidse).
Barack Obama is not a Muslim, he is quite clearly a Christian, he goes to Church and believes in Jesus as the Son of God. Because he was born into a Muslim household that doesn't make him one. If your parents are Christian but you follow Buddhist values, you're a Buddhist, not a Christian. Clearly, you know nothing.
smoggie
Spot on Wordy!
What is the view of islam on muslims converting to other religions??
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Dubai Knight
- smoggie wrote:
Spot on Wordy!
What is the view of islam on muslims converting to other religions??
Well some guy in Pakistan tried it and the Vatican had to smuggle him out as almost the whole country was trying to kill him!
Once a Muslim, always a Muslim I understand.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Knight
rudeboy
- shanksinha wrote:
Dont know abt black, but Barack "Hussein" Obama is certainly the first Muslim president of US (acknowledged or otherwidse).
i guess the name "hussain" probably does piss off the indians ;)
han shanksinha you could have said barack obama. why did u have to mention "hussain"? are you trying to imply something here?
puppypup
I don't care but speaking from an American perspective. He's the first bi-racial. He is the first black for blacks because he's part black but what makes him 'more' black is that he is married to a black woman not a bi-racial or 'high yellow' woman. If he had married white, Asian or non-black then I think his blackness would be less from black-American perspective.
Unfortunately race is a big deal in the States even when someone thinks they are so multicultural and liberal, trust me, they really aren't.
wordyexpat
- Dubai Knight wrote:
- smoggie wrote:
Spot on Wordy!
What is the view of islam on muslims converting to other religions??
Well some guy in Pakistan tried it and the Vatican had to smuggle him out as almost the whole country was trying to kill him!
Once a Muslim, always a Muslim I understand.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Knight
Obviously, uneducated people are going to have a problem with people deserting Islam. Just like those guys in England who tried to pull my friend's hijab off in Liverpool City Centre, or the others who told my friends who had the gall to speak Arabic on the street, to 'speak f***ing English' (It turned out he thought only Europeans should speak their own language outside their country)
But most people are not like that. Exetremists are everywhere. We just have to sift through them in society.
kanelli
Del is happy that people are paying attention to his thread now. Del, are you going to apologize and show me some love for jump-starting your thread for you? :lol:
Del
- smoggie wrote:
It's important that he is black...... It breaks down another barrier.
Well said that man!
sage & onion
All the hype about his colour, get over it people and let him get on with his job
Del
- sage & onion wrote:
All the hype about his colour, get over it people and let him get on with his job
And well said THAT man!
kanelli
Says the guy to who brought up the thread to talk about Obama's race in the first place. :lol:
Del
- kanelli wrote:
Says the guy to who brought up the thread to talk about Obama's race in the first place. :lol:
It wasn't to talk about his race, it was to question whether or not he's the first black president.
Skyper
It doesnt matter if he's black or white.. its just color.. but he's mixed,mom is white and father's black..
sage & onion
- Skyper wrote:
It doesnt matter if he's black or white.. its just color.. but he's mixed,mom is white and father's black..
Really :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Bora Bora
- puppypup wrote:
I don't care but speaking from an American perspective. He's the first bi-racial. He is the first black for blacks because he's part black but what makes him 'more' black is that he is married to a black woman not a bi-racial or 'high yellow' woman. If he had married white, Asian or non-black then I think his blackness would be less from black-American perspective.
Unfortunately race is a big deal in the States even when someone thinks they are so multicultural and liberal, trust me, they really aren't.
What??? I'm American and I have never viewed it or heard it viewed in such a way. I have been around since the 60's and witnessed the stuggles of black Americans. There was a time that people who were bi-racial did not have a place in black society because they were not accepted by blacks. Over time, bi-racials who had prominent white features would "pass" as white to integrate into white society. Those with black features gravitated towards blacks as they were more likely to be accepted. Today, the majority of Americans, fortunately, are color blind.
I grew up having black friends when it wasn't acceptable. I am married to an Arab national and I have many friends of different nationalities. As for those Americans who wear prejudice as a badge, they can been found living in the backwaters of many of the southern states and the reason they remain prejudice is because they never ventured out of their little world to see that there is a bigger world out there. Sarah Palin campaigned there.
As for Barack Hussein Obama. He is a highly intelligent man, married to a highly intelligent woman and I believe he will truly turn America around, develop good international relationships and will go down in history for his accomplishments as a President, not because he was black.
Del
Good post, Bora.
puppypup
You missed my point Bora. I'm talking about his label. He's really not black but he is black by his own choice and because most of society (in their own minds) won't permit him to be white or bi-racial. Furthermore he was raised by whites and grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. I don't think he experienced a typical black-American upbringing but having a wife who grew up in more "African-American" does bring him closer to being black-American.
I'm not saying blacks would shun him if he had married white, Asian, Native-American, etc but by choosing a black label for himself instead of bi-racial or white with the added black wife does make him "more" black as far as culture and identity. For example Tiger Woods says he's multiracial. He's not black nor Asian. Furthermore he married a white woman. No, he's not shunned by blacks but he is "less black" than Obama. Nevertheless Americans and the rest of the world ARE still backwards enough to say Tiger Woods is black. He isn't black but Obama is black. Why? Because Tiger Woods says he's Cablinasian and Obama says he's black.
Speedhump
OMG, two and a half months late!
Misery Called Life
- Bora Bora wrote:
- puppypup wrote:
I don't care but speaking from an American perspective. He's the first bi-racial. He is the first black for blacks because he's part black but what makes him 'more' black is that he is married to a black woman not a bi-racial or 'high yellow' woman. If he had married white, Asian or non-black then I think his blackness would be less from black-American perspective.
Unfortunately race is a big deal in the States even when someone thinks they are so multicultural and liberal, trust me, they really aren't.
What??? I'm American and I have never viewed it or heard it viewed in such a way. I have been around since the 60's and witnessed the stuggles of black Americans. There was a time that people who were bi-racial did not have a place in black society because they were not accepted by blacks. Over time, bi-racials who had prominent white features would "pass" as white to integrate into white society. Those with black features gravitated towards blacks as they were more likely to be accepted. Today, the majority of Americans, fortunately, are color blind.
I grew up having black friends when it wasn't acceptable. I am married to an Arab national and I have many friends of different nationalities. As for those Americans who wear prejudice as a badge, they can been found living in the backwaters of many of the southern states and the reason they remain prejudice is because they never ventured out of their little world to see that there is a bigger world out there. Sarah Palin campaigned there.
As for Barack Hussein Obama. He is a highly intelligent man, married to a highly intelligent woman and I believe he will truly turn America around, develop good international relationships and will go down in history for his accomplishments as a President, not because he was black.
Lets hold the Champagne glasses just yet. We shall raise him a toast after he completes atleast a year in office?
Bora Bora
- puppypup wrote:
You missed my point Bora. I'm talking about his label. He's really not black but he is black by his own choice and because most of society (in their own minds) won't permit him to be white or bi-racial. Furthermore he was raised by whites and grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. I don't think he experienced a typical black-American upbringing but having a wife who grew up in more "African-American" does bring him closer to being black-American.
I'm not saying blacks would shun him if he had married white, Asian, Native-American, etc but by choosing a black label for himself instead of bi-racial or white with the added black wife does make him "more" black as far as culture and identity. For example Tiger Woods says he's multiracial. He's not black nor Asian. Furthermore he married a white woman. No, he's not shunned by blacks but he is "less black" than Obama. Nevertheless Americans and the rest of the world ARE still backwards enough to say Tiger Woods is black. He isn't black but Obama is black. Why? Because Tiger Woods says he's Cablinasian and Obama says he's black.
The term "bi-racial" is rarely used anymore, in the US at least, and I think it's because people don't really care.
To label oneself "bi-racial" really doesn't put them in a specific society, so to speak. There are white, black, hispanic, asian societies, but there is no bi-racial society.
Bi-racial is not exclusive to black and white marriages. I think it is because the word "racial" equates to race which equates to being black and that is not the case. A child that is the product of a white marrying a Korean is as bi-racial as a black marrying a Korean.