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How can anyone not question evidence like this?


jabbajabba Danny Jawenko, a Dutch controlled demolition expert is shown Building 7 collapse without prior knowledge that this happened on sept 11th: Owner of the building says to 'pull it and let it come down' - this means that a team had 7 hours to rig the whole building for demolition: And I will let this one speak for itself; And just a small piece on the farcical pentagon attack;
uaebadoo This is the truth admitted by the American themselves and even in 2001 ,some people had big question mark about what happened scot1870
Just stick to Gulf News telling you what's really happening in the world...
Ridiculous. Arabs flew planes in to 2 big towers, tell me where the doubt is? Someone last week said the twin towers were rigged, how come the "expert" didn't think they were? rudeboy
scot wot proof do you have apart from the CNN, ABC news and bbc news and the british government and usa government saying that the ARABS flew the planes? oh it must be the passports they found in the rubble of the wtc right? the passport made out of PAPER, which survived the crash, the fire and then the collapsing of the buildings.
Or maybe it was the CCTV of BROWN skinned ppl videoed at various places in the world and the world was informed that these were the terroists??
OK ok ok I believe you they were arabs. you telling me that the CIA and FBI the worlds most advanced secret services went to sleep? Lol come on if they wanted to they could tap into this forum and see what we are typing. hell they can zoom into your building with a help of a satellite and figure out what you up or even what you typing. Come on the CIA and FBI knew about the "chatter" the AL Qaeda were creating and nothing was done. Y nothing was done? Because the USA government needed an excuse to take over Afghanistan and Iraq. Yeh i know you saying this is bullshit. the government would never do this but then again WHY wouldnt the POLITICAN do this?? Are you going to believe what ever CNN and BBC news tell you? dont believe the media dont believe what you see in the cameras.
Y does the Media dont have access to those obtained in guantamalo? Is the USA government keeping them away from the media so that the rest of the world doesnt know about the TRUTH??????????? Chocoholic Actually many experts said immediately after the twin towers went down, that it looked like a demolition job, then they suddently changed their tune a few hours later. There's lots of evidence to suggest, that although the planes flew into the towers, that they were rigged with explosives aswell. The jury is still out over this one. rudeboy
I am sure you guys must have seen Loose Change on . I know its hard to believe. But what if it was? What if this was all a stunt so that USA could attack Iraq and Afghanistan. Initially they said that in Iraq they had WMD but they never found them? Did they?
We can find out the truth after 50 odd years because the report they carried out will be made public after 50 odd years. arniegang Al Jazeera covered it live, as in the 2nd tower when the plane hit. I suppose they were in on the conspiracy also :roll: :roll: :roll: rudeboy
heheh yes arni not only did al jazeera cover it but the whole worlds media covered it. It doesnt matter if Al Jazeera covered it or CNN covered it. Cos we all saw it first aeroplane went in and then i dont know 5 10 minutes later when the whole worlds focus was on the first plane collision into 1 tower, coincidently we go hello here what is this 2nd plane doing oh booom. its just a coincidence that the 2nd plane had to crash into the tower when the worlds media was focusing onto the world trade center?? hmmm strange isnt it?
ANd its strange that when WTC were attacked in 1998 with a bomb blast in the basement it didnt collapse? Yet when the aeroplanes crashed into the 2 tower instead of the top bit toppling over, they came down????? strange isnt it?
Have you ever seen the foundation of the appartments they building in UAE. if you havent plz do. The foundation is the strongest part together with the latest technology the appartments can withstand the strongest earthquake. Now the Twin Tower, worlds tallest buildings should have had a pretty hefty foundation considering their size dont u think so. The twin towers were designed to withstand the +100kph wind and even the strongest of the earthquake. It was built of the strongest metal. It didnt collapse when there was a bomb blast at the FOUNDATION of the building. So did it really come down because of the aeroplanes collision near to the top? Ok fine the fire was strong and so on the aeroplanes did bring it down. But instead of bringing it down shouldnt the top bit have toppled over??? strange is nt it that the towers came down as if there were demolition charges placed in the building. Come on guys. Whatever USA and UK government say the CNN will say yes its true. But is it true?
USA and UK government said there were WMD in IRAQ, the poppet media said yes there was. Well we all know now that there werent any.
Look at the results of the 9 11. Who benefitted the most? rudeboy
heheh yes arni not only did al jazeera cover it but the whole worlds media covered it. It doesnt matter if Al Jazeera covered it or CNN covered it. Cos we all saw it first aeroplane went in and then i dont know 5 10 minutes later when the whole worlds focus was on the first plane collision into 1 tower, coincidently we go hello here what is this 2nd plane doing oh booom. its just a coincidence that the 2nd plane had to crash into the tower when the worlds media was focusing onto the world trade center?? hmmm strange isnt it?
ANd its strange that when WTC were attacked in 1998 with a bomb blast in the basement it didnt collapse? Yet when the aeroplanes crashed into the 2 tower instead of the top bit toppling over, they came down????? strange isnt it?
Have you ever seen the foundation of the appartments they building in UAE. if you havent plz do. The foundation is the strongest part together with the latest technology the appartments can withstand the strongest earthquake. Now the Twin Tower, worlds tallest buildings should have had a pretty hefty foundation considering their size dont u think so. The twin towers were designed to withstand the +100kph wind and even the strongest of the earthquake. It was built of the strongest metal. It didnt collapse when there was a bomb blast at the FOUNDATION of the building. So did it really come down because of the aeroplanes collision near to the top? Ok fine the fire was strong and so on the aeroplanes did bring it down. But instead of bringing it down shouldnt the top bit have toppled over??? strange is nt it that the towers came down as if there were demolition charges placed in the building. Come on guys. Whatever USA and UK government say the CNN will say yes its true. But is it true?
USA and UK government said there were WMD in IRAQ, the poppet media said yes there was. Well we all know now that there werent any.
Look at the results of the 9 11. Who benefitted the most? rudeboy guys sorry for the repost. my net is playing up. Click on the link on top. There was a building in spain in madrid in 2005 that was on fire for MORE THEN 10 HOURS. THATS right 10 HOURS??? it is a 32 storey building. It was on fire for more then 10 hours and end of it all the building didnt come down like the Twin Towers came down. Instead the top 6 floors toppled off. a 32 storey building on fire for 10+ hours and it didnt come down instead 6 floors of it toppled over. twin towers werent 32 storey building and NO they werent on fire for 10 HOURS. They were taller then 32 storey, more bigger and more stronger then this building in Madrid. And twin towers were not on fire for 10 hours maybe 1 or 2 hours. Yet they came down instead of the top floors toupling over. Strange isnt it? The twin towers were on fire on the 13th Feburary 1975. The 11th Floor was on fire for hours. Yet the building didnt come falling down. There was a bomb blast in Feburary 26th 1993. A 1,500 pounds of bomb blasted at the basement of one of the towers and created a 100 foot hole in floors. Yet the twin tower didnt come down? There are many more incidents like this across the world where buildings were on fire. A few of the floors toupled over but they never came falling down. So y is it that the Twin Towers the worlds TALLEST building made of god knows how many steel bars came down in less then 2 hours? Was it just an excuse to Attack Iraq and Afghanistan?

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arniegang we have discussed this to death on the forums in the past.
No building has ever been designed to have a fully fuelled passenger jet fly into it at 500mph. The conclusion for the collapse was that the intense heat/fire created by the aviation fuel melted the welds of the supporting beams with the core and the fire protection that was sprayed onto the beams was not resistant enough and failed.
It wasnt the planes that caused the collapse it was the resulting fire from the fuel, its that simple. rudeboy
heheh arnie i was hoping someone would say that. Did you know in 1945 a B-25, 10 ton plane crashed into the Empire State building. You can say it was the same size as one of the planes that crashed into the twin towers.
What was the different between the two aeroplanes? One was military the other were pessenger planes. But both had aviation fuel in them. Didnt they? So y is it that the Empire State building which is smaller then the Twin Towers didnt come down. Wasnt there a fire resulting from the FUEL in the Empire state building? Y didnt the empire state building come down then? I thought it was simple as that ;).
Click on the link below and read all about it.
arniegang We are all aware of the B 25 incident.
However please take those rose tinted spectacles off.
1. Because of this very incident the WTC was designed to take an impact from a Boing 707 (gross weight 86,184 Kgs ie x5.5 of B-25)
2. The B-25 gross weight at take off was 15,200 kgs
now this is the really interesting bit .....
The 767-200 gross weight at take off was 171,170Kgs
Now according to my basic mathmatics, the difference in size and weight of these 2 aircraft is times a factor of approx x12. Also the 767-200 max speed is 100% more than the B-25.
The comparrisson is likened to being rear ended by a Toyota Yaris doing 30kph verus a Fully Armoured Hum V doing 60kph
So i dont really see your point. jabbajabba All of this is debunked by the *fact* that the world trade center 7 came down like a pack of cards................and it was not hit by any planes, it just had a fire on the basement floor which was being contained by the NY fire dept. Two buildings which stood next to WTC7 stand in tact today; http://bilder.vgb.no/14097/img_462d1464c1324.jpg I can understand how there are some who just cannot fathom that governments do not lie to the people and the press. rudeboy Yes arnie you are right. but it wasnt 500 mph but 600 mph and the tests were carried out in the 70s with a 707. You are absolutely right on this one. John SKilling the bloke who designed the twin towers said that "the twin towers could withstand the impact of a Boeing 707. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed". But, he says, "The building structure would still be there". Les Robertson one of the original structural engineers of twin tower said that "little likelihood of a COLLAPSE no matter how the building was attacked". Frank Demartini a on-site contruction manager for the trade center said ". the building probably could sustain MULTIPLE IMPACTS of JETLINERS because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door - this intense grid and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting". So arnie if you take multiple 707s i.e 3 707s = 86,184.00 kg x 3 = 258552 kgs. that is how much the Twin towers could have withstand. Ask yourself this why would they design the towers to survive plane crashes without considering the JET fuel? Yes the considered the fact that "all the fuel would dump into the building. there would be a horrendous fire. BUT the building structure would still be there". These are all quotes from the designers, engineers and architects of the twin towers. They were quoted saying this in 1993 after the bombing of twin towers. rudeboy what bout the building in madird was on fire for 10 hours?? and it didnt come down like cards instead the top 6 floors toupled off. Arnie u want to explain this? scot1870 rudeboy, you live in a weird world. We know Arabs hijacked the planes as there were people on board who phoned to say what was happening (yup, that little TV remote on your Emirates flight also has another use)! There is footage of the people boarding the planes! All part of the conspiracy I'm sure. Ooooo, a building on fire in Madrid didn't fall down. Wow, I'm sure it was the same size and build as the twin towers and was subject to the same conditions. Oh, wait a minute...the laws of physics don't seem to apply when we're talking about conspiracies. Do you know what 1000 degree heat does to materials? As for "it looked like a demolition", did your cartoon world make you think it would topple like the leaning tower of Pisa? News can be manipulated but the truth is not buried forever. The BBC is independent and has no reason to kiss Blair or Bush's arse, why would it cover it up? Has Al Jazeera ever come up with compelling evidence even (please spare me the "experts" they came up with, there's as many people who say the theories are all rubbish)? As for who benefitted from 9/11. I'll give you a hint, you're living in a country that's one of the prime beneficiaries... rudeboy
Scott hahahah nah mate I live in the real world. I dont watch CNN, BBC news or even sky news. I dont believe what the media says let it be western or arabic. As I see it the media are puppets of the politicans.
hahahah yes I do know what 1000 degree does to materials. But was WTC made out of wool and plastic?? no it wasnt. It was made out of RE-INFORCED STEEL. And did you know that the MELTING POINT of steel used in the construction of WTC was 3000 DEGREES F thats right scott. 3000 degrees hmmm thats twice more then 1000degree.
The maximum temprature that JP-8 (jet fuel) burns at is 1800 degrees F. That is assuming that there is there is maximum oxygen available to feed the fire. The fires in the buildings were oxygen difficent due to the somke inside the towers engulfing the flames. This would mean that the fires wouldn't even burn at the max. temp. Instead they were burning at less then its potential 1800 degrees. so how did the WTC come down?
UAE benefitted from september 11???? you want to explain how :S.
I thought bushy baby benefitted by having to stand for president AGAIN.
I thought the owner of the WTO benefited. because 9/11 earned him the nice sum of $7.5 billion and letting Silverstein build a new corporate complex "for FREE". thats right folks FOR FREE.
wait a minute I know y the building in Madrid or all the other buildings across the world that were on fire for more then 10 hours didnt come down but the WTC did. Its because the other fires were a regular ordinary type fire. The WTC fire was DIFFERENT. it was A REICHSTAG FIRE. MUCH hotter ;).
OOOOOH wait wait i know. Aliens from Area 51 zapped both of the towers with their flying machines ;). scot1870 As I say, media can be manipulated but if you read Western newspapers they ask a loooooooot of questions about what government does. For example, were Tony Blair (or now Gordon Brown) to allocate himself land that belongs to the country and sell it off for millions in real estate developments and keep the proceeds they may ask a few questions. And, indeed, make sure he went to jail. Can't think of any examples where stuff like that has happened though, no idea why I mentioned it. Oh dear. Nobody said the steel was melted like the baddy in Terminator 2, suggest you go back to the drawing board. You may also want to look at demolition videos, what do you see? Oh yes, explosions! Live in your fantasy world, the UAE surely hasn't benefited from high oil prices or indeed OPEC decisions not to include world production. Honestly, it's all visionary leadership... Hey, I've heard a good one. Princess Diana was killed by MI6. Shhhh, don't tell anyone, you're the only one that knows. :wink:
rudeboy
The western media questions alot do they? Oh so when Bush and Blair said there were weapons of mass distruction here. What did the Media dO? wait a second yep They believed them. And then Bush and his merry men in g strings rode their horses to Iraq and guess whAT? The WORLD FOUND OUT THAT BUSH AND BLair had lied to them. LOL
So how do you know that the government is not lying about september 11?? Oh wait you believe whatever bush or gordon or blair says right?? Oh alrite i get it now.
Lol I am not the one who said steel melts like the baddy in terminator. The steel in WTC had a high melting point till 3000 degrees. They would have only melted if 3000 degrees and some oxgyen had been in the room. But it didnt. But wait wait wait guys I would like to hear professor Scotty explain to everyone how really steel melts. Please scot do the honours mate.
Diana was killed by a ISLAMIC terroist cos she was gonna get married to a muslim lol ;).
Scot I am sorry I dont know how steel melts. You want to tell me how it melts. Lets here your side of the story. scot1870 The whole structure was weakened, partly by impact, largely by burning. Gravity did the rest. What's to explain?
Oh yeah, it's cos Bush wanted to invade Afghanistan for, er, the poppies whilst watching his economy being crippled by rising oil prices. How silly of me.
The media REPORTED (not engineered) the words of the US and UK in the lead up to the war, if you're so good on this Google malarky you may see many in the media questioned it in the west and people took to the streets in protest.
Not to worry though, Gulf News is on top of world affairs so you'll not miss a thing.
Frederick
You have yourself a good day now. arniegang It was more to do with the welds melting as opposed to the steel melting. The Steel, because of the intense heat expanded thus forcing the welded joints to weaken and fail. The steel over-heated more than expected because the "fire protection" that was sprayed on to the girders also failed. jabbajabba WTC7 is the smoking gun.
It was not hit by any planes and was quite frankly brushed over during the commission.
Silverstein (owner);
"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said, you know, “We've had such terrible loss of life that the smartest thing to do is just pull it.” And they made that decision to pull it and we watched the [World Trade Center 7] building collapse."
This was seven hours after the fire started - this means a demolition pre-prep which takes a month had to be carried out throughout the building in half a day.
Naturally this does not add up so Silverstein now claims that 'pull it' means get out and let it burn.
'Pull!!!' has been a trade term for demolition for as long as the trade has gone.
So think about this 6-7 hours to rig a building up or the building collapsed on its own from the fire and explosion on the ground floor which in left resulted in the top collapsing downwards?
As for the media - well thats whole new topic which anyone can research themselves. Some of my family are journalists so I stopped trusting what I am told a long time ago now. jabbajabba
Kind of like this :)

That looks distinctly the result of the use of thermite incendiary cutter charges.
They place them at an angle so that the girder dislodges at a downward slide resulting in each floor collapsing downwards rather then the whole thing toppling over. rudeboy
errr what about the building in Madrid then? or the empire state building that was hit by a B-25. Wasnt that damaged PARTLY by impact BUT LARGELY BY BURNING? Yet it didnt fall down? strange scot that the rule of gravity didnt apply there ;).

Lol yeh the poppies and drug business has started doing well under the rule of USA Afghanistan. Doesnt this remind you of the same Vietnam where USA troops seized drugs from there, shipped it VIA plane to USA and sell them there. hmmm how do i know this? do you want a link ;).
Lol y ARE you complaining about the OIL prices man??? hahahh the oil prices went up NOW. they didnt go up when Twin towers went down ;).
hmmmm theres no oil in Afghanistan but we do know that they have large amount of Natural Gas there UNDISCOVERED TOOO. Or maybe its the precious metals lol. Maybe Aghanistan was invaded to have a strategic base for the Americans to Attack Iraq and hmm maybe Iran. Well now they have a base there they can attack WHOEVER they like. Even Russian and China ;).


Yes scot more and more ppl are openig their eyes. especially when their governments lied about the WMD in Iraq which in fact was A LIE. and just because of one little LIE families in the West have lost their fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers, wifes, husbands, son and daugthers to the war in Iraq. I am not sure how many American and british soilders have died. Maybe you can switch on CNN and tell me what is the latest count of deaths. Hey atleast they died because of one lil lie didnt they ;).

Lol you 4got I dont read newspapers or watch news on the tv ;) let it be Arabic newspapers or English newspapers. Cos we all know here that if Bush says there is Weapons of Mass Distruction in Iraq. Then hell yeh there are WMD in Iraq ;). rudeboy
Arnie do you have a bachelors degree or masters degree in Chemistry that allows you to say this ;).
or what is your profession?? Do you have experience in welding? If so what kind of welding? rudeboy
hehheh arnie were you one of the engineers involved in the designing of the twin towers. cos the way you said "the steel over-heated MORE then expected", makes me think you were one of the engineers mate ;).
hmmm I wonder if there were water sprayers in twin towers. guess they all werent working that day cos FBI and CIA went to sleep and let the "ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST" come and fly 4 jumbo jets over the skys of USA. heheh. rudeboy scot and arnie i know its hard for you to believe me. I am not changing your opinion. you have urs I have mine. We all are intitled to have our own opinions. I know its hard for you to think that the government WILL ever lie to you. But I am not saying that arabs planned 9 11. They could have but then again they couldnt have and someone else might have done it. But there is no proof of this. Yes I know you thinking oh Osama admitted. You just need a laptop and voice morphing software and video software. with that you can do everything. Even get osama on tv speaking in a british accent. I can go on and on how the evidence provided by USA is a bit dodgy. I am not the only one who finds it dodgy. there are ppl in USA who find it dodgy. September 11 could have been planned by Al Qaeda. But there is no "legitimate" proof. OR it could have been done by "usa government" or someone else. But then again there is no proof. There is always 2 sides of a story. u r saying al qaeda have done it all. I am saying someone else hve done it. I dont know who is rite nd who is wrong. But u have to consider both of them because BOTH of them could have happend. How to proove what happened really? well most of the evidence has been destroyed. or most of the CCTV or evidence are under the control of FBI and CIA to insure that the "NATIONAL SECURITY" is not breached. Also Y are the ppl under captivity in gauntamao bay under USA? Y are they not being handed over to the National Court of Criminal in Hague and tried for War Crimes there and have a proper trial? Y isnt this happening? Do those ppl in Gautanamo Bay know something?? Is Mohammad Atta ALIVE and in Gautanamo BAY??? I dont know he could be there he couldnt be. But i do know that those ppl should be hand over to a Internaitonal tribunal and tried. And it should be publiced so that the world can see their trial. Because wasnt the twin tower not an attack on USA but an attack on the whole wide world??? rudeboy
come on jabbajabba the guy wouldnt do a insurance scam to make him $2.7 billion richer. No way he cant do that. Hes an American, an american cant kill thousands of ppl just to make himself powerful and rich. come on jabbajabba even though silverstine is $2.7 billion richer cos of 9 11 i dont think it was him. or was it ;). I dont think its him. someone else has a bigger plan. a plan for NEW WORLD ORDER. heheh scott i know i know i shouldnt watch too many movies :D. But it could happen ;). benwj How about we close this topic and start a more believable one like "the holocoust never happened". jabbajabba An apt quote; ""They must find it difficult...those who accept authority as the truth, instead of truth as the authority" - Gerald Massey. rudeboy
lol it did happen. But the matter of fact is there are millions of "holocoust" happening around the world. Even in Israel its happening. I know its hard to believe. Hey the world is a big place. Do you know whats going on in Africa right NOW?? Or maybe you could tell me what Bushy Baby is thinking of doing next ;). arniegang
you just cant reason with some people mate - save yer breath uaebadoo
Stick to your FOX news where you hear all the lies, You belived they found Mohammed Atta Passport after his plane hit the tower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!, You beleived that Pilots flying general AVIATION plane such the Cessna can fly a commercial Jet and manuver it as A fighter to hit the tower
Listen to the lie from Bush himself
http://www.truthnews.us/?p=280 scot1870
:lol: I know you're Emirati and basic steering is beyond you but trust me, it's not a "flying" leap of the imagination to understand it. Taking off an landing a plane is hard, the actual steering is, well, like driving a car. I'm British too, why would I watch Fox News?
rudeboy, which part didn't you grasp? Blair was hounded by the media before and after about WMD, it's the defining moment of his tenure and he will forever be remembered for it.
Your governments lie to you too anyway. You just don't have the media in place to question what's going on.
Best of luck in the real world guys, I said it before and I'll say it again, go and experience the world, you'll be a better person for it. uaebadoo
Let me try to explain basic steering which is beyond me as an Emirati,but, I will try :lol: , There is no Comparsion between the steering of an airplane and a car and ask any pilot.
This is what an amercan pilot said as written in the news
[color=red]For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible – there is not one chance in a thousand,” said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727’s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737’s through 767’s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.
“I had to be trained to use the new, computerized systems. I just couldn’t jump in and fly one,” he added.[/color]
By the way, this is not quoted from Gulf News :twisted:
:twisted: scot1870 :lol: and almost all of those buttons are for taking off, landing or other essential systems. The steering apparatus ain't hard though! rudeboy
I am sorry scot I didnt know that everyone was flying "flying cars" on the M40 :D. And by the way it sounds like you are an experienced pilot. So what do you fly? And how do you know its not hard?? Have you flown a boeing aeroplane. No mate I am not talking about flying on Microsoft Simulator 2007 :D. So how do you know that the steering apparatus aint hard???
Wow scott maybe you can try flying a boeing really low and crash into the Pentagon.
Wait wait wait I know I know it. Ok I hve cracked it now. They had the auto pilot on lol.
Scott y dont u take a trip around a few more "islamic" countries and that should open your eyes about USA and the western foregin policy. jabbajabba Kind of off topic - but here is what happens when your first car is a performance car. This is why having to much money and not having a 1 liter CC hatchback as your first car to get used to driving can prove a hazard; / ^ian^ I love this debate.

Because you know... everyone knows what thermite incendiary cutter charges look like.
Or the people who claim they heard what ' sounded like a missile ' when very people know what a missile sounds like.
Or it looked like a controlled demolition when very few people know what a controlled demolition looks like.
And of course... people are happy to quote experts out of context.
Lets look at a few things that put us on the straight and narrow and leave us with no choice but to accept what has come forth as facts.
Point 1
Has any member of any demolition team come forward and said "we set charged on building 7." - no they haven't. The sole belief that is was demolished comes from the use of the word 'pull' by the owner. Not compelling evidence.
Point 2
For those who say a missile hit the Pentagon... how do they explain the massive amount of plane wreckage pulled off the lawn and out of the pentagon.
Point 3
I see dead people. Or rather... I don't. Where are all the people who were supposed to be on the jets if they weren't really jets.
And of course... where do you find trained pilots willing to fly into buildings if the claim is untrained pilots couldn't do it?
The reality is this happened exactly as played out, and the reason why it worked is because it was incredibly simple. So simple if flew underneath the radar, because the US Intelligence Machine is designed to look for complex scenarios. The lack of complexity is the brilliance in this plan, not the execution. jabbajabba


Perhaps you could show me some examples and correct me?

Not many people know what a missile sounds like?? A lot of people know what a domestic jet sounds like would you not agree. I never recall once in my life hearing a flight overhead and thinking it sounded like a missile. I can just see that one standing up in court - "you honor, not many people know what a missile sounds like". Did you get this info from a national poll?

To the contrary I would ask if you are a controlled demolition expert? I am basing my claims on the words of controlled demolition experts, who all say WTC7 has the distinct fingerprint of a Controlled demolition. Watch the first link.

Example please - otherwise its all hot air.

Ha! Point 1 is a killer - man down :) - why do the guilty not come forth and say - I did it!. I think you may have missed the point somewhat - do you understand what intelligence agencies are and how they operate.

It gets better - Massive amounts :)
All I have seen are some panels and Engine which was later found to the wrong revision of aircraft.
The wings did not do much damage which was lucky - also the rolls royce engines situated under each wing hardly left a scratch. Phew - it could have been a lot worse - close shave there chaps.


It's early in the morning for me - I have read that a few times but cannot fathom what you mean. You don't see dead people so where are all the dead people if they were supposed to be jets. I would ask the same question.

Sure - the Japanese had the same issue during world war II.

"because the US Intelligence Machine is designed to look for complex scenarios." WTF does that mean?
Sorry - but that's a load of bollocks. Have ever heard of NORAD? They have a strict protocol. If domestic flight strays from its flight path - they scramble, *every single time* - this consists of flying in visible close proximity to said aircraft and demanding accountability and identity. If they do not navigate back on to course or provide a valid reason for straying - they get shot down.
This would have happened on that day, but for one reason. NORAD were told to stand down. Concord To the compiracytherrorists above I’m 100% with you guys. Actually none of it happened. 1. The buildings are still there. They hired David Copperfield to help them out. Tourists and foreigners can’t see them nor do they have access to WTC. It is all a big Hollywood set-up. If you go to NYC pay attention: you can’t see the same sky on the other side when you look up. Why do you think they don’t let you get too close to it: because you would touch the screen that is covering the buildings. There are many tunnels leading to the site and people go there to work everyday. You need to know the secret handshake and hand signal to be able to view the buildings. 2. The plan was actually hatched out by Santa and his Elves. They needed the space and what better way to get good storage space for all the toys. 3. World trade center 7? There was never such a building it was built that day out of playing cards and then made to collapse. They were going to use domino chips but since they would have needed a truck to bring the chips in (and thus give up their cover) they used playing cards which the conspirators carried in their packets. 3. The war in Afghanistan and Iraq did not happen either. Did you ever see the movie “Wagging the dog”? You are right you can’t believe the press. Not about 9/11 not about the War in Iraq or Afghanistan. Actually, I think I saw Saddam at Ibn Battuta Mall yesterday buying happy corn. 4. The Pentagon Thing? Actually they were just building a road to make a shortcut thru the building. It is a hassle if you have to walk all around to go to the bathroom (it is pentagon shaped after all). The project was behind schedule and on 9/11 to cover up for construction delays they blamed it on Osama – After all, his family is in the construction business so he can be blamed either way. 5. The flight 93 thing? Come on, we all know this was a movie plan from Hollywood. In fact, they had written it as a sequel to “Aeroplane” but by then O.J. Simpson did not have much of a following so they blamed it on another dark guy (Osama). How do I know all this? I read it on a bubble gum wrapper! St.Lucifer ^^ thats as simple as it gets.. More realistic to believe than the CIA, FBI, intelligence agency crap. I think all the events after the 9/11 have a massive Movie, Magic industries, Stock Market nexus. Screen writers did a good job anyway. Chocoholic erm does anyone here actually fly planes? You could actually basically take over the controls of a Boeing in flight after some lessons in a Cessna and some simulator training as the controls are pretty similar, it's the Airbus and it's 'fly by wire' or joystick controls that are totally different, hence the reason Boeing pilots don't fly Airbus and vice versa. You have the control stick which you push forward to go down, pull back to go up, move left and right to barrell roll in thet direction, but to actually turn you have to engage the rudder pedals at your feet. It's really not rocket scienbce you know. shafique I thought I'd chip in and say I'm enjoying this thread immensely. I'm not a beleiver in conspiracy theories, nor do I tax my mind about them - generally facts do not seem to change events or most people's minds. So in the end, what is the point? However it is enjoyable to see people propose the conspiracies and others taking the time to pour scorn on the arguments. That said, I haven't yet seen a good response to the points about no damage being done to the Pentagon by the plane's engines. I also saw on you-tube the accusation that the engines weren't found... Also, the collapse of the other building (I forget what it's called) does look suspicious, taking so long afterwards. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the explanations of the above two and I'll look them up. Oh - one other point that someone can clear up for me - were the early reports that a passport of one of the hijackers being found undamaged near the WTC true or just an urban myth? That I would find hard to believe (and always did at the time).. I also think it is plausible that Flight 93 was shot down as a defensive move (but this is not a conspiracy theory, as it assumes the flight was in fact hijacked!) All said though, I haven't been convinced it is a conspiracy... ocram's razor and all that. Cheers, Shafique jabbajabba The passport was the key piece of evidence linking Mohammed Atta to the event. Basically the story goes that the aircraft fuel was enough to cut clean through the girders so that the building collapsed, yet the passport was found at ground zero completely intact. It gets even more interesting when later on the other hijackers were found alive and well in Saudi Arabia - not to add they were quite miffed by there connection to the event as well. Also Mohammed Atta was wired 100k USD by General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) just before the attack - General Mahmoud was known to have key relationships with the CIA sharing knowledge on the 'war on terror'. When the news broke he was forced into retirement and several agents were put on a gagging order. This has never come up in court or been discussed in the commission. ,12271,1266520,00.html Now the sheep will come up with a suggestion like 'perhaps it was just a mistake or lots of people do underhand deals within governments'. My answer to this is wake up and research - find some links and prove me wrong. This is the most unfortunate thing of all and perhaps the saddest is that people just blindly accept what the mainstream media tells them - since then thousands of lifes have been lost, two wars created and no one see's the pattern and enquires for themselves. They would rather just hit back with the very spin that has deluded them in the first place. jabbajabba
Fox news you mean? jabbajabba
Point 1)
One of the engines was found. After the CIA released pictures it was noted that the type of engine was a different revision to the model fitted to the plane which crashed.
Point 2) Check out the first link at the start of this post.
There is also a body formed by architects (one of them involved in the structural design of WTC 1&2) who have come forward and joined the 9/11 truth movement. I will try and dig out there full presentation for you. jabbajabba
Do you fly commercial jets choco?
Here's what the professional instructor who trained the pilot who in turn 'allegedly' flew the jet into the pentagon says;

Frederick Until someone explains to me why many eye-witnesses on the ground at the time say that they saw a plane crash down onto the Pentagon lawns I\'m fairly confused how \"it was a missile\" conspiracy theorists can tie their shoelaces and get themselves dressed in the morning. jabbajabba
And likewise until someone explains to me why witnesses say they heard a missile and the whole thing stinks to high heaven - then I am...not quite confused, but very far from convinced. arniegang errrrrrrrr i think you will find they took commercial aviation lessons in the States. Maybe this is how they managed to steer the planes maybe? As it happens i had a pilots (PPL) licence, and like Chocs pointed out, in free flight ie left/right/ascend/decend even i could fly a 777,747,767 etc because i know and understand the principles of flight. jabbajabba
Did you read what the instructors said four posts above? arniegang i did yes, but i dont see the relevance. it basically said same as me. i would be considered a crap pilot too. but i would know how to fly it all the same. all the basics of joystick flight controls are the same on ALL planes the size of the plane is of no relevance with the exception of the difference of resonse between a small and large plane. Frederick [quote=\"jabbajabba\"][quote=\"Frederick\"]Until someone explains to me why many eye-witnesses on the ground at the time say that they saw a plane crash down onto the Pentagon lawns I\'m fairly confused how \"it was a missile\" conspiracy theorists can tie their shoelaces and get themselves dressed in the morning.
And likewise until someone explains to me why witnesses say they heard a missile and the whole thing stinks to high heaven - then I am...not quite confused, but very far from convinced.
As opposed to the dozens of people who SAW a commercial jetliner fly into the pentagon?
Also, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION CANT EVEN PLANT ANY WMD IN IRAQ, you think they pulled off 9/11? Not. bloody. likely. jabbajabba
Dozens of people eh?
As for Iraq that did not need to find any, they had already got in and duped the public into supporting them fresh off the back of 911;
Sure looks like a jetliner, clear as day;




Some more to consider;
&NR=1 Frederick
Scroll down to \"eyewitness testimony\", two-thirds of the way down, but the whole article is a good one.
In conclusion, \"review the facts\":
rudeboy lol cant believe this argument is going on. What i really dont understand is 3,500 odd people died in USA in one DAY and USA cried their eyes out. Ever since 1940s 100,000 ppl have died from conflicts in Chechyneya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan but no1 gave a toss about them. ys that? 9 11 happened I dont know who did it. It could have been the USA government or it could have been Islamic Terroists but ALL i know is that ever since 9 11 has happened the world has not become a safer world. Whenever I go back to London and travel by the subway or take a bus I get scared. Whenever I walk through the security check of dubai international airport, I have to take my shoes off, my belt of etc etc and you cant even take certain things on the aeroplane which you were allowed to 10 years earlier. Whenever I arrive at Heathrow airport I know for a fact that there are ppl sitting in a room monitoring EVERY single move I make. Whenever I talk to someone on the telephone i get worried that if i mention the word Al Qaeda or Bush i ll get in trouble. hmmm what does this mean? Lol i did my A-level history and I learnt during the Nazis regime that the Nazis would do this. They would monitor EVERYONES movement, what they were talking about, or what they were up to. They KNEW everything about everyone. Well ask yourself how do you know that your emails are not being monitored, y do u have to take ur shoes off at the airport, how do you know that whenever you are talking to someone on the telephone your calls are not being monitored. And oh yeh it doesnt matter if you are brown, black or white or a christian, muslim, hindu or even an athiest. What I would suggest is that you WAKE UP and see whats happening around u. Dont believe what CNN or NBC or Al Jazeera tell you. We dont know whats happening in Iraq we dont know how many American soilders are being killed, we dont know what they planning in the Pentagon, we dont know if they really are aliens and that area 51 really exists or not. Whatever you do dont believe the NEWSpapers or even the channels. If you really want to know the truth. I suggest you type in Afghanistan or Iraq and see the movies that are REALLY coming out of there. Cnn says 2 soilders have been killed. How do we know its telling the truth. How do we know that they are just saying 2 when in reality it is 20 and if they mentioned 20 the morale of the ppl would go down. HOW do we know they aint doing this? Y is every news channel a supporter of its government and never says bad things about their governments? Is it because they are the voice of their government? Is it that they are the tool of propoganda? Look at the Nazis. They used propoganda to hyptonize its ppl and look what Hitler did. They guy nearly took over the whole of Europe and no1 from GERMANY stood up against him and ever since the Germans regret and are sorry for what happened. Are we living in a safer world? Does who live in England do you trust ur government? Ever after they stood in front of the UN and said there are weapons of mass distruction in Iraq. And when u did invade Iraq did u find any WMD? I really dont know who carried out the 911. it could have been al qaeda but then again it could have been bush or even CIA i really dont know but all I know is that whatever they show in the news or even in the newspapers yes gulf news included is not the TRUTH.



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