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Hitler and Churchill Then; Red Chief and SpeedHump Now!


Speedhump
I think rather than asking me so many questions it's time for you to tell us what you consider being 'nice'? You seem to consider that being 'nice' has to involve some exceptional behaviour, as just showing consideration to your fellow man is not 'nice' enough!. Please elaborate.
WhiteJade
Teresa was nice.
You are normal.
Hitler was not nice.
I repeat my point.
Showing consideration to fellow man is just being normal.
So do you mean that it is more than normal to show fellow men consideration? Speedhump
I understand you very well. When more than one person disagrees with you or feels you are being unreasonable, it's 'teamwork'. But you can comment to WhiteJade about me saying 'see?' and that's not. It's another example of your duplicity. Speedhump Thread trashed :( Speedhump
Probably feverishly readng Wikipedia and google.answers to come back on this...:D Red Chief Actually It was a thread where W.Jade paid some attention on huge Chinese casualties in the WWII, right? I didn't mentioned you in my reply but indicated that her thread was out of the main stream discussions here. You only confirmed it trashing here. Yes, I indicated on it to her, as a participant of the discussion. It had nothing in common with the team-work which led by that woman who didn't express her sencible opinion but only exhaled the anger in "supporting" you. Pay attention that I haven't say any rude word in the thread. WhiteJade
It's not about people who you think are as nice as you are, it's about people you hate, who you attacked or are attacking, why do you term them 'not nice'? What standard are you adopting? Is it because you think they don't tip, or express their gratitude or donate? See you are not judging under the same standard here.

They are bad people in behaving like that. Being able to respect or to express gratitude is just being normal. Not being nice. Plus I think tipping is simply a consumption habit. Misery Called Life Modern day Imperialism.
The Conquest - Middle East.
The Invaders, USA, UK, France.
The Objective:- Oil, Oil, Oil!
The Validation of their Actions :- Terrorism, Saddam Hussein, Iran
The Latest Move:- French President Mr. Nicolas Sarzoky has opened a French defense (naval) base in Abu-Dhabi. Described as the first French defense base in the Arabian Gulf, the unit will comprise about 500 personnel drawn mainly from the French Navy. The naval base, dubbed ‘Peace Camp’ is likely to face the Strait of Hormuz, just across from Iran. The strait, which separates the UAE’s neighbors Iran and Oman, is vital as 40 per cent of the world’s crude oil is transported through it.
The move is widely seen as a sign of France’s tougher stance on Iran since Sarkozy took office in 2007. “We are deliberately taking a deterrent stance,” said an aide to Sarkozy. “If Iran were to attack, we would effectively be attacked also.”
How close are we to WWIII ? This time round the difference being should there be a World War only Asia stand to loose! RobbyG
You are on the wrong perspective my friend:
I agree with modern imperialism, but not for obtaining oil resources. Those agreements are in place. Its about avoiding a nuclear arms race with Iran.
The Target: Iran trying to obtain nuclear capability
(first solid and liquid fuel rocket technology capable of carrying nuclear warheads etc, then uranium enrichment for peaceful nuclear facilities towards 'energy independance' and coming up: weapons of mass destruction...)
The defense team: KSA, UAE, Oman, US, UK and France
The objective: protecting technology assets and interests on bilateral agreements on the Arab peninsula
Validation: protecting the supply of 40% of the worlds oil in the center of the world, where Iran is capable of locking down the Hormuz Straits. Why the protection? simple, without oil from the Persian Gulf, the world stops spinning, economically.
'Best part' is: IF Iran acted now in times of a global recession, the world would probably fall into a depression like the 1930's. An oil crisis would just be part of the entire problem. Capital is hard to get nowadays. The barrel would be unaffordable and our world's economies would stop spinning. portland Hmm speaking to this, yup there my be a motive to the oil but its for it to be lower and affordable on the market. 2nd is to avoid any nuclear holocaust and arms race for world dominance. Thats why their trying to put neccessary defences.

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Red Chief
The arms race. :? It sounds like the shot from the past. One country has been dominating in the World from Reagan's era. It's too busy with 2 fronts to open the third one. Misery Called Life Yea the resons are obvious. Safeguarding the Hormuz is of high importance. But is this really gonna deter Iran? Or is there some other agenda in place? In the event of a lock down of the Hormuz by Iran, what happens? This is so remniscent of WWII. RobbyG
What are you talking about son. This has nothing to do with WWII.
World War II was about jews taking away jobs from German people since jews are simply good traders. They know how to make a business run. Thats what caused the rise of Hitler and his NSDAP party.
What remniscent of WWII? WhiteJade
:shock:
WWII was far more than just German VS Jews.
The whole Axis Powers were killing and robbing on the whole Eurasia continent. Do you even have an idea how many people in Asia did Japanese kill during WWII? RobbyG
It started about this little fact and spead accross the world into a holocaust and global power (German Reich) together with its allies (for their own reasons).
The intial reason is very local however.
This quarrel has got nothing but a relation to WWII. Its just about intolerance and stupid pride/injustice.
You can write a never ending story about this subject. I'll end it here if you don't mind ;) Misery Called Life Simple case of allies. Attacking French troops in UAE is equivalent to a war against France. That brings in a whole host of countries into the equation, even though their mainlands were not targetted. An oil embargo would then entail that other Asian countries intervene. And from there on it can very easily spiral out of control! As I said earliar Asia stands to loose! Red Chief The real reason of the WWII was the excessive reparations which Antanta had imposed on Germany after WWI that only Hitler rejected to pay. After WWII Allies eventually forgave some reparations and defeated nations Germany and France established "European Coal and Steel Community" that eventually transformed to EU. WhiteJade Japan's been denying their crime committed during WWII. Misery Called Life
Bang on target. Hitler wanted to abolish the Treaty of Versailles. Robby is also right. Post 1929 severe unemployment gripped Germany and that led to a surge in membership for Hitler's party.
A second cause of World War II was the Appeasement policy which Britain and France followed in the 1930s. This policy was basically one of giving in to Hitler in whatever he wanted. It started when Britain signed a naval agreement with Hitler in 1935, allowing Germany to increase its navy to up to 35 percent of the size of the British navy. Thereafter, France appeased Germany by not taking any action when Hitler remilitarised the Rhineland. Hitler had ordered the troops to retreat upon any form of resistance from the French.
Red Chief Robby is right only in one thing that the World War is the best exit from any economical depression. After WWII the World was in ruins. The only country who made the great leap forward during WWII was the U.S.A. WhiteJade
Don't worry. It is not your first time.
:lol: Speedhump
is it yours? Speedhump
Your words below speak your true thoughts, where your words above do not, your mention of Brits and British three times shows very clearly to everyone here where your comments were aimed. You are being very obviously disingenuous by pretending that you wanted to discuss Chinese war casualties with a Chinese. Sad and obvious. Your added 'pepper' has exploded in your face.
Red Chief MCL, You are right. Anyway I don't see (maybe I don't know) strong ties between US and UAE. It's completely opposite to KSA and Kuweit.It looks like a lack of confidence. In spite of the tension around Irani nuclear program UAE and Iran have always had strong trade ties. Moreover UAE is the main gateway to the Free World for Iran. :) There has been the embargo for selling new technologies to the Iran and I know that some distributors of computer's part lost their contracts due to violation... At the other hand it was the first new military base of France for last 50 years... those nuclear plant talks... the purchasing of French aircrafts.... Red Chief I'm sorry, Speedy, I forgot that you can understand only one sentence in a post (the first or the last one). I wrote about the team-working, not about avoiding mentioning Brits in the post. Of course I did mention. :) I promise to write only one sentence per post in the future. :D RobbyG
+1 point ;)
The UAE has contractual agreed to import the reactor fuel instead of producing and enriching it themselves. There has to be a safe port to monitor these shipments, so I think its basically a French nuclear navy base soon ;)
France will be monitoring the safety of the assets and assisting the logistical part of the imports. If Iran thinks to hijack a reactor fuel product, the French navy is involved from a strategical location right next to Abu Dhabi.
Pressure is building on Iran. Misery Called Life
This has probably something to do with the nuclear deal? Once passed by Congress, a French company will be involved with the building and operations of the reactor.
Part of that clause I think involves continues monitoring of the reactor.
I guess that's why the French are in town! Red Chief I wonder why France, not US, has just opened the base. At the other hand UAE actually was one of a few nation who regularly bought French weapon. Is there any tension between UAE and US? That notorious story of failed deal in purchasing American ports by DP World... Red Chief
He-he... You want too much from this forum. Some people here believe that Brits made the crucial contribution to the victory. Without them all World would speak German or Japanese now.
I'm not quite sure if they know anything about participation China in the war excluding occupations of Hong Kong and Singapore because they were British colonies at that time.
If you say that China lost more than Brits they won't believe you.
:D :D :D Speedhump
Don't start up again or you will regret it!
My tag line about language was taken from an American bumper sticker, they are the guardians of the 'free world' now, whether you like it or not.
You know very well indeed that Britain made a crucial (who said THE crucial?) contribution to WWII. If Britain had not stayed the only single European country not under German rule (with no outside assistance), then Hitler would have crushed you also. Hitler offered a tempting world-power sharing deal to Britain, he did not want the territories ruled by Britain, and maybe a country with less integirity would have taken the deal. That would have sunk Mother Russia inside six months.
Also are you not aware that UK and her dominions were fighting and spilling their own blood in North Africa, Burma, Yugoslavia,, etc., etc. as well as defending their home front? You still have not read any serious history books have you?
I am aware that Russia lost more troops than UK, that is because their troops were shot by their own side if they retreated, also they went into battle disgustingly badly equipped.
More stuff of interest:
It is undeniably true that hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers
did decide to work for the side of Germany during WWII.
[Andrei Andreyevich] Vlasov was a decorated Russian General who fought fiercely against the
Germans to defend Leningrad. But his troops were surrounded and
slaughtered, and Vlasov himself captured by the Germans after hiding
in the swamps for weeks. In captivity, Vlasov -- who apparently
despised Stalin -- agreed to form an Army of Russian defectors who
would fight to defeat Stalin in Russia. The Germans never actually
gave Vlasov his Army, but Russian deserters did, in fact, broadly
support the German war effort. I did not find specific references to
their work as guards on trains, but it is certainly within the realm
of possibility that they performed functions like these.
Two very good summary articles on Vlasov can be found at these sites:
Cecil Adams, of "Straight Dope" fame, offers his take on this history
of Vlasov's infamous army here:
----------
During WWII, did a Soviet general and his men desert to the Nazis?
The man's name was Andrei Andreyevich Vlasov, and we'll get to his
story in a minute. First you need to grasp the enormity of what
happened to Soviet soldiers captured by the Nazis during World War II.
Between five hundred thousand and a million Soviet POWs either
volunteered to fight alongside Nazi troops against their former
comrades or were coerced into doing so. Another six million Soviets,
many of them POWs, were forced into German slave-labor battalions that
manufactured war materiel. At the end of World War II, a total of
about two million Russians came under the control of advancing
American and British forces, many of whom had contributed (voluntarily
or not) to the German war effort. Those in charge knew that Stalin
considered these people collaborators or traitors, and in truth many
of them did see the Soviet system as a hateful cancer on Mother
Russia. Yet the western Allied forces--under supreme commander
Eisenhower--repatriated virtually all the Russians to the Soviet
Union, in some cases forcibly, knowing full well they were sending
them to their doom.?
----------
A U.S. commanding officer from WWII offers his personal recollection
of Vlasov?s surrender to the American?s:
General Vlasov's Army
In the final days of World War II a complete German army composed of
white Russians surrendered to the American forces in Czechoslovakia.
This was General Vlasov's Army trying to avoid capture by the
Russians.
At the time, I was assigned to a Combat Command to classify roads and
bridges and measure road blocks that needed to be removed by the
engineers. All at once the column stopped and so I proceeded up the
road in front of the column to see what the problem was...
...Soon after, an army of German soldiers came marching down the road
in full dress carrying white flags. It turned out that these were
white Russians who had joined the German forces because their
political views were opposed to Stalin and the Red Russian communists.
----------
There is one other infamous aspect of Vlasov's tale. At the end of
WWII, he and his men tried to surrender to the Americans, in order to
avoid being returned to Russia and to certain death. President
Roosevelt, however, had secretly entered into an agreement with the
Russians to repatriate all troops and prisoners, so that Vlasov and
thousands of other deserters, were returned to Russia, and a great
many of them were killed as deserters.
An interesting, if somewhat unorthodox take on Vlasov and the
repatriation issue can be seen at the site of the Future of Freedom
Forum:
Repatriation -- The Dark Side of World War II Red Chief
Who told you what I know? I know that Brits struggled against, ("suffered from" is better word) Germans, that's all.
US also used UK as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for bombing the most beautiful German cities, like Hannover, Humburg and Cologne etc. They were totally destroyed. I saw by my own eyes that there are only a few old buildings in these cities now. :twisted:
Don't worry about Mother Russia. Nobody has been able to defeat her for 600 years. You have to accept her presence regardeless of your desire.
:D :D :D

Please tell me what kind of a deal you are talking about because I know only Molotov (the "inventer" of Molotov cocktail) - Ribbentrop packt about sharing Europe. :) Speedhump
Why should I be surprised if you tip washroom attendants? Please tell me where did that idea come from? I'm disappointed in you. I never claimed to be the only nice person here.
What I find very weird is that you do not consider that it is an expression of 'niceness'. People that treat manual workers as dirt are no less nice then? People that can feel sympathy and/or like to express grattude are 'nice' people. Empathising/sympathising (as opposed to expressing such emotions without feeling them, which is completely different) is clearly a trait of nice people. I find your reasoning strange. Of course, you are entitled to follow it. Red Chief Double post. RobbyG You two could be really good friends you know that :lol: Red Chief
I've never said that I hate you. Moreover I respect you as the honest man except your participation in the team-working. WhiteJade
Will you be surprised that I tip washroom attendants, thank street workers and donate, too? People do this simply out of sympathy or gratitude. These aren't eloquent enough to prove that you are a nice person. What is your defination of being nice?
Do I have to remind you that this is a public forum? That I can comment on anything, with or without 'factual statement'. I'd also like to remind you that you are free not to respond to my factless comments.
I am no puppet of anyone unless I want to be. I give my nod to some other DFers ideas. That's it. WhiteJade SH, I got it. There are things: 1. you just love to talk about; 2. you just love to talk bad about (ok, you don't talk bad about things, you just happen to have a list of their bad aspects) 3. you choose to ignore. Here's another topic you can write an essay on: Munich Agreement Speedhump
All I did was respond to a prod. Why do you attack me?
The Munich Agreeent was made between several European leaders to try to prevent a war in Europe. Hitler broke the terms of the agreement by an act of aggression against another European power, the British Government were shamed (as were France and Italy), and Britain then correctly declared war in defence of Europe. I have no idea what your point is. You 'got' nothing! Speedhump
Twice as much bullsh*t woud not be good..... Speedhump
As I said, you really should not be taking generally aggressive postures against me when your knowledge of the subject is so poor. But as you have this time asked a reasonable question I can answer (not in my own words as I don't have the time to get involved in your education to such an extent! ;):
For 20 years Hitler had dreamed of an alliance with Britain. Until far into the war he clung to the dream with all the vain, slightly ridiculous tenacity of a lover unwilling to admit that his feelings are unrequited. As Hitler told Maj. Quisling on August 18, 1940: “After making one proposal after another to the British on the reorganization of Europe, I now find myself forced against my will to fight this war against Britain. . . .”
German Gen. Blumentritt states why Hitler allowed the British to escape:
He [Hitler] then astonished us by speaking with admiration of the British Empire, of the necessity for its existence, and the civilization that Britain had brought into the world. He remarked with a shrug of the shoulders, that the creation of the Empire had been achieved by means that were often harsh, but “where there is planning there are shavings flying.” He compared the British Empire with the Catholic Church—saying they were both essential elements of stability in the world. He said that all he wanted from Britain was that she should acknowledge Germany’s position on the continent. The return of Germany’s lost colonies would be desirable but not essential, and he would even offer to support Britain with troops if she should be involved in any difficulties anywhere.
Blumentritt’s statement is not the only notice about Hitler’s hope of peace and friendship with England. The renowned Swedish Explorer Sven Hedin observed Hitler’s confusion about Britain’s refusal to accept his peace offers: Hitler “felt he had repeatedly extended the hand of peace and friendship to the British, and each time they had blacked his eye in reply.” Hitler said, “The survival of the British Empire is in Germany’s interests too because if Britain loses India, we gain nothing thereby.” Red Chief
Minich collusion, you wanted to say.
Why I'm not surprised that Uncle Joe agreed with Ribbentrop-Molotov packt jast after that.
Hitler foolled both partners. :D WhiteJade
It was not an attack. It's an opinion. You've yours and I've mine.
Munich Agreement, which agreed Germany to take charge of an area that belonged to Czechoslovakia was signed without the presence of Czechoslovakia. It was an ugly deal. You have to admit that.
1. you loved to talk about the Great Britain's efforts to save herself and other countries during WWII;
2. you listed captured Soviets betraying their motherland. Yeah you were just telling true history.
3. you choose to ignore that RC's post was mostly about him knowing some about what happened in Asia during WWII.
That's what I got. Red Chief Speedy, even British Arab applies some source in case of citation. Why don't you, Brave Colonel, do that? All you wrote here are some dreams of the same colonels as you or random citation. It looks like "Memoirs of Geisha" as the last evidence for the WWII. I was talking about some "Memorandums" or "Projects of agreement". It could be right if Hitles had some feeling to the British as nation, but actually UK was his permanent enemy. Misery Called Life All this talk bout the war reminds me of the comedy series Allo Allo WJ from where you from? China? Korea? North or South? SH interesting take on Hitler and his fondness for the British empire. I was not aware of that. I got an idea for an attraction at the Mall of the Emirates. Speedie and RC in a no-holds-barred debate on the virtues of Russia and the UK or anything.The two of them should be hilarious. A real crowd puller. On a more serious note:- Who here think that a WWIII could actually take place? Bora Bora
Come on Ivan, let's get out of here before you do some damage.

Red Chief MCL, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. DF has been so boring recently.:) I added some pepper. Misery Called Life
No dude don't apologize. Just keep it going. I find the two of you to be very informative and highly entertaining :) Speedhump
Sudetenland belonged to Germany until WW1. They wanted it back and yes obviously the Czechs would not want to give it to them. The idea of the agreement with or without the agreement of the current 'occupiers' of th Sudentenland was to prevent a war in Europe, did I explain that? I did not say it was correct as it was appeasement policy only. Speedhump Jade you clearly missed the main point of his post which was two attacks on 'people here' who exaggerate Britain's role in WWII. In case you have no idea, he was talking about me. That was his point dear, you missed it entirely by just readng his post at face value. Never a good idea with him! Bora Bora
I think his history precedes him. When isn't he attacking someone?
The problem is that too many people comment on the most recent couple of posts, rather than reading the thread from the beginning.
Actually SH, I think the worm is slowly turning if you get my drift. Red Chief So gloomy face, Speedy. Be positive!!! 8) 8) 8) Changes? Yes, we can. Speedhump
Look as I said I am not here to educate you. The facts I stated are widely known, if you would like to do your own research you will find them, I know you are an able internet user.
Blumentritt was a German not a British officer, that's a start for you. Speedhump
Me gloomy??? NEVER?? :D
I have the Dunkirk Spirit.... :P
Quote: 'How do you keep that pre-war feeliing?' :D :D Speedhump
Bora if you read this thread from the beginning your head will spin, it has taken a few turns.... :P Speedhump
Our Chief of Staff has something like Attention Deficit Disorder...he finds it hard going if there isn't a lively ' debate' somewhere! :D
Liken it to a mind with a snowstorm continually raging inside, it needs strong stimulation or it doesn't function! 8) :lol:
No offence to the brave captain! Speedhump Cheif, I am pressed for time today, we can carry on tomorrow if you need to. read the following, it is th quote from the german general's journal: on May 24th, 1940, while the campaign was still in progression, Hitler expressed a deeper, more political motive, to members of Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt’s staff. This was reported by General Blumentritt to Liddell Hart, and I feel it is necessary to quote extensively from Blumentritt’s narrative: “Hitler was in a very good humor, he admitted that the course of the campaign had been ‘a decided miracle,’ and gave us his opinion that the war would be finished in six weeks. After that he wished to conclude a reasonable peace with France, and then the way would be free for an agreement with Britain. “He then astonished us by speaking with admiration of the British Empire, of the necessity for its existence, and of the civilization that Britain had brought into the world. He remarked, with a shrug of the shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had been achieved by means that were often harsh, but ‘where there is planing, there are shavings flying.’ He compared the British Empire with the Catholic Church, saying they were both essential elements of stability in the world. He said that all he wanted from Britain was that she should acknowledge Germany’s position on the Continent. The return of Germany’s lost colonies would be desirable but not essential, and he would even offer to support Britain with troops if she should be involved in any difficulties anywhere. He remarked that the colonies were primarily a matter of prestige, since they could not be held in war, and few Germans could settle in the tropics. “He concluded by saying that his aim was to make peace with Britain on a basis that she would regard as compatible with her honor to accept.” +++ QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM. Bora Bora
Oh, I did read it and it was kept on track until there were two useless comments by one person (the worm slowly turning), and the deliberate diversion by the other, who admitted the hijacking, which has not been his first, but is quick to pounce on someone else when he doesn't like the direction a thread is taking. If someone is bored and wants to debate then they should take that time and educate themselves to at least give an intelligent argument.
Hats off to you, you are a very patient man. Red Chief Speedy, I has been really interested in this issue after very informative post of Dubai Knight in that notorious thread. It isn't so easy but there is some thuth beneath your post. No real facts though. See you tomorrow. WhiteJade
Oops I apologize for breaking in on the flirting between you two.
:lol: Red Chief
Don't apologize, WhiteJade. He really does have no idea how huge Chinese casualties were. Moreover he doesn't care...
Unfortunately there are a lot of such Speedies on DF. :( Speedhump It is truly pathetic of you to say that I don't care how many Chinese died in WWII. You are a very shabby excuse for a human. Why should I not care, if you read any of my posts apart from the ones where I have to take you apart brick by brick you would see that I am an intelligent caring person and treat all people the same. That will be apart from you of course. So finally it is shown that you are in fact as biased and hating a person as you seemed to me at the start. A shame, I won't waste any more time talking to you apart from to annoy you Trotsky. Speedhump
No he's finally shown his true xenophobic colours yet again. I forgive and forget for anyone once, but not twice. Red Chief
Speedy, it was not about caring person. It was mostly about island mentality in common. I used to think that you make some arrogant statements deliberately but later I understood that you don't even notice the tone of them. At the other hand you are not alone, even DK made such statement in his polemic with tough guy Muslimbangladeshi, although DK's another statements were clearer and more honest than yours (I don't want to insult). Without me all those statements passed through because as a rule locals and South Asian are not interested in WWII. One day I made my tone softer because you were at least absolutely honest.
The last post only sounds a little bit tougher because IMHO W. Jade don't need to apologize at all, even as a joke. Probably I overreacted a bit, because WWII is not only history for me. What wrong did I say? You didn't know even approximate casualties of SU, your ally in the War in Europe, in that thread, so I was not waiting for your knowledge about China. At the other hand you have good knowledge about all, even insignificant fights, in which UK or its colonies participated. WhiteJade
It's ok. I was just playing.
:lol: WhiteJade
Bad asses never declare they are nice people.
That's what so charming about them.
:roll: WhiteJade
How can you be so sure that you are the one to forgive rather than to be forgiven? Speedhump
I'm sorry you are the arrogant one. You believe you know the inner thoughts of everyone who writes here. Also you NEVER offer facts, only criticism of others, in an attempt to provoke anger and argument, while pretending that you are not.

What, did you take some sort of a quiz recently on WII so you can reel off statistics about casualties, dates, and all the rest for every nation? What is your problem? And those that don't have the facts in the front of their minds therefore have no feelings for people of other nationalities who died? How stupid and ignorant that thinking is. I didnt see one single fact from you, only attacks on other people. That, my friend, is boorish arrogance of an unsurpassed degree. Thinking that you can just come here and ask other people to display their knowledge while offering none yourself (for obvious reasons).
You seem to feel that these forums only exist to have stupid arguments, and so you 'add pepper' (your own childish words) by attacking people. You feel that these forums used to be 'more interesting', I presume you mean that there aren't so many people now who will engage in your ridiculous wars. Well I have had enough of them for sure, I wish more people would speak up and say that these fights which you start (and they are not just with me) are spoiliing proper discussion. Speedhump
So now we know you like pretty looking bad boys. And the point is?
:roll: Speedhump
I thought you wanted to debate the Munich Agreement. if you do then it's your turn. Speedhump
Show me where this was true or otherwise I will have to call you MR FACTLESS from now on, as you have never once replied to a single polite request of mine in any thread to prove your comments about what I have said (as your comments have always been untrue and unfair).
Over to you Pushkin, tell me a story. Red Chief Every nation? China and Russia together lost 45-50 million people, much more than the rest of the World combined... It's the fact, not so significant of course as "Miracle in Dunkirk". You can see W.Jade that I was absolutelly right. WhiteJade
My point is: do not make lame declarations that you are a nice person while you are attacking people. When you attack, you are showing your dark side. Just be comfortable with it. Speedhump
I don't attack, I defend. You are so stubborn you refuse to see that the attack is from the other side always, goading and prodding about the 'Englishness' that Trotsky hates so much. I have every right to stomp on him for his xenophobia. It doesn't mean I hate Russians. Just one of them.
I am nice, I know it, so do many people. I tip toilet attendants, I thank street workers, I give to charity. I hold doors open for men and women alike. But I dislike ignorant boorish people. The two are not mutually exclusive, can you really not understand that?
Can you plase stop commenting on my posts unless you have some factual statement to make, because you are rapidly turning into Trotsky's sock puppet. Thanks. Speedhump
Haha, he has finally found an ally. Be happy together.
Oh, by the way Mr Factless, it's too late to start quoting figures now. You lost when you couldn't show that I 'didn't know' this fact. :D WhiteJade
Out of which only around 12 million were in army. The rest were citizens, slaughtered bare handed. Bora Bora
Debate moderator. And it's back to you...........you have 5 minutes to make your point. Bora Bora
I told you the worm was slowly turning. Red Chief
There is some trace in the previous thread. :D You could've memorized some data from that thread to avoid getting into a mess now. Of couse if you have had some interest outside the Great Island.
Big brother is watching you... Speedhump It's a shame how his hatred is allowed to destroy so many threads. The moderators have no real interest in moderating. It's just 'one naughty word and we'll put it in Fight Club'. Speedhump
Pathetic factless mudslinging as usual, Mr. Factless. Bora Bora
RC clearly thinks there are only two opinions that count: his and those who agree with him. If you disagree with him and make a strong argument that he knows he can't win, slowly he trashes the thread.
Talk about calling the kettle black!!! Little Miss High-and-Mighty is slowly showing her ability to trash a thread or two. I'm sure we can look forward to more of the same. What annoys me is these two only see other people doing it!
The difference between RC and some others and me, along with other DFers, is that we will acknowledge trashing a thread, or as one DFer did, apologize that a thread could have been offensive to another member. We don't try to justify our actions or point fingers at others. I wish more people could owe up to it when they trash a thread or step over a line, and not try excuse themselves for doing it. WhiteJade
Talking about trashing threads.
Some are experts, some are starters.
Know it's not so nice. Everybody knows.
By the way, you are keeping on trashing it by above post. Me by this post. Bora Bora
Obviously you didn't fully read (nothing new there) my post.
Expert here. Starter working her way to becoming one!! WhiteJade
I did fully read your 200-word essay there above.
I choose to respond to part of it, just like what you do.
If I were an expert of trashing threads :lol:
I'd never be proud of it.
I pray not to become one. Red Chief Wow, we have a commentator here. It's free of charge but frankly speaking I don't like any cheese for free. So much sarcasm, bashing (I'm sorry, witty banter) and misplaced comments. OMG she's judging... Brrr.... I'm anxious....(just joking). :D There is definitely nobody as furious as a rejected woman in the World. RobbyG
Oy !
I'm not part of a team effort OK :lol:
anyways: Go SH Go SH ;) Speedhump
Mother Theresa was not 'nice' she was selfless.
Hitler was not 'not nice' he was evil (probably).
Everyday people, like you and I, can be 'nice' or 'not nice'.
Nice is a term which is tepid, it describes small degrees of difference not major ones as you had thought.
I see the problem is in the matter of degree which you do not quite grasp. At least in English, and I am not criticising you for that.
Normal people are rude or polite, honest or dishonest, peaceful or hostile. And so on. Someone who exhibits enough 'favourable' factors will be described as 'nice'. It's as simple as that.
I cant add anything more, so I'll stop at this post.
Edit:spelling and grammar. Bora Bora
You were on your way when you started trashing threads. This thread went downhill when you and your comrade started trashing it. Please take credit for that. You of so few words and thoughts. Bora Bora
You do like free cheese. Or did they stop handing it out on the food line?
And once again, talking through your piehole. I guess that is what one can expect from a reject from society. Is sarcasm, bashing, and witty banter something you think you have the exclusive on? WhiteJade
Me and my comrades, including you.

I did and I still do. Again you are doing it by above post and me by this post. So why not just stop.

I assume you constantly make such comments just out of sheer good will. Speedhump
I repeat, at the risk of being tedious :
Your mention of Brits and British three times shows very clearly to everyone here where your comments were aimed. You are being very obviously disingenuous by pretending that you wanted to discuss Chinese war casualties with a Chinese. Sad and obvious. Your added 'pepper' has exploded in your face.
Nothing else needs to be said. Bora Bora
My comments - just to enlighten you of your depth (or should I say lack of depth).
And by no means am I a comrade of yours!!! Please note: A mate, companion, or associate; A companion in battle, fellow soldier; A fellow socialist or Communist; Comrade Lenin
And you can post one more time, having the last word, which is what you want. And when you are finished, put your thumbs in your ears, wiggle your fingers and chant: nah nah nah nah nah. WhiteJade
Mean and ridiculous attacks.
Your name is master.
You win. Go celebrate. Bora Bora
:thumbup: :thebirdman: Misery Called Life
There is a difference between being nice and being selfless.
Being nice is simply the equivalent of posessing ethics. Thats All.
Mother Theresa was not nice..... She was Selfless. She was scrificial.And her sacrifice was her life.
So at the end of WWII millions of Chinese alongwith million others were killed. How has that changed the present? China is still hell bent on the ethnic cleansing of Tibet.
The war in Georgia after provocation left so many devastated.
And Britain is still fighting internal ad external demons.
Mob Mentality still prevails in India. Just look at the riots there.
Mankind is just a sacrificial lamb.
Patriotism, Religion, Power the reason for so many wars, has left us devoid of any sense of humanity.
So quit counting the numbers dead, cause they are insignificant! Period! WhiteJade
Being disabled with only two fingers must be really depressing. WhiteJade
MODs! WhiteJade
Those are far more than numbers. That's it.
You should get your thread back on track. Bora Bora It appears that MCL is trying to get his thread on track, but I guess he didn't have something nice to say about "C". Seems that someone who hijacked it is advising MCL to get it back on track. :hmph: FYI: Those two fingers speaks volumes!!! Misery Called Life
I see my attempt at philosophy didn't impress you too much. Won't be trying that again! :lol: WhiteJade
You should have stopped long back! :lol: Speedhump
On these forums philosophy is 'pearls before swine', I would never attempt a serious discussion; save it for when you're with your friends tonight. Some people here only understand statistics, and/or can only hold one single opinion at a time. Misery Called Life
You mean I should've stepped in long back! :lol: Bora Bora
Touche!!!! :lol: And she will be here in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, ...... Misery Called Life

You guys right. I think it's just the weather. It's getting to everyone.
:lol: Bora Bora
Better the weather than someone. :lol: Bora Bora
SH, way too many times I see you trying to have a serious discussion with interesting information. Don't stop on account of a couple of people who really aren't worth it. Misery Called Life
Anyday!
We should be UN Peacekeepers. :lol: Speedhump
You go for it. I'll take the nuclear route... Bora Bora
Can I wear my helmut??
Speedhump The Robster will be here with some 'horny' jokes in 5,4,3,2..... :D Bora Bora Nah, he found that the forum has a new GEM. He's probably sniffing around as we talk. Misery Called Life

Two oldies reminiscing their younger days. Awww it's so cute! :lol: :lol: Bora Bora
Well, we can only hope that you learn something from it. :lol: Speedhump
LOL...MCL listen and learn! And dont forget you're only as old as the person you're feelíng :P RobbyG
Hail to the young minds !!! :lol:
We have to provide for the future :lol: :wink: portland just got back from a bc week now it weekend... what happen to this thread? anyways hae a nice weekend pipol WhiteJade Nothing happened. It's just TRASHED. Bora Bora Someone is cranky without their umbrella. I guess that's why she was one of the original people to TRASH the thread. Red Chief Speedy, I've just watched some documentary about War in Europe. There is an episode about Dunkirk in this British film, as well. According to the film, weapons of BEF was much worse than German's ones - some armored vehicles against panzers. It proved that not only Russians were incapable on the initial stage of the war.
The folder of the disk impressed me even more than the film itself.
In the foreground we can see colour photo of Churchill in parade military uniform, on the background we can see blind images of cartoonish Hitler and Stalin who hid behind the Churchil's Victory gesture. Looking at the photo young generation could think that Churchil won both of them: Hitler and Stalin. :) It's a witty banter but I must say that British propaganda, especially military one, existed and exists. So I'm not surprized your reaction. Speedy, patriotism is good but separate it from propaganda please. It's good only during a war. All wars were over so far.
Speedhump
It's not just propaganda, Russia was no friend of the UK either before or after the war. We were just uneasy allies against the Axis powers. It's not strange that Stalin and Hitler should both be shown in the background.
The Russian army was not just equipped with poor weaponry, as was most of Europe including the UK, but also often only had one gun for every two or three men they sent into battle. But of course the Germans were vastly superior in the early stages of the war in Europe. That was really throught their genius fastmoving Blitzkrieg tactics than any true weaponry superiority. They sent the British home there's no doubt. I don't shout propaganda, I know the truth.
No-one could match the power of the German Panzer and Tiger tanks later in the war, the 88mm gun was just too powerful. But the large number of medium tanks possessed by the Allies worked well.
By the way, every power that took a major part in winning the war claims their effort as most important. But the Americans are the worst by far. Did you ever watch any American war films?
The superiority of German second-generation tanks was not met until the end of the war, but the Germans had already lost the initiative by 1943. The sheer power of American production, superior combined-arms tactics and German errors on all levels meant that the American forces generally prevailed. Interestingly, this was the same pattern that was seen at the beginning of the war, when weakly armored and undergunned German panzers crushed their much more powerful French, British and Soviet opponents in the early blitzkriegs. Speedhump By the way, I forgot to say, the Russian T34 tank was excellent, tough and reliable and there were many of them. Red Chief This film is about War in Europe. At that we were allies. Certainly I know who was, is and will be the main enemies of Russia. Now I doubt whether we needed such allies. Americans? Yes? Brits? Definitely not. As for tanks. Yes, Tiger was almost impossible to destroy by usual tanks. The majority of these tanks were destroyed from air when they ran out of fuel. It happened due to allies had destroyed the majority of plant which produced artificial liquid fuel from coal. However those tanks were produced in quantity 500 pieces only and so had a little influence. Other German's tanks were more out-of-date, than the Soviet tanks. The Soviet union produced several hundred thousand average tanks T-34. It was the only tank that produced on the conveyor. It was a strong technical advantage. Do you really think, what it was possible to win such war having one rifle per three persons? By the end of 1943 we completely exsanguinated Germany and shifted the battles outside our borders. At that time they started drafting fourteen-year teenagers and producing armored vehicles instead of tanks Speedhump
The Russians halted the German advance through scorched earth tactics, denying the advancing enemy any logistical help, and stretching their re-supply lines to the maximum, especialy due to the fact that German trains could not run on Russian rail gauge. Also due to the coming of winter conditions, making the dangerous German fast movng battle tactics impossible. Also through sheer weight of numbers, they threw vast numbers of troops, hence the horrific casualties. They won by attrition. Also each German tank might destroy 5-10 Russian tanks before being destroyed itself, but the Russian tanks kept coming because they were quick and simple to build, so the numbers were always there.
About the ' one rifle to three russian troops' , I will research that better. I have certainly seen and heard it a few times. Let's see the reality of it.
The Alliance including Russia was a matter of convenience for all sides fighting the Axis. There was some cooperation during the war, but immediately afterwards the US and UK saw that Stalin woud not in truth change his plans for Empire expansion, so the Cold War started. Stalin was still intent on Marxist-Leninist world domination, and the extinction of capitalism. Not an ally the West ever wanted, but instead there was temporary mutual need.
I also agree that our countries will not be allies again in a major conflict in our lifetimes. Not a problem.
Red Chief
This reality concerns the First World War. Probably it's the root of this urban legend. By 1943 we produces more automatic guns than Germans did. It's a merit of our women and children. Speedhump
Russia anyway certainly 'tooled up' for war quickly once it became involved. But in 1941-2:
&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=%22in+this+state+the+divisions+are+not+battleworthy%22&source=bl&ots=3mNc3yIvtC&sig=h1YKND2PUo7Duq8rD9HAJogvlY8&hl=en&ei=1mkmSvbOLpKMNenN8YUF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA120,M1
Pages 120 AND 121, Red Chief It isn't a secret that in the first a few months of war we lost a big part of our army and the most part of our planes which had been destroyed in the airports. The same happened everywhere in Europe. The only difference was that Russians didn't have an island to run. As a result Moscow's militia fought for Moscow.. Certainly they had been trained badly. So casualties were enormous. This book does not explain the permanent series of victories after Stalingrad's battle in 1943. The Stalingrad's encirclement hit Germany deadly. The battle near Kursk was purely tank's battle - the first in the history. It would be impossible to win whatever advantage in infantry you had. As for German's tanks superiority you are definitely not right. T-34 couldn't win against Tiger and Panther, but it was more modern than vast majority of the rest of German panzers. Moreover it had diesel engine. As you know diesel fuel is not so easy to fire as petrol. So it was much more viable. Another advantage that it's repairable just behind the front line, but Germans delivered Tigers for repair to Germany by train. As for weaponry. I agree that America had strongly helped us with trucks Studebeker and Dodge 3/4 and in lesser degree with planes. All the rest was domestic production. On the other hand England bought most of weapons in US, didn't it? Anyway when was the era of special relationship between US and UK really started? You told about lend-lease, which you repaid to 2006 only, but I read in a British book about some credits for purchasing American goods before The Great Depression. Speedhump I think Tiger was pretty unreliable. Also as the war went on the quality of German steel deteriorated and their tanks were not as indestructible as before. Tiger was a very good tank hull down, in defense mode only. Panther was a different beast. I think I'm right. If a detachment of T-34's came against a Tiger or Panther in open territory they would win the day thru numbers, but some would be destroyed. One of two would probably get a flank shot on the German and that would be that, finally. The Allies used a lot of US equipment, the M3 and M4 tanks were everywhere I think. About pre-Depression era US/UK finance I don't have knowledge. I can't think of any reason for it, I don't think the first war was such a financial drain on UK reserves? Red Chief
Speedy, your assumption isn't confirmed by facts. English book (as soon as you don't trust any Russian one) tell us following:
On July 12, 1943 some 800 T-34s were to confront more than 600
German tanks at Prokhorovka in the Kursk salient, in the largest tank battle of the war.
It's not clear how many from those tanks Tigers were, but the quantity of the Soviet tanks was not suppressing, but was enough for the victory.
And one more citation about Soviet progress in critical 1943 of war.
Between July and October 1943, the number of (German) irreplaceable losses in the east (Kursk and Dnieper) had reached 365.000. Kursk involved 1,3 million Soviet troops compared with 900.000 Germans, while on the Dniepr in October the Red Army had 2,6 million troops against 1,2 million Germans, and 4:1 superiority in tanks and guns.
You can see that situation for Germans had been changes from approximately equal to desperate for a few months. It happened a year before opening Western fronts in 1944. Speedhump
Thanks for the information. I also can't find how may Tigers and Panthers were present, but the side were almost equal in numbers (in tank divisions anyway. Although the tank battle was huge this was also an infantry and artillery battle). Anyway the Russian tanks carried the day, thank God.
I have always had a prejudice against Russian records from the past, you must understand why:
“A common thread throughout my work is the desire to bring to light the voices of the average Russian soldier, the private in the trenches,” Britton said. “They were banned from writing about their experiences for decades and, during the war, they were not permitted to keep diaries or notebooks.
“So, for decades, German sources dominated our understanding of the Eastern Front.”
It could be a good book to read, it was published in 2007 according to the web article.
Lastly, and I don't intend to keep bashing on about it, but you did shout me down before in anothet thread. Hitler may well have won on the Eastern Front if he had not had to keep armies of the Reich on two other fronts. The Western Front had to be well manned even though it was not attacked until later, as you rightly say. Also making Hitler fight on a second front in North Africa from 1940 onwards helped divide his forces.
Anyway, I think I don't want to consider the Eastern Front any more for the time being. The horrors we all know, the biggest land battle the world ever saw. Hitler and Stalin both were men who would throw massive amounts of human life away with no second thought. portland the nazis U boat is a great treat during the World War until the US made the submarines. Speedhump
This is only correct in small part.
U-boats were mainly a threat to merchant shipping, the war could have been ended quickly if Allied forces had not been able to arrange re-supply.
Cargo ships sailing alone were being sunk at a much faster rate than they could be built.
The U-boat threat was very much reduced when the Allies started to use a convoy system guarded by several warships, mostly destroyers and one or two other ships, maybe light cruisers, etc.
If the Nazis had been able to stop the supply ships they would have starved Britain into submission and also prevented around 20 percent of overseas re-supply to Russia via the Barents Sea (where my father was operating in the British Navy, on a destroyer, helping in his small part to keep the Russian war effort working).
The British decoded the German Enigma code very often and could divert convoys away from german wolf packs of u-boats and also send warships to destroy them.
+++
Barents Sea convoys sailed from the Uk and from Iceland:
Early shipments proved of little use, but the supplies of US trucks, boots, and telephone equipment shipped up to the beginning of 1942 were, almost certainly, of critical importance to the USSR during the fighting that summer in the German–Soviet war though Soviet historians were only just beginning to acknowledge the part played by Lend-Lease before the USSR was dissolved in December 1991. Although the tonnage delivered was small at first, the convoys were—apart from the strategic air offensive against Germany—the only weapon Churchill possessed with which to counter Stalin's demands for a Second Front (see Grand Alliance).
+++ Red Chief
Nobody could have won the war by staying on the island most of the time and having only 300.000 dead in the end. You were mostly spectators of that bloody show despite that Churchil's victory gesture. That's why that collage looks so ridiculous.
Anyway I understand your feeling.
War is a business of young guys - the best medication from wrinkles(c) One Russian singer.
8) 8) 8) Red Chief
It was the real help. It's strange but British veterans of those convoys have more respect rather in Russia, than in Britain. Recently a few veterans have been invited to Murmansk to an anniversary of convoys. The Russian government has paid for their air tickets and accomodation in Murmansk . Those veterans have been very touched, because it looks like nobody remembers about them in UK on the government's level. Speedhump My last word.
British troops were fighting all over the world. What does it matter that our resources were stretched and the US had unlimited resources? Of course one of our main contributions was our intellience, and I don't just mean brain power. At the start of World War II, British ASDIC (SONAR) technology was given free to the United States. Also it was the British who first used radar as a defence against aircraft attack. Also it was British who captured the first german Enigma code machine and the British who broke the code (despite ridiculous American fiction films which claim the honour...).
It was the British who completely broke the German air force in the Battle of Britain in the skies of the UK, while Britain was forced into a purely defensive action.
From 1941 onwards Britain poured immense resources into its fleets of strategic bombers. The expense was vast. Between 1942 and D-Day, the RAF bombers were easily the most powerful and spectacular single weapon in Allied hands in Western Europe. Whether you like the bombings or not, they were a key to sapping German morale and crushing its industry. Just as Hitler was trying to do to the UK. He destroyed the city of Coventry with indiscriminate bombs.
British and Indian forces tied up the Imperial Japanese Army in Burma for the duration of the war .
British, ANZAC and South African troops first drove the Italians out of North Africa and then defeated the Germans at El Alamein in 1942.
You really have a small minded view of history. As I said, it's those Russian history books mate. The side who had the most of their people killed did the most? Silly really.....
I don't intend to open up this conversation again. That's me finished so carry on . ;) Red Chief
I agree that it was the main reason why Hitler didn't capture UK. It was not due to the eternal love to British, as you said before. You couldn't have won Germany by fighting alone. We could have.

It was my joke with a feeling of regret. Of course I estimates a harm from bombing very high. Besides Dresden, allies bombed synthetics petrol plants, plants of Krupp, Daimler and Messer-Schmidt. As I remember US 4-engines bombers made the main contribution though.

They were Italians mostly, as you know. That's why you won. The peaceful Italian soldiers did have nothing in common with German SS panzer Corps, whom Red Army fought with near Prokhorovka.

The side who killed and destroyed the vast majority of German troops and weapons (I showed you that. Play fair.) definitely won War in Europe. Is it better? Nobody could win any war without blood. That's true. Speedhump Once Hitler understood that the British would never join him then he fought us. Before that it is quite clearly true that his admiration of Britain was the reason why the Dunkirk evacuation proceeded with minimal casualties. However once Britain had left all her equipment on the French beaches there was no way back into Europe without US help. As you saw, the US was also giving lease-lend to Russia. Peaceful Italian soldiers :D :D Yes true, they finally came over to our side and then didn't like the idea of fighting to defend their own country... Italian tanks, one forward gear and three reverse, the old jokes, but with truth behind them. It is agreed by most historians (outside of Russia anyway) that without the Axis countries needing to man the Western Front awaiting the inevitable invasion (as the US had joined the War) and also defend in Greece where the British were pretending to mount an invasion force but in truth were only sending some troops to help the resistance movement, and also fight in North Africa, Russia would have been trampled by Hitler, the Eastern Front would have been closed before the awful winter came (for which conditions Russian troops were obviously much better prepared) and bogged down the onslaught. But we do agree that the contribution of Russia to the War effort was huge, the biggest single contribution to the War in terms of men and pain. I never denied that. Red Chief
Why am I not surprised? One of those "historians" made that ridiculous collage. It's one more LIE which British propaganda cooked.
By the way I quoted British honest book. Facts, stated in that book, show prejudice of "most historians" (if they exists outside your imagination).
Details of the book:
"WORLD WAR II"
H.P. WILLMOTT, ROBIN CROSS, CHARLES MESSENGER
In every bookstore across the U.A.E. now. Speedhump It's unfortunate that you follow the blind Russian view (that the rest of the world does not agree with) that Russia and only Russia won the War against Facism. You only echo your madman Putin, known more for his aggression than his intelligence. Speedhump Any honest account of the battle for Moscow would undermine the Soviet story line of "The Great Patriotic War." Those sanitized versions, now reinforced in the era of President Vladimir Putin, portray Joseph Stalin as a military genius and his people as heroically united against the German invader. (It's no coincidence that Stalin's reputation plummets when there's a period of liberalization in Russia and rises when there's a new clampdown.) But it was Stalin's blunders, incompetence and brutality that made it possible for German troops to approach the outskirts of Moscow—and to kill or capture so many Soviet troops along the way. Stalin was ultimately saved by Hitler’s even bigger blunders. The German dictator sent his armies into Russia in late June 1941 without winter clothing: the Führer was convinced they would triumph before the weather turned. By mid-July, the Germans had advanced to the Smolensk region, and Hitler’s generals, like the panzer commander Heinz Guderian, wanted to keep driving due east to Moscow, only about 230 miles away. But Hitler ordered them to turn south and take the Ukraine first. They did, losing precious time in the process. Stalin's mistakes were never mentioned in the official histories. Nor do those accounts admit that if it weren't for Hitler's even greater mistakes, Stalin wouldn't have been able to save his capital—and, quite possibly, might never have prevailed in the larger struggle. Speedhump ....much of the story of how close Moscow came to falling—a defeat that would likely have transformed the course of the war—has been obscured by decades of deliberately distorted history. Now it's a story that can be told. Russia got lucky, because the Nazi army was divided between several fronts. I told you twice already. Speedhump Nevermind that Stalin 's pact with Hitler gave the Nazi war machine free reign to conquer most of Western Europe in 1940, or that Stalin's dogged insistence that Hitler would never betray him allowed the invaders to methodically encircle the Red Army's corps until they reached the gates of Moscow in December 1941. Cheats and liars both. Speedhump American lend-lease provided the Soviets with hundreds of thousands of light and heavy duty trucks. The Red Army could not have transformed itself from a horse supplied force to a highly mobile war machine without these American imports. Red Chief Peaceful Italian soldiers. Actually I have information from the first hands. Despite being in occupation, my grandma keeps good memory about Italian soldiers. They paid for food and accommodation. They also helped in housework and farm work. They never insulted Russian people, who mostly were women and children in the occupation. There is even more amazing fact about my grandma's village. There were a strong blizzard in winter 1943. So one Italian officer made an order to disassemble wooden school to use wood for heating houses in the villages. In 1993 he came back to the village and and voluntary financed construction of a new brick school. It was really human deed that touched everyone. Speedhump You take a deliberately one-sided view of events, forcing me to do the same. That's how you start arguments on thes forums, I have noticed. Speedhump
I was agreeing that they are peaceful.
And of course they would not insult the women, because as normal Italians they wanted to get inside their underwear. Speedhump Also I did tell you before that the Red Army was badly equipped at some points, another reason for the huge castualties as Stalin told his troops that anyone retreating would find a Russian gun at their head (so they run towards the enemy without even a rifle, almost 2 million Russians died in the battle for Moscow): Excerpt from By Andrew Nagorski Newsweek Sept. 10, 2007 issue many Soviet troops were sent into battle without guns. Ilya Druzhnikov, a book illustrator dispatched to the front, recalled that there was only one rifle available for every 10 men in his unit. This meant that unarmed soldiers trailed each armed man, waiting for him to fall so that one of them could pick up his weapon. Red Chief
I was waited for such reply from you, Speedy. It shows one more time how you like stereotypes.
In any other case I could support your joke but I am talking about women and children in the occupation who had actually no rights and man’s protection.
Romanians in the neighboring village had totally different behavior. That’s why local inhabitance has only hate towards them. Speedhump Why do stereotypes exist? Red Chief
Hitler made a lot of mistakes but you didn’t indicate the main one. I will quote from another English book:
Red Chief
By the way if some people had thought about a defeat of Russia after seizure of Moscow they would have been strongly disappointed.
We evacuated all our military plants to Ural Mountains, Volga River and Central Asia (a few thousands kilometers away from Moscow). Russian government was ready to evacuate from Moscow, but Muscovites weren’t.
As you know once upon a time one Corsican had captured Moscow but he came to a bad end. :) Speedhump
Yes, I already told you myself that one country alone did not and could not defeat the Third Reich. Red Chief
It’s because one Londoner waste his holyday in speaking with that bad Russian about dead bodies instead of going to the beach and flirt with some good-looking tall Asian girl.
Speedy, have a break. Have a nice weekend! :) Speedhump
I certainly can multitask... :P
Enjoy your weekend too. Red Chief
Here we go again. My citation didn’t confirm any word of your statement. Of cause Russia was able to win with or without you as soon as it had twice superiority in troops and 4:1 in tanks and guns by October 1943. Even if Hitler hadn’t attracted 10% of all his military force to the West in face of very virtual thread it wouldn’t have significantly changed the result of the war.
As for casualties we lost more than 4 millions in the first half a year of the war. After 1943 our military casualties were less than German ones, but Germans were not able to replace neither human nor weapon losses.
Actually the war was lost at the beginning of 1942 by Hitler. Even Stalingrand, in spite of all that noise around, didn’t really have big strategic value. It was only a bait for further encircling enormous quantity of German troops.

It looked like Hitler didn’t know what to do when the Blitzkrieg got bogged down.
Why did he attack Russia I can’t understand? Of cause he underestimated Russia, as another Western powers did with that “one rifle for 3 men”.
Probably he underestimate Joseph Stalin, as you, Speedy, do now. Mr. Joe was definitely not a talented general. It wasn’t his duty. Under his management mostly agricultural country had transformed to industrial one and well prepared to the war for 10 years.
By the way Marshal Zhukov, real military genius, was much more popular than Stalin among Soviet people in the end of the war.
Despite you his biggest enemy Sir Churchill estimated Stalin very high Bora Bora Are you two at war?? ON and ON and ON. Enuf already. Red Chief
Boring Bora is trying to attract some attention to own person.
Well. Find a small wheel on the top of your mouse. Scroll it down please and don’t interfere in a serious conversation you don’t have any knowledge about.
Rush to the kitchen – something is getting burnt there. Bora Bora There you go, as usual, with your personal attacks. Nothing I know about? You are just trying do a one-up as usual. I guess you can't read this as you are in the kitchen where your brew of wood alcohol was burning. Or is the cabbage stew that you are going to live off for the week? Ignorant Red Commie. :jerk: RobbyG It shows to be a battle of the oldies on WWII knowledge. I'm enjoying the viewpoints. Continue men. One, two march :lol: Red Chief Bora, to be frank I don't understand your attack on me. This tread is about specific arogant English view on WWII. I inserted a collage from a folder of a documantary, I had just bougt. Somebody, who are not familiar with the war, could understand that Churchill won both Germans and Russians. By the way there are no faces neithe Rusvelt nor Eisenhauer on this collage. Bora Bora
RC: As you can see my initial comment was very general. Then you come back with your comment which was directed to me. Can you figure out why I REACTED? Oh, wait, my mistake - that's you demonstrating your sense of humor (or lack thereof). Speedhump
Your view is always one-sided, it is not just UK historians who are angry that Putin is trying to get Russia to believe that they won the war singlehanded. It belittles the parts all other countries played, which is shameful and insulting, and it is purely for political ends. Every damn war film the US make shows them winning the war singlehanded too.
You deny that every country likes to read about or watch their own part in the war, yet crow because your smallbrained but arrogant (for sure) Putin is now doing the same, and you bring up a picture of some cheap DVD (that you don't even name and that is probably little use historically) as though it is significant and proves something.
By the way, you didn't even mention the point that Stalin is portrayed alongside Hitler with a snarling face, insinuating that he was an enemy, whereas during the war he was an uneasy ally (which broke up as soon as the war finished, for good reason). So the DVD you found somewhere and keep banging on about is of no use at all in a sensible discussion. Shame on you!
Without the massive input of US transport (brought by UK naval convoys) your troops would have been fighting against an enemy who was able to mobilise every part of their army (including supply chain logistics) more quickly. In such circumstances weight of numbers can mean very little, especially in deep winter, which you would know if you ever really had examined military tactics. So the fact that you had more men/weapons probably would have counted for nothing as they would be without ammunition, food, everything, due to the Russian army being wholly supplied by horse and cart! :)
And you know very well how impotant morale is to troops, if both Stalingrad and Moscow had fallen ussian soldiers would have been totaly demoralised, their fighting spirit would have been crushed. Do you know how demoralised troops fight? Don't you know how to incude these factors in your thinking?
Read some accounts from real soldiers about these things and how they work.
Come on, try to look at a bigger picture than you see so far. All you are doing so far is counting heads and saying that everyone else is arrogant apart from Russia, it's childish. Speedhump
Red Chief, this is quite correct. Bora made a general comment about our discussion which I thought did not warrant anyone making personal comments. It was easily ignorable (I managed to do it).
But if you want to fight on two fronts then go ahead :D Speedhump
You'll be the first to get a stick grenage up the jacksie when the Red Army roll over Europe as they seem to think they can do in the future...then don't come crawling to me, UK doesn't have tuppence to rub together nowadays, but we are an island of savages, as everyone knows, so Ivan better have his flak jacket on..... :D Speedhump Dubai Knight...was it you changed the thread title??? I don't think the Chief will like being Der Fuehrer.... :D :D RobbyG
:lol: :D :lol: Wonderful.
I'm looking forward to 'something' up my jacksie :wink:
Never gonna make it to Europe. The Red Army has a birth issue, they will not starve with all the agricultural, but a few properly placed bombs and there is not a soul left to support Mother Russia anylonger :D Bora Bora
Why wait? I'll hold him down and you.....well you know... the stick grenade....... Speedhump
What??? :O
For some reason I thought you were the ultimate homophobe and/or uncomfortable with homosexual style comments, did I get you all wrong?
By the way, you weren't with David Carradine when he croaked on Wednesday were you? :twisted: :lol: :shock: Red Chief
It's that half-educated student. I am not quite sure that he knows who Stalin was. I guess he has a mental disease.
Which normal guy could change any American University to a local one?
Speedy, why do you add Mr. Putin in that thread? He is a few years older than me. Moreover the most time of his presidency I worked abroad. How could he influence on me?
I noticed that when you didn’t have facts you start groundless allusions. Grow up! RobbyG
I'm have homophobe tendencies fo' sho' !!
But today, I'm feeling randy :lol:
Something must be wrong with me :D Speedhump
You read home newpapers didn't you, or did you suddenly ignore your home politics because you were on foreign soil? Putin is a flag waver, a propagandist, an aggressor, not a diplomat. f I know it then you know it. He just reminds me of someone here....
Ir's you that needs to grow up my friend, you constantly bring the British Empire into any thread when you have no sensible comment to make. And if anyone else mentions it you jump naked into the bathwater without even testing the temperature. It is crystal clear that you are embarrassed that your huge country has so far never managed to do anything than trample a few small poor Eastern European countries when you and the whole world knows that Russia has always wanted some bigger part of the world but never had the ability to take it. Now it's too late as there is no current age of empire building.. Red Chief
I haven't read any Russian newspaper for at least 15 years. I watches only some Russian movies by Russian TV. I rarely live in Russia and don't support him in many questions. All I wrote here I knew 10 years before President Putin.
We were talking about WWII in this thread, right? Why do you always jump, as a prostitute, when you have no sensible arguments or proven facts on the theme of appropriate thread? Speedhump
All I'll say is 'make sure you point that damn thing somewhere else....' :D RobbyG
Don't worry, if you think hard enough, you know I'm talking about that cone I'm trying to dump... :D
Boy its a sturdy bastard today. I named him Randy for it. ;)
Pass me the paper...I ran out a minute ago :lol: Speedhump :D Gross but effective... ;) Misery Called Life
No, It waz moi... U like the new title?The comparison with Hitler was deliberate...Godwin's Law!
Certainly got the desired response from Red Chief. :lol:

:lol:
Incoherence at it's very best!
Atleast now we know what your stand on Georgia is. Speedhump Haha, Godwin's Law, I had to look it up. Great stuff :D Dont you know, every good Russian wants to stand on Georgia ;) Red Chief
I guess Alaska is a bigger issue in Russia now, but I would prefer warm Atalanta to freezing Anchorage though. Speedhump Yes I see Alaska coming on the radar slowly. Any views? Also as a side comment, I think it's well in range of N.Korea potential atomic warheads now.



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