Stylinexpat
The nationalities of the criminals had a lot to do with how they were sentenced. I bet they will be out in a few months time if they don't get pardoned after sentencing. Justice here was not served, feel sorry for the poor visitor visiting Dubai. Wonder how they would have sentenced a few foreign men had this happened to a local girl? I bet you anything they would not have gotten two years :roll:
jag
Justice is seriously lacking here. A gang of rapists get two years??? WTF is that? No doubt the nationalities came into play, and I doubt expat rapists would be given this light sentence. I feel for the victim, and this place really can be so unjust. :x
From 7 Days:
'I know what she's going through'
Friday, 24 February 2006
The gang rape of a young woman in Dubai, and two-year jail terms for the attackers, have sparked outrage. Here, another victim of gang rape recounts her tale of horror.
Sara trembles at the thought of driving through the desert and has a fear of wide open spaces. Today she’s only beginning to get her life back on track after being gang raped in a desert two years ago.
She says: “When I heard about the gang rape in Dubai, I felt physically sick and the memories of being attacked myself came flooding back. “I have this recurring nightmare of walking into a room and bumping into my attackers.
In my mind they’re standing there, smirking and staring at me. I know it sounds crazy, as I left my home country to start a new life, but my attackers are always haunting me.”
Sara (not her real name) speaks in a subdued voice. She moved to Dubai two years ago to start a new life after being raped in a remote region of another Gulf state after they lured her into the desert under the pretence of taking her to meet a potential employer.
Luckily when Sara, 22, moved to Dubai, she fell into safe hands. Late one night, Sara’s kind-hearted boss stumbled on her sobbing over her desk. Sara told her boss her story and is now being supported and helped through her trauma by staff at City of Hope, a Dubai-based women’s shelter.
But the story this week of a 23-year-old woman raped by six men – two of whom were acquitted on grounds of insufficient evidence – has touched a raw nerve in Sara.
She says: “I can remember the day of my attack as clearly as if it had been yesterday. I know it was naïve of me to get in a car with a man but he knew my brother. I only became suspicious when he stopped to pick up three other men.
“Ten minutes later they pulled up where the one sitting beside me covered my mouth and dragged me into some bushes were I was beaten and sexually assaulted.
“Helpless and entirely at my assailant’s mercy, I tried to appeal to his humanity, telling him I was a virgin. But he called me a whore and slapped my face.
“As the sexual assault began, I instinctively fought back, which enraged my attacker so much that he strangled me until I fell into a semi-conscious state. They took it in turns raping me.
“At the time, I thought this wasn’t really happening to me. It was a nightmare and I’d soon wake up. The last thing I remember was one of them slapping my face, calling me a slut.
“I later woke up in a local hospital bed where I was repeatedly told how lucky I was to be alive. “At the time I did not know how trauma not only haunts the conscious and unconscious mind, but remains in every nerve in the body.
When “I heard about the girl gang raped in Dubai my heart started racing and I felt my skin crawling, just by thinking of her being rounded on by six beasts. “But it’s the unimaginably painful aftermath of violence that is the worst to come.
For the first several months after my attack, I frequently contemplated suicide. I felt my life had been ruined. I lost interest in life and myself. I would barely leave the home and when I did, I’d cower in the presence of men.
Even if I man even as much as glanced at me, I’d feel my skin crawl with disgust. “I was reluctant to tell anyone what had happened. I was motivated in part by shame and in part by secrecy and self-blame.
I didn’t want to bring dishonour to my family. “I also thought it was my fault for being so stupid to get in a man’s car.
“Over time, I put on weight and stopped caring for myself. I hated those men for ruining my life. But I hated them even more for getting away with their crime and fearing that they might strike again.
“When I turned 22 I couldn’t believe how old I felt. In knew something had to budge so when I met up with a friend who told me about a job in Dubai, I decided to take the chance.
“Having to strike out on my own, made me feel that I was reclaiming some sense of control over my life. But I also went through something of a breakdown. I couldn’t accept that my life was getting back on track again. I kept expecting something bad to happen.
“If someone asks me if I’m recovered, if they mean am I back to where I was before the attack, then the answer is no - “I can never be. I am not the same wide-eyed 20-year-old – I left her in the desert – I had to in order to survive.
But if recovery means dealing with my past and thinking of myself as a survivor not a victim – even if that means reliving the pain whenever I hear of other gang rape survivors – then, yes, then I’ve recovered.”
* SPEAK OUT
Sharla Musabih, founder of City of Hope, believes the gang rape of the British woman is only the tip of the iceberg. She says: “I know many Eastern women who never report that they’ve been raped. They keep it a secret for fear of shame.
“I have met prostitutes, who have been raped and abused. They, too, rarely go to the police, convinced that they might deserve the attack, they won’t be believed or that it’s an occupational hazzard.”
What happens when someone is raped? The person reacts with a grief and trauma. With this reaction comes fear, flashbacks, nightmares, emotional numbing, avoidance of any reminders of the traumatic event, depression, withdrawal and isolation, sadness and anger.
Email City of Hope at
G
I'm absolutely disgusted at reading this!! This kind of thing really tarnishes the image of Dubai - I feel terrible for the girl involved and angry at the inadequecy of a 2 year sentence!!
:evil:
jag
- G wrote:
I'm absolutely disgusted at reading this!! This kind of thing really tarnishes the image of Dubai - I feel terrible for the girl involved and angry at the inadequecy of a 2 year sentence!!
:evil:
Yea, its like they're saying, sure go ahead and gang rape, all you'll do is a measly two years.. if you are caught.. disgusting.
onetickin
I thought murder and rape were punishable by execution under Sharia law?
Chocoholic
Don't forget two of the guys got off because of lack of evidence.
Two years is a disgraceful sentence, it certainly won't make up for the lifetime of suffering the poor girl will go through.
They should have been castrated!
The womans laywer is taking it to the appeal court to push for a tougher sentence, they should get life!
It was a cowardly pre-meditated act with two gangs working together, what kind of sickos do that? Ones that don't belong in society - that's for sure.
GAB
Hey, no different to home. Let's face it paedophiles and rapists at home get out pretty quickly with "good behaviour"-it's definitely not right though.
Chocoholic
The thing that makes it really sad though GAB, is that Dubai and the UAE in general was always seen as a safe haven. But crime in all sectors is on the increase.
With such pathetic sentences what kind of message is it sending to people? That it's OK to commit this kind of crime. The stupid thing is, if it had been committed by expats, they would have thrown the book at them, kept them in prison for years then deported them. But it seems the same horrific crime doesn't warrant such a harsh punishment if you're of certain nationalities.
GAB
I agree with you.
esthers
2 year term is not the posibble way maybe a much higher kind of sentence maybe life sentence
1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
Liban
Under Sharia law, rape is punishible by being whipped. Not killed, nor castrated as far as I know.
In Dubai, if you are non-Muslim you will not be tried under Sharia law.
Now, as for the sentence, it does seem lax. But to be the devil's advocate here, judges are where they are for a reason. If a judge beleives there to be insufficient evidence to support a case, he has to act upon it. Like it or not... :oops:
fayz
anyone who rapes should be castrated,
XRW-147
How are rapists treated by fellow in-mates here? Do they themselves get raped and abused like they do in American prisons?
U a E s A i N t
Very sad .... & this is what i hate in the new Dubai ... the Crime rate !
last week a Local girl got rapped & murdered by the framer who works in the house .... She was 18 & just got married.
The reason was the owner of the house shouted at the worker for doing something wrong (who was the young husband) so the guy took revenge ...
the worker walked in the house with a knife & did what he thought was right ...and ran away !
But the police arrested him after they found skin pieces under her nails !
Her husband hearing the news went into a comma & the girl never lived to see more of her honeymoon
jag
- XRW-147 wrote:
How are rapists treated by fellow in-mates here? Do they themselves get raped and abused like they do in American prisons?
Not sure about locals but expats would probably be abused badly in prison... :shock:
boostah
i would not be suprised if a lot of rape cases are not genuine, but also a lot are not reported but if thats true they deserve a much more severe punishment i dont think torture is the answer, and im not sure about just being in jail but years of hard labour and community service under scrutiny of bodgaurds is more productive, rather then sitting round swapping crime stories and planning escapes.....yet again it also seems that that little "racism" raises its head again as they would probably want to make more of an example if it had have been expats, to show the world, but this story wouldnt make it past this forum really, so it dosnt matter as much....I guess when it does happen and it probably will we can only refer to the unfairness...Lets Hope Dubai keeps its safe name.
Jeevan
I think rape shud be punishable by death penalty. A couple of years back a person who raped a girl was sentenced to be hanged till death. This was the first death sentence in India where death penalty was used. I hope they continue on it or atleast give them a life term.
But i am really surprised the culprits got away with just a two year sentence.
Cant the masses do something about it?
Cheers,
Jerry
GAB
Quote:
- i would not be suprised if a lot of rape cases are not genuine
That is an odd comment.
Chocoholic
Yes it is, and certainly I could never imagine why anyone would make up something so horrific.
I suspect it's more the other way around, that most rapes or gang rapes go unreported for various reasons, like the shame some women from certain backgrounds feel it would bring to them or their family. This is truly tragic as any crime such as this needs to have those responsible punished.
boostah
it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.
ross392
how can u possibly live a normal life, not just rape but gang-raped in a country which has ultra conservative laws of which i guess is not applicable to its own people.. a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here? can we do something about it or not?
hetherjw
sadly I think there is little we can do about the sentence in this case. 2 years is all these guys are going to get.
We can keep this "top of mind" and as a cautionary tale. Seriously not in a "blame the victim" way we can all take note that this woman got into a car with a bunch of strangers. No matter how safe we may all feel with the low crime rate expats who come to the city should be warned to maintain their own safety... obviously the courts are not here for Us.
GAB
Quote:
- it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.
BS :roll:
kanelli
Maybe the guys should serve 2 years, but also be punished by gang rape :) Then they would know how it feels to be violated and abused.
boostah, it is rare for women to cry wolf about rape. Unfortunately, there are always some men who bring up the fact that a tiny percentage of women make false claims of rape every time people discuss a rape incident.
Did some of you read the article in 7 Days about another woman who told her story of gang rape in a neighbouring country? She got into the car with only one guy who was a friend of her brother, and the reason she did so was to go and meet someone about a job opportunity. Then this guy stopped and picked up more of his friends, which did make her suspicious. Unfortunately, she didn't get out of the car and trusted her brother's friend. She ended up being raped and assaulted.
Men should be taught to be responsible for their own behaviour and they should face serious consequences when they commit violent crimes against women. I get tired of the excuses that a woman asks for it when she dresses in a way that attracts men, or has a history of sleeping with other men, or simply because she was in the presence of other men without female friends or male relatives around. Sexual assaults are about violence, dominance, and degredation - not about sexual gratification, so the men are the root problem, not the women.
GAB
Totally agree K!! :)
kanelli
Admin, can we please get rid of the "fun" filter whenever the word s.e.x or s.e.x.u.a.l is mentioned? Very annoying.
GAB
:lol: And I agree with you there too K!! I re-read my posts and they make even less sense than they normally do!! :lol: It is very disturbing!! :lol:
U a E s A i N t
- ross392 wrote:
how can u possibly live a normal life, not just rape but gang-raped in a country which has ultra conservative laws of which i guess is not applicable to its own people.. a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here? can we do something about it or not?
So contradicting ... when we apply the Sharia law you chant the word "NO HUMAN RIGHT"
When we apply and international law you call it Conservative !
And What's up with the Locals being attacked in this forum !
The laws are laws ... Local or expat ...
People who think this country is corrupt & are not happy with the rules and regulations or the system (Should go back where they came from instead of quoting "a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here? )
You will see good & bad where ever you go ?
Chocoholic
Because UAESAINT the offenders in this case all happned to be locals and that's why everyone thinks they're being given a 'light' sentence. If it had be a gang of other nationalities, they would have been severely punished, that's what's so wring about the whole thing.
U a E s A i N t
- Chocoholic wrote:
Because UAESAINT the offenders in this case all happned to be locals and that's why everyone thinks they're being given a 'light' sentence. If it had be a gang of other nationalities, they would have been severely punished, that's what's so wring about the whole thing.
I am sure that there was a strong reason for the Judge to give the Light sentence .. Not enough supporting Evidence/ Underage convicts / other Legal issues ....
If this happened to a local girl ... which was the case so many times .. this subject would not have come up in this forum !
When things go to court .. it depends how much your lawyer is charging you ... is he Good or Bad ... Are you Guilty or Not ... It all Depends how much you have to pay the lawyer $$$
I guess most of you Know what happened to O J Simpson .. and that was the United states the land of the free !
So before ppl point fingers at locals & the system in the UAE ... think & have a look around .. get a round trip ticket to another GCC country for a week ... come back and thank god you choose Dubai 8)
kanelli
- U a E s A i N t wrote:
- Chocoholic wrote:
Because UAESAINT the offenders in this case all happned to be locals and that's why everyone thinks they're being given a 'light' sentence. If it had be a gang of other nationalities, they would have been severely punished, that's what's so wring about the whole thing.
I am sure that there was a strong reason for the Judge to give the Light sentence .. Not enough supporting Evidence/ Underage convicts / other Legal issues ....
If this happened to a local girl ... which was the case so many times .. this subject would not have come up in this forum !
When things go to court .. it depends how much your lawyer is charging you ... is he Good or Bad ... Are you Guilty or Not ... It all Depends how much you have to pay the lawyer $$$
I guess most of you Know what happened to O J Simpson .. and that was the United states the land of the free !
So before ppl point fingers at locals & the system in the UAE ... think & have a look around .. get a round trip ticket to another GCC country for a week ... come back and thank god you choose Dubai 8)
UAESAINT I can't believe that you would say that the topic of a light sentence for rape wouldn't be brought up here if it was a local girl that was affected. That is really uncalled for and only shows your contempt for the expats posting here.
U a E s A i N t
[quote="kanelli]
UAESAINT I can't believe that you would say that the topic of a light sentence for rape wouldn't be brought up here if it was a local girl that was affected. That is really uncalled for and only shows your contempt for the expats posting here.
Well .... i am new to this forum ... looking around here and there ... I do respect ppl's opinion ... and i have nothing against that ...
But until someone posted ""a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here?"
That obviously shows that only expats should be sad & the rest of the locals are A-- Holes ..
I never agreed with the sentence ... we did not see the trail to judge ... so pointing fingers at a country that has given all an opportunity to live in peace ... :(
No hard feelings guyz ..... but thats how i am .. i have an allergy from racists
kanelli
- U a E s A i N t wrote:
Well .... i am new to this forum ... looking around here and there ... I do respect ppl's opinion ... and i have nothing against that ...
But until someone posted ""a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here?"
That obviously shows that only expats should be sad & the rest of the locals are A-- Holes ..
I never agreed with the sentence ... we did not see the trail to judge ... so pointing fingers at a country that has given all an opportunity to live in peace ... :(
No hard feelings guyz ..... but thats how i am .. i have an allergy from racists
You've just dug yourself in deeper with this post. :shock:
MaaaD
uaesaint this thread does involve many issues which include racism, s3xism, and also different cultural prespective on issues. But your reaction was definitely not cool, just telling people to go home and all that is so out of fashion (its not the 90s anymore ;) ... Trust alot of expats have made Dubai home and love it just as much as you do , and any criticizim comes from this love and wanting it to be a better place. Those same expats if they where home would be criticizing the system and writing to papers and bitching on forums. Its how humans are.
Now in this part of the world we have this bad habit of just praising things and never bringing up the dirt. Sheikh Mo himself acknoweldged that "self censorship" issue and asked that it be stopped. A free thinking and opininanted peoples is the only way if this country is to move forward.
Please dont take any comments personally, dont defend things just coz you feel like you have to be on the other side .. just listen to other's people's opinions and state your own .. agree to disagree no one is preaching here everyone is just speaking out their mind !
peace
kanelli
MaaaD, that was a great post.
G
Quote:
- am sure that there was a strong reason for the Judge to give the Light sentence .. Not enough supporting Evidence/ Underage convicts / other Legal issues ....
Just a note on this.....the fact that they recieved 2 years for rape means that the judge is convinced that an offence occured, and hence the sentence is indeed lenient.
If he had simply let them off for lack of evidence then you would be correct, and this would not be an issue, BUT for somebody to be convicted in a court of law for the offence of rape, and then to be given only 2 years smells very suspicious to me
Chocoholic
Also the comment about if it had happened to a local girl. If this happened the chances of the offense being reported in the first place would be slim, because of obvious reasons.
UAESAINT, we're not saying anything against nationals, but there's been a long standing history where locals get off lightly for many things, like driving offenses etc, if a cop sees blacked out windows, he ain't touching it! Thankfully though this is starting to change and everyone is being treated the same.
The point is, this was a horrific, pre-meditated attack and the offenders deserve a harsh punishment.
For example a man in the UK just got convited of raping his 12 year old stepdaught - sentence 50 years!
U a E s A i N t
Thanx guyz ... i dont think taking this subject another step would solve anything...... its a matter of an opinion, i hope i did not offend anyone
lets enjoy the nice weather so far ... another month to go before we start boiling
boostah
- GAB wrote:
Quote:
- it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.
BS :roll:
With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations. [False rape allegations are reported in similar numbers at college campuses; approximately 50% of rape charges are admitted to be false by the accuser.]
http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&q=false+rape+allegations&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8
jag
- MaaaD wrote:
uaesaint this thread does involve many issues which include racism, s3xism, and also different cultural prespective on issues. But your reaction was definitely not cool, just telling people to go home and all that is so out of fashion (its not the 90s anymore ;) ... Trust alot of expats have made Dubai home and love it just as much as you do , and any criticizim comes from this love and wanting it to be a better place. Those same expats if they where home would be criticizing the system and writing to papers and bitching on forums. Its how humans are.
Now in this part of the world we have this bad habit of just praising things and never bringing up the dirt. Sheikh Mo himself acknoweldged that "self censorship" issue and asked that it be stopped. A free thinking and opininanted peoples is the only way if this country is to move forward.
Please dont take any comments personally, dont defend things just coz you feel like you have to be on the other side .. just listen to other's people's opinions and state your own .. agree to disagree no one is preaching here everyone is just speaking out their mind !
peace
A well thought out and excellent post mate. Unlike another poster here. And the point that other poster fails to comprehend is that the law is biased here, plain and simple. The law should see everyone equally be it expat or national. That is the only way forward. And for someone to just suggest pack you bags and leave, well, letse see how they feel about that statement when they are on the receiving end.
kanelli
- boostah wrote:
- GAB wrote:
Quote:
- it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.
BS :roll:
With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations. [False rape allegations are reported in similar numbers at college campuses; approximately 50% of rape charges are admitted to be false by the accuser.]
http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&q=false+rape+allegations&tab=wn&ie=
UTF-8
The article is not found at that link.
According to the stats, 41% of the reported 109 cases were false. What about the other women who didn't report their rapes? That would certainly reduce the percentage if those were factored in. According to many studies, on average only about 20% of rapes are ever reported.
From my experience with friends who have been raped or molested - it is the real deal. I don't know any women personally who have ever lied about being raped, but I don't deny that some women will do it.
GAB
boostah- Ok let's get serious. Talk about cases that make it to court with hard evidence- scientific evidence. It seems to me that you are implying a soft sentence is OK because they could be wrong :roll: Sorry- no logic in that for me.
terranova
well, i see it as a black and white issue. there's no shades of grey inbetween. it's like asking if someone is pregnant.. either they are or they're not.. there's no "sort of' pregnant.
in the same way either the guys raped the girl, or they didn't.
now if they didn't why are they getting a 2 year sentence? and if they did, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the sharia law.
boostah
Did i ever say they deserved a soft scentence? I siad if its true they deserve a lot worse...how could anyone ever say such a crime is ok, if you worked in a rape crises centre you would know that false rape alegations happen all the time and i gave the google link to news so you could see cases that are currently going to court, but without evidence you cannot convict the rapist nor the rapee, which is why reporting it sooner is always better, yes there are untold ammounts of cases that are not reported but if you are saying that false rape allegations simply do not happen you are mistaken, and thats all im saying it does actually happen and more often then you might think, now i dont think that is a good thing any more than you do, and without any evidence its one word against another which is why they guys probably got a soft scentence in the first place. you took one of my comments and made it a large issue, the thing is the comment is correct it does go on...thats why it is so important to report the crime as early as possible.
kanelli
boostah, you still don't get it. Three or four of us have pointed out errors in logic in your arguments, and we have also agreed with you on a few points that you still wish to argue about for some reason. What more can be added to this conversation?
boostah
eh hello you said yourself you dont deny that some women do it and i reserve the right to defend my opinion,i see its nice ganging up on someone alright, and by the way its only two of you and gab that had somthing to say about my comment, which if you would like to remind me of the errors i would be happily discuss with you but there isnt any your report that says 20% are unreported and mine that 40% are FRA's are simply that reports...so go argue with them not me. I see that its nice ganging up on someone alright...hellooo fight club transportter over here please....
terranova
^ touchy!
i was just commenting in general about my view on the sentence. it has no reference at all to your comments
boostah
terranova? i dont recall you making any comment at all ... ??? :arrow: :roll:
GAB
Don't get your knickers in a knot. Any half-wit can produce stats (which by the way you will know are skewed and ultimately flawed depending on the sample size and overall population-don't remind me of this when I use stats to back up one of my opinions!! :lol: ) by doing a google search-I'll produce some countering your claim and then you can come back with a few more sources to support your comments-I really don't want to jump on that carousel. I think what is simply and plainly being said that there are many cases of rape that are not reported, it is "estimated" that it is a certain percentage-as a woman I would say the estimate is conservative and the reasons for failing to report such crimes would be numerous and include retribution, embarassment, stigma, religious reasons etc It has been said by you that rapes are misreported, I quote " it happens a lot"-bad, bad choice of words in my opinion. I agree it happens, but alot compared to the entire picture??????I don't think so. The entire picture involves cases actually proved beyond a reasonable doubt, cases that are rape but evidence has been lacking, false reports and those that are not reported-we should all take rape seriously. Unfortunately rape involves trauma and because a person feels violated their natural instinct is to wash away the "dirt"-there goes your best evidence! I find the sentence particularly light in regard to the crime committed-you do that amount of time in Singapore for purse snatching-no BS!! :shock: Oh, BTW I am not having a go at you, just debating buddy!! Cheers!!
boostah
thats kewl, yeah ok a lot may be an overstatement but a lot more then most people think, certainly if 50% is true it is a lot but even in the Irish commision on handling rape cases it is stipulated quite clearly, but im not going down that road again but even the 20% they say are unreported I would even say that its a lot more than that so, es if you are doing the sums it certainly balances in favour of serious legitimate cases, unfortunatley it is the case that they are traumatised afterwards, ofcourse you would be but it is important to get that message out there the the sooner the better, and i highly agree every case should be taken very seriously. now lets go get a drink... :wink:
kanelli
Ed, once again you aren't getting it. We agreed that yes, SOME women make false claims. It was your original assertion that MANY women lie about rape - THAT is what we disagree with.
You are not paying attention to detail. Approximately 20% of rapes ARE reported, that means 80% are UNREPORTED. 80% is a lot of unreported rapes, which means your stats that 41% of rapes are false claims is in fact not a good stat to say that the majority of women cry wolf about rape. What you can say with those stats is, "One study found that 41% of REPORTED rapes were false claims." My counter to you was that many studies have found that approximately 80% of rapes go unreported, which certainly means your stats need to be viewed in a new light, don't you think? GAB is correct about how stats can be used, but still, they tend to lend more credibility to a claim than if you just give an opinion.
Your other piece of false logic is that the men in this case who are sentenced to 2 years only got two years because the judge isn't sure if they really did it. That makes no sense. Either there was enough evidence to charge them, or there wasn't. If there wasn't, they'd have been set free.
I'm not a big fan of false logic. If you read the details about this case you'd have seen that the issue was not a woman falsely claiming that a guy she is in love with and who doesn't return her affections raped her. Any time the topic of rape comes up there is always one guy who has to say, "Yeah, well many women lie about it." I'm sure the woman gang raped by those guys would be really comforted to read such an opinion. :roll: You can post what you like, just be adult enough to accept the responses you get.
GAB
Basically your stats on false reports are only using the sample space of reports. Non-reporting would have to take the entire population (an impossible sample space unless you do a census) to be accurate, so using a small sample space for non-reported rapes concluded that approx X% (kanelli stated 80%) of rapes are unreported thus it is a fair and logical assumption that should this investigation go further and include a larger sample space the results would show significantly that many rapes go unreported or using your words "it happens alot". Kanelli is also correct in saying too, in this case, rape was proven-it is the sentence that does not fit the crime, that, in it itself, is another crime against the woman.
boostah
yes certainly if 80% go unreported then the odds are swung as i said to the majority being legitimate cases, i knew it had to be more than 20%. I still dont know what the hard evidence was of this particular case which by the way the way I have not looked into detail at all about. As for me being adult enough about a response, i think ive more than welcomed the debate and stood my ground over what i said was true, and there is still no falsities apart from what i already admited with Gab that "a lot" may be an overstatement considering so much are unreported also but a lot more than people think, is more apt to those who dont think it dosnt happen at all. *orders a guinness*
go on sure say it again "you still dont get it do you"...lol
sniper420
- GAB wrote:
Quote:
- i would not be suprised if a lot of rape cases are not genuine
That is an odd comment.
why is this odd, well some men are victims of flase rape thanks to DNA testing but some woman may have access to his sperm bank... :roll:
GAB
Obviously you agree it's odd.
kanelli
- boostah wrote:
yes certainly if 80% go unreported then the odds are swung as i said to the majority being legitimate cases, i knew it had to be more than 20%. I still dont know what the hard evidence was of this particular case which by the way the way I have not looked into detail at all about. As for me being adult enough about a response, i think ive more than welcomed the debate and stood my ground over what i said was true, and there is still no falsities apart from what i already admited with Gab that "a lot" may be an overstatement considering so much are unreported also but a lot more than people think, is more apt to those who dont think it dosnt happen at all. *orders a guinness*
go on sure say it again "you still dont get it do you"...lol
No, Ed. You seem to be getting it now :)
sniper420
- GAB wrote:
Obviously you agree it's odd.
no I didnt.... :roll:
GAB
Your intelligence level must be at an all time low.
sniper420
- GAB wrote:
Your intelligence level must be at an all time low.
if mine is low then urs must be waaYYYYYYYYYYYYY below the bar... :lol:
GAB
Only if I slipped and fell and cracked my head.
sniper420
- GAB wrote:
Only if I slipped and fell and cracked my head.
well dont worry it's already cracked little more damage wont make much of a difference , u can get a new one in next life........ :lol:
GAB
:lol: You must have psychic powers. Hail ye O, Sniper! Ye are so wise!! :lol:
kanelli
:lol:
:wink: :wink: :wink:
GAB
Oh, Kanelli-it'sh jush not funny!! :lol:
arniegang
sniper hath weally weceived mythical powers
:lol: :lol:
GAB
For once in his life is spot on!! :lol:
SheikhaS
Please try to educate yourselves before always bashing locals on this forum!!!
Its absolutely ridiculous to believe that because the guys were UAE nationals they received a light sentence!!!
Im obviously against the 2 year sentence, it should be more, but please feed your tiny minds with information before making statements that are untrue.
And for all the local bashers i ask you this....."how many locals do you actually know, and im not talking about your work colleagues, Im talking true friends here.Probably none because you either are racist towards them or they cant be bothered to give you the time of day because you are a moaning expat!
Sorry for the rant, but it has to be said!!
:lol:
Stylinexpat
One would hate to e against the locals but there are many things that point negatively towards their direction. Here is one for you. Look at my case at
The guy can't be found and the local law does not allow for locals to have wanted pictures in the local newspapers or on the news or any sot of media. So the guy is as loose as a Dog in the streets of the Emirates while no one but the local authorities knows that he is a wanted person. Why are pictures of Indian people printed in the paper for small crimes and pictures of locals never printed in the papers for big crimes? A crime is a crime no matter who you are. In Islam God did not seperate Inidans or any other Nationals and Say the Emirate Nationals are an exception. Try and see things from our point of view. we come to Dubai with good intentions but reality proves other wise once we encounter situations with the law. Try suing a local, he has no address but a Post Office Box that is closed :roll: Try printing an advert in the paper to try and find a local, immediater rejection
Chocoholic
- SheikhaS wrote:
Please try to educate yourselves before always bashing locals on this forum!!!
Its absolutely ridiculous to believe that because the guys were UAE nationals they received a light sentence!!!
Im obviously against the 2 year sentence, it should be more, but please feed your tiny minds with information before making statements that are untrue.
And for all the local bashers i ask you this....."how many locals do you actually know, and im not talking about your work colleagues, Im talking true friends here.Probably none because you either are racist towards them or they cant be bothered to give you the time of day because you are a moaning expat!
Sorry for the rant, but it has to be said!!
:lol:
Actually I have lots of local friends and all are very nice. But you hear on a regular basis of locals getting off lightly, traffic fines, not getting booked for things, even if in the wrong the other person is to blame. Sorry but what you say is total rubbish, of course they got off lightly because they're local - it happoens every single day! So to say it doesn't you must be blind! No-one is local bashing either - it's a fact!
sniper420
- Stylinexpat wrote:
One would hate to e against the locals but there are many things that point negatively towards their direction. Here is one for you. Look at my case at
The guy can't be found and the local law does not allow for locals to have wanted pictures in the local newspapers or on the news or any sot of media. So the guy is as loose as a Dog in the streets of the Emirates while no one but the local authorities knows that he is a wanted person. Why are pictures of Indian people printed in the paper for small crimes and pictures of locals never printed in the papers for big crimes? A crime is a crime no matter who you are. In Islam God did not seperate Inidans or any other Nationals and Say the Emirate Nationals are an exception. Try and see things from our point of view. we come to Dubai with good intentions but reality proves other wise once we encounter situations with the law. Try suing a local, he has no address but a Post Office Box that is closed :roll: Try printing an advert in the paper to try and find a local, immediater rejection
yeah i did read ur post and site. too bad uAE is still behind in implementing laws protecting expatriates from l0cal con men.
Nucleus
Quote:
- Sorry but what you say is total rubbish
Not totally rubbish... dubai is getting easy on crimes, read this: §ion=theuae&col=
Chocoholic
Fooking hell! That's terrible! Poor child. The guy needs to be crastrated. 5 years is an appalling sentence.
But is it me or does it appear that s-e-x crimes aren't taken very seriously?
fayz
I wonder though Choco if it was a local raping a Pakistani boy would you immediately say "see i told you locals get off easy", kinda proving sheikas point.
The root problem is people are getting off too easy, no matter of race or nationality, castration is appropriate for taking a Child’s innocence, when you get lax on crime, crime increases.
Flip side is there is a small group of locals that do believe they are above the law and another group of expats (arab) who dress in local garb, doing so to play into the facad that all “locals” are rich and untouchable, the assholes I’ve met in Kandoras have all not been UAE people, the Nationals I work with treat me very well and work just as hard as any expat, every group has its bad apples and people should be judged for themselves (easier said than done I know but we should all try to be open)
At the end of the day most people on this board want to see the UAE grow and flourish and want to be proud to call this place home, this is only attainable if we all work together.
My two fils.
XRW-147
Well, that article kinda sticks it right up the "locals get off easier" idealists (no pun intended) :roll: , considering it was a local boy that was violated.
Stylinexpat
- Nucleus wrote:
Quote:
- Sorry but what you say is total rubbish
Not totally rubbish... dubai is getting easy on crimes, read this: §ion=theuae&col=
A British ( If I remember correctly ) lady gets [color=red]GANG RAPED [/color]by locals and the locals get 2 years jail time. A local boy gets molested and the Pakistanian National gets 5 Years in Jail :roll: While both crimes are unethical and need to be punished. Honestly speaking here, who got raped here and got off with less then half of the jail time? Also, one person's actions at one time are different then 5-7 people's actions combined. 5-7 people shows support or commitment towards the crime while one could have been out of whack at the time. Both should be punished but getting off with less then half of the others' punishment for a self commited crime compared to a united crime is either questionable or shows some sort of leniency towards the local criminals. Here it is called a partial pardon.
XRW-147
You've captured my point well in that analogy, it pales in comparison and it really portrays the image that this place is not at all serious about crimes of such nature.
sniper420
- fayz wrote:
I wonder though Choco if it was a local raping a Pakistani boy would you immediately say "see i told you locals get off easy", kinda proving sheikas point.
The root problem is people are getting off too easy, no matter of race or nationality, castration is appropriate for taking a Child’s innocence, when you get lax on crime, crime increases.
Flip side is there is a small group of locals that do believe they are above the law and another group of expats (arab) who dress in local garb, doing so to play into the facad that all “locals” are rich and untouchable, the assholes I’ve met in Kandoras have all not been UAE people, the Nationals I work with treat me very well and work just as hard as any expat, every group has its bad apples and people should be judged for themselves (easier said than done I know but we should all try to be open)
At the end of the day most people on this board want to see the UAE grow and flourish and want to be proud to call this place home, this is only attainable if we all work together.
My two fils.
well i do agree with harsh law ...........but castration! damn!......h-h-h0w c-c-can 0ne live w-w-w-without the p-p-p-prrrrrrreecious! :roll:
SheikhaS
Ok ok .this is gonna go on forever............
maybe the number one thing we could learn from this story is.......
Dont go home with strangers.
arniegang
good advice SS
sniper420
- SheikhaS wrote:
Ok ok .this is gonna go on forever............
maybe the number one thing we could learn from this story is.......
Dont go home with strangers.
....and old men. :lol: very good advice
GoodBai
- SheikhaS wrote:
Ok ok .this is gonna go on forever............
maybe the number one thing we could learn from this story is.......
Dont go home with strangers.
I think this implies there was some kind of fault on the victim's part... and that's what she was, the VICTIM of an appalling crime. Rape is rape whether the victim got into a car or whether it's someone who goes back for coffee and then says no. That she accepted help and a lift makes no difference at all. It doesn't give these despicable people the right to attack her. They perpetrated a terrible crime on this woman and the legal system should have thrown away the key after locking them up.
Let's just get away from the ludicrous comments that you sometimes see afer rape cases, like: "Oh well she was wearing a short skirt" or "Well, she had been drinking" or "She should never have accepted a lift". There's no excuse, it's a terrible crime and the rapists should be hit with the full force of the law whether they are nationals or expats.